Open 459: There is a New Scum in Town. Game Over Town Wins!

[borkjerfkin]

Fe
uctriton00
borkjerfkin
Fizz

Why did you confirm out of thread?

Why not?

[borkjerfkin]

Catching up this morning, haven't read anything yet.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Aether
Town has no reason to look at/compare the VT and Goon PMs. Scum Goon does.

I don't really get the logic here; I think it's pretty damn obvious what a VT and what a Mafia Goon do.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Kmd
Majiffy this is a much better vote than Aether, who is a notoriously noisy D1 player.

All this crap against Fizz is super unreliable for someone in their first game and Kmd is trying to gloss over that.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not reading that as a slip, no.

[borkjerfkin]

@Majiffy -- sorry I can't get behind the "paying attention to role PMs = scum" premise, and although Aether is mostly trolling around, he does this

every game

and you're kind of feeding the fire here. Aether is null.

VOTE: Breakfast
#116 is the illusion of a reaction test and an awkward way to hop on this wagon. Does anyone see an answer that Aether would've given that would've had Breakfast backing off? Especially since the one he gave is likely the truth of it?

[borkjerfkin]

Also Mala seems town.

[borkjerfkin]

[borkjerfkin]

He was in Newbie 1294 (town) where got modkilled for cheating
He was in Newbie 1301 (town) where he got modkilled and the game thrown for cheating

[borkjerfkin]

tryharding

What's the scum motivation for doing what you're accusing kmd of doing (which honestly, I'm not even sure what that is?)

I'm not liking Fe right now, for the same reasons as Number Six isn't liking him.

Kmd has moved into murky null territory -- #190, #194 (mostly #194) are town things. I can't read Majiffy either; I disagree with pretty much everything he's said this game and that's rare. #221 is ?

Mollie, Mala are fine. NS (I don't think I've ever seen a obvfake [Dayaction] from scum), LS, 6 are probably fine.

Fizz isn't a bad wagon (it's miles better than Aether was) but I'm always really cautious when trying to make newbie reads, so in regards to kmd #214 -- this is the source of my hesitation, personally.

Breakfast is scummy.

[borkjerfkin]

That wasn't really Mollie's point though -- the point was that Majiffy's #210 seems to indicate that Aether was more a policy lynch than that thing about "reading role PMs => scum" which seems contradictory.

[borkjerfkin]

Also:

Policy lynches to me are considered scummy.
Sometimes they are justified, but other times they are just unfair.

These two sentences don't seem to make sense together.

[borkjerfkin]

Sure. That's more a meta case than a PL but I see no need to argue semantics.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork - Why did you switch your vote from Kmd to Breakfast? Also, why did you go from defending fizz to saying that Fizz isn't a bad wagon?

Breakfast is scummier than Kmd -- pretty much for 116 and 169. 116 parrots a dubious accusation from Majiffy to hop on Aether, and 169 gives the impression that there's nothing Aether could've said that would have let him off the hook.

#119 is not a defense of Fizz, it is an indictment of Kmd, who I think has gotten better since I made that post. Fizz hasn't done anything since except avoid the thread and the little bit of IIoA in #160.





Willing to trust Majiffy until I see what this italics business is about. What's wrong with LS though?

[borkjerfkin]

Well, he pretty much HAS to explain it at some point or be lynched, so we'll wait for that to happen.

[borkjerfkin]

Because he was candid and it's a plausible explanation. What were you looking for?

[borkjerfkin]

What did you get from Mollie's reaction?

[borkjerfkin]

@LS -- I was saying that there is a plausible (dare I say likely) explanation for Fizz's nervousness other than that he must be scum. That's not an endorsement of Fizztown, it's just something that Kmd jumped on way too quickly early game.

@Breakfast -- yes, that answer makes perfect sense from an outside party trying to analyze and judge what Aether did. However, I would not expect Aether to answer "Why did you do X" with "X isn't scummy in fact here's some other dude doing X and he was town". This just shows me that you're not thinking about what a true town response to that question is.

[borkjerfkin]

lol, you.

I am not quite sold on a kmd lynch. some of his posts have come across as really townish. what do you think of breakfast and fe. they both pinged for me but I am going to do a reread in iso and then back in the thread for context.

also what about nobody special. he is super followy and just...odd. he isn't really scumhunting, it kind of looks like he is coasting other than his big who he wants to see dead post.

