/in-vitational 12: Mafia in #YOLOville - All wrapped up!

[Shadoweh]

THANKS FOR TELLING ME THIS STARTED FARADAY.
I also have no idea what Yolo is.
.. OH it means You Only Live Once! Thank you Lonely Island for educating me.

Tierce you should have thought of that before you sent me My Little Phoenix. Just think of me as the anime adaption.

12) Shadoweh
13) Tammy
14) Tierce
15) Vi

Besides, look at this, it is fate for us to be arranged so nicely together! I propose that we form a Voltronesque ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ and lynch everyone whose name isn't us. And maybe Empire because I really like TLI. People are already started with the penguin who made a post that screams VOTES HERE PLEASE. /o/

##Vote: penguin_alien

(I'm not usually topical actually but I thought I'd try just this once.)

[Shadoweh]

To be fair I've had since the player list was made to want to say that. I'm capable enough scum to not mess up my first post, geez. -_-
(may not actually be good enough to do this)

[Shadoweh]

To be fair Tierce does seem pretty obvtown now. Then again I am a terrible judge of character.
CTD: Hi, I'm pretty sure we've never played before, have we? It shows. Since you think my post is SCUMMY, I'm surprised you wouldn't remark on Empire's opinion on it in that post while you're voting on him, did it not affect your read at all?

[Shadoweh]

Half prod dodge until tonight.
I didn't say I suck at reading people, just Tierce. Luckily every other person on the site is pretty good at finding scumTierce so I'm set.

[Shadoweh]

I suspect penguin is going to replace out actually. Though they're clearly posting in other places.
Shaniwéh sounds like if I wanted a porno name. >_>
I am going to put forth the theory that Empire is scum and therefore can't join the Townie Voting block after all. I've been getting weird feelings from his posts, for a guy who is fairly confident in being able to read people it is downright weird to me to see him be so unsure of how to do that. Empire, what exactly about this game is making it hard to read people that you seem to have been able to read perfectly well in every other game I've seen you in?

##Vote: Empire

[Shadoweh]

Also I am going to be semi-away because I am having a slight housing problem, but shouldn't have to V/LA for it.

[Shadoweh]

So you can confidentally read nearly half the playerlist but you're swimming for reads? Where I got the 'impression' that in general you aren't a wishy washy guy is from reading this in particular: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=23930 though it's the impression I've gotten from watching you in general. Your Llamarble vote doesn't strike me as you analyzing him and finding him scum, it looked like throwing a rope at a log and hoping you can ride out the current on it. Even your questioning in the above post is weak and kind of like 'eh i just want you to talk more I guess'. It's not the voice of someone questioning their suspect.

Also I am probably the wrong person to try and convince I'm scum, I remembered my glasses today and my pm clearly says townie obvtown.

[Shadoweh]

This is going to be one of those games where I get ignored until people want to lynch me again isn't it. >_> I supose it's because I'm not sure enough to engage INDIGNANT RAGE mode. I assure you I mean every moment seriously though.

Yes. That's six people. Of those six, two of them (Tammy and you) haven't really posted enough for me to get a confident read and one of them is Vi. The other three are some form of townread. I don't know what else you're expecting from me on page 6? I'm not half the man I used to be.

I know we haven't, that's why I thought it was weird that when Tierce asked, you scrambled to have some kind of read on me. Would it really have killed you to honestly say you don't know? Also, is Vi really that hard to read? (honest question because I don't think it is). Again though, you don't feel like someone who feels like he has 3-6 townie buddies to win the game with. Do you not value hard town reads?

Your Llamarble vote doesn't strike me as you analyzing him and finding him scum, it looked like throwing a rope at a log and hoping you can ride out the current on it. Even your questioning in the above post is weak and kind of like 'eh i just want you to talk more I guess'. It's not the voice of someone questioning their suspect.

The two are not mutually exclusive and going on fishing expeditions in the early game is perfectly fine, no? And how do you expect someone to address a suspect then? If you're talking about acting all indignant and shit, I don't really feel like acting this way.

Maybe it's because I don't have someone like Thor insulting me this game.

I expect you to treat a suspect like a suspect. Whether you're rude or polite about it, I should be able to tell you suspect them from reading what you say about them. I'm waiting for your big reads wall at this point to see what you really feel.

Pretty sure I didn't try to convince you you're scum?

I read the post wrong and saw a do instead of don't >_> Nevermind

[Shadoweh]

Says the person posting in dogspeak? You have eyes, you're fully capable of reading what I've been saying. I don't have a read on Llamarble, and it looks like that line of questioning is already being covered.
Also I agree with Nacho about pengu triggering gut just by posting. I thought the second post was better then the first.

[Shadoweh]

Tammy you could at least spell my name right. >:| I keep appearing because I'm watching between listening to Quad City DJ remixes. Also there is nothing wrong with Foxy flirting.

-The comment(s) that accompanied her penguin vote struck me as unusually confident (even if it was not serious). I'm not entirely sure why the town voting block idea felt scummy to me. Perhaps it relates to the fact that the suggestion makes the assumption that the other players mentioned are all town or at least demonstrates a lack of interest in determining their allignments (even if it was not serious).
-a.) She calls you obvtown but in the same post she gives herself room to change her mind. Note also that she wasn't even asked to give her read of you- I have no clue why she talked about you in post 50.
b.) IIRC, she asks CTD to reconsider his suspicion of her because Empire, the player CTD had voted, had nullread her. I don't see why that's a reason for CTD to reconsider. I also got the impression that Shadoweh is trying to make her meta defense look like an effort to discern CTD's allignment- that looked suspicious.

In order:
The comment(s) that appeared too confident quote unquote is referring to everything I said about my dream team? I would have called the emotion unbridled optimism. I'm quite sure all three of them are town. Just by posing the question I expect reactions that help determine that alignment.
Re: Tierce: Why would you need a reason to talk about Tierce? I vaguely recall someone mentioned her and reading her around that time though.
I'm not sure what you mean about the CTD thing. I didn't say he should reconsider. I asked why he hadn't mentioned the connecting opinions there. My meta defense is 100% sarcastic derision of someone voting me for Being Shadoweh. Kind of like being suspicious of me for wanting to make a voting block which I clearly haven't been voting with.

Empire didn't post a wall on me and now I don't feel special. Procrastination says fuck it and find other lynchable reads. Guess I'll check out Johhog, DeasVail, Konowa for weak scum. And I GUESS the main wagon even though I don't feel interested in him which is usually my subconscious telling me to sleep through reading town lynches.

[Shadoweh]

Tierce, Shadoweh, T/S

I thought you were just making fun of our initials actually.

Junior dude who I have been reading as WickedJester this entire time: No. That statement of alignment is reflective of what I concluded as of that post. IE as of that post I believed my voting block was Townie Obvtown. The pengu thing was just that his first post was shaky and is unrelated to optimism. I honestly don't remember which comment that was in response to. And CTD didn't completely ignore Empire's post so. If I seem disinterested in arguing with you it's because I think you're town too.

Tierce I am extremely disapoint right now. Someone not commenting on the general town read on you isn't noteworthy. Vi should not need to explain your own vote to you. You should seriously stop blowing off reading Vi, even if you can't pick up sekrit scum tells, you can still find the town ones right? I'm not even going to comment on the other thing you did because I think you said it just to annoy me. I have no intestinal disagreements to your N case though and will consider following.

Aw, I didn't know you cared.

I've noticed in quite a few of my games I've alienated people and gotten myself mislynched, so I'm trying a new thing. I'm not sure what you're exactly expecting from me (have you gotten my meta mixed up with someone else's?), but I can go through the whole thread and make snarky comments if you'd like?

I would prefer you make a post with the snarky comments you've been reserving for people actually, because a quick glance at your meta says that seems to be how you express reads of people constantly, when this game all your comments haven't involved your opinions of people. Specifically the why's, instead of it looking like you're getting scum reads out your butt. (also I like snark)

Llamarble:

Post 49 remains a scum pattern match for me; in addition to the link making it feel like a construction instead of a collection of thoughts, here's an attack on X but let's vote Y tends to gnaw at me.

This feels like you're inventing reasons to justify a bad vote after the fact. It's not a good reason either as I was not attacking one person while voting another, but rather attacking two persons and voting one of them. I can hardly vote for two people at once.

If it helps you did the same thing he's accusing you of in #189, start off by re-itterating you still have scumreads on the same two people, end by reminding people you still totally suspect the guy your vote is on, and frankly all three of your suspicions reasons look skin-deep. Empire's post was self-reflective because he was answering the question I asked him about himself. Summing up my reasoning for attacking Empire as BoP is simplistic and in my opinion wrong. And saying Llamarble is being self-conscious about his wagon is weird when multiple people have noticed it's more like annoyance, more weird when there's no point of reference for what exactly was weak about it.

CTD: I initially liked the way he came across in his early posts w.r.t. his vote on me but I'm not a fan of #189 at all, it feels like he's trying to fan the flames of the argument Shadoweh and I have been having while at the same time expressing his support for a Llamarble wagon.

Why do you have a problem with this? It's not like I'm just paying lip service to the Llamarble wagon, my vote is there. You're using awfully suggestive lingo here to characterize my post; why do you think I'm "trying to fan the flames" of your argument (implying a scum motivation) as opposed to me trying to call attention to the argument because I can see a scummy mindset behind it from either or both players? Unless I've missed it, you haven't commented on the fact that Shadoweh is subjecting you to a pretty well established logical fallacy and are seemingly just riding with it, which somewhat baffles me. She appears neither among your town, nor your scum reads. What's your read on her?[/quote]
You know, I discarded this thought reading the first part because I thought it was dumb but 'or both players'? You are seriously trying to keep open the possibility that Empire and I are scum together and I started harrassing him immediately? And I'm not a rocket scientist but Empire has said multiple times that he thinks I'm lower-tier town. Reading him yourself would have solved this conundrum.

Shadoweh has done nothing to alleviate my concerns about her and is developing into a top suspect for me. Apart from from her fallacious attack against Empire, she has not done any scumhunting so far and is seemingly going out of her way to ignore all relevant aspects of the game, most notably the Llamarble wagon.

Fallacious is a dirty sounding word. Can you stop using new and interesting verbs to describe people and instead actually point to what is causing these magical reads of yours?

Guess I'll check out [...] the main wagon even though I don't feel interested in him which is usually my subconscious telling me to sleep through reading town lynches.

I am actually not quite sure how to read this sentence, but I think what she's saying here is that she "subconsciously" sees Llamarble as a town lynch waiting to happen, and if that's the case, she should have been doing something to counteract the wagon. Her previous excuse for not commenting on the wagon was that she had a null read on him, so I don't think this is terribly consistent either.

I don't have any proof to directly counteract the wagon, therefore I have been attempting to pursue the lead elsewhere that I saw to try and drive up a different wagon. You'll have to explain to me what else exactly I should have been doing to counteract a wagon I was never on. That comment above is perfectly consistent with what I said earlier, null, uninterested, not worth looking at, but no concrete reason to trust.

