Newbie 1310: A WILD CHARIZARD APPEARED! - GAME OVER

[TheTrollie]

Hey guys, I am gonna read through this tonight and I'll be up to speed with stuff to say by tomorrow

[TheTrollie]

Only on page 7. I can tell you right now though this is how the day is going to go:

we are lynching one of Xegarus/Nacho

Kitiekatt is town
Dyrynify is town
CF is town

moving on...

[TheTrollie]

i didnt realize i was kitie lol

mykonian is doing well to redeem that slot. i still havent read the last three pages or so.

has there been a PR claim from someone i missed?

[TheTrollie]

i have zero idea what EM stands for

[TheTrollie]

ok up to speed.

VOTE: nacho

this needs to be lynched

[TheTrollie]

no we r lynching nacho first. im not convinced smash isnt just town newbie

[TheTrollie]

ill ISO him in a bit but i feel really good about my nacho read

[TheTrollie]

The thing is that while i was catching up i felt like a Xegarus/Nacho scumteam was what we had going on. Mykonian's nacho stance is too genuine to be bussing, plus I don't buy that he would bus this hard in a newbie game D2. If the team was Mykonian/Nacho Mykonian would have come in doing some light distancing and thats it.

I need to ISO smash b/c i've kinda been skimming over his posts recently even though hes a null read for me

[TheTrollie]

Yeah, OK, i didn't even make it past 5 posts in the ISO before realizing how scummy he was.

I need to look at some meta before i switch my vote though.

[TheTrollie]

OK, here is the problem:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23332
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23318 (this one Mykonian modded)

in both games smash is town and in both games he exhibits similar scumtells as he does in this game, namely: (1) opportunistic about what he comments on and (2) wordy/wishy-washy posting style. So I need to go through again and check to make sure that this time its different.

also, I'm worried that scum-nacho will be harder to lynch because of his IC status after either of us die. maybe thats wrong though

[TheTrollie]

ok well this dyrynify is town as hell so that wagon needs to die

[TheTrollie]

@om: what was ur read of xeg throughout D1? pls narrate.

[TheTrollie]

its probably smash...
but that *points to post above* is scum.

we can deal with smash tomorrow. get rid of nacho first.

[TheTrollie]

oh, sorry it was #468 that was scummy

[TheTrollie]

i have to get into the shower, but mostly because your posts are so vapid and useless and all i see in almost every post of yours are feigned a attempts at scumhunting.

[TheTrollie]

actually would like myko and cf to get their votes off smash now
if you're gonna pretend the case is stronger on me then it is because of your paranoia, then vote me now
watch dyr not push the emp wagon at all and get stuck into making another scumfuck hammer
watch trollie not explain his vote on me at all
not even a little bit
then let them die

dyr is obvtown

[TheTrollie]

actually would like myko and cf to get their votes off smash now
if you're gonna pretend the case is stronger on me then it is because of your paranoia, then vote me now
watch dyr not push the emp wagon at all and get stuck into making another scumfuck hammer
watch trollie not explain his vote on me at all
not even a little bit
then let them die

dyr is obvtown

uhm.
that's

your

opinion

correct

[TheTrollie]

@om: what was ur read of xeg throughout D1? pls narrate.

What was the point of you asking me that again? You didn't really follow up on it either.
Are you planning to 'narrate' your own reads so far anytime soon? Your predecessor didn't really gave much to look into for my liking, I hope you can put more on table before D2 ends.

ive given several of my reads

[TheTrollie]

Om is town btw.

I might switch to smash wagon but only if agree Nacho is tomorrow's likely kill

[TheTrollie]

honestly because i have:

"dyrynify town"

written in my notes i took while catching up. I saw something that made him town. I will try to find it.

Yeah ok, both my scum reads on dyr wagon, Nacho & smash wagons are all town.

Om would u consider switching your vote to smash?

VOTE: smash

i believe thats L-2

[TheTrollie]

The one scummy thing that dyr does is that he often adds rhetoric that weakens claims he makes in posts. (something i call distancing but since distancing means something else already i have to come up with another term). However, I believe this is not a scumtell for dyr because this behavior is commonly seen in newbies independent of their alignment, because they are learning the game and are unsure of themselves sometimes.

Dyr's posts come off as very genuine to me, which is why he is a strong town read. he is markedly reactive to things and markedly open when he posts. He is answering a lot of questions, and doesnt seem to be restrictive or hiding anything. Thats why hes a town read for me.

[TheTrollie]

@nacho: My scumread on you is because you are playing this game by poking ever so slightly at each player/issue and waiting for one of them to catch steam. You don't seem to be pushing any of your own reads, but instead are trying to pick issues that are agreeable to the rest of the players. You also will do this thing where you take someone else's case/read and add to it to try to get that player moving in a particular direction (i.e. that their scum read is obvscum).

if you guys need something more concrete to vote on, look how Nacho's read on DYR goes 180:

Spoiler: irrelevant part of the post

VOTE: Nachomamma8, cause they are the only person I have played with before.

HI, NACHO!

Hello. Ready to lynch scum day one again? Good.

I will ask all of you a small series of questions to gauge where we are all coming from. There really isn't a wrong answer to any of these questions. This is just a way to break the ice.

Break the ice and... delay the actual game from beginning. Question 1 is nice for getting to know people, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other threads on site if you want to meet people and find out why they play. Question 2 is... useless, obviously. 3 is also useless. Of course everyone trusts their own reads instead of their own unless someone else is convincing or not. None of these help with scumhunting, all of these add useless things to my thread. Please don't do random questions ever again pretty pretty please. These were less anti-town than they usually are, but that doesn't mean they are good

I'll say this now, i'm a vanilla town.
Whether i'm lying or not is up to you.
But if something doesn't add up, then SOMEONE did lie.

Mmmm... don't do this. If you are lying as town, then your PR claim won't be believed down the road, which is a very, very bad thing, since you would probably be forced to claim when a majority of the town finds you scummy anyways. If you are telling the truth as town, then you're basically saying "hey guys, I make a perfectly good mislynch! Don't kill me!" if they paranoid of you being a PR, they will rolecop you. They will not kill you. If you are mafia, this just brings the spotlight to you.

If i gain nothing, then it doesn't really matter whether i do it or not.
Whats to loose?

If you gain nothing, you probably don't want to do it. You can never really gauge consequences until they are hitting you in the face in most scenarios.

I understand how random questions can be a stupid thing and basically force people to post for the sake of posting. But is that really so bad early on in the game? (thats a serious question)

Yes it is. The opening of games is extremely important, and RQS makes them a lot more muddled, a lot less advantageous for town. If you get the game started early and you don't give scum time to get comfortable, then things get interesting. For example, I normally would call Doctor scum for avoiding things and posting crap (I still probably will), but for now, I don't really know whether he is newbie who doesn't know where to start and so goes with answering random questions, or whether he is scum coasting.

I really like

em+d and

Dyr for town.

And yeah, gonna vote Doc anyways.

Vote: TheDoctor

Spoiler: irrelevant

I see the vote for Doc cause he answered the random Q's and posting crap, but I'm wondering why. A lot of us answered those random q's (which I think is what you're referencing as posting crap), was there other crap he posted or something other than the answering of the random questions that makes him more scummy? Cause if it's just for answering those questions that could be a lot of people.

It wasn't the answering questions that set me off, it was more that he did absolutely nothing else with it. The fact that he didn't respond to the page one VT claim tells me that he hasn't read, but if he hasn't read, then how did he know to answer those RQS questions? More likely than not, he was looking for something to post, found the random questions, answered them, and stopped reading. That tells me he's just posting to get by, which makes him likelier scum than not.

If you lynch say on D1, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance getting town. Now N1, a town will always be killed. So by lynching eveyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1.
Now i know that eliminating scum is how you win the game for town. But can't that be said as keeping as many townies alive?

If you lynch on Day 2, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance of getting town. Now N2, a town will always be killed. So, by lynching everyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1. So, it's optimal never to lynch because then we never lose 2 town!
...but that's not how it works. We have three chances to hit scum before we lose. No lynching D1 basically says that fuck it, we're obviously going to win this game so we need a handicap, let's do this with only two chances to hit scum instead. In fact, everytime we no lynch when there are an odd number of players alive, we're essentially throwing away one of our chances for absolutely no reason. So yeah, we want to lynch pretty much every day. Exception would be if there are 6 players alive and 2 scum left OR 4 players alive and 1 scum left and there isn't a confirmed town around. Then you might want to no lynch so you would have the minimum amount of suspects, but only then.

