Newbie 1310: A WILD CHARIZARD APPEARED! - GAME OVER

[CF Riot]

Sup, losers.

Vote: TheDoc

If it's not entirely clear yet, claiming vanilla while not under pressure is a bad idea. You can say, "but scum don't know if I'm telling the truth" but really that doesn't mean anything. Most of the time that claim is going to help scum more than town (because hello, helps town none) so don't do it. Bad Xeg. You're in timeout.

[CF Riot]

You always lynch on D1. You lynch on most days. The reason is lynching is how scum dies. If you don't lynch, scum don't die. Love your lynch.

Nacho, post you barnacle.

[CF Riot]

Also, get avatars you noobs. It's easier to associate a picture with a set of information than a name.

[CF Riot]

Everything can mean something or nothing. Mafia is about context and motivation. A saying you'll find quite common around here, "There are no objective scumtells."

[CF Riot]

Trust me, I am watching you very closely for that very reason. As soon as I find enough scummy behavior, I will really begin pushing for your lynch. Right now, there is simply not enough there to justify it. You are not scummy enough to lynch yet.

I do not have a townread on Dyr. I also do not think Xeg's RC was a big deal.

[CF Riot]

This argument was settled on page 2 and this discussion isn't helping find scum at all.

Smashbard

Post something relevant.

[CF Riot]

whoops

Vote: Smashbard

[CF Riot]

It doesn't matter just vote Smash.

[CF Riot]

@Xeg: Seriously. Just vote him.

@Dyr: Wasn't talking to you.

@Smashbard: You goose, it doesn't matter. He claimed, we told him doing that is bad, it's over. It doesn't matter if he's realized we're right or not, the point is this is all theory talk and none of it has anything to do with who is scum. I'm not sweeping an important topic under the rug, this is not an important topic. Lynching you isn't shutting down discussion, it's shutting down noise which has no baring on the game.

pedit: All night actions go through during night, usually according to this thing we have called Natural Action Resolution which you can look up on the wiki. You can't "do" one night action then "do" the other on the same night. The mafia would just submit a cop and a kill then when night was over they'd see the results of both.

[CF Riot]

I don't policy lynch anyone ever. Policy lynches are mostly dumb, imo.

So, Dyr, tell me; Why are you trying to call my post an order?

[CF Riot]

I think the reason Bard continues to post noise is because he's scum looking for something safe to talk about. Why did you think he was scummy?

[CF Riot]

@Dyr: You're the best scumhunter ever. I'm shaking in my booties now.

@Bard: Shad go having, how am I budding Xeg?

@Katt: What are you talking about? Bandwagons on scum rule.

Just for the record, I have seen many a town withhold giving reasons for whatever action in a game before, including votes.

[CF Riot]

Oh yeah, and Idk why Bard is calling this a policy lynch as I've explained my thought process and explicitly said that it is not.

[CF Riot]

Well, that's not always the intent. I don't feel super comfortable discussing the issue because I assume Xeg is doing it for a reason but I don't really know what he's trying to achieve and this may throw a wrench in it.

[CF Riot]

Just for the record, I have seen many a town withhold giving reasons for whatever action in a game before, including votes.

Why does seeing it before make it a good thing to do?

I didn't say it was a good thing to do, I said I've seen town do it.

pedit: Enlighten me, what could he possibly be doing other then scum hunting?

I didn't say he wasn't scum hunting either.

And quite frankly, you are looking scummy right now too. I dislike you jumping in to defend objectively stupid plays. There does not seem to be much point to it, unless you have some reason to want him alive.

Stupid play doesn't always mean scum play. Especially in a newbie game. If you're town you can check your posts for reference. That's still remains to be seen in my book though. So tl;dr, the point is I've seen enough town do what Xeg's doing to know it's not a scumtell. At least not for certain, like you and Smash are saying.