I think the weirdest thing about your post though, is that after those three statements, you end up changing votes to N, the person that frankly you had the least and weakest things to say about. 'he said something offensive about this wagon' is attacking for Bad Play and not for Scum Play. It's not like it's hard to come up with real reasons to vote the guy either. I think you're attempting to ride the next easy wave. You also have the least amount of posts and your reads aren't changing at all during the day, you're just inventing reasons to keep holding onto your old scum reads. In my opinion it is near impossible for a townie to believe the same people are scum for an entire Day 1. I changed my mind about what I said earlier in this post, I think you're the most likely scum in this thread and I would vig you without a claim.

##VOTE: CrashTextDummie

[Shadoweh]

PS: I heard you all love quote walls so get used to them

[Shadoweh]

It's too early for you to be attacking N for playing to his troll scum meta. He does this as town as well; the difference is that he actually steps it the fuck up as town when he gets something he cares about. I seriously doubt that N is going to play in an invitational with a playerlist like this and expect to get away with doing nothing.

He kinda is trying to get away with doing nothing so far though.

go through the entire thread and make snarky comments to everyone

^h5. Opinion on CTD, lynch yes/no/maybe?

[Shadoweh]

You're leaning pretty hard on Tierce right here. I hope you're not suggesting Tierce is scum deliberately not reading me. You're only making vague passes at me being scum here; if you thought I was Town you wouldn't be making these statements to start with and if you thought I was someone you could comfortably manage a wagon on you would have listed me among your suspects. And this is coming from someone who made a big deal of saying that I'm

so

easy to read.

I have said you are town at least three times so what are you talking about? I'm also perfectly capable of yelling at my town reads. Tell me all your thoughts on CTD. Because I'd really like you to vote him. And ask him why we're all town but him. I'm going to start writing songs about voting him if people don't start doing it.

DV: That kind of sounds exactly how I'd react if someone just posted a huge case on my buddy so could you actually read and find CTD scummy please.
Tammy are you ignoring me on purpose stop it. One liners from you are weird even if they're in post chains.

Tierce: oh look I replied to it with something that was easily findable by skimming my posts. Now you can answer me instead of continuing to try and irritate me.

I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL TURN THIS CAR AROUND IF YOU THREE WON'T BEHAVE NOW SHUTUP AND VOTE WITH ME.

[Shadoweh]

If I were going on easymode I wouldn't bother to yell at you at all. I don't think what you've been bringing up on Konowa is bad persay. I said I would look at him because you're attacking him you know. I just didn't get that far past the blazing star in my eyes that is CrashTextDummie and I will be able to see no scum before him so I would appreciate if you would at least discredit my thoughts on someone who is lurkposting and maintaining the exact same reads without change the entire day EMPIRE X SHADOWEH SCUM OTP.

Tammy usually posts huge blocks of

angry text

insights into how she feels about a person so one-liners that don't sound mad are strange. Also telling N to unsnark when compared to his other games he's not snarking. I would prefer he try to show some sort of personal opinion. I would imagine you want him to try and give out real opinions too, especially if he is scum.

[Shadoweh]

I was talking about CTD. Stop being obtuse.

[Shadoweh]

I go where my urges take me and they do not bend in that direction. I am like a willow in the wind. I am asking you directly to go out of your way not to ignore him for me and to give your opinion, in a way that isn't blowing me off, because I respect yours.

I think it's more relevant to mention someone attacking a town-read then to talk about their read on someone you're unsure of anyways.

[Shadoweh]

If you've been watching the argument Wickedjr has been having with me about my townie voting block:

The comment(s) that appeared too confident quote unquote is referring to everything I said about my dream team? I would have called the emotion unbridled optimism. I'm quite sure all three of them are town. Just by posing the question I expect reactions that help determine that alignment.

Junior dude who I have been reading as WickedJester this entire time: No. That statement of alignment is reflective of what I concluded as of that post. IE as of that post I believed my voting block was Townie Obvtown. The pengu thing was just that his first post was shaky and is unrelated to optimism. I honestly don't remember which comment that was in response to. And CTD didn't completely ignore Empire's post so. If I seem disinterested in arguing with you it's because I think you're town too.

I honestly don't know where you got the impression I thought you were scum from when I'm asking Tierce why she can't see your town tells. I do not want a wagon on you.

[Shadoweh]

Why not? I'd make a pretty good one. I'm avoiding all your scumspects, totes validate all your other reads, and it would help ignore me directly asking you questions! You aren't interested in a wagon because you have no reason to think I'm scum and I am insulted you would think so, so either put up or stop ignoring me.

[Shadoweh]

BTW if you were anyone else these posts would contain alot more expletitives because you are legitimately beginning to make me upset. I will continue to kick you in the hornet's nest until you answer me seriously.

[Shadoweh]

B-baka! Do you think saying you like my company will make me happy? I-I'm not that easy to please! Just beccause wagoneh made me giggle doesn't mean I forgive you!
I meant ignoring what I've been asking you about though, but my crankiness is starting to wear off from the mornafternoon coffee. Please at least look at CTD?

[Shadoweh]

Hey, I'm posting in the middle of vacuuming and moving TV's too. But alright then. I'm going to think of sleeping again. I am flattered that Vi thinks this is me being less abrasive then usual. I don't actually remember.. oh, you're talking about freaking Otherworld. Ha ha funny, I think Day 1 is a bit different then replacing into a game town was obliterating to find yourself sccum and you and your teammate are the only wagons. I don't remember a second game where it was town/town/scum, I remember Me-town/scum/SK though.

[Shadoweh]

A little blatant tho, no?

Apathy isn't something scum do on purpose. Being blatantly scummy has never been an excuse not to lynch people who aren't trying. N isn't the one I want to flip first though.

[Shadoweh]

I just wanted to get your attention, which you addressed-ish with a 'will get to CTD later'. I hope you're not all waiting for him to post again, because he's taking as long as unreasonably possible to poop out posts and I hate waiting. And I supose no one is attacking you so you haven't been triggered. I don't know why you bothered to ask me to post though if you were just going to say I'm impossible to read early <.< I'm going to read that as 'Looks Town but I still have scarring even though Shadoweh sounds nothing like a fuzzy ball.' I think it's because you're directly reacting to every post iinstead of making your own to shinily leap out of.

[Shadoweh]

If you were scum you could do it with your buddies!

[Shadoweh]

CTD: Your scum list is like a Katamari Damacy game. Empire. Empire + Shadoweh. Empire + Shadoweh + Llamarble. Empire + Shadoweh + N + Llamarble BANZAI! You keep collecting suspects without doubting that maybe you were wrong about one on the way. That's the lack of change that I'm referring to that is completely accurate.
"Here are two ways to counteract a wagon. You didn't o the first one THEREFORE YOU ARE BAD" ignoring that my argument was that I was doing the second thing. GJ.

Cmon, you apparently would have the support of all the people voting N if you went for me, and maybe some other people who just haven't been convinced lovingly enough that I'm terrible anyways. My case against you is fucking awesome and your attempt to defend against a strawman version of it is just more fuel for the fire. Luckily you're not the one I care to talk to here unless you feel like voting yourself.

[Shadoweh]

Competing N/CTD wagons would be even better. Make a Johhog wagon yourself if you really want something competing with your own wagon. Saying that I tried and failed on Empire is different then ignoring that I tried. Unlike earlier I'm much more confident and determined to push you off of a cliff here. I like how you're trying to blow off/ignore me instead of using this 'bs case' as the proof you would need to make it hapen. You found a lynch that hasn't fallen apart yet and you plan to ride the wave until it washes N out or peters out so you can find a new home to hop onto.

'I'm not gonna read Empire but it seems like people think he's town so I'm going to ignore him now and pretend those early suspicions never happened.'

[Shadoweh]

Empire: Read ADwD past Day 5 I think when everyone I liked/that were watching me died and I got extremely bored with posting. It's a game of motivation and optimism! I like to think it's easier to tell then that but I guess I should be happy I actually learned to play scum without being terrible at it.
Pengu: Wagon hoooooooooo *lazy post down*

[Shadoweh]

CES: Votewise CTD is as viable as Pengu right now. I'm not going to vote Vi and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with the way this N wagon is turning out. I still hold hope that the people talking to CTD right now are going to realize he is full of crap and move over.

[Shadoweh]

My eyes are burning from cleaning fluid so I'm probably not going to post tonight. I admit that you're right, CES, and that I will consider moving to penguin soon. He does also have the distinction of having less posts then CTD and I can already see that his posts include:

After Llamarble, my clearest read echos most everyone else's in that Benmage seems town. I don't know what to make of N, but since the only game I've played with him was with him as scum pulling the wool over my eyes with a fake claim, I don't have a personal point of reference for changes in his style since then. Unless he wants to claim cop with an innocent on me, in which case I do promise I won't make the same mistake twice! More seriously, when I played with him as scum, he really worked to keep himself clean in contrast to his play here where he's not working to establish himself as pro-town.

and

Overall, N's posts don't show much scum-hunting and a propensity for side-tracking to my mind. I'm not seeing anything from Llamarble that makes me think town, but N reads rather scummy at present.

UNVOTE: Llamarble
VOTE: N

'he works to keep himself clean, no wait nevermind he's sidetracking and scum.' I also note that he mentioned reading my fine dining work without a read? But eh.

[Shadoweh]

lolbussing. To be fair I like bussing but only when my partner sucks and is actually bussable instead of a guy most people are calling me dumb for voting in the first place.

[Shadoweh]

Stuff moved in: should be able to make real posts tomorrow. I've at least been reading over the game though.
Deasvail: Which parts of the N wagon are eh? There are two obvious ones but other then that? Nlow that the coffee is kicking in and I'm not screaming at him I'm kind of resigned to Empire-Town so there isn't much room for error on there.
N: I know this is weird for me to be the one asking, but why are you voting CTD? Looking over your posts you uh, never mention him anywhere? I mean even the penguin is posing the obvious question here. 'Wicked and Benmage are town' don't answer the question either.

It would be ironic if I was the only one not voting N but I really don't feel like this being a one-wagon pony and somehow I don't think N's stellar contribution is going to help this take off so:

##Unvote
##Vote: penguin_alien

I MIGHT CHANGE MY MIND FOR A SONG THOUGH.

[Shadoweh]

Nacho: Tried that, it's clearly not happening. Johhog even less. You even said so. :V
DV: So you're okay with the people on the wagon but you think he's town anyway, basically?

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh - why did you move your vote off of ctd just about the time it looked like it was picking up?

Would you really call Main suspect N moving his vote 'picking up.' I would like you to note that people did not start voting him until AFTER I unvoted. I am staring at your votes scowling and wondering why this happens. I am afraid to vote him worrying that my vote will stand as a curse throwing everyone off the wagon running for the hills.

