Gay Mafia II: RIDE THE LIGHTNING (Game Over)

[Iecerint]

WTF PAGE 18.

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I will try to get to this by the end of the day, or the end of the day tomorrow at the absolute latest. It's been a hectic few days at lab.

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OK FINALLY READING AND IT'S ON PAGE 42.

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After almost 5 hours of thread-reading, I am finally done. Fuck that. My notes are below. I'll summarize major points in a separate post with a reads list.

Zoidberg's 35 is the first early game post to rub the wrong way.

And again in 44...

MattP-hydra is town (51).

Nacho is town (56). Weaker town read on Om.

Why did a Modpost list 11 to win? Typo? EDIT: It looks like Nacho edited the post for some reason, maybe continuing the hammer-talk business.

Townreads on Drench and Om (~75).

TheTrollie is scummy. DGB is less scummy (~96).

Wait, did TheTrollie just claim scum in 132/135? O.o

I am a bit surprised that no one is voting for TheTrollie at this point.

WHOAAAA hyperbolic response from TheTrollie ouch. EDIT: Meh, daykill thread is well-taken. That makes some sense. I can see the TheTrollie I've seen elsewhere react this way in this situation as town.

BT is probably town.

Not sure why Ythan is so fixated on NobodySpecial when stuff has already happened.

Ythan implies that he's not played with NobodySpecial before or something...which...that's hard for me to imagine, but... (235).

Zoidberg is scummy (258). MattP is obvtown.

I like Ythan better now (~ end of page 11).

Quilford doesn't want a Zoidberg wagon for some reason (278). Not sure why he would feel this way.

All this MattP/TheTrollie false dichotomy stuff is annoying to me, but I think I might be extra annoyed by it because of a recent experience where[REDACTED]. So I'm trying to temper my annoyance a little.

Not sure why Ythan thinks Drench 228 is scum. I think Drench is town, and that post isn't really problematic to me.

Dunno why people think BT is scum. I sounds like some of it is meta; I've never played with him before.

Quilford explains that he doesn't think Zoidberg is scum because he's a newer player, which...I don't buy it, really. TheTrollie is newbtown-y, but Zoidberg isn't.

Kuribo's 326 is good.

MMMMMMM Quilford looks OK in the subsequent back-and-forth, though (~342). EDIT: Uererrrr, until 350. O.o

Null on vollkan despite leaning scum on Quilford. Kinda weird. Kuribo is probably town.

I think it's weird that Quilford's changed-but-not-any-better reason for his unvote assuages vollkan (369).

CHESSKID votes BT...

Om is obvtown, so I dunno what Faraday is doing in 395. I guess he says he's still reading, but Om was obvtown starting on page 4 or so, soooo I can't imagine why he'd do that. Will watch for any changes there. EDIT: joins BT, the other wagon I don't get.

I'm surprised TheTrollie is still sticking to MattP-scum, but I guess it's still Tuesday, and I can see townTrollie being irrational while his feelings are hurt. It'll be a red flag if he keeps sticking to this up through the current thread endpoint, though.

Faraday makes a post that I agree with (413).

BT's comeback posts don't make any sense. I can't even tell why he voted Quilford or unvoted CHESSKIDhydra.

I think Gamma is town. He's not been as obvobvtown as he was in Dynasty Warriors mafia, though (~463, but this is gut based on his sporadic posts rather than anything in this point).

Zoidberg's comeback (494) is actually pretty townie.

Ythan doesn't understand the BT wagon (503). Which would have been fine earlier, but his comeback posts were bad enough that I'm surprised he went there.

Ythan didn't like the Quilford wagon, either (518)? Which wagons did he like, then?

Not sure why Om thinks Nacho is town...I'm totally null on him...I can't even think of anything he's done since page 1. EDIT: Oh right, I had forgotten about the bread-loaves.

I don't understand. Has Om been posting for 25 pages without having read anything past page 5 (590)?

I'm disappointed at no Fate/DGB drama so far.

Nacho points out the sketchy BT posts after Om requests BT scumfax (607).

YAY Fate. <3

Well, that was weird. O.o (630).

Uhh. I still don't get it. EDIT: Oh, because he voted CHESSKIDhydra. I'd interpreted the votepost as a /wave. I guess you'd expect him to vote NS in the second post, though, so that's indeed pretty wonky. Loads and loads of votes for it, though.

TheTrollie backs off of MattP on Wednesday (643), using the excuse that his hydra-partner is town. TownTrollie's butthurt is wearing off.

Zoidberg is scummy again in 645. EDIT: Oh, I had missed that Trollie also unvoted without revoting, though. Meh, it doesn't change my impression. I think ScumTrollie would hang onto his MattP scumread indefinitely.

Ythan suddenly wants to lynch Trollie (663).

Zoidberg wagon is finally going a little (~690).

Thunderhog finally comeback posts. Does not like. Lots of noise, he's playing policeman on BT, ignores Wyrd's NS voinconsistency even though both Zoidberg and Om made it explicit (could've missed it, I guess, but he'd have to miss it several times), etc. Suspects BT and Zoid.

Kuribo agrees with me about Thunderhog (700). EDIT: And Ythan.

DeltaWave thinks Om and CHESSKIDhydra and Zoidberg are scum (710).

Dunno why Zoidberg is aggro on Ythan when Ythan is trying to understand Zoidberg.

Katsuki is all over lynching Fate.

Mmmmm interesting from Wyrd (782), but it's not like PretentiousHydra is the only hydra in the game. So that's dumb.

I hope DGB starts playing the game soon (800). I guess I haven't really posted yet, either, but...

DGB calls Wyrd town (811). EDIT: LOL @ her lynchplan in 811. Quietly, because it's late and my little brother goes to bed at 10 PM or whatever.

I remain totally mystified at Om's summary of page 14 (821). WTF.

Oh, I'd love Umbrage to replace in.

OOOOHHHHH the other hydras got PMs to each head (831). I don't see Fate lying about that, though.

Thunderhog still doesn't seem to understand the Wyrd wagon. You'd think he'd, ya know. Reread the quickwagon. Maybe see where TheTrollie and/or Om spell it out for him.

Gamma says Thunderhot is scum (846). EDIT: So does dram (847). Faraday sings a cute song (850).

DGB continues her antics. <_<

Katsuki suggests DGB-Wyrd (859).

The Zoidberg discussions remind me that he hasn't posted in ages. Granted, "ages" probably means about 12 hours in real-life terms.

BT returns, makes a pretty good post, votes Thunderhog for some reason. There's some anti-Thunderhog stuff in there, but idk whether the vote makes sense to me.

Om DISLIKES the BT post (869). I wish he would explain why. EDIT: Oh, sounds like Om is butthurt over pressure from BT ages ago that was minor enough that I don't even remember it.

Ooh, I like when Faraday gets all dominant (876).

Ythan doesn't like the BT post, either, or at least doesn't like the vote.

DGB is probably town (885).

Revelation of a hydra mega-thread is interesting. Would be interesting to see whether Fate was posting there. Sounds like not much, as he says he hasn't read it all. EDIT: WTF Whoaaaaa @ Fate's claim about "framing" him and everyone being all over it. That's crazy. I don't think any town player would do that, and I don't think any scum player would try it. I'll be looking out for what other hydrafolk say about it.