@Bard: It's still not a policy lynch. You can keep calling it that if you think it will keep people from voting you but it's not. Also ya know that story at the bottom of your post, about Xeg's grand scheme to play me for a chump and how you see through it but I can't cause I'm blinded by my giant ego? Yeah, that was cute.

[CF Riot]

=) I'm not sure you understand exactly what "policy lynch" means. I know you're not the only one who was discussing that topic, but here's the thing. You were dragging it out more than others plus your first post with the whole RQS thing was another example of non-scumhunting posting from you. Looking at your iso, posts 22, 26, 27, 56, and 91 are all spent talking about what is good or bad play but none of them have anything to do with finding scum. Noise noise noise. So yeah, other people posted noise too, but

the ratio

of your noise posts to scumhunting posts is worse. Specifically in regards to Xeg, it looks like you're trying to make a bigger deal out of the issue than it was and avoiding doing much else. Check this out too. Originally in post 66 you say you townread Xeg but then look at post 92.

EBWOP: In case I wasn't clear about this, if that post doesn't convince you that claiming was a bad move, I'm moving my vote to you and advocating your lynch, Xegar. Because now you've become a liability, and I would rather risk mislynching by voting you than allowing you to stay alive when keeping you around means the chances of me dying in the night are increased.

You want to talk about policy lynches? THAT is what a policy lynch is. You literally say he may be town but you'd lynch him anyways because he's a liability. I'm saying you're scum posting scummily for scummy reasons. That's the difference between a policy lynch (you) and a super awesome scum lynch (me).

[CF Riot]

Bard you crack me up. You seriously don't understand how policy lynches work though. And you didn't refute my case, you just said "they did it too" like that means anything and now I've explained the difference between you and everybody else so you can't even use that anymore.

[CF Riot]

I'm pediting from another post but I'm glad Nacho is back. Stick around holmes, I want some of your reads. They may be in your post, I haven't read it yet.

[CF Riot]

Where is our IC when you need one?

True dat. (Never mind. :D)

So tl;dr, the point is I've seen enough town do what Xeg's doing to know it's not a scumtell. At least not for certain, like you and Smash are saying.

...and? I have seen scum do towny things. Does that mean they were not scum? No. Just because plenty of town do those things does not mean scum don't do them too.

You don't know how to play this game, do you?

Oh, and before you jump on me again, if you want my vote removed, it is your job to convince me that it needs to be removed. Your little, "I saw this before, it is not scummy." does not cut the mustard on that point.

What exactly would cut the mustard then? Cause see in this weird world I live in, explaining that all the reasons you're voting someone are things town often do is usually how it works. If you're sticking to him being scummy for things I've straight up told you town do all the time, then the burden of proof is on you. Explain to me why these actions are scummy in this game. To me it just looks like you're having a knee jerk reaction to vote someone who's doing things you don't understand.

I didn't say he wasn't scum hunting either.

How the hell do you know? And why, when you are jumping all over everyone else, do you ignore, and defend, a player who completely blew off your question? WHY ARE YOU SUCH A BUDDY WITH XEG? What benefit are you deriving from defending all his actions?

I didn't know, but I kind of figured. Probably cause I've played this game before. I don't think I'm jumping on "everyone" else. Despite what some of you seemed to think, I know players usually don't just get to ride till the end of the day with, "I have a reason but I'll tell you later." Later eventually comes, so it didn't bother me that he didn't answer right away. That was a towntell, imo. It shows he isn't afraid to tell people "no." Scum are appeasing because they want to be on everyone's good side. And he's right on the pressure thing, you're not. Pressure works better if you don't explicitly tell the person you're pressuring that's what you're doing. As for you trying to scare me with lynch threats, /shrug. Come at me, bro.

Xeg, what's your read of Smash now that the cats out of the bag?

[CF Riot]

I know, it's scary. It's a newbie game and I have a compulsion to explain to people exactly why they're wrong about stuff.

