Newbie 1310: A WILD CHARIZARD APPEARED! - GAME OVER

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TheDoctor

Never trust Doctors.

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Ooopssss correction

Vote:TheDoctor

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Vote: Om.

I don't know about you. But I like doctors. They can swing these kind of games drastically in towns favor.

Hi, this is Smashbard. I am a designated SE for this game, but really that shouldn't mean anything to you beyond the fact that I've had a few more games on site than you. I will try to answer any questions about Mafia in case Nacho is not available. As I tend to post really late a night you can expect the majority of my activity to be around that time.

I will ask all of you a small series of questions to gauge where we are all coming from. There really isn't a wrong answer to any of these questions. This is just a way to break the ice.

1) What draws you to play the game of Mafia? What are some of your favorite things about the game?

2) Do you tend to take the game very seriously and become aggressive/defensive or do you take a light hearted approach and just go with the flow?

3) How much do you value your gut reads in comparison to another players reads? Do you tend to doubt yourself or tunnel your suspects?

I look forward to playing with you all!

I was talking about the Doctors IRL not as a game role, they are mean <.<

Answers:
1.I find Mafia fun. I haven't really played for long, but so far I'm enjoying myself.

2.That's kind of hard to tell from my own viewpoint, it depends on the game actually, but usually light hearted.

3.I value my gut reads more then other players reads unless there is sufficient evidence/good argument backing them. I might even get to fixated sometimes, but I'm trying to learn and improve on it.

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Or as this game goes, i could be lying about every single thing..........

Interesting.

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Or as this game goes, i could be lying about every single thing..........

Interesting.

What do you find interesting about it?

If he is a town he has no reason to lie and he is claiming that he could be lying on first page for no reason puts me off my track's.

If i gain nothing, then it doesn't really matter whether i do it or not.
Whats to loose?

.....
I'm not sure about you, but we are certainly losing something really important.
You do realize that in this set-up it's important to hide who our PR's are, don't you?
You just unnecessarily reduced one possible slot to think over as possible PR for them, unless you're scum yourself claiming to be VT. This actually increased our chances of losing our PR in first night.

You should never claim unless you're on L-1. Some even argue against that.

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1) What draws you to play the game of Mafia? What are some of your favorite things about the game?
I don't really know...it's just a lot of fun. It's almost like playing poker.

2) Do you tend to take the game very seriously and become aggressive/defensive or do you take a light hearted approach and just go with the flow?
I take all games much more seriously than I should, and I am naturally very aggressive, which comes through in the way I play.

3) How much do you value your gut reads in comparison to another players reads? Do you tend to doubt yourself or tunnel your suspects?
We have no real evidence to go on, so gut feelings are a major part, and I never fully trust anyone else in these games, so I value my own reads above anyone else, and I doubt everything. I am always open to new ideas.

All that and nothing to add on P1 claim?

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So, Om, what do you have to add?

Seems to easy, to easy is never good.

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You always lynch on D1. You lynch on most days. The reason is lynching is how scum dies. If you don't lynch, scum don't die. Love your lynch.

Nacho, post you barnacle.

Are you sure its always good to lynch everyday, especially D1?

If you lynch say on D1, you have a chance of getting scum, which is great but you also have a chance getting town. Now N1, a town will always be killed. So by lynching eveyday, you increase the chance of losing 2 town compared to only loosing 1.
Now i know that eliminating scum is how you win the game for town. But can't that be said as keeping as many townies alive?

I'll do statistical anlysis for you I read long time ago and agree to it to make things simple.
Let's take this game setup as an example.
7 town
2 scum

Let's say that the town decide to NL D1, but lynch every day from then, and scum also kills every night.
Day 2: 6 town, 2 scum. (25% chance of hitting scum)
Day 3: 4 town, 2 scum. (33% chance of hitting scum)

Now let's say town lynch D1:
D2: 5 town, 2 scum. (28.5% chance of hitting scum)
Day 3: 3 town, 2 scum. (40% chance of hitting scum)

As you can see, we've a greater chance of hitting scum if we lynch anyone D1. Plus, all that wagon analysis thing for D2. Hence, it's almost always good idea to lynch on D1.

I would like elaboration as to why theres a wagon on the doctor and why empdear is town. I see dry and xegarus as town. Don't know about nacho. He wan this chummy in our last game. *Wasnt

He answered all your random questions, but he completely ignored the most important issue in the thread. Stupid or not, people who don't respond with at least a ''wow!'' or ''wtf'' minimal to something like P1 RC makes me tingly. My vote was on him from RVS, but it is a serious vote now.

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@TheDoctor;

''Sitting out''

is not a pro-town thing. You'll be policy lynch target in any game you may play on this site not just this. So yes, you will be forced. It's a site meta.

@Xegaeus; In your state it would be best for us if you stopped making arguments like this..

How would they know if i am or not a PR?
They would have to believe me first. Its not like anyone is taking anything at face value.

You're only piling on your initial mistake of early RC and causing distraction. If you're not a scum, it's a really really bad idea.

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I like how most of you missed the point.
I have already accepted that it was a bad idea.
I was mearly asking Doc how they would know that I am not a PR.
He specifically said 'now they know you are not a PR'
I've actually said before that scum knows as much as they did before.
Meaning yeh sure they know who is scum, therefore they know who is town, but they do not know the roles.
Scum would still have to either believe me or not.
But thank you seriously for telling me what I already know.

As CF said, this argument was settled.

Asking for explanation for that is ''exactly'' what I was referring to as ''really really bad idea''.