[Shadoweh]

Tammy, Johhog isn't getting lynched. Pick a real weagon and go with it.
I'm even refraining from replying to you because it's not important until you vote a real person today.

[Shadoweh]

You should vote for my buddy. He will totes flip scum and then you'll be all HAHA NOW I HAVE YOU SHADOWEH RIGHT WHERE I WANT YOU see it's incentive.

[Shadoweh]

Nope I like penguinwagon now. I've decided(tm)
I also agree with the opinion that one of N/Pengu is good today, as I believe their alignments are likely to be the same.

[Shadoweh]

It's not that I'm not here, I just don't have anything new to add and I am semi-happy with how the wagons are going. I still believe pengu-flip is more useful then N-flip to compare the two. Waiting for claims because I like those~

[Shadoweh]

Hi my name is not Tierce. N you are being an idiot, just shut up and claim.

[Shadoweh]

Like holy fuck it is terrible of you to act like that would be a reason not to claim, you're at L-1 now, we want you to claim in case you're something to turn this around for. (Or in some people's cases so they can hammer you for claiming to be cool? I can't claim to understand people). It isn't just Tierce, it's common sense.

[Shadoweh]

Actually, while you're at it, stop posturing about pengu and vote him because it's You Or Him.

[Shadoweh]

Ridiculous maybe, but how many scumbags do you know that forget to vote their own counterwagons when it means they'll probably be lynched?

[Shadoweh]

Sob. I can't believe I stayed off the traitor because the Tracker's vote on them looked suspicious. Gonna do some ~*~rereading~*~ but first.
Saying that CTD doesn't feel like a vig shot is ignoring that he was very nearly the main wagon yesterday and there were many people with lingering suspicion on him. Also Traitors generally don't die when they are killed, so let's just go with Johhog murdered and CTD murdered for JUSTICE okay?

[Shadoweh]

I'll talk about whatever I want and you'll learn to like it.
Rereading Mr. Dalmacy, besides his /o/ reads on me, Empire and Llamarble, he also apparently had a scum read on Wickedjstr, Konowa and Johhog that he didn't feel the need to go into further. I dislike his switch to N actually, along with the shifting to a town read he gains on Llamarble, because he puts more reasoning into why he's totally okay with him now then he put into his vote in the first place. (wagon looks interesting).
Llamarble, did you take drugs to start today off? You sound drunk. I'm serious.
Honestly rereading Johhog isn't as helpful since he posts minimally and the person he suspected is already dead scum. It mostly points to N not being scum because he wouldn't be voting that direction.
Today I am a-okay with starting off with:

##Vote: Wickedjstr

[Shadoweh]

Someone he called scum is probably scum. Just saying. I kind of think CES is being more driving then he normally is. It makes me think town on him, probably in the same way Empire thinks he spots a town read.

Also you are forgiven but I'm watching you for Day 5 mind changes. O_O

[Shadoweh]

..Oh, he's on V/LA. -_-
Vi, can you sum up your vote in a way that doesn't sound like Oh My God CES You Suck? And I honestly would never have caught that Johhog thing as a PR claim. As saying he meant he was busy or something, but I'm surprised it was obvious to anyone.
I am also refraining from ranting about the kills only because it's not topical anymore, but suffice it to say I believe the deceptive thought patterns are bad for the future.

[Shadoweh]

I haven't read this game at all yesterday. I put a memo in my head to go read scum/town games of CES and Vi so I can offer an educated opinion on this fight (really to offer an educated reason why both parties should stop it). Despite what I said earlier about Vi, I would be even less inclined to vote CES right now, this is the most motivated and useful I've ever seen him be. That sums up why I'd rather wait for weird doods to stop being on vacation.

[Shadoweh]

Just to get my thoughts out as to where I am: Wicked (think points raised yesterday are valid and his responses don't really do anything for me), Shadoweh (think this sitting waiting on Wicked is Not Town, then with CTD flipping traitor the early push and then gradual slide bugs me).

You suspect me for waiting for your suspect to post? I don't have traitorvision, so sliding off of one is as null as being on a traitor wagon would be. It would be more like picking one townie over the other, and I don't tend to be particular as scum about that.

Vi: In ADwD I thought my team's traitor was town right up to when he was lynched (and originally thought he flipped traitor for the other team). I guess I can't prove that I missed Johhog breadcrumbing a PR here, but my ability to read subtle hints is provably awful. Besides, if he did wouldn't you be able to find it too now?

Still haven't read but I feel privledged enough to prod dodge as much as my target so #YOLO

[Shadoweh]

I wasn't referring to Shadoweh's slide off of CTD (I don't think that would make any sense as an argument since she wouldn't know his alignment regardless of alignment) but rather CTD's slide off of Shadoweh which I think makes more sense sense CTD would've known Shadoweh's alignment ifScum. I'm definitely going off the top of me head but I remember CTD still talking about Shadoweh as Scum but ignoring her.

It was more like he was telling me I was dumb for attacking him. The scum tell from it is a fair accusation to make since he was avoiding placing a read on me. I'm pretty sure he was just legit annoyed at my case, they tend to bother the shit out of scum in the wrong reasons way. "You are clearly paying attention." is just a way to sarcastically dismiss someone.

I also have no idea why CES thinks he is Vi, I'm pretty sure Vi pointed out some stuff that I was replying to? Insomnia makes me bad at reading (and I fell asleep twice while making this post) but yes. Actually now that I've had a chance to read over Wicked's reply he seems both a little sensical and in good humor. If I were to get involved in this 1 vs 1 that people seem happy to watch I'd be in favor of lynching Vi, but I really dislike how one-dimensional this is.

[Shadoweh]

I'm overdue for taking a serious look at this game, which ideally will happen by or before tomorrow night. You in particular can help me along by elaborating on this--

If I were to get involved in this 1 vs 1 that people seem happy to watch I'd be in favor of lynching Vi,

but I really dislike how one-dimensional this is.

I dislike how one-dimensional this -DAY- is. I'm noting my choice out of the two leading wagons that have polarized this day like they were running for President. I heard there aren't third-party candidates in Americalands. This is what I mean, and the fact that both you and CES are going balls to the walls at each other is contributing to it. I'm confused because I believe you're both town, yet the way you're both acting makes me think it's unlikely that two townies decided to get brain damage and ply these on the surface unreasonable cases. It's also in my opinion unlikely that the day would be centered around this debate if you were both town, surely the scum would be shopping around for less high-profile and talkative targets to be blamed for lynching.

tl;dr I think you both sound town but logically one of you is scum and I can't tell the difference so I feel like a slack-jawed yokel.

[Shadoweh]

I say alot of things >.> (I still think it's true which should tell you how much this situation makes me doubt reality.)
Because scum are subconsciously aware that they are pushing two townies and are unable to keep a straight posting face about it. That really doesn't seem to be happening here, there's a tenseness in the air. At least that's what I think. (I don't really want a Wicked wagon anyways and no one else is interested so okay.)

Also: Can you do wagon analysis that includes more then one wagon I mean you're already using an unflipped person's wagon for proof so..

[Shadoweh]

On Llamarble: I don't not-suspect him enough to assume he's already flipped town and I still think its weird how he turned into a Bunny Ears Lawyer on day start. Weird isn't scummy though. I just wanted to point out you were using one early day moment instead of a fairly fruitful day wagonwise.

Yes scum push mislynches, but they tend to flinch and I find it unusual that so many people would JUST go for you/CES. I admit that N wagon looks delicious with the bunchatownreads, but I'd want to go back and see who else was on there just before switching to hammer the other dood. I might actually do that tomorrow. (which is today but the next day doesn't start until you sleep).

[Shadoweh]

Ow, sorry, I'm about to go to work so I can't reply in bigness to Vi's hatred. (Why is it CES and you take turns between fighting to sucker punch me every time I post?)
I think I go out of my way not to point out the scummy things I'm doing as scum, but I haven't scoured myself to check it. Good to know where you want the scrambling directed to though. Not that I'm bitter. I just have one question, are you -sure- that you're a Vanilla cop that looks for the word Vanilla and not a Vanilla Cop that looks to see if someone has a role or not, ie a Mafia Goon would trigger a positive from your role as well?

[Shadoweh]

I was going to say I thought the role as stated didn't sound Normal but then a bunch of people posted about a normal in which this already happened. So I guess it's not that unbelievable after all. I am not volunteering for anything, if you think you can do it then go ahead and try, at least a wagon would make me feel more involved then being sucker punched by two competing wagons. (Which apparently you are blind to from the way you're talking to Nacho.)

I can't even be properly mad about Tierce because I think it's justifiable, I just can't get into this game. Sigh, I'll continue staring at these posts until a read pops up I supose. cross off vi ces nacho empire tierce, if vi then cross off wicked, cross ogml's replacement. I'm going to ignore logic and propose the theory that CES and Vi are two active posters caught up in each other for being too loud and go from there.


Benmage - I feel like I've stared into the sea of Chaos and come back not whole. I don't think I'm exagerating to say that Benmage is completely incomprehensible. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it at this point, but I'm positive none of his posts are actually saying anything and they seriously hurt to read. After I was done being dizzy I decided to just look at what he thought of Llamarble because he said today he was so scum, and his last mention of him before that is http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4744117 <-- "Llamarble is bumped to town" so I have to ask if Benmage remembers what his reads are anymore. Just to make sure it wasn't just Benmage I went to read him in another thread and it didn't burn my eyes to look at his posts so.
Cut by Llamarble asking if we can just lynch him. Well how much of that is based on him just hating you?

I'm just gonna post this now while I go down my not off list list (DeasVail, Konowa, Llamarble, Tammy) I will say right now that Tammy's post to Empire comes off as whining, which I really don't associate with Tammy-Town.

[Shadoweh]

Actually I already know what I'm going to say about Llamarble. "Took drugs Day 2, is literally insane, if Llamarble takes refuge in audacity as scum then is scum." Which no one has commented on today so presumably Llamarble is normally insane? Whatever.

[Shadoweh]

Admittedly that does sound like something I would say as scum. I was going to end the post just like that but I thought I would try to actually post something instead. This -IS- me working on it. And yes, it is a little because you're voting me, because it'd be shameful to be lynched on a wagon led by you in this game. I don't care about the wagons on them either way. It's two loud people with votes on them for being loud and fighting each other. Trying to look at it any other way has caused my brain to lock, so I'm just going to accept the conclusion that leaves me able to post words.

Actually, if I wanted to coast I would post alot more like I was in ADwD, because every time I've tried to engage people in this game has involved them noticing me. It'd be easier to just say fuck it and hide.

I've concluded after reading Llamarble in another game that him posting like he's insane is actually how he town posts.

[Shadoweh]

Konowa is honestly someone I wasn't reading at all. I also tend to ignore people who are attacking me with what I think are decent sounding cases. I have doubts the scum would have been looking at their traitor to see who he might have implicated as closely as Konowa indicated in #844, so I'm still inclined to ignore him.
Oh boy 4am. *looks at last person on list* *looks at tempting, fluffy pillow blanket chocolatey coated bed* eeeeh no I can do this.

