Newbie 1310: A WILD CHARIZARD APPEARED! - GAME OVER

[TheDoctor]

Vote: kitiekatt

For trying to act like a cute kitty and thus throw suspicion away from themselves. Also, Hello!

[TheDoctor]

1) What draws you to play the game of Mafia? What are some of your favorite things about the game?
I don't really know...it's just a lot of fun. It's almost like playing poker.

2) Do you tend to take the game very seriously and become aggressive/defensive or do you take a light hearted approach and just go with the flow?
I take all games much more seriously than I should, and I am naturally very aggressive, which comes through in the way I play.

3) How much do you value your gut reads in comparison to another players reads? Do you tend to doubt yourself or tunnel your suspects?
We have no real evidence to go on, so gut feelings are a major part, and I never fully trust anyone else in these games, so I value my own reads above anyone else, and I doubt everything. I am always open to new ideas.

[TheDoctor]

1) What draws you to play the game of Mafia? What are some of your favorite things about the game?
I don't really know...it's just a lot of fun. It's almost like playing poker.

2) Do you tend to take the game very seriously and become aggressive/defensive or do you take a light hearted approach and just go with the flow?
I take all games much more seriously than I should, and I am naturally very aggressive, which comes through in the way I play.

3) How much do you value your gut reads in comparison to another players reads? Do you tend to doubt yourself or tunnel your suspects?
We have no real evidence to go on, so gut feelings are a major part, and I never fully trust anyone else in these games, so I value my own reads above anyone else, and I doubt everything. I am always open to new ideas.

All that and nothing to add on P1 claim?

I didn't really think anything needed to be added. It was dumb. I hate RC'ing at any stage, I think it detracts from the game.

[TheDoctor]

Unvote

Vote CF Riot

For assassinating someone and trying to take their place without us noticing

Unvote

/me hopes the mod doesn't kill me for that....

Welcome Riot!

I actually agree that Dyrynify's vote seems a little too hastly, but he saw something scummy and he went for it. I certainly won't vote for him because of it, but I will keep my eye on him. As for you X, your RC did nothing, as of yet, but might help to expose Dyrynify later on. Only time will tell. Even if it does end up helping the town, It's not something I would ever do. This game, to me, is about figuring out things. Investigation. RC'ing, again, for me, kills that to some extent. An RC could be a complete lie, but even a lie gives away a lot of information.

[TheDoctor]

1) What draws you to play the game of Mafia? What are some of your favorite things about the game?
I don't really know...it's just a lot of fun. It's almost like playing poker.

2) Do you tend to take the game very seriously and become aggressive/defensive or do you take a light hearted approach and just go with the flow?
I take all games much more seriously than I should, and I am naturally very aggressive, which comes through in the way I play.

3) How much do you value your gut reads in comparison to another players reads? Do you tend to doubt yourself or tunnel your suspects?
We have no real evidence to go on, so gut feelings are a major part, and I never fully trust anyone else in these games, so I value my own reads above anyone else, and I doubt everything. I am always open to new ideas.

All that and nothing to add on P1 claim?

I didn't really think anything needed to be added. It was dumb. I hate RC'ing at any stage, I think it detracts from the game.

I had read, and read the responses to his RC. He did something dumb, and he was getting grilled for it, but I did not see any reason to add to a lynch mob mentality. I was sitting out to see if I saw anything worth pointing out. I'm not a big fan of repeating things others have said, but I guess I will be forced to do so on this site.

Senjai has been replaced by the magnificent CF Riot. Welcome him.

Unvote

Vote CF Riot

For assassinating someone and trying to take their place without us noticing

Unvote

/me hopes the mod doesn't kill me for that....

Welcome Riot!

I actually agree that Dyrynify's vote seems a little too hastly, but he saw something scummy and he went for it. I certainly won't vote for him because of it, but I will keep my eye on him. As for you X, your RC did nothing, as of yet, but might help to expose Dyrynify later on. Only time will tell. Even if it does end up helping the town, It's not something I would ever do. This game, to me, is about figuring out things. Investigation. RC'ing, again, for me, kills that to some extent. An RC could be a complete lie, but even a lie gives away a lot of information.

I welcomed Riot. Then I said what I thought about the exchange between Dyr and X. What I meant by exposing Dyr is that he might well be scum, and he might do the same thing to other people later on. Seems like he was looking for any excuse to vote, and that seems like a scum tell to me.
On the other side though, X's RC was very dumb, for multiple reasons. Giving away any information for free is very dumb in this game.

VOTE: Nachomamma8, cause they are the only person I have played with before.

HI, NACHO!

Hello. Ready to lynch scum day one again? Good.

I will ask all of you a small series of questions to gauge where we are all coming from. There really isn't a wrong answer to any of these questions. This is just a way to break the ice.