Nevertheless, explain to me why is your vote still on Dry?

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....Its still on?
Woops.

I planned to unvote during the 'I voted for you for Y' post I made.
I should stop using my phone.

UNVOTE:
I was going to say that my reason for voting was his hastiness but as time has gone by, the less I actually believe it my self.

Not going to place it on anyone?

Any thoughts on Doc?

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I understand that it looks weird to say the least that you ask me for a reason and i say 'i have one,

but i'm not going to tell you'

.
But if you trust that i have a reason and believe you understand it, don't mention it.

Why?

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@Dyr: You're the best scumhunter ever. I'm shaking in my booties now.

@Bard: Shad go having, how am I budding Xeg?

@Katt: What are you talking about? Bandwagons on scum rule.

Just for the record, I have seen many a town withhold giving reasons for whatever action in a game before, including votes

.

And I'm yet to see how that's helpful in convincing others to vote for same. Do enlighten VI like me.

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Well, that's not always the intent. I don't feel super comfortable discussing the issue because I assume Xeg is doing it for a reason but I don't really know what he's trying to achieve and this may throw a wrench in it.

Hollow votes don't achieve anything.

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TheDoctor wrote: it looks to me like a badly performing scum team.

I don't think CF is stupid enough to have his supposed partner RC on P1. Even if by chance it was not what he intended, jumping on your wagon and actually getting you lynched would be much much easier for him then trying to form new one by tunneling Brad. That to with someone like Xeg or should I say his alleged partner according to you?

Where is our IC when you need one?

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@Nacho, Not anymore.

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@ Xegar- I didn't vote you just cause of you withholding your reason for voting Smash. It was also the RC. Those are the two big reasons. The RC alone wasn't enough to do it but the reason withholding did it for me. I agree with what others are saying that the pressure can work even if it is known to be pressure. Did you feel Smash was scummy before CF said anything? Why did you so readily run with what CF was asking you to do at the time?

@CF Bandwagoning scum is good if it actually gets scum lynched. But if we don't know who is scum and don't have any night information yet, then bandwagoning with no reason gives us less info to work off of. If we talk it out, we can still see who jumps on a vote (just like we would in a bandwagon), but we also have their reasoning behind it.

@Nacho- Why do you have a preference for me as scum?

@Nacho, Not anymore.

Om, What does this post mean? I'm not getting it in the context of Nacho's post before it.

PS- Sorry I can't quote everyone else that I spoke to in this post, I don't know how to quote multiple posts yet when I post.

I wanted to have his input on validity of Xeg not giving reason for his vote thingy on Brad as he is the only other experienced player directly involved in that argument (CF/Brad thing). He did exactly that and my question about it was answered before asking.

What's your take on TheDoctor wagon?

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who was not directly involved*

ooops

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I'm totally calling him Brad for the rest of the game now.

Lol I was sure it was Brad not Bard till I read this. <.<

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Unvote.

I want to be clear, I still believe Xegarus is the scummiest person thus far. But since he caved his reasons for voting me once he hit L-1 I'd rather not lynch him just yet before I've had a chance to analyze the other players this game.

Before you voted Xeg for his unwillingness to share his reason, you were voting for Doc. There is absolutely nothing else has happened in the thread between time of you unvoting Doc and voting Xeg. So, now that Xeg has explained his reasons, why the delay before going back on Doc?

Thanks CF!

What's your take on TheDoctor wagon?

I seriously had no idea why it was going on until Nacho I think it was clarified that it was because, from what I gathered, he was talking less about game stuff and had just answered the random q's. It struck me as odd for CF to jump on right away, but he had his reasons, and then when Nacho came on I just assumed Brad (haha, loving it!) felt more comfortable coming in after an IC weighed in on it. I still don't really get a scum read off of Doc, I did an unvote (albeit not in the same post) and was worried myself about annoying the mod....I also initially had some real misgivings with posting things just for the sake of sharing my opinion, and didn't post as much as I would have liked in the first few pages cause I didn't have this fantastic original thought or question. So I guess it seems less scummy to me. I'm not ruling him out I just didn't jump on the wagon.

Could you try to re-evaluate both Doc and Xeg by going trough their ISO and tell me what you think again, if possible?

@Nacho;
Why are you in so many games at the same time? -.-'
I tried to look for your most recent scum & town flipped games but I got lost in your post clutter of current games and failed. Could you point me in the right direction?

@CD & @Bard, I would like to request same from both of you as well.

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Who's CD? Is that me?

Yes, it was a typo.
Damn! I might have everyone's names changed by the time we are done with the game ;-;
I should start using preview option.

I tried to look for your most recent scum & town flipped games but I got lost in your post clutter of current games and failed. Could you point me in the right direction?

Here is my most recent newbie game that hasn't made it to the wiki yet.
Here is my wiki, which will give you all of the recent games you will ever desire.
Also, clicking 'search by topic' is usually much more manageable in looking through posts.

Thank you!

Are you looking for me to say something specific here Om, or are you just not satisfied with my take? Request kind of sounds like a teacher whose student got the answer wrong, but you don't wanna say they're wrong, so I'm wondering if that's how you meant it or not?

I'm just wondering why my top town read (for not good reason) is on L-1 rather then my top scum read. So, yes, you can say I'm not satisfied with it if that helps.

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Smash unvoted so L-2*

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ok. I've got a brief due in 3 days, so I'll try and do the ISOs either tomorrow night, or Sunday night. Complete with fancy multiple quotes now that I know how to do it. That should also answer your questions/concerns too Nacho.
@Om, Is Xegar your top town read for good reasons or for no good reason? That part in the parentheses confused me.