If Wyrd is town, I think Fate is right about which hydras are scum. Faraday-hydraScum wouldn't do that, but Katsuki or CHESSKID scum have the meta to maybe pull it off, and I doubt town would do something so stupid all on their own.

CHESSKIDHYDRA's post is bad. You need to give us much more than that after what Fate posted (905).

Wyrd's 910 is revealing if Wyrd is town, especially since MattP is obvtown.

OK, something weird is going on by 918. Paraphrase the goddamn QT. I do not understand the need for this vagueness.

Nuwen's entry posts sounds fine to me (from Wyrd, 934). That's not the kind of post you accidentally put in the wrong QT.

OK, why the hell would Nuwen subsequently advocate massclaim? That is dumb (CHESSKIDhydra's 936).

Zoidberg mirrors my thoughts in 937. This is very frustrating.

OK, Wyrd's 944 sounds more plausible than CHESSKID's Nuwen gloss in 936.

Ythan, Wyrd and CHESSKIDhydra have directly accused the other person of grossly misrepresenting what happened in the QT. Inappropriate editorializing has obviously occurred (945).

WHY THE HELL WON'T SOMEONE JUST PARAPHRASE THE SCUMSLIP GOD THIS IS SO RIDICULOUS. Both Fate and CHESSKID have paraphrased other stuff, so it's obviously acceptable. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine both CHESSKID and Katsuki making something like that up.

Fate, please paraphrase what has been interpreted as a scumslip. It's clear that SOMETHING happened because I don't understand both CHESSKID and Katsuki referring to something as such. (Though CHESSKID ludicrously called Nuwen's replace-in post a "scum claim" and didn't attest your characterization of it, sooooo.)

MattP finally posts, neglects to clarify anything. <_<

Ooh, trouble in paradise (984).

Zoraster posts, is apparently not playing the same game as the rest of us (985).

Faraday needs to explain his DGB vote (1049). I can't tell whether it's mainly a Wyrd unvote, or mainly a DGB vote.

Fuck you @ MattP in 1053. I've been reading this thread for over 4 hours and my boyfriend is pissed at me. STFU.

Oh, this is apparently Empire posting. Maybe that's why Faraday feels dodgier.

EDIT: Oh, nevermind. Faraday is just sleepy or something (1075).

WTF, why does DGB vote Faraday? I guess because he's been grouchy lately? Way to ruin one of my favorite townreads.

I agree with Wyrd in 1092. Katsuki or CHESSKID is much more plausible as the hydra-scum than Faraday. Faraday would not pull that shit regardless of alignment unless he was VERY SLEEPY, and then he would feel bad.

Aaaand Wyrd claims vengeful (1105).

DGB, if I'm not mistaken, you have criticized both Faraday and Katsuki of caught-wrong-reason squirming (1126). Which is it?

Dram suggests that townCHESSKID was the cause of all this foolishness. I really want to think better of CHESSKID when he's actually playing games. He's not a shit player.

[Iecerint]

TOWN
kuribo
Iecerint
Slumberpartybois (MattP)
dramonic
OneDirection
Gamma
Ythan
Om
BT
TheTrollie
DGB

NULL TO LEANING SCUM
NobodySpecial
DeltaWave
zoraster
whispersilk's slot
Nacho
Zoidberg* (was a strong scum read, but play in the last 10-15 pages was milder)
Thunderhog
Quilford
vollkan
Jacob Savage
Drench

FRUSTRATING RELATIONAL TELLS
Wyrd (Fate)
Kawaii (Katsuki)
Pretentiousdraa (CHESSKID)

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1. I apologize for being late to the party. I've had some academic responsibilities to deal with and haven't had a long enough block to catch up on the thread until this evening.

2. If you can't be bothered to read all my notes, please at least ctrl+f your name or whatever, because I have some questions for you guys littered throughout. It took me 5 hours to write them, so, ye know, please don't be a butthole.

3. @ Ythan:

A) Zoidberg's votepost bothered me because it did -- the bothering comes before the analysis. Here's the actual vote post. Looking back, the reason why it probably bothered me is that the tone of the post evokes "random carefreeness" when it's obvious that he's actually following the crowd, which is the opposite of random carefreeness. This kind of early-game thing is more likely to come from scum

B) Early townread on Om is gut. Call it the opposite of the early scumread on Zoidberg. Looking back, it's probably because he was posting very openly in a context that I think would be stressful to a less mature player. He's maintained this trend throughout the entire game. I feel relatively strongly about this read.

C) My comment you're referring to is not objecting to the CONTENT of what you said about NS, but about the FACT that you were focusing on NS. It seemed like you were ignoring lots of much more compelling (to me) thread content. This was strange to me, so I made a note of it.

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Not sure why Ythan thinks Drench 228 is scum. I think Drench is town, and that post isn't really problematic to me.

how did you go from this to having drench at the bottom of your scum list?

1. Players are in order based on their listing on page 1. I went down the list and assigned players to lists.

2. My scumlist is really a null-list. It only adds leaning-scum because I have strong town reads. I had strong scumreads in the game until all the Wyrd revelations, and that fucked everything up.

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OK, so here's what needs to happen and should have happened 10 pages ago:

Kawaii, SPB, OD, and CHESSKIDhydra need to ALL indicate whether Fate scumslipped in the QT. This should have been posted immediately way way back when it happened, or at least after the hydra QT was outed. Paraphrasing is obviously permitted, so either paraphrase it or say what's what.

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Ythan, Wyrd and CHESSKIDhydra have directly accused the other person of grossly misrepresenting what happened in the QT. Inappropriate editorializing has obviously occurred (945).

Does what I said not make perfectly clear sense to you?

You criticized Zoidberg for wanting a clearer picture of what happened. I think all sane players wanted the same thing at that point in the game.

Your point that players would not editorialize inappropriately because they would be called out, while true in a Platonic mafia world, does not apply here because IT HAS NOT HAPPENED. CHESSKIDhydra and/or Wyrd is NECESSARILY radically editorializing, but OD and SPB have declined/refused to clarify.

Scumslips in QTs do happen, and they're free lynches when they do, but OD/SPB's play makes me need to know what is going on. The bizarre bullying that Wyrd proposes is the alternate possibility that, if true, shakes up many of my reads up to that point, but it's crazy for me to believe that that many hydra players are such terrible mafia players, especially some players I respect, so I still want clarity.

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You just criticized a post and immediately turned around and wondered why Om did the same.

The BT post itself was fine; the Thunderhog vote was iffy only because the wagon didn't exist and IIRC he had suspicions for another player who had a bit of a wagon already (which'll be easier to interpret after a few flips).

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Ergo if they DON'T get called out they probably didn't do it. Unless they're all on the same team or the townies were feeling forgiving? idk

It is IMPOSSIBLE for both Wyrd and CHESSKIDhydra to be presenting the QT content in an appropriate manner. IMPOSSIBLE.

AT LEAST one of them is bogus.

My GUESS is that CHESSKID is bogus, because I doubt SPB and OD would demure if Wyrd had really scumslipped. That would be retarded on their part. A scumslip is a scumslip.