Break the ice and... delay the actual game from beginning. Question 1 is nice for getting to know people, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other threads on site if you want to meet people and find out why they play. Question 2 is... useless, obviously. 3 is also useless. Of course everyone trusts their own reads instead of their own unless someone else is convincing or not. None of these help with scumhunting, all of these add useless things to my thread. Please don't do random questions ever again pretty pretty please. These were less anti-town than they usually are, but that doesn't mean they are good

I'll say this now, i'm a vanilla town.
Whether i'm lying or not is up to you.
But if something doesn't add up, then SOMEONE did lie.

Mmmm... don't do this. If you are lying as town, then your PR claim won't be believed down the road, which is a very, very bad thing, since you would probably be forced to claim when a majority of the town finds you scummy anyways. If you are telling the truth as town, then you're basically saying "hey guys, I make a perfectly good mislynch! Don't kill me!" if they paranoid of you being a PR, they will rolecop you. They will not kill you. If you are mafia, this just brings the spotlight to you.

If i gain nothing, then it doesn't really matter whether i do it or not.
Whats to loose?

If you gain nothing, you probably don't want to do it. You can never really gauge consequences until they are hitting you in the face in most scenarios.

I understand how random questions can be a stupid thing and basically force people to post for the sake of posting. But is that really so bad early on in the game? (thats a serious question)

Yes it is. The opening of games is extremely important, and RQS makes them a lot more muddled, a lot less advantageous for town. If you get the game started early and you don't give scum time to get comfortable, then things get interesting. For example, I normally would call Doctor scum for avoiding things and posting crap (I still probably will), but for now, I don't really know whether he is newbie who doesn't know where to start and so goes with answering random questions, or whether he is scum coasting.

I really like em+d and Dyr for town.

And yeah, gonna vote Doc anyways.

Vote: TheDoctor

Ok. Very well stated and I see your point on the RQS. I suppose I did avoid the P1 RC, but I didn't ignore or fail to read it. As far as posting crap goes, well, what I posted makes sense to me. The voting/unvoting for Riot was me welcoming him. I unvoted because we are past the spam vote stage, and I didn't want to leave my vote on someone that had just joined the game. I wasn't sure if the mod would kill/ban me for annoying them.

You always lynch on D1. You lynch on most days. The reason is lynching is how scum dies. If you don't lynch, scum don't die. Love your lynch.

Nacho, post you barnacle.

Yes. I don't even care if we lynch me, as long as we lynch. I hate NL's.

Are you sure its always good to lynch everyday, especially D1?

If you lynch say on D1, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance getting town. Now N1, a town will always be killed. So by lynching eveyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1.
Now i know that eliminating scum is how you win the game for town. But can't that be said as keeping as many townies alive?

Mmmm... don't do this. If you are lying as town, then your PR claim won't be believed down the road, which is a very, very bad thing, since you would probably be forced to claim when a majority of the town finds you scummy anyways. If you are telling the truth as town, then you're basically saying "hey guys, I make a perfectly good mislynch! Don't kill me!" if they paranoid of you being a PR, they will rolecop you. They will not kill you. If you are mafia, this just brings the spotlight to you.

So what you're saying that it's a bad move if i am town or scum. Hence just a bad move altogether?

If you gain nothing, you probably don't want to do it. You can never really gauge consequences until they are hitting you in the face in most scenarios.

Sure, you can't gauge some consequences until it's too late.

I really like em+d and Dyr for town.

Why?
Am i really to close to see exactly whats so town about them?

And yeah, gonna vote Doc anyways.

What is the main reason why?

I actually agree that Dyrynify's vote seems a little too hastly, but he saw something scummy and he went for it. I certainly won't vote for him because of it, but I will keep my eye on him. As for you X, your RC did nothing, as of yet, but might help to expose Dyrynify later on. Only time will tell. Even if it does end up helping the town, It's not something I would ever do. This game, to me, is about figuring out things. Investigation. RC'ing, again, for me, kills that to some extent. An RC could be a complete lie, but even a lie gives away a lot of information.

This seems like commenting on the Roleclaim event to me. Unless everyone has noticed something else major going on beyond Xega's roleclaim that should be discussed.

Regardless, this entire post reeks of fence sitting to me upon review. As well as a few other choice tells. The quick vote, unvote and playful aside about not wanting to be modkilled seems like he's afraid to die, or even draw attention to himself. Could be a very early scum catch here.

Unvote. Vote: TheDoctor

As for you X, your RC did nothing, as of yet, but might help to expose Dyrynify later on. Only time will tell.

To Drynify: What do you suppose TheDoctor means when he says you might be exposed later on? I'd like your take on that.

~Vote tags and quote tags were fixed.

I mean I think he might be scum, just like I think everyone might be scum. The RC was dumb, but I think that he was too....eager to vote. But, it also drew a lot of attention to himself, so maybe I am over-thinking it.