That's honestly pretty typical for NS.

[borkjerfkin]

I also think that 190 would've been a convenient way to jump off Fizz since he was getting a lot of heat for it. I don't think scum is as likely to have jumped right back on him like he did.

[borkjerfkin]

Dude this isn't terribly hard to understand. Being nervous is not a scumtell. End of point.

[borkjerfkin]

My gripes about Fizz are his providing no content save explanations of previous actions, and general thread avoidance.

[borkjerfkin]

prod dodge. I've got company until later tonight.

[borkjerfkin]

@Rach -- sorry for your loss

[borkjerfkin]

I don't like Majiffy #279 -- this seems like an admission that it's plausible that Kmd genuinely misinterpreted Fizz's nervousness. Why is Kmd scum for doing this? This is some serious confirmation bias if you're town. I have pretty much 0 interest in a Kmd lynch today anymore.
@Majiffy -- you mentioned LastSurvivor was a good lynch. Do you still feel that way, and if so, why?

Uct #280 is buddying Mala. In fact lots of people are calling Mala town after I did it in #171. I did this because she shut down the (i believe unintentional) rolefishing that Mollie did in ~#124. Outside of that her play is kinda worrying me at this point because she's playing very reactively and opaquely. Do others disagree? Why?
Regarding Uct #318 -- explain why replacing out under pressure is a scumtell.

#294 from Fizz at least contains some analysis (good), but I'm worried he's parroting my reads (he even mentions Mala and Mollie in the same sentence, which I also did.)

penguin #316 is a good post and kind of speaks to NS trying to blend in.

In fact NS is just looking worse to me. Wagon hop in #220 makes no sense if he's seriously convinced Fizz is scum (reread-edit -- penguin already pointed this out, but I'd like to add that Fizz had a sizable wagon himself at that point so it's even more suspicious.) I don't see any motivation behind #289 other than to possibly muddy the situation -- there's no conclusion drawn here. #307 is exactly what I'd expect him to say re: dayvig reaction test as either alignment and I'll agree that Mollie looks town from it.

I can't really get inside the director's head at all. Definitely not seeing why #308 should be some back breaking straw. My gut on director, however, is town, based on previous play with him.

Nothing new to say about Breakfast other than that

he needs a serious prod to the face.

He's been active elsewhere.

[borkjerfkin]

@Mala -- Who is scum? I've gotten very little impression of that from your posting this game.

also before I forget:

V/LA Wed-Sat this week.

[borkjerfkin]

@Mollie -- Your line of questioning had the potential to give people information about roles rather than just alignment. That's all I meant and I think you're overreacting given that I'm not trying to paint you as scummy for doing it.

[borkjerfkin]

Ok Mollie is pretty much definite town; I don't want to talk about the original line of questioning, though.

[borkjerfkin]

@Majiffy -- I would expect such a post to be accompanied by an unvote. The fact that you haven't is making it seem like you don't want to think you're wrong. Is he still your top scumread?

[borkjerfkin]

I drank

[borkjerfkin]

hey all, back, kinda sick, will catch up tomm.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Fizz

Pings me as scummier than Fe and I'm more convinced this wagon is town driven than I am about the Fe wagon.

[borkjerfkin]

randomly ISOing borker and saw a question addressed to me:

Requesting to replace out is a chance to get away from your scum games. Basically when you get into a future game, someone can say "can you link me to a completed game where you were scum", you can plausibly not even link to the replaced-out game since they said "completed game".

Replacing out as scum so they'll not have a chance to be meta'd as scum in the future? This makes no sense to me, because you're suggesting that someone would both 1) replace out purely because they rolled scum and 2) not replace out of every scum game for this reason, just some of them.

I'm not sure where your head is at here.

[borkjerfkin]

You get town points for answering the question at all, honestly, since I think it's pretty evident I'd forgotten I even asked it.

[borkjerfkin]

*shrug* I asked that question almost two weeks ago and never followed up on it once it didn't get answered. I think that's a pretty safe indicator for him to have ignored it if he had desired to.

[borkjerfkin]

Point noted. Not worth arguing about.

