The Wire, Season 1 - Final Credits!
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- DeasVail
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↑ ChannelDelibird wrote:Petapan's vote drew my attention to absta's #8, which is more likely to be a scum post than a detached vote for nobody in particular.
Really?- DeasVail
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Eh, I'll go for it.
Vote: McStab
Him talking about lynching Nost and talking about who is scum if Nost flips scum is pretty premature. It's really early in the game, and I don't believe that he can be very certain of a Nost scumread from his posts so far. So, it feels more like scum trying to make their scumread sound more genuine, but well, not really succeeding at it.
PEdit: I'll expand on townreads if people feel that it would help with their read on the player in question. Or even if someone just really feels that my explanation for a townread would be the key to determining my alignment. I realise that I haven't said who I townread yet though.- DeasVail
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I'm not saying he's definite scum or anything, but I haven't really found much else to push on and this seems like a decent thing to me. I'd ask you for suggestions but you're voting for me, so...
Also, not particularly fond of much that's been brought up yet, although I might be later. I don't know.- DeasVail
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You all get to have pretty colours!
Note that some of the townreads are really weak.
Town
Cerulean
Benmage
Camn
Ser Arthur Dayne
TML
Shadoweh
Nostredeus
ChannelDelibird
TBD
Plessiezarus-I'm not sure I really get the hate on them. I actually like the first post, but they could easily be scum so far.
Sottyrulez
TheGreatestAmericanHero
Absta-A lot of 134 is really unnecessary though.
SafetyDance
Vifam
Petapan
Baby Spice
Maybe Scum
JasonT1981-I found myself kind of agreeing to things people said about him. Also reading through, I don't like his long post where he quotes and comments on things that aren't even that important. Also, his question to Vifam in 202 is pretty bad. It's a pretty weak read though and I don't think I've ever played with Jason-town.
McStab-Yeah yeah whatever, but I stand by what I said. I'm not saying you have to sheep me (yet).
~~
Plessiez, why has Zar had time to give you his opinions on a number of things, but not to post?
Benmage, why did you give away that you don't like early cutesy behaviour at the time when you'd most expect it from scum?
Unvote: McStab
Vote: JasonT1981- DeasVail
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The only thing I could say about Plessiezarus that's possibly scummy is he could be trying too hard to be chatty. This is not valid if he's always like that though.
SAD, regarding 268 why is it so hilarious that people townread you? If youaretown, wouldn't you just assume that you've acted in a way/said something that you only did because you are town, and that's how people are townreading you?
267: I think it's scummy that McStab doesn't comment on the Nostredeus townreads/seems uninterested in the reasoning behind them. The whole scumteam thing is townish though and I'm not sure about the setup spec.
Regarding the townreads, I'm just reading through and not going back over posts, so you're just getting quick explanations. (Also they are in no particular order, and I felt the need to say that some were weak because well they are)
Camn- Hasn't played mafia (to my knowledge) in a while. Feels more genuine and natural than I'd expect from her as scum.
SAD- There's less motivation for mafia to roleplay and keep it up, although the townread is much weakened by 268.
TML- His reminder to himself to meta someone felt like something town would do. Other than that, gut.
Shadoweh- Feels like town. There was probably something specific, but I've forgotten. I'll go into further detail if someone asks or if she's in danger of lynch.
Nostredeus- Bringing up the nameclaim thing in the first place was pretty townish. His responses to things have felt like town too.
CDB- Part of this is made easier by the fact that last time I saw him as scum he basically powerlurked, but his arguments seem like genuine scumhunting to me, and when he says things like 'DeasVail looks like scum', there is a lack of effort to look town there, and it's more likely someone just saying thoughts as they come to them--> more likely town.
Ok, I probably will expand on them later, but running out of time now, so I'll finish reading.
Eh, I'm not really finished the last page, but I have to go so more later. Also SafetyDance my end up being a scumread.- DeasVail
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↑ Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:If you're gonna put me as town, it better be for a damn good reason.
See this attitude is something I find much more likely from scum trying to be cool and all than town.- DeasVail
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↑ Cerulean wrote:I don't know dude, I thought Safety's first two posts were really bad but I just read his recent posting and I'm getting the same vibes I got from Nostedeus - basically, that he's just incompetent and not really scummy. I don't think him trying to push a policy-type lynch on Arthur and justifying it is really that bad given his inexperience and how much negative attention he drew from it earlier. Plus, I thought the way he lashed out at TML in #304 with the whole "don't pigeonhole me" type stuff was pretty genuine and townish. I haven't talked to Tammy about him yet though (I think she might still be scumreading him?) and I do agree that he does need to involve himself a little more in scumhunting than self-defense at this stage.