To Drynify: What do you suppose TheDoctor means when he says you might be exposed later on? I'd like your take on that.

Honestly? I have not given it much thought. It seems a lot like fishing to me. Almost like he was hoping I would reflexively shout, "But I am so totally not scum, you guys!" I am not sure he thinks I am scum, but it looks like he might.

I am still not sure how my targeting of a scummy action makes me scummy, but whatever.

I will say that the post quoted by you is a very buddy-buddy post by TheDoctor. Scum buddy level? That remains to be seen.

No, I was not posting to get a reaction from you. I was not thinking about anyone's reaction when I posted it. I don't have that kind of foresight.

I see the vote for Doc cause he answered the random Q's and posting crap, but I'm wondering why. A lot of us answered those random q's (which I think is what you're referencing as posting crap), was there other crap he posted or something other than the answering of the random questions that makes him more scummy? Cause if it's just for answering those questions that could be a lot of people.

It wasn't the answering questions that set me off, it was more that he did absolutely nothing else with it.

The fact that he didn't respond to the page one VT claim tells me that he hasn't read

, but if he hasn't read, then how did he know to answer those RQS questions? More likely than not, he was looking for something to post, found the random questions, answered them, and stopped reading. That tells me he's just posting to get by, which makes him likelier scum than not.

I read it, and the reactions to it. I didn't have anything new to add. How many people need to tell him that it was dumb?

I should also say that while i don't think RC Is THAT big of a deal, i do concede that it may have been a bad idea.

Hey, I'll say it again. It was dumb. You gave away information. The mafia knows that you are not a PR, or you are mafia and you brought attention to yourself.

[TheDoctor]

The mafia knows that you are not a PR, or you are mafia and you brought attention to yourself.

How would they know if i am or not a PR?
They would have to believe me first. Its not like anyone is taking anything at face value.

If i was either mafia or town, i kinda have already brought attention to myself.

I really wasn't going to point out that, if you are town, you might have been lying about being vanilla.

[TheDoctor]

I had read, and read the responses to his RC. He did something dumb, and he was getting grilled for it, but I did not see any reason to add to a lynch mob mentality. I was sitting out to see if I saw anything worth pointing out. I'm not a big fan of repeating things others have said, but I guess I will be forced to do so on this site.

Never asked you to repeat what others have said; I am asking you to take your own position on a situation. Do you think the claim was more likely to come from a scum viewpoint, or a town viewpoint? Why?

It could come from either. It's a bad play either way.

[TheDoctor]

Could you possibly be a little more non committal, Doc? Thanks.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I had to commit to anything. Let me fix that. I don't have a fucking clue if he is town or not.

[TheDoctor]

Bard you crack me up. You seriously don't understand how policy lynches work though. And you didn't refute my case, you just said "they did it too" like that means anything and now I've explained the difference between you and everybody else so you can't even use that anymore.

Actually, I have to agree with Bard. He placed the vote because he felt that Xeg was a danger to the town. Since then CF has seemed to defend Xeg quite a bit, and it looks to me like a badly performing scum team.

Plus, this:

Hey smash, remember when you voted for Doc and made sure you reminded everyone he was L-1, yeh that was cute. Hoped someone else would just jump?

seems like a scum mentality. As town, I would have seen that as a yellow light/yield sign, to stop and think before placing more votes. Xegarus, you saw it as a green light for an easy lynch.

VOTE: Xegarus

[TheDoctor]

Also, I think that's L-1

[TheDoctor]

Actually, I'm voting you because you would be less of a loss to the town if you turn out to be town.

[TheDoctor]

ok. I've got a brief due in 3 days, so I'll try and do the ISOs either tomorrow night, or Sunday night. Complete with fancy multiple quotes now that I know how to do it. That should also answer your questions/concerns too Nacho.
@Om, Is Xegar your top town read for good reasons or for no good reason? That part in the parentheses confused me.

His RC (which is not pro-town but not a scum motivated either, hence a bad reason) and his overall reaction filled with semi admittance of genuine mistake and semi defensive arguments when pointed out why RC is a bad idea is a good town tell for me.
Plus;
He immediately called out our IC, usually scum's are very happy to have laid back IC when they commit mistakes, specially considering the situation he was in and his apparent inexperience, that's town+ tell for me.
34
This one was good.

I still don't like how he followed CF to jump on Bard, but it's not scum motivated either, no reason for scum to stick their already troubled neck out in the open. To my surprise; it seems to have worked though.
That only further solidifies him as my top town read.

Do you still find him scummy? Yes, why?

@Smashbard, That should help you understand why Xeg is my top town read as well.

@Mod: I think Emp-Dear is due for a prod?

Good point
UNVOTE: Unvote

unvote: vote The Doc

Time to pile drive this into the ground.

Why?

hey xegarus, what did you think of the person who put you at L-1?

