Mini 1398 - Game Over!

[Disturbed_One]

Vote: jmo16mla

Because I swear I am going to forget your username later on.

[Disturbed_One]

Vote: JMO

OMGUS votes this early on, hmm?

Lmao, I saw someone had voted me, but I didn't care. I just went picked out a name in the list. How does that happen?! XD

I'm not buying this. Your vote was clearly an OMGUS. My vote stays on you, for now.

JMO, what's your take on iamusername?

[Disturbed_One]

McStab, care explaining your vote?

[Disturbed_One]

Dunhamganger, any reason for your vote? Or are you just RVSing?

Also, no thoughts on JMO or iamusername?

[Disturbed_One]

Considering I was waste off my ass and randomly voted someone, it wasn't OMGUS.
Iamusername looked pretty fake with his "lets get him" post. I don't understand why you would try to wagon someone without reason.

I voted for you. You replied "lol" and then proceeded to vote for me. It's pretty clear your vote was OMGUS, the fact that you're lying about it makes you obvscum in my book.

[Disturbed_One]

Not obvscum. Why would he lie about that as scum?
He's obvscum if someone can prove that he thinks OMGUS is a 'good' scumtell (via meta). I'm just assuming he thinks OMGUS is a good tell.

My logic is that he got a vote on him for OMGUS, and then he tries to defend himself saying that is not OMGUS when it very much so looked like it was. I thought he was lying and town has no reason to lie about an OMGUS. You seem to be implying this is illogical. Mind elaborating?

For the record, I very much so dislike the "I was high when I posted that defense." Because there's very little way to verify that or not, as it is out-of-game information.

[Disturbed_One]

@ JMO:
Just to be clear, the reason I persisted pressuring you wasn't for the OMGUS vote itself. Rather, your reaction to pressure that was placed on you because of the vote.

I really like the ICEninja wagon right now, but Bacde has made a good point about iamusername and I like that wagon as well. Personally, his fos on ICEninja feels a bit like leaving the door open to potentially bus his scumbuddy.

Vote: ICEninja

Because his reaction to McStab's vote was very fishy.

[Disturbed_One]

I'm still suspicious of JMO because of his reaction to pressure and he is still a scum read to me. His latest post seems to be backtracking a bit. "Why wouldn't I want to place an OMGUS vote?" But I thought you said you didn't place an OMGUS vote? Seems a lot like he thought OMGUS was a scum-tell, tried to claim it wasn't because he was drunk, and now that we're saying it's really not that big of a thing to react to, he's starting to act like it's okay.

The more I look at this, the more and more I'm convinced JMO is scum. ICEninja can be pressured later.

Unvote: ICEninja
Vote: JMO

[Disturbed_One]

You could look at my wagon jumping as scummy, but really I'm just trying to scum-hunt. The conversation with JMO had pretty much reached a "You did this", "No, I didn't" stage. So I wanted to try and pressure one of my other scum reads and see where that went. At the moment, I'm still quite convinced that JMO is scum. His reaction to the accusations speaks loudly enough.

JMO, in your post where you voted me, you said "Lol." Can you tell me what that was in response to?

For the record, my other scum reads are Ice and iamusername.

[Disturbed_One]

It's post #6.

[Disturbed_One]

@ JMO:

I don't feel like lol is a scumtell. But it implies you were replying to something. I just have a very hard time believing that you really were unable to catch my name. You saw my post and really didn't get my name? I know when anyone votes for me, I'm always sure to note their name.

@ Bacde:

Absolutely. I feel that he was most definitely replying to me in that post and I feel his reactions to the claim of him placing an OMGUS vote are quite scummy.

iamusername, you are scummy for a very ungenuine post #12. (And hopping on a pretty bad wagon I feel, to top it off.) Also for post #37 claiming that I had some kind of disconnect. You took two separate posts of mine and tried to make it look like they were inconsistent, which they were not.

ICEninja is scum for saying McStab's vote is not good merely based on the fact that it was placed on him. Also, for being very supportive of many wagons at once but not directly supporting them, I.E through a vote.

[Disturbed_One]

iamusername:

How are they not my own words? Elaborate on that bit, please. But to answer your questions directly, you were all like "Let's go hunt the scum", which seems weird because it goes without saying that we should be hunting and lynching scum. It kind of read to me like "Oh look guys, I'm so town."

