Yet Another Dance of the Title Fairy: Change Up

[esuriospiritus]

Well, that's one way to shut them up.

Re-Nomming Pie for

Except When He Does...

because people still say that around him all the time.

(Also tempted to joke-nom him for

Grandma

instead but )

[esuriospiritus]

I am entirely too lazy right now to find places where it's been said on the site, but I know that it occasionally is.

/shrug

[esuriospiritus]

ahahaha this post.

I'm really not gonna push it that hard, but a bunch of other scummers and I discussed re-nomming him a while ago and I wanted to see who would actually do it if I made the first move/what people would say about it.

My personal opinion is that I feel like it's a scummer joke that will likely follow him around regardless of whether or not he officially has a title for it, it's just that him also having the title would make it feel more... complete? IDK, that's not really the word I want to use, but I'm tired and not expressing myself well.

I'd like to see what other people (esp. the people who originally nominated him) have to say about it now.

[esuriospiritus]

k I just got not-lazy enough to do some detective work and excluding the mentions that had to do with pie but was exclusively discussion of whether or not to give him the title, we have:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4070007
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4407310
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4525844 (just from that post alone it might not be clear that I was talking about Pie, but I was)

Also Google pretty obviously isn't picking up all pages of all threads or something, because not only did it miss my post in No-Context Quotes but it also entirely missed the original discussion of his title in the old-old-old title thread (although I think that got eaten in one of our crashes -- which also raises the point that there may have been some references that were wiped out in November...? 2011 to March...? 2012 in that big crash <_<), so it's possible there's more references than this that are floating around in limbo somewhere.

At any rate, 2 of those 3 posts were made within the last three months despite the fact that he was originally nominated January 2012...? so I feel like it's safe to say that the phrase in relation to Pie does have at least some staying power even just on the site itself, and that's not even including any in-person/skype/League of Legends/whatthefuckever references that happen even more.

tl;dr:

factchecking -- there

are

recent references on the site and there were probably more that were eaten in our various crashes over the last year, they're just not overly frequently. /shrug

[esuriospiritus]

I'd

2nd

that, too. He's a troll-y, cheeky scumfuck.

Only issue with that is, other than in the most recent Always On marathon game, I feel like most of those incidences are also in person so if that's an issue for the title I nommed then it's probably also an issue with this.

It's possible someone else can think of more on-site games where he did this...?

edit: I feel like the latter title you nommed is slightly better than the former, for the record. The former just seems like it could be more forgetfulness...? which isn't

usually

why he says that I don't think.

[esuriospiritus]

Yeah, ani, I don't think he does.

Pie still plays games onsite it's just that it's usually under our hydra now but yeah, neither of us play thaaaaaat much. Just a little.

[esuriospiritus]

I feel like TBM is suggesting that the joke be beaten into the ground a la Goddammit (I still like the title, but yeah, we kind of overused that for a while to get it to be a title...) before it can become a title, which I'm pretty sure isn't what anyone wants...

It's obviously been "discussed to death" because there are people that still really like it a year later; I'm pretty sure there are titles that have been

actually

given out that that people would be just meh about a year later if it was being brought back into consideration. But whatevs. I really don't understand why titles are such serious business here in the first place and there are always going to be titles I think are a good idea that the various fairies don't agree with so /shrug

It was worth a shot.

(PS: Nexus, I understand you have your opinion, but you can state it without being a jerk about it.)

[esuriospiritus]

Hah, sure.

Nth

[esuriospiritus]

Well, it definitely is in person.

The problem with the title is therefore that in-person scummer stuff isn't "good enough" for a title as things stand currently.

[esuriospiritus]

Thank you, Tierce, for saying what I was thinking but wording it better than I would have.

[esuriospiritus]

I just learned a word.

[esuriospiritus]

I don't really think either one of these are any good.

[esuriospiritus]

As someone who's met MattP in person, I kind of feel like "Relax, I got this" fits him better than "Dr. Feelgood", Mina... but maybe not (just) for the reason other people are stating. When we played in Always On: Reckoning, he almost won as scum by basically just seeming like he was a town leader and had everything under control. It was only after everything seemed to be working out a little

too

conveniently that I started arguing that he was scum, so I definitely see "relax, I got this" and think of the way he played in that game.

I'd nth it but I think it has enough nominations by now and people are mostly deciding on punctuation...? idk, I kind of skim this thread and randomly decided I needed to weigh in probably a few pages after it was necessary.

