NY 160: Terrible Melodrama Mafia (Game Over)

[RedCoyote]

Alright, coming into this game like an avocado on fire. Reading now.

[RedCoyote]

Mod

, will you edit the VC to include your new favorite replacement, please?

[RedCoyote]

Spoiler: Some Notes

I have no issue with prolonging RVS by a few posts or even a page, we have two weeks. Tons of time to get through everyones bullshit.

In other words, "eh, hey, guys, leave me alone... can we go back to RVS... please... please..."

---

I didn't like Piggy's chainsaw defense of Senjai. ME thinks there is something worth investigating in there

Agreed.

---

Setting aside the remarkable fencesitting nature of this post, where do you get "nervous"?

I like this post a lot too.


---

It wasnt serious im afraid?
On a related note, do you think one of them where acting scummy at the time?

This is kind of a strange response after your name has been brought up. You seem to be ignoring it.

What does anyone else think?

:/

---

You

should

care (atleast a lil') since if you know that you are town then you should try to not appear scummy and A.) NOT get yourself mislynced and B.) make other townies think you are scummy thereby letting scum slip by sice the attention is on you.

Even if you are playing "scummy" to bolster your scum meta you should be policy lynched.

This sounds extremely forced.

---

Second of all, I havent moved my vote because currently there is nothing worth moving it too.

Cop out.

---

Plan B's post 154 is really on top of things.

---

Good work having scum-reads on three of the biggest wagons.

Good work having no scumreads and no vote.

Coming into this game, I think both of the top wagons are perfectly valid. I think the JS wagon is more valid because he is far too concerned with what others think about his reads and activity. He seems to be sticking his finger in the air to see which was the votes are going before making any firm stands on anyone. I think both PG15 and N are playing under the radar. I'm not impressed with either of them so far. N in particular ir rubbing me the wrong way. He has kind of kept himself unknown for the majority of the day before popping up for a "gotcha!" vote on C+B. I didn't like it at all. It felt more like he was trying to distract the thread than he was genuinely preturbed with C+B's response.

In any case, I will gladly contribute to the JS wagon right now.

Vote: JacobSavage

[RedCoyote]

Oh, no. Not this time. You can count on me, DC!

[RedCoyote]

Lol, close!

[RedCoyote]

I admit it's not on one of the leading wagons, but I'm always nervous of quicklynches after previous games I've been in.

We're 10 pages in at this point and 60% done with D1 deadline-wise. I don't think you can cop out to fears of a "quicklynch" any longer.

---

You had JS on your townreads (with 4xn as a really shitty scumread) and then realized you had a wagon on you gaining momentum, so you knew you had to join the counterwagon. Jacob's been bumbling around with his disorganized and scattered thoughts all game, but it's just now that you have an issue with them. You even stoop so low as to completely invent a scumslip to try to drive a nail in his coffin.

This is a solid point.

---

I for one actually believe piggy's claim, I mean she will probably be dead by the morning but she might have something interesting to tell us if she survives.

I don't. Do not underestimate this cute little piggy. She'll we-we-we all the way to a victory with her fakeclaim. I'm willing to spare her today and let her alone to claim her results tomorrow, but do not underestimate her.

---

"I'm not ouching this piggy wagon even though it objectively looks better, so I'm going for mislynch bait JacobSavage and make up a bunch of crap reasons for joining his wagon."

I explained my preference for JS. I see his cautiousness as more suspicious that PG15's active lurking. I don't have a problem with JS over his struggle to communicate effectively, as you assumed. I suspect him for letting others dictate his play. Those are two very different things.

---

If people start lynch claimed PRs, with no counterclaims, I'm honestly going to stop playing mafia.

...but it's a closed setup.

---

You fill your posts with so much bullshit and you apparently can’t read well enough to even listen to what I’m saying. Just shut up and go back to watching Japanese porn cartoons.

There's no need to get upset. Although this kind of emotion generally points to being town.

---

Alright, N and RedCoyote, one of you's going to help me and bus your buddy. RC, since I like you, I'll give you first shot (and you've already publically called him out, so you're halfway there).

I'll gladly join you. I don't think I want to see PG15 gone today, and I think the JS wagon is losing steam (I don't agree with you that he's a bad wagon, but I think Plan B was one of our biggest assets... if he's losing faith, then it might be hard to keep the wagon in line).

Unvote

;

vote: N

Today's your lucky day NC. doomyoshi is well on his way to taking your spot on my scumlist.