But Wyrd being the truth-teller means that a bunch of town players wanted to bully Fate for the lolz, including MattP and Faraday, and that pisses me off so much that I don't think it's true, either. IDK maybe they're just embarrassed now or something and that's why they won't clarify.

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No I hadn't been posting for that long in the game without having read anything, I had just kinda skimmed my way along and generalised a lot of things, tat was my way of going in depth to see if I had missed things that I didn't see before.

Thanks.

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ic pls let me know when u decide on some scumreads : ]

If you can tell me who's bullshitting between CHESSKIDhydra and Wyrd, I'll have a very clear D1 scumread and lynchvote.

This will also give me the information I need to either go back to my original set of reads, or construct new ones.

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I remain totally mystified at Om's summary of page 14 (821). WTF.

idgi it makes sense to me. Like I went back to it expecting to see and looking for something insensible and didn't see it.

It's not that the content was mysterious, it's that Om, who'd been one of the most active posters in the game, was doing some unnecessary Days Of Our Lives recap on page 5 for no reason I could discern.

He's now clarified that there was basically no reason other than to document his work on a review/have notes/whatever.

[Iecerint]

DGB: Kawaii vs. OneDirection vs. CHESSKIDhydra -- Why is OneDirection the (top) scum?

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Mmmmm interesting from Wyrd (782), but it's not like PretentiousHydra is the only hydra in the game. So that's dumb.

I didn't even think of this. This is a good point I think?

It makes Wyrd's point dumb, but I don't think it has much to do with Wyrd's alignment. I think it just shows that Wyrd was pissed at CHESSKID and not thinking clearly, which is probably understandable regardless of whether he was mad at himself for scumslipping or mad at CHESSKID for being an asshat.

At the time I was still halfway in the "Wyrd-scum" camp, cuz that's where I was leaning up until OD and SPB's reactions to the Wyrd revelations made it clearer that something was going on.

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OK, so, almost 6 hours (lol) after starting my readthrough, I am going to bed.

Now I have to wake up in the morning and go to clinic.

Post 15 more pages for me to read tomorrow plz.

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The QT makes it clear that Fate's description of what was going on was basically accurate. There's no way that that entire mentality came from town. The next step is to identify which hydra is scum.

TownKatsuki actually faked an (inaccurate) guilty on me once as town, so I can imagine Katsuki just being a mean asshat town player with an inflated opinion of his own skill. I don't know if CHESSKID has ever done or contemplated something so stupid as town, but he has the kind of ego where I wouldn't totally put it past him.

TownFaraday would not have let that happen, let alone propose it, and if he meant the proposal as a joke (regardless of alignment), as town he would have stopped it before things got out of hand. The fact that he let it go like that totally changes my read. I think he's the most likely hydra scum.

Vote: One Direction

[Iecerint]

Let

what

happen? Nothing came of it? (Also Scum!Faraday wouldn't propose that and you should actually know that)

I'm shocked that ANY Faraday would propose or support it, but you did. Before seeing the QT, I had assumed that someone else mentioned it and you just kinda sidelined. But you're in fact the first person to propose it if I'm reading correctly.

I think the proposal itself is pretty null with respect to your alignment, though I could possibly see townFaraday suggesting it as a joke. The scummy part is that you didn't tamp things down when people (mostly Kawaii and CHESSKID) kept taking it seriously (all in the QT).

And yeah, nothing came of it, but only because Fate claimed it in the thread.

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I mean do you think there's any actual point where fate WOULDN'T have claimed it in the thread? What do you think I expected to get out of it as scum? Fate dead? If I was that afraid of him I'd just night kill him?

I think you originally meant it as a joke and then neglected to clarify when it was headed in an anti-town way without your further involvement. Well, I KNOW you did that (joke benefit-of-the-doubt notwithstanding), but I'm assuming the reason you didn't clarify is because you're scum.

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What you did was sneaky, not sloppy. You were letting CHESSKID and Katsuki be the public face of the wagon.

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1. If CHESSKID or Kawaii tried to blame you for a Wyrd town flip after what they did in-thread, they would be lynched immediately.

2. Your initial proposal was in keeping with the jokey context of the QT thread and was pretty blameless/construable as a joke on its own, so I don't think your attempts to construe it as "too edgy for FaradayScum" makes sense, either.

PEDIT -- Vollkan's saying he agrees with my reasoning on OneDirection.

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hey iec please be a cool dude for me who shares interesting opinions on people that aren't hydras

I think I would really have to have a compelling reason to lynch someone who isn't in [OneDirection, PretentiousHydra, Kawaii] today. I would basically only do it at deadline.

Looking through the playerlist, I don't have particularly warm feelings about Drench, Quilford, or maybe Nacho, though it's just gut. I think it's that they either don't seem to want to engage with the game or seem focused on aspects of the game that I don't find as compelling. Seems funky.

I thought Zoidberg was scum until the post-Wyrd stuff, when he became the only sane man in the game. It felt genuine. I also agree with DGB about his "anger cool-down" post. Ythan I thought was town until his Wyrd vote, which I'm not convinced by despite his "Wyrd saga knowledge made me vote Wyrd" story, since I had the opposite impression at the time.

Thunderhog had one really scummy post, but the stuff after that hasn't bothered me as much. I don't think BT is scummy. I'm pretty null on DeltaWave/Zoraster/whisperslot/JacobSavage. The rest are town reads.

[Iecerint]

OD, do you think the hydra QT is all town?

Nacho, TheTrollie, Quilford, and Thunderhog should place a vote.

[Iecerint]

Since Iec seems to demand I place a vote, I'm going to put it right back where it was before.

O_o

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@ BT, I would be voting Kawaii over OD were it not for the fact that I have literally played in a game where KatsukiTown faked a guilty on me (cf., Final Fantasy VI mafia).

[Iecerint]

Iecerint:

OD, do you think the hydra QT is all town?

What was the purpose of this question? (You never followed up on it and it looks like a question just literally for the sake of it, since I thought my stance on individual hydra members was pretty clear)

I assumed that anyone would assume that the hydra-QT revelations were partially scum-driven and noticed that you did not seem to be thinking very critically about the hydra-scum and were instead focused on players like DGB, so I thought I'd ask you this directly to make you comment on the other hydras. A townHydra who thinks 1+ hydra are scum has relatively good odds of finding scumHydras, so I would expect townHydras to focus on the hydras.

The fact that you don't think any hydras are scum messes up the logic, though, so I didn't follow-up with it.

[Iecerint]

I'm sorry, who are you? Since you actually used the term 'our', I'm going to assume that you're one of the hydra heads of Iec - if I'm wrong correct me.

I am not a hydra. Katsuki is half of Kawaii. The hydras are SPB, Kawaii, OD, Wyrd, and Pretentioushydra.

Not only that, but wasn't there like 8 or 9 people that voted for Wyrd "like 40 pages ago"? I don't see you questioning any of them... Hell, if I remember correctly the first vote on him was simply based on nothing more than, "He's scum, get him!!!"

You keep saying this, but it's not true. Wyrd was voted for 2 reasons. The reason-less votes (we now know) were based on stuff from the hydra QT. You can read the QT that Wyrd posted to evaluate the basis of those votes yourself; I think they were pretty bogus. But there were also some slightly-more-reasonable votes (e.g., in trying to understand the reason-less votes, some non-hydras like Trollie and Zoidberg IIRC noticed that Wyrd had voted PretentiousHydra and then called DGB scummy for lurking, which they saw as inconsistency).