[Shadoweh]

Not only did I fall asleep, I just realized I forgot DeasVail existed. Staring at Tammy's posts I can't come up with something that would drive a case in 3 days or bust. I do know what's bothering me though, her posts are too familiar. There's trusting, and then there's trusting to the point of not looking for alignments. That and she hasn't gotten into a hueg fight with anyone yet. How often does that not happen? <.<

##Vote: Benmage

Even if it's unlikely it's more reflective of my point of view right now, and I honestly wish to see neither of the current wagons dead at this point.

Also on scumslip: I don't think that's unusual sentence structure? "Vi's vote on CES is what I would have done as Town" would mean 'what I would do if I were Vi and town'.

[Shadoweh]

Tammy: Would you be upset with me if I told you I wanted to make you mad to see what would happen? Why didn't you vote me after that? O_o (Not that I don't mean what I said though. Yes, that's the part I meant as whining and no, at this moment I'm not really symphasizing with being ignored while asking other people to have opinions for you. If you're not scum then get your own? Maybe I'm jealous.)

Do you know what makes this even worse shadoweh? Is that just a few posts ago, you crossed off 8 people as town and gave a short list of four people on your not crossed off list. Then proceeded to cross off people off your not crossed off list. So, you trust two-thirds of this game and then decided to trust some more people? And then you seriously accuse me of being to trusting and not looking for alignments?

Should I have come to the conclusion that all five people are scum? I'm not egotistical enough to assume I found the entire scum team and we can all go home before actually reading everyone in depth. The logical conclusion is that I'm wrong somewhere, but finding something concrete in a group of suspects at this point is more important to me then sussing out which town reads aren't.

And I would say hypocrisy is somewhat of a town tell I most people, but I know that when you're scum you have a tendency to just say stuff and not be careful that you're being hypocritical or negating a previous post.

This is completely untrue, my town posts are written as near non-sequitors and I challenge you to find a game that isn't like that.

Llamarble: Speaking of insane, I'd ask why you're voting me, but I'm more interested in why you would group me as scum with the person I voted with the most detail on what I find bad about his posts. Also the idea that I would force myself to make up bullshit about both my scumpartners instead of putting at least one in the 'totes town' pile is insulting.

[Shadoweh]

If you have been reading my posts, which I'm increasingly believing you just read that one or two in which I said I wanted to sheep someone, you would know that although I've been flip flopping on you since the start of the game, the last thing I said about you was that I thought you might be town, unless I was off on my scum list and then you and/or nacho might be scum.

You said it awhile ago and the tone of your post implied you thought I was doing scummy shit. I wouldn't say I have a case worth sheeping but in my humble opinion it's better then what is quickly becoming a last minute power wagon on easy pickings. You're still currently voting Vi, so you aren't voting Not-Me yet. Even if you aren't confident, it's time to make a stand, at least that's what I think. (even if ironically being loud is what's contributing to this.) It sounds like you don't like the current wagons either so either look for something new for sharks to dig into or enjoy telling me to shutup in the votingest way possible.

If you look at my meta I also self-meta as town, because this conversation isn't meta enough. In truth you are correct, I didn't go into depth in your posts because after soloing the other lanes I needed to resupply. And I wanted to see your response first.

As for what I'm going to do now, I'm honestly not sure. I don't have a case to push people onto even if I were to convince people to get off me. I supose it doesn't matter, if the active posters want to throw me out then so be it. Just don't spend tomorrow lynching each other and take some pot shots at the lurkers instead.

I don't imagine it not coming up so I'm Vanilla Town. I wouldn't be half as miserable if I had the ability to shoot people after dark.

[Shadoweh]

I hadn't been reading Benmage before now. His posts aren't the kind of thing you're suposed to read sensibly in a row. (I've also guarenteed at least two more votes on me for my attacks on people that weren't looking at me before so go me!)
I'm not happy about it, but I don't have somewhere to explode to. In my experience it's not possible to shift a lynch without a suspect to shift it to, and somehow I don't think enough people are going to trust in my gut and switch to someone whose been the opposite of in the spotlight today.

[Shadoweh]

Quick votecounting says there is nothing you would call another wagon out there right now anymore. -_-

##Vote: CES

Goin to work look forward to seeing more pile-on when I get back!

[Shadoweh]

As long as we lynch from the Benmage UT Shadoweh CES Nacho pool I won't be too sad, but Shadoweh looks like the way to go.
The company on the wagon is excellent and Shadoweh voting CES at this point does bode well for her flipping scum.

It bodes well for me voting Not Myself you pretentious douche. Congrats at analyzing that a wagon that 'looks' good can be wrong. I wouldn't put money on CES being scum either but I've at least read my own role PM and it says you suck. It's written there, #LlamarbleSux.
(I don't have a twitter account, I just wanted to YOLO like everyone else :< )

[Shadoweh]

hehehe
I don't mean to be pretentious Shadoweh, though I certainly admit I think highly of myself.
Your reaction to your wagon isn't actually awful, though in your position if I didn't want a CES lynch I would make another one happen.

Benmage sure is the guy everybody wants to lynch but nobody is voting.

I WAS VOTING HIM. THIS RESULTED IN AN INSTANT WAGON ON ME FOLLOWED BY NO VOTES ON BENMAGE. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!

[Shadoweh]

I'm productively watching Pinkie Pie sing about smiling. It's making me much happier.
Vi he's still town due to CTD remember?

##Vote: Benmage

THIS WOULD MAKE ME SMILE SMILE SMILE

Tierce: Considering what I said about your vote I would hope you don't seriously believe I can't understand why it happened. Here is my thought process: In Weather Mafia I was dead set against lynching the only viable counterwagon to me because I thought they were town, and got lynched after there was no other option. That person was scum, and I really shouldn't have valued someone else over myself. I am TOWN and I want to see what the next flip holds.

[Shadoweh]

Reading back though, his vote is actually consistent with what he said after replacing in, which is more then I can say for most of the people here.
Wicked outright disappeared and I don't think DV has posted since before my wagon was actually a wagon. The votes do feel sluggish, like a swaying tree hoping momentum will carry it over. I'd prefer OGML over CES at least?
Llamarble, if you're going to be second-time dead set, you could at least tell me why. Everyone else has stated a reason. I really hope it's not because I 'work with UT' since that's not something I've personally done.
Cut: Empire, reading his iso:

Unvote, Vote: CES

Reading Crash from d1, CES is among the people he never did much with (see Tammy's

773

for a full list). He ends up with two mentions:

Short answer: I haven't seen anything from him that indicates scum to me. This comment was mostly intended to get you and CES to do something more productive with your votes.

In the quote, 'him' is Vi, while 'you' is Benmage. Kind of coach-y, definitely a kid gloves approach. This is also one of the reasons I've been interested in Benmage, along with the l-1 'blame someone else' wagon hop on penguin.

He did say why he wanted to lynch him? It's not like he has alot of posts to look though.

[Shadoweh]

I am legit excited to lynch someone I think might be scum, yes. You are looking way too much into me saying Tierce is town, I don't believe I'd call her anything but regardless of alignment. As for the second one it's more like ORACLE LEVEL FUTURETELLING don't you think? For the last, did you actually tell people they were a Katamari ball in the thread? That would be pretty awesome but most people don't post like that. I enjoy posting more when I remember to have a sense of humor. Today's posts up to now? Not funny. Needed more ponies.

UT: Actually my counterwagon is the same size as mine so whyfore are you voting me? You've literally not mentioned me since you replaced in.

[Shadoweh]

you're right, Nacho hasn't moved his vote yet, if he will or not. I supose it shouldn't be counted before it's moved, but still you'd be making them the same size.

[Shadoweh]

No wait, Nacho is already voting Benmage. UT was the other vote he was counting. *looks up at post* Which is apparently not happening. So about that thing where you literally haven't mentioned me before this moment and were ignoring me until CES stopped being viable? What the hell man?

I don't do ruses and a counterwagon is a counterwagon. I think I'm in the best position to know what it is.

[Shadoweh]

At this point I would like to be a total prick and say that one of the

wonderful

things about playing Mafia with greater-than-72-hour deadlines is that we could be lynching UT right now if we had more than half a day (as opposed to Faraday) right now.

And yet the defining wagon was decided in the last 72 hours anyways :V If we'd only had 72 hours either you or CES would have been lynched days ago!

DeasVail you are a huge coward for showing up at the last minute like this. I will say one last time that I hope after today more attention is given to the person cheerfully prod dodging with their posts and to the votes that stayed lazy during these last minute thought processes then to loud people trying to devour each other. You have so much in common, look at how cheerful you are when you work together! I probably won't be back before a lynch is decided anyways. Good luck townies.

[Shadoweh]

I'm still here reading trying to figure out why I'm not dead yet, thank you kindly.

[Shadoweh]

My main thoughts on a UT wagon at this exact second is it's kind of close to what happened to myself, someone who was considered a side target all day getting wagoned last minute. I know that's bad of me to say considering Benmage, but Benmage wasn't a target at all, and the way that his wagon keeps hitting a dead stall makes me more confident there's something causing a speed bump.

I would thank Llamarble but I'm not actually that good at being deceptive under pressure >_> I am at least glad that my Townie Voting Block isn't going to ironically lynch me today after all.

Tammy: @_@ If I say I'm sorry will you stop yelling at me while saying you think I'm town but god I do scummy things?

Empire: The potential lynch candidates being me, CES, UT and Benmage now, who DO you have confidence in coming back as scum?

[Shadoweh]

Empire: The potential lynch candidates being me, CES, UT and Benmage now, who DO you have confidence in coming back as scum?

No one, if I did, I'd be voting them and campaigning for their lynch.
If I had a gun to my head and were forced to pick right now, it'd probably be something like UT > CES > you > Benmage from best lynch to worst.

I'm not sure if you got the question or not, you're basically saying you think all four of us are town, so who -else- do you think is scummy? Or you're saying you have no scum reads at all?

Cut: I don't really think your randomness helped it look better, UT, when Tammy asks you for proof she means some sort of reasoning besides because scum or because town, and you're yelling at her for daring to want to see your thoughts.

[Shadoweh]

Well, you at least seemed to think OGML was scum? Honestly I find it unlikely that -someone- isn't scum there.

[Shadoweh]

I fail to see what that has to do with what I said. It's still true.

[Shadoweh]

Would you have killed a cop over someone who possibly isn't a PR? They aimed for a possible PR last time, and this one was on someone worth NKing regardless. It's not always that simple. Also it was a roleblock Tammy, but I'm not sure how you could or whether you'd want to leave a trail of that.

Despite my lowly white girl brainstorming efforts I wasn't able to contextulize the rap about why everyone should lynch Benmage properly in my head. Am I the only one who thinks his hammer was scummy? Along with his ignoring of the burdening wagon on him, and the lame vote on OGML who wasn't close to taking off that day which kept people from noticing they were handing the hammer vote to the other lynchee?