[esuriospiritus]

I kind of feel like all of these TBM titles are awful, but I really don't have any better suggestions to contribute.

[esuriospiritus]

Not site-related.

Won't go through (or we have a serious favoritism issue on our hands).

[esuriospiritus]

Hey, you can always try to push for the rule to be changed if you don't like it. I happen to think it's a pretty silly arbitrary line (also, contradicting precedent ^) and anything that involves multiple scummers in any capacity should be up for consideration, but I'm just one person.

If you guys want to try to get it changed, you have my support.

alternatively, force "with us" as a meme on the forum itself until buttons acknowledges it. <_< dumb way to get it done, but if you want to work within the rules instead of changing them...

[esuriospiritus]

thus the alternative option. it's unfunny and completely inorganic that way, of course, I'm just saying if people

really

want patrick to get that particular title (or a similar title based on the same non-forum things), the only way to do it is a.) campaign to get the rule changed b.) run the meme into the ground on the forums for a while, probably annoying anyone not personally invested in getting patrick the title in the process

Hell, Buttons practically encouraged it when discussing the Pie title, even. Doesn't make it any less of a shitastic, awful way of going about things, I'm just saying the option's there if people are that desperate.

I kind of doubt anyone cares that much though so we're probably just going back to having a dead title thread for a while.

[esuriospiritus]

Wasn't saying we did. But I think it's kinda sad to see it be dead for weeks/months at a time too, y'know?

I'm also not saying that this would change if the rule I'm bitching about changed, because I don't think it would. I think we'd get a sudden influx of title suggestions from scumchatters/LoL players/whatever and then once all those were discussed and decided on, we'd be back to a slow or nonexistent pace same as before. But we'd get to see some more fun ideas for a little while that are only 'discredited' by existing amongst scummers off-site, and I'd really like to see that happen. I can think of a few titles I'd suggest for my fellow LoL-playing scummers, for sure, and I'm sure others are holding back great title ideas for the same reason.

tl;dr rule still dumb please change it

[esuriospiritus]

but I don't think it's an absolute necessity that all titles be allowed, just because some people like them.

...but this really isn't what I'm saying. I want to see one rule changed. One. And only because I think the community has grown beyond the bounds of the forum and I feel very strongly that we should be acknowledging that

on

the forum as it's essentially The Place Where It All Began for a lot of people and has since grown to be much, much more. For one thing, I don't exactly go on a ton of niche hobby sites, but I'm pretty sure we're more dedicated than most to meeting our fellow hobbyists in person. The rule is outdated and needs changing in order to properly reflect how the community interacts, because these titles are

for

the community... aren't they?

If I just wanted all titles to be allowed, I'd be petitioning to not have a title fairy at all and let us all set our own titles. I don't really see anything

wrong

with a forum operating like that per se, but it's not our forum. Our forum decided that we wanted to make titling people a community ordeal, so it's kind of a big deal when rules get

in the way

of the community when the rules

should

be there to help us express ourselves without things becoming too unruly.

I don't know. This whole Title Fairy thing is just too subjective for "rules" like that.

Buttons does his thing, and he's pretty much the only opinion that matters.

Uh,

hello

. It's Title Fairy, not Title Dictator. He's said himself something along the lines of how he's pretty much just here to exact the will of the community.

And overall the vast majority of people are completely fine with stuff how it is right now.

Or maybe they've just been sufficiently convinced that nothing is going to change. Patrick's suggested title isn't the first time someone has suggested a title for scummer-related stuff that's not on the forum itself, and it won't be the last. The logical conclusion here is that people have a desire to have that particular rule changed (or they wouldn't suggest these titles in the first place), but are too apathetic/busy/whatever to fight for it.

[esuriospiritus]

despite the fact that singer was trying to get a title a while back along these parameters and it got shut down?

huh. okay, well there's one.

Maybe you can explain to me what you like about it? I'm open to being convinced that it's

not

a stupid rule, it would just... take more and better points than the ones I've already stated.

I seem to vaguely recall thinking it was an okay rule at some point but my opinion has changed as I've gotten more actually

involved

in the community as opposed to just kind of existing here.

[esuriospiritus]

Is that the only reason though? Because we have a wiki page that explains titles, so if having a link is an issue, I think that'd be covered regardless.