ICEninja is scummy because he was trying to discourage the vote on himself with bad reasoning. McStab said an explanation was forthcoming, so it was obvious it was not a meaningless vote. Seemed kind of a like a nervous "Oh, he doesn't have a reason for voting me, so I'm not scummy at all." Also his indirect support of pretty much every wagon without actually voting on the wagons is pretty scummy. It means he's okay with a mislynch, he just doesn't want to be caught on a wagon that ends up in a mislynch.

@ Absta:

"Absta: you're stuck on thinking an OMGUS vote is a scum tell? Why wouldn't a townie who is offended by the vote want to vote back?"

He said this in one of his posts (forget the number, it's not hard to find anyway). To me, this looked like backtracking. He was arguing that he had never made an OMGUS vote and you were debating that he could be scum if it could be proven that he thought as OMGUS as a scum tell. And this post is trying to debate that OMGUS is a scum tell.

As far as I know, this is not a misrep nor is it a mistake. After all, it was my interpretation of what he actually did say. Do you disagree with this interpretation?

[Disturbed_One]

In case that wasn't clear enough, JMO was arguing that he had never made an OMGUS vote, because he was drunk. And then all of a sudden, he wanted to start debating whether or not OMGUS was an actual scum-tell. Kind of like, "I never made an OMGUS vote... but, if I did, it wouldn't have been scummy anyway." Does that make sense?

[Disturbed_One]

So you doctored that quote. Meaning you set it up specifically for you to lie.
Find the post number.

I didn't doctor anything. The only thing I did wrong was not quote you directly but paraphrase you and if you look at what you actually said and what my interpretation of it was, I don't think there's much of a difference between the two.

Post number is #43 and you did say that bit directed towards Absta. Explain how I am lying about what you said when I am making judgments based off of what you actually said.

[Disturbed_One]

Well, hasn't this escalated to a meaningless discussion of semantics.

I did quote from the post, in fact I did quote the portion which I was using for my case. I did quote it, so I'm not sure why you're acting like I didn't.

I never said you directly said that. Even though the quoted portion basically amounts to that. Geez. Regardless of what you said, you are clearly discussing whether or not OMGUS is a scum tell.

I'm honestly getting tired of going back and forth like this. Apparently, my case isn't amazing or else the votes would be flocking to you right now. In fact, I get the sense from some people *coughAbstacough* that they think my case is either misrepresented and/or illogical.

Unvote: JMO
Vote: ICEninja

[Disturbed_One]

ICEninja is scummy because he was trying to discourage the vote on himself with bad reasoning. McStab said an explanation was forthcoming, so it was obvious it was not a meaningless vote.

He did? I'm pretty sure when he dropped that vote in post 17 he voted for me and said absolutely nothing about it. Unless I'm reading that post wrong. Nope, I'm not. He then came back and said he would eventually explain it, and I'm still waiting for said explanation.

Also, as I directly stated "looksl ike McStab's vote is serious", as in not meaningless, why are you painting me as having said his vote was meaningless?

Somebody please explain to me how pressuring someone for their reasons for voting you benefits scum more than town.

And um...this?

Also, for being very supportive of many wagons at once but not directly supporting them, I.E through a vote.

Being supportive of "many wagons"? If you mean labeling 3 players as suspicious, then OK. Haven't quite a few people labeled more than one person as suspicious? Oh and I haven't supported them? That's funny because I've had my vote on 2 of the 3 people.

jmo is still giving me scum vibes for reasons stated earlier.

Disturbed is flipping his vote back and forward on what look like the 2 "easy lynches", might be scum looking to see where his vote can safely stick. Considering how bad his reasoning for voting me is, I wouldn't be surprised.

Let's see what McStab has to say about his vote before we jump to any conclusions. Maybe he has a perfectly good reason for it. Maybe he doesn't.

What I mean to say is that you tried to make his vote look bad. You said that he hadn't given a reason for his vote yet, and you didn't like that. I find this a scummy reaction. You're also doing the same thing with me now. Trying to invalidate my vote on you.

I'm not trying to paint anything, though apparently I need to work on being more clear because you're the second person who seems to think I'm trying to obfuscate information.

You only supported that second vote after being pushed into it. But nice try. You were sitting on your vote before you got pressured into changing it.

My reasoning for voting you is actually quite sound. Really nice try at making it look like it wasn't, but the fact remains you've played a highly scummy game.