He should take mine. I don't care for that post, and I don't know why DY had to quote you when he was voting JS. It immediately makes it look like he's trying to defend N over the tiniest bit of pressure.

[RedCoyote]

True enough on the former, and the latter I'll agree to disagree.

[RedCoyote]

Careful, my ego can only take so much stroking. After that, it just feels like manipulation.

Understood. You're my number one townie at the moment. I don't necessarily agree with you in regards to JS, but I respect your argument and will hold off. I don't think I have the capital nor the inclination to pursue him. I think I'm more confident in my N read anyways.

Sure, if it came in a natural flow. This didn't. Nero Cain was away for three days. The outburst was out of proportion to anything I can imagine he'd really be feeling. That makes it seem fake, ostentatious. It's like PiggyGal15's big post. They're both like costume jewelry. All shiny and pretty to look at, but worthless, really.

Another good point. I don't know if I can earnestly defend NC from a lynch today. I just know that being a dick seemed to fall in line with general town meta as well as townNC I have played with before. I won't put myself in front of this wagon over it.

I don't really get the N wagon, unless it's about him piddling around off in a corner to appear busy? Am I on the right track with the reasoning?

Overcautious. Not committing to a vote for too long of a time. Not committing to scumreads for too long of a time. Being critical of aggressive players for trying to move the game forward on "easy" wagons. Generally playing under the radar. Expressing fears of a "quicklynch" 10 pages into the game with 60% of the day done, deadline-wise.

---

Didn't like Piggy's and Senjai's combo bandwagoning, especially after DC's post;

Because PG15 is scum scum scum. Senjai was just being concise. He has expressed suspicion on NC before, so I see nothing wrong or peculiar with his vote.

[RedCoyote]

No, frankly, I don't. I don't have a strong enough townread on you.

[RedCoyote]

Is there any way we can finagle some sort of plan to confirm both PRs?

Watcher on the Roleblocker is the only logical option.

Nero Cain (5)- Plan B, adorkable, PiggyGal15, Senjai, 4nxi3ty

You left Toon off this wagon.

---

Okay, the NC wagon should stop. I'm no longer comfortable with it. NC voters ought to join either the N or JS wagons.

[RedCoyote]

Of course there's always that possibility.

What else would you propose we do, JS?

[RedCoyote]

Empking, can I interest you in an N lynch instead?

[RedCoyote]

DC, if I lynch scumPG15, will you love me again?

[RedCoyote]

DY's flip seemingly hurts both my N and JS scumreads.

[RedCoyote]

The one player that has consistently weird interactions with DY over the course of his iso looks to be 4nx.

Also, it was very cool to be a star in the flavor.

Vote: 4nxi3ty

[RedCoyote]

I don't necessarily agree that 4nx is likely town because of that, but I also don't feel all that comfortable with my scumreads right now.

Unvote

;

vote: F-16_Fighting_Falcon

[RedCoyote]

GB, what do y'all say to the fact that DY was pushing C+B suspicions pretty hard throughout the day? You don't think it was too hard?

I'm starting to think Toon might be the way to go today... but I feel like every player I look at leads to grasping at straws to find a solid connection to DY. The thing about Toon is that they had one little handshake early in the game and that was it. I'm also concerned about UT.

Unvote

;

vote: Toon Fighter

Having trouble with scumreads in this game, but I think Toon > NC > F-16 right now.

One more thing to note:

Scummy people:
N (not acting like a townie being wagoned, is pretty much keeping his head down in response to pressure)
Piggy (already been over this)
UT (Law&Order tell)
Red Coyote (he just is)
adorkable (posting is too snipey for my liking; insists on sitting on and inconsequential wagon without really advancing it)
Toon Fighter (for GB's reasons)

There's likely a scum in the group of N, adorkable, UT, and Toon.

[RedCoyote]

It means more for both of us though. We're both on the list. Also Piggy is dead. Also I have reads on the remaining players on that list to influence which are more/less likely to be scum. Don't you?

[RedCoyote]

There's likely a scum in the group of N, adorkable, UT, and Toon.

If we're going to assume scum took the very basic tactic of killing off people that suspect them, you should include yourself in that group.

Which, as UT pointed out, is about 42% of the game.

Why would I include myself in my scum suspects...?

Additionally, I agree with GB. I do not see a connection between JS and DY here. Those voting JS should explain how I'm wrong for thinking that or reconsider their vote.

[RedCoyote]

UT, what do you say to DY being the biggest advocate for a JS lynch yesterday? That was all pretend?