[Iecerint]

...what does Zoraster unvoting Thunderhog have to do with how many scumteams there are? O.o

[Iecerint]

Looking over TH, the main new stuff I see is that his posts are very defensive and can have a tone that doesn't seem very town-oriented (mocking Gamma as a "seeker o' scum" in 1610 is a big one). I can see that, but I also think a handful of what he's down is kinda newbtownie. For example, I don't see the scum motivations in his votes for Wyrd or Gamma. I guess it could just be bad scum play.

I'd be OK with Thunderhog at deadline if need be. I don't think he'd be a very tragic mislynch as the WCS. Still, but I'd prefer a hydralynch. I think we have a decent shot of hitting scum from any of those three. It's more high risk/reward, but I think it's worth it given what transpired, and Faraday's "wouldn't do that as scum" stuff doesn't convince me (e.g., as it ignores why he'd do it as town).

[Iecerint]

/feelsyrpain

[Iecerint]

Wheeeeee.

Looking back, Zora and JacobSavage look sketchy with regard to how things played out (i.e., Zora for the unvote/revoteunderpressure business, which is suspicious in hindsight, and JacobSavage for the 11th hour vote that cross-supplied "Zora's good case" secondary to Zora's pressure-related revote). Though I might have expected JacobSavage to be more careful about L-1ing his scumfriend, so there's that.

The fact that the hydra alternawagon was kinda split around toward the end of the day makes me think (moar) that exactly one of the wagoned hydras, probably Kawaii > OD > PH > Wyrd, is scum. I would have expected an alternawagon to have built up more conventionally if both were town, especially after ThunderHog rhetoric started going. The players voting whichever one ultimately flips scum were probably mostly town.

[Iecerint]

I think NM means Nacho.

[Iecerint]

Why is TheTrollie on your scum list?

[Iecerint]

I hope DGB un-replaces out given the revelation that it was just copypasta has come out.

VOTE: JacobSavage

I'd lynch JacobSavage before DGB. Both have potentially problematic links to TH (i.e., soft-defense/ignoring from DGB, very bad late vote from JS), but I can believe DGB being town with them more easily because she was actively trying to lynch slots that I think could still flip scum.

Her weirdly-unfocused (rather than townDGBly-unfocused) freak-out today shook my faith a little, but I still have a gut town read on her, so I don't want to lynch her unless there's a compelling reason for her above and beyond others.

[Iecerint]

Voting lots of people and jumping from suspect to suspect is part of DGB's method as town, though I usually have an easier time following why she discards and holds onto select reads.

My "usually" is an n = 1 game from like 2009, though (i.e., Slicey's Kingdom Hearts), so it's maybe not valid anymore.

[Iecerint]

Little evidence of scumhunting, poorly-reasoned late vote for scumTH when his lynch looked inevitable.

[Iecerint]

Little evidence of scumhunting, poorly-reasoned late vote for scumTH when his lynch looked inevitable.

I think this is it hold on

???

[Iecerint]

I don't remember playing with lurker-zoro as either alignment, so I don't know what to make of it one way or the other.

[Iecerint]

@ TBM -- Have you read the entire thread? I think you'll come around on Zoidberg as you get to page 30 or so.

[Iecerint]

Vote: Ythan

[Iecerint]

Vote: Ythan

An actor is a role that is modkilled unless the vote is a hammer. So his claim could basically be taken at face value.

[Iecerint]

Om was obvtown from D1. The fact that all 3 of the others are town surprises me, and the fact that Faraday was town makes me more than a little bit sad.

Looking back at the ThunderHog wagon (zoro-town due to Om):

vollkan,

Gammagooey

, Zoidberg, Wyrd, Kawaii, TheTrollie,

kuribo, Om of the Nom

, Mini-Librarian,

zoraster

, dramonic,

JacobSavage, Nachomamma8

Vote: dramonic

NS looks town in iso, though ML

is kinda null

doesn't really do anything to change my perspective. Dram looks pretty scummy. He "attacks" Thunderhog a little, but the only thing of substance he does re: this is ask BT and Thunderhog to post about one-another (cf., 697, Thunderhog's response to it), and then he votes BT until the 11th hour.

I don't understand the SK spec, soo.... EDIT: OK, I now see that FBI Agents are standard roles that investigate Serial Killers. It looks like his first D2 post is probably the DGB crumb. I don't see anything D3, though. Still dunno where the dram/Trollie thing comes from, though.

[Iecerint]

I'm pretty damn sure I was voting OD for a good part of day 1 <_<

You're right, my mistake, but the point is that a) you didn't meaningfully commit to Thunderhog until the 11th hour despite your rhetoric and b) your attacks on him up to that point weren't really attacks.

Pedit: Yes, Om has been obvtown all game. He's not crafty enough to be scum with that kind of posting style early game. I remember getting a townread on him from his first posts during my catch-up readthrough. Someone else asked me this same question after my catch-up post, IIRC.

Pedit x2: @ ML, I remembered the late TH wagon being really rushed, especially toward the end, and it's our only non-foregone-conclusion wagon, so I thought I'd start doing isos from there to see if I could find anything after the flips today. I did NS/you first, then TH/Ythan looking for you, then dram, then I posted.

[Iecerint]

I don't expect you to have voted for ThunderHog at all if he wasn't your top suspect, but that's kind of my point. And this "last resort" talk is silly because we were nowhere near deadline.

If you thought someone else was a better lynch than TH, why switch to TH at all?

[Iecerint]

Unvote

Nothing happened to me N1 AFAIK. I see no reason to disbelieve either claim, though, as they've both been corroborated by at least one player.

The only thing about this that makes me a little uncomfy is that in retrospect I don't know why SPB would have been hesitant about claiming his non-Pdra actions. When he was reticent at first, I assumed that his eventual claim would make this obvious, but it didn't. His other actions were apparently targeting me and Wyrd and not knowing what would happen.

[Iecerint]

I actually agree with whatever Phydra head noticed this:

there is literally no way [DW] does not hang today, not after [DW's] HOWD YOU SLEEP YTHAN on day 2

Delta's explanation that his Ythan attitude changed during N1 doesn't jive with this. This was after N1.

His D2 post don't make it sound like he just tried to kill Ythan. Also, it looks like DeltaWave mostly focused on JacobSavage after my D1 twilight spec at the start of D2 (see below):

Spoiler:

VOTE: JacobSavage

This is the obvious choice for today.

is it in dgb's townmeta to implode like this? y/n

you know, if you are town, going down in a ball of flames while pointing the finger at the people who voted for you isn't going to help one bit

fyi the pattern thing is hilarious

hey look at that, jacobsavage is reading the thread. how are you jake?

JS is the play today.

On an unrelated note, how did you sleep last night Ythan?

[Iecerint]

What is your

p

the probability of?

[Iecerint]

It looks like Bella replaced Drench.

[Iecerint]

i know ive often ranted against VCA in the past, but putting that aside - why is it that i rate so high? if its due to minimal voting, keep in mind that, as i think you well know, thats part of how i play

People who score high are on lots of wagons where few scum have already flipped and many town have already flipped, especially if they were "easy" wagons. DGB doesn't correct for voting volume at all, so low voting volume will tend to make your score show up lower rather than higher. She thinks scum vote for wagons more, anyway, so it doesn't bother her.