So what you're saying that it's a bad move if i am town or scum. Hence just a bad move altogether?

Precisely.

Why?
Am i really to close to see exactly whats so town about them?

Dyr

is being aggressive, targetting something that he regards to be scummy and locking on tight. While he does that, he's also looking around, criticizing people, searching for the other scum.

I find that pretty town.

Em+p is more of a tonal read, but the conscious creating of bandwagons to get people closer to a lynch is pretty cool, pretty cool.

I would like elaboration as to why theres a wagon on the doctor and why empdear is town. I see dry and xegarus as town. Don't know about nacho. He wan this chummy in our last game. *Wasnt

Really? Pretty sure I buddied the hell out of camn last game until I thought she was scum.

dyr

, xeg, em+p, you, smash

townreads

doctor scumread
preference of katiekatt over om

and then out of nowhere:

Unvote, Vote: em+p_dear

I don't mind dyr votes.

Now, in this ONE post, nacho VOTES em+p_dear who he had as a town read not so long before this vote, AND claims that he is fine with dyr votes, another one of his town reads. the em+p_dear 180 might be an even stronger case but I haven't looked at that yet. My guess is Nacho was trying to spin his em+p townread into a lynch candidate, but when that didn't take steam and he saw the dyr wagon coming, he started laying out the groundwork for him to be able to jump onto it once it was time.

In the meantime, Nacho,

who's scum?

Current thoughts are

em+p and dyrnify

, but they don't work as a team. Myko, Om, and CF are all pretty strong townreads.

Spoiler: irrelevant

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

Ping.
Myko has been talking about different suspects, has been voting different suspects. Him not having the balls to vote you is an odd point, and it seems like you're trying to play a "vote me, I dare you" game which isn't a game townies play.

You were so sure that kittie was scum and made a good case against her and then all of the sudden, she's not so suspicious anymore.

Mostly due to her leaving post. I got her to take a position, got her to give reads, and she ended up going after a target that really wasn't that popular at all, which was not a reaction i expected if she felt pressured at all. i wanted to see an additional post to see how she would handle cf's treatment of her vote, but no luck there.

Is this just because of the data the wagon gives or is there another reason?

I've been a bit aggressive with your wagons because I won't be able to read you worth shit if you don't do something, and getting that wagon on you is the quickest way to get there.[/spoiler]

As for Majiffy (that's Xeg's replacement, right?) I began to see him as innocent when other people began accusing me of scum. As smash pointed out, I was passive about it and instead of flat out asking people why they suspected me, I went back and reread my old posts and saw a lot of the same things Xeg wrote in his posts. I said some things that were stupid/suspicious, and from an objective point of view, I seemed wishy-washy and easily persuaded/discouraged by others. Initially, these were the very reasons I suspected Xeg, but in comparison, I found that I did them all as well. The more people suspected me, the more I reread my posts and the less scum/more clueless noob I began to see in him.

I like this reasoning a lot.

here, nacho starts agreeing with emp who he just said, EARLIER IN THIS POST, that he thought was scum, another 180. +scum for nacho

Spoiler: irrelevant

Could someone play middle man for me since Mykonian is going to do the whole "I'm not talking to you! *plugs ears*" strategy. All I need is for someone not named Smashbard to ask the exact same questions I am asking, since so long as he feels I'm scum he's going to refuse to answer any of them.

mykonian is a more thoughtful player than you think he is

Unvote. Vote: Nacho.

We're not getting anywhere having everyone split within three wagons. Obviously my reasons for suspecting Emp Dear are not convincing enough to everyone else, so yes, I'm compromising with two of my town reads rather than the Dyrnify Wagon because nobody can give me a straight answer as to why Dyrnify would hammer as scum on Day 1.

because he didn't see your intent to hammer
because there weren't any scum on the wagon and he was getting antsy
because he suspected doctor of being a power role and didn't want to give him time to actually claim

Unvote, Vote: Dyrnify

I thought emp handled my pressure really well. Interestingly enough, the Xegar read that I didn't even mean to ask for in the first place is what's giving me the strongest townread on the slot; it makes a lot of sense that emp would find him town after she was called out for doing certain things and saw Xegar doing those same things. Dyr, on the other hand, has really fallen off since Day 1, which I find pretty fucking suspicious. I thought that if he was scum, he had a pretty good day 1, but today he's not really pushing anyone and only voting emp when it's based on his survival. Also found smash's vote on me pretty interesting and would like for him to confirm that he is voting me using Om's and CF's logic.

he forgot to vote dyr in #399 after giving us an awe inspiring performance about why dyr should be lynched, so he corrects for the mistake in #400. He backtracks on his EMP read out of nowhere in this same post, after forgetting to indicate why he all of the sudden likes EMP in #399.

tl;dr

Nacho = scum

btw, i will switch my vote back to Nacho in a heartbeat, as soon as one other player switches to nacho I will switch too, i had to change over to smash because I was worried about the dyr mislynch

[TheTrollie]

@mod: somehow i just like quadrouple posted a long one, can u delete the duplicates please? thanks

Your wish is my command.

[TheTrollie]

vry good. thnx. now u wanna explain why your posting so bad as town?

[TheTrollie]

WHAT ABOUT YOUR TOTAL 180 ON EMP BETWEEN THE BEGINNING OF #399 AND THE END OF #399

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: nacho
L–1 no one hammer without claiming intent

[TheTrollie]

shit

[TheTrollie]

what about smash?

[TheTrollie]

doctors be on me tonight

[TheTrollie]

especially if nacho flips town

[TheTrollie]

Ok.

VOTE: Nachomamma8

Call me a bastard, I hate L-1 WIFOMY bullshit.

bastard

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: dyrynify

explain...

[TheTrollie]

BTW, NO ONE ELSE VOTE DYR WITHOUT STATING INTENT SO THAT MAFIA CANNOT QUICKLYNCH HIM IF HE IS TOWN!

[TheTrollie]

If ur trying to say that CF investigated Dyr N1 im pretty sure ur wrong. I only looked briefly but CF was not very strong-willed on his scumread of dyr.

i already told u why nacho, and stfu u were just as into a nacho lynch as I was...

actually, I call bullshit, what the fuck myko, ur gonna blame the Nacho mislynch on me, when YOU supported that lynch.

Bull. Shit.

[TheTrollie]

that he copped smash?

o what? now you suddenly remember that you supported the Nacho wagon and are done pointing fingers?

[TheTrollie]

doctors be on me tonight

Why the hell would you do this? Explain pleas.

I'm stating intent to vote/hammer Dry

@Dry and @Smash
Make this interesting.

b/c after nacho's "trollie's obvtown" i didnt wanna be the nk...

[TheTrollie]

today we r lynching between smash and dyr, most likely...tomorrow we have the other one of them and myko. thats how i see this going.

[TheTrollie]

wow, om, pls.

a doctor would have a choice whether to protect me. The point of saying "doctors be on me tonight" was to introduce skepticism so the scum wouldnt know what the best NK was. Does it suck we lost a PR? yes. But, Scum had to decide if I was a PR, & if it was worth risking that the doctor might have protected me after that statement.

Ur town, so lets stop getting into arguments and move forward...waiting for dyr...

[TheTrollie]

uhhh...u do get that CF only had 1 result on D2 right?

[TheTrollie]

wait wait wait...explain this to me?

who did CF investigate (or who are the possibilities) and what were his reads on them?

[TheTrollie]

Om, the reason your reasoning doesnt make sense is that you are not able to parse out which slots CF had a result on and which were just his generic reads.

I think we can all agree that he didn't receive a guilty N1 because, as far as i could tell, he had no VERY strong scum reads.

I also dont believe he would have totally ignored the person he targeted.

According to Om, that means he probably got an inno read N1 on either OM or EMP.

so at least one of {OM/EMP} is town. As far as I can tell that is all we get from the CF flip. Anyone else?

[TheTrollie]

I agree to that but you're missing what I'm actually saying, the very fact that you couldn't be one of his possible Cop targets (Me, Em or Xeg) means you're likely scum over all three of them by PoE if one of the Dry and Smash flipped town.

uhhhh...(1) where did Xeg come from in there (2) no, because he only investigated ONE of you, meaning the other two are still just as likely to be scum as I am.

[TheTrollie]

@Dry, I saw you reading this thread, why are you avoiding to post?