[RedCoyote]

Town RB

and

town Watcher make sense together balance-wise. My other head wants to note she thinks it's unlikely that we've outed two town PRs D1 and is initially inclined to think one of the two to be scum.

this comment stood out to me. (using hydra to sit on both sides of the issue?)

the apologetic nature of their prod dodges bothers me as well.

vote: adorkable

I agree with this comment.

---

RC, Doom didn't 'push C+B' hard throughout the day at all, in fact if anything he defended them and was very waffly about them.

Everytime I read through DY I feel like I'm going round in circles. His attacks aren't particularly harsh; his defenses not particularly steadfast. He seemed to bring Senjai and C+B up a lot with others, acknowledging how C+B looks "fishy" and trying to hold him to his commitments.

I think adorkable or UT is the way forward today.

[RedCoyote]

Empking, I don't think we've been giving you enough credit for your earlier reads. Is there one thing you could say that would put this game into perspective for players like me and N? You seem to really have a good feel for things, but then again maybe I just always see you as calm and determined based on your playstyle.

[RedCoyote]

I agree, but why not pick a date for the dance?

Because I honestly couldn't give you a preference off the top of my head. On a related subject, what's with your sudden interest in suspecting N? I seem to recall you trying to undercut the efforts that DC and I made to get N under some pressure earlier.

In any case, I'm sheeping Empking. I think adorkable is being more helpful to the town relative to UT as my tiebreaker.

Vote: Untrod Tripod

Oh, and I wanted to mention, if we have any other investigative roles, I think it would be wise for them to consider coming out now.

[RedCoyote]

They actually have, UT. Go back and look at his predictions if you don't believe me. You think I'm just pulling this out of my ass?

STRONG WORK, RC, STRONG WORK

Thank you. I try.

[RedCoyote]

I think you're pulling it out of your ass and hoping no one will go back and actually read the game.

RC, we both found Post 600 very 'wtf' from you. Empkings reads list is in Post 337, you claim to have a strong town-read on us which makes his prior Senjai scum-read wrong, Piggy flipped town thus it's a read wrong, Doom was correct and UT I'm fairly sure is also wrong but lets say for the sake it's in the balance. That means his reads at the moment are 1/3 correct re; scum-reads so you just brainlessly sheeping him for 'good reads' isn't like you at all.

To build on what Empking already alluded to, y'all are both discounting how well he has been doing thus far. Let me illustrate:

• Very Town

  
  JacobSavage

  Probably Right

  
  
  

  Town

  
  adorkable
  Demon Core

  RIGHT

  
  Nero Cain

  RIGHT

  
  Plan B

  Probably Right

  
  Cletus+Brandine

  Probably Right

  
  Toon Fighter

  RIGHT

  
  
  

  Null

  
  RedCoyote Number Six

  Half Right

  
  N
  4nxi3ty
  
  

  Scum

  
  Senjai
  PiggyGal15 (not with Doom)

  RIGHT

  
  DoomYoshi (not with Piggy)

  RIGHT

  
  Untrod Tripod

  Probably Right

I think that's a pretty damn good track record right there.

As to GB's point about me sheeping, would it help if I gave y'all some town meta of me doing this? I know how valuable that is to both of y'all. I don't mind following the leader if I don't believe I have a good grasp on the game. It doesn't mean that I won't contribute, but I think nothing wrong with calling out townreads and then joining up with them. I'll still scrutinize Empking or Plan B if I deem necessary, but as of now they've both got my support to continue in the way they have been.

---

Why?

Why not? We're at D3. Most of the players seem to be unsure of themselves. I think the town is missing a natural leader here. GB and Plan B are doing okay, but they seem to be acting a little too complimtative. Empking would be fine if more people signed on to him, but that's always tough to do for him, I think.

I've come to the realization that looking through DY is pointless. DY did a good job concealing his alliances. I think an some results could help us nail someone today. If the scum have any sort of Role Cop, there go two nights of free investigations for them to find their N3 target.

---

Not at all sure what gave you that impression? Remind me where?

I retract this point upon closer examination of your ISO.

---

On an unrelated note, I don't know how Nost gets to his scumread on me given that he didn't ever mention me or Number Six in his catchup post. You'd think he'd slip something in there like "didn't like X post" or something.

[RedCoyote]

Scum

Senjai
PiggyGal15 (not with Doom)

RIGHT

PiggyGal15 (not with Doom)

RIGHT

(not with Doom)

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, I hate to sound like a broken record, but Nost's continued posting gives me absolutely no comfort in that slot. As 4nx just commented on, he's somehow making himself look worse with each consecutive post. Frankly, I don't think that happens all too often with replacements.

