NY 160: Terrible Melodrama Mafia (Game Over)

[DoomYoshi]

How useful will you be for town as a sheep throughout the game?

If you are town, wouldn't you want a second vote?

Overall, you place a lot of emphasis on meta. I disagree that meta helps because most players are actively trying to be aware of their own meta and fix it. However, this is merely a difference of opinion.

Demon, why vote nero cain?

[DoomYoshi]

i would say mre piggy is probably nervous town than scrum but so far there really has not been enough to say either way with any sort of uncertainty

In addition to the other question... why would town have a reason to be nervous? Wouldn't you agree that someone who is nervous during page 2 scum?
You also never answered 4nxiety's question.

VOTE: jacob

Curious timing, demon. Are you my

alt

mother?

[DoomYoshi]

JacobSavage wrote:VOTE: Senjai Obv Chainsaw, you obnoxious teenager

If you thought Senjai was attacking Toonfighter to defend Piggygal then you must've thought both of them did something scummy at the time? Or was that not a serious comment?

This question.

[DoomYoshi]

um, derp, yes you did answer it. What do you think of the last chainsaw accusation (by Toon Fighter)?

N, what's with the no vote? What do

you

think of the Senjai wagon?

I'm sorry >.< I have nothing left to say

Nothing at all? Senjai gave some reads, does this make him scum?

[DoomYoshi]

Hey, I've got comapny over this weekend, so sorry about vanishing.

Some thoughts: Senjai reminds me a lot of myself (outspoken on many fundamental mafia ideas).

However, he is still wrong and I almost spurted coffee on myself when I read:

Dont pick at my nomenclature NC. You're just raging right now. I think the pressure is getting to you. Now your saying you are agressing me because of my join date, I'm totally LOVING YOUR AD HOMINEM ATTACKS. Makes you so reputable. Using join date as an excuse in argument = scummy, keep your red herring fallacies away from me.

Clearly, the pressure is getting to NC lol.

I am not so sold on nero scum (but I understand your case, just don't agree with it). Piggy and Jacob I can easily see though. If Jacob flips scum, I will consider more seriously nero (not saying that's a scum or town read, just that I will think about it more).

Nero, I also want to know your answer to Plan B's question to you. Are you referring to:

senjai looks more like naive town.

If so, I would bet money on the fact that 4nxi3ty can back this statement up in a way that makes sense.

Another point on JS:

4nxi3ty (Possibly Scum)
1. Late to Party, Misunderstanding RVS (#51)
2. Looking for someone to start a bandwagon(?) (#64)
3. Refusal to move vote, not that scummy (#88)

1. Waht? Da Fuq?
2. OMG
3. srsly?

Sorry, JS, but this is laughably horrendous. There are more problems but this is a trifecta of I can't understand how a goes to b.

Why are you still voting Senjai? He is practically oozing town at this point. He may be an amazing scum player, but we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

Theamateur's hop onto this wagon seems opportunistic (compared to the other 3, not compared to any particular standard).

[DoomYoshi]

I don't feel bad.

I actually understand what you mean about C+B, there is something fishy there. You are now the second person to accuse C+B of being opportunistic though. I wonder if there is something to that. Let me mull on it. It's possible that both of you read between the lines the same way and came to the same (seemingly false) conclusion. However, it is unlikely. Mulling = finished. There is nothing to this.

I don't have much else to say until Piggy replies to some things. After that, I imagine there will be another burst of activity.

[DoomYoshi]

Yeah, let's kill the piggy. Serioustime now.

Well pig has asked for 1 extra day. Considering there is still a missing player that seems fair. Ask me again in the morning.

[DoomYoshi]

EBWOP:Piggy has a collection of the most infrequent and IIOA poseters on her wagon in the game**

Neither of those are actual points.

Also, we find out a lot about C+B.

Let's just say for a second you are 100% correct. Lynching JS lets us know about Nero.
However, by that same logic, lynching piggy lets us know about C+B, but also (to a lesser extent) JS.

So who would you rather have lynch info on? A player who posts a lot (so you already have a lot of information) or a person who posts little (so you have little information. For exactly the reasons you listed, I am considering switching. This is why on early nights I always direct cop investigations toward the players who I know the least about, instead of at the most likely scum.

Now, I won't be able to give a detailed contrast because JS hasn't said anything remotely towny. But neither has Piggy.

The Cletus BW is for much of the same reasons the late-move piggy wagon is for (as far as I can tell). Does that narrow it down TF?

[DoomYoshi]

The Cletus BW is for much of the same reasons the late-move piggy wagon is for (as far as I can tell). Does that narrow it down TF?

Actually, this doesn't make sense. C+B just rubbed people the wrong way, I think.

[DoomYoshi]

Also, we find out a lot about C+B.

Let's just say for a second you are 100% correct. Lynching JS lets us know about Nero.
However, by that same logic, lynching piggy lets us know about C+B, but also (to a lesser extent) JS.

What would we find out about C+B by lynching Piggy?

We would find some clues to answer this question:

C+B, why are you trying to tie piggy to jacob before a flip?

prodded.
Will reread the thread. Still think Js> piggy

Is this before or after reread? Are you caught up to date? Curious all-around answer.

Thanks for making me recall UT Senjai. I did an ISO. Not good.

With this vote, piggy is at

L-1

.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Piggy

The Anxiety scumread gets dropped entirely (town tend to at least address gut reads, they don't tend to ignore them).

I didn't even notice that. Curious.

[DoomYoshi]

piggy i suggest you claim or give last reads.

if i die tonight i would suspect doom yoshi.

waht. obvfish = obv?