P.S.: Answer this pls (though change the Vifam question to "Why do you think Vifam might be scum?")
But is he pushing a policy lynch, or is it just a pressure vote, different posts seem to indicate one or the other, and this makes it seem more like scum scrambling to explain their vote under pressure than town who would obviously have a reason for voting for him.
Also, I'm not a fan of McStab either.- DeasVail
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Regarding SafetyDance:
I didn't think his vote for SAD originally was that big a deal, but after failing to achieve the intended goal (I think?) of getting SAD to stop roleplaying, and getting negative attention for his vote, he doesn't unvote for the longest time. The pressure vote has become useless, everyone's telling you to stop. Why not just move on if he doesn't actually want to lynch him? Because he's scum that doesn't want to be seen as backtracking under pressure? Possibly.
There's also the fact that there was content beneath SAD's roleplaying, and the first reasonably sized paragraph in 304 talks about SAD being a problem in later days, which I really feel is just scum trying too hard to justify their vote, and the whole thing about it being brought up as a 'reason' later I don't really understand. I think this would only be a problem from the PoV of scum? However, I'm not sure I understand completely.
As I'm typing this though, I'm getting the niggling feeling that I'm actually attacking a town player, and in the same post you have the following two quotes:
↑ SafetyDance wrote:Oh, and whoever it was that claimed its scummy because of jumping on someone who already had a vote? Damn, you're going to have you work cut out with all that scummy play every time someone gets more than two votes.
[...]
I value observing and reading as much as I do typing. In a large game, with a lot of unfamiliar names, with limited time at the moment, with egos walling each other, yeah I'm not going to bring up anything unless it really sticks out.
And I'm not sure whether such an obvious inconsistency would even come from scum.
So if anyone thinks they have a good reason for SafetyDance being town, I'd like to hear it.
~~
Now, onto McStab:
His Nostredeus opinion is unpopular enough that I think he'd at least want to consider the townreads on him and put more effort into working his alignment out, but there is really no attempt shown in his ISO and his Nostredeus read just feels as if it's always going to be there no matter what. So, basically, I don't think it's town scumhunting. I think this is from scum.
There would be the possibility of him being so sure of his read that he chooses as town not to pay much attention to conflicting opinions or future Nostredeus posts (and to be fair this is backed up by the desire to lynch that I thought was overeager), but he's not voting for Nostredeus (and I may be generalising here, but I think the kind of player that's willing to compromise would be the kind of player to also reconsider their reads and compromising probably doesn't indicate a great deal of confidence in the first place) and there's also no real appeal at all to the town to read Nostredeus as scum.
As I'm typing this I'm feeling better about McStab than SafetyDance, so:
Unvote: SafetyDance
Vote: McStab
~~
American Hero: Why do you think sotty would defend their buddy Jason so hard?
BT: Why hasn't sotty's confidence in Jason town affected your read of him?- DeasVail
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SD, your post doesn't really address why you didn't unvote, which is really the main problem.
Also, CDB, the inconsistency was that he makes an insignificant comment about a player he doesn't know the name of, and then later in the post says he'll only bring something up if it really sticks out, as he doesn't want to wall or whatever. This attitude does not really fit with the comment I mentioned, but I don't think this inconsistency is particularly scummy. Maybe it's something scum would be more likely to avoid. I'm not really sure.- DeasVail
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Sotty, I don't really understand your problem unless you didn't read my post.
Benmage, what's your explanation for SD not unvoting? I am not making any assumptions, just considering possibilities.
I'm also not sure what you expect me to do after asking the questions.
I don't understand why SD is saying what he is in response to my in 543. I don't think I said anything about stubbornness or defending himself? Also why is he insisting there's no inconsistency? He makes a comment on someone who he doesn't even bother to work out the name of and then says later that he'll only say stuff that really sticks out. It couldn't have been that important if he didn't even bother to check the name of the person in question.
And the attack on lists? Um ok, you're really really really town for that? I get it? (I think that's less likely to be a natural development from town considering the effort involved in getting the quotes and more like scum wanting to do something town and deciding on it)
The lists are mostly for my own organisation anyway and people can ask about reads if they want, so I don't even get the problem.- DeasVail
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If Zar likes being scum though (and hasn't been scum/played in a while) wouldn't he be more eager about things?
My thoughts on Pless are pretty limited right now. It's basically that Pless is possibly trying too hard to be chatty. Sometimes his posts take on a kind of conversational(?) style that I think could be fake. Other than that... I nothing much either way, but I don't find them particularly scummy for now.- DeasVail
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Shadoweh, what do you think of ActionDan?