@ RedCoyote, yes it would help if you gave town-meta of you sheeping.

Open 304: Hard Boiled (PR)
Open 284: Tit for tat (VT)

Sometimes I just find it more powerful to join those that I agree with and give them support than I do try and force myself to have a fiercely independent leading role in the town. I'm certainly not kicking back and planning to take the rest of the game off, mind you. This is just how I think I may be most beneficial for the town right now.

[RedCoyote]

That's right, UT. Everyone but you is scum.

[RedCoyote]

The point I'm getting at is that just because someone is voting you doesn't necessarily mean they're being illogical or scummy. I think if you spent more time on offense instead of defense, you'd get farther. Far be it from me to tell you how you should act in this situation you got yourself into though.

[RedCoyote]

Let me take delay my next post because GB are making me feel bad for not being involved enough... and I love the two players in that hydra and respect their opinions very much. I want to make a decent one. If there's one policy I stick to through thick and thin, it's that I never, ever refuse any player that asks me to post my reads. I think that should be the focus of every town player: wide open communication.

[RedCoyote]

Why would sheeping GB be acceptable and Empking not? Did you see this post? Please don't say "because it's Empking". I hate that argument generally and will refuse to dignify it.

[RedCoyote]

Yes, I know. I'm working on it.

[RedCoyote]

I think that's a copout though. Reg is a good player. Empking is a good player. 4nxi3ty is a good player. You know another thing they all have in common? They can all make mistakes. Further, when there's a disagreement of a read between them in a specific game, as there is in this one, only one of them can be right.

[RedCoyote]

That last part came out weird, but I'm referring to UT.

[RedCoyote]

RC, I have no issue with you taking into account your town-reads reads but the degree you're weighing them above your own is the issue I have and sure I'd love examples of you doing that as town in the past so if you remember doing so in any particular games then link me the situations. And I'd like an updated reads list from you or at least the scum->town thing you do with a little bit of reasoning behind the stronger reads. Need to understand where your heads at and see if I can follow your line of thought at all. Also I know this is an odd kind of question but can you explain what you think the difference between your scum and town meta is.

First off, I'll go ahead and repst the links again. I don't know if you saw it or not. If you don't think they apply, then you should tell me why not. I don't expect you to read the entire games (although feel free), but I'm referring to the specific point in the game that the link goes to:

Open 304: Hard Boiled (PR) Effectively allowed HN to take point on the D1 lynch. Later me and him went round and round. This just goes to show that while I will maintain my own independent reads, I'm not afraid to join wagons under the pretense that someone made a solid case where support is well deserved.

Open 284: Tit for tat (VT) Generally had a very difficult time reading players in this game. It was at least in part influenced by my like of many of the players. I wasn't particularly satisfied with my ability to get a grasp on the game, ultimately leading me to hold steady on this vote. I died immediately thereafter, but it was what I felt was the best direction at the time.

As to your third question, naturally I try to play as similarly as possible in order to avoid anyone being able to detect me as scum. It has been brought up before that I have a tendancy to play "better" as scum than I do as town. I can neither confirm nor deny that. I try to play as both alignments equally well (or appear to anyways). That being said, I've made no secret about the fact that I enjoy playing as scum significantly more than I do playing as town. Whether or not that has an influence on my overall play is subject to debate. If you are relying on it to assess your opinion of me thus far in this game, I can assure you I am struggling mightily to stay interested. Evidenced by my less-than-spectacular start and reluctance to show as much gumption as I would like.

To set the remaining players, let's go with something like this:

[

Town

]-------PlanB-Emp---4nx--JS-GB-[

∙

]F16--N---Nost-UT---------[

Scum

]

I think adorkable's attempt at wagon analysis in post 373 was weak sounding and felt forced. She ultimately never did anything with it and just let it sit there. I'm not even sure how she gets to a DY vote based on that (if it even influenced it at all). She was also critical of me for suggesting that we should look for scum between her, UT, N, and Toon (both her and UT were), but I thought that was fine given that I suspected all of them in either case. 4nx pointed out how peculiar that adorkable sounded when discussing role possibilities. I very much agreed with that comment. Nost's replacing in has been lacking. His attempt to sneak a scumread on me and try to justify it after the fact was strange and seemingly steeped in some ulterior motive. It was almost as if he pre-planned to throw a little suspicion on me but simply forgot to make something up for it.