[borkjerfkin]

?

[borkjerfkin]

I think lynching immediately when we've got two spots that have just been replaced is ill advised. That being said, I'm probably willing to follow the flowchart today, Majiffy. This doesn't look like 454 Majiffy. This looks like town a-hole Majiffy that I'm much more comfortable with.

Nacho replaced into a slot I don't like so I'm taking him with a grain of salt so far.

Fizz is siteflake so I'm actually guessing that wagon's gonna die due to lack of an ability to claim.

Only other thing I have to say is that Kmd's undermining my (admittedly weak) townread on Uct seems more made to set me off balance or remove an obstacle to a uct lynch than to really serve any other purpose.

p-edit: @Nacho: taking a single example/counterexample from not even the same player to prove that point? No dude.

[borkjerfkin]

Seriously what am I supposed to be looking at? How one person that isn't Fe played scum in one instance?

[borkjerfkin]

Yes but I don't want to lynch a PR that can't say that they're a PR.

[borkjerfkin]

And I think you're deliberately taking an unacceptable sample size in order to prove whatever point you want.

[borkjerfkin]

He's talking about Fizz not being a PR. But if people were always so sure about these things then no one would ask anyone to claim to avoid lynching PRs.

I dunno Kmd is rubbing me wrong again.

[borkjerfkin]

For the purposes of refining my asshole nature, please explain to me the difference.

Nope. Maybe post game (assuming I'm right).

[borkjerfkin]

Also do you think Nacho is just playing stupidly here or do you think he's scum?

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah dawg my past interactions with Breakfast support the fuck out of that assertion.

[borkjerfkin]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[borkjerfkin]

Also Majiffy I'll cross replace into your game if you replace into mine.

[borkjerfkin]

Just PM me whenevs. Anyway enough about that.

[borkjerfkin]

Breakfast is gone and Lunch is here

Ok I thought that was kinda cute.

But you're still just trying to discredit me instead of searching for answers here, and you've subtly moved from accusing me of not having a read on your slot to having an unjustified read on your slot with the tacit admission that you know I think you're scum (when really, you've known that the whole time).

Nacho needs to die tomorrow.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think you're scum, and I'm not implying that I think you are scum.

I wasn't trying to say that. #527 looks like a cheap potshot at me because I think it's pretty obvious that I'm not doing what you say I'm doing in #526.

[borkjerfkin]

Love it when a bunch of pages pop up while I'm gone.

Firstly what I was meaning is that when I make notes they are generally serious but occasionally they contain non serious points, I ashumed that tjhey would be obvious that they weren't serious and people would ignore them. However you seam to be making far big a deal out of it that it really should.

I just don't understand why you posted those notes without clarifying that they were just raw notes nor saying that certain parts weren't meant to be taken seriously. The second part is somewhat forgivable, but not the first part.

Not really getting Bork's suspicion of Nacho.

What don't you agree with? I don't think that town-Nacho would make the argument that he's making about Fe being town. I don't have a terribly good read on Fe, but to cherry pick a tiny group of newbies, make vague generalizations about how they play as town and scum, link to ISOs with no further granularity or explanation, and somehow handwave that into Fe = town all while misrepping me seems like a lack of a genuine attempt at scumhunting.

also VOTE: Nacho.

I'm fine with Fe dying, and we've got a quorum for it, but this is where I stand and I at least want to know everyone else's opinions on his contributions thus far.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: NS

That wagon hop off/on was really awkward.

[borkjerfkin]

you are stupid

[borkjerfkin]

Explain what 'effort posting' is, and how that's different than what I was doing yesterday. Thanks.

[borkjerfkin]

I wasn't on the Fe wagon cause I didn't know if he was scum. I voted NS because Fe flipped scum and he was on the wagon, and then thought he might be able to avoid a scum lynch by joining me on Nacho. When no steam for that picked up he switched back.

[borkjerfkin]

Since he flipped scum, yeah I do.

[borkjerfkin]

So you say.

[borkjerfkin]

also director's blissful unawareness of the gamestate yesterday means he's town.

[borkjerfkin]

you should have no problem voting NS with me then

[borkjerfkin]

I'd sooner vote KMD than Majiffy right now. I also don't understand what Majiffy did that could be considered "full bus mode" that would cause Fe to have dropped Majiffy from town to scum since if he were bussing, he'd have been doing so since #363 and that was well before Fe called him town leader in #456.