[CF Riot]

If they're all on the same page, you can click that little Q+ box next to the quote button of all the posts you want quoted, then hit reply at the bottom of the page to put them all in the reply. Otherwise you just have to open multiple tabs or pages, hit quote, copy all the text, then paste each quote into the reply box you intend to use.

Would like to know how Smash feels about Xeg revealing his motivation behind his vote.

[CF Riot]

I'm totally calling him Brad for the rest of the game now.

[CF Riot]

Who's CD? Is that me?

Tracey you still have Senjai's name on the votecount where I should be.

~Thanks. All vote counts since you replaced in are now fixed.

(How do I keep missing this stuff?!)

[CF Riot]

^lol

[CF Riot]

Scum
Town: 1 2 3

The scum game is kind of weak cause my partner flaked beginning of D2, then some other players did too and the game pretty much just fell apart. The next most recent scum game I had before that is over 2 years old I think. Multiple town games cause some of them have weird setups and others I replaced in so idk how that will affect your read.

[CF Riot]

unvote: vote The Doc

Time to pile drive this into the ground.

[CF Riot]

Xeg re: post 172, I can see you interpreting those posts that way. They are kind of ick. But tbh I don't really feel like Brad is that scummy. He responded pretty well to both of us voting him, even if that was sort of alleviated by the fact that a lot of people threw the spotlight back on you right after. Plus he's unvoting now which is a point in his favor I think.

[CF Riot]

I will never RC, at any time, in any game.

Doc wants you to drop the hammer. Give 'em what he wants.

[CF Riot]

Nah.

You can explain why you think I'm town though.

[CF Riot]

He doesn't really mean any of that, it's just pretense to suspect Xeg.

[CF Riot]

Dyr was so not protown yesterday and I have a hard-on for that wagon cause he's fishing so hard today but the one thing holding me back is the hammer. Assume town Brad announcing intent to hammer, does scum Dyr throw it down first or would he just stay off the mislynch and let Brad finish it off? I don't know him at all but purely from this being a newbie game I don't see him having the foresight to try to gain towncred by being

on

a mislynch wagon.

[CF Riot]

@CF, what was the reasoning for just not explaining yourself? Was this a quiet pressure thing like what Xegar was trying to do?

I figured Doc was scum and I don't feel the need to explain myself to scum.

[CF Riot]

I don't know who I want to vote today. Someone win me over.

[CF Riot]

But it wasn't in caps.

[CF Riot]

I currently have no idea what questions I'm supposed to be answering for you. I'm assuming you asked me questions because you were suspicious of me though. So what about me made you suspicious before "ignoring" your questions?

[CF Riot]

@CF: Under this logic, you would never ever explain your vote, assuming you're voting for people you think are scum (which you would be). Is this really what you are saying?

Surely you don't just mean this. I feel like this question is nonsense but I'll humor you. If I think someone is behaving scummy, depending on the situation sometimes I bring up what exactly I find scummy about them then advocate others to vote them. Other times, I will simply announce they're a scumread and vote without stating reasons. There are lots of reasons for this, a few being I believe the reasons to be obvious or I want to see how others react to the vote and find out if they understand what is scummy about the person without me spelling it out.

If I do happen to withhold my reason for a vote and then the scum target asks me about it, I feel no obligation to explain it to them because I don't need to convince scum they're scummy. They'll never vote themselves. However if another player asks and I feel they're town, then depending on the circumstances I'll explain my read to that person to try and gain their support on the wagon.

Doc was going down in flames and I knew it, so I didn't think it was necessary to post my read. It was more valuable to me to see who else wanted on without convincing and what reason they would give for doing it.

[CF Riot]

Myko, who are you replacing? I thought you were Xeg. Also, if I read right, you claimed you were town

before

you got your role pm which makes sense but is still quite funny.

[CF Riot]

replacing out is not

necessarily

an indicator of scumminess

You should've stopped here.