Or are you waiting out to see where wind blows and quick hammer again?

Honestly? I decided way back in D1 that I was gonna play this by kicking the hornets nest and seeing what happens. I am just enjoying watching everyone scurry around.

scum #1

(honestly with ^that^ we have to lynch him either way and just hope hes scum)

Spoiler: bla bla bla

Only on page 7. I can tell you right now though this is how the day is going to go:

we are lynching one of Xegarus/Nacho

Kitiekatt is town
Dyrynify is town
CF is town

moving on...

Immediately he claims that scumbuddy Dyrnify is town. Along with a read for CF Riot, who was obv town to most everybody, and calling himself town "not realizing" that he was Kitiekats replacement.

ok well this dyrynify is town as hell so that wagon needs to die

Once again pressuring everyone to get off his buddies wagon.

actually would like myko and cf to get their votes off smash now
if you're gonna pretend the case is stronger on me then it is because of your paranoia, then vote me now
watch dyr not push the emp wagon at all and get stuck into making another scumfuck hammer
watch trollie not explain his vote on me at all
not even a little bit
then let them die

dyr is obvtown

Again, defending dyrnify. Insisting he's obvtown. He must of been really worried about how scummy Dyrnify's quickhammer Day 1 was. Employing the typical brainwashing tactic of saying the same statement over and over in order to make it true in the minds of stupid people.

Om is town btw.

I might switch to smash wagon but only if agree Nacho is tomorrow's likely kill

States willingness to compromise. He just wants to pull off a lynch, any lynch at this point that does not involve Dyrnify.

honestly because i have:

"dyrynify town"

written in my notes i took while catching up. I saw something that made him town. I will try to find it.

Yeah ok, both my scum reads on dyr wagon, Nacho & smash wagons are all town.

Om would u consider switching your vote to smash?

VOTE: smash

i believe thats L-2

Has "Dyrnify is town" in his notes without immediate explanation because they are scumbuddies and was going to come up with justification later for his hardcore defense of Dyrnify.

The one scummy thing that dyr does is that he often adds rhetoric that weakens claims he makes in posts. (something i call distancing but since distancing means something else already i have to come up with another term). However, I believe this is not a scumtell for dyr because this behavior is commonly seen in newbies independent of their alignment, because they are learning the game and are unsure of themselves sometimes.

Dyr's posts come off as very genuine to me, which is why he is a strong town read. he is markedly reactive to things and markedly open when he posts. He is answering a lot of questions, and doesnt seem to be restrictive or hiding anything. Thats why hes a town read for me.

Finally comes up with a wall post over explaining different reasons why he finds Dyrnify as town. Funny how he was SO CONFIDENT in the fact that Dyrnify was Obv Town but he had to do a reread and recheck his notes just to come up with reasons why Dyrnify is town. Which even here is flawed in two ways.

1) His first point about rhetoric and distancing being common behavior for newbies regardless of alignment is not a reason why he is town. It would be a reason why he would be a null read. Because he even admits it's something that newbies do regardless of alignment.

2) Saying posts come off as "genuine" is purely based on gut so there's nothing "strong" about a gut town read. And should not be indicative as to why we believe him that Dyrnify is town. It's the equivalent of "You guys should totally trust my gut, because I am so obviously town. I know because I got a town PM, why don't you believe me?!"

@nacho: My scumread on you is because you are playing this game by poking ever so slightly at each player/issue and waiting for one of them to catch steam. You don't seem to be pushing any of your own reads, but instead are trying to pick issues that are agreeable to the rest of the players. You also will do this thing where you take someone else's case/read and add to it to try to get that player moving in a particular direction (i.e. that their scum read is obvscum).

if you guys need something more concrete to vote on, look how Nacho's read on DYR goes 180:

VOTE: Nachomamma8, cause they are the only person I have played with before.

HI, NACHO!

Hello. Ready to lynch scum day one again? Good.

I will ask all of you a small series of questions to gauge where we are all coming from. There really isn't a wrong answer to any of these questions. This is just a way to break the ice.

Break the ice and... delay the actual game from beginning. Question 1 is nice for getting to know people, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other threads on site if you want to meet people and find out why they play. Question 2 is... useless, obviously. 3 is also useless. Of course everyone trusts their own reads instead of their own unless someone else is convincing or not. None of these help with scumhunting, all of these add useless things to my thread. Please don't do random questions ever again pretty pretty please. These were less anti-town than they usually are, but that doesn't mean they are good

I'll say this now, i'm a vanilla town.
Whether i'm lying or not is up to you.
But if something doesn't add up, then SOMEONE did lie.

Mmmm... don't do this. If you are lying as town, then your PR claim won't be believed down the road, which is a very, very bad thing, since you would probably be forced to claim when a majority of the town finds you scummy anyways. If you are telling the truth as town, then you're basically saying "hey guys, I make a perfectly good mislynch! Don't kill me!" if they paranoid of you being a PR, they will rolecop you. They will not kill you. If you are mafia, this just brings the spotlight to you.

If i gain nothing, then it doesn't really matter whether i do it or not.
Whats to loose?

If you gain nothing, you probably don't want to do it. You can never really gauge consequences until they are hitting you in the face in most scenarios.

I understand how random questions can be a stupid thing and basically force people to post for the sake of posting. But is that really so bad early on in the game? (thats a serious question)

Yes it is. The opening of games is extremely important, and RQS makes them a lot more muddled, a lot less advantageous for town. If you get the game started early and you don't give scum time to get comfortable, then things get interesting. For example, I normally would call Doctor scum for avoiding things and posting crap (I still probably will), but for now, I don't really know whether he is newbie who doesn't know where to start and so goes with answering random questions, or whether he is scum coasting.

I really like

em+d and

Dyr for town.

And yeah, gonna vote Doc anyways.

Vote: TheDoctor

I see the vote for Doc cause he answered the random Q's and posting crap, but I'm wondering why. A lot of us answered those random q's (which I think is what you're referencing as posting crap), was there other crap he posted or something other than the answering of the random questions that makes him more scummy? Cause if it's just for answering those questions that could be a lot of people.

It wasn't the answering questions that set me off, it was more that he did absolutely nothing else with it. The fact that he didn't respond to the page one VT claim tells me that he hasn't read, but if he hasn't read, then how did he know to answer those RQS questions? More likely than not, he was looking for something to post, found the random questions, answered them, and stopped reading. That tells me he's just posting to get by, which makes him likelier scum than not.

If you lynch say on D1, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance getting town. Now N1, a town will always be killed. So by lynching eveyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1.
Now i know that eliminating scum is how you win the game for town. But can't that be said as keeping as many townies alive?

If you lynch on Day 2, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance of getting town. Now N2, a town will always be killed. So, by lynching everyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1. So, it's optimal never to lynch because then we never lose 2 town!
...but that's not how it works. We have three chances to hit scum before we lose. No lynching D1 basically says that fuck it, we're obviously going to win this game so we need a handicap, let's do this with only two chances to hit scum instead. In fact, everytime we no lynch when there are an odd number of players alive, we're essentially throwing away one of our chances for absolutely no reason. So yeah, we want to lynch pretty much every day. Exception would be if there are 6 players alive and 2 scum left OR 4 players alive and 1 scum left and there isn't a confirmed town around. Then you might want to no lynch so you would have the minimum amount of suspects, but only then.

So what you're saying that it's a bad move if i am town or scum. Hence just a bad move altogether?

Precisely.

Why?
Am i really to close to see exactly whats so town about them?

Dyr

is being aggressive, targetting something that he regards to be scummy and locking on tight. While he does that, he's also looking around, criticizing people, searching for the other scum.

I find that pretty town.

Em+p is more of a tonal read, but the conscious creating of bandwagons to get people closer to a lynch is pretty cool, pretty cool.

I would like elaboration as to why theres a wagon on the doctor and why empdear is town. I see dry and xegarus as town. Don't know about nacho. He wan this chummy in our last game. *Wasnt

Really? Pretty sure I buddied the hell out of camn last game until I thought she was scum.

dyr

, xeg, em+p, you, smash

townreads

doctor scumread
preference of katiekatt over om

and then out of nowhere:

Unvote, Vote: em+p_dear

I don't mind dyr votes.