[borkjerfkin]

I'd sooner vote KMD than Majiffy right now. I also don't understand what Majiffy did that could be considered "full bus mode" that would cause Fe to have dropped Majiffy from town to scum since if he were bussing, he'd have been doing so since #363 and that was well before Fe called him town leader in #456.

You're missing the point.

> Fe lists Maj in town slot, says he's "town leader"
> Mollie says that it'd be funny if Fe listed his partners as town
> Fe suddenly lists Maj as scum

Maj's bussing isn't a cause for the switch. Mollie's comment is. What motivation would Fe have to suddenly switch his read on Maj if Maj is town?

I did miss that. It's better reasoning than my reasoning for NS.

VOTE: Majiffy

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah. No one wants to lynch you.

[borkjerfkin]

The Majiffy wagon is really, really stupid.
Also not convinced with NS. If he was trying to defend his buddy, I really don't think he'd try to lynch me, of all people. No one (except for bork, but bork is crazy) was talking about the scumread on me, so it wasn't exactly opportunistic. And he didn't vote Fizz, which would have been a hell of a lot more telling to me. So yeah, calling him town.

Don't really like Lastsurvivor right now, and might sheep Majiffy onto kmd. Might.

I think this is about the nicest way I've heard someone calling me an idiot. I do appreciate that.

What's wrong with LS?

[borkjerfkin]

prod dodge. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[borkjerfkin]

Remind me never to get in two games at once again. Catching up.

[borkjerfkin]

director and mollie are town as shit, and I have fuck reads on most everyone else. I guess penguin can be town. Nacho's play is way different today than it was yesterday (it's better today), but I'm hesitant to say that makes him town. NS probably needs to be policy lynched at some point.

#691 is about the only thing that's keeping me off the Maenara wagon. I don't expect that response from scum.

UNVOTE:

I'm not comfortable with any of my scum reads right now, and I need to devote more time to this game.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm 180ing on Nacho -- I think he's town and the case is good.

VOTE: LS

I'm only interested in Majiffy if LS flips scum, I think.

[borkjerfkin]

Truth be told, I forgot about fizzamar too. I think Buld's been pretty transparent so far, and the goofy shit around post 700 seems like he's comfortable just saying whatever's on the top of his head. I don't know how to reconcile that with anything Fizz did other than to say he's not the lynch today.

[borkjerfkin]

LS is making up accusations all over the place in order to distract people from the wagon on him. In other news, bears are catholic, water defecates in the woods and the pope is wet.

In all seriousness, what should he be doing, as hypothetical town, in such a scenario?

[borkjerfkin]

Hi, back from vacation and I'm caught up.

I had penguin as town earlier, but reading today, if it's between penguin and KMD I pick penguin --

I agree with director about penguin's denouncement of the LS wagon -- post #895 looks to me like penguin is actually preparing herself to jump ON that wagon if she needed to, but in #1058 she very much distances herself from that wagon.

Also looking at stuff like #803, there's a lot of opening up possibilities for every scenario, which isn't really something town wants to do. The overall theme in that post is that KMD is town with a bad case, but what the hell is the last sentence about then?

Anyway, my town reads right now are buldermar, mollie, nacho, director, probably in that order. Maybe uct. Still think NS should be policy lynched if we continue to get ahead.

VOTE: penguin

@KMD -- I'm not sure what you're accusing me of. I did all the things you mentioned in your post (save defending Fe -- I'll argue that I'm calling Nacho's meta attack on him obtuse as shit, not calling Fe town.) But I see no conclusion drawn in your aggregation of my interactions with Fe, so *shrug*.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork why am I included in your list in #1073?

It's a gut thing mostly based on your brief interaction with me around ~440. Not much has changed about my opinion of you since then. I've been going back and forth on whether or not asking about this is a towntell or not and I think that self aware scum might do it too so I'm calling it null.

Mollie that gambler's fallacy stuff from Nacho is tongue-in-cheek (and is an appropriate response as any to the original silly question from NS anyway). I find it odd you're calling attention to it.

