Gay Mafia II: RIDE THE LIGHTNING (Game Over)

[Magua]

Hai guiz.

I'm lazy.

Like, super lazy.

So can someone explain to me the DeltaWave/SlumberPartyBois counterclaim scenario? I'll be your best bud.

[Magua]

Hydra thread?

[Magua]

EBWOP: Do you have any knowledge of your when your powers are used / what they do / what they did?

[Magua]

N2: Played "Postcards from Richard Nixon" for Wyrd. It was a watch effect. It said nobody visited him. I was either redirected or Wyrd is lying.

Did you get these results, or someone else?

How does a "no one visited Wyrd" result translate to Wyrd lying?

[Magua]

Guyth.

Guyth.

It taketh me a long time to get ready for a party of thith magnitude.

(If you know what I mean.)

Oh, and having DGB and Kathtuki/Kithe threadthhit everywhere didn't help.

But on to other thingth.

VOTE: ThlumberPartyBoith

I'm terrible at reading kanyeknowthbetht, but doethn't theem like he'th pothting much, tho little lothth there. Better at reading MattP, and what I'm theeing here jutht readth ath reluctant/defeated thcum. Here you have MattP, who loveth to fucking gambit and reaction tetht and uthe hidden knowledge to poke people and thee what happenth, here you have MattP ath a dreaming god who could conceivably have any rethult poththible, and he hathn't done jack-all with it. No faked rethultth, no reaction tethtth, no, "omg guiz I have a guilty, who wantth to take betth on who it ith?" nothing like that.

Even without the Bella/Pretentiouthdra buthinethth (ath in, pretty thure that Bella wath bodyguarding the Cop and no one elthe), MattP'th play readth ath unmotivated compared to what I've theen him do in other gameth.

---

Other thingth.

Read zorathter ath town, Mini-Librarian ath town, Trollie ath town, and want both DGB and Kawaii to die in a fire but not wanting to lynch either of them right now. Don't particularly read Zoidberg ath town, but think he'th not-Mafia becauthe of D1 voting.

Everyone elthe hathn't really regithtered enough of a read.

[Magua]

vollkan is scum.

VOTE: vollkan

Looking at dramonic or Iecerint as SK (maaaaaaaybe DGB if Kawaii was an SK kill as opposed to a mafia kill, but I'm not seeing any consistent pattern in the kill flavor to back up that theory, so ignoring it).

[Magua]

vollkan started the Thunderhog wagon D1, so I give him credit there. Ythan wagon D2/D3 was because of PR report so null. Beyond that his contribution to the game drops off the map, and is all just asking questions and doing nothing with it. No analysis, no real stances. Claims voteless D5, but that's really no excuse. Just spends all his time talking minutiae about DGB's messages.

[Magua]

I don't think Zoidberg is mafia. This breaks down to two reasons:

- Unless there's more than one mafia left alive, with Iecerint having confirmed getting the dick text last Night, I do not believe Zoidberg could have performed the kill. I don't believe there's more than one mafia left alive. So.
- D1 votes from the Mafia onto Zoidberg do not seem like bussing.

Meanwhile, vollkan pops up, posts what is essentially "lulz" and then goes.

As long as someone can verify having received Zoidberg's dick texts the next Day, I see no reason to lynch him.

[Magua]

Scum can usually action + NK if they're the last one left, so I don't think the presence of dicktexts makes Zoidberg town -- it just confirms that his action is to send dicktexts (which we knew anyway). (Also, that was vollkan, not me.)

The thing is, that defeats the entire point of a Fruit Vendor (the point of the PR being that you have a verifiable Night action). See also: Author Mafia, where the Mafia Fruit Vendor was not allowed to NK and give fruit in the same Night, even though the other Mafia were allowed.

---

Vote shenanigans are *highly* likely to either be SPB, or to be DeasVail (who had died that same Night). The only thing that detracts from this theory is that I'm pretty certain that the post restriction thing was also Dreaming God work.

OTOH, vollkan could've just been completely lying about that, since it was never tested.

---

Back to Zoidberg, the "why" I don't think Zoidberg is mafia from the D1 votes is how long the votes are kept on and how the case is pushed.