Now, in this ONE post, nacho VOTES em+p_dear who he had as a town read not so long before this vote, AND claims that he is fine with dyr votes, another one of his town reads. the em+p_dear 180 might be an even stronger case but I haven't looked at that yet. My guess is Nacho was trying to spin his em+p townread into a lynch candidate, but when that didn't take steam and he saw the dyr wagon coming, he started laying out the groundwork for him to be able to jump onto it once it was time.

In the meantime, Nacho,

who's scum?

Current thoughts are

em+p and dyrnify

, but they don't work as a team. Myko, Om, and CF are all pretty strong townreads.

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

Ping.
Myko has been talking about different suspects, has been voting different suspects. Him not having the balls to vote you is an odd point, and it seems like you're trying to play a "vote me, I dare you" game which isn't a game townies play.

You were so sure that kittie was scum and made a good case against her and then all of the sudden, she's not so suspicious anymore.

Mostly due to her leaving post. I got her to take a position, got her to give reads, and she ended up going after a target that really wasn't that popular at all, which was not a reaction i expected if she felt pressured at all. i wanted to see an additional post to see how she would handle cf's treatment of her vote, but no luck there.

Is this just because of the data the wagon gives or is there another reason?

I've been a bit aggressive with your wagons because I won't be able to read you worth shit if you don't do something, and getting that wagon on you is the quickest way to get there.

As for Majiffy (that's Xeg's replacement, right?) I began to see him as innocent when other people began accusing me of scum. As smash pointed out, I was passive about it and instead of flat out asking people why they suspected me, I went back and reread my old posts and saw a lot of the same things Xeg wrote in his posts. I said some things that were stupid/suspicious, and from an objective point of view, I seemed wishy-washy and easily persuaded/discouraged by others. Initially, these were the very reasons I suspected Xeg, but in comparison, I found that I did them all as well. The more people suspected me, the more I reread my posts and the less scum/more clueless noob I began to see in him.

I like this reasoning a lot.

here, nacho starts agreeing with emp who he just said, EARLIER IN THIS POST, that he thought was scum, another 180. +scum for nacho

Could someone play middle man for me since Mykonian is going to do the whole "I'm not talking to you! *plugs ears*" strategy. All I need is for someone not named Smashbard to ask the exact same questions I am asking, since so long as he feels I'm scum he's going to refuse to answer any of them.

mykonian is a more thoughtful player than you think he is

Unvote. Vote: Nacho.

We're not getting anywhere having everyone split within three wagons. Obviously my reasons for suspecting Emp Dear are not convincing enough to everyone else, so yes, I'm compromising with two of my town reads rather than the Dyrnify Wagon because nobody can give me a straight answer as to why Dyrnify would hammer as scum on Day 1.

because he didn't see your intent to hammer
because there weren't any scum on the wagon and he was getting antsy
because he suspected doctor of being a power role and didn't want to give him time to actually claim

Unvote, Vote: Dyrnify

I thought emp handled my pressure really well. Interestingly enough, the Xegar read that I didn't even mean to ask for in the first place is what's giving me the strongest townread on the slot; it makes a lot of sense that emp would find him town after she was called out for doing certain things and saw Xegar doing those same things. Dyr, on the other hand, has really fallen off since Day 1, which I find pretty fucking suspicious. I thought that if he was scum, he had a pretty good day 1, but today he's not really pushing anyone and only voting emp when it's based on his survival. Also found smash's vote on me pretty interesting and would like for him to confirm that he is voting me using Om's and CF's logic.

he forgot to vote dyr in #399 after giving us an awe inspiring performance about why dyr should be lynched, so he corrects for the mistake in #400. He backtracks on his EMP read out of nowhere in this same post, after forgetting to indicate why he all of the sudden likes EMP in #399.

tl;dr

Nacho = scum

btw, i will switch my vote back to Nacho in a heartbeat, as soon as one other player switches to nacho I will switch too, i had to change over to smash because I was worried about the dyr mislynch

Makes an overly convoluted case against Nacho to make it seem like he's scumhunting Nacho. Mentioning once again discouragement of any attempts at Nacho "laying the ground work" for a Dyrnify wagon, and then finishing off his multi-quote wall with yet another intent to compromise on his lynch target so long as he has other players support FIRST. Which is an extremely scummy thing to do WITHOUT the mountain of evidence that exposes him as Dyrnify's scum partner.

Icing on the cake is TheTrollie ONCE AGAIN stating that he only switched to me because he's worried about a Dyrnify "mislynch".

His entire motivation going into this game after his initial read through has been "Save dyrnify from any and all suspicions. And call everyone who thinks he's scum, scummy to induce fear through aggressive play."

Busted.

vry good. thnx. now u wanna explain why your posting so bad as town?

Admission that he knows Nacho was town the whole time.

VOTE: nacho
L–1 no one hammer without claiming intent

Sets up the hammer for his buddy knowing full well that Dyrnify has an itchy trigger finger.

shit

Feigns surprise.

doctors be on me tonight

Self preservationist tactic that ONLY scum use unless there is a reason to actually save your life as town, I.E. Power Role. CF Riot was the cop, so we know TheTrollie has no power role to fakeclaim now. Since he wanted protection, he selfishly requested his own life be more important than anyone elses despite not having a power role. Town DO NOT DO THIS. At least in my experience. Especially Vanilla Town that have no reason to be protected. This is probably the most damning evidence of TheTrollie being scum individually, outside of his constant defense of his scumbuddy.

That is until the start of today, where he "conveniently" decides to buss his partner to try and solidify himself as town. Dyrnify's quickhammers have outlived their usefulness to TheTrollie and he needs the town cred QUICK.

He will try to use the same aggressive tactics he has used since the start of his replacing in to prevent any of you from voting for him. He will scream and shout and when that fails to deter suspicion he will sarcastically dismiss any legitimate reason to vote for him.

Don't fall for it. Even if Dyrnify should be today's lynch, do not allow TheTrollie any town cred for bussing his partner. Not after how EXTREMELY PERSISTENT he was in defending Dyrnify from any and all suspicions Day 2. He aggressively switched between myself and Nacho because he was so afraid of a Dyrnify lynch. The only reasons he didn't push so hard on an Emp Dear lynch is because he obviously has been trying to take down the most pro-town players in the game one by one so that he can take control of the game and win it for his team.

So that required Nacho to be lynched, CF Riot to be killed and his partner to be bussed for the additional town cred after Nacho so emphatically declared that Dyrnify was scum for taking his lynch bait. Too bad you spent so much energy defending Dyrnify Day 2, because now you've got so much egg on your face we'll be making omelettes at your gallows.

Vote: TheTrollie

Scum #2

smash has been opportunistic as shit. oh wait...i did see that in his town meta. PROBABLY scum #2

[TheTrollie]

@Dry, I saw you reading this thread, why are you avoiding to post?

Or are you waiting out to see where wind blows and quick hammer again?

Honestly? I decided way back in D1 that I was gonna play this by kicking the hornets nest and seeing what happens. I am just enjoying watching everyone scurry around.

scum #1

(honestly with ^that^ we have to lynch him either way and just hope hes scum)

Spoiler: bla bla bla

Only on page 7. I can tell you right now though this is how the day is going to go:

we are lynching one of Xegarus/Nacho

Kitiekatt is town
Dyrynify is town
CF is town

moving on...

Immediately he claims that scumbuddy Dyrnify is town. Along with a read for CF Riot, who was obv town to most everybody, and calling himself town "not realizing" that he was Kitiekats replacement.

ok well this dyrynify is town as hell so that wagon needs to die

Once again pressuring everyone to get off his buddies wagon.

actually would like myko and cf to get their votes off smash now
if you're gonna pretend the case is stronger on me then it is because of your paranoia, then vote me now
watch dyr not push the emp wagon at all and get stuck into making another scumfuck hammer
watch trollie not explain his vote on me at all
not even a little bit
then let them die

dyr is obvtown

Again, defending dyrnify. Insisting he's obvtown. He must of been really worried about how scummy Dyrnify's quickhammer Day 1 was. Employing the typical brainwashing tactic of saying the same statement over and over in order to make it true in the minds of stupid people.

Om is town btw.

I might switch to smash wagon but only if agree Nacho is tomorrow's likely kill

States willingness to compromise. He just wants to pull off a lynch, any lynch at this point that does not involve Dyrnify.

honestly because i have:

"dyrynify town"

written in my notes i took while catching up. I saw something that made him town. I will try to find it.

Yeah ok, both my scum reads on dyr wagon, Nacho & smash wagons are all town.

Om would u consider switching your vote to smash?