[borkjerfkin]

KMD bus your buddy and join me on the Utc wagon.

uh why even start the uct wagon if you think kmd is bussing?

[borkjerfkin]

1076 looks like a halfhearted case on Nacho, and that gambler's fallacy point you made on it is shitty. If you conceded the point anyway, why is it odd that I'm calling attention to it?

I don't see a compelling reason to lynch UCT.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm just clarifying: you're lynching from the pool of people ON Fe and OFF LS? Or is there some other metric you're using to divide them?

[borkjerfkin]

how about you just fucking say it here so we don't have to go through this crap?

p-edit: what is the metric for who goes into what group?

[borkjerfkin]

aka which wagon are you talking about?

[borkjerfkin]

Why do you automatically buy into the theory that it's 1 off 1 on a wagon on town? Why are you not looking at the Fe wagon to do this (not that I'm saying it's airtight that 1 scum bussed and 1 didn't but there's probably more precedent for that and no I have nothing to back that up with)

Hell look at the game I just got done modding....shos and Zar were both on wagons on town on more than one occasion.

[borkjerfkin]

If anything I'd be saying that there's likely to be at least one scum ON LS and probably is impossible to divine anything further from the situation.

[borkjerfkin]

I guess given that you believe that (which is a stumbling block for me because I have no experience with that and you could just be totally bullshitting me), you've PoEd everyone else in group A away so the vote makes sense -- although I'd like to hear more why penguin is town because I thought the way penguin handled the LS wagon was pretty bad.

[borkjerfkin]

I agree with director about penguin's denouncement of the LS wagon -- post #895 looks to me like penguin is actually preparing herself to jump ON that wagon if she needed to, but in #1058 she very much distances herself from that wagon.

[borkjerfkin]

Is there any evidence that penguin's read on LS changed between #895 and the hammer? Otherwise who cares how many posts it was?

[borkjerfkin]

@bulder: I thought Maenara was implying that UCT scumslipped, like "she reminds me of how I play when I'm town" => UCT is not town this game otherwise he'd just have said "she reminds me of how I'm playing".

I don't agree that it's a scumslip.

p-edit -- went to the bathroom between typing and posting and like eleventy billion posts popped up

[borkjerfkin]

Majiffy, all I see from penguin pre-lynch is an acknowledgement that the case has merit, whatever the hell the second half of #895 means, a probe asking LS to explain stuff (#936) with no follow-up (quickhammer may have interfered but you can't genuinely call this scumhunting without any analysis).

Next day it's not only calling the hammer bad, it's also "I'm more interested in how we ended up lynching Lastsurvivor yesterday based off a bunch of mud-slinging." (#1058). Something is wrong there.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork, no way in hell that is a scum slip. People compare town play to scum play all the time. And this type of comparison ("you remind me of how I play as town/scum") is especially common for players who have played 5-10 games. It's not a slip or a tell.

I don't agree that it's a scumslip.

[borkjerfkin]

Ok. Your post looked fairly "No you're wrong"-ish, tonewise.

[borkjerfkin]

No, and your rejection of the KMD wagon is still creeping me out.

[borkjerfkin]

That's pretty convenient considering you revved up this UCT thing well before he started doing that.

Who you going after if UCT falls through (and at this rate it's gonna)?

[borkjerfkin]

eh

[borkjerfkin]

prods are for fuckshits i'm so fucking town holy shit dude

i'm fucking joining marathons if i can

[borkjerfkin]

town

[borkjerfkin]

penis

[borkjerfkin]

man

[borkjerfkin]

ok

[borkjerfkin]

yeah i passed out before the game started

[borkjerfkin]

sads

[borkjerfkin]

who the fuck knows

[borkjerfkin]

restate your uct case independent of your 1 on 1 off theory

[borkjerfkin]

mollie i'm probably willing to sheep you. I will not flowchart this game though because i think majiffy's being intentionally obtuse in a few places.

p-edit :thorneutralface:

[borkjerfkin]

yeah that'll get me to sheep you

[borkjerfkin]

also i just wanna tout my awesome marathon record:

marathon 1 -- third party (got modkilled for talking about my role)
marathon 2 -- town (passed out before game started)

[borkjerfkin]

i think i played EM last night too. I remember picking right on a LYLO.