I would have to say that he looks pretty scummy to me.

When he was questioned about why he didn't mention my RC (which a lot of you have pointed out was a huge thing not to do and could make him look scummy there) he said in #31

I didn't really think anything needed to be added. It was dumb. I hate RC'ing at any stage, I think it detracts from the game.

I dont know what it is about the wording but it just rubs me the wrong way. Kinda like he was trying to cement an idea very early on into the game.

And might i ask the more experienced.
Is RC so bad during the later stages of the game?
Yeh i know, ive been a bad boy with my RC and all that crap but isn't RC eventually part of the game towards the end?
And if so, how could that detract from the game?

#53

I actually agree that Dyrynify's vote seems a little too hastly, but he saw something scummy and he went for it. I certainly won't vote for him because of it, but I will keep my eye on him. As for you X, your RC did nothing, as of yet, but might help to expose Dyrynify later on. Only time will tell. Even if it does end up helping the town, It's not something I would ever do. This game, to me, is about figuring out things. Investigation. RC'ing, again, for me, kills that to some extent. An RC could be a complete lie, but even a lie gives away a lot of information.

After chatting some crap about CF coming and vote/unvoting him he appeared to agree with me when i said i thought Dyr's vote was a little hasty (something i have retracted) and then also agree with Dyr without having his own stance on the matter. As Smash said, it does reek with fence sitting.

In post 86 he claims that he wasn't looking to get a reaction from Dyr

No, I was not posting to get a reaction from you. I was not thinking about anyone's reaction when I posted it. I don't have that kind of foresight.

But how can you not expect it to look as if he was fishing if he talks about catching certain people out and talking about exposing them later.

Hey, I'll say it again. It was dumb. You gave away information. The mafia knows that you are not a PR, or you are mafia and you brought attention to yourself.

Here he just goes on assuming things about PRs. But what irks me about this is the

mafia KNOWS

part.

It could come from either. It's a bad play either way.

Heres some more fence sitting by making his statement kinda vague and making the point of interest in this statement the 'bad play either way'

Could you possibly be a little more non committal, Doc? Thanks.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I had to commit to anything. Let me fix that. I don't have a fucking clue if he is town or not.

And then looks like he got a little agitated and gave a semi aggressive response to Dyr. Which still said nothing.

Actually, I have to agree with Bard. He placed the vote because he felt that Xeg was a danger to the town. Since then CF has seemed to defend Xeg quite a bit, and it looks to me like a badly performing scum team.


VOTE: Xegarus

Actually, I'm voting you because you would be less of a loss to the town if you turn out to be town.

........
Wait what?
Says i'm part of a badly performing scum team, votes and then says his reason for voting was because if i happen to be town, it would be a lesser loss.

Like Nacho said, this looks like bullshit to me.
Doesn't pick a side for the majority of the game.
Votes me but gives 2 contradicting reasons for the vote.

Xeg re: post 172, I can see you interpreting those posts that way. They are kind of ick. But tbh I don't really feel like Brad is that scummy. He responded pretty well to both of us voting him, even if that was sort of alleviated by the fact that a lot of people threw the spotlight back on you right after. Plus he's unvoting now which is a point in his favor I think.

I take your point.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Doc

Yeah, I was fence sitting, because I didn't have a read on you until CF started defending you. That whole exchange looked scummy to me, and I voted. Plus, I don't feel that my reasons contradicted themselves. You were not a strong town player, I thought you were part of a scum team, and the other person seems like a better player overall. If you had come up scum, then I'm assuming we all would have lynched CF. If not, then we would have lost a townie that had RC'd on the first day.

Also, I said that I do not like RC'ing at any stage. It may be something that happens in every game on this site, if so, I probably won't play here very long. This game is not about role claiming, it's about figuring out who is town and who is not. We could all come in and RC on D1 if we wanted, and that would be very boring. I will never RC, at any time, in any game.

[TheDoctor]

I will never RC, at any time, in any game.

Doc wants you to drop the hammer. Give 'em what he wants.

Just when I think you're town. I'm still waiting for you to explain why you voted for me.

[TheDoctor]

He doesn't really mean any of that, it's just pretense to suspect Xeg.

I'm sorry, that's bull. I mean all of that, and I backed off of Xeg.

[TheDoctor]

What? That we disagree on role claiming? Sure, I disagree with you.

[TheDoctor]

Announcing intent to hammer. I'd like a claim from TheDoctor, whether he agrees with them or not. Also, if anybody has any further questions or objections, feel free to ask them now.

If there are no objections, I'll be hammering the day after Christmas. Because anything before that is just cruelty.

I have an objection to being hammered...I'm not going to RC to save myself though. An RC should not save anyone, because mafia will never come out and claim mafia. If you expect everyone at L-1 to RC, then it makes it really easy for the mafia to role fish.