His RC (which is not pro-town but not a scum motivated either, hence a bad reason) and his overall reaction filled with semi admittance of genuine mistake and semi defensive arguments when pointed out why RC is a bad idea is a good town tell for me.
Plus;
He immediately called out our IC, usually scum's are very happy to have laid back IC when they commit mistakes, specially considering the situation he was in and his apparent inexperience, that's town+ tell for me.
34
This one was good.

I still don't like how he followed CF to jump on Bard, but it's not scum motivated either, no reason for scum to stick their already troubled neck out in the open. To my surprise; it seems to have worked though.
That only further solidifies him as my top town read.

Do you still find him scummy? Yes, why?

@Smashbard, That should help you understand why Xeg is my top town read as well.

@Mod: I think Emp-Dear is due for a prod?

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@Smashbard, No votes? And no links for games? :/

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@Xegarus, Could you give your opinion on people on your wagon atm and read's on everyone so far if possible?

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Oh, I was sure her last post was 3 days ago, looks like there are still few more hours to go.

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TheDoc wrote:This game is not about role claiming, it's about figuring out who is town and who is not.

That's true, but you're suppose to do that as a team. Your standpoint on RC at L-1 is selfish. You're dismissing any possibility of you surviving by refusing to help us. Nothing wrong in helping yourself by helping us in this situation imo.
Btw, you haven't really done any ''figuring out'' part either, why not include your reads on everyone in next post and prove me wrong?

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........

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I don't see why scum wont try to kill tbh. This only means that we outwitted them.

@Nacho, Why is em+p_dear your second suspect?

@kitiekatt, I'll appreciate if you can post your reads from D1.

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Vote:Nacho

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But what you're suggesting is basically ''sacrifice our PR'' for something super WIFOM. Which is going to be useless trade.

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Who do you think is scum Dry?

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My vote is on Nacho because in his #62 post he called Em+d town. But she is his 2nd best scum read on D2.
I'm really curious about what exactly changed since all Em+d has posted after that is #126 #216 and #236, which by no means looks scum motivated to me.
Being unless=/=scumtell.

Not to mention both Nacho and Em+d were null read for me when we started D2, which makes it even more suspicious when one of your null reads call other likely scum in very first post of the day.

Call me a paranoid if you will, but his fist post on D2 #243 looked like going for relatively easy apples (although, I agree with his vote on Kitie), if I run number of scenarios in my head with him being scum. Like it or not, we will be screwed if this is true as he is our IC and to hard to read as player for most of us, I just wanted to get more clarity on where his motive stands before it's too late for it by putting vote on him. But looking at how he completely ignored it I'm now even more confused

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@Dry; Short is always beautiful. Why make long ass posts full of WIFOM when you can carry same message in short one liner's. Also, it avoids confusion from my part since English isn't even in my top 3 languages. Sorry if it bothers you :/
Btw, What do you think CF had to achieve by jumping on Doc's wagon? Not to mention; making all those risky moves like pressure voting Bard and refusing to give reason's for his vote on Doc, if he was a scum, what's the point of doing all that when he could have easily shipped on Doc's wagon from get go?

@Smash; That's the thing, I didn't get any reactions making my read of him (Nacho) to lean on either aff. leading to more confusion.

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Nacho wrote

:Em+p seemed townish as far as early game reads go, but then after the game went on and I was able to flip one of my suspects and read other players better, the town read erroded plenty. You can't really dismiss people in this game after you get a townread on them, or else it only takes strong early play and the town is fucked.

True, but my worry was more towards ''why'' Em+p jumped forward for you more then others due to Doc's flip. She wasn't on either wagon, probably didn't even read the thread on D1 considering the difference in magnitude of substance in her posts on D2(today, which is still less and wishy-washy) compared to D1.

Nacho wrote:

What do you mean?

In the beginning of the D2; both you and Em+d were null read for me since I'm not really able to read you properly even though I went trough your scum and town games and she hadn't really posted anything worth looking till that point. You coming out and declaring her your 2nd best scum read on very first post didn't set well with me at that moment. Hence, you looked like scum who was going for easy lynch options from start of the day.
Just to add little to it; I read trough one of your games where ''N'' did your vote/post analysis with both possible alignments in which your town meta seemed to have lot more votes/post then your scum one. Although, I do know that the argument was dismissed later, I'm not really able to shake off the feeling that you might indeed be the scum considering you never moved your vote from Doc on D1.

Nacho wrote

:Then ask me my motive instead of just putting a vote on me. I usually ignore votes without much substance behind them unless I'm feeling a hell of a lot more pressure; putting you into the awkward position of having to deal with me blowing you off gives me a stronger read on you than playing along would.

I did ask that first in my post #247, I only voted when you didn't reply to it.

I find it too convenient that both the scums in this game are in the form of Kittie and Em according to your first post of the day. One of them, maybe, but I really don't see Kittie+Em team functioning. Also, it might not be odd to have D1 mislynch wagon without scum on it, but really, what are the chances of it happening in this game?
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@kitiekatt;

I'll ask you same question I asked Dry when he read CF as scum, so I would appreciate if you can reply to it in your best opinion.

What do you think CF had to achieve by jumping on Doc's wagon? Not to mention; making all those risky moves like pressure voting Bard and refusing to give reason's for his vote on Doc, if he was a scum, what's the point of doing all that when he could have easily shipped on Doc's wagon from get go?

There you go.

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Em+d wrote:

Plus, when I think of the night kill, he's the only one that comes to mind that a protective role would have known the mafia would target and tried to save.