[borkjerfkin]

i'm prolly

penguin
majiffy
kmd

right now but those are all really obvious to me so i'm sure it needs adjusting.

[borkjerfkin]

ns is a distant fourth

[borkjerfkin]

drunk EM is the only EM

[borkjerfkin]

viewtopic.php?p=4522896#p4522896
He's using mod flavor to justify an unvote. The fuck is that.

Explain -- I'm not seeing this.

[borkjerfkin]

viewtopic.php?p=4566850#p4566850
":[ Majiffy do you have any questions at least for me"
This is not how a town reacts to being voted reasonlessly.

This is a personality tell imo

[borkjerfkin]

not yet, no -- looking at it. i gotta go lay down though but don't let me off the hook about it when i get up.

[borkjerfkin]

ugh i feel awful

tia = thanks in advance

yes mollie that's my scum list

town would be

buld, mollie, prolly nacho but i'm finding it increasingly hard to read him as I look back at his D1 play.

[borkjerfkin]

majiffy i agree with you re: uct's weird voting KMD habits on D1.

[borkjerfkin]

that's not much of an answer.

I think I know what she's doing and I'm content to let her do it.

[borkjerfkin]

csb

[borkjerfkin]

scum is penguin and majiffy.

penguin because she is lurker central

majiffy because if he was actually threatening to scum he would be dead by now

but im just an idiot who didn't start the boat on Fe or anything. Pirate stop trying, scum have already won this game, it isn't worth saving.

you deserve more scrutiny for this comment -- we've what, hit scum once, mislynched once, and stopped a nightkill, but you think scum have already won. Why is that?

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Majiffy

[borkjerfkin]

borkjerfkin, why do you assume that Majiffy must be scum because he's still alive after two nights have passed, one of which didn't have a kill? What rules out him being town who drew both the NK and protection Night Two? Or fill in your choice of night actions that resulted in no kill? Sounds like a set-up to me.

The fuck?

[borkjerfkin]

oh you're referring to something director said and attributing it to me I think?

scum is penguin and majiffy.

penguin because she is lurker central

majiffy because if he was actually threatening to scum he would be dead by now

but im just an idiot who didn't start the boat on Fe or anything. Pirate stop trying, scum have already won this game, it isn't worth saving.

yeah that's not why I think he's scum. Weird KMD behavior, The Fe => Majiffy interaction end of D1, and the fact that he's pushing this 1 on 1 off thing as if its dogma and making lousy retroactive reasoning about it.

And your wagon is going nowhere and this game is stalled as shit.

[borkjerfkin]

I honestly thought this was more to figure out who to clear than to figure out who to lynch.

[borkjerfkin]

That's fine. Why is Majiffy town though? I really don't like the way he was pushing for KMD's lynch => saying he'll lynch either KMD or UCT => calling people's votes on KMD bad and that UCT is the only choice.

[borkjerfkin]

Director why are you holding out your vote? I think it gives us more info if you don't.

[borkjerfkin]

Conclusion:

We're lynching Majiffy or Penguin if we go by this system.

Probably should find a new system then.

That's fine. Why is Majiffy town though? I really don't like the way he was pushing for KMD's lynch => saying he'll lynch either KMD or UCT => calling people's votes on KMD bad and that UCT is the only choice.

KMD posted shit that made me think he was town. Problem?

that happened after your switch to UCT and the only thing that precipitated that was your one off one on theory.

[borkjerfkin]

point to those posts

[borkjerfkin]

whatever.

UNVOTE:

[borkjerfkin]

I think I don't vote you more in games because I know you're going to act like a shithead when I do.

[borkjerfkin]

like 454? Sometimes people roll scum

[borkjerfkin]

melodrama =\

[borkjerfkin]

You're taking this rather seriously.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm being constantly cursed at for no reason by someone I like =\

[borkjerfkin]

I was going to just make the point that everyone who no one declared a scum read on at all are probably more likely town than not -- I think that's the best lesson you can get out of that type of analysis.

[borkjerfkin]

We probably should have popcorned the list though

[borkjerfkin]

Yep.

[borkjerfkin]

I'd like to lynch KMD at this point.

[borkjerfkin]

@Majiffy: I'll cede that you're generally better at this than I am.