Ythan spends most of D1 voting Zoidberg. He does jump onto Wyrd (bus), but it's for four vote counts and then he's back onto Zoidberg. But there's no reasoning given for jumping off of Wyrd, and jumping back onto Zoidberg is done off-hand. It makes the Ythan/Wyrd interaction read as distancing and the Ythan/Zoidberg interaction a place for Ythan to dump his vote and forget it.

ThunderHog spends most of the Day on Zoidberg, and jumps onto Wyrd (bus) only after he (Thunderhog) becomes the leading wagon, and he jumps onto Wyrd for a completely throwaway reason (Wyrd says vollkan isn't bussing Thunderhog). Thunderhog is going down and wants to distance a partner, jumps onto Wyrd. No need to do that if Zoidberg is also scum with Thunderhog, since SPB is already distancing Wyrd, Thunderhog can distance Zoidberg and that can be played for towncred. But nope.

---

I have a pretty PoE pool to lynch from: vollkan, Iecerint, and dramonic. Of those, I feel that vollkan is really the best bet for Mafia. Like, super really.

[Magua]

You think that he lowered the lynch threshold as many of us were ready to lynch him over DW?

A Dreaming God has little-to-no control over what they do. SPB was, at least at some point, a Dreaming God from flip. DV was always a Dreaming God. As a Dreaming God, they don't get to say, "Whelp, I'd like to lower the lynch threshold," they just pick from a list of (mostly meaningless) names -- DV's was a list of song titles, for instance, and then the effect goes.

The Fruit Vendor still has a function in that it clears Zoidberg of any other mafia night-functions (e.g., he couldn't have been the roleblocker). But it's irrelevant if there's a strong precedent for Fruit Vendor getting special treatment. I'll check out the Author mafia game you mention.

From Author (postgame; Kuribo was the Mafia Fruit Vendor in question):

According to UT's comments in the Mafia A QT, they could do both if they were the last one left.

Except as Fruit Vendor, since as UT told me, the whole point of fruit vendor is to be able to say "I couldn't possibly have made the kill because I sent fruit." And indeed, my role PM makes no mention of being able to action and kill as last scum standing. When I asked UT about this, I was told that for balance reasons, no, the fruit vendor could not kill and action. I tend to agree with this decision, we just had a run of bad luck and awesome town play.

Though really, I don't actually give much of a fuck. I don't think Zoidberg is Mafia even without taking his role into account at this point, and I really, really, really, really think that vollkan is, so.

Will respond to dramonic re: trollie tonight.

[Magua]

One of SPB's powers could've joined him to the scumteam. But, seriously, with a Dreaming God (much less two), "Explain how this effect happened" is pointless and inconclusive -- it just generates noise without signal. The real crux is that no one has claimed doing it, and no one has claimed having it done to them, so chances of it being a 1-shot thing, regardless of source, are incredibly high. Or that vollkan is lying.

[Magua]

Hey, vollkan, a statement of who you actually think is scum would be faaaaaaabulous right about now.

I approve of DGB's questions to Trollie.

[Magua]

And if someone can tell me why Iecerint is town, I'd like to hear that as well.

[Magua]

I have been using the power, ive just been careful with my vote since i didnt want people to accidentally hammer someone not realizing i coujnted for 2

Claim who you've used it on.

[Magua]

You go from vollkan-scumread to vollkan-townread based entirely on this post? Where vollkan says, "Guiz, I lost my vote, and I don't trust DGB"?

[Magua]

Trollie, explain your vollkan-town read based on "He claimed that someone took his vote when I took his vote."

Then tell me who you think is scum.

[Magua]

Hey, zoraster, you know what would be faaaaabulous? Some idea of who you think is scum.

[Magua]

Thank you for narrowing down those choices, Iecerint.

Trollie's choices don't bother me nearly as much as his reaction to vollkan's reaction does. Or his reaction to DGB's antics today, given that yesterday he was fine to believe her with her guilty on Kawaii, then saw her drop all of that and focus on SPB, who did turn out to be scum, and yet today his only scumread is, "Guiz I don't really trust DGB."

Which doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that vollkan, dramonic, and zoraster all seem to have even less of a scumread on anyone. (I'll give a pass to vollkan, because he's scum, but still...)

[Magua]

I am of the decided opinion that Trollie is a terrible lynch, because given that he's a confirmed vote stealer, even if he is Mafia or SK, the other faction will have to kill him or face insta-loss in lylo.