[CF Riot]

No really, replacing doesn't mean anything. Two people replacing in succession

really

doesn't mean anything. Smash it town and a lot of people recognize it which is great but he needs to shape up and look for real tells, not superstitious paranoia stuff.

[CF Riot]

Idk, it's a gutread I guess. I thought he handled Xeg and I voting him pretty well. He didn't back off his position but looked suspicious of the push. Plus he seemed to really reconsider his reads of Xeg and Dyr when I explained things which contradicted them being scum.

[CF Riot]

The hammer, which isn't concrete at all, and cause Nacho said he had a town read. Dyr has been ringing my scum bells all game long and continues to. I'm giving him noob cred and trying to think outside the box.

[CF Riot]

lol, "noob game".

[CF Riot]

Speculate as to why I'm not voting.

[CF Riot]

I'm not going to vote empdear. You had a better shot with the SKrew vote.

[CF Riot]

I don't entirely trust you right now, and other people are murmuring about voting Emp as well without actually doing it. I smell mislynch.

[CF Riot]

My nose is the best thing. Is that not enough? I didn't know Emp was that strong of a read for you.

[CF Riot]

I've sort of been sitting on my hands waiting for SKrew to post but the two people I'm most leaning towards voting today are SKrew and Nacho. I think Om looks alright. I wish he would post more and push harder but that's cause I like where his heads at. I'll vote cause the game is bogging down but holidays are over and now's the time to rally and lynch scum.

Vote: Nacho

[CF Riot]

Everything you said was true. Katt was lurky and non-committal. This could be because she was scum or because she was a noob and it was D1.

[CF Riot]

Code: Select all

[quote="username"]text[/quote]

text

Code: Select all

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4538173#p4538173]post 0[/url], TraceyLyn11"]WELCOME TO NEWBIE 1310:[/quote]

WELCOME TO NEWBIE 1310:

[CF Riot]

Majiffy is not in this game. Nacho was that just a typo or was it supposed to be a reference of some kind, cause it went over my head if so.

[CF Riot]

Also, it'd be cool if SKrew posted soon. V/LA's are fine and all but yeah, I'd like his participation.

[CF Riot]

Dry wagon is as shitty as Em+p_d one. Anyone not voting Nacho is basically avoiding to vote scummiest person on D2 and I've no idea why..

[CF Riot]

Not really, I just wanted to do that for the effect. Dyr is kinda scummy but I think Nacho is a better lynch.

[CF Riot]

Brad what links Dyr to either of those pairings? How do you feel about the fact that both Emp and Nacho are voting Dyr? What exactly about Nacho's recent posts is different than his early posts, and in which game have you seen town-Nacho doing the same thing?

If Dyr gets hammered and flips town everyone should think long and hard about a Nacho + Brad team.

[CF Riot]

I am looking. Why aren't you voting Nacho with the obvtown wagon of me and Om, instead of the empty wagon on possibly bad-town Brad?

[CF Riot]

Eh, Idk. I don't see any standout partners for Dyr-scum so I'd probably base my suspicion on individual scumminess, which means you'd still be a top pick but not in the same way I'd be pointing at you or Brad if either of you flipped scum.

[CF Riot]

My scum suspects at the moment are Dyrnify & Nacho or Dyrnify & Emp Dear. So either way the common denominator vote goes to Dyrnify.

Brad what links Dyr to either of those pairings?

There's no link as far as I can see. This is mostly down to the fact that I believe you, Om and Mykonian are town. Sleepykrew isn't posting enough for me to have a solid read. That leaves some combination of those three.

This new bottom quote doesn't look like what you were saying in that top quote. In the top you don't say "some combination of these three," you say "Dyr and ____". If it's just a matter of them all being scummy, why don't you mention the possibility of a Nacho+Emp team, ala...

Well if Dyrnify flips town then I would be very suspicious of both of them being the scumteam.

And you're saying you don't have a solid read on SKrew (

prod prod prod please ty

) but I would think then you would be open to the idea of a SKrew being part of a team with one of these 3, which would mean Dyr isn't a solid common denominator.