Unlike adorkable, UT has been completely reactionary this game. The evidence for that is here, here, and here. I don't agree with his premise that we follow DY to JS. I don't agree with him, for one, but also because I think it's a waste of time to connect the two. DY just didn't provide the connections necessary for something really meaty. His latest frustrations with Empking strike me as motivated purely on the fact that Empking suspects him. Objectively, Empking has been very accurate thus far. That's not a surefire indicator of future accuracy by any stretch, but to actively try and dismiss it is unnecessary and scummy.

[RedCoyote]

Nost and UT... pals 4 lyfe <3

also repeating over and over that Empking's reads are super duper accurate isn't going to make it true

And the inverse is true as well, my friend. You can keep repeating over and over that his reads are wrong. It doesn't make it any more true than when you cried about it the first time.

[RedCoyote]

Should I claim then? GB? F-16?

[RedCoyote]

Because I'm not scum, lunkhead.

I can't believe Nost managed to squeeze through yesterday. The scumteam obviously had a hand in sparing his life there.

GB has made a strong, steady case, but that's par for the course with them. F-16 is yesterday's news. Nost is what's happening.

Vote: Nostredeus

I would've done this yesterday, but I truly wasn't here. I work a graveyard shift. I didn't check the thread until a few hours after the lynch took place.

[RedCoyote]

Addressing one point specifically though, GB, because you seem to put a lot of stock into it. It was fairly clear to me that F-16 was responding almost directly to your post 723 in his post 724. Maybe you're right, but it's certainly not a slam dunk scumtell in my eyes. A reasonable accusation, but it can be interpreted in a different way.

[RedCoyote]

Because neither of them were voting me and I thought either of them wouldn't hesitate to be the hammer, even if I wouldn't have been their first choice. I didn't think Plan B would choose me over UT (and I was right).

GB made it very clear that they thought UT was town (but not me). F-16 made it clear he was comfortable with my lynch.

[RedCoyote]

GB has been on F-16's case almost from the beginning of the game. I must say that I do feel like F-16, as town, would've been more adept and keeping himself motivated and up-to-date. I'm one to talk, but F-16 certainly spent a great deal of time talking down JS. Coming from someone that had suspected JS early on, it did become increasingly apparent, likely from the end of the first day, that that wasn't where we needed to go.

Analyzing the nightkills, I'm not particularly worried we'd be lynching a Vig in F-16. GB and N have both presented stronger cases on F-16 than I can muster on Nost. I don't agree with them on Nost, but I'm not prepared to make F-16 into any sort of strong townread of mine (in contrast with how GB views Nost, for example).

F-16, let's go ahead and see your claim, please.

[RedCoyote]

So, let me get this straight. You attack Plan B, but you don't have the balls to vote him. So you try to sneak a vote on me at the end instead? When neither of us have any votes? Talk about disingenuous.

F-16, your claim technically adds up, but I still have a sense eating at me that you're not being truthful.

GB, I really want to give y'all support, but I am really, really struggling to see townNost here. Every single post he makes gives me the willies. Had I thought UT was going to be such a hard sell yesterday, I'd have been more than willing to push Nost yesterday. It really only came down to me likely adorkable a teensy bit more.

[RedCoyote]

Happy Birthday, Empire.

[RedCoyote]

4nx, you brought up me asking for the claim. Well, yeah, I had intentions to hammer... until Nost posted. I swear that I'm not trying to be an obstacle, but every single time Nost posts I see him as worse and worse. I don't really see how GB or you don't get the same thoughts I am getting from the slot. I think he's extremely sleazy and has ulterior motives. His voting of me was a perfect example of that. He sits there and criticizes Plan B for the whole post before he votes me. There's something very sketchy about that. I've never really got why he's suspected me anyways. At first I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he had just replaced in that maybe he had honestly left something out during his catch up post, but I don't think he ever really explained it well. I'm bias, sure, but the sting is still there regardless. There's something unsettling about a player that doesn't have the courage to vote for their biggest suspects or explain them, even if it's unpopular.

[RedCoyote]

Knock it off, 4nx.

[RedCoyote]

Okay, glad I wasn't replaced. I'm still feeling woozy. I got this wicked fever yesterday and I think it's finally starting to break.

4nx, pretty much anyone that wasn't on his wagon, me excluded of course. It's rare enough for a no lynch, but it's super rare for it to stagnate so long.