Zdenek has been pretty meh since replacing in. I don't think he's been particularly scummy, but I could pretty easily see him as scum still, so not much has really changed there.
ActionDan I can see the reasoning for, but I'm not that convinced yet. He's someone I could lean either way on.
I can't really read Absta. When Absta is town I think he's scum. When Absta is scum, I think he's scum for half the game, then think he's town. I don't know what to do there, sorry. He's scummy here to me, but I have no idea what that means.
TGAH can be a scumread too.
I feel I haven't really been very involved or proactive in getting my reads sorted this game and I apologise for that. Over the next few days, I'll put more effort into reading people, but my reads as they stand are pretty likely close to what they'll actually end up being.- DeasVail
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I don't know, it's complicated for me.
So far, my reads are based on what other people have said as well as what I consider to be my own shallow interpretation of posts. I want to be able to consider people's posts more closely and look at motivations more deeply than I have, but I think most of my reads will be similar. It's probably more about increasing confidence in my reads, but there could be the odd one that changes when I consider something I hadn't previously.- DeasVail
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Zdenek, the part about McStab being too sure of Nost-scum is a very small part of my read and was mostly only something to start off with before getting a better read later. I will say everything I think of McStab.
First there is the thing you mentioned. His attack on Nost is really weak in my opinion, and I have a hard time believing that anyone would think it was really strong reasoning. However, from this he seems eager to lynch Nostredeus and suggest lynches if Nost is scum (which he knows won't happen because Nost is town, at least I think so).
Next, there is the fact that he doesn't seem at all interested in changing/improving his Nostredeus read. He appears to pay no attention to the many people calling his suspicion of Nostredeus bad and townreading Nostredeus. Nothing in his posts is evident of reading Nostredeus' posts and actually trying to make sure his previous scumread is correct.
The above is all slightly scummy to me, but is also consistent with town who are sure of their reads and don't back down. So, him changing his vote from Nostredeus to SafetyDance for the more viable wagon instead of making much attempt to gather more Nostredeus supporters (there's no sign that he even wants them) and it's not near deadline at that point either, so this is inconsistent with his earlier 'certainty' that Nostredeus is scum and his lack of concern for the townreads.
I found myself agreeing with what others said regarding McStab. Nothing else I considered really strong, but they were little things that contribute to the read.
Also, I'm explaining this read the most, because he's currently the one I want lynched. There is no real need to explain the others so much.
Oh, I almost forgot to say, but the TGAH read was mostly based on Plessie's post about him with my own not very positive impression of him contributing slightly.
~~
Regarding wagons:
I don't want to lynch Jason for now because of Sotty's townread.
Zdenek is my preferred at the moment.
I would also consider TGAH/ActionDan- DeasVail
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I disagree that the way Dan claimed was necessarily townish, as he could easily have known that the roles were completely different going into the claim and thus known that it wouldn't come down to a 1v1. However, I am thinking of going with TGAH over Dan today.
Also, scum have daytalk. I can guarantee it.
I think there may have been something else I wanted to comment on that I've forgotten. I'll go back and see.- DeasVail
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Main concern is that there's not really much effort at all to look town there. Thoughts?
I previously was like, "yeah, they're scum" when they took so long to actually make a post. I would kind of expect some sort of objection to their lynch, some sort of snarky comment somewhere, something, so in a way the above post seems too "clean"? And it's not very much considering how long it took to make it.
I'm sorry I tend to get all wishy-washy and indecisive when someone's about to be lynched. I think overall they're still leaning scum, but what are other people's thoughts?- DeasVail
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I am leaning towards Dan-town. I'll post my reasons later.
Also, I'm still in the process of reconsidering things, as I have too many townreads. If I had to pull out three scumreads right now, I'd probably say Kise, SAD, SafetyDance? but I really want to look at my weak townreads again + consider the flips.- DeasVail
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Oh, by the way, now that Dan has replaced out:
In the QT, after he had asked to replace out in thread, ActionDan made a post saying that because of what I said in the QT, he had come to think I was town (not exact wording, but you get the idea) and that he thought it would've been nice to continue talking, but that he couldn't handle camn and cerulean.
The latter part is possibly from scum, but I think the first part is unnecessary,. REally rushed as I've really got to go now, so more later on other people.- DeasVail
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↑ Nostredeus wrote:↑ Plessiezarus wrote:
↑ Nostredeus wrote:I'm really not seeing how ActionDan wanting to keep the neighbour secret is scummy
It seemed more ... needlessly stubborn than anything else, really. Kind of pointless to do as any alignment. But what do you think about his choice of target?