I think I've also seen 'people being left out of the loop' as an argument for keeping the rule, but frankly even if I have a link and can see the posts where a title started I'm still missing out by not being involved at the time. I'm pretty sure "goddamnit kdowns" isn't nearly as funny to anyone who just read through Always On and didn't experience it themselves, and that's as it should be imo. There's nothing keeping anyone from interacting with anyone else in the community and getting in on these things except time (and in the case of in-person meets, money).

[esuriospiritus]

well when you put it like that, how can I possibly argue?

[esuriospiritus]

yeah ok.

If I can't even get a 'why' I'm really not going to listen. This isn't kindergarten and you're not my mom; "because I said so" isn't good enough.

[esuriospiritus]

We should appeal to Anix.

He is the supreme dictator, after all.

[esuriospiritus]

PS: Looked at some discussion from one of the older threads. I forgot about this but I was yelling about this back in July of last year, before I'd even been to scumhaus (albeit by about a week) and before I gave a shit about whether or not Pie had a title (tbh it's still not that big a deal; I'm arguing for something bigger than just that).

Quadz appears to have been on the opposite side of the issue at the time, when singer was being nommed for a real-life title. Quadz, if you could take the time to elaborate on what made you change your mind, I'd appreciate it.

[esuriospiritus]

So instead of Joy, we should start assigning them the other six deadly sins. then they can all be included!

[esuriospiritus]

+1 Adrnin

[esuriospiritus]

nominate kanyeknowsbest for "fast and fiurious"

did i ever mention tht i rly like this title?

I actually fell for this last night and didn't realize my mistake until now.

........

you quoting this made me realize i fell for it

[esuriospiritus]

unnecessary 8th cuz I really wanna be on this train

choo chooooo

[esuriospiritus]

I feel like the riff off the previous title is the best part of the proposed new title, so I'm inclined to say it should be the first option. But if Reck has a strong preference one way or the other, that probably trumps aesthetic concerns.

[esuriospiritus]

Parama has refused titles like a kajillion times already.

[esuriospiritus]

Hmmm, doe Mina it might be entertaining to do something along the lines of

Evil Laugh

because she was known for giggling a lot f2f, but people also underestimate her ability to play scum so she had some really good scum wins where no one suspected her. Not sure where Id go with that.

Probably bad, but

Trojan Butterfly

?

[esuriospiritus]

avatar-based titles aren't a thing the title fairy is cool with, iirc

Though, to be fair, she does compare herself to a butterfly.

Also, I'm a butterfly because I set buildings on fire and no one suspects me afterwards, not because I particularly look like one.

I don't know Mina that well, but sounds to me like the butterfly in the avatar is the result of her already identifying with a butterfly (so it would still fit if she changed her avatar to something else).

[esuriospiritus]

something something RL-based titles never getting approved something

[esuriospiritus]

it's not RL-based

it's literally that BRO talks all the time about how he knows people who work at riot

oh ok my bad then

I'm never in the LoL thread anymore and if he's mentioned it anywhere else, I haven't seen it

[esuriospiritus]

yeahhhhh I'm gonna go ahead and anti-nominate wgeurts on the basis that we shouldn't be giving any incentive for people to come in here and beg for a title.

Also the nominated title isn't even good. Unless I'm missing something it's just a name-based pun? So yeah, not exactly a quality title.

[esuriospiritus]

just making sure. I've decided to be the resident mafiascum grump today so I'm taking it upon myself to be super serious about everything

until I get bored of it probably within the next ten minutes.

[esuriospiritus]

I think because "sheets of ice" is a phrase so it's slightly more clever I guess, but there's still the issue that they're relying on a username pun.

I mean if we want to start doing those then fine, that's great (and maybe the bar for titles is too high anyway) but let's at least be cognizant that it might open the floodgates for more username pun noms.

(I'll be taking that grump baton back now, tyvm)

[esuriospiritus]

Oh yeah they're also both bad titles.

I don't disagree, but I also think I might just hate all titles forever and am thus biased. :/ Only title nom I've genuinely liked since returning from hiatus however long ago was the updated title for Reck, and because of its nature as an "update" I question if that one even counts.

I didn't even like the Trojan Butterfly nom for Mina that much and I was the one who suggested it.

[esuriospiritus]

noooo, I actually like Skrew's title :/

[esuriospiritus]

to be fair I think if most of us were working the kind of shifts buttons does, we wouldn't pay much attention to the internet, either