The Dresden Files - Early Days Mafia (Bastard) - Over

[Thor665]

Greetings gang, looks like we are in the middle of a derp vote debate.

I'll be honest - I probably won't read jack. Still, I'll probably be game to ask for an extension so we can have a slightly less derptastic lynch consensus though.

Also, I need someone to say that I should sheep them so later I can blame them if who we lynch flips town, and who I will pretend doesn't exist and that I am awesome if the person flips scum.

Also, knee-jerk reaction - GreyICE as a Day lynch...really? I look forward to being told how awesome this case is.

[Thor665]

Thor, I want you to read the first three pages and tell me what you think of ICEninja, GreyICE, and ckd.

Meh, okay, let's skim it;

I think Curious Karma Dog looks town.
ICEninja wagon was awesome.
I actually agree with Zdenek that Jason looks scummy.
I'm actually calling Pidgey scummy for his self-censorship of Smurf.

I think CKD looks town and both the ICE's look scummy.

Id rather he read the full game and then gave his opinions of people, instead of basing it on 3 pages alone.

Trololololol.
Hold your breath, I'll get to that any century now.

Big wall o' points

Hurm.

1. I like this as a tell.
2. I always appreciate flattery...

@Sixty - do you have examples supporting your take on GreyICE's meta here? That feels like such a home run tell I'm almost of a mind to disregard it because it feels too solid, y'know?

3. Feels kinda like #1 again, but I do like that as a tell.

Hmm green goodposting. That's a good catch regarding CKD's going through a lot of trouble to explain why an alcohol induced action is normal for him.

I rather like this posting in general. I agree with it and would extend the read towards ICEninja (quick, someone can now extend it to me and soon we'll all be town!)

Shmugen gets townpoints for that post too ^

I'm actually getting a scum vibe on that waste of space.

Unvote: Kortul
Vote: GreyICE

Let's do this for laughs. Baaaah!

Also, I asked for the extension, but, y'know, we don't need to lurk-a-derp till deadline, but NOW is the time to start moving votes and making a counter wagon if you want it.

Zdenek, Jason, and Klick are my immediate callouts for failing at life.

[Thor665]

You would

also

benefit from reading our posts in isolation.

I have, I see no actual case from you on Gray...

Just rambling at him on a few things.

What's your case on ABR and how come you didn't ask me to sheep you since that wagon *desperately* needs the sort of sexy and manly energy I bring to a wagon?

[Thor665]

i got thor to read

Now you need to justify that exercise and do something with my responses.

Otherwise I'll call you obv. scum and manage to shift all the votes to you. Because it would not be hard to do methinks.

@ICEninja - that is awesome that this is the point of my wall you wish to discuss...I still have a scum read on you.

[Thor665]

Good job, Zdenek, you are called out for failing and then at least try to fail less. You win a cookie.

How did I attempt to discredit you? Tell me that and I'll self vote.
Hint: pointing out that you were sitting on a dead end wagon is true - so if that is discrediting to you...well, you better justify why you were doing something so useless.

[Thor665]

Yep - please tell me what you all had in common.

Take a while, it's a deep question.

[Thor665]

Yep - please tell me what you all had in common.

Take a while, it's a deep question.

Do you think that Stefan is town?

I have no read on him at all, and that is meaningless to the point even if I did.

@ICEninja - that is awesome that this is the point of my wall you wish to discuss...I still have a scum read on you.

I thoroughly agree with everything you said, aside from calling me scummy. What else needed discussion?

[Thor665]

@Klick - still failing.

@Pidgey
@Sword

Why should I give two figs about your wagon?

@Anyone voting CKD - he looks town, what is this gak?

[Thor665]

If you have VERY compelling reasons why neither CKD or GreyICE should be lynched, either make them very clear or move your Smurf vote.

I'd also like to note that Thor thinks CKD is town and Grey is decently likely scum, so...y'know.

I'm waiting for Thor to respond before I vote someone.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that even you are capable of figuring out that either my answer will be sarcasm about being scum or snark about being town.
So derp reason to not vote is derp and not voting.

[Thor665]

I hear Stefan talking, but I'm generally left with no idea what he's saying.
If Grey flips town let's lynch Stefan.

@Pidgey - Please link me to the other games you are doing this in.
And it's scummy because you and I just finished a game where your f-bomb habits were tied to your scum meta, so, yeah, you trying to clean up looks suspect, but I'm sure I'm just being ridiculous.

What was Jason's claim and why does botching it make him scum? I still haven't heard a Jason=scum case from anyone, you're allowed to lead the charge and state it or link me to it.

Who are the people on CKD that you think are so scummy you're chasing a different scum read?

[Thor665]

Thor you are seriously being ridiculous lol. I can safely tell you that I had a chat with Nero Cain after WWF Attitude 2.0 mafia (where I started to be less of an asshole, you can't be an asshole without ASS!). Here it is though: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4230262

There you are saying you're going to try to be less of a jerk/offensive player.
You use the f-bomb when you say it.

Here you're saying you're going to use less f-bombs.

I see that as two different things, why am I wrong?

Georgia Borden. Not fullclaiming, but I have a Daycop ability. Thor is not town-aligned.

You're a Daycop and also are not fullclaiming.
Yeah...that's the extent of the reaction this gambit is getting out of me.