Taking the numbers game this seriously (AFAICT) is probably a towntell for DGB. I've been scum with her where she fakes it as scum, and the difference is usually pretty clear (e.g., she'll minimize how much junk she presents and only use the parts that supports whatever she wants to happen). I haven't played with DGB-scum in ages, though. Anyway, I've had a mild town read on DGB all game, and it's promoted to a stronger one now.

I don't agree with her lynch targets, though, mainly because I don't think one of SPB and DW is necessarily scum. The main "spooky" thing about them is that their roles are so similar, but the fact that both abilities have been corroborated makes this less spooky than it might otherwise be. I think it's more likely that there are two similar roles in the game than that Reck gave a duplicated rolename as a fakeclaim (or that scum ignored a fakeclaim).

Dram is a good lynch. Refer to my posts earlier today.

Vote: dramonic

[Iecerint]

Well when did someone corroborate SPB's claim?

Someone apparently DID visit Wyrd and left him a golden girls video.

I had thought the Golden Girls video was due to SPB's action...?

[Iecerint]

Why does DW think he was redirected? I thought TBM had verified that stuff happened to him?

[Iecerint]

Understood.

[Iecerint]

IIRC, Kawaii changing its attitude D1 might have coincided with Kise starting to post more after a lot of Katsuki before that. I remembered because Kise seemed like less of a crazy person to me at the time re: the Wyrd fiasco.

[Iecerint]

I could easily see KatsukiScum with WyrdTown, but WyrdScum really changes my perspective. I have a hard time believing that a Wyrd+Katsuki scumteam would have led to what happened D1. It looked like mean meta-site stuff to me -- not like bussing.

I need to re-read D1 with WyrdScum in mind.

[Iecerint]

Vote: SPB

Easier to believe than Kawaii, I guess. SPB participated in the Wyrd-thing, too, but there were some "let me get this straight" moments, too, whereas Katsuki was pretty relentless.

[Iecerint]

A google image search for "gay sex hammer" leads to interesting results.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: Vollkan

I think dram's unlikely to be scum based on the timing of his vote yesterday. I think DGB, zora, and Zoidberg are town. Magua/BT slot is pretty town, too. Vollkan and Trollie remain. I don't think Trollie was scum with SPB, so I'd rather lynch vollkan.

Pedit: Hmmmmmmm well, DGB's case on Zoidberg is actually pretty good. Hadn't really questioned my read. I don't think skepticism about the dichotomy would be too scummy on its own, but its problematic in concert with the "facts" post that framed things in SPB's favor.

Zoidberg iso -->

[Iecerint]

I would prefer to wait exactly 1 day before massclaim.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, DGB's case is pretty solid. Something else that stood out to me is that Zoidberg has a pretty scummy read on SPB early D1, which just makes the cognitive dissonance from framing things to favor DW more dissonant.

matts read was already reversing by then so we didnt press him on it plus his whole reaction and handling of the claim and followup felt p genuinely town to me.

Translation: Trollie claimed protown PR so I shut the fuck up real quick, content with having a nightkill target tonight.

This quote also reminded me that Trollie is alive since D1 despite his crumb soooooooooo that is kinda starting to stretch SoD for me. Makes me start to rethink dram's question. I guess it can wait a day if we're lynching Zoidberg, anyway, though. It might work itself out.

Unvote
Vote: Zoidberg

[Iecerint]

Main case on Trollie I see is that he's not dead despite his D1 softclaim. You could explain it away with the other claims up to a point, but it's starting to get a little zany, especially once you're reminded that his softclaim came out during a back-and-forth with SPB (i.e., so it's unlikely scum would miss/forget it).

The back-and-forth itself didn't look faked to me, though, so I don't think SPB and Trollie are scum together. I like your case on Zoidberg better. Trollie could be the SK possibly, but I'd rather deal with someone who's more likely to be mafia unless the SK is way disproportionately probable.

[Iecerint]

Zoidberg, the case on you is related mainly to your interactions with known scum -- not whether you have sent dick pics successfully in the past.

Whether you sent dick pics is mostly unrelated to your alignment (though it does show you probably didn't submit a kill those nights).

I don't know what a Mafia Scribe is tbh, and I can't find it on the wiki. I assume they're scum who send messages at night?

[Iecerint]

It could be that you were paranoid that someone has a problematic track on you some day or other, so you were leaving open a back-door to explain any weirdness that people challenged you with.

You can almost always come up with a reason why vagueness might benefit scum, but it's rarer that it's clear why vagueness would benefit town.

Pedit: Why did you think Vollkan was pro-town? O.o

[Iecerint]

Did Ythan ever claim receiving it? I don't see anything via quick iso.

I know some other players claimed receiving it.

[Iecerint]

- Unless there's more than one mafia left alive, with Iecerint having confirmed getting the dick text last Night, I do not believe Zoidberg could have performed the kill. I don't believe there's more than one mafia left alive. So.

Scum can usually action + NK if they're the last one left, so I don't think the presence of dicktexts makes Zoidberg town -- it just confirms that his action is to send dicktexts (which we knew anyway). (Also, that was vollkan, not me.)

- D1 votes from the Mafia onto Zoidberg do not seem like bussing.

Will check this.

[Iecerint]

Is that really all that ever came of the D1 Zoidberg wagon? I guess it's just that I wanted to lynch him during the first half of my readthrough.

Here's the Ythan stuff. The gist is that he does devote a lot of posts to Zoidberg, but a lot of it is pretty coach-y AFAICT, so I dunno if volume is where Magua was coming from, but.

Spoiler:

ALL I HAVE IS HAMMERS
SO I'M DISHING IT OUT LIKE ITS CHRISTMAS MOTHER FUCKING DAY

ALL I HAVE IS HAMMERS
AND WHEN I HAMMER IT IS GOING TO BE FABULOUS

so don't let nobody get to L-1
nobody

like, don't pull any L-1 claim business no
in this game there's an intent to L-1
because as soon as that L-1 comes, I'm on it
might be gay but i AINT NO BITCH

You can stop breadcrumbing now.

I don't even get the point of this post.

Holy fuck the signal:noise ratio in here is REALLY low.

Or this one.

hey zoidberg what do you think about the whole trollie v. bois thing

Honestly I'm still trying to parse it, and it's making my head hurt. Currrently I'd stand in line for an SPBz lynch before a Trollie lynch, though.

Why?

well dont keep it a secret darling, share them with us! i am very interested in every single one of your reads : )

+1

For someone who complains about noise and +1s transparency you're not being very useful.

Ythan what are these profile activity observations actually achieving?

Nothing, unless he srsly expects the first 8 pages of drivel to yield much.

This is bad.

vote Zoidberg

Why?

Because I find bois to be marginally more scum than Trollie? I would think that would be self-evident.

Why? Don't be dumb.

Why? Don't be dumb.

I've already outlined it. Don't be dumb.

Contrary to Om I think there's exactly one scum between Trollie and Bois. As I outlined before, to me it reads like Bois was pushing for a quick hammer using faulty meta. Especially in light of the way he STFU real quick once Trollie claimed. I notice with great interest that you skimmed right over that part in your attempt to paint me as scum.