[Disturbed_One]

@ Mirhawk:

I actually don't know for sure, but to be honest, I really liked McStab's vote. I found ICEninja's first post a bit fluffy. A pseudo-useful but generally unimportant timezone question and a survey of experience, which is also pretty useless. And then the iamusername sheep, which is really all the post really contributed. Seemed like a lot of effort for that one post, personally.

Personally, I like McStab. He's definitely a town read for now. I do think he needs to explain his vote at this time, however.

[Disturbed_One]

@ absta: I realize what I said is not verbatim what JMO said. But can you not see that there is hardly any difference? JMO said "why wouldn't a townie want to OMGUS?" (Paraphrasing). Well, his argument is obviously assuming that he himself is a townie. So really, what is the difference here? You say I re-crafted his sentence, I absolutely do not agree with this. Can you not see how this is a form of backtracking?

I have played with Nacho and Shamrock before. Everyone else is new to me.

@ Bacde:

Care to point some instances of where what you are accusing me of happens?

[Disturbed_One]

Unvote: ICEninja
Vote: Dire_Drenz

You've posted all of three lines in this game. I think someone needs to start taking some more stances on the issues. You said you'd post more, is this all you got? What are your opinions on ICE, iamusername, and JMO? Explain why the wagon on me is good.

[Disturbed_One]

Iam:

I am aware that some of my logic has been terrible. But really, I'm just trying to figure out who the scum are. I got off the JMO wagon and ICE wagon because my place on them was quite hypocritical, I realize that now and am actually much more inclined to actually find the real scum then just focus on very, very bad leads. I guess I just didn't want to admit I was wrong. It's hard to say that you were wrong about your reads and that your logic was bad. But that is definitely the case here. I'm off the JMO wagon and I say JMO is town, ICE may still be scum but if so, I need to formulate a better case as for why he is.

[Disturbed_One]

I am actually really satisfied with my Dire_Drenz vote at the moment. He said he would post more, this is all he has? A wagon vote for the sake of wagoning? I'd like to see him pressured and start getting him to take sides.

[Disturbed_One]

I didn't even catch that, but you're right, that is a massive contradiction. The lie alone is worth voting him for, but you just added some serious fuel to the case.

He promised he would post more and all we got was "good wagon." He needs to be pressured.

[Disturbed_One]

Honestly I'm being a really lazy town, apologies for not participating more.

I just haven't had anything to contribute intellectually speaking with the whole aimless discussions over jmo.

I actually forgot my reasoning behind voting iamausrname from before. I'm pretty bad at this. Vote for me if you really want to, but I am town.

Bad post is bad.

If you're a townie, then why aren't you trying to find the scum? Explain your logic for the vote on me.

@ Mirhawk:

McStab hasn't really been active since those posts, so I'm not sure if that's because he's not willing to form a case or if he just doesn't have time to. Dire_Drenz is posting, so he is at least trying to be active and thus has no excuse.

Regardless, McStab in my mind made a very good IceNinja vote early on and actually got something started. People reacted to ICEninja's reaction to McStab's vote, for example.

On the other hand, Dire_Drenz is merely hopping on wagons without really giving any reasoning for doing so. He's not allowing any form of information to be accrued by his posts.

@ Dunhamganger:

Not at all. Despite the debate over semantics between myself and JMO, my case was mostly built off of his reaction. It really came down to the fact that I didn't like his defense and I tried to call his bluff. The resulting discussion of semantics I think is a pretty good indicator that I was wrong.

I feel my vote is very different from the one JMO cast on me. For one, JMO initially voted without a reason. My vote very much so has a valid reason behind it. If Dire_Drenz is a townie, then he certainly isn't playing like one. I maybe a dunce, but at least I'm trying to hunt the scum. Dire_Drenz is doing nothing and is content in hopping on wagons, regardless of whether they are town or scum. He clearly doesn't differentiate between the two, because he has given no reason for either of his votes.

[Disturbed_One]

@ absta:

Nice find on Bacde, what do you think of this post?

The fact that Disturbed thinkts Dire_Drenz is a good target for pressure makes me want to not pressure Dire_Drenz. Staying on Disturbed.

Maybe it's just my confidence in the Dire_Drenz vote, but this seems like a bad post. Thoughts?