And smurf on you, Thor, I hate my unvote so much at the moment. Smurf on you,

Bwuh?

Pidgey probably is scum for the reaction to Klick.

[Thor665]

@Thor:
jason claimed 1-shot Neighborizer with a dead player, valid for one Day, only valid one Day/Night cycle after they are lynched/killed.

If Thor is scum, he can just as easily be killed tomorrow, nor am I likely to drop my vote on a scummy person for a daycop result with mere days to go in a Bastard game.

It's not even a Daycop. So...yeah.

In other news, wwho is your top scumspect after GreyICE.
Also, who is obv. town who I shouldn't even bother looking at as scum?

[Thor665]

Actually, all I did was point it out as scummy and you flipped out and acted like it was such a huge case that you had to try to 1v1 me while my vote wasn't even on you.

But, yeah, you should die soon.

[Thor665]

Back from V/LA

@Klick Why did you vesty Thor and not your original scumpick CKD?

Grey just got to L-1, so i'm slightly suspect of the timing here...

What I'm hearing here is that you should be stating intent to hammer, yeah?

[Thor665]

You're still flipping your lid like crazy.
Take a breath and then respond to what I'm saying - I do think you're presenting two different things and acting like they're the same. Specifically, why are you censoring your f-bomb but are using it in the post that "proves" you are trying to censor the f-bomb in multiple games.

Also, you haven't addressed the game you and I were both in where your use of f-bombs led to a scum case on you (and a not unreasonable one, let's be honest). Do you think it's that unreasonable for me to have seen that, and then find it suspect you were self-censoring? Because...that seems pretty normal, why is it so crazy of me to do?

@Klick - If you had investigated me as non-town why ask me if I was non-town, because, y'know, you're supposed to lynch anything that isn't town last I checked. So...yeah. Go away, You're not a Daycop with other powers. If you are, then your role is bastard and a half and you're probably reading stuff wrong.

[Thor665]

I have no read on him at all, and that is meaningless to the point even if I did.

So you're criticizing my vote on someone who you don't have a read on?

@Anyone voting CKD - he looks town, what is this gak?

And then follow that up by attacking the other leading wagon.

That make literally no sense.

Why not?

I have a town read on CKD and my issue with your wagon of fail has nothing to do with any read on the slot. The two thoughts easily and fully work together.

You don't think that the case on GreyCIE is good, you think that the wagon is weird, we have conf. scum in Thor, but if GreyIC doesn't claim we should lynch him? I don't see how that can possibly make sense.

So you're saying you totally believe Klick's claim of being a Daycop + other stuff?
Tell me why?

[Thor665]

I'm not censoring myself. I can still say Smurf. Lol. I just dont want to appear like a troll.

BTW im kinda on self impossed mafia rehabilitation about using the word Smurf a lot so i'll try to keep The Beast Tamed.

Tell me more.

Again, you're saying you're doing this in a lot of games - but you're using different langauge in this one as opposed to the one you linked. Also, if I think you're trying to clean up a scum meta then I don't actually find it relevant that you're doing it in more than one game, especially if you're being dodgy about your reasoning to do it.

Also, you never actually defeated Slandaar's case. I'll agree his case was wrong, but it was a valid case and one you couldn't beat, and one that helped get you lynched while being cop confirmed town. So...yes, I think it is quite logical that you would try to change that up.

@Someone who knows the fluff

- how much sense does it make for a werewolf to be an investigative role and why would Georgia not make sense?

@ICEninja - I think the Pidgey thing has a purpose, your wagon of choice is at L-1 the *worst* the Pidgey discussion can do is help weaken other wagons from getting any steam, so...?

[Thor665]

Tell me in exact words how IM USING A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE and HOW IS IT SCUMMY IF IM DOING THAT. TELL ME EXACTLY HOW WOULD YOU GET A SCUM READ OUT OF THIS SUPPOSED LIE? You are not even grasping at straws here, you are pulling imaginarry threads.

I have done this already.
Read m0ar.

On the other hand Thor why are you asking about the flavour of an obvious fakeclaim like you believe it?

Are you rolefishing? It feels like you're rolefishing.

Because you are attacking votes on small wagons on people who you don't have reads on, and you also don't approve of votes on one of the leading wagons. If you wanted people to consolidate their votes, you should be happier with the leading wagons and if you're not happy with the leading wagons, you should be fine with people looking elsewhere.

Yeah, it's totally crazy how I'm attacking the useless wagons and, of the big wagons, supporting one of them and opposing another.
There is no town motivation or logic behind that at all.

@Klick - do you have assured sanity with this Daycop? Because if you do I'm willing to self vote. Let me know.

[Thor665]

I'd say get a sanity claim from Klick and then I'm game for that.

[Thor665]

Does the flavor say anything about your investigations?

[Thor665]

What implies they are trustworthy?

Paraphrase the fluff in that regard.

[Thor665]

Yeah, it's not 'claim that it's valid and I can sac. for conf. scum lynch' play at all.

And if you know how I play you'd know I don't give up ever and would never do that sort of pansy 'meh, should I give up, plea - I'm still scumhunting over here - go meta me and come back with wisdom.

[Thor665]

Yeah, it's not 'claim that it's valid and I can sac. for conf. scum lynch' play at all.