[RedCoyote]

I'm hitting a major wall with Mafia right now, unfortunately. I intend to finish this game though. I think it goes without saying that I am seriously wrong on one of my town reads (ArcAngel, Empking, and GB). Ideally, I guess, I would choose N to get lynched here. I've suspected him for some time. I want to do some VCA first though.

[RedCoyote]

I can support that.

[RedCoyote]

Alright. Debating whether or not I should claim my actual role, but I figure it may buy me a little more creditability. Further, since we're in a mass claim situation, my earlier (quite possibly too obvious) attempt at attracting a night kill did not work, and I don't think I will get shot should we go to another night phase, I will claim

Bulletproof

.

I really dislike having to do this. I think the whole point of the role is to not have to claim it, but for the reasons listed above, I think it's the best choice at this time. I could never seemingly pose a strong enough threat to the scumteam, and I also propose that the scumteam intentionally left me alive as lynch bait. So for how I have failed in using my role properly to attract a kill, I will make a stand against GB.

First of, N is not on point to call 4nx's protection obvious. 4nx is on record calling GB, N, and Emp all town. I just went through his ISO, so I know this for a fact. Additionally, although he never really came out and literally said he saw plan B as town, he defended him consistently throughout the game. So, really, we don't learn much from 4nx, unfortunately. To be sure, I'm actually a little frustrated that 4nx wasn't more loose with the information he had. I mean, we can assume that he didn't have enough to finish the game, but it may have made today a hell of a lot easier had he told us whom he DID successfully visit. The only solid, concrete thing we can really conclude from 4nx is that he definitely did not visit me last night. Seriously. I am completely off the table for today's lynch because of 4nx, ironically. Of course, it should be noted that if there are two scum left (as opposed to one scum or one scum/SK) then I could very well be scum in that instance, but there's literally no reason to take that chance on D5. It's illogical. And I intend to argue strongly for this point if I need to, not just for the obvious bias I have in keeping myself alive, but because objectively it's the right thing to do for the town.

The more important thing to look at now is VCA between our remaining four candidates:

D1 Lynch

PiggyGal15

(8)-

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

,

Untrod Tripod

,

Nero Cain

,

4nxi3ty

, Empking, Gentlemen Bastards,

Toon Fighter

,

Demon Core

Nero Cain

(2)- Plan B,

PiggyGal15

N (2)- RedCoyote,

DoomYoshi

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

(1)-

JacobSavage

DoomYoshi

(1)-

adorkable

Not voting: N

D2 Lynch

Toon Fighter

(7)-

4nxi3ty

, Empking, RedCoyote, Gentlemen Bastards, N,

Untrod Tripod

,

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

JacobSavage

(1)-

Toon Fighter

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

(1)-

JacobSavage

Plan B (1)-

Nero Cain

Not voting:

adorkable

, Plan B

D3 (No) Lynch

Nostredeus

(5)-

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

, Plan B, Gentlemen Bastards, N,

JacobSavage

RedCoyote (3)-

4nxi3ty

,

Untrod Tripod

,

Nostredeus

Untrod Tripod

(2)- Empking, RedCoyote

D4 Lynch

Nostredeus

(5)- Empking,

F-16_Fighting_Falcon

, RedCoyote, N,

4nxi3ty

RedCoyote (2)-

Nostredeus

, Gentlemen Bastards
Not voting: ArcAngel9

Based on final counts alone, I think Empking and GB clearly look to be the worst of the group. They both stick out like a sore thumb on the D1 lynch. Both are riding Toon on D2. And while Emp was a part of the Nost lynch, GB was a part of that weird, last minute push to get him lynched on D3. I think, personally, that GB looks worse here. Mainly because that D3 was scramble was orchestrated in large part by F-16, GB's nemesis, and GB had been consistently a supporter of Nost even before D4. He did suspect him somewhat earlier in the game, but on D3 he had pretty much been in his camp. Why he took such a supportive stand for him on D4 and not on D3 is strange, even taking into context the last minute push on D3. Further, Nost

was

a townie, meaning the nonchalance of those of us on D3 to lynch him, advertent or not, was actually a town tell. Scum would've been more eager for a Nost lynch on D3. There was no reason for either me or Emp to not jump on that lynch. I can't speak for Emp, but had I been scum, I would've assuredly been here to make sure a lynch went through... because had that lynch gone through, along with another town lynch yesterday, the game would be over.

I went through the players that these two replaced, Senjai and theamateur, and I found little to hang your hat on. Senjai does do that thing where he throws a little suspicion at C+B (F-16) early on that always rubs me the wrong way, but it's nothing serious in the greater context of his activity, I think.