Why do you think that?

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@Mod: VA/LA for 3 days. Going for IV, sorry for inconvenience

Noted.

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(Not dead)

@Om- Everyone hated him that day for the whole page 1 RC and his vote on smash/vote reveal. I'm not quite sure how to word it...I just think that if the mafia kill was blocked there's a good chance a power rule either new or took a chance that Xeg was town. The mafia may also have seen his RC as "Vanilla Townie" as (not just a bad move like the rest of the town) but suspicious. They may have suspected him for a doctor or jailer or whatever trying to be safe as a normal and figure they have nothing to lose if he really was vanilla townie. A rather farfetched theory, but still...

Is that why you tried to kill Xeg last night?
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I am suspicous of nacho because I have a hard time believing that he as town only suspicous d the two weakest players in the game. Also he's buddied almost every player who's been protown. I also still think dyrnify Is scum even with the hammer hes ben way too quiet since day started in contrast to day 1

Then why not vote either of them?

That being said, I will compromisee an emp dear lynch if we approach dead line.

Fence seating?
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@mykonian;

What was the point of your post #308?

@Nacho;

#336
Here, are you saying that you don't mind lynching Dry if KK/Em_d doesn't go well? Or am I missing something?
Also, In one of your games I noticed that you kept your vote on till replacement player for that slot got word in on it, so why did you unvoted here before SK got word in your vote? You did say that next post from KK/SK slot was going to be important in your post #291, we didn't have that yet, so what changed for you?

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Smash wrote:

That's not the case, because I have only said I will compromise on an Emp Dear vote if we near deadline.

I think the chances of Nacho being town are greater than Emp Dear,

so I will vote for the latter if we approach deadline.

Why?
Because as far as I can see from what you've said in your point 1 of the post #363 is lot more then

''player X is passive''

, which isn't strong indicative of alignment either.
Certainly enough to vote Nacho right now, isn't it?
*Pretty pleas*
I hope that was convincing enough ;D

Nobody is going to give you 'strong tells' if you don't vote or ask questions from different angles and you've been really cautious about where you put your vote for my liking. Also, you saying

''player X & Y are suspicious but I wouldn't mind voting for player Z if deadline come''

doesn't help it. Vote>FOS, we are not in LyLo.

Em-p_d wrote:

Or save him. Or make an assumption about what really happened last night.
But why would scum claim the townie they had just tried to kill the night before as innocent? It seems like it would be pointless, right? (Though honestly I am curious do scum actually use this strategy?)

Scum slip's, not strategies. You implying (needlessly) what happened during night when your opinion on other matters is of lesser magnitude looked like one.
PR's simply wont put a target on their back for nights by implying that, so that point is moot.

@Tracey

:

I think Dyrynify is due for a prod.

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Dry wagon is as shitty as Em+p_d one. Anyone not voting Nacho is basically avoiding to vote scummiest person on D2 and I've no idea why..

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Not really, I just wanted to do that for the effect. Dyr is kinda scummy but I think Nacho is a better lynch.

Right now he looks more of a scapegoat though.

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2) I'm voting Dyrnify over Nacho because Nacho was the one who gave me a straight answer as to why Dyrnify would of hammered as scum Day 1 even though he could of just waited for me to hammer. Which was pretty much his only saving grace from me voting for Dyrnify in the first place. Without a valid reason for him to hammer as town, he's pretty much #1 scum to me. I'm not moving from this wagon today.

This made no sense. You showed intent to hammer,

Doc showed no sign of claiming whatsoever,

even though hammer was uncalled for from Dry's slot, it doesn't mean he is scum.

There was no reason

(Yeah, I read Nacho's reasons, but no there is more to it)

for him to hammer unless he was sure in his read of Doc being scum when it was going to happen

anyways. Actually, that was the only thing that gave him town cred over his tunneling anti-town play on Xeg's player slot on D1.

@ Om

- I'm voting Dyr instead of Nacho because I wanted to give Nacho enough time to answer questions and I'm not as sure of him as I am of Dyr. Though it's very weird that he suddenly turned around and voted Dyr. He answered my questions now anyway, and I'll believe the pressuring me for a good read because

I totally felt it.

All I felt was that he saw you weren't happening and moved on to next one.

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I still think Nacho is scum though.

-_-

I really need to work on persuading skills, don't I?

In my mind anyway. Like I said, I'm not moving from this wagon. Even if I'm the last guy on it, I know I've found scum today.

Dunno man, from here it looks like you're a scum. Who is your partner?

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@om: what was ur read of xeg throughout D1? pls narrate.

In case you missed this.

His RC (which is not pro-town but not a scum motivated either, hence a bad reason) and his overall reaction filled with semi admittance of genuine mistake and semi defensive arguments when pointed out why RC is a bad idea is a good town tell for me.
Plus;
He immediately called out our IC, usually scum's are very happy to have laid back IC when they commit mistakes, specially considering the situation he was in and his apparent inexperience, that's town+ tell for me.
#34
This one was good.

I still don't like how he followed CF to jump on Bard, but it's not scum motivated either, no reason for scum to stick their already troubled neck out in the open. To my surprise; it seems to have worked though.
That only further solidifies him as my top town read.

To add to that; his replacement hasn't done anything to change my mind and this time it's for very good reasons (now if he only goes with nacho instead of smash today )

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@Nacho;

Smash completely ignored your post #423
You don't have anything to add on that?
Something isn't going according to plan, is it?

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@Nacho;

Why exactly Bard is town?