~ Pless
I can see some logic in it, in so far as DV leaned town on TGAH at the end of D1 so TGAH's flip would have allowed AD to tailor his approach in the neighbourhood based on that but I wouldn't give AD credit for thinking like that instead it looks like AD wanted a scum read in the neighbourhood to question.
I still leaned scum on him.
~~
I am thinking SAD-scum here, but first I want to ask to those familiar with his meta:
Are his big posts here (such as the one/s analysing interactions with dead scum) unlike how he plays as scum?
SafetyDance, why haven't you been more interested in showing people why they're wrong about ActionDan/Kuribo?
Regarding CDB, I did have a weak townread on him, and am not entirely comfortable calling him scum. First, although he's not themostactive here, in Mini 1376 (he was scum), he just didn't do... anything. Meanwhile here, he actually does stuff. I admit that he could just be more motivated in general now though.
The main thing for me is 283. I know everyone loves the coaching scumtell, but I'm pretty sure scum know this too, so I'm leaning towards thinking that scum would avoid a post such as Absta's, which is actually something I could see town saying.
I do admit the ignoring each other point could mean something, but considering how weak CDB's suspicion of Absta was, I don't think it's particularly surprising that he didn't follow it up.
I'll think more about it.
Kise slot is null. BT is null with maybe a hint of town.
Safety is still possibly scummy, but I'll have to go over that at some point.- DeasVail
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@Jason: From memory there seem to be a few people with SAD as a scumread, so I'm not sure why you dismiss him as not able to be lynched today.
@Kuribo (in response to 1173):
I was interested in seeing how he would react to it. (I think it's an awkward question for scum to respond to). I was considering claiming, but I was probably not likely to actually end up doing it without more of a townread on his slot. Sure, I would have felt pretty crappy going all "Well I'm not going to! Sucks to be you!" but I thought the possible (albeit small) benefits outweighed the consequences. (And I would've been a lot nicer about it too)
To the second, I do get pretty frustrated by people thinking I'm scum when I'm town (and honestly when I'm scum too), and I was a bit mean I guess in a way calling him out on not wanting to know my role when he had a good reason not to want to know it.
Why did you ask those questions in here instead of the QT? (Especially considering the nature of the first one)
TML, you're both saying that SAD is town because scum knew there was a traitor and that Sotty could be scum because scum didn't know there was a traitor.
I'm sorry about not getting to this sooner, but some days I'll be gone from 6-7am to 6-7pm my time with Uni on again (and I don't always get time to post in the mornings either) so sometimes I won't be able to respond for a while.- DeasVail
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BT's 1350 says that the thread points pretty strongly to kuribo-scum, but all he really says is "his macho doesn't seem town-fueled". You don't get to go all "ew 1v1 lynch" and then talk about how you just can't decide between Kuribo and Sotty, because Kuribo isactuallyreally scummy.
Um, with Kuribo being an actual wagon and all, I don't know how much of it is based on ActionDan neighbourizing me (if any at all), but one of the reasons he gave in the QT when I asked him the same question (before you guys did) was that he thought I was a PR because he felt like I was hanging back. I also think the way he said that he thought I was town in the QT after he decided to replace out is something that scum probably wouldn't think to do. Like, how does it benefit them. Kuribo maybe seems kind of town from his posts, but I'm not so sure on that one.
Reads will be properly updated this weekend, but at the moment:
Kuribo- Weak town. Some of his play I think could come from scum (I don't like him thinking that Pless's post gives information on the scumteam), but I have reasons to think the slot is town.
CDB- Weaker town. I agree that ignoring Absta is slightly incriminating and he's not that town, but I don't think he's been that scummy, and the post addressed to Absta is weird from a scumbuddy in my opinion.
SAD- I still think he could be scum. Main thing that comes to mind is his weird reaction to being called town on Day 1. Another weird thing is that Absta calls people town for suspecting SAD for that reason but as far as I can remember doesn't really care too much about SAD, so maybe scumpoints there. His comments about Absta beginning of Day 2 are just strange as either alignment so I don't know how to interpret those.
Kise- Eh.