In this game he's been posting a lot more frequently than 3 days, but not been as diligent in his scumhunting. His entire day 2 focus has been on Emp Dear until just recently. I think he was starting to realize that his playing it safe by picking on the newbie all day was gaining a crap ton of suspicion from everyone, and as soon as his wagon got more than just you and Om voting for him he started shaping up his play and actually answering questions.

So his play is MORE like what I'm used to from him right now, but I still feel uneasy about him because of the fact that it took 3 votes just to get him in gear when he realized he couldn't play it safe with Emp Dear anymore.

All this sounds like a reason to vote Nacho to me, and instead you're using it as a reason to unvote him and vote Dyr, while still saying they could be scum together.

[CF Riot]

Yeah, I do.

Vote: Smashbard

[CF Riot]

I still think Nacho is scum though.

[CF Riot]

That was fast.

People love me. What can I say?

[CF Riot]

Empdear, thoughts on Nacho and Brad?

[CF Riot]

No. Xeg/Myko claimed VT on page 2 or something which I'm sure you saw, Doc was VT and Dyry claimed VT at L-2 that he claims he thought was L-1.

[CF Riot]

Brad, you do not know what buddying is. Buddying is a term for when a scumslot "buddies up" to a townslot, either by calling them town or by agreeing with their opinions, in order to gain favor with said townie. Buddying does not mean treating your scumbuddy as town.

Refusing to compromise with your vote is anti-town play when there's more than 1 scum in the game, baring obvious things like PR-investigations and such.

[CF Riot]

also, I'm worried that scum-nacho will be harder to lynch because of his IC status after either of us die. maybe thats wrong though

That's already happening I think. I would be quite pleased with either lynch.

Dyry post better. Nacho is scum because his suspects are easy lynches, he's not pushing them nearly hard enough to be town-Nacho, and he's keeping scummy company on wagons and it's not bothering him at all. Why do you think he's town? Who are you going to vote for today, because the Emp wagon is no longer relevant?

[CF Riot]

actually would like myko and cf to get their votes off smash now
if you're gonna pretend the case is stronger on me then it is because of your paranoia, then vote me now
watch dyr not push the emp wagon at all and get stuck into making another scumfuck hammer
watch trollie not explain his vote on me at all
not even a little bit
then let them die

I don't understand your problem with Brad votes, and this is the first time I've seen you mention Dyr's hammer being scummy.

Unvote, Vote: Dyrnify

Dyr, on the other hand, has really fallen off since Day 1, which I find pretty fucking suspicious. I thought that if he was scum, he had a pretty good day 1, but today he's not really pushing anyone and only voting emp when it's based on his survival. Also found smash's vote on me pretty interesting and would like for him to confirm that he is voting me using Om's and CF's logic.

This is where you vote Dyr, the main reason being he's fallen off since D1. You're now saying you've sort of "fallen off" today too. I don't see any mention of the hammer, rather you say his D1 was pretty good.

you had one vote, but more people were talking about you as scum
why do you suspect emp? what did you think of her latest posts?
what do you think of smash?

No follow up.

If you're so convinced that I've been scum since Post #1 RQS, why isn't your vote on me? For someone so convinced you sure are struggling to find the gumption to vote me. Are you waiting to hear support from the other players first before you try and proceed with a lynch? Seems like you're not willing to take the leap on my wagon if it's not already backed by popular opinion first. You wouldn't need that if you weren't worried about drawing suspicion to yourself.

Soo any suspicions on anyone but me? Or is this a classic case of tunneling 101?

Ping.
Myko has been talking about different suspects, has been voting different suspects. Him not having the balls to vote you is an odd point, and it seems like you're trying to play a "vote me, I dare you" game which isn't a game townies play.

This looks like suspicion of Brad, but I don't see you doing anything about it.