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Nacho wrote;

Brad is town for #450.The "I'm going to form my own reads and step this shit up" seemed more like an appeal to himself than to everyone else,

You sure? Because it looks more like an excuse for his scummy play like; following ''more experience'', ''not voting people even after pretending to waste hours to form reads'' (good or bad, I do not like people who don't back them up with votes), till then. With some added AtE flavor.

and the fact that he was like "yeah, I have a gut read on Nacho being town" and reaffirming the Dyr read would just make the myko/CF/etc. group more paranoid and thus more likely to lynch one of us

(which isn't optimal for scumBrad at all)

, but as town, it makes perfect sense.

All of them were already voting him and one of you two is definitely getting lynched today, not due to 'paranoia' though.

@Underlined part; Actually, it is. Look; you're already defending him and his bad parking of the vote just because his guts called you town and Dry scum.

Some of his conflict with myko seems like he has a few problems with tactics he's using in game and that's feeding into his paranoia, but

as scum I feel it would be more likely that he would just ride along on that suspicion to have something genuine to push

.

I'm pretty sure he thought Dry wagon was 'genuine' if I go by his own words;

''following experience players''

and now he can't get off of it since he doesn't really have anything 'genuine' to be on other wagon or you two are scum buddies.
Remind me if I'm wrong, he unvoted you and voted Dry by following your ''why D1 hammer was scummy reasons'' in the same post as he called you/dry/em scum #407
How did that turn into ''my gut read says nacho is town'' in 2 pages? Looks like case of bad guts if not the bad scum

I read word 'paranoia' one too many times in this post, attempt to misrep wagon against you?

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@Nacho wrote;
Yeah, I'm sure. There was an appeal to emotion in there, but scum and town do AtE plenty and I didn't see Smash do anything of that sort last time I played with him.

Links?

If Dyr is scum with Brad, Brad wouldn't follow so quickly after I dropped my reasoning.

He would if you two are scum buddies, any opportunity to shift vote from you to dry would've done him good.

@Nacho wrote;

The 'genuine' push that I'm referring to is the push on myko, which I figured he'd just go for if he was scum.

Wait. What myko push? Explain pleas, I seems to have missed something.

Nacho wrote;

if you felt you were getting pushed for shitty reasons and you saw the other person getting pushed for shitty reasons too, then you'd probably get a town gutread too

If he thought you were getting pushed for shity reasons he wont vote for you in the first place. But he did, he got gut read from 2 pages you haven't posted at all or no one gave any so called new 'shity' reasons he already didn't knew of.

Nacho wrote;

it's a paranoia wagon
"pushing easy targets" is not really a good argument

It is, for one; town push for lynch of the scummy people and scum push for weak/easy ones.

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@om: what was ur read of xeg throughout D1? pls narrate.

What was the point of you asking me that again? You didn't really follow up on it either.
Are you planning to 'narrate' your own reads so far anytime soon? Your predecessor didn't really gave much to look into for my liking, I hope you can put more on table before D2 ends.

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Nacho wrote:

I'm guessing he did a little rereading as opposed to what was originally a sheep. But I see your point.

-_-

Nacho wrote:

Sometimes the easy lynches are the right ones.

Maybe, but the way you've went about them is scummy.

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@Thetrollie;

I personally prefer Nacho lynch over smash today, we are going to have some difficulty to go trough Nacho lynch tomorrow if Brad flips town and one of the stronger towns go down tonight.
Also, I need to read that game Nacho linked, so I'll hold on shifting till then. We still have plenty of time.

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SCUMFUCK TOOK THE SCUMFUCK BAIT
HE DIES TOMORROW
NO QUESTIONS

I take it as you're not scum then, I'm sorry :/

Give your reads on other players with little bit reasons before we have an official mod post.

[Om]

doctors be on me tonight

Why the hell would you do this? Explain pleas.

I'm stating intent to vote/hammer Dry

@Dry and @Smash
Make this interesting.

[Om]

No really, replacing doesn't mean anything. Two people replacing in succession

really

doesn't mean anything. Smash it town and a lot of people recognize it which is great but he needs to shape up and look for real tells, not superstitious paranoia stuff.

other option.

Brad what links Dyr to either of those pairings? How do you feel about the fact that both Emp and Nacho are voting Dyr? What exactly about Nacho's recent posts is different than his early posts, and in which game have you seen town-Nacho doing the same thing?

If Dyr gets hammered and flips town everyone should think long and hard about a Nacho + Brad team.

Obviously not.

b/c after nacho's "trollie's obvtown" i didnt wanna be the nk...

Are you kidding me? He called everyone except Dry and Smash more or less obv. town, if you're not PR and you did this then you've made some bad choice here. I'm not going to go into WIFOM and say what if we really had a Doc and he protected you for this instead of CF? But really, you shouldn't have done that, it's only beneficial to scum. Your whole reaction after Nacho lynch looked bit too forced as well. Are you scum? I'm seriously having second thoughts about you.

[Om]

TheTrollie wrote:

today we r lynching between smash and dyr, most likely...tomorrow we have the other one of them and myko. thats how i see this going.

I've given quick run to CF's ISO and the only 3 people he never pushed for or did mind voting on D2 are Em-p_d, me and Myko. So, I would rather look at you then Myko since he's town for me by Xeg proxy if things came down to it.

I might be bit frustrated about losing CF but the 'forced reaction' point was certainly not invalid.

[Om]

Yeah, but it was one of the 3 I mentioned and looking at what Xeg did on D1, it's likely him then KK slot, which is you.

[Om]

wait wait wait...explain this to me?

who did CF investigate (or who are the possibilities) and what were his reads on them?