I'll probably make a decision as to what I want to do and read over some people like BT and Nost, maybe Sotty this weekend.- DeasVail
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↑ Cerulean wrote:↑ DeasVail wrote:BT's 1350
Um, with Kuribo being an actual wagon and all, I don't know how much of it is based on ActionDan neighbourizing me (if any at all), but one of the reasons he gave in the QT when I asked him the same question (before you guys did) was that he thought I was a PR because he felt like I was hanging back. I also think the way he said that he thought I was town in the QT after he decided to replace out is something that scum probably wouldn't think to do. Like, how does it benefit them. Kuribo maybe seems kind of town from his posts, but I'm not so sure on that one.
Reads will be properly updated this weekend, but at the moment:
Kuribo- Weak town. Some of his play I think could come from scum (I don't like him thinking that Pless's post gives information on the scumteam), but I have reasons to think the slot is town.
See this doesn't make sense, then again not a whole lot of dans behavior made sense. You say he said he neighborized you because he thought you were a pr, which would imply he already had a town read on you but in Post 1122 you say he said he had come to have a town read on you based on things said in the neighborhood. Now unfortunately Dan decided to engage in needless posturing and then act like mr mcsissypants when it garnered him a negative reaction that he knew beforehand it would get him, so those of us who were trying to get a better read on the slot are left confused overall for why he chose to neighborize you.
You say you have reasons to think he's town, well if you actually do it would be nice for you to share them. Empire and I have spent far too much of the limited time we have to play discussing that slot as a whole. And kuribo's focus on his 1v1and set up spec instead of actually scumhunting isn't helping clear up that slot.
Sorry the reasons are what I said in that post. Also, he did leave open the possibility of me being scum when he said he thought I could be a PR, and this is something I could see influencing my own choice of neighbour target, which is why it seems ok to me.- DeasVail
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@BT: Sorry, I've realised what I was saying was wrong. Why didn't you argue against my accusation that you didn't have any reasoning to suspect Kuribo? Also, I didn't ignore Absta, and I'm pretty sure that my comment on my experiences with him makes sense of my lack of suspicion/defence of him.
I don't get the problem with my thoughts on Kuribo's posts?
Can you summarise why you want to lynch me?
~~
Sorry Kuribo. I'd probably vote SAD, but I want to have a proper look at people. (This is most likely happening tonight, so get excited!)
First impression is that CDB feels more town.- DeasVail
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Reading back over Nostredeus, I think my read has weakened, I think I kind of gave him a free pass after his appeal for a mass nameclaim (which I still think is townish), but I think there are scummy things too:
In 461 he seems to stop voting for Shadoweh just because other people aren't voting for her anymore, and there's no mention of him sheeping other people as a reason to have a weaker scumread on Shadoweh either.
At the end of Day 1, he's just resigned to TGAH being lynched (makes sense from mafia thinking he's town and maybe even knowing TGAH is scum). He kind of doesn't agree with the TGAH lynch, but offers no alternative. He doesn't seem interested at all in lynching a scumread, and more concerned with deciding what his 'position' is on TGAH.
1266 is an example of a post that feels genuine to me though.
Nostredeus, why aren't you pushing a Sotty lynch harder?
Overall, I still lean town on him, but the read is weaker than it was before.
~~
But the above isn't that important, because DV has made a decision!!!!!
The one that you should all lynch is:
Spoiler:
So, there's 323. I know you're probably sick of me going on about this millions of times, but I really think it's scummy. When you look at why town would say that, you come up with all kinds of problems: Why do I need a good reason to think he's town if he's actually town? He says that finding him town for bad reasons is not a scumtell, so that can't be what he's getting at. I'm just left with a big ???
However, when you consider that scum could easily say it in an attempt to look town, then the most realistic option is that he's scum.
Um.... so yeah, there's not really anything else that I think is really scummy, except possibly that really weird reaction to the Absta death, but I don't know.
The thing is, one of the main reasons I've heard for SAD-town is him mentioning the possibility of a traitor, which, considering that scum may not have even known there was a traitor and that I don't think it's that daring even if they did, is not something I agree with.
However, I'm not really as confident about this is as I thought I was (and I sooo wanted to be for once! ), so I'm pretty open to people's townreads because he feels sort of town otherwise, but there's nothing that couldn't come from scum in my opinion.
I'd be ok voting Kise too I think.
And sorry, I'm probably weirding people out even more now.- DeasVail
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Plessiezarus, vote SAD with me?
I know you kind of think I'm scum, but if I am, then joining a wagon with me as the only voter is something that scum probably wouldn't do, so you could be cleared!
I would like the Kuribo wagon to stop if possible though.
PEdit: Reading that post, I think he's trying too hard to address the points, when in some of the cases he doesn't really have anything to say (particularly the Shadoweh kill, but the whole post gives me that kind of vibe). - DeasVail
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