[Shadoweh]

Besides, I would imagine he roleblocked Empire because he thought he was scum. I'm looking forward to seeing actual suspects like he apparently forgot. The wagons lead me to the discouraging note that they've been made out of all the 'main townies' and they've all been on Town.

[Shadoweh]

##Vote: Benmage

I am not letting this go. I am sinking my talons into this and not letting go until Benmage is lynched and gone.

[Shadoweh]

Oh yeah, that's what I meant. He could have left a message with the mod to pass along, so he wouldn't get stuck in that position.
Shadoweh, do you mean the image of him throwing down his microphone? He was basically saying, "I'm done here"!
But yeah, the hammer was odd.

I don't think I've heard of any mods letting you send messages to replacements. You said 'reason why he tracked Empire', he wasn't a tracker dear.

Also Empire talking about a voting block like it was his idea deserves a kick in the teeth. Activity does seem to be a scumtell for you, you only posted 23 times in Triplicate as scum. And none of that has any clue as to why you forgot your totes scum read yesterday. I am willing to wait until you aren't drunk to reply.

Tierce how can you be so sure right now that Town is being led in the right direction when it's gone face first into nowhere while led by the Townest?

[Shadoweh]

Lynching everyone whose convenient so no one has to think about their reads is the warcry of the scum and I have had enough about it. Whatever you're all smoking has maybe PR's being prioritized over you and has you flopping at the last minute on town lynches that don't have much basis in the wagons of the day, IE wagon analysis based on motives becomes impossible. Meanwhile despite his reaction being to roll over and take a fricking longer nap no one cares about lynching one specific person and the response of people today is pretty much WHO AM I KIDDING YOU DIDN'T EVER ACKNOWLEDGE ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE

[Shadoweh]

Oh, are you going to tell me why? Does it make me sound like I'm not invested somehow, like I'm not INCREDIBLY ANGRY at how badly this is going for us? Do you just not like it because I'm not kissing your fake hydra buddy who could possibly be scum's toes enough? Am I interupting your pow wow? At least Tammy's waffling shows she's thinking about what's going on instead of marching blissfully pretending we still have a solid town core when that would mean the entire town core is happily mislynching everyone!

[Shadoweh]

As far as I'm concerned it's had two and 6/7ths. Though perhaps I will go watch more ponies and calm down, that came off as more offended then I should have. A town that isn't motivated to do things different is a town that settles into the easily coraled path of losing. Not everyone has the luxury to relax until they're nightkilled like you do right now.

[Shadoweh]

You can find what I've said on the subject easily enough. The others would prefer not to talk about who shot who N1. Suffice it to say I think you need to be deranged to think it happened the other way. If you want to know about my meta I hear Mafiastuck and A Dance with Dragons are good reading material. Short version: Being scum makes me sleepy, being town makes me loud and insane.

Tierce, I've stated what I want to hear from Empire, it's the same thing I asked yesterday. On lurking, I didn't say he was doing the same thing in this game, just that it was something I noted while reading his scum game. And from the sounds of it you just don't like my tone period. Did you lose your whimsy regarding Benmage overnight?

[Shadoweh]

I'm impatient to get answers to my questions instead of the runaround. Are you implying that that's somehow scummy of me now too?

[Shadoweh]

Mrr. OGML: People aren't going to stop asking you the question until they feel you've tried to answer it again. Since it is detrimental to what I want at this point I would appreciate if you would try to go into specifics again, even if it feels to you like you're repeating things you've already said.

Not that there's alot of Benmage to go into because he's been so contentful this game. Rocks only give so much blood.

[Shadoweh]

At least Llamarble outlined simply with votecounts why I've been freaking out over all my town reads. I just got home and lost interwebs last night so I haven't done much more reading. (I have no intention in answering the sane stupid why Benmage question, and OGML answered it better that I could have anyways.) I admit that the playerlist doesn't leave much room for narrowing down, but I truly disbelieve Nacho being scum in any form this game.

Cut :p obviously

[Shadoweh]

I assure you I am playing terribly.

[Shadoweh]

Why does it matter when the replace out noticce came? This isn't me being snarky, I just don't understand what the difference is.
Also Bemnage's counter to OGML is that OGML is a terrible player and omg he's attacking Benmage's abs. Yeah.

I WILL GO DOWN WITH THIS LYNCH AND I WON'T PUT MY HANDS UP AND SURRENDERyou know there is no good way to work in the rest of the lyrics.

[Shadoweh]

prod dodge, will post later today after work.
I really don't think Llamarble is being pigheaded here.

[Shadoweh]

What other game are you referring to?
Empire: Rereading I'm pretty sure CTD and Nacho arguing about CTD's terrible everything wasn't scum on scum and it reaffirms how I feel about his case on N, he was arguing with a suspicious townie about the case on his totes scumspect. Also Nacho is my waifu. And I'm not scum. I supose the point about PoE on CES makes sense though.
- tierce empire tammy nacho llamarble zach ogml
= three of Benmage Cogito Ergo Sum DeasVail

##Unvote
##Vote: CES

[Shadoweh]

No Shadoweh. You're supposed to townread me when no one else can!

I always townread you when you're scum too, or just in general because you're cute. To be fair I think Empire should explain where he got his new scumread on me from besides from his ass and I don't hate you, it's just a very who is left game. (If I don't give Empire a town read everyone will start yelling at me again so shhh)

That game doesn't seem interesting regarding CES, but it does have a Nacho-scum. A bit of skimming says Nacho's posts in his scum game were pretty much non-sequiters whereas here he was posing questions for discussion. So again happy with my faith in the original Innocent Child.

Also I've stopped reading Zach's posts because I don't have to and all they do is make me angrry with him.

[Shadoweh]

Maybe I don't want to see a pure PoE list from you because it doesn't jive with your mafia MO? Sorry but you seem like you take deductions too seriously to declare anyone scum without thinking they're scum.

[Shadoweh]

Wow, you're totally right, I have never ever seen you make a slam dunk case on someone being scum based on their scum meta before, I am sure no one who posted on this page can prove this statement is false. Considering I'm talking about your read on ME I would think it's obvious that I'm not looking for a scumread you daft piece of algae.

[Shadoweh]

I'm wavering on Shadoweh. Her posts seem natural, but she has no trouble posting naturally as scum either, so :hitoshrug:.

I am flattered you think my scum game has improved enough that this is true.

[Shadoweh]

<_< That wasn't the impression I got but that's probably because reading one of your cases was my first impression of you. I do think it's pretty funny that you're mad at me for expecting you to make a case on me instead of saying Everyone else is Town that's a wrap. I'm not going to stop hassling you because I know you're either wrong or scum and I really want to prove to people that you haven't got anything.

[Shadoweh]

See now regardless of alignment you're practically personally insulting me. Depreciating your own signifigance is scummy too btw. (Maybe that's why Benmage drives me crazy.) I don't understand from a town-motivated perspective why you don't want any strength to push lynches you want with.

[Shadoweh]

It's not the wagon I prefer, but it's the wagon we deserve.
And out of the other alternatives it's the only one I would support that has support. I estimate I still have enough town cred to not get lynched today, so maybe you should find something better to do then wag suspiciously at all my posts. You being innocent is disapointing.

[Shadoweh]

I sound annoyed because I'm annoyed by Zach's opinions of me, it's not hidden messages there. I'm annoyed in general because I feel irrelevant and don't have any nukes like in the other game I was playing elsewhere. I haven't found that solid thing to latch onto like a rabid meat eater. Also I like my notebook, it has all my doodles in it and you can't have it.

Ben: I don't really think DV is scum. I'm certain your current target isn't scum either though so I'm skeptical on the dragon rising.

[Shadoweh]

I think literally nothing has happened since I last posted, though I've been watching. >_> Probably because of Happy Eggy Day!

[Shadoweh]

Day two was hardly a deadline panic either. If there was a deadline panic, we would have lynched shadoweh who was at l-1 at deadline and had claimed vanilla. She should have been the lynch yesterday. That lynch was a comedy of errors beginning when ut went weeeeee let's see if we can do something else in 24 hours for whimsy and ended in the clusterfuck that ended with his lynch. There was no deadline panic there either. Okay bn could have held off on the hammer, but ut also obviously wasn't actually interested in discussion or he would have, you know, just answered some of the questions I had earlier.

To be fair, though I agree Day 1 wasn't as bad, Day 2 was two deadline pannics for the price of one. A second deadline wagon forming after the first one doesn't make it any less of a clusterfuck panic lynch.

I don't appreciate the comments about how I must be scum if CES isn't. Mafia is not a If=then system. Especially not from the guy who would be the alternate explanation for the scum motive besides me.

OGML What the fuck seriously. Do you care at all who gets lynched?

I am half-asleep typing this, I think the lack of sleep is starting to catch up to me, but I am seriously having second thoughts about this based on Mr.Setup and Mr. Bemnage-Looked-Too-Motivated-So-Let's-:effort:-harder.

[Shadoweh]

Your almost getting lynched wasn't panic. It was building up over time. But why are you choosing things like this to complain/whine about? What is it telling you about who is scum/town?
What don't you appreciate about llamarbles theory? What does that say about him? A good bit of his theory is based on Poe. Is there something wrong with his PoE pool?
What gives you the idea OGML doesn't care who gets lynched? Don't you guys have the same suspects? Were you just yelling at someone to yell?

Maybe. >_> I really shouldn't post at 4am when I'm not sure what I'm doing. The problem with paranoid ramblings, for example you suddenly having a thing against Empire, is that you can't know if you're onto something or if you're having a paranoid episode until a flip happens. If paranoia is correct, then Llamarble is basically the scum taking advantage of things. The thing is what he's saying is the most sense anyone's made all game.

The thing that's wrong with the pool and with some of the PoE in general is that there doesn't

have

to be a scum on every wagon. Especially quickwagons. Through extensive experience I've found that wild roving townies are the ones more likely to throw their votes around at random, it isn't out of the question that we're trying to narrow down a scum group that doesn't have any scum in it.

Or CES really is scum and I'm just wearing my tin foil hat too tight. I just think it's unsettling that no one disagrees with that part.

The thing that gives me the idea OGML doesn't care is that he is the one posting less content then me and all my posts are delusional ravings so it's a very coveted position. The thing I said Benmage did badly with the hammer is what he just did x100.

[Shadoweh]

PS I will support a Nachomamma wagon around the same time I finish my ADwD old man erotic fanfiction

[Shadoweh]

I really should be happy but I'm too preoccupied with trying to fit the rest of my foot in my mouth. It's already jammed in there pretty tight.

[Shadoweh]

In all seriousness I haven't looked at this game since the night phase ended and it's depressing to remember it exists. I don't think I'm up to writing something more extensive then I was wrong and shouldn't be allowed to make decisions. I will try to read over Nacho and see what there is to draw from there. I don't really understand how that lynch happened in the first place.