And if you know how I play you'd know I don't give up ever and would never do that sort of pansy 'meh, should I give up, plea - I'm still scumhunting over here - go meta me and come back with wisdom.

Except you

do

this kind of thing as scum to gain time and cause Town to doubt themselves, dahling. Do you want wisdom?

Yeah, except I didn't self vote, did I, dahling?

What? The town reaction I generally see and expect regarding fake investigations is "WTF I know I'm town, X is lying, vote X."

Well...

1. This is a claimed Bastard setup.
2. It looked like a gambit to start.

So, yeah, that reaction would have been derp.

In other news: Sword's current vote is actually less derp than his previous vote. go figure. Pidgey should move now.

[Thor665]

Let's at least let him explain his confirming fluff first.

[Thor665]

@CKD - already answered that very specific question. Read m0ar.

@Sword - the flavor is important because Klick claims it suggests his sanity - making it highly relevant to hear.

[Thor665]

That would be half of the active players.

I've got a prediction about that one too.

[Thor665]

curiouskarmadog (3) - fatlikepig, greenknight, jasonT1981

Not Voting (2) - ICENinja, pidgey

Also, with three ays to deadline these people should get votes into play, as after the clarification from Klick you're theoretically going to want to L-1 and hammer threat me, or L-1 and hammer threat Grey. People should be in play for that.

[Thor665]

Alright, I'll paraphrase the flavor for my Daycop. It says that I can use my powered senses along with my psychology skills to my advantage and judge whether someone is town-aligned or not town-aligned.

Was there any joke about your abilities in the fluff?

[Thor665]

I agree with that.

[Thor665]

Regardless of my flip I actually think Klick is town.
Just saying.

[Thor665]

It's kind of like a perfect storm of derp.

Nah, I shouldn't be lynched because the info is relatively pointless, and when I flip everyone will just get prissy towards Klick which is, I think, actually a bad play and will waste tomorrow.

[Thor665]

I would advocate ABR death tomorrow.
Just saying.

[Thor665]

Or just the ability to look at a play and deduce whether Klick would commando himself for a Thor mislynch, and the answer is a fat 'no'. He thinks he's telling it like it is, which means he shouldn't be lynched, but you slavering for the call on him are even slipping by admitting I'm town and that a claimed killing Cop will survive the night.

So...

Yeah, I'd lynch you tomorrow over Klick.

[Thor665]

@ICE - please explain to me again how Klick's play looks scummy at all?

@ABR - your buddying is appreciated. You still should die.

[Thor665]

@Konowa - your read on ABR. Go!

@CKD - true/false - you have a town read on me (and why, for either reply)

[Thor665]

You did notice he called me town before he actually called me town though, right?
Read on that?

[Thor665]

And, honestly, if he sat on this slot off 'strong gut' that makes his comment even more scumworthy.

And the town read is almost normal, the town read via slip is pretty gakked though.

[Thor665]

WTS??...I dont have any read on you...I dont believe someone with Klick "power" would claim day 1....it doesnt make any sense, I want to know the timing...I kind of think that Klick was trying to protect grey....and it seems to be working...why would someone with a kill ability AND day cop, come out? he could have killed him tonight and kept going and no one would have Smurfing known.

I'll agree the Grey wagon is being overlooked for this action - but other than that I don't really see the scum gain value there.
Explain his scum motivation to me again.
Also, if you think he's scum...you don't have an opinion about the guy he's running this crazed gambit on? Tell me more.

@Shmugen - Important question, do you think Klick sees himself as a weak link? Also, has he exactly come under much pressure? Thus far everyone has been showing up and mumbling that he looked town to them previously...

@Konowa - the ABR interactions with me last page (y'know, forever ago...when I claimed he slipped) Look at it again. he says he'll lynch Klick tomorrow. There are two presumptions made by saying that.

1. Klick (a claimed Cop/Vig) will be alive tomorrow.
2. Thor will flip town - because if Thor flips scum...um, kinda dumb to want to lynch Klick at that stage

Then gain wisdom.
Also - read m0ar.

[Thor665]

Grey would pretty much have to be a wtflolomg power role or have Klick banking on getting 'best replace evah!' in the slot (and, hey, I'm already here)

So I'm going to go with...no.

[Thor665]

Also, if he hasn't come under much pressure...why sac yourself? You're more valuable than busted Grey buddy in that situation. It doesn't add up - also, his claim makes a fair amount of sense to me.

[Thor665]

Oh you. So you're banking on the sanity then?

Also bemusing interactions. Yes.

All I know is that Thor is actively trying to get lynched. This disturbs me.

I'm pretty sure I'm still advocating a Grey lynch.
Or a you lynch, I'll admit I did that too.

[Thor665]

More like 'skeevy' based I would say.
GreyICE would not take this sort of gak quietly if town. He'd want to be on record with how awesome he was and how derp anyone lynching him was so he could claim brilliance in post game.

[Thor665]

He's barely posted since I joined?

The work he did on Grey that ICEninja quoted looks legit. Other than that he's not been a force at all. So I've got nothing for you.
I like that he prefers a Grey lynch over a Thor lynch

[Thor665]

Did a Ctrl+F of their iso for 'fluff' and got no matches.

[Thor665]

Okay, in that game I see Vi joking about posting fluffy, admitting to posting fluffy, commenting on fluff/content ratio and other stuff in that vein.
What's the comment from this game that will transform that into something suspicious?