VOTE: UCT

This is a sheep vote.

[borkjerfkin]

I didn't know you were town a week ago.

[borkjerfkin]

I think if you use this approach in the future you should insist on a popcorn order.

And yeah, stuff happened. tl;dr is we're not lynching Majiffy barring a counterclaim that I don't think is going to come (1 scum for a doc trade is stupid for scum here and Majiffy is not stupid)

[borkjerfkin]

2) I don't believe Majiffy.

Is this a counterclaim?

[borkjerfkin]

seriously?

[borkjerfkin]

that was to ns

[borkjerfkin]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/ucp.php?i=pm&folder=sentbox

[borkjerfkin]

Ok.

[borkjerfkin]

I actually believe him.

[borkjerfkin]

NS if this were a closed setup then yes, lynch a claimed doctor. However we definitively know there's a doctor in this game and we can easily confirm him without lynching him (or catch scum definitively if he turns out to be such) so why would we not do that?

[borkjerfkin]

Everyone needs to weigh in before we even think about pushing this lynch through -- need to give ample time for counterclaims.

I've been spying the director online. It's not like him to ignore this kinda stuff.

[borkjerfkin]

nothing fucking

likely

about there being a doctor. there's a fucking doctor. read the setup people.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm fine with lynching NS.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not voting him cause that would L-1 him and I wanna more thoroughly ensure that everyone's got a chance to weight in on the Majiffy claim first.

[borkjerfkin]

Hey Bork! Good luck to your Bengals today!

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[borkjerfkin]

No argument here. That pick 6 was the only thing that even made it close

[borkjerfkin]

K

[borkjerfkin]

I've still got my whiskey.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm rooting for dark horse Seattle to take the whole thing

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really get your reads Majiffy based off your previous play, but unless you get counterclaimed I don't have anything else to say about it.

[borkjerfkin]

Also director's "I'm going to be so obstinate that I couldn't possibly be scum" routine is starting to wear thin. There's no rhyme or reason to anything he's doing.

[borkjerfkin]

If you've got something to say about something, I'm all ears.

[borkjerfkin]

I assume you're talking about Mollie based on the context of your previous posts the last few pages. Yes?

[borkjerfkin]

I don't really have any empirical evidence for that rule of thumb being true, nor do I have a scumread on her in this game, so throw me a bone here. Why?

[borkjerfkin]

You were calling her scum a few pages ago Majiffy. Was that just f'ing around or did you really think that?

[borkjerfkin]

Mostly the "I need everyone's reads so I can compile them and also I'm going to cozy up to the obvtown so they will never ever vote me."

There's town motivation for doing this as well as scum motivation.

[borkjerfkin]

I wanna hear from Marinara before anyone hammers anyone.

[borkjerfkin]

In fact,

Please prod Maenara

[borkjerfkin]

?

[borkjerfkin]

Also we need to start calling out JK targets in case we hit scum today. We should've done that yesterday too.

[borkjerfkin]

If we hit scum today, there is 1 left. If we plan for the JK to target X person if and only if we lynch scum, a kill overnight would subsequently clear that person.

[borkjerfkin]

(we don't have to out the jailkeeper to do this)

[borkjerfkin]

This is like the one situation where we really need to do connections pre-flip. I haven't really looked at who UCT's likely buddy would be -- it's most assuredly not NS.

[borkjerfkin]

I'd probably end up suggesting Maenara without really looking into it in depth.

[borkjerfkin]

One day before that as long as the doctor is alive.

[borkjerfkin]

Be useful then? You're not dead.

[borkjerfkin]

I think Maenara actually makes a great UCT partner -- she jumped off his wagon just as it was gaining steam but kept him as a scumread.

[borkjerfkin]

"Two of my scum reads are pretty likely town now so I'm totes forced into picking the 3rd now"

adjust or die

[borkjerfkin]

I agree with buldermar

[borkjerfkin]

JK target is roleblocked and protected from killing actions. All other actions performed on JK target go through as normal.

[borkjerfkin]

lol

[borkjerfkin]

(majfiascum JK is an EpicMafia Nurse)

[borkjerfkin]

In that case I suggest that we all agree on someone who isn't Majiffy for the JK to jail and the JK then decides between jailing Majiffy and that other person we agreed on

I agree with buldermar except for this part, actually, here's what we actually should do:

Agree on a scummy person to jail in the event we lynch scum, if we lynch scum, we jail that person.