A good start would be why are you voting CES when you stopped lynching him yesterday to lynch Nacho?

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh: Can you provide me with games, as scum and as Town, where you had this kind of reaction to not being in a scum lynch? Because it seems rather excessive and you have been

not

in scum lynches before, up to and including defending scum. Why the sudden "woe is me"?

Probably not, I think you need an account to see the ones on the site I usually play on. There is a difference between defending scum and swearing up and down that they're the towniest obvtowns you've ever seen and you will never ever Pinkie Promise lynch them. I like to think I'm good at mafia sometimes. (Also I didn't read this when I last logged in, so I didn't see you wanted a question answered.)

Tammy: I did kind of read just before the lynch, I still don't get what happened because most of it is you and Empire arguing with each other. But you mean stuff like this?

Okay empires reaction to the dv/nacho thing is what I was looking for. I had the same reaction to the case and dv's response, But empire's better at reading dv than I am so I wanted his take.
VOTE: nacho
So we should now have truly competing wagons. This places them at 4 each. Empire it's up to you to make the choice.

Yes excellent reasoning. I understand why Benmage, Deasvail and Tierce voted Nacho. Your reasoning to vote Nacho was to pressure Empire which is kind of dumb but I've done it before so etc.
Actually now that I've finished reading the whole Nacho/DV thing which was pretty terrible I get it. Why did you need Empire to tell you that Nacho jumping on his supah town read was scummy?

How does this explain why the natural thing to do next is lynch CES? I mean, in this world we're living in where one of me/Benmage/OGML is scum with the two of them either Benmage ramped up a wagon on his other scumbuddy or I started the day bussing CES for no reason while ignoring the way my buddies were trying to start alternate wagons. OGML's vote is the only one that makes sense to me in that circumstance since he'd have jumped late on the wagon for cred. I guess we could be the worst most inconsiderate scumbuddies ever.

I've 100% changed my mind on OGML in general actually since his posts are absolute shit.

I might have been wrong about Benmage, because Shadoweh really seems like he wants us all to know he's scum too

Benmage shouldn't even be in consideration anymore, especially if you believe CES is scum too, because it would mean he avoided bussing the buddy everyone suspected and still suspects to drive a lynch on the buddy the majority of people weren't going to lynch. At least if OGML flips scum it would prove I'm not his buddy because I'd never let him call me a dude. One of Benmage or Shadoweh is a sucky position to take when you're running out of PoE slots, our alignments aren't related. I'm also quite sure this guy has never read any of my posts, I know I have no idea why he suspects me, he's never mentioned me before. Maybe it's because I pointed out he's voting for the sake of voting yesterday.

##Vote: OhGodMyLife

I guess I'm not against a CES lynch with that in mind, but it really seems like CES was the lumpy scum-driven lynch and Nacho was the out of nowhere townie sweep.

[Shadoweh]

I assure you it's not about annoyance at this point. And as of now I went back and reread, though there's some posts before my last one that day that I missed/don't remember. <_< You did explicitly say you were waiting for Empire. And you make a point about Nacho that I'm collecting lovingly crafted quote walls about, so I will admit I bothered you about that in error. Can you tell me why you still think CES is scum with him?

[Shadoweh]

...I'm still puzzling through the argument Nacho and CTD were having oveer N's alignment, so I'm not sure what to make of it, but Nacho's content on CES is horrible. By horrible I mean it doesn't exist.

CES seems fine so far although the penguin-N-Vi scumteam doesn't really feel like something that's anywhere close to valid to me, but that's fine for now. The exchanges with Vi (with Vi's response being "oh, CES isn't trolling right now!") feel doubleplusgood to me, so he's a townread for me at the moment.

In a wall of reads that definitely state town-scum reasons, this is too waffly to be believable. Alot of seems fine for no reason. He does very little talking to him afterwards, and then commits this:

Meanwhile, I need to do a little reanalyzing. I still am watching Empire, but I don't really think he's scum this game. Still feeling fine with a Wicked lynch, but I want to focus a lot more on CES-Vi today.

That focus involved asking CES who his scumteam pick was, asking why it was me, and then we're done with CES and back to voting Llamarble. Also slightly chainsawing by attacking Llamarble for his voting reasons on CES. (The Nacho/Llamarble fights probably clear Llamarble as well.) He keeps saying he'd lynch CES and even voted him briefly before jumping off, but there's no why behind it ever.

So I answered my own question I guess. Thanks guys!

You all cut me a bunch but I'm gonna post this first.

[Shadoweh]

Hey Shadoweh.
What about the fact that you-Town considers people who don't read the game during Night lazy and it is something you feel rather strongly about?
How about the fact that you didn't read the Nacho/Deas interaction

until now

? I understand not having read it before the lynch if you weren't around (unlikely that you were gone

altogether

, but I'll give you the benefit of a doubt), but

over two full days

to read what was frankly a visible scum meltdown? If nothing else, it was entertaining, so why didn't you even read it? Over two days feeling depressed that you had defended scum? COme on, how long have you been playing mafia?
What's worse: I'm going to toot my own horn here, but iirc you like reading my posts. My follow-up to my vote on Nacho specifically mentions the Deas/Nacho interaction.

And you hadn't read it.

Lazy, lazy scum. Tammy is right.
(And no, Benmage, I am not using a "pressure vote". I'm being practical when I say CES won't be lynched during V/LA.)

It is pretty lazy. I'm not denying that I've been outright avoiding the thread ever since I saw the big red flip. I'm feeling more perky though. And to be fair I didn't read up to the part where Nacho started melting in the first place so I couldn't have known he'd done that! (Or that you'd posted that thing either, I read it now though.)

I'm not sure if it even matters if you lynch me eventually because right now the game is on its way to lockdown. There's a good chance Me/CES/OGML will just end the game. I feel like reading anyways just in case.

Also it's not like CES was going to respond very much if he wasn't V/LA. You don't think he's scum though, so I can understand why you'd push in the other direction. What do you think of what I've brought up?

[Shadoweh]

ps i noticed you don't think he's scum because i read your posts

[Shadoweh]

Tierce I'm refreshing just for you, don't leave me hanging here.
Actually I guess you do want to leave me hanging. Doh ho ho ho!

[Shadoweh]

Alright alright. I will attempt to maintain :goodposting: attitude until then. It'd be convenient if you lynched me before the end of the month actually but I'm sure we can just win before then instead.

[Shadoweh]

Busily listening to YOLO and Ten Desires remixes. Today doesn't seem like it has much disagreement anyways. Empire, what do you think of the argument Nacho and CTD were having over whether to lynch N or not? I would dearly like to believe that OGML's phoning it in is coming from a limping scum.

[Shadoweh]

I think Benmage is town. I outlined why a few posts ago. So your reasoning is that the Nacho lynch happened in the heat of the moment, and you think the blunder would have been forgotten if he hadn't been lynched right away?

I'm honestly not sure what to make of his behaviour towards me in general. Maybe he wanted to keep the townie that thought he and his buddies were supertown around. Maybe he wanted to act like he cared. Maybe he just wanted to make some friends and live by the ##YOLO creed despite his unfortunate scummy upbringing. Unfortunately it was not meant to be. Perhaps in YOLO2: The YOLOing.

[Shadoweh]

I'm really bad at pretending to be angry. It doesn't matter if we share the same suspects. I changed my mind after a scum lynch, while you aren't reviewing or thinking about the game.

[Shadoweh]

Why do you people keep asking me questions I've already answered today.

[Shadoweh]

Shrug. I think the evidence points to itself. I haven't found CES himself scummy, but I didn't find Nacho himself scummy either. I trust the evidence more then I trust my own judgement. Nacho was clearly avoiding giving reads on CES and said he'd do a reread that never happened, it's a standard scum play. I mean this post wasn't that long ago. In the first quote Nacho doesn't sound like he's talking about someone he has a town read on. He says reasons to suspect CES to be scum, then says 'but they're fine'. It's like trying to justify a town read that you know doesn't exist.

If that's not clear enough I can look up a thesaurus to say the same thing again for you. I'm more interested in finding the third then continuing to prove why someone everyone else already thinks is scum, is scum.

[Shadoweh]

If that's what you think it looks like. I've already said I think I'm expendable. I don't even think you have a bad case against me since it'll prove I've been defending two scum. I can't change the past. I also don't know what you mean with distancing because I'd probably already be voting him as scum, I'm much better at bussing then distance. I've never promised a reread that's never happened and I've never shirked talking about them when people asked me and hoped they never noticed. Just pointing out scummy things someone has done isn't scummy.

Also he's still not flipped yet. You could at least wait to see if we're right before deciding I'm their buddies.

[Shadoweh]

Actually i probably have promised to reread and not done it earlier, just I didn't pretend that I had. <_<

[Shadoweh]

I had noticed. What do you think Nacho was doing then, voting Llamarble literally every day?

[Shadoweh]

DV, buddy, do foxes need glasses? Why would scum give more content on their buddies? What do you think of the content itself? Why is it weird to ask why your scumbuddy can't be town when you're not commiting either way with the question? That post 1497 you linked to is pointing towards CES not saying anything about Nacho at all (if you're trying to prove me wrong on OGML it hurts me inside though).

[Shadoweh]

I'm pretty sure the definition of a traitor here is they know who the scum are and the scum don't know who they are. In ADwD that's how it worked for our traitor.

[Shadoweh]

What does that have to do with anything? You're a poster child for how being hypocritical isn't a scumtell. The only way I see CTD's posts is he was trying to hint that he knew I was town because he was scum to Nacho or something. The two of them had weird conversations about eveeryone. I think CTD was picking fights with him on purpose.

Benmage probably isnn't scum so he was probably not bussing Benmage. My play doesn't make sense as a person maybe, but town has the right to be irrational.

[Shadoweh]

It's okay Tammy, you can think that but I'm probably gonna be here for awhile still. I won't need you to respond to me.
Shadoweh + Benmage is probably the only connection that doesn't make sense together. <_<

[Shadoweh]

Can we talk about Zach's death for a moment? Yes, he was absolutely clear once Nacho flipped Goon, but... why Zach? Simply a random choice among obvTown? Are the last scum more afraid of him than of Empire, Tammy or I? What happened there? This game seems to have more obvTown than the scum know what to do with, but they jumped from PR hunting to eliminating someone who was a guaranteed vanilla and who generally opposed the Nacho lynch until the hammer. Why Zach and not one of the three of us?

Tammy and Empire read Town, but... I don't really understand this kill. The reasoning I can see is superficial, and I don't like that. Ideas?

Zach was kind of confirmed town thanks to Vi. Zach may have been pushing against the Nacho lynch, but he was gung-ho about lynching CES with OGML as a third, so once his wrong scum died it's possible they just went for the confirmed town that had nothing but right left. He said some teritary bad things about me too I guess.

The other reason to keep the 'obvtowns' alive would be either to foster the kind of fight Empire and Tammy were having, or because one of you really is scum avoiding narrowing down whose responsible for the weird kills. There's enough lynches left to kill all three of you if it's not OGML and CES so we'll see how it goes!