Your read is fabricated and your attempt to smear me is pathetic.

Also I directly referenced the incident you're referring to here btw.

Don't just jump back to the one post suggesting you not be lynched it just looks like you're not even taking the game seriously.

Post more irrelevant stuff about who was online when.

Not one post I have made in this game was less relevant than this one of yours. You're just lashing out with no useful motivation.

I notice with great interest that you skimmed right over that part in your attempt to paint me as scum.

This is literally a scum claim are you even serious.

Here's Thunderhog's. The gist is that he voted Zoidberg for unclear reasons and then revoted him when I asked him who he thought was scum.

Spoiler:

Yeah, this post can die too.

Huh?! How can a post die? Not sure

exactly

what you mean...

Bad.

If this is what you were trying to say Kuribo, then now I understand. Could've just went all caveman and said it like this...

p-edit 2: Geez guys, shut up so I can post!!! As much as I think BT is scummy, I'm soon going to be willing to move my vote to Zoid. I'll readdress my case against BT at a later date if need-be.

Soon but not now?

Good point.

Unvote: BT; Vote: Zoid

[/quote]

(1) Large theme
(2) Reck game

(3) NS has basically fessed 3rd party

(4) A hammertime alternative wincon

I'm assuming multiball until proof I'm wrong.

Wait a minute... In reference to the bolded part, did you mean "NM", or did you actually mean NS? If you meant NS, can you point out where, cuz I'm not seeing it...

I mean, NS said he was town and that his blatant sarcasm was 'role-related'. No where did he mention third party...

and...

If you actually meant NM, then why can't NM just be a town with only hammers?

I've already started falling behind in this and finals are mon-thurs so I'm anticipating it's only gonna get worse, so

V/LA til Friday

Aren't you a hydra though? You're telling me that both / all of you are V/LA until Friday? I find that rather difficult to believe...

Other than that, have some one-liner and random reads:

OD = Town lean - I really don't see why there are so many votes there.
NM = Town slightly-further-than-leaning - Despite low post count, actually seems to be scumhunting. Seems to be one of the only ones too...
Kawaii = An arrogant jerkoff. I'm gonna put you in the same column as P-dra.

Since Iec seems to demand I place a vote, I'm going to put it right back where it was before.

Vote: Zoid

Magua, please specify what I am missing.

[Iecerint]

Zoidberg, dram is probably not mafia. Look at his iso, in particular his vote for SPB yesterday. That's not something you do D5 when you've already lost several scumfriends.

[Iecerint]

The votechanger isn't the following:

04. Iecerint

05. zoraster
09. dramonic

14. Zoidberg

17. vollkan
22. Magua BT
23. TheTrollie

24. DrippingGoofball

It could also have been SPB (flipped JOAT).

[Iecerint]

Vote shenanigans are *highly* likely to either be SPB, or to be

DeasVail

(who had died that same Night).

Huh?

The Fruit Vendor still has a function in that it clears Zoidberg of any other mafia night-functions (e.g., he couldn't have been the roleblocker). But it's irrelevant if there's a strong precedent for Fruit Vendor getting special treatment. I'll check out the Author mafia game you mention.

[Iecerint]

Magua, AFAICT, Author Mafia doesn't treat the Fruit Vendor role in a special way -- rather, that game prevents scum from using their ability + kill at all times, regardless of the scum ability. It has nothing to do with the ability being a Fruit Vendor. (I'm just basing it on reading the role PMs, though, so correct me if I'm mistaken.)

If anything, the existence of that game makes Mafia Fruit Vendor somewhat more likely IMO because Reck was apparently one of the alts in that game (EDIT: though it looks like Reck was town and the mafia FV didn't flip until January 2013, so that moderates that some).

[Iecerint]

vote

Was this confirmed?

It looks like Trollie only has the extra vote in the VC a few posts before the dram quote. All the other VCs D4 have him as not voting, though.

Any error in that VC should probably be corrected

.

[Iecerint]

Did you also have an extra vote on D4 (re: that dram post DGB quoted)?

[Iecerint]

Still waiting on Trollie.

[Iecerint]

Unvote
Vote: TheTrollie

[Iecerint]

Trollie is either scum or he has had absurdly bad luck with his target choices.

[Iecerint]

My point is that he is probably scum. The only real argument to the contrary I can see is "why would scum even claim this," but that's washed out for me by DGB's information crumbs.

Dram had been trying to get a wagon going on Trollie all day. I don't know much about vollkan or zora's reads, though.

[Iecerint]

depends on ur reasons

Can we please lynch him?

[Iecerint]

OK, well, you can just continue your back-and-forth with a player you've already said you don't want to lynch absent a scumclaim, I guess. Maybe whatever you're trying to do will become obvious to me if you keep it going for long enough.

Zoidberg, do you still think dram is scum?

[Iecerint]

I don't think tactical-lynching zora makes much sense because AFAICT it's only a move that makes sense if Trollie is scum (i.e., because he's only quicklynchable by TrollieScum, unless the SK and mafia team up). The presence of 2 kills means that lynching hatedZora takes us from maybe-lylo to definitely-lylo.

[Iecerint]

You're right -- I was thinking about tomorrow with the doublevote and forgetting to also think about D8. My bad.

[Iecerint]

The scenario iece suggested has trillie scum, theres no "unless he's town" option in it :p
I understand the zoraster issue, let me think bout it when im not phoneposting

Well, Trollietown presumably wouldn't quicklynch Zora. But I missed that Zora would still be around in 3 man lylo.

[Iecerint]

I think the extra Trollie vote was D4 and vollkan lost his vote D5. So maybe it was just a VC error on D4?

[Iecerint]

He is giving an example of Trollie voting while Vollkan had his vote gone and his vote only being counted as 1 vote.

The point is that it is consistent with the extra vote not being reflected in VCs.

[Iecerint]

@ Magua, here's the relevant VC:

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[Iecerint]

If we assume the Mod error reflects mistakenly including Trollie's doublevote twice explicitly, I think this makes it pretty likely that his ability is multishot (or at least more than 1-shot). That VC was D4 (with deadJS's vote), but Vollkan lost his vote D5. So it's only possible for those events to be related if Trollie steals votes from the future, which is zany.

Pedit: We've already asked the Mods about that like 4 times. Dram made a post about it a little bit farther down on the same page, DGB linked to Dram's post earlier today, and I commented on her linking of said post earlier today. Though I mean moar asking is fine, I guess.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: only possible while Trollie is 1-shot*

[Iecerint]

Man, with a bookie in the setup youd think scum would have some form of vote manipulation

Remind me what a bookie even does? In my head it's a commuter variant (dunno why), but I guess that's not right as I don't see the connection with what you've listed, and I can't find it on the wiki.

[Iecerint]

Google leads to a thread from 2008 about a hypo-Bookie role that got extra abilities if it predicted the subequent lynch target or something...

[Iecerint]

Looks like Trollie's vote how shows up twice here (D4), too:

Votecount 5.2

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[Iecerint]

EBWOP: D5

[Iecerint]

I don't understand. If you don't send a PM, then your vote remains public? Is the publicness of your vote something you can choose?