(Unless he's a BP-vote-stealing SK, which, I suppose is possible, but still...)

[Magua]

why the FUCK have people allowed a wagon to grow on me while ive been away?

get those fucking votes off me are you all fucking insane?

1) isnt double voter like never a scum role
2) what the fuck is scummy about being a double voter
3) dont let the scumfucks pushing my wagon derail us from wherever we were headed today before my claim

Two votes is not "a wagon". Unless you're worried about a hidden double voter. But you're a hidden double voter, so...

1. I had it as a scum role in Paranoia Mafia.
2. What is scummy is your choice of targets; not seeing how you're missing this one, as it's repeated about a dozen times.
3. Where were we headed?

The third question's the important one, so if you could go ahead and tell me that that'd be great.

Zoidberg: 53
Magua: 53
DGB: 60

All else at 50.

Needless to say, none of those suspicions is especially strong

I'm going to assume higher numbers are scummier. If so, fabulously well done on, at *Day 6*, standing up and saying, "Guiz, I've got no firm scumreads."

I mean, if you were town, I'd expect you to be doing shit, like trying to figure out who scum is. Thank you for making it so much easier for me by not doing anything like that.

Thing is, I don't believe that Trollie is just a vote-stealer. He might have had a one-shot vote steal. I think he's hiding something. The scum won't kill him if he's scum.

If he has one-shot abilities, of which vote stealing is one, it makes no sense for him to have used it on vollkan D5, especially given vollkan's non-voting-nature D2-D4 to begin with. You save it for lylo, since it moves lylo up a Day early. But even that aside, assuming you believe there's two killing factions (Mafia/SK) that each have one member in them at this point, I don't think they can take the risk, and will need Trollie dead regardless of what they think his alignment is.

[Magua]

I see it differently.

We need to lynch him only if he's scum.

Scum need to kill him

regardless

.

---

As for the lynch threshold reduction, you're saying he did this and then proceeded to not do anything about it? That other mafia did nothing about it? That they left it up to you to hammer? I'm just not seeing the damning motivation that you're seeing.

[Magua]

I'm almost certain he's lying, yes.

But I'm not seeing the scum motivation for the lies I think he's telling.

[Magua]

You're not seeing it either. You're just ignoring that.

Now talk to me about vollkan, and why you're not voting him.

[Magua]

I got a message from the mod that Kawaii is guilty.

VOTE: Kawaii

[Magua]

Protip: I'm voting scum. You may or may not be voting scum.

[Magua]

is no one curious as to why DGB is going WILD over this "trollie is lying" bullshit?

Nope.jpg.

Ive explained why i chose the ppl i chose. I did not want to steal a vote away from someone who was using their vote. So i stole it from ppl who werent using it heavily, then I stole it from Kaiwaii who i thought was scum.

What you have failed to explain is how you went to vollkan-town-read based on this post.

[Magua]

...

...

...

[Magua]

vollkan: "Eh, guiz, I lost my vote. I assume this means I was targeted by some action that causes me to lose my vote."

TheTrollie: "That's totally town!"

Trollie, what would you say if I told you that vollkan was, in fact, not town?

[Magua]

The question is, would you believe me? Or would you say that I'm wrong and vollkan is actually town?

[Magua]

Iecerint, please stop being terrible.

Thanks.

[Magua]

OK, well, you can just continue your back-and-forth with a player you've already said you don't want to lynch absent a scumclaim, I guess. Maybe whatever you're trying to do will become obvious to me if you keep it going for long enough.

I'm trying to get who he thinks is scum. Given that there has to be (at least) 2 scum remaining, anyone who has less than 2 scum-suspects is in a bad place.

My not wanting to lynch Trollie today is mostly because I think it's so incredibly likely that he'll be killed by either the Mafia or the SK (or both) because of how it would be instaloss for them if he doesn't die before lylo.

[Magua]

I mean, this Day has been going on for a week and a half and so far the only stuff I've gotten out of it is that there's a bunch of people skimming by some where around the area of 0.2 lines of content per 24 hours and no one seems to give a shit, but y'all are willing to wagon Trollie for being an idjit.