In his D2 ISO the only people he didn't mind voting were Nacho, KK, Smash and Dry
People he had town reads on or he minded voting are Em and Me.
By PoE that leaves you and Myko. He had no real read on your slot which was given in thread and Xeg's slot was P1 VT claim. Think, who would he COP, KK or Xeg? So yeah, if it came down to it, you're likely scum then Myko.
Good enough?

[Om]

I'm not going to vote empdear.

You had a better shot with the SKrew vote.

Oh, this simplifies it even more.
So, Em and Myko are my two top town reads. So, yeah :3

[Om]

I agree to that but you're missing what I'm actually saying, the very fact that you couldn't be one of his possible Cop targets (Me, Em or Xeg) means you're likely scum over all three of them by PoE if one of the Dry and Smash flipped town.

[Om]

@Dry, I saw you reading this thread, why are you avoiding to post?

Or are you waiting out to see where wind blows and quick hammer again?

[Om]

I agree to that but you're missing what I'm actually saying, the very fact that you couldn't be one of his possible Cop targets (Me, Em or Xeg) means you're likely scum over all three of them by PoE if one of the Dry and Smash flipped town.

uhhhh...(1) where did Xeg come from in there (2) no, because he only investigated ONE of you, meaning the other two are still just as likely to be scum as I am.

A PoE from my spot keeps you more into gray area then other two since that not guilty result was not on you.
Xeg is there 'cause of his P1 VT claim and if I put myself in Cop shoes, he is likely to be someone I would like to check out for exactly situations like this. And I can't eliminate him since CF never wanted or voted Xeg slot on D2. So, yes, your earlier statement implying that ''tomorrow it will be one of smash or Dry and Myko are the ones we will be looking at'', is not something I'm agreeing on atm.

All this said and done, lets keep this for tomorrow as I'm 99% sure we have both our scums nailed here.

@Dry, I saw you reading this thread, why are you avoiding to post?

Or are you waiting out to see where wind blows and quick hammer again?

Honestly? I decided way back in D1 that I was gonna play this by kicking the hornets nest and seeing what happens. I am just enjoying watching everyone scurry around.

Ok, you seriously need to go down.

Dyrynify

Someone hammer this scum.

Pedit: Wow! smash is certainly making it interesting. Let's see you voting your scumbuddy Smash, are you up for it?

[Om]

1.) Smash is scum. Not sure on anyone else, but he is scum for sure. Pays lip service to my wagon while setting up another lynch target. He will call you and I buddies right up until I flip town. Then he will yell about you lynching me as scum. Either way, he throws you down next.

2.) Already claimed. It has not changed.

You've no reads on anyone else? -.-

[Om]

Because there are two scums not one and if you flip town, your words will be important tomorrow.

[Om]

Thanks for contribution. You're getting lynched today.

[Om]

I agree to that but you're missing what I'm actually saying, the very fact that you couldn't be one of his possible Cop targets (Me, Em or Xeg) means you're likely scum over all three of them by PoE if one of the Dry and Smash flipped town.

uhhhh...(1) where did Xeg come from in there (2) no, because he only investigated ONE of you, meaning the other two are still just as likely to be scum as I am.

A PoE from my spot keeps you more into gray area then other two since that not guilty result was not on you.
Xeg is there 'cause of his P1 VT claim and if I put myself in Cop shoes, he is likely to be someone I would like to check out for exactly situations like this. And I can't eliminate him since CF never wanted or voted Xeg slot on D2. So, yes, your earlier statement implying that ''tomorrow it will be one of smash or Dry and Myko are the ones we will be looking at'', is not something I'm agreeing on atm.

All this said and done, lets keep this for tomorrow as I'm 99% sure we have both our scums nailed here.

@Dry, I saw you reading this thread, why are you avoiding to post?

Or are you waiting out to see where wind blows and quick hammer again?

Honestly? I decided way back in D1 that I was gonna play this by kicking the hornets nest and seeing what happens. I am just enjoying watching everyone scurry around.

Ok, you seriously need to go down.

Dyrynify

Someone hammer this scum.

Pedit: Wow! smash is certainly making it interesting. Let's see you voting your scumbuddy Smash, are you up for it?

Ok, you're next on tonight's ISO's.

1) Your vote is invalid. As it's just a bolded name.

2) You're pushing for someone to hammer Dyrnify, when even if your vote was Valid that would only be 2 votes. And asking me to hammer would only bring him to L-1. You're rushing for this day to be over with, without even doing proper math.

Are you bussing? Are you TheTrollies scumpartner trying to quicklynch Dyrnify for gg?

Those are valid questions by the way.

Given my analysis above I find it VERY hard to believe that you could be town if you just choose to ignore all that evidence of a Trollie/Dyr scumteam just to keep chirping on about how I'm scum just by process of elimination because you've got nothing to go off of.

I know its invalid, I just wanted to see who are the people that jump on it. Trollie is town for still pointing out not to quick-hammer. I'm not stupid enough to get Dry lynch this early before I get Em and Myko to comment on Trollie.
You on the other hand, I can't say the same.

[Om]

I'm not dismissing anything, to prove your case I still need Dry or your flip since Dry is common factor there and you're the one making the case.

@Dry, At last, you're giving some more reads. Thank you.
Why would it be poor if it worked well and we already know that you're not going to anything and Smash will be hammering
It served it's purpose.

[Om]

Who says smash will hammer? He wont. He will talk someone else into doing it for him. He does not want to be the hammer on the 3rd mislynch.