[Iecerint]

*Really* curious about Iecerint's thoughts about lynching Trollie now that the double vote is confirmed.

I think you are missing that the Mods clarified that listing Trollie's vote twice was NOT an error. This departs from Trollie's explanation of how his ability works and makes me want to lynch him more, not less. Either he's lying about how ability works, or he misunderstood it.

Pedit: Trollie, answer my question.

[Iecerint]

Votecount 5.4

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Mod error?

[Iecerint]

@ Magua -- Trollie may be killed N6, but I do not think it's as fullproof as you appear to. There are a lot of factors in play. If he's mafia-scum, SK-scum could play a "make them lynch him" game analogous to what you're proposing. If he's SK-scum, mafia will probably be less likely to try to NK him. And both of these go at once if he's town.

I think the policy-lynch argument on zora is more persuasive than the policy-not-lynch argument on Trollie.

Pedit -- I'm not against voting vollkan...vollkan was my initial vote of the day before DGB's case on Zoid. I would say zora ~> Trollie (pending no more Mod error issues > vollkan >>>>>>> others.

I think Trollie is more likely to be scum than vollkan, but I can appreciate that there's some math/long-game reasons to bias that match-up in Trollie's favor, so I can understand lynching vollkan. I think both are more likely to be scum than Zora, but I think the math for lynching Zora is relatively compelling.

Zoidberg looks like it isn't happening, buttttt I think I'd rather lynch Trollie or Vollkan if we don't lynch Zora, anyway, so...

[Iecerint]

Vote: Vollkan

Hammered, probably.

[Iecerint]

After working it out, I actually believe the only way for town to win, assuming we are in a 3:1:1 situation, is to have both scum kill each other simultaneously. Our odds for this are BEST if we lynch a non-zoraster TOWN today, slightly worse if we lynch a zoraster town today, and worse still if we no lynch.

Where are you getting a difference between lynching zoraTown and otherTown? The only difference I can see there is that zoraTown in 1:1:1 makes it a race to quicklynch zora, and otherTown in 1:1:1 makes otherTown the kingmaker.

The rest makes sense, but it assumes we have no kill-stopping mechanism N7 (and that you are hatedtown, obv). I think we can actually still win if we both lynch scum and correctly identify the remaining scum today. This will put us at 3:1 tomorrow, and caughtScum won't be able to quicklynch zora as zora will still require 2 votes to lynch.

EDIT: So, I'm fine with claiming first, and I had a full-claim typed out here, but I think I'd like to try asking Dram one thing before I post it:

@ Dram

, who did you *target* last night (N6)? Target only. You can refuse to answer if you want, but I want to see what you say.

[Iecerint]

Zora, I think my claim will potentially modulate some of your numbers, so you might want to wait to do the full number-crunching game.

But I may be missing something, so.

[Iecerint]

Gotcha, that does make sense.

I think numbers-modulation will still happen. Waiting on dram.

If anyone takes issue with my going first, feel free to voice as much. I get the sense that the main utility of my going near-last is already mitigated a little by softclaims that have already been put down today, though.

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See that's another thing that bugs. You kept in the background the whole game, low-key, and YOU never said, hey guys, I need to be lynched. WHY

This situation today would be different if we had lynched scum D6.

[Iecerint]

OK, so, I am

Adam Lambert, Overburdened Jack of all Trades

. I didn't get any kind of ability list when the game started. Instead, the Mods send me a PM at the start of each night with 4 abilities to choose from. The abilities change each night, and they have little flavor names. I must choose an ability each night or be modkilled. The abilities are all described prosaically (e.g., "stop who you target from performing actions" rather than "roleblock"), but I'm listing the abilities by their effect below to save space:

N1 I had a choice between removing someone's vote (If I Had You), giving someone a double action (Mad World), roleblock (Chokehold), or tracker (Tracks of My Tears).

I gave Om a double-action

because he was my strongest town read at the time, and the read was orthogonal to the Wyrd fiasco.

N2 I was given a choice between a roleblock (Naked Love), framer (Black or White), another tracker (Sleepwalker), or something where my target could only vote and quote other players the following day (Whataya Want from Me).

I roleblocked Ythan

. I can only assume that roleblocks can't be roleblocked in this ruleset, since PH claimed he was roleblocked N2, and Ythan flipped roleblocker. I have asked the Mods for ruleset clarification on this several times, but they've never really given me a straight answer. Maybe they'll clarify this now that I've posted this; I guess it took like 4 times for them to respond to the vote count errors yesterday.

N3 I was given a choice between a jailkeep (Pop That Lock), a doctor (Ring of Fire), another watcher (Never Close My Eyes), or another double action (Born To Be Wild).

I doctored PretentiousHydra

, as the Bodyguard had already died.

N4 I was given a choice between another framer (Shady), another watcher (Better Than I Know Myself), another jailkeep (Broken Open), or an ability that would turn my target's action, if present, into a kill that night (For Your Entertainment).

I watched PretentiousHydra and got NO RESULT

. This is the night that PretentiousHydra died, so he was obviously targeted. One of the unflipped scum may be a ninja, or else my ability was messed with in some way.

N5 I was given a choice between removing someone's vote (If I Had You), a roleblock (Chokehold), or tracker (Tracks of My Tears). In other words, I had the same options as N1, minus the double-action.

I tracked Magua (no result)

, which is why I was relatively sure Magua was town yesterday. The fact that I got the N1 options is why I wanted to wait exactly 1 day to claim, as I guessed I'd have another track available N6 and I could confirm/catch someone else.

N6 I indeed was given a choice between framer, tracker, and target-can't-post-normally-the-next-day.

I tracked dramonic and found that he targeted TheTrollie N6.

I decided not to track TheTrollie because he might be NKed, I decided not to track Zoidberg as I thought ninja might jive pretty well with fruit-vendor, and I had town reads on DGB-Magua-Dram, but I thought Dram was most likely to be some kind of scum out of that set, so I went with him.

Short Version

1. Dram targeted TheTrollie N6, and he only targeted TheTrollie N6.

Dram is lying, my action was messed with, or dram's action was messed with.

2. One of the unflipped scum may be a ninja.
3. I am likely to have access to a jailkeep N7 (along with a watcher and a double action).

That last means that I'm pretty sure we can lynch scum today and still win, provided that I jailkeep the other scum tonight.

[Iecerint]

why do you say likely exactly, Iec? I think that definitely changes the game, but that hedge word worries me.

I am basically 100% sure at this point that I will get the N3 options tonight given what happened N5 and N6, but I don't get my options until the start of the night in question, so I won't know for sure until then. For example, I wasn't sure at the time if my N5 choices were a random selection from the N1-N4 choice-sets, but with getting N1s and then N2s successively, I'm pretty confident it's sequential at this point.

I should clarify that all my track/watch results were worded in terms that did not specify the name of the player the result was on (e.g., "the person you targeted did blahblah" vs. "Player X did blahblah").

[Iecerint]

Leaves dram/DGB/Zoidberg.

[Iecerint]

Why did you target OD 3 consecutive times?

By "leaves," I meant "left to claim," but I do think Zora is pretty likely to be town.

@ Zora -- It is just chance that Om got information about you?

[Iecerint]

My flavor is about how I did not win American Idol owing to being gay, but I have tricks that explain my ability to thrive despite this.