[Thor665]

Especially when Vi says fluff is a town tell.

What was this about then?

[Thor665]

We can't get a hammer intent on 1 or even a L-1 on the other.

2 days left - you all can thank me for that because this town id deliciously derpy right now.

@Zdenek, greenknight, sword_of_omens, pidgey, StefanB, ICENinja, Konowa

You are all lynching me (I'll presume for 'info') off a claimed Cop/Vig's comment.
You apparently don't trust the kill portion of the claim.
You haven't said 'boo' to him about applicable other targets (hint: Grey should be one)
Besides Konowa (sort of) you haven't tried to force me to offer reads on anyone, which if I'm town is valuable,a nd if I'm scum is more valuable.
Why do I feel like you are half scum and half derp down there?

[Thor665]

I understand it's mostly gut - but you brought up the fluff thing and I want to understand how that works into them being less townish seeming.

[Thor665]

Why'd you bring up the fluff thing then?

[Thor665]

I feel like I'm having to pull teeth here.

Are you saying a lack of fluff posting from the slot = less townish slot?

[Thor665]

Last game I was in with the hydra (Reverse mafia) they didn't have much fluff posting at all. They were town (albeit scummy town who thought someone would be a solo mason...)
Do you have a Hydra example to back your theory - being in a Hydra does affect posting habits in my opinion.
Also, i think I hate you for bringing this up, because regardless of alignment it's likely to get us more fluff posting from that slot.

Who do you think is the scumbuddy bussing me?

[Thor665]

And as usual - Thor is right.

[Thor665]

What do you think of my scum in Stefan, pidgey, Sixty comment?

I see Pidgey as decent chance, Stefan as null, and suspect you're wrong on Sixty.

Cause if you were town you would have given us enough reads ever since the cop claim, which you really havent. You have mostly been discussing if we should trust a cop result or not.

Huh? Thor has given quite a few opinions on people and been hyperactive since replacing in, which makes his statement that we should be pressing him for reads weird.

This is fascinating because I think he's attacking Pidgey *and* me at the same time and for different reasons.
I'll go 'huh?'
And, yeah, I've been active, but no one besides Konowa has actually really asked me for my reads - so, yeah, that's a silly defense "Oh, *I* haven't asked you for reads because you've given so many thus far..." Actually, I've given a fair shake, but hardly an exhaustive one and Konowa has already asked me for opinions on a slot I had provided *nothing* on thus far, of which there are many more. So, yeah, seriously?

What he's not done is make a real case as to why Klick's cop result could be invalid; his initial stance was "confirm the sanity is guaranteed and I'll selfvote" and he questioned Klick about the flavour, but suddenly dropped that entire line of inquiry after Klick proceeded to claim vig as well.

1. Actually I have expressed my beliefs as to why the cop claim is incorrect in the results. I have also stated i believe the cop claim...so, yeah, whut?
2. Klick ended up not claiming sanity in any real way, he says he thinks he's sane...because! Show me where I got that wrong and you can have your self-vote. I'm excited about this.

Instead he's attacking the wagon on him for

- being for "information" (which it isn't)
- not attempting to direct Klick's nightkill (what would be the point of this? I already pointed out that we don't want town night actions telegraphed to scum)
- not pressing him for reads (why would we want to? If he's scum everything he posted since the claim is WIFOM, and if he's town he's posted a lot so we can presume that all his strong reads are already covered)

This isn't a convincing defence.

Yeah, how weird of me to attack the wagon on me - I'm so saucy and strange

1. It isn't? This wagon gets worse and worse - frankly I thought that was about the best logic there was to it, lynch me to learn about Klick - derp. But...I guess it's not...?

2. Well, with everyone commenting on how "bad" Klick's method of play is thus far I would have thought someone wouldn't trust his shot. Giving him a couple of prime targets of preference (*cough*Grey*cough* might be useful for town. What's the worst that happens, scum blocks a Vig everyone is calling derp? Yeah, cry me a river - what will that change besides scum not being up on anyone else?

3. I disagree with this, but at least it's a stance that's less derp than your one earlier in this post where I'd already provided enough reads. Which do you believe more?


Also, what's your read on ABR?

[Thor665]

From what I can tell, there aren't really any flavour reasons to doubt Klick's sanity, are there?

What's your read on ABR and GreyICE?

[Thor665]

^^^
This. (well, one above 'this')

The closest he gets to a comment is that he thinks I should die at night as opposed to via lynch.

[Thor665]

@Stefan

Directing a power role that you think is playing badly *is* a good idea.
Lynching the non-info lynch and hoping someone shoots someone useful for info *is* a bad idea.
My play hasn't been scummy either before or after the claim.

What's your read on ABR and GreyICE?

@Sixty -

[Thor665]

@Sixty - what's your read on me as regards my likelihood to be town or scum?
Also ABR.

[Thor665]

@Konowa - okay, Sixty can be scum.

Thor: Thanks for first serious answer.

I don't think you know how to tell when I'm serious.

BUT THERE IS A COPGUILTY ON YOU. From a slot that is by all logic town and asides from this is bastard I have no reason to disbelief it.

Aside from the water the ocean is not wet.

You are not claiming miller (Yepp, call this rolefishing, I don't care)

I haven't claimed anything yet.
Also, if Kimor hadn't claimed Miller that's probably a good hint as to the chance of me being Miller.