Especially considering the merry hell we all give the people who mislynch, because of me.

You do realize that if scum gets mislynch today, they are actually in with the 100% chance of winning this if they manage to kill someone tonight, right? Scum will hammer if they even see the glimmer of chance to do so. Actually, that's one of the reasons why you're not already lynched since we are trying to avoid that.lol

[Om]

@Smash:

Because Dry has habit of quick hammering, I've feeling that he wont hesitate to quick hammer himself (more so if he is a scum) if you also jump on Dry wagon, which you've shown intent to do so btw.

Any sane person wont want that when we are basically in win or loss position.

[Om]

If you don't answer that question I'm parking my God Damned vote on you until end game or until you answer it.

ur not even voting Om right now.

gotcha,
there you go
lynch dyr today
Smash tomorrow
win games

It's called a threat, hence why I said if he DIDN'T answer my questions I'm parking my vote on him.

Reading is tech.

Which questions are you on about? I only saw once I answered o-o

@Trollie, No, I'm not voting Dry before I get Em and Myko to post.

[Om]

ok, mylo. First things first: doc or JK claims, claims who he protected/blocked day 1.

Second thing, we are going to count stuff. And counting isn't so hard, but lets wait for the claim first. After that we are going to figure out who to lynch.

^ This.

[Om]

So bard, who is Trolli's partner according to you if Dry is town?

[Om]

Yeah. I think she holds the key to this.

[Om]

I believe that there are 2 scums in lot of Dry, you and Trollie with Trollie having least chance of being one depending on what Dry flips.
Also, my vote gambit says Trollie is likely not scum, how he was not conscious enough to see weather my vote was valid or not is town tell. That's more likely to come from town then scum who usually will look for mislynch in this stage and are very very self conscious and exited in win or loss situations. I still need Dry's flip to consider your case on him and all I know is who my town reads are, so yeah, by PoE; you and Dry are up for ride unless something drastic happens.

[Om]

I'll be honest and tell you I suck at reading Om. Will need some help from you dude. Tell me who you are. Just... stuff about yourself you want to tell me. So stuff

like age, hobbies, education

. Whatever you are comfortable telling.

What? O-o
All that I can tell you or think of right now which is actually related to mafia is that this is not my first time playing this game, I've played on some other sites but it was different formats.

I have a few things I'm very skeptical of with Om's play.

I'm pretty sure today's lynch is dyr, but not positive.

I mean, one of the other things we should be doing is see if interactions make things real clear.

Mykonian, I don't blame u for wanting to take a look at me, which you can do, but I personally would really benefit from being able to work with you on this. I am in a rush to pack and get on the road, but a bit later tonight I am gonna go through and do VCAs and ISOs and all those other fun stuffs.

basically, the thing with Om, which Ill show you when i get to it, that I am really hating, is that i thought he was breadcrumbing doctor HARD. like i thought it was painfully obvious that he was PR, and now to learn that he is not, makes me think about all those breadcrumbs a different way. Also, idk maybe you didn't feel the same way, but if you did, then I think we can assume that the mafia would have thought he was Dr., and would have Nked him.

we shall discuss.

Wow I only pointed out the stupid thing you did, not breadcrumb, anyone who was reading the thread should've been able to do that. Quite frankly, you're the 3rd guy I'll be looking at if we fail at Dry and Smash slot by PoE I posted few pages back. Only reason I'm leaning town on you is because of your reaction to my fake vote. Also, it might be too late for that since we have Doc instead of JK.

Pedit:
@Myko, I'm VT.

[Om]

how did you know Xer was shot?

who are you? (age, hobbies, anything you like to tell about yourself. Kind of school you are on, what your favorite subject is. Just tell me who you are)

I didn't knew Xeg was targeted, but I assumed if I was scum I would be going for Nacho, but that wasn't the case so most likely guy would be the one who claimed if he wasn't scum himself, but I had my strongest town read on him so that left me with only possibility of him being targeted.

I'm mechanical engineer and working full time if and my hobby is reading, if that helps -.-

[Om]

If you consider 24 old, sure -.-
pEdit:
He was IC of our game and hardest to read, I was actually convinced he was scum and pushing for him due to him not being dead and thinking he was scum due to that very reason.

[Om]

i might be more comfortable with an om lynch right now than i am a dyr...ill be back in a bit but if someone (mykonian) has time u should take a look at interactions and the wagons yesterday

I would like to get an answer to my question from other day again from you as now we know Em is town Doc.
Were you trying to keep CF slot unprotected and get Doc actions wasted on you when you said ''Doc's be on me''? I asked you this before but you gave dodgy answer by saying Nacho called me town and so yeah...but no that doesn't cut it.

Your case on Nacho was actually repetition of whatever me and other people said in clusters as well. Who else you had scum read on D2 and why?

[Om]

If you consider 24 old, sure -.-
pEdit:
He was IC of our game and hardest to read, I was actually convinced he was scum and pushing for him due to him not being dead and thinking he was scum due to that very reason.

and why exactly would scum consider him then?

I still don't get how you got so sure Xeg was their target. He sure didn't make sense to me to kill. It's a really silly kill, tbh.

I was specific about Xeg to Em since she was the one who actually said he will be target, that only added to my initial hypothesis of Nacho being scum if he wasn't the one targeted and Xeg was the target.
Here is her post;

(Not dead)

@Om- Everyone hated him that day for the whole page 1 RC and his vote on smash/vote reveal. I'm not quite sure how to word it...I just think that if the mafia kill was blocked there's a good chance a power rule either new or took a chance that Xeg was town. The mafia may also have seen his RC as "Vanilla Townie" as (not just a bad move like the rest of the town) but suspicious. They may have suspected him for a doctor or jailer or whatever trying to be safe as a normal and figure they have nothing to lose if he really was vanilla townie. A rather farfetched theory, but still...