[Disturbed_One]

@ absta:
What I mean to say is I agree Bacde's post is fake, in addition to the one I quoted.

Not sure about Sham. I see what you're saying, but part of me feels like it's a genuine inquiry. I actually have played with Shamrock before, he doesn't seem to be playing very differently from his town game in the game I played with him.

[Disturbed_One]

I agree with Nacho that Bacde is scum. He decided to keep trying to mislynch me and JMO instead of pressuring a player who has made some terrible posts, Dire_Drenz. Also, the Nacho vote is horrible. I'm not buying the whole argument that Nacho wanted to make sure that others were suspicious of Bacde before voting. That seems like really awful reasoning.

I'd like to hear more from Dire_Drenz.

[Disturbed_One]

Come to think of it, I'd like to hear more from Sham as well.

[Disturbed_One]

ICEninja, I feel exactly the same way about Dire_Drenz. His replacing out of the game seems a bit forced, mostly because we've told him that he should. I will definitely be keeping my eye on that slot.

I've definitely made some stupid plays for sure, in fact I'm not even going to try and excuse that and act like it doesn't matter. Because it does matter. Unfortunately, I can't re-do what I did in the past. I had reads and I went for them, sometimes with very poor logic. I think if you really analyze everything I've done though, it should be clear my intention is very much so to hunt the scum. And I do think I am improving at this. I feel proud of my Dire_Drenz vote and feel it was very good. Hopefully, this will be a trend of good scum hunting from me now that things have really taken off.

Seeing as Dire_Drenz is replacing out.

Unvote: Dire_Drenz
Vote: Bacde

[Disturbed_One]

@ Nacho:

I didn't say it makes him scum. All I said is I'd be keeping an eye on that slot. I do not suspect him any more or less because he is replacing.

@ Bacde:

I'm not trying to misrepresent you, but didn't you say that you felt that either myself or JMO was scum? If that has changed, I was not aware it had.

[Disturbed_One]

Bacde, you said you suspected JMO in post #88. I did look through your ISO however and saw your changed your mind in #96. I had completely missed that as was unaware you changed your opinion on JMO.

Nacho looks town to me, I don't think his reaction is scummy at all. Bacde still looks super scummy and I really like absta's point how he didn't ask his scum read, who supposedly seems fake to him, about one of my posts that absta thought sounded fake.

[Disturbed_One]

"Fossed"? I'm sorry, I do not know this term. You clearly say that you believe one of us is scum. I know you fixed it, but you did, at one point, suspect JMO. Perhaps not as much as me, but unless my eyes deceive me, you clearly said that.

I like and agree with his argument on you. I feel you are scum and the fact that he is voting you very strongly indicates to me that he is town. Maybe it's just a gut read, but I really like his posts and where he is taking the game.

[Disturbed_One]

Liking Jabberwock's posts so far. Enough to reduce my initial suspicion of Dire_Drenz, which was based on inactivity and Jabber seems to be very active so far.

I agree Shamrock looks scummy. I liked absta's point about his reaction to Mirhawk, which seems slightly forced. His activity has also been pitiful, I've played games with Shamrock before and he didn't lurk this much. We need to hear from Sham soon.

I liked McStab initially but he really needs to quit lurking and start posting.

[Disturbed_One]

I'm cool with Mirhawk, I say he's town. I agree with Bacde and Sham being the scum team. Not sure who the last scum is, to be honest I'm leaning on it being one of the lurkers Red Rabbit or McStab.

[Disturbed_One]

Shamrock, explain your power-lurking. Jabber proved you've been online, why have you been neglecting this game?

While you're at it, a list of your reads would be nice.

[Disturbed_One]

@ absta:

Mind explaining? I did not get that from Ice's last post.

What's typically the claim procedure in these sort of games, if the scum claim a town PR? I've never played in a mini before, so I'm wondering what we should do next.

[Disturbed_One]

Not sure I believe Bacde, really. In a situation like this, it wouldn't have been outlandish for him to take a gamble and claim bodyguard. Claiming VT probably wouldn't have protected him - every game I've ever played where someone claimed VT, that person was typically lynched. So maybe he figured he was busted anyway and decided to risk getting CC'd.

That said, I like where Jabber is going with these questions and I don't want to unvote just yet.

[Disturbed_One]

Bahahahaha.

I suggest if you want that vote to hold any water that you reference the game and post in which that happened.