Pretty much feel that no one besides DGB gives a shit about the game, and is just going for the easiest lynch possible (and I'm including Trollie in this group, as well).

[Magua]

You think he's misclaimed his ability. So. Easy test is to have him use his ability on someone who's not going to get NK'ed (eg, dramonic).

Possibility #1: Trollie is killed. Great.
Possibility #2: dramonic is killed. Still great.
Possibility #3: Neither is killed, ability is confirmed by dramonic. Best believe that Trollie is going to get killed that next Night because it is a guaranteed loss for one if not both scum factions otherwise.
Possibility #4: Neither is killed, dramonic does not confirm ability -- fine, at that point we lynch Trollie and you can be all, "magz u so dum lrn2plymaf"

As for your arguments for Trollie being scum: no reason for Trollie-scum to admit to using it on vollkan, no bloody reason whatsoever for Trollie-scum to have used it on vollkan N4 to bloody begin with. The argument that he must be scum because the things he's done are just stupid is a bad argument.

[Magua]

There was no PoE on him. There was no suspicion by anyone that he was at all related to vollkan losing his ability, and there was at least one person (that is, me) saying that vollkan was quite likely simply lying about it. Especially if Trollie was scum with a one-shot-vote-steal power that he inexplicably used N4, and then even more inexplicably used on someone who hadn't voted since D1, would've been so much easier to just not say anything at all.

Yeah, I'm aware that with a hated townie today is essentially lylo. That's why I'm convinced Trollie will die tonight, regardless of his alignment, because with zoraster in play, if Trollie is *not* lying about his ability (which, to be fair, I don't think he is) then any scumteam that doesn't include him is outright fucked if they don't kill him.

Simple fact of the matter is that "I'll be active D1, and then completely disappear D2 and beyond" vollkan is 3,000x more likely to be Mafia than Trollie, and Trollie-as-SK would not, IMO, claim the vote steal on vollkan.

[Magua]

Yes, dram, because if I have a reputation for anything it's for being thick and retarded.

Since you're not calling me scum, I'm going to assume you think I'm town. So, by extension, you should think that I believe what I'm saying.

Your theory -- Trollie's not a threat and can be kept alive -- only works if you think his power was one-shot. Which then leads to the question, "WHY WOULD SCUM CLAIM A CONFIRMABLE POWER THAT THEY CAN'T CONFIRM UNDER ZERO PRESSURE WITH NO ONE LOOKING IN THEIR DIRECTION?"

But, fine. That'll question will get a reply of "wifom lulz" and then ignored. Ok, then. Let's play a game.

You think Trollie is scum? Tell me if you think he's Mafia or SK.

[Magua]

I have no evidence to support wether his power is one-shot or infinite. Im saying whatever form of scum he's not will just shoot him at the very last moment, say, beyond the point of no return for town. You think that trollie knows who his enemy is, I think he couldnt shoot his way out of a paperbag. If he's scum with infinite steal, he can instalynch zor tomorrow, get shot during the night and the other scum wins. If he's town, he'll string a series of mislynch and feed one scum or the other the win. If his power is one-shot, he cant rush the zor lynch, but he's still a threat.

Considering the power, mafia is more likely if multishot, sk is more likely if one-shot.

If his power is legit, and he's alive tomorrow, he's immune to being lynched (because he could always instalynch zoraster before he himself is lynched). So, extending that, the pool for lynching does not include him (and presumably does not include zor). That PoE kills scum. That's why scum will need to shoot him, because he will 100% not be lynchable, which regardless of *anything else* makes the other scum more lynchable.

Also I called you scum like, 3 posts ago. Doesnt mean I dont wanna see if you'll backpedal on your suicide stance

So you did. You just don't act like you mean it. I mean, if you really think I'm scum, and you really think that Trollie is scum, then for the *exact reasons I'm giving* I should be all for lynching Trollie. But I'm not. And you're not making any effort to figure out why, so, conversely, I don't think you believe both Trollie/I are scum. Either you're scum lying about opinions or you're just floating opinions to reaction test that you don't actually believe.

Thing is, when I kept up with things (D1), it was fine. But Mafia is a game, especially in Large Games, where falling behind just gets compounded. I've fallen behind badly - I know in broad, blobby terms what's happened, but either there are no scumtells that I consider major (possible) or, more likely, things have just slipped by me.