It's written from an unreliable-narrative POV such that I think I am persecuted and stuff, but I am actually (implicitly) just mediocre, and only my abilities justify my success.

[Iecerint]

I remember kinda liking the one song that Lady Gaga wrote for him, though I can't remember how it goes anymore.

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@Mod: if a redirector targets a roleblocker, and the roleblocker targets the redirector, who wins out?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... Resolution

What about roleblocking a roleblocker? The wiki does not address this case.

[Iecerint]

Oh, wait, I totally never noticed this:

If the list still doesn't narrow it down to a single action, pick one of the best candidates using any fair method,

such as by taking the first one submitted

.

So that could explain PH being blocked N2, I guess.

[Iecerint]

DGB, I think we're waiting on your claim.

[Iecerint]

Thing is, I don't really know why dramScum would fake a guilty on the hated townie. He could just as easily fake a guilty on anyone else, with the bonus that we don't have to imagine that Om misread a PM.

But I recognize that dramScum is parsimonious re: justifying all the night actions, sooooo that's where I am.

Could be that you're just numerically easier to mislynch in the short-term, but that's kinda short-sighted AFAICT.

/drunkpost

[Iecerint]

@ DGB -- I do not understand that you think you could be missing...yes, dram either killed Trollie, or shenanigans happened to make it look that way.

But if dramScum killed Trollie, his plan for D7 was to frame and lynch Zora. This seems like a crappy scumplan, 's the main reason I'm entertaining the latter.

@ dram/zora -- Yeah, I know.

[Iecerint]

Right now I think the most likely scenario is DGB-mafia, Zoidberg-SK. I think dram is probably town despite my result because I think he believed he had a real result on Zora at the start of the day + framing zora would be a terrible scum strategy AFAICT. Zoidberg is probably not mafia due to the number of ability usages that would imply (presuming the redirection came from mafia). This leaves DGB as a redirector-mafia and Zoidberg as a fruit-vending SK.

[Iecerint]

Yep:

Copy
Hide
Bus

Block
Redirect

Protect
Miscellaneous
Kill
Recruit
Inspect

Count minor modifications of the actions listed above the same as the basic action (e.g., randomize would be the same priority as redirect).

For actions which combine two other actions use the first one listed.

Should note that it apparently won't work if Trollie and Zora were actually bus-driven, but that would mean that scum targeted Zora for the kill, which is unlikely, unless they busdrove their own kill, which is zany.

I'm fine with Zoidberg first; the SK is more likely to have some kind of extraneous night-action-mitigation ability, anyway. Lynching the less-certain one makes sense because the WCS is correctly-lynching and then mis-JKing.

[Iecerint]

Are you

fine

with, or do you WANT Zoid first.
For reasons I stated earlier, we should lynch DGB before zoid, because she could be either.

Our goal today should be to find the 2 scum and then lynch the one we are less certain of.

1. If we lynch TOWN, then we pray for a crosskill and lose without it.
2. If we lynch SCUM and I jailkeep *CORRECTLY*, we win.
3. If we lynch SCUM and I jailkeep *WRONG*, town loses (unless Zora is bluffing about being Hated).

In other words, the best lynch-JK order is the opposite of your first instinct. This way, the chance of 3 happening is reduced and the chance of 1 happening is increased. The chance of 2 happening is not affected.

[Iecerint]

Statistically, we are better off with lynching scum + jailkeep, since the chance of that night playing out correctly due purely to chance is 50% (dram v DGB/Zoid), but the chance of the same for a double cross-kill is 25% (Iec v SKscum && Iec v mafiaScum).

All assuming Zora isn't scum and won't be targeted.

I THINK that's right.

[Iecerint]

I think you're forgetting about hypo-redirecter-scum (though I had forgotten, too). Assuming it's in play, that's going to decrease the chance of a double crosskill.

[Iecerint]

If we lose because Om is terrible at reading Mod messages, that is an interesting story for me to tell my grandchildren, so I am not really worried about Zora being scum.

Unless Reck games have a history of mod-lies or something.

[Iecerint]

Ah, lame. Congrats @ DGB.

My gut said DGB was the SK (cf., mafia QT), but I decided I would feel like an idiot if I lost to dramSK after I had redirected him to deadTrollie and he had claimed scum in-thread.

Sorry @ scumfriends. I tried.

[Iecerint]

Also, I convinced myself that OneDirection had possibly-maybe crumbed an SK-innocent on her.

[Iecerint]

The highlight for me was when Faraday sang to Thunderhog.

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Yeah, I was pretty sure dram wasn't the SK, but I HATED the idea of losing to dram and hearing people say BUT YOU REDIRECTED HIM TO TROLLIE WTFBBQ

[Iecerint]

neway thx i guess.

I was surprised no one asked why I didn't empower Trollie D1.

[Iecerint]

He also CLAIMED SCUM.

And I had thought OD had maybe jossed DGB-SK, but I guess not.

Meh.

[Iecerint]

It was hard to understand why dram would lynch zora as a town player, and also why he would encourage DGB to cross-kill with him. That's the kind of thing you do and say as a bulletproof SK.

Not that DGB wasn't obvSK herself, what with going into panic-mode when she was up for the lynch. I wish I'd just voted her outright, but I wanted to wait until zora got his ducks in a row. <_<

[Iecerint]

i'm insecure
don't know what for
i like my reads and stuff just walked through a door
don't need empire
to cover up
my posts contain some fluff
everyone else in the room can see it
everyone else but meeeee
thunder you light up my life like nobody else
prove gamma wrong and be town and stuff
you don't know you're beautifulll

[Iecerint]

If you read the scum QT, it's clear that I was pretty settled on DGB-SK for the majority of the last day, even despite having redirected dram to deadTrollie.

The things that moved me back into the "not sure" category between her and dram were dram lynching confirmed town and dram claiming scum.

[Iecerint]

you're not going to convince me she wasn't fully aware it would have had a large impact on the game

She obviously thought it would have a large impact on the game...that's why she did it...?

And frankly, even though Wyrd was scum, I found the D1 mason thing on Fate/Nuwen to be kind of appalling.

[Iecerint]

do you mean the fast BW on them for scum-telling in the QT?

I can understand

It was less scum-telling than meta-bashing from where I was sitting.

YMMV.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, we were pretty OP, especially given that we were lucky and recruited SlumberPartyBois N1 due to DeltaWave's action (lol). But we had pretty poor organization and lots of infighting, so we didn't make very good use of our Governor ability, and our Bookie of course died D1.

[Iecerint]

but keep talking about how voting for people who you have a scumread on is "meta bashing", whatever the fuck that means.

Reading the hydra QT was EXTREMELY disquieting, and my vibe from the thread was that you were a little embarrassed of it before Wyrd flipped scum.

I mean, I seriously expected some kind of scum shenanigans somewhere in that whole mess, and that was AS SCUM.

Made my job easy, though.

[Iecerint]

I just meant "bullying." Meta as in "beyond [the game]," not as in "meta aspects of playstyle."

[Iecerint]

Though my read was more that some influential people decided to be assholes and the others kind of went along with it due to the gravitas.

Yes yes yes it's part of the game and it's totally fine and Wyrd was indeed scum, but it made me very uncomfortable to read it.