I want a list for the same reason I wanted a list from Bacde. You're a scum suspect.

Unvote: Bacde
Vote: Shamrock

Post your reads, sir. I have no problem lynching you before we lynch Bacde.

[Disturbed_One]

@ jmo:

Not OMGUS. I asked him for his reads and he did not post them.

@ Cheery Dog:

Well, if he is telling the truth he would claim Bodyguard regardless. That's why I said I'm not sure if I believe him or not. I still find what he did scummy, regardless of the claim, and I have a hard time believing he is really town after all that.

[Disturbed_One]

Nacho suddenly abandoning this case actually does strike me as somewhat suspicious, believe it or not. Considering how hard Nacho has been pushing for the lynch on Bacde, I totally have a problem with him trying to get off the wagon now.

As Ice and I have stated, the Bodyguard role-claim is a very safe role-claim. The fact that Nacho is now suddenly convinced and even conveniently has reasoning for why Bacde is town seems weird.

Shamrock is obvscum, but I am definitely starting to get suspicious of Nacho.

[Disturbed_One]

why do you think the switch makes me scum?

Well, it doesn't "make" you scum. But it did seem a bit fishy.

You claim to have found reasoning for Bacde being town that Username pointed out. So I'm just wondering why you didn't switch sooner. If you thought he was town, why did you wait for him to claim before pointing it out?

[Disturbed_One]

@ Nacho:

Actually your defense comes off as very genuine to me, I could see why Jabberwock made you doubt yourself because they make very compelling arguments in general. I'll accept that.

I don't understand the bodyguard thing, though. Why is that a bad claim for scum? Ice actually argued it would be a safe claim to make and I agreed, mind elaborating on that point?

Why is absta scum?

---

I'm still not entirely sure about Bacde, but the point that his almost stubborn pursuit of the case on Nacho is very townish is a compelling one. At the moment, I think Shamrock is the best vote. He is obvscum for power-lurking and posting absolutely zero usable content.

[Disturbed_One]

Next would be disturbed. He seems almost a little too earnest sometimes, he flip flops his opinion a lot too. He also switches between reasoning things out in a fairly well thought out manner, and being a super-noob who apologizes for his logic and feigns inexperience fairly regularly. It feels off to me.

@Disturbed
It's a bad claim because of how it interacts with doctors. A Doctor and bodyguard protecting each other can be unkillable. Doc's are common, so there was a pretty good chance that one is in the game.

Thanks for answering my question, that makes sense.

How does one go about being too earnest? Please explain how apparently being completely open with people is scummy. (Which is the only plausible definition I can come up with for "too earnest.")

I was not aware changing my opinion was a bad thing. Why wouldn't a townie change his/her opinion to match the situation? If I stuck to my same town/scum reads through the whole game, I might have a very hard time finding the scum if I were wrong.

I don't claim to be inexperienced, though I do have my moments certainly. :P

[Disturbed_One]

I kind of like Absta. It's kind of hard to explain, in fact I can't explain it, really. But I get the sense he's town and I just can't shake it.

Honestly, didn't like RebRabbit. When I get a moment, I'm gonna do some investigating of Cheery's posts.

[Disturbed_One]

Melmond looks town, I'm not quite convinced either way on Cheery Dog atm.

These arguments between Nacho and Bacde read very much so like town vs. town to me. Shamrock is almost 100% confirmed scum, I can't really see Nacho as scum if Shamrock is scum.

[Disturbed_One]

Can you see Nacho as scum if Shamrock is town?
I take from this post that it also means that you can still see Bacde and Shamrock being partners, so is the Nacho/Bacde fight more likely town on town or one of them scum?

Yes, I can see that. But I feel there's almost no chance Shamrock is town at this point.

I actually see Bacde as town. I agree with the logic that scum can't claim bodyguard. It's town on town unless Shamrock is town, which would make Nacho likely scum.

[Disturbed_One]

@ Cheery:

It's obvious that he's scum and the fact you're even questioning it makes me doubt that you're town. He's been a complete lurksack the whole game and it's been proven he is neglecting this game. He has recent town meta and he plays completely opposite to this.

[Disturbed_One]

Good game all! I had ruled out bacde as being scum, he did a really good job of making himself appear like town. Same goes to Iam, that was an impossible game really and he hung on to the last second despite that.