Short of it is that I probably haven't kept track nearly as well as I should have, and I'm really doubtful I will have the time to do so. If that's lynchworthy, so be it, but for the sake of not doing this later on in the game, I'd suggest doing it now.

So you were able to keep up fine when the game was at its largest and fastest, and now that it's at its slowest (73 posts in 6 days, or 12 posts a day, the vast majority of which are a single paragraph or less), you can't keep up?

More concerning is that most of what's happened has been pretty obvious, yet ignored by you, eg, your suspicions of DGB date back to before the SPB lynch, but you don't even make mention of it. You don't comment on Trollie. You neither try to convince me I'm wrong about you, or try to convince people I'm scum. You're all, "I dunno guiz just lynch me maf is so hard"

are you FUCKING RETARDED? I AM TELLING YOU IT IS NOT ONE SHOT, WANNA SEE ME GET SOMEONE LYNCHED TODAY BY USING IT? I HAVE KAWAIIS VOTE RIGHT NOW YOU FUCKING LUNATIC.

Trollie, do you have mod confirmation that you actually have two votes today?

[Magua]

Let me get this straight.

You think that I, as scum, instead of lynching Trollie today and shooting whoever the fuck I want to at Night, want to derail that lynch (thus opening myself up to the possibility of being lynched)...and then be forced to shoot him at Night?

That makes absolutely no sense, and I do not believe you are thinking these things through before you type them.

[Magua]

Then maybe you can explain to me how it makes sense to you.

[Magua]

So, again, you think that Magua-scum sees Trollie, knows that Trollie must die for Magua-scum to win, and then goes on to not lynch him, forcing Magua-scum to NK him instead?

Because that's what dramonic says he's thinking, and you said you were thinking the same thing. Yet I feel I can get a reasonably coherent explanation from you, unlike from him.

---

For zoraster, I'd prefer to lynch zoraster over someone who I wasn't >80% certain was scum. I'm not > 80% certain that Trollie is scum, so I'd rather lynch zoraster than Trollie. Mostly because I think it still ends with Trollie being NK'ed, whereas zoraster is never going to get NK'ed.

[Magua]

Lynch preference (strong to weak): vollkan >> zoraster >> iecerint > dramonic

[Magua]

Magua, do you seriously think there is a sliver of a chance you are getting lynched today? <_<

Pretty certain I'm not; would bitterly hate to be disappointed. But it's still a possibility that wouldn't occur if Trollie was lynched, so I thought I'd mention it.

I mean, seriously, the only possibilities are:

1) I'm town and I believe what I say about Trollie, or
2) I'm scum and I believe what I say about Trollie, or
3) I'm scum and I believe that Trollie is the double-voting other scum and don't want to lynch him, opening me up to being lynched *and* opening me up to being cross-killed *and* forcing me to kill him tonight, all instead of just saying "U guiz r so smart" and jumping on.

I don't think tactical-lynching zora makes much sense because AFAICT it's only a move that makes sense if Trollie is scum (i.e., because he's only quicklynchable by TrollieScum, unless the SK and mafia team up). The presence of 2 kills means that lynching hatedZora takes us from maybe-lylo to definitely-lylo.

If there are no scum deaths this Day or this Night, then tomorrow is lylo regardless of any other factors.

The problem is that if there are no scum deaths this Day or this Night, and zoraster is still alive, town loses even if it lynches right (or its a race to see who posts first, depending on the mod). This is completely unrelated to Trollie.

Assume it is 6:1:1.

Lynch town, two town are killed: 3:1:1.

Now assume that we lynch scum, and then the remaining scum shoots: 2:1. Except that the scum can then immediately vote zoraster to lynch him (and some mods may allow the scum to pre-send this in, "Vote zoraster at the start of the Day" or whatnot, depending). If not, then the only way for town to win now is for the town to post to show zoraster he's not voting, vote the other guy, and for zoraster to hammer before the scum gets online. Not the best.

Hence my comment that if I'm not > 80% that someone is scum, I'd rather lynch zoraster.

In that scenario trollie is still the superior lynch

Unless Trollie is town, etc. Granted, my view of this is that I am, in fact, 100% that Trollie is going to die tonight. So I see lynching him at as a waste.

[Magua]

Trollie has yet to vote anyone, isn't that strange?