Also, Nacho would be the top pick for NK if I was scum, so I thought it was same for others and I kept that as my base while doing NK analysis. I don't know who else it would be if it's not Nacho or Xeg, who were you thinking as likely NK target? o-o

[Om]

Looks like you've made up your mind. :/

Good luck guys, let's hope scum derp tonight and fail to kill someone. It was good learning game for me :3

Vote OM

[Om]

My town read has made up his mind voting me, so obv. scum will do so to, I'll be stuck at L-1 for rest of the day and I see no point in sagging the game more and wasting time tbh

I'll let you have more time if you need to go trough my ISO more though, but I'll be voting myself if needed and nothing has changed.

Unvote

[Om]

Hmm. That so...

Om

, what's your take on this? You said you refused to vote before until hearing from us day 3. Well we're all here, so who are biggest candidates for your vote now?

I've already stated that my scum reads are Dry and Smash.

[Om]

I'm not scum and I'm pretty sure I've already answered anything that was directed at me and no, there is not going to be any defense to something like 'vote Om' or 'he knows he is scum'. So, I don't know what you guys are wasting time anymore.

[Om]

for what*

And if it helps.

Vote smash

I don't like how he complete slipped under the radar with all this Om being the scum thing.

[Om]

vote Om

[Om]

Unvote Vote Dyrynify

[Om]

guys,

Dyr is not going to give us any more content.

I am 100% certain on Om. He slipped, and he couched his vote on both days. He never even undid his RVS.

I am 100% certain.

Just for purpose of replying to this;
1.I already answered why I asked that question to Em, it was one of my 'are you scum' or 'who is your partner' type of things and I was specific about Xeg to her since she herself mentioned Xeg as prime target in her post with hell of lot explanation too. I was looking at the possibility of she being the scum and making scum slip or role fishing, so I was hoping I would get some reactions out of her by asking that.
Not that it matters since her reply to me made it clear that she was the one who protected him, so I didn't pursue that line further.

2.Why would I undoo my RVS when the one I was voting was the scummiest person on D1 and my strongest scum read?

Btw, VCA is a really bad way to form an argument if you don't have one scum already flipped.

[Om]

guys,

Dyr is not going to give us any more content.

I am 100% certain on Om. He slipped, and he couched his vote on both days. He never even undid his RVS.

I am 100% certain.

Just for purpose of replying to this;
1.I already answered why I asked that question to Em, it was one of my 'are you scum' or 'who is your partner' type of things and I was specific about Xeg to her since she herself mentioned Xeg as prime target in her post with hell of lot explanation too. I was looking at the possibility of she being the scum and making scum slip or role fishing, so I was hoping I would get some reactions out of her by asking that.
Not that it matters since her reply to me made it clear that she was the one who protected him, so I didn't pursue that line further.

2.Why would I undoo my RVS when the one I was voting was the scummiest person on D1 and my strongest scum read?

Btw, VCA is a really bad way to form an argument if you don't have one scum already flipped.

what i did was not VCA, it was that u tunnelled ur way all through D1 and D2

Err ra rara. That would be applicable only if the ones I lead wagons on weren't lynched and I never addressed anything else in the thread. Going by 'only' VCA (Your post #667 was one) to tell it was tunneling..

Nvm, we will continue tomorrow as we already have today's lynch.

[Om]

^ Lol

[Om]

It's lot harder to lynch player who seems disinterested and suicidal for newbies. ;D

Good game everyone, I learned quite a lot from you guys ^^

[Om]

@Smash:Regulating post length and number of them is a good idea, being a active lurker, not really. It kills the game :/

[Om]

@Em,

What everyone else said, I was not expecting anyone else aside from Nacho or CF to actually protect Xeg if they had protective roles. You've good insight on the game and could go far if you play with the right lot.

[Om]

@Trollie:

Claiming Doc was my last resort if things went away from Dry since Em had plenty of hints in her ISO that she was PR and I had her down as kill target no matter what after CF for that very reason. CCing her wouldn't have played well for me considering Myko was still around, best option was to stick with the other plan and appear disinterested and weak town or possible weak scum who wouldn't have given as much as satisfaction as lynching fighting scum does. Also, Dry thing was going well as long as I made sure Smash was off the top lynch option for that day. All thanks to Nacho's post-lynch reads I had him gave intentionally and some self destructive anti-town play from Dry himself.

[Om]

@Tracy

-I can't compare with any other game mods (obvi) but I felt you did a good job. You were consistant with vote count posting and helpful but firm. You were so professional though, I had no idea this was your first noob game. Discriptions would be cool in the killings and whatnot, I agree.

@Om

-Wow. Just wow. If there weren't so many experienced players, I'm not sure anyone would have suspected you. Nicely played. Maybe it's a bit odd to ask since we're both beginners, so I'll ask Smash, too. How do you play as mafia without drawing enough attention to yourself to get lynched? I know I'd have been in trouble if I was mafia I wouldn't know what lies to tell ^^;

I'm not really a beginner, I've played on other sites in different formats and 2-3 of this format a year back. How to play as scum is not something anyone can describe, but I think Tracey did it well by saying something along the line.. ''forget that you're scum and play''.

[Om]

Btw, it's Tracey with an 'e'.
I'm looking forward to Tracey flipping after seeing that