VOTE: smash

i believe thats L-2

Has "Dyrnify is town" in his notes without immediate explanation because they are scumbuddies and was going to come up with justification later for his hardcore defense of Dyrnify.

The one scummy thing that dyr does is that he often adds rhetoric that weakens claims he makes in posts. (something i call distancing but since distancing means something else already i have to come up with another term). However, I believe this is not a scumtell for dyr because this behavior is commonly seen in newbies independent of their alignment, because they are learning the game and are unsure of themselves sometimes.

Dyr's posts come off as very genuine to me, which is why he is a strong town read. he is markedly reactive to things and markedly open when he posts. He is answering a lot of questions, and doesnt seem to be restrictive or hiding anything. Thats why hes a town read for me.

Finally comes up with a wall post over explaining different reasons why he finds Dyrnify as town. Funny how he was SO CONFIDENT in the fact that Dyrnify was Obv Town but he had to do a reread and recheck his notes just to come up with reasons why Dyrnify is town. Which even here is flawed in two ways.

1) His first point about rhetoric and distancing being common behavior for newbies regardless of alignment is not a reason why he is town. It would be a reason why he would be a null read. Because he even admits it's something that newbies do regardless of alignment.

2) Saying posts come off as "genuine" is purely based on gut so there's nothing "strong" about a gut town read. And should not be indicative as to why we believe him that Dyrnify is town. It's the equivalent of "You guys should totally trust my gut, because I am so obviously town. I know because I got a town PM, why don't you believe me?!"

@nacho: My scumread on you is because you are playing this game by poking ever so slightly at each player/issue and waiting for one of them to catch steam. You don't seem to be pushing any of your own reads, but instead are trying to pick issues that are agreeable to the rest of the players. You also will do this thing where you take someone else's case/read and add to it to try to get that player moving in a particular direction (i.e. that their scum read is obvscum).

if you guys need something more concrete to vote on, look how Nacho's read on DYR goes 180:

VOTE: Nachomamma8, cause they are the only person I have played with before.

HI, NACHO!

Hello. Ready to lynch scum day one again? Good.

I will ask all of you a small series of questions to gauge where we are all coming from. There really isn't a wrong answer to any of these questions. This is just a way to break the ice.

Break the ice and... delay the actual game from beginning. Question 1 is nice for getting to know people, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other threads on site if you want to meet people and find out why they play. Question 2 is... useless, obviously. 3 is also useless. Of course everyone trusts their own reads instead of their own unless someone else is convincing or not. None of these help with scumhunting, all of these add useless things to my thread. Please don't do random questions ever again pretty pretty please. These were less anti-town than they usually are, but that doesn't mean they are good

I'll say this now, i'm a vanilla town.
Whether i'm lying or not is up to you.
But if something doesn't add up, then SOMEONE did lie.

Mmmm... don't do this. If you are lying as town, then your PR claim won't be believed down the road, which is a very, very bad thing, since you would probably be forced to claim when a majority of the town finds you scummy anyways. If you are telling the truth as town, then you're basically saying "hey guys, I make a perfectly good mislynch! Don't kill me!" if they paranoid of you being a PR, they will rolecop you. They will not kill you. If you are mafia, this just brings the spotlight to you.

If i gain nothing, then it doesn't really matter whether i do it or not.
Whats to loose?

If you gain nothing, you probably don't want to do it. You can never really gauge consequences until they are hitting you in the face in most scenarios.

I understand how random questions can be a stupid thing and basically force people to post for the sake of posting. But is that really so bad early on in the game? (thats a serious question)

Yes it is. The opening of games is extremely important, and RQS makes them a lot more muddled, a lot less advantageous for town. If you get the game started early and you don't give scum time to get comfortable, then things get interesting. For example, I normally would call Doctor scum for avoiding things and posting crap (I still probably will), but for now, I don't really know whether he is newbie who doesn't know where to start and so goes with answering random questions, or whether he is scum coasting.

I really like

em+d and

Dyr for town.

And yeah, gonna vote Doc anyways.

Vote: TheDoctor

I see the vote for Doc cause he answered the random Q's and posting crap, but I'm wondering why. A lot of us answered those random q's (which I think is what you're referencing as posting crap), was there other crap he posted or something other than the answering of the random questions that makes him more scummy? Cause if it's just for answering those questions that could be a lot of people.

It wasn't the answering questions that set me off, it was more that he did absolutely nothing else with it. The fact that he didn't respond to the page one VT claim tells me that he hasn't read, but if he hasn't read, then how did he know to answer those RQS questions? More likely than not, he was looking for something to post, found the random questions, answered them, and stopped reading. That tells me he's just posting to get by, which makes him likelier scum than not.

If you lynch say on D1, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance getting town. Now N1, a town will always be killed. So by lynching eveyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1.
Now i know that eliminating scum is how you win the game for town. But can't that be said as keeping as many townies alive?

If you lynch on Day 2, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance of getting town. Now N2, a town will always be killed. So, by lynching everyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1. So, it's optimal never to lynch because then we never lose 2 town!
...but that's not how it works. We have three chances to hit scum before we lose. No lynching D1 basically says that fuck it, we're obviously going to win this game so we need a handicap, let's do this with only two chances to hit scum instead. In fact, everytime we no lynch when there are an odd number of players alive, we're essentially throwing away one of our chances for absolutely no reason. So yeah, we want to lynch pretty much every day. Exception would be if there are 6 players alive and 2 scum left OR 4 players alive and 1 scum left and there isn't a confirmed town around. Then you might want to no lynch so you would have the minimum amount of suspects, but only then.

So what you're saying that it's a bad move if i am town or scum. Hence just a bad move altogether?

Precisely.

Why?
Am i really to close to see exactly whats so town about them?

Dyr

is being aggressive, targetting something that he regards to be scummy and locking on tight. While he does that, he's also looking around, criticizing people, searching for the other scum.

I find that pretty town.

Em+p is more of a tonal read, but the conscious creating of bandwagons to get people closer to a lynch is pretty cool, pretty cool.

I would like elaboration as to why theres a wagon on the doctor and why empdear is town. I see dry and xegarus as town. Don't know about nacho. He wan this chummy in our last game. *Wasnt

Really? Pretty sure I buddied the hell out of camn last game until I thought she was scum.

dyr

, xeg, em+p, you, smash

townreads

doctor scumread
preference of katiekatt over om

and then out of nowhere:

Unvote, Vote: em+p_dear

I don't mind dyr votes.

Now, in this ONE post, nacho VOTES em+p_dear who he had as a town read not so long before this vote, AND claims that he is fine with dyr votes, another one of his town reads. the em+p_dear 180 might be an even stronger case but I haven't looked at that yet. My guess is Nacho was trying to spin his em+p townread into a lynch candidate, but when that didn't take steam and he saw the dyr wagon coming, he started laying out the groundwork for him to be able to jump onto it once it was time.

In the meantime, Nacho,

who's scum?

Current thoughts are

em+p and dyrnify

, but they don't work as a team. Myko, Om, and CF are all pretty strong townreads.

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

Ping.
Myko has been talking about different suspects, has been voting different suspects. Him not having the balls to vote you is an odd point, and it seems like you're trying to play a "vote me, I dare you" game which isn't a game townies play.

You were so sure that kittie was scum and made a good case against her and then all of the sudden, she's not so suspicious anymore.

Mostly due to her leaving post. I got her to take a position, got her to give reads, and she ended up going after a target that really wasn't that popular at all, which was not a reaction i expected if she felt pressured at all. i wanted to see an additional post to see how she would handle cf's treatment of her vote, but no luck there.

Is this just because of the data the wagon gives or is there another reason?

I've been a bit aggressive with your wagons because I won't be able to read you worth shit if you don't do something, and getting that wagon on you is the quickest way to get there.

As for Majiffy (that's Xeg's replacement, right?) I began to see him as innocent when other people began accusing me of scum. As smash pointed out, I was passive about it and instead of flat out asking people why they suspected me, I went back and reread my old posts and saw a lot of the same things Xeg wrote in his posts. I said some things that were stupid/suspicious, and from an objective point of view, I seemed wishy-washy and easily persuaded/discouraged by others. Initially, these were the very reasons I suspected Xeg, but in comparison, I found that I did them all as well. The more people suspected me, the more I reread my posts and the less scum/more clueless noob I began to see in him.