In my first newbie game (I was scum at the time), Nacho was a lot more aggressive in his reads and pushing of lynches, while at the same time questioning almost every player. He only posted once every three days, which apparently was a meta thing. But when he did post he would always question even the guys he thought were solid town reads, like Camn.

You didn't think my push on the doctor was aggressive? You didn't think my push on kitiekatt was aggressive? You didn't think my push on Emp was aggressive? You'll also notice that no, I didn't focus on every player early game. I focused predominately on my scumreads early game, and focused on more players when we approached MyLo. I didn't really question camn until glass flipped town, or chrimmy jailed her and nothing went through, or some shit like that.

His entire day 2 focus has been on Emp Dear until just recently.

Except for that kitiekatt push, which actually took up more time than the emp push.

I think he was starting to realize that his playing it safe by picking on the newbie all day was gaining a crap ton of suspicion from everyone, and as soon as his wagon got more than just you and Om voting for him he started shaping up his play and actually answering questions.

Why would you call emp town?

I'm not considering Skrew as scum just yet because he hasn't posted anything that would lead me to believe he is scummy. He hasn't posted much at all. So he's pretty much the definition of a null read, so in order to suspect him as scum I would only be doing so for policy reasons. I try to avoid that because I've had too many bad experiences of policy lynching newbies and flipping wrong on them.

So it's more like you're policy ignoring him and not factoring him into any of your possibilities for scumteams at all? Still doesn't exactly make sense.

This looks like suspicion of Brad, but I don't see you doing anything about it.

[CF Riot]

Posting from cell.

sports man ship

Keep phoneposting Brad. It's awesome.

[CF Riot]

I believe Brad is town. If he is lynched first, it's likely that you and Om's paranoia will fuck up LyLo. If I am lynched first, I'm pretty sure my gigantic frowning ghost hanging over your heads will be enough for Brad to survive in LyLo.

I'd probably still want to lynch Brad if you flipped town. That said, if both of you are town then yeah, we might be screwed cause I'm so ready for you both to swing and your appeal to fear doesn't sway me in the slightest.

[CF Riot]

Cause if youre town please, lynch me today.

I'm trying.

[CF Riot]

vote: Nacho

[CF Riot]

Even thought I basically threw the game, I still feel proud for picking the scum.

Don't.

gg scum. Should've lynched Brad instead of Nacho.

[CF Riot]

In case anyone wasn't sure, one big thing to take from this game is

don't

claim if you're not under pressure, and

do

claim if you're about to be lynched. We weren't lying about that.

[CF Riot]

My advice to you Emp is speak up. You were pretty quiet this game. That being said, as a PR it is a good idea to not draw too much attention to yourself so if that's what you were going for then well done.

[CF Riot]

It sounds sort of... Idk harsh? egotistical maybe? but one of the best pieces of advice I can give new players is if there are 3-4 players in a game that are all yelling at you about the same thing, they're probably right and you should listen. Now you have to use common sense of course, cause it's mafia and people lie and yada yada, but generally if you're doing something as a newbie and several veterans all tell you that's stupid because <x, y, z> then they might just know what they're talking about and you should just take their advice. If you don't fully understand where they're coming from then you could ask after the game or maybe look for a different thread onsite that explains it, but if you turn it into a big argument during the game you hurt the town and yourself by 1) causing a big distraction from real scum hunting, 2) (possibly) making yourself look scummy by supporting sub-optimal play and 3) making yourself look foolish by being hard headed instead of accepting that there may be practices around here that happen for a reason which you aren't fully aware of yet.

Now given, this is totally noob advice to be used by noobs when clearly there are multiple people who are telling you you're wrong. Once you've been here a while and you feel like bucking the system, you're more than welcome to stick by an action and challenge peoples' opinions on whether or not it's a good play. The "best playstyle" around here is always up for debate and constantly changing, so don't feel like you have an exact set of rules you have to follow in games. Just be aware that many games have been played here before you, and in that time we've figured a couple things out.