[Thor665]

Thor: Then let me paraphrase: This was the first time that I got the feeling that you were ready to have a normal discusion with me and not just trying to piss me off.

I still don't think you know how to tell when i am joking.

I would belive a insane/naive... unlimited nightcop, I have trouble to see the logic of 1-shot daycop sanity ?, without any hint.

From my research into the character - she thinks Harry Dresden is potentially insane - discuss.

Also be realistic, if you have a guilty on a player, without any reason to doubt it, so early in the game, you lynch. This is logic.

Even in a bastardgame

.

Fixed.
You lynch the players it is more worthwhile to lynch. Derp.

That's klick's sanity flavour claim which you didn't address:

No, it does not say that I'm guaranteed to be sane. However, I feel like the flavor heavily implies that I'm going to be sane in my investigations.
...Yes. There is flavor in the area that it tells me I have them.

Wow...

So, you mean you *don't* recall me asking him for the flavor?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4458509
Having him tell me he's not assured sane?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4458510
Having me ask about the flavor?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4458542
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4458574
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4460020
and then coming to a conclusion.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4460043

But, yeah, OTHER THAN THAT I haven't responded to his sanity discussion (or, started it...).
You got me!

1) No I'm voting you because I think you're more likely to flip scum than Grey. There's a guilty on you, I don't have a compensating town read from your play, and I don't like your predecessor in the slot either. Any relational information on other players' alignments is secondary. Grey's play has been bad and I think he's on the scummy side of neutral, but the case against him is mostly meta. We know he does this posturing and shouting "scum scum scum" at people as town, the question is would he have dropped the act by now if he is. The fact that he hasn't means there's a better than random chance that he could be scum faking it. But there isn't really a smoking gun imo.

2) er... Redirect? Busdrive? The fact that scum can exploit a known target by blocking Klick 100% if his known target is scum and letting the kill through with 50% probability if the target is town? And you think we really need to encourage him to shoot Grey given that he

unvoted you, his guilty result, to vote Grey

?

3) it's the same thing. I don't see a need to push you for more reads. The case on you doesn't hinge on your connections/lack thereof to other players. As for "posterity": if you're scum they're unreliable WIFOM and if you're town you're posting reads without prompting anyway.

And since you ask, I find ABR suspicious due to the abrupt 180 he's pulled on your slot from Kimor being obvscum to you being so town that he will dismiss Klick's claim entirely.

1. Okay, so you see this as a solid counterwagon to Grey. Got it.

2. I think he should be given recommendations, yes. Who would you shoot tonight if you could shoot?

3. It's not, but thanks.

@Thor: Grey is town, ABR is a firm null at the moment.

Will read posts more closely when I get back home today.

Did you notice his slip I pointed out multiple times?
I feel like you haven't read anything and just hopped on the new wagon - thoughts?

[Thor665]

Anyone ever watch a wagon build on them based off players who apparently have the memory of goldfish for what they've "read"?

It's sort of an odd mix of funny and annoying at the same time.

[Thor665]

I was about to ask "how does that matter a hill of beans?" when I glanced at the thread title closer.

Hurm.

Was she accurate early in the series?

[Thor665]

I said you asked him for the flavour, he gave you the flavour, and then you said "oh I think Klick is town regardless" and dropped it. Which is pretty much what you did. And only now you respond to Stefan talking about the flavour. Why would you not have followed up on Klick with this...

Follow up with what? Telling him I think his role isn't accurate? I've kind of already done that, so...?

Thor says his lynch won't provide any information
I mention at some point that it does
Thor then claims he's being lynched for information
I say I'm voting him because he's scummier than Grey
Thor claims my main motivation is that he's a counterwagon to Grey

This is ridiculous. Pretty sure Thor's going to flip scum and I'm not wasting any further time arguing with him.

1. Actually I said it would provide 'less' but, okay.
2. You actually said you weren't lynching me for info, and that the wagon wasn't about info.

- being for "information" (which it isn't)

3. I did.
4. You did.
5. You think I'm more likely scum than Grey and consequently support my wagon over Grey - feel free to tell me what you think a counterwagon is, because that's my definition of one.

@Sword - your vote of me and unvote after 'reading' feels really awkward. If you hadn't read enough to have a clear opinion why put me to L-2 (or L-3, whichever) with no questions asked?

@ICEninja - Did that FBI guy have an issue with werewolves? Or was it simply that he was one? I suppose the more focused question would be - would the FBI guy perhaps be a lyncher role hunting werewolves?

Also, I like the new vote.

[Thor665]

Flashwagon on Klick just isn't smart without a Thor flip.

That's good - because he voted Grey, so...

[Thor665]

Klick is probably Dalton. But I don't feel like there's time to do anything about this so

let's just lynch Grey today and figure out Klick/Thor

tomorrow

.

Okay.

[Thor665]

@Zdenek - maybe you should tell everyone why Kimor was scum regardless of the investigation on me, that would help your case, yeah?

[Thor665]

@Zdenek - maybe you should tell everyone why Kimor was scum regardless of the investigation on me, that would help your case, yeah?

That would be his ISO.

Ah, of course. But clearly that isn't selling anyone yet - have you maybe offered more concise points? I know he's so terrible that literally every post was a scum claim, but maybe outline only 2-3 of them or something?