If we lynch town:
50% jail Majiffy
50% JK does his or her own thing (instead of doing what buldermar suggested and using an agreed upon person). The reason for this is to give us a non-zero chance of catching scum making a kill. otherwise scum just sends the other guy to make the kill.

p-edit: i think nurse is actually one of the few non-overpowered power roles on EM (yet it's not even allowed in training lobby). Most roles there are awful. Jesters in like every other game? yeah no

[borkjerfkin]

vote buldey and then borky as possible second and third choices

Why?

[borkjerfkin]

Which ones are the scumhunting setups? I can never seem to find any going

[borkjerfkin]

I don't like EM deathmillers otherwise I'd be cool playing that (MS millers suck too).

I also hate nightstarts.

I think I just really hate EM and that's why I only play it when I'm shitfaced.

[borkjerfkin]

Majiffy who is your vote for UCT-scum JK target?

[borkjerfkin]

I'm gonna go ahead and make the executive decision that we jail Maenara in the case UCT (who given today's contributions should be lynched before NS) flips scum.

p-edit -- penguin, I don't think NS is scum with Uct which is why I don't think that's a good plan.

p-p-edit -- I don't see any towntells in Maenara's post here that makes me change my mind on the target.

p-p-p-edit: fuck it i'm posting this.

If anyone thinks this is absolutely unacceptable I wanna hear about it now -- otherwise we need to stick to this plan.

[borkjerfkin]

Oh, if UCT flips town, JK needs to make it slightly higher than a 50% chance they jail Majiffy. like 60/40.

[borkjerfkin]

what?

[borkjerfkin]

scum can't "see through" the numbers. They're taking a risk no matter who they target, and I'm aiming to maximize that risk.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not asking them to like it, I'm asking them to do it.

[borkjerfkin]

Yeah we're doing what I said to do.

[borkjerfkin]

No one's suggesting we nail down the doctor and the JK if we end the day with multiple scum at large. The alternate target suggestion is only to be implemented if we hit scum with today's lynch. And I don't think anyone's suggesting we nail down the doctor at all.

No.

If we hit scum today we are jailing Maenara. Period.

If we hit town today we are jailing either:
Majiffy (60%) chance.
Whoever (play as many mind games as you want or flip a coin or do whatever you were gonna do) (40%) chance.

[borkjerfkin]

Considering the amount of people that have a scumread on you, I don't know how you can call it stupid. That all goes away tomorrow.

[borkjerfkin]

I kinda almost want to even lynch you today for that.

Anyway my shit is a great idea and we're doing it.

[borkjerfkin]

The percentages are relevant, but other than that you seem to be agreeing with me.

[borkjerfkin]

I don't disagree with that.

[borkjerfkin]

Agreed upon person in the 1 scum left scenario = either a kill happens and that person gets cleared and it's a scummy person so we take them out of the lynch pool and things are good or no kill happens and things are good (yeah there's WIFOM potential here but scum have to no kill to do it)

Agreed upon person in the 2 scum left scenario = if it's scum it's useless as the other person just does the kill. If it's town that person just doesn't get targeted.

[borkjerfkin]

Basically in the 1 scum left scenario we can use the JK as kind of a half cop rather than a doctor and that's what I'm advising we try to do.

[borkjerfkin]

It needs to be high -- scum gets a lot out of killing Majiffy so they need to be punished for trying.

[borkjerfkin]

I'm not sure I agree with you but you're thinking on the right lines.

[borkjerfkin]

That doesn't mean we automatically go and lynch the person that we jailkept -- we need to treat that scenario for the WIFOM potential it has.

But the possibility of clearing Maenara with a nightkill is huge.

[borkjerfkin]

You really need to take into account the fact that he's confirmed town too.

[borkjerfkin]

Agree with you both.

[borkjerfkin]

Stick to the plan.

[borkjerfkin]

mollie's inching her way off my townlist.

[borkjerfkin]

He's at L-2? really?

[borkjerfkin]

How authentic is 1769 to you Majiffy?

[borkjerfkin]

Was that a Nacho-induced reply?