I like this reasoning a lot.

here, nacho starts agreeing with emp who he just said, EARLIER IN THIS POST, that he thought was scum, another 180. +scum for nacho

Could someone play middle man for me since Mykonian is going to do the whole "I'm not talking to you! *plugs ears*" strategy. All I need is for someone not named Smashbard to ask the exact same questions I am asking, since so long as he feels I'm scum he's going to refuse to answer any of them.

mykonian is a more thoughtful player than you think he is

Unvote. Vote: Nacho.

We're not getting anywhere having everyone split within three wagons. Obviously my reasons for suspecting Emp Dear are not convincing enough to everyone else, so yes, I'm compromising with two of my town reads rather than the Dyrnify Wagon because nobody can give me a straight answer as to why Dyrnify would hammer as scum on Day 1.

because he didn't see your intent to hammer
because there weren't any scum on the wagon and he was getting antsy
because he suspected doctor of being a power role and didn't want to give him time to actually claim

Unvote, Vote: Dyrnify

I thought emp handled my pressure really well. Interestingly enough, the Xegar read that I didn't even mean to ask for in the first place is what's giving me the strongest townread on the slot; it makes a lot of sense that emp would find him town after she was called out for doing certain things and saw Xegar doing those same things. Dyr, on the other hand, has really fallen off since Day 1, which I find pretty fucking suspicious. I thought that if he was scum, he had a pretty good day 1, but today he's not really pushing anyone and only voting emp when it's based on his survival. Also found smash's vote on me pretty interesting and would like for him to confirm that he is voting me using Om's and CF's logic.

he forgot to vote dyr in #399 after giving us an awe inspiring performance about why dyr should be lynched, so he corrects for the mistake in #400. He backtracks on his EMP read out of nowhere in this same post, after forgetting to indicate why he all of the sudden likes EMP in #399.

tl;dr

Nacho = scum

btw, i will switch my vote back to Nacho in a heartbeat, as soon as one other player switches to nacho I will switch too, i had to change over to smash because I was worried about the dyr mislynch

Makes an overly convoluted case against Nacho to make it seem like he's scumhunting Nacho. Mentioning once again discouragement of any attempts at Nacho "laying the ground work" for a Dyrnify wagon, and then finishing off his multi-quote wall with yet another intent to compromise on his lynch target so long as he has other players support FIRST. Which is an extremely scummy thing to do WITHOUT the mountain of evidence that exposes him as Dyrnify's scum partner.

Icing on the cake is TheTrollie ONCE AGAIN stating that he only switched to me because he's worried about a Dyrnify "mislynch".

His entire motivation going into this game after his initial read through has been "Save dyrnify from any and all suspicions. And call everyone who thinks he's scum, scummy to induce fear through aggressive play."

Busted.

vry good. thnx. now u wanna explain why your posting so bad as town?

Admission that he knows Nacho was town the whole time.

VOTE: nacho
L–1 no one hammer without claiming intent

Sets up the hammer for his buddy knowing full well that Dyrnify has an itchy trigger finger.

shit

Feigns surprise.

doctors be on me tonight

Self preservationist tactic that ONLY scum use unless there is a reason to actually save your life as town, I.E. Power Role. CF Riot was the cop, so we know TheTrollie has no power role to fakeclaim now. Since he wanted protection, he selfishly requested his own life be more important than anyone elses despite not having a power role. Town DO NOT DO THIS. At least in my experience. Especially Vanilla Town that have no reason to be protected. This is probably the most damning evidence of TheTrollie being scum individually, outside of his constant defense of his scumbuddy.

That is until the start of today, where he "conveniently" decides to buss his partner to try and solidify himself as town. Dyrnify's quickhammers have outlived their usefulness to TheTrollie and he needs the town cred QUICK.

He will try to use the same aggressive tactics he has used since the start of his replacing in to prevent any of you from voting for him. He will scream and shout and when that fails to deter suspicion he will sarcastically dismiss any legitimate reason to vote for him.

Don't fall for it. Even if Dyrnify should be today's lynch, do not allow TheTrollie any town cred for bussing his partner. Not after how EXTREMELY PERSISTENT he was in defending Dyrnify from any and all suspicions Day 2. He aggressively switched between myself and Nacho because he was so afraid of a Dyrnify lynch. The only reasons he didn't push so hard on an Emp Dear lynch is because he obviously has been trying to take down the most pro-town players in the game one by one so that he can take control of the game and win it for his team.

So that required Nacho to be lynched, CF Riot to be killed and his partner to be bussed for the additional town cred after Nacho so emphatically declared that Dyrnify was scum for taking his lynch bait. Too bad you spent so much energy defending Dyrnify Day 2, because now you've got so much egg on your face we'll be making omelettes at your gallows.

Vote: TheTrollie

Scum #2

smash has been opportunistic as shit. oh wait...i did see that in his town meta. PROBABLY scum #2

[TheTrollie]

Dyr. i want a full list of ur reads.

I think hes at L-2 Om...

In any case DONT PULL A FUCKING DYR AND HAMMER WITHOUT STATING INTENT.

Honestly Dyr, u should claim now because if you are town Scum can quicklynch you to end the game at any time.

[TheTrollie]

actually, i dont think they would end the game, but end the day

[TheTrollie]

it would depend on their being a no kill again tonight.

[TheTrollie]

woah woah woah woah woah.....

ok Om is town
if dyr flips town, Smash is also town i think

honestly lets just lynch dyr there is no way im letting that live till tomorrow

[TheTrollie]

If you don't answer that question I'm parking my God Damned vote on you until end game or until you answer it.

ur not even voting Om right now.

gotcha,
there you go
lynch dyr today
Smash tomorrow
win games

[TheTrollie]

It's clear that Dyrnify has completely given up trying to defend himself, so he's obviously scum that just has nowhere to go. So I expected him to just ignore my Trollie analysis.

TheTrollie did what I predicted he would do, and sarcastically brush off my entire case without even attempting to defend himself. Because he knows there is no defense against me catching him red handed in his scumminess.

But that doesn't explain OM. Who I THOUGHT would of been capable of at least intelligently disagreeing with what I had to say, rather than just dismissing me entirely and continuing to chirp the Smashbard/Dyrnify scumteam that has no basis on it whatsoever, at least with my involvement.

So now you guys are just muddying the fucking water.

I am announcing intent to hammer Dyrnify, but not before we've had a proper chance to discuss things. We NEED to know our course of action tomorrow 100%. I'm not letting this day end before that happens.

see how dyr's buddy busses him, and then THROWS SHIT AT THE WALLS to set up tomorrow's mislynch?

how cute.

[TheTrollie]

again, anger and insults in place of rational discussion. You should really learn not to take the game so seriously.

you talkin' ta me?

[TheTrollie]

O.M.G.

we have four people active right now.

it takes 4 to lynch.

Dyr is so hammer happy he'll probably fucking hammer himself.

LET'S END THIS ALREADY

[TheTrollie]

Dyr actively and outwardly said he doesnt care about the game and intends to reak havoc.

I am happier with the odds of lynching him, probably being done there, but at worse case scenario, we hope dr.s save us tonight and then we r in lylo without dyr.

There is an alternative, since we are in Mylo (kinda) we can no-lynch, but i think thats stupid since either I or Om are gonna be the NK and that leaves us nowhere tomorrow

[TheTrollie]

myko, i meant end the day.

but fine, fine....

UNVOTE: dyr

I forgot about the no-kill day 1

@mod can PRs target themselves?

[TheTrollie]

nope. Talking to Smash. Your insulting behavior is pathetic. There is a big difference between taking the game seriously, and being an insulting prick. Get over yourself. IT IS A FUCKING FORUM GAME, NOT THE U.N. From this point on, rage all you like, but I won't be responding to any post of yours, and will drop any game you are in that I join. I refuse to game with you or your ilk. I have much better things to do.

I wont hammer myself; I detest suicide as the cowards way out. I dug this grave, but someone else gets to put me in it.

vry gud, nice playing with ya

[TheTrollie]

who hasn't checked in yet? just EMP?

[TheTrollie]

What good would it do for the Doctor/Jailkeeper to claim? To give Mafia a clear ticket as to who they should kill tonight?

it confirms 2 town

[TheTrollie]

Doc/JK claims. Claims who they targeted Night 1. Two confirmed townies. We No Lynch today, lose the protector role but still get another day phase with a confirmed townie, possibly two if the Doc/JK announces who they protect tonight? Is that what's going on?

why would we want this?