[Shadoweh]

-_- I did so read what you said. Besides, why would they kill you when you want to lynch me before CES? I wouldn't be surprised if you were killed once he flips if he's scum though. You're the one who isn't reading if you summed up an entire paragraph where I talk about how NACHO IS DEAD SO THERE'S NO REASON TO KEEP SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO LYNCH THE LAST SCUM ALIVE with him being confirmed town as a side plus as just about him being confirmed town. You didn't read past the first sentence because you thought I ignored you, admit it.

[Shadoweh]

I don't think Vi being shot is ever strange. It is weird that the last scum feel confident enough to not aim for the strong players unless they have a power role on their heads.

[Shadoweh]

Because he's the other likely scum. Do you want me to vote CES? I mean I could right now, I'm sure no one would be upset..
Tammy do you really think Empire has 0% chance to do something to set you off again? If neither of you is scum I agree that it's shortsighted, but it's still possible.

[Shadoweh]

Also I slept for about 16 hours yesterday. 16 hours! I am feeling chipper as a mouse in the spring!

[Shadoweh]

Pink is my least favorite color ;-; WHY

[Shadoweh]

For the record I don't think discussion today is going anywhere beyond the 101 ways that CES is scum, but if things go wrong I'm not going to be the one who needs the extra time to figure it out so I'm not going to take the time away from them.

Cut by sheeping scum? Llamarble are you trying to prove Ben right?

##Unvote
##Vote: CES

[Shadoweh]

Llamarble you tool if I didn't answer when you said you were going to hammer did you think maybe I wasn't here? Incidentally I was reading the Dangan Ronpa 2 update and I regret nothing because it was AWESOME yeeees.

##Vote: OhGodMyLife

<-- We all know how this day is going already. I look forward to hearing why I'm scum from people I would have killed a thousand times over by now as scum.

[Shadoweh]

I was protecting all of my partners by your definition. All of them! CTD doesn't count since I couldn't have known what he was either way. You're simplifying it too much anyways, with a wagon on himself CES shouldn't have been pushing for the lynch to change to his -partner- instead of avoiding Benmagery.

Incidentally, if you want to see how bad I am at not bussing my partners there's a newly finished game on sm you can look at, since I know you've already been dipping into my baby pictures.

[Shadoweh]

I don't see how his flip matters to my interactions with other people or their interactions with me? If you're saying you suspect OGML more that's fine, but whether he's town or not I'm still green too.

[Shadoweh]

More pertinent, I'm looking into that hypothetical future where a town flip there happens because I think you would be alive in it to lynch me afterwards. If it doesn't happen then GREAT.

[Shadoweh]

I didn't say that! Just that I would murder you first. And I've been reading the game for a full game day by now, I would appreciate if you'd stop saying that about me. Wasn't, didn't, sure, but am now. By weird scum readings do you mean thinking the scum were town or something else, because if you add in CTD it sounds like you just mean the scum.

[Shadoweh]

If I thought you were obviously town I would probably be scum, I am not very decisive as town <.< If it's not OGML I think it's more likely to be Llamarble then either of you right now. Honestly I would like to just vote and flip to see if I'm worrying over nothing, it would help to know if I actually need to prepare a defense or not. I don't think I will regret it either way.

[Shadoweh]

coughCTDisdeadcough
And Benmage is still a terrible lynch get those words out of your filthy mouth.

I do think you look town, but it's hard to picture this game without you going to LYLO so either you're way off or scum. (You do want to lynch Benmage still so it could just be off..) The bar is going to keep going higher. Unless OGML makes my dreams come true that is.

[Shadoweh]

Saying it's y'all's fault isn't fair, because the same person quickhammered twice, presumably because he thinks we're in a speed game.

Also now that the game is FINALLY OVER I can refer to The Wire as why you should never lynch Benmage ever this game. At the same time as he was run up here on Day 2, he was run up during The Wire. Compare both scenarios: (trigger warning: Benmage language)

FUCK U CDB

unvote vote Benmage

DO YOU THINK I WOULD READ IT IF I FUCKING COULD FUCK YOU

(the player, not the person mith)

How fucking simple it would be for you to rebullet to help me.

But no, You're a fucking dick. I WOULD FUCKING READ IT IF I COULD YOU DUMBASS...

fuck you, this game, fuck it... lynch me then CDB fuck u

Maybe I acted unfavorably. It is a petpeeve of mine when asking simple tasks, and being told to go look them up, as bullshit. Was it not CDB, who kept saying how much he was pressing, Jason D1.. saying look it up, and then I did and there was nothing. Yeah, point. MY POINT is, yes it is important for people to do their own legwork... But look at the person making the request. Clearly if I had the ability to I would.

Anyways I pm'd the mod about my personal life affecting mafia, and apologized for the last post. I don't see a need to mention it here, as it isn't game relevant.

If you think that was an orchestrated use of personal meta... ..

unvote vote CDB

scum is scum. Me first, or him whichever, lynch this scumbag.

(P.S. you said you didn't reference personal meta Benmage :p)

and this was him in this game, which was hard to find because he barely posted:

Did anyone else laugh at what OGML posted as a "case"...??

Okay, so I had little interaction with CTD... So? Guess who else had little interaction with CTD, YOU(OGML). I was reading CTD as town. Wrong obv.

I did call Penguin an easy mislynch, and was right there... check.

I called him a shitty, expendable player. True (see his "case"). He puts that a case against me?!?! I've been in favor of policy lynching atrocious players many a time. Oh right I'm manipulating my meta (we'll get there)

*I'm laughing at town, call to lynch Vi, but then opt to NK instead... and this is me just having a good ole jolly...

Yes I was defending CES, but I'm actually curious to see how he flips.
--He's calling out chainsaw defense preflips

-And I'm manipulating my meta to be lackadasical... ZzZzz I already said not this game. I have too much mafia integrity to be this atrocious. Sure one day, I'll mess it up somewhat... play a little aloof.... but not this lolol... Not where I say I'm not trying, thats like lying to MAFIA(itself) (ohboy this is reading like a lot of wine if I was scum) ***But essentially you have to try as scum. Using RL, and being lethargic is simply not playing the game and an insult to the game. In my mind moreso as mafia. Because as town I can coast a few days, let other plays *perform* and then analyze from there... I don't care if they can't read me because I'm not participating because I'm town! I can't do this strategy as scum, because town must anaylze someones contribution an it is impossible if all they do is coast. Hence you'll never see scum benmage coast. (ATLEAST not in the manner of using RL/Laziness as an excuse) WRITE THIS DOWN... if you see Benmage coasting, and then posting sporadically without complaining about RL or some shit, you just caught me changing said meta. MWAHAHAHA (This will likely bite me in the ass one day, but I plan on a hiatus after this game.. so try and forget it)

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE WHY DO WE HAVE THIS DEAD WEIGHT OGML!??!?!?! So he flips town, we don't lose endgame.. ZzZZZ

@Llamarble, who are the 6 lynch candidates?? (I'm sure you posted it, but please just redo)
-Tammy + Llamarble both voting CES concerns me. Tierce, Tammy, LLamarable, Empire can't all be town. I'm most confident Llamarble is town, I can't tell is Empire buddying me is a scumtell, or the only one here with half a brain. so cheah.

Zach... in what universe could this possible be benmage scum (You're better than that).. Didn't you read WF?. I haven't been trying since D1, so ignore this temporary V/La....

Honestly this is kind of before that happened, since he posted.. once near the actual wagon consolidation, but my point is he didn't -care- if he was lynched in this game, and he cared a whole bunch in The Wire. The irony at the time being I thought the Benmage that was apathetic was scum giving up, and The Wire was the town one gaining motivation. Over time it became clearer that it was the other way around. Even if I can't clear up which person is the scum, since this is heading towards a Deasvail-Benmage-Llamarble LYLO I can at least try to make sure one side isn't hammered.

Sorting between Deasvail and Llamarble has been hell, by the way, since Deasvail has a generally good voting record and was immediately suspicious of Nacho, versus Llamarble who really has been on the scum non-stop regardless of how I feel about his current happy voting spree. I didn't even look into Tammy last night, though rereading Tierce and trying to suspect her takes a special brand of psychotics that watching Higurashi is really helping with. I supose I'll have to reconsideer Tammy before making a conclusion. That's not going to happen tonight though so if MAYBE you could not lynch immediately that would be swell.

[Shadoweh]

Goddamnit Benmage

[Shadoweh]

You want to lynch me because Tammy or Llamarble is scum.
Do you have any idea how idiotic you sound? How about you skip the lynch on me and we go to looking for actual suspects instead?

[Shadoweh]

You had the same excuse for voting OGML too, because he was town and you might miss. When does that stop being an excuse for you? When does the actual Dragon come out?

[Shadoweh]

You aren't obligated to vote anyone. I did figure you were the vig after analyzing the wagons though. Just look at the scum game that Benmage practically played alongside this one first and judge whether it actually reflects his behaviour here before you decide the entire game on PoE.

[Shadoweh]

..Also I just realized you were pretending earlier to think I had your own role when I was run up, jerk.

[Shadoweh]

Alot of people pegged Nacho and CES. It's more important that you finish the job. Llamarble eliminated himself from your pool, so.. why aren't you voting Tammy? Beyond that you would never be able to push a lynch on her today and I'm easier. To me you're chickening out still.

Is any of the above paragraphs related to scumhunting? I have this sneaking suspicion it's a bunch of angry yelling. Deasvail, you know very well I'm not acting like scum. Are you going to say anything besides what you are here? It takes three votes to tango right now and Benmage is only one, even though he should be one of the ones knowing better. If two of you disagree with this we can actually lynch scum today, maybe.

[Shadoweh]

I can't reread Tammy for more then five seconds without wondering what I'm doing with my life. This happened last night too. Instead I think I'll reread all the scum together. If anyone wants to have a conversation about this you could present a case on me like rational mafians instead of voting because it HAS TO BE SHADOWEH OMG.

To answer Tammy's question about what the hell I'm doing, I haven't thought I have a chance at an endgame for at least two days, but luckily my win condition doesn't involve me being alive. Even if I can't convince you to stop voting me, I can try to influence that final day and all it's.. fun. Don't vote Benmage for being a douchebag. Look at his game here, compare it to what he was doing in The Wire. If you still want to vote him afterwards there isn't much I'll be able to do to stop it tomorrow, but I don't think they sound the same.

[Shadoweh]

Not that I can't read Tammy, but that I can't imagine her as scum while reading her. You'll have to wait like a normal person for me to finish my analysis.

[Shadoweh]

You know, I told one of my friends I'd be done reading mafia by now because four hours is ~*~crazy~*~. By the way, you all really like quote strips, right?

And obviously, I don't view my vote as opportunistic at all -- for example, I didn't vote DV because he's an "easy target" (and I'd argue that he isn't an easy target in this roster given that most everyone here knows him and how he plays).