Depends.

Trollie's last vote is January 20th, over two weeks ago.

Of course, zoraster's last vote was also January 20th.

But then, of course, there's vollkan, who hasn't voted anyone since January 5th, *over a month ago*.

I see it more as a commentary on the sad state of the game.

But, while on the subject, DGB, does Trollie's claim that he has a confirmable double vote change your opinion about anything at all?

[Magua]

Hooray.

So.

Let's run someone -- and by someone I mean vollkan -- up to L-2 and have Trollie vote.

(And if Trollie votes and it's not a lynch, I will beg a thousand forgivenesses from you and spread rose petals everywhere you walk and peel and feed you grapes, etc, etc.)

[Magua]

Man, with a bookie in the setup youd think scum would have some form of vote manipulation
Oh wait

Hey.

Hey.

Dramonic.

Would you, as scum, leave alive a confirmed double voter for lylo?

[Magua]

Trollie: yet it showed yesterday

It didn't, on the day that vollkan confirmed have his vote lost. Check out 3307. Trollie is voting Kawaii along with Zoidberg, and the VC shows 2 votes, not 3.

[Magua]

Shrug, hardly relevant, was just an observation.
On a more serious note, for the exact same reason you dont wanna lynch outside of volk and zor, I dont wamt to lynch outside of trollie and zor.

Do you think vollkan is town?

Relatedly, who is your second suspect for scum?

---

I don't remember ever seeing Trollie's vote listed as two on the vote count. I assumed that we would just have a lynch at L-1 and that would be the proof.

Seriously, this is a forum game with full history. Things like dramonic's "But your vote was listed as two yesterday oh wait no it wasn't" have no reason to exist. Take two seconds to ISO the mod and find such a vote count, don't just spew.

[Magua]

Hooray, thank you Iecerint.

@Mod:

Is the VC in 3000 correct in regards to 3 votes on Wyrd?

[Magua]

I think it's obvious his ability is (at least) multishot as if he can't confirm it today (by lynching someone at L-1) he's going to get lynched himself. Confirming with a VC that shows multiple votes would be cleaner and faster, but not fundamentally different.

Odd that dramonic points out that D4 effect, sees the D5 claim, and still refers to Trollie as one-shot in 3530, but probably not alignment-related.

---

In Slaxx games, if a (Mafia) Bookie correctly predicts the next Day's lynch, the Mafia gain an additional 1-shot Night-kill (source); I assume that this is similar but is probably not a NK for swing reasons, maybe rolecop or roleblock.

[Magua]

Against mass claim until tomorrow.

[Magua]

Just DGB being DGB.

[Magua]

@Mod(s):

Holy fuck, put the deadlines in the vote counts.

@Mod(s):

Kindly answer the question asked of you in this post.

----

@Zoraster:

If you really thought massclaim today was a good idea, you should've said something about it, oh, I dunno, *12 days ago or something*.

But you could still help by motherfucking voting. I'll even narrow it down for you:
1) You could vote vollkan, if you think he's scum, or
2) You could vote yourself, if you think vollkan's town, or
3) You could vote no lynch.

Voting for someone aside from vollkan or yourself is equivalent to voting no lynch.

For everyone, kindly note that one of the goals is to prove Trollie's double vote, so for fuck's sake, don't vote if it'll put someone at L-1. k? k.

[Magua]

You haven't voted anyone since the motherfucking 20th, there's 2 fucking days left, you show up after not posting for four days, you can motherfucking read the last 20 pages instead of whining.

[Magua]

EBWOP: Gee, zoraster, you're right, continue to do fucking nothing until you get compromise lynched, that'll go stunningly.

[Magua]

I

like

envy your ability to have not read any of the words written today.

You are the compromise lynch. True fact. Any incapacity you show for reading the game / posting / voting only increases the likelihood that this compromise will come to pass.

[Magua]

I want the mods to confirm that there is or is not a mod error in that VC.

If there was a mod error, regardless of the error, the VC should be corrected.

If it comes out postgame that there was a mod error in that VC that the mods knew about and did not own up to, I will go fucking ballistic.

PEdit: Great, you agree with me. I want to hear what the mod says it is.

[Magua]

While you're here Trollie, who's scum?