[Thor665]

1. Unwarranted defense on a now claimed cop who is calling us guilty - obvious scumplay is obvious...whut?. (oh, and he even explained it in 216 in a manner that looks to make sense to me, maybe you should address that and how it makes him more scummy, or were you ignoring it on purpose?)

2. Repeat. Again, at worst you're calling Kimor scumbuddies with Klick (and in recent light...yeah) At worst you're calling it buddying. But he did the same thing with ICEninja, so do you think he's doing it to all his buddies and you have half the team there? Or do you think Kimor is just a derp player?

3. I would presume defense of someone *is* a read. He also offered scum reads but did it in a way weaker than you would like - because scum are known for not wanting to call people scummy.

4. That at least sounds like a scumtell - you're saying he suspected Jason and attacked Kortul anyway? I'd agree that's questionable.

5. Looking at this I wouldn't call it a misrep - Kimor was defending the accusation from the knowledge he was town and was admitting what he did (read suckily) Kortul was after him for what he thought he did (duck giving reads) Obviously Kimor knows he didn't do that and also fully realizes he was a derp who missed the wagon. Looks not like a misrep at all. At worst you could call it, 'defending from something he wasn't accused of because he's claiming that's what he did' But that doesn't actually really strike me as scummy. In fact it strikes me as a town tell.

No wonder everyone believes Kimor slot is scum without the cop investigation.
I stand in awe of your case. I'll self-vote later.

[Thor665]

EBWOP

3. Though going back and looking, he listed Kortul suspicion at the same time as Jason suspicion. That seems reasonable. He doesn't like either but made a value call to one of them as scummier. Was he obligated to like a bad attack on a slot he thought was scummy for reasons not related to the attack? Nah.

[Thor665]

We are trying to work on that - I don't think I can call the votes on me stupid in any other possible ways than I already have.

[Thor665]

They're not stupid. But something isn't right with Klick's claim so it has to wait.

Yes, actually, I did. It's interesting, but only really becomes noteworthy if you flip town.

[Thor665]

Jason is still sidelining.

[Thor665]

I'm bemused by that potential dance.

[Thor665]

no, way to misrep.. I had been keeping up as much as I can. When I saw the guilty being talked about on the last page, it was the place to put my vote. Especially since there is no other viable wagon with me believing GI is town

Out of curiosity - this means when you decided o read the case on me you started from the most recent posts and started to read backwards?

[Thor665]

Lynch thor, kill greyice sounds good for everyone?

Pidgey, if you are town, you really should engage brain.
Look at where the cop with a guilty on me is voting and gain wisdom.

1. Unwarranted defense on a now claimed cop who is calling us guilty - obvious scumplay is obvious...whut?

Cute trying to use the fact that he's a claimed cop, as though Kimor new that at the start.

Read it again, Sherlock. the point is *if* he was my buddy (as you claim you're pegging him as) then what the hell is the point of me buddying him so he can claim a cop guilty on me? My point is it also doesn't make any sense to buddy Klick unless he's your buddy, and if he's my buddy then he should still be the one dead first as the test regardless.
Also, newsflash - he's pretty clearly not my buddy...so.

Practically every action can be explained, and the problem is that Kimor was ignoring the main wagons at the time.

In my experience with Kimor scum this is not how he plays. You know different?

Defending someone is not offering a read on them.

Good luck selling that one with others.

Also, if you really think the GreyICE case is bad look at this again.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4433109

The case is not bad and isn't even meta based except for some people - but that's the point I'm sheeping.

[Thor665]

SERIOUSLY. WHY IS EVERYONE IGNORING THE 2 POINTS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH META?

LYNCH GREY FOR SMURFS SAKE.

Man now you're trying to become some sort of Fate/Thor hybrid.
We do not need that.

But, yeah, Zdenek's defense is silly because a lot of people aren't on Grey for the meta deal at all. it's a weak dismissal of the wagon.
I have no idea what fatlikeapig's deal is though - he's tilting with probably the silliest case I've seen in a while, and ignoring the big guns and the big cases. It's gakked up as an attack of the wagon because it's not even an attempt at attacking the core of the wagon.

In other words, he looks way worse than Zdenek in how he's doing it.

I actually believe CKD looks better, because he clearly believes what he's selling because...wow.

[Thor665]

Sadly, rampant derp isn't a scumtell last I checked.
Oh how I wish it was.

[Thor665]

Vote: Klick

This should happen.
If for no other reason than someone should explain to me how anyone still believes his claim.

[Thor665]

You have role info that suggests he's a multi-shot daycop with a Vig power?

[Thor665]

I just want a y/n on that one - or a vague clarification if needed.

[Thor665]

@Greenknight - we're doing Thor versus the multi-shot Daycop/Vig now.

[Thor665]

Scum from an opposite faction that is a Daycop and claimed a Vig power?
Yes, I fully believe that has happened.

[Thor665]

Currently - yes.

Day rolecop is one thing - you think that would be a day role cop that got told alignment as well?

[Thor665]

Oh, ICE - so clever and yet so not.
I'll make fun of you later.

But, yes, a Thor v. Klick contest is optimal right now - and people should be weighing in.

[Thor665]

You should vote him now so he has pressure to answer.

[Thor665]

Le sigh.