[TheTrollie]

Ok,

so the reason we would No Lynch in a MyLo situation (which means that if we mislynch we lose) is that the Night Kill narrows down our pool of suspects. The situation you described is one in which the Night Kill is likely to off someone we already can confirm as town, which is why it doesn't work to justify a No Lynch.

[TheTrollie]

Ok, perfect, so we have

Town:
Mykonian
EMP

for me, I add myself to that list...

so that leaves:
Dyrynify
Om
Smashbard

No one vote quite yet, I think now that we have 4 confirmed town players we should see what we can get from VCA (vote count analysis) I can do this later tonight but right now I gotta get ready to head out.

I like that list of three. The only issue is that I see very scummy play from all three. YES...that includes Om, who I had thought was obv-town until now. I will explain later.

Hold off on voting until we talk a bit.

[TheTrollie]

fuck...ok yeah i have lots to say but i really gotta get off MS right now or im gonna be late to a class.

[TheTrollie]

I have a few things I'm very skeptical of with Om's play.

I'm pretty sure today's lynch is dyr, but not positive.

I mean, one of the other things we should be doing is see if interactions make things real clear.

Mykonian, I don't blame u for wanting to take a look at me, which you can do, but I personally would really benefit from being able to work with you on this. I am in a rush to pack and get on the road, but a bit later tonight I am gonna go through and do VCAs and ISOs and all those other fun stuffs.

basically, the thing with Om, which Ill show you when i get to it, that I am really hating, is that i thought he was breadcrumbing doctor HARD. like i thought it was painfully obvious that he was PR, and now to learn that he is not, makes me think about all those breadcrumbs a different way. Also, idk maybe you didn't feel the same way, but if you did, then I think we can assume that the mafia would have thought he was Dr., and would have Nked him.

we shall discuss.

[TheTrollie]

Or as this game goes, i could be lying about every single thing..........

Interesting.

What do you find interesting about it?

If he is a town he has no reason to lie and he is claiming that he could be lying on first page for no reason puts me off my track's.

If i gain nothing, then it doesn't really matter whether i do it or not.
Whats to loose?

.....
I'm not sure about you, but we are certainly losing something really important.
You do realize that in this set-up it's important to hide who our PR's are, don't you?
You just unnecessarily reduced one possible slot to think over as possible PR for them, unless you're scum yourself claiming to be VT. This actually increased our chances of losing our PR in first night.

You should never claim unless you're on L-1. Some even argue against that.

all the talk about PRs here.

I don't see why scum wont try to kill tbh. This only means that

we outwitted them.

@Nacho, Why is em+p_dear your second suspect?

@kitiekatt, I'll appreciate if you can post your reads from D1.

ok this was the first post i started thinking Om was PR. ACTUALLY now that i think about it, in my notes, while catching up, i had him as "scummy" and then changed it tow town when i saw the crumbs. So this was nothing definite, but got me thinking that if Om was saying that "we outwitted them" it meant probably that he had to do with the decision. "we" didnt do shit...only the Doctor did. Ergo, maybe Om was doctor.

(Not dead)

@Om- Everyone hated him that day for the whole page 1 RC and his vote on smash/vote reveal. I'm not quite sure how to word it...I just think that if the mafia kill was blocked there's a good chance a power rule either new or took a chance that Xeg was town. The mafia may also have seen his RC as "Vanilla Townie" as (not just a bad move like the rest of the town) but suspicious. They may have suspected him for a doctor or jailer or whatever trying to be safe as a normal and figure they have nothing to lose if he really was vanilla townie. A rather farfetched theory, but still...

Is that why you tried to kill Xeg last night?

___________________________________________________________________________________________

did really no one see this/think it was something to talk about? I thought this was a Doc/Jailkeeper slip. Thats why I didnt say anything about it. its also why i asked him for his D1 read on Xeg. If it was a scum read, Om was Jailkeeper who was being dumb and not thinking about the fact that Xeg could have been the killer, if it was a town read, Om was Dr. who protected Xeg N1. He said Xeg was his top town read (a read that btw came out of nowhere on D1) so i figured Om was the Doctor. Now that i know he wasnt, this looks like a scumslip.

doctors be on me tonight

Why the hell would you do this? Explain pleas.

I'm stating intent to vote/hammer Dry

@Dry and @Smash
Make this interesting.

again, he makes a post that looks like it could come from the Dr. I thought Om was angry that I told him to protect me. Now it looks like opportunism.

So yeah, i am feeling pretty good about Om being scum after that ISO

[TheTrollie]

i might be more comfortable with an om lynch right now than i am a dyr...ill be back in a bit but if someone (mykonian) has time u should take a look at interactions and the wagons yesterday

[TheTrollie]

woah woah woah woah woah...

ok, so basically I was preparing a HUGE post after going through an Om/Dyr Co-ISO looking at their interactions.

Then somehow when i got to hitting "reply" the post box contained NONE of the posts i marked to quote...so idk what i did wrong.

Mykonian, i would look at it urself, its pretty easy to see that there is a long period where they completely avoid eachother, but there is a good amount of sheeping by dyr (i think, it was a bit unclear but it looked like dyr was sheeping om pretty hard). then the rest of their interactions are really fucking forced.

I say Dyr & OM scum team makes sense...and then I also just saw the Om self vote.

Om

little hint. If you are town, FUCKING UNVOTE URSELF RIGHT NOW. the only person who has made up his mind is mykonian. SECOND: now we are 100% in MYLO so if u are town, lynching you means we lose. There is really nothing that can be done to stop that.

[TheTrollie]

Mykonian, what do u make of Nacho's read on Om?

[TheTrollie]

^duh^ lol

[TheTrollie]

oh no...

is it smash/om?????

[TheTrollie]

VOTE COUNT 1.3

[L-4] Dyrynify:

Xegarus

[L-3]

Xegarus

: Dyrynify,

em+p_dear

[L-5]

em+p_dear

:
[L-5] Om:

[L-1]

TheDoctor

: Om,

CF Riot

,

Nachomamma8

, Smashbard

[L-5]

kitiekatt

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-5] Smashbard:
[L-5]

Nachomamma8

:

VOTE COUNT 1.4

[L-5] Dyrynify:
[L-4]

Xegarus

: Dyrynify
[L-5]

em+p_dear

:
[L-5] Om:

[L-2]

TheDoctor

: Om,

Nachomamma8

, Smashbard

[L-5]

kitiekatt

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-3] Smashbard:

CF Riot

,

Xegarus

[L-5]

Nachomamma8

:

VOTE COUNT 1.5

[L-5] Dyrynify:

[L-1]

Xegarus

: Dyrynify,

kitiekatt

, Smashbard,

TheDoctor

[L-5]

em+p_dear

:
[L-5] Om:
[L-3]

TheDoctor

: Om,

Nachomamma8

[L-5]

kitiekatt

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-3] Smashbard:

CF Riot

,

Xegarus

[L-5]

Nachomamma8

:

VOTE COUNT 1.6

[L-5] Dyrynify:

[L-2]

Xegarus

: Dyrynify,

kitiekatt

,

TheDoctor

[L-5]

em+p_dear

:
[L-5] Om:
[L-3]

TheDoctor

: Om,

Nachomamma8

[L-5]

kitiekatt

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-3] Smashbard:

CF Riot

,

Xegarus

[L-5]

Nachomamma8

:

VOTE COUNT 1.7

[L-5] Dyrynify:

[L-2]

Xegarus

: Dyrynify,

kitiekatt

,

TheDoctor

[L-5]

em+p_dear

:
[L-5] Om:

[L-1]

TheDoctor

: Om,

Nachomamma8

,

CF Riot

,

Xegarus

[L-5]

kitiekatt

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-5] Smashbard:
[L-5]

Nachomamma8

:

VOTE COUNT 1.8

[L-5] Dyrynify:
[L-3]

Xegarus

: Dyrynify,

kitiekatt

[L-5]

em+p_dear

:
[L-5] Om:

[L-1]

TheDoctor

: Om,

Nachomamma8

,

CF Riot

,

Xegarus

[L-5]

kitiekatt

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-5] Smashbard:
[L-5]

Nachomamma8

:


VOTE COUNT 1.9; FINAL VOTE COUNT OF DAY ONE

[L-5] Dyrynify:
[L-4]

Xegarus

:

kitiekatt

[L-5]

em+p_dear

:
[L-5] Om:

[LYNCH]