[Magua]

Oh, no, zoraster, I'm like 99% you're town.

Still support lynching you as the compromise lynch.

I know math isn't your strong suit[1], so I'll give you a few minutes to work out why lynching you (> 99% town) is better in my mind than lynching anyone I'm not sure is scum.

[1] I'm being needlessly sarcastic here. Math is, of course, your strong suit, and I'm 100% you know the exact fucking reason you're the compromise lynch, and it has nothing to do with anyone thinking you're scum. So 3606 is a waste.

[Magua]

zoraster, I disbelieve that you do not understand why a Hated Townie, even a confirmed town Innocent Child one, would be a good lynch the Day before lylo. Literally do not believe that you do not intrinsically understand this.

[Magua]

However, I will point out that your repeated cries of, "I don't understand," do nothing to stall your upcoming lynch, whereas giving actual scumreads would be a grand change of pace from your recent postings.

---

DGB, I've had the same thoughts, but it really doesn't matter. He's not surviving the game. If a Day starts where he's alive and scum should be in a position to quicklynch him (eg, three person lylo) and there's no quicklynch on him, then he's outted as scum himself.

[Magua]

Doesn't matter if he's telling the truth about his role, really (the Hated part, I mean). If there's a 3-way lylo with him and no one tries to quicklynch him, he's confirmed as the scum and both other players can vote him.

[Magua]

And if I had a daykill, vollkan would be dead.

This is a great game we're playing!

---

@zoraster: 6:1:1. ISO me and see when I run the numbers for Iecerint, but townlynch today + no crosskills tonight = town loss if you're alive.

[Magua]

Zoidberg, are you a hated townie? If not, shut it.

---

At this point I'm almost inclined to say that there are actually two mafia members left, I don't think magua can really be this retarded without an ulterior motive

Sadly, I do think you can be this retarded without an ulterior motive.

My god, snippy posts are fun.

so this is a question: why even bother try for vollkan today, Magua? As best I can tell you don't have a 100% scum read on him (just heavily suspect him), and even if he's scum you'll need to lynch me next (or else have a sure read on someone else). is it just that you think you're dying tonight?

I suspect him more than 80%, and so am willing to lynch him, yes. It's more that I simply do not

want to believe in

see a game where vollkan is town.

A vollkan-scum-lynch today would make this 6:1, NK would make it 5:1, so lynching you would not be an automatic move because you couldn't be instalynched in a four player mylo.

---

So with the mod response, I went back and checked the vote counts, and yes, Trollie's vote was counting as 2 in the VCs.

Post #2876, with 16 votes (4+5+7) in play (Trollie is voting DGB)
Post #2927, with 15 votes (4+3+8) in play (Trollie is not voting)
Post #3000, with 16 votes (3+3+3+7) in play (Trollie is voting Wyrd)
Post #3050, with 15 votes (3+1+1+3+7) in play (Trollie is not voting)

Yet this is not the case D5, when Trollie has claimed to take vollkan's vote, as can be seen in #3250.

@Trollie:

Kindly vote for someone nao pl0x. I don't care who.

[Magua]

Also

@Trollie

, kindly explain your belief as to why your vote showed as 2 votes on the VCs D4, but not D1 or D5.

[Magua]

k.

So, first.

Thank you to the mods.

Now.

Between vollkan, zoraster, and Trollie, having not voted for a collective 72 days and somehow stunningly having a total of zero collective scumreads, I'm officially sad, because there's no possibility where they are all scum.

Then there's "Want a lynch? Why not" Zoidberg.

And so that's half the game that I simply cannot respect as mafia players.

---

So, we have 36 or so hours to deadline.

With Trollie's double vote now confirmed, absolutely against lynching Trollie. dramonic can rail all he wants, but a double-voter in lylo is bad news bears for the scum and should be a top NK priority and I see no reason to help them with that. Furthermore, Trollie *steals* a vote, so even if scum let him live until D7, even if they kill him N7, they're taking a 50% chance that he'll steal their vote which will also cause them to lose. In addition to having another chance to crosskill. Etc. Etc.

Still want to lynch vollkan. dramonic says I'm chasing phantoms, which is lulz because I feel that dramonic is doing the exact same thing with Trollie, except Trollie will be NK'ed and vollkan never will.