[Thor665]

With a wagon mate like that I can't imagine anyone should have any issue voting for me.
Bring them on, I'm not likely to start sweating till L-2 or something.

[Thor665]

@greenknight - yeah, but considering who's saying it and why...lulz.

@ICEninja - you are right, my shift over night must mean that I'm desperate scum trying to shift things up. Carry forward.

[Thor665]

That guy should probably eat rope sometime soon also.

[Thor665]

ABR needs death even more than Jason.

[Thor665]

Varying reasons - the one I've already discussed is t this stage his claim is fairly obviously false insomuch as he is lying about his powers.

[Thor665]

@ICEninja - you want Thor dead and you also sheep Thor's other scum calls (besides the CKD one, which is all you I'll admit). [insert snark here]. But, seriously, Jason, ABR, and Pidgey? Hurm... (though, with the Jason and Pidgey side adventure onto Albert I'm thinking both you and I are wrong about some aspect of that trio)

Why do you like the wagon on me other than town reads being on it - because that's actually not a real endorsement of the wagon unless you can put into words why it's a good wagon. I'm trying to walk you though this a bit but ::shrug:: Let me put it this way - there's at least one scum on me by this point, I think that is painfully obvious. I'll also add that I agree with you that a lot of the people voting me look like town. Now, maybe I'm just derp wrong about all their alignments, that happens, but who is the odd one out exactly?...exactly.

I'm actually amazed we can't get either me or Klick to L-1 with hammer intent.

@Konowa - who do you think is the scum on my wagon right now?

[Thor665]

The ABR "slip" is ridiculous. As scum, this puppyhalf loves to push people on stuff like that which is meaningless. Not remembering a color he saw probably twice (his role PM and the sample PM) doesn't mean anything.

Not even when he acts confused by it? Which means, theoretically, he should have been asking himself 'so what does that color mean?'

That said, have you weighed in on his slip yesterday, which is the much more telling slip and much less wine stained?

[Thor665]

Cut by Thor: what slip of ABR's? We have said you have boring questions. We do not see ABR as scum. Go do something else.

1. Thor, what is this slip?
2. We have said Thor is boring.
3. Thor, do something else.

Whut?

Either you're ignoring me and I'm useless, or ou think I'm town not helping the forward motion, but to combine both is rather derpy. Also, if you missed my calls with Albert yesterday I pointed out how he called me town - and not as a read but as a 'Thor is town' sort of comment (also apparently coming off of having suspected the slot supposedly). So...

You also ding me for the Jason call but not ICEninja - why is that?

@Kortul - you are taking that comment way out of context. People were saying at that point that if I flipped town it made Klick scummy. I was clarifying that I didn't see it that way - and also I'd never stated prior to that that I thought he was a town read, so it needed statement. So...misrep or derp? Let me know.

[Thor665]

Oh, you didn't get the memo? We think you are

scum

. We also think ICEninja, jason and ABR are Town, therefore why should we 'ding' ICEninja where he's already voting on the right place?

If I do something and ICEninja does something, and you call it a scumtell only when I do it - all you're doing is proving it's not a scumtell.

And this puppyhalf would even go as far as to say that trying to sell "X is Town" as a scumtell is beneath you. a) Reads change, b) that is not a scumtell, and c) he actually said "I'm pretty sure Thor is town here", which doesn't match any kind of 'slip'.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4461399
Read m0ar. Don't just skim ISOs and pretend you are. There was kind of a whole discussion about it yesterday too - with multiple people involved, and you don't even recall it existing in the first place, and then probably just Ctrl+Fed me or ABR and found one post (immediately *below* the one I called him out on) and act like that must be all of the case.

[Thor665]

I'd put money that exactly one of the 3 is scum. I'm not sheeping you, either, these are my own reads.

Shouldn't it concern you that you and 'scum' have come to near identical reads through different methods?

Looking at Thor's behavior yesterday (defending the person who had a guilty on him) and shift to today (Klick is obviously scum and has to die) along with a few other smaller inconsistencies suggests that a night action Thor was hoping to happen, didn't. That or a scum buddy proposed a plan of action. I'm honestly not sure yet. I think Grey's buddy tried to kill Klick last night to insure Thor's death today (if Klick flipped cop, obviously Thor is going to get rope) but StefanB pulled the shot to himself. Thor/Thor's buddy killing Zdenek makes plenty of sense, but we have no idea what night actions scum could have.

Couple of things;

1. Yeah, night actions may have something to do with it.
2. I'm insulted you think I'd be going with a scumbuddy's plan - feel free to tell me which player here you think I'd seek out for advice or alter my play for because they told me to?
3. Greyscum might have targeted Klick for death to get Thor dead (though this is actually a decent argument for Thor town, natch) but I don't think that's what went down.
4. I'm insulted you think I'd waste a kill on Zedenek.
5. You and I both know your role info has to be pretty gakky right now. So don't hide behind it.

[Thor665]

Imagine that. Still boring.

[Thor665]

I look forward to being reminded why CKD looks scummy.
Because that looks pretty awesome to me.

@ICEninja

1. I can see the vibe there.
2. What if I came out with a bit of self-meta that said I'd never done that - ever? What would be you reply?
3. The point is, if your result is gakky that shouldn't be part of your case. Look at the two of us as players regardless of your role info (feel free to include his) now what do you see? Still a 'Thor needs to go first' situation?