Nero's asshat factor is clouding my read on him, and I wish he would stop.

Alright, N and RedCoyote, one of you's going to help me and bus your buddy. RC, since I like you, I'll give you first shot (and you've already publically called him out, so you're halfway there).

VOTE: N

This will be rich.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JS

I'm not sold on the towniness here.

[DoomYoshi]

Not that I know of. I'm not that big of a crumber because I rarely get PRs

Crumbs suck balls anyways. That is your best answer all day.

[DoomYoshi]

I didn't say rolefishing, DC.

I said "fishing", although the correct term seems to be "throwing out random shit and seeing what sticks". 4nxiety seemed to pick a totally random player to call scummy. Ergo, fishing for a scummy response. I guess it's an older pre-internet usage of the phrase, but it's closely related to phishing, at least in etymological origin. You have to pay attention at the meetings Dad.

[DoomYoshi]

Nero's play does seem off (compared to our last game together). This is why getting invested in a game is a bad thing. I can't tell what Nero actually thinks about much.... Except that he doesn't like senjai on a personal level. Is that the same as waffling? This is the better of the two wagons.

N is a total noob, so I am not surprised he looks scummy.

Senjai, if a JS flip tells us about NC, does a NC flip work reverse?

He should take mine. I don't care for that post, and I don't know why DY had to quote you when he was voting JS. It immediately makes it look like he's trying to defend N over the tiniest bit of pressure.

The post in question had 3 seperate points. Point a was a reply to anxiety (which was misinterpreted by DC), point b was a comment on DC's proposal. I was looking forward to the development of that storyline. Point c was my vote, off the claimed watcher onto my default position. Since the same post was misinterpreted twice, I suppose I will slow down my thought process for everyone.

[DoomYoshi]

I have to catch up in this game and will do so today. I see that Piggy claimed Watcher... I think it is imperative she claim results first thing tomorrow because Watcher can be easy to fake and I don't want to give her any help.

oh hey I got prodded

my compooper has been on the fritz, so I'll catch up with this game today

Am I the only one waiting on these catch ups?

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, Plan B, but if JS flips scum, I'm going to fos you hardcore.

So I reread N and Nero Cain again. I know I just said NC was the better wagon, but I've changed my mind. N hasn't really said much of anything, except for the awkward call out of Cletus. I am still watching NC though, I want to see how he reacts now that he has time to calm down.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: N

[DoomYoshi]

Am I the only one that read his post as a big fence sit on piggy?

-snip-

Vote:piggy

If it’s a scum slot then there’s no reason to trust here results so if she flips scum then I bet she has some buddies in the group saying “let her live.”

a) I have no reason to vote for piggy at the moment. Is she scummy? Yeah. Can I see her actions come from town power? Yeah. If she's scum does it hurt to let her live one night and get results that, if she does flip town, can possibly help us? Nope. Not to mention if she's town scum have to try killing her because otherwise she can get results and if we're eventually lynching her anyway, well...

b) "IF SHE'S SCUM THEN HER RESULTS ARE FAKE". Wow, we have the new Paragon here, guys.

I don't necessarily agree with this. She could be a scum watcher, and still give real results. Or scum willing to bus.

[DoomYoshi]

Not sure I understand.

How is it that you differentiate Senjai as town or as scum? I am pretty sure he is town. Also, how is it even possible to get a read of any kind on UT? He hasn't said anything...

@adorkable: parsimony is so twentieth century. That shit has ruined science for long enough. I don't intend to let it ruin my mafia games now too.

[DoomYoshi]

DC, the toxic wagon is one you started. Pig is still scum.

[DoomYoshi]

@4nxiety: sometime before 222? Looking for something scummy to jump on.

@adork: no reasons given, I haven't thought much of it. Literally half the game has called me scum, and in every game since I joined MS I have had a day 1 wagon, so if the time comes where its a wagon, i will worry about who thinks i'm scummy and why, but not before.

What I am more worried about is GB's town read on me, and just generally the overall reads. They seem to all be based on "extra-game" evidence. If it's not meta, they are using post times and DV's setup fetishes. However, if there is more than one way to skin a cat, as long as I can see the cat's innards, I don't care. If you really want my meta, you will have to go outside MS. I have used the same username since '02, and changed my avatar in '09, so I'm not hard to find.

UT: so you are purposely lurking to avoid drawing attention to yourself? That is pretty self-preservationist, so if you end up being something like a vig, I will just assume you are SK, and act accordingly.

So, wtf happened to Senjai? This game feels surreal without him posting and now a replacement.

@mod:

you still have Cletus and Brandine in the vote count.

Goddamit. I remembered somebody saying the Piggy wagon was bad because of the timing of it. Then I went back and read up to the claim and saw no such comments. However, I did notice a few things.
Both C+B, as well as UT never unvoted Piggy. Now in UT's case, this means he actively supports the lynch, we will have to see what F-16's approach is, but C+B did acknowledge the watcher claim.
The recent rash of voting on Piggy was entirely (and not surprisingly) catalyzed by a combination of Nero Cain's claim and subsequent vote (on Pig). 4nxiety's vote switched wagons directly. I am still trying to figure out what this means, but it seems like an opportunistic as hell wagon. However, I will hammer Pig if/when we come to that. I am almost positive it was a scum fakeclaim. Which means we are dealing with a giant bus (scum realizing they need to kill off the toxic members) or 2 scum factions.

Pig, other than AtE/capslock reasons, why do you say the claim is fake?