At this point, my two suspects are vollkan and Iecerint, though I still want to go back and see if I think Iecerint fits as Mafia or just SK. Iecerint is just pinging for hanging back, commenting on mostly factual things (eg, Trollie's vote), and neither pushing his suspects or trying to engage people about theirs, but, eh, suspect was Trollie, so meh. Not certain enough on Iecerint to want to vote him today.

So it's still vollkan > zoraster for me.

*Really* curious about Iecerint's thoughts about lynching Trollie now that the double vote is confirmed.

[Magua]

I doubt vollkan will return to respond before the Day is over.

[Magua]

I think you are missing that the Mods clarified that listing Trollie's vote twice was NOT an error. This departs from Trollie's explanation of how his ability works and makes me want to lynch him more, not less. Either he's lying about how ability works, or he misunderstood it.

It shows that Trollie was a double voter D4 and a double voter D5, putting DGB's "fakeclaim and/or one-shot" theory to bed.

We then circle around to having two scum factions, and scum needing to kill Trollie to avoid losing to PoE and/or to having their vote stolen (and, if the scum think that Trollie is other-scum, as dramonic seems to think, they risk losing to being crosskilled).

So, the question put to you is, do you believe that Trollie, confirmed vote-stealing-double-voter, will be NK'ed by one, if not both, scum factions?

Mod error?

Given VC 5.2 (the one the mods just corrected today), VC 5.3 has to be mod error.

[Magua]

@Trollie:

Your IIoA in 3653 isn't useful. Give an actual fucking scumread on someone, actually, two someones.

Zero interest in lynching Trollie, DGB, Zoidberg, and (this is the weakest) dramonic.

Leaves vollkan, zoraster, , who I want to lynch in exactly that order. For zoraster's sake, I'll repeat I want to lynch him because I understand basic maths, not because I think he's actually scum (though, he's doing a good job of acting like scum at this point in time, so)

As deadline is < 24 hours away, if people can actually man up and post reads, that would be fucking great, though I sincerely doubt 3/8ths of the game is going to do it.

[Magua]

I thought it was to Saturday for some reason.

Great! We have < 48 hours instead of < 24!

Oh, and you're here! So you can post reads!

!!!!

!!!

!!

!

[Magua]

I'm voting vollkan and been crusading for his lynch all Day. zoraster is only a compromise lynch, inasmuch as no one thinks zoraster is scum, and he's just a lynch target to minimize potential damages. Whereas I actually think vollkan is scum.

The problem is that I'm not sure I can swing a vollkan lynch, which is really somewhat surprising. At best, I've got me, you and Trollie for it (and that's only if your willingness to vote vollkan wasn't some reaction test), and even that that's only four votes, whereas dramonic and Iecerint are against voting vollkan and Zoidberg is lolwtfbecausewhyshouldZoidbergdosomethingsomundaneaspostreads?

[Magua]

@ Magua -- Trollie may be killed N6, but I do not think it's as fullproof as you appear to. There are a lot of factors in play. If he's mafia-scum, SK-scum could play a "make them lynch him" game analogous to what you're proposing. If he's SK-scum, mafia will probably be less likely to try to NK him. And both of these go at once if he's town.

If scum choose not to shoot Trollie, then fuck 'em, they lose.

I think Trollie's town. Really do. I'm not going to vote for him. Ever. If I'm still alive tomorrow, and Trollie stole the vote of someone else, he's not lynchable.

If scum want to shoot me over Trollie, more power to them, but will it get Trollie lynched? Fuck no. If I get shot, flip town, y'all better reread this post, see that I'm not bullshitting and then fucking not lynch Trollie.

Scum not shooting Trollie are losing the game for themselves, plain and simple.

[Magua]

He's at 2 votes (me and DGB).

Trollie, you know, 2 suspects would still be grand from you.

[Magua]

Zoidberg - 1 (Zoidberg)

Zoidberg.

I don't really like the personal insults, so I'm not going to call you a fucking moron.

But.

If you could stop acting like a fucking moron, that'd be really swell.

[Magua]

If you could elaborate on why you're worried about DGB's play/what about DGB's play worries you.

[Magua]

You say "going for the Kawaii lynch." What do you make of her recanting the Kawaii-scum argument and then jumping (second, after zoraster) onto SPB?