[Thor665]

[Thor665]

@Sixty - you gonna be answering my questions now, puppy boy.

[Thor665]

Well, I was actually calling you out for not using scumtells correctly and also skimming and wanting to know you call on *my* case.

But...yeah, sure, continue the no read and lying trend.

[Thor665]

Sixty is scum.

[Thor665]

What's your read on the Thor/Sixty interaction. because either I'm being shockingly unreasonable and don't realize it - or he is looking scummy and dodgy as all get out.

[Thor665]

@Pidgey - I feel like you're the most abrupt of the 180s - thoughts?

[Thor665]

I like your reasoning for ABRscum and jasonscum more than Sixty does. However, I don't think Sixty is scum.

Do you see town logic in how he's discussing the ABR case with me?

[Thor665]

You guys are either out of your gourds or somehow incapable of carrying on a conversation about something else while waiting for a lurker. What are we supposed to do while waiting for him? Grunt and groan and mumble about how he needs to come back and respond?

[Thor665]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that even though Klick is not town, that's not proof of it.

[Thor665]

The thing is - Sixty didn't even understand what I was talking about when he dismissed it.
That proves he's not reading.
Then he tries to bluster by it again and acts like I'm ridiculous for pointing it out.

You then say this is normal.

[Thor665]

I mean, if his reply when I had pointed it out had been 'aw...yeah, I hadn't remembered that/skimmed over it...meh, it's still dumb' okay - vague point.
But functionally he denied that he hadn't read it and also denied that he hadn't recalled it and just said I was derp for trying to even talk to him.
He was trying to bum rush my lynch and shock and awe away from me catching him in the lie.

[Thor665]

*cough*becausehe'slying*cough*

A solid question from which I suspect wonderful insights shall spring.

[Thor665]

Care to explain why your read on this slot has flipped twice now?

Because of two possibilities;

1. He's town who is just doing CrAzY reaction tests constantly and not saying any results.

2. He's semi-busted scum who is trying to set that up as a defense for later.

You do win for your reply to ICEninja though - I had one similar but more sarcastic.

[Thor665]

Just to clarify;
Konowa was voting Thor.
Klick is still L-1

@Shmugen - if he is right ( ) then, worst case, you get Thorscum plus a 50/50 for at least one additional scum.
Remind me how this is a bad flip (other than believing he is an unlimited shot sane Daycop with limited Vig powers).

[Thor665]

Well, you're wrong.
But I don't actually know what point you're making there,

[Thor665]

Is pidgey scum?

I could see it - I found his fervor for my lynch and then fervor of reverse to be coming from someone who was likely to be wanting to act like he believed, rather than believing.
Basically he seems to lack paranoia - and paranoia is a town tell.

[Thor665]

@Kimor

<3 you for your conversations in your QT with your buddies about what was happening in game - I feel like we were sad mirrored souls watching a train wreck, seeing what would happen, and yet being totally helpless to stop it

Wish you hadn't kept urging CKD to talk me out of killing Sixty though.

[Thor665]

@MoI - I didn't feel the need to get a mod created fakeclaim. My rolePM already gave me a fakename, and that fakename was going to work well with a Watcher claim (which is what I would have claimed) and the werewolf confusion with Klick's claim, I think, would have tossed some decent wifom into everything as I could have played on ICE's paranoia about that werewolf killing FBI guy and suggest that what Klick was actually was said werewolf FBI guy and that he had an ability to find werewolves and that's why he wanted me dead (a rough sketch of the angle I was planning to take if pushed to claim)

Never came up, but that's why I was relaxed. I'll admit I actually didn't even really expect to end up at a claim request at any point this game - but even if I had I wouldn't have gone running to the mod. I'm not sure if that's odd play or not, but I've never asked a mod for help with a fakeclaim.

[Thor665]

I comprehended the different types of shapechangers - I don't see how that would affect my claim.
What part am I missing?

[Thor665]

what Klick was actually was said werewolf FBI guy and that he had an ability to find werewolves and that's why he wanted me dead

This. Denton would not have this kind of ability.

Billy as a watcher didn't make much sense either, tbqh. As a tracker, follower, bodyguard, motivator, neighborizer, co-[ability] anything, that could be feasible on flavor. Watcher, not so much.

I think it would make functional sense for him to be hunting werewolves though - at that point the ability makes sense to my mind. No?

I think the Billy thing could have been argued decently considering his patrols. My impression.

[Thor665]

Denton wasn't hunting werewolves, though. He was killing specific targets (he got into this whole hexenwolf business by trying to hunt down corruption, then lost control over his own nature along the way) and using Harley MacFinn as a patsy.

...Look, just read the books already.

Eh, if someone had presented that to me - then I would have simply started suggesting he was a rolecop or something and was targeting me because I was a town PR.

I might consider th ebooks, but I'm already reading Song of Ice and Fire thanks to this forum, I'm not sure I need another series right now.

[Thor665]

Don’t let ASOFAI discourage you from taking on another good series.

I'm actually enjoying ASOIF and consider it a fun read.
It's just I'm reading that seriies, the Flashman series, a Warhammer 40k series, and a pair of books on documentary filmmaking right now. And my backlog book pile isn't small either.
I'm just not sure I want an extra 13 books on it