One thing I love about VCA is it puts everyone on the same level. One person, one vote. Despite whatever finagling they can concoct to make themselves look better or worse, a vote is a vote is a vote. It's important and has real, quantifiable meaning in the endgame. GB did well to push F-16 like they did, but they're also in compromising situations with these lynches. Caught with their hands in the cookie jar one too many times. Them finding me scum at the last minute because I didn't join the D3 wagon is, while logical prior to Nost's flip, is flipped on its head that we know Nost is town. As I made it clear before, I have to be wrong on one of my town reads between GB, Emp, and ArcAngel. I do not see enough evidence that would persuade me to vote ArcAngel today. VCA goes a long way in helping me eliminate N as our best shot at hitting scum... I think the choice today needs to be between Emp and GB, and I think that choice is GB.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: First

off

Additionally, I agree with GB that we should not vote until the mass claim has finished. I am adhering to that.

[RedCoyote]

It's very possible that a number of things could've happened yesterday. 4nx didn't necessarily visit anyone. Additionally, he could've visited someone he already knew of to be safe and been shot normally. I was also under the impression that there was an odd-night Vig, but it's still possible there's something like a three-shot Vig, although unlikely. The odds on favorite right now is that there is an SK and scum left. The fact remains that I am objectively the worst choice for lynch today given that, one, I have something that can be proven, and two, that the only clear thing we can take away from 4nx is that he definitely would not have visited me yesterday. No other player can make that claim.

---

RC knew his only chance today was pushing against us and a fuckload of what he just said is literally blatant bullshit. In the middle of a family gathering though so I'll elaborate on it all in a little bit, probably an hour or two.

Before getting into any of the more meaty segments, I want to start by saying this sort of tone sounds very odd coming from Reg. I don't know if any of you have the same experience playing with him that I do, but I do know that he's pretty cool, collected, and level-headed. This sort of over-the-top outburst is generally not what I'd expect from him. So, I mean, right off the bat (and it's not every really right off the bat given that I've had these feelings through a lot of the game as he was trying to run up F-16 but I never really acted on them so there's no evidence I can point to for that), he's coming on too strong and too emotional. This is not what I'd expect of townReg.

Also reading either us or F-16 or literally anything that's happened in this game should make it abundantly obvious that we're town.

You're not incapable of bussing, Reg. Nice try. That said, I'm not even sold you were bussing. My case doesn't rely on you being Mafia (like yours against me does). I think you could be either scum or an SK (although it's more likely you're the former... it doesn't make as much sense for you to shoot F-16 as SK, I think, but a case can be made).

As to your case. There's little I can address with regard to C+B and F-16. They had their interactions with me. I have no control over what they may or may not have said, just as GB has no control over Senjai's attempts at distancing from G+B that I pointed out in posts 163 and 256. So, I mean, that's definitely a wash.

As to my interactions with F-16, he was pretty middle-of-the-road with me. I think that much is apparent. GB is trying to make it all out like I was planning some elaborate scheme to keep F-16 at just the perfect distance, but the truth is never that complicated. I have no problems bussing my teammates, and I have no problems agreeing with my teammates in scum games. I don't need, nor do I try, to tiptoe around them. The truth is, I always had bigger suspects than him, and around the time that I was really committed to actually pushing for his lynch, he claimed a Cop. That claim seemed very reasonable to me, and I made it clear earlier that I expected this town would have more power than had already been revealed. I was reluctant to hammer based on that. I made my reservations of that known. If anything, I was worried GB was being a little "too sure" that F-16 was scum.

In any case, GB's case can be broken down into two things: what others have had to say about me (which Senjai/F-16 are just as guilty of), and that F-16 and I have had a massive conspiracy going on this whole game. I can assure you that this just isn't the case. I don't do scum half-assed, as GB would suggest here. I'm very deliberate and calculating, not wishy-washy. I have had trouble reading F-16 in previous games. I just finished a game where I was wrong when I called him scum very fervently. I'm still smarting from that game a bit. Right or wrong, it makes me more reluctant to push on F-16. This is Occum's Razor at work, folks. This is not a performance I would turn in with F-16 as my partner... but GB's arguments get worse from here.

there was pretty obviously no intention of "drawing a night kill" but rather an attempt to save your own ass from a lynch by softing a PR.