TheDoctor

: Om,

Nachomamma8

,

CF Riot

,

Xegarus

, Dyrynify

[L-5]

kitiekatt

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-5] Smashbard:
[L-5]

Nachomamma8

:

VOTE COUNT 2.3

[L-4] Dyrynify:

mykonian

[L-5]

Xegarus

mykonian

:
[L-4]

em+p_dear

:

Nachomamma8

[L-5] Om:
[L-5]

kitiekatt

SleepyKrew

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-5] Smashbard:
[L-4]

Nachomamma8

: Om

VOTE COUNT 2.5

[L-4] Dyrynify:

em+p_dear

[L-5]

mykonian

:

[L-2]

em+p_dear

:

Nachomamma8

, Smashbard, Dyrynify

[L-5] Om:
[L-5]

SleepyKrew

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-4] Smashbard:

mykonian

[L-3]

Nachomamma8

: Om,

CF Riot

VOTE COUNT 2.6

[L-2] Dyrynify:

em+p_dear

,

Nachomamma8

, Smashbard

[L-5]

mykonian

:
[L-4]

em+p_dear

: Dyrynify
[L-5] Om:
[L-5]

SleepyKrew

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-4] Smashbard:

mykonian

[L-3]

Nachomamma8

: Om,

CF Riot

VOTE COUNT 2.8

[L-2] Dyrynify:

em+p_dear

,

Nachomamma8

, Smashbard

[L-5]

mykonian

:
[L-4]

em+p_dear

: Dyrynify
[L-5] Om:
[L-5]

SleepyKrew

TheTrollie

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-3] Smashbard:

mykonian

,

CF Riot

[L-3]

Nachomamma8

: Om,

TheTrollie

VOTE COUNT 2.9; FINAL VOTE COUNT OF DAY TWO

[L-3] Dyrynify:

Nachomamma8

, Smashbard
[L-5]

mykonian

:
[L-5]

em+p_dear

:
[L-5] Om:
[L-5]

TheTrollie

:
[L-5]

CF Riot

:
[L-4] Smashbard:

mykonian

[LYNCH]

Nachomamma8

: Om,

em+p_dear

,

CF Riot

,

TheTrollie

, Dyrynify

[TheTrollie]

You guys can hem and haw and flip flop as to whether or not you think I'm scum with Dyrnify, Dyrnify is scum with Om, Dyrnify is scum with TheTrollie, I'm scum with Om, I'm scum with TheTrollie, Om is scum with TheTrollie, whatever you like. Dyrnify is scum. So scummy he refuses to even post in this game anymore because he's caught so bad. You can either lynch scum with me or run away from the wagon like lemmings and hope that Dyrnify busses whoever it is you think is scummier than him.

Vote: Dyrnify

what do you find to be unconvincing in Myko & My arguments for Scum-Om?

[TheTrollie]

TheDoctor

Never trust Doctors.

Ooopssss correction

Vote:TheDoctor

Vote:Nacho

I agree to that but you're missing what I'm actually saying, the very fact that you couldn't be one of his possible Cop targets (Me, Em or Xeg) means you're likely scum over all three of them by PoE if one of the Dry and Smash flipped town.

uhhhh...(1) where did Xeg come from in there (2) no, because he only investigated ONE of you, meaning the other two are still just as likely to be scum as I am.

A PoE from my spot keeps you more into gray area then other two since that not guilty result was not on you.
Xeg is there 'cause of his P1 VT claim and if I put myself in Cop shoes, he is likely to be someone I would like to check out for exactly situations like this. And I can't eliminate him since CF never wanted or voted Xeg slot on D2. So, yes, your earlier statement implying that ''tomorrow it will be one of smash or Dry and Myko are the ones we will be looking at'', is not something I'm agreeing on atm.

All this said and done, lets keep this for tomorrow as I'm 99% sure we have both our scums nailed here.

@Dry, I saw you reading this thread, why are you avoiding to post?

Or are you waiting out to see where wind blows and quick hammer again?

Honestly? I decided way back in D1 that I was gonna play this by kicking the hornets nest and seeing what happens. I am just enjoying watching everyone scurry around.

Ok, you seriously need to go down.

Dyrynify

Someone hammer this scum.

Pedit: Wow! smash is certainly making it interesting. Let's see you voting your scumbuddy Smash, are you up for it?

Looks like you've made up your mind. :/

Good luck guys, let's hope scum derp tonight and fail to kill someone. It was good learning game for me :3

Vote OM

My town read has made up his mind voting me, so obv. scum will do so to, I'll be stuck at L-1 for rest of the day and I see no point in sagging the game more and wasting time tbh

I'll let you have more time if you need to go trough my ISO more though, but I'll be voting myself if needed and nothing has changed.

Unvote

@mod did a prod go out to dyr?

[TheTrollie]

myko why did u just vote dyr

im not voting dyr...

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: om

i was just waiting for dyr

[TheTrollie]

UNVOTE:

on my phone but need to make a post before i put my vote back

[TheTrollie]

Ok, what i wanted to say was that before this day ends we need to talk about tomorrow.

actually, fuck, nvm...either way we are left with smash and dyr to lynch tomorrow. I forgot about that No-kill N1 that set us up for these MYLOs.

VOTE: OM

[TheTrollie]

Sorry, my family had to move on crazy short notice. I'm back.

But,

why have I not been lynched yet?

What is taking you so long, smash? is your scum partner not cooperating?

Looks like you've made up your mind. :/

Good luck guys, let's hope scum derp tonight and fail to kill someone. It was good learning game for me :3

Vote OM

I love how both of them are using the same strat against their lynch lol.

okok dyr will u just quickhammer already.

[TheTrollie]

guys,

Dyr is not going to give us any more content.

I am 100% certain on Om. He slipped, and he couched his vote on both days. He never even undid his RVS.

I am 100% certain.

[TheTrollie]

tomorrow. If you are town, you hammer here. I'm not moving again.

I'm honestly not sure about dyr...let me just ISO him once more

[TheTrollie]

fuck...

alright fine, but only because the two ...no
no no no

what the fuc....aghhhhhh FUCK YOU MYKO y cant we just lynch om.

Smash's vote on Dyr was really bad. he was just like "why are you guys making reads gosh u guyz are so dumb we should just vote the ppl we wanted to vote before we actually tried scumhunting"

i get that the 2 conftown votes are on dyr so that mea....wow wow wow....i need a sec

[TheTrollie]

i get that, thats great, but my dyr read is full of WIFOMy shit about smash and om, whereas my om read is 100%

[TheTrollie]

no i dont mean the read isnt. I mean that since im 100% on om, there is WIFOM about why smashbard is on dyr and why Om isnt, and why Dyr is on OM. i cant deal with that wifom till tomorrow.

just lynch scum, come on

[TheTrollie]

ok so smash is town

om is the last scum

sorry myko, shoulda listened.
tomorrow we lynch om, we all sleep happily

[TheTrollie]

guys,

Dyr is not going to give us any more content.

I am 100% certain on Om. He slipped, and he couched his vote on both days. He never even undid his RVS.

I am 100% certain.

Just for purpose of replying to this;
1.I already answered why I asked that question to Em, it was one of my 'are you scum' or 'who is your partner' type of things and I was specific about Xeg to her since she herself mentioned Xeg as prime target in her post with hell of lot explanation too. I was looking at the possibility of she being the scum and making scum slip or role fishing, so I was hoping I would get some reactions out of her by asking that.
Not that it matters since her reply to me made it clear that she was the one who protected him, so I didn't pursue that line further.

2.Why would I undoo my RVS when the one I was voting was the scummiest person on D1 and my strongest scum read?

Btw, VCA is a really bad way to form an argument if you don't have one scum already flipped.

what i did was not VCA, it was that u tunnelled ur way all through D1 and D2

[TheTrollie]

there was no reason to not lynch om yesterday, but whatever

[TheTrollie]

I feel you, yesterday another game ended for me so i got very invested in keeping this one going...but i understand the need to end it

[TheTrollie]

anyway,

Om, good game. The only thing I would say is that I only had you as conf town because I thought you were hard crumbing ur PR. Once i realized u weren't claiming on D3, and instead EMP claimed, all those crumbs became obvious scumtells.

That being said, idk if you were intentionally fake-crumbing, but if you were, and if you counterclaimed EMP, my vote would have been on EMP in a second (granted, not after you refused to claim but agreed with myko that doc should claim, but if EMP had claimed first, or you had claimed first, those fake-crumbs would have had me believing you way before EMP)