That happened, sure, but this is a red herring. I have consistently hinted at having a power, but that was just my most blatant move. I also laid it out there about having additional investigative roles. I have always wanted myself associated with scum thinking that I had a power. I did a poor job apparently, but it doesn't make it any less true.

His reaction at the end of the last day phase also seems to come from the perspective of someone who knows our alignment.

You're reading way too much into it for your own benefit. Again, I can point out examples in his ISO of him calling you, Emp, and N town. The only person that I think 4nx really supported strongly throughout the game was plan B. Hell, just reading his last two posts you can tell that 4nx was frustrated with you and the way you'd been going about the game. It definitely does not give the impression that he was certain of GB as town:

• really... now... ? if things don't go your way, you have a tantrum...

  
  

  seriously fuck that noise reg, i wanted to hammer nost a week ago and waited paitently because you asked. i even took the time to write out a fucking wall because you asked. and now you tell me to fuck off and say you're not going to play because we might've lynched wrong...

As frustrated as he was with you, he would've bit his tongue here. This is not the last impression a Weak Doctor wants to give off of one of their confirmeds.

---

I think VCA can be useful, but I'm not sure sure when we haven't actually lynched any mafia.

Fair enough. The fact of the matter is, between Emp and GB, those two are in compromising positions in our lynch wagons. Moreso than either you, me, or ArcAngel. I think we should lynch one of them.

I'm not sure why a serial killer would be so blatant. If he's sk, he could have very easily claimed vig; I mean, if he is, he's shot two mafia and at least one highly-suspected/null town.

As WIFOMy as it is, I really wouldn't. I actually think the SK was on the money doing what he did. I think the only reason he broke it up was because he must've read F-16 as town, which I surely did not (whereas Emp did).

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: and it's not

even

really right off the bat

I wonder if I have some mild dyslexia or something for all the times I mistype words when thinking too fast.

[RedCoyote]

Am here, what do you want to know?

We're massclaiming. Please claim your role in your next post.

What is yours and did others do it as well?

I just wish there was just some way we could effectively communicate with one another about stuff like this. If only there was some sort of, like, invention where players could gather and reveal these sort of things. Like if there was a public Internet forum with these individual comments called posts from each of the players... and between one another we could... read them?

[RedCoyote]

Sorry, I am still here if I haven't been replaced yet.

[RedCoyote]

I'll leave that decision up to the Mod.

[RedCoyote]

I will say that GB raises a very good point against Arc that I hadn't previously considered at all, frankly. As much as it pains me to call down my strongest townread in Plan B, that's about par for the course in this game.

Emp, why would I softclaim as SK?

[RedCoyote]

Arc, if you dislike "open card play" (which is so completely out of context and an erroneous way at looking at this game), why then are you not scumhunting based on what people are saying instead? Do you think I make solid arguments? GB?

[RedCoyote]

Short time until deadline. I don't see momentum behind either of the lynches I'd really support. Either the heads in GB are grossly overestimating my skill level, cannot read me as well as I would've guessed they'd been able to, or are scum.

You weren't 'softclaiming' on purpose.

You know damn well that you're overthinking this. This argument is both lazy and grasping at straws. Of course my softclaim is going to coincide with me being in danger. Otherwise it's completely out of place. Additionally, I've pointed out multiple instances of me crumbing my role.

Vote: ArcAngel9

Based on opportunity and GB's point about our Roleblocker. My instinct tells me that this isn't right, but I'm also not prepared to defend this slot given the context of the game. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[RedCoyote]

Bah, I tried my best. Sorry to the town. I may have some hecklers in the peanut gallery for lying, but I honestly thought I would be able to garner a little more sympathy with a BP claim than with a VT claim. I didn't expect both GB and Emp to turn on me. I thought about confessing, but this is kind of one of those all-in moves. I definitely would've confessed had a survived another day. In any case, whomever wins... well played. I basically thought everyone surviving here was town (sans N, but I don't think he's scum anymore).

I'm rooting for the SK and the Mafia to shoot each other tonight!

[RedCoyote]

Good job, Emp. This was a strange game. I could never really get a good feel for the scum roles. I wish we wouldn't have lost Plan B. I also wish I wouldn't have come down against GB.

But most of all I wish I would've remembered my role and used it to the town's advantage. Believe it or not, this is, like, the third time I've forgotten my role as town. As I said in the QT, it's unacceptable and I feel really bad for it.

Good job to the Mod. The setup seemed very balanced. Thanks to the replacements for coming in. This is one of the few games I've never seen Empking get lynched, and of course he's the SK!