That's my point. I think calling DV's vote on me opportunistic was a mischaracterization on your part (unless you think I'm an easy target for some reason). I'm willing to take it as a poor choice of words at this point though as your contributions apart from this issue have been decent.

unvote, vote: Llamarble

This is the only mention of Deasvail by CTD. It's remarkable in my opinion because every other person who attacked him was met with the hatred of a thousand dying sons, refutings and eventual suspicion heaped on them. Deasvail's vote is whatever.

DV's obviously made up excuse

This is not really a thing that happens, just fyi.

You're both missing the point. I don't want lurking to be rewarding. I don't think you should be able to deflect suspicion simply by not answering. Now penguin_alien has posted, and as I have a stronger scum read I'm happy with changing my vote.

I saw the reasoning you gave. I don't buy it.

I guess I'll dig around for meta.

meta to see if tierce is a sucker for V/LA excuses...?
also what made DV's excuse so fake to you?

(Note: Johhog voted for Deasvail) The first thing both scum do is jump on Johhog for attacking Deasvail. Not proof on its own.

Nacho, what do you think of Johhog's sudden unvote? It seems like he just wasn't paying attention, since I'm pretty sure I mentioned how I'd seen CTD massclaim before a couple of times, and I think he would maybe be more likely to pay attention as scum? Or at least put more effort into making sure what he was saying was backed up.

Not necessarily. I tend to think that mistakes are mistakes and not really indicative of alignment. I do think that him not reading your responses while he was voting penguin for lurking follows pretty nicely with my Johhog as scum train though.

maybe Penguin, but I don't think that's anything more than gut

I don't think penguin is scum, and I think her playstyle sets off gut like crazy. She doesn't post a whole lot, meaning that people who are paranoid about lurkers freak out, and she walls pretty hard, meaning people have a larger tendency to treat her essays and skim them, meaning that they are afraid they won't be able to read her. Criticizing you for not committing enough was a fine point; picking out CES for coasting was something I expected her to do but less likely to do as scum because of no one yelling at him for it, and the Llamarble vote is also for reasoning that I can see her picking up on. Her being "eh, don't really know what's going on" and not being at all concerned about the votes on her is A+ good and not what I expected if she was scum.

I appear to be the only person who saw something in Llamarble giving a pass to one person and not another for the same reason. Whichever. See petsPick for a game where I had a similar amount of joy being in the same thread as Ll.

DV wasn't even being assertive and contentwise he had doubleplusreasons to lie. The only way to get a contradiction out of it is a focus on form and doing no digging.

In Nacho's response to DV he cites Johhog voting DV as a bad thing, to reinforce the mislynch they were pushing for naturally, then when talking about pengu say that critizing DV and picking out CES for coasting are good points. The two points seems to contradict each other. CES is just reinforcing that DV is okay. (I have no idea what doubleplus is suposed to mean, can't you say very good like a normal person?)

Ok, I'm as updated as I can be with my reads and still support a Penguin lynch.

Could we get something more than this?

Deas, what's been going on with you lately?

I'm really sorry, I've been busy/lazy since uni started.
I feel ok with where my reads are at though. (I can never work out whether it's best to be open with them or closed, but if people want them I could probably post them Day 2)

I want them! I'm working on getting mine into something solid right now, so you wouldn't be alone if you decided to post them early.

DV actually posts reads here: #698 After this, Nacho posts his own reads post:

I like DV's play so far, although I expect I'll have a more solid read on him after he posts his reads. I like his N read although that's probably biased from us having the same thought process, and I like the paranoid response to Empire/Tierce attacking him for RVS. I don't like later jump off N, but it comes at a time that doesn't really serve a purpose as scum unless N is scum and he's trying to distance, which I seriously doubt since he's still putting penguin as scum higher than N and he's handing the cred for the change in his read to Empire pretty easily.

As you can see from above, Nacho never mentions it or them again. :V Says he's waiting for them, doesn't edit to reflect that HOW CAN HE POST HIS READS IF THEY'RE ALREADY THERE. This is a pattern that'll become obvious after a few more posts.

Penguin, you could do more to explain those Benmage, Empire, Tammy, Tierce, Vi townreads.

Cogito Ergo Sum--Not wild about him basing a lot of his reasoning off the idea that N, Vi, and I are a scum team, as I know that to be inaccurate. If he'd continued to push me, I'd find it more likely that he's a misguided townie; that he moved on to N and Vi and claims that I confirmed Vi was bussing N (really?) makes it feel like he has an excuse to push me and Vi if scumbuddy N gets run up. His avoiding what I consider to be a bad wagon with CrashTextDummie puts him slightly leaning town depending on how firmly he holds to his pet scum team theory.

Where are you getting the townread from?

DeasVail--Bugs me that he asked me about my reaction to his page one post, then said I'd thought about it too much. I still think that if he wanted it to be worth the confusion, he should have pursued it further, but then I don't have experience with making such moves myself, so it's more a point of interest by this time. Very slight townread, more for the first half of the day than the second.

Again, where does the townread come from?

I really hope he's not this cheekily obvious, asking why pengu thinks both his scum partners are town?

Anyway, I'm not going to spend too much time on this today, so going over ISOs will need to wait

I do want your reads as soon as possible.

This is the first mentiion of DV by either of the scum again, and it's basically the same question as before without acknowledging the original reads in the first place. The next thing Nacho does after this is not mention it and go V/LA for a week. :V Whether he liked the reads DV were posting or not, who knows, he obviously never really cared.

This is a terrible terrible point. Are you serious here? Firstly, I NEVER said I was lost. I said I was struggling in post 254, yet still managed to take several stances. Secondly, the contradiction you imply here is absolute bs, considering post 484 came after twice as many posts as post 254. Struggling on page 11 means I should also be struggling on page 20? No way. Come on now.

You weren't lost, but after 484 you immediately dropped back into the lost persona; you brought up a lot of new suspects after 484, but didn't really follow up on any of them until the recent DeasVail vote, you just kept pushing the CTD-penguin/scum N-town mantra that we heard already.

Nacho is back and attacking Wicked, and again this is the only mention of Deasvail, related to how Wicked is voting him at the moment. x2 chainsaw defense.

Llamarble get to keep their spots in the town pile!

Why?

Deasvail answers why here. Look forward to Nacho never mentioning it again.

Actually, to those on the CES wagon, why him over Nacho?

Why me in the first place?

Note that in between these posts Deasvail has been voting Nacho and saying he's not town for awhile. Yet this is the first time Nacho asks him anything, and it's in the middle of a wallpost to multiple other people.

Why me in the first place?

Pretty much covered in my last post. And no one is really that scummy.
I mean, I really want us to be town together and not lynch each other and stuff, but I kind of think you're scum here. If I'm wrong, can you please show me that I'm just being silly somehow?
And I really don't think Llamarble is scum either.

I can't show you how you're being silly if your case on me is "you're not acting town".

So what should I think then?

So what should I think then?

Something with an actual thought process?

Vote: DeasVail

I was hoping he would respond one more time before I put my vote here, but this feels like a better vote for today.

As some people mentioned, this wass about a day and a half before the day ended, and is pretty much why Nacho got owned as a wagon due to how bad it comes off. He did already have a 3 vote wagon and was CES's counterwagon at the end of the day. I know alot of people have said that this was him trying to push another lolquickwagon at the last minute, but considering how suspicious people were on him I don't think he had a chance of pulling this off with no one else's suport, and he had to have known that.

I mean, I really want us to be town together and not lynch each other and stuff, but I kind of think you're scum here. If I'm wrong, can you please show me that I'm just being silly somehow?

I didn't really like this at all because it seemed like Deas is voting me because I'm not really doing anything townish, which is hypocritical as all hell. The offer to hammer CES is also strange considering with the fixation on me; the timing itself was just weird.

This is him pushing the case, in a wallpost with other people. It's pretty bad reasoning and again no one is going to buy this.

I will at least spare recursiveness and just quote This as Nacho going through Deasvail's posts and finding things wrong with them. Other then Nacho going down like a pile of rocks and CES posting occasionally to say 'oh hey I'm still alive somehow' this is the end of their postings.

In total Nacho and CES are overly protective of Deasvail combined, CES never questions DV about anything, and Nacho just prods him for reads and never looks at him again. It's possible for them to be buddies. The last minute idiot case on DV would have to in that case be Nacho setting up last minute WIFOM by making it look like he totally would have lynched Deasvail at any time. The weirdest part to me is CTD because there's no reason for him to have been nice to Deasvail compared to everyone else who showed suspicion on him. I'm not sure if I'm convinced about this, but I definitely don't have another five hours tonight to look into what they said about Benmage.. or Tammy I guess.

The real problem is every time I passed by a Deasvail post between the scums it was al 'nooo I'm town don't lynch meee plz' but god damnit Deasvail this is WAR! Shine your shoes and get on the battlefield again!

[Shadoweh]

That's shocking, I managed to not screw up quotes once on that, that never happens. VOTECOUNTS

Day 1, Votecount 7

Nachomamma8

(1) -

N

Cogito Ergo Sum

(1) - Tammy

penguin_alien

(1) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

Deasvail (2) -

Konowa

,

Llamarble

Shadoweh (1) -

Wickedestjr

Llamarble

(7) - Benmage,

Empire

, Deasvail,

CrashTextDummie

,

Vi

,

penguin_alien

,

Tierce

Johhog (1) -

Nachomamma8

Empire

(1) - Shadoweh

For

Llamarble

. Unless you believe CTD is the only scum that was pushing you

Day 1, Votecount 31 aka End of Day Votecount

penguin_alien

(9) - Deasvail,

Konowa

, Shadoweh,

Llamarble

,

Wickedestjr

,

Nachomamma8

,

Vi

, Benmage,

Johhog

N (6) -

Tierce

,

CrashTextDummie

,

Empire

,

penguin_alien

, Tammy,

Cogito Ergo Sum

CrashTextDummie

(1) - N

CES commented that the end of day rush on pengu was probably driven by townies, which we can see was a lie thanks to Nacho here.

Day 2, Votecount 8

Vi

(3) - Benmage,

Cogito Ergo Sum

, Tammy

Cogito Ergo Sum

(3) -

Vi

,

OhGodMyLife

,

Tierce

Wickedestjr

(3) - Shadoweh,

Nachomamma8

,

Konowa

Konowa

(2) - Deasvail,

Llamarble

Deasvail (1) -

Wickedestjr

Mid day wagon placements. A common scum vote tactic is two on main wagons and one lounging on the side. Deasvail's vote placement here fits the pattern better.

Day 2, Votecount 15

Vi

(1) - Tammy

Untrod Tripod

(1) - Deasvail

Shadoweh (6) -

Tierce

,

Cogito Ergo Sum

,

Vi

,

Llamarble

,

Untrod Tripod

,

Empire

Benmage (3) -

Nachomamma8

,

OhGodMyLife

, Shadoweh

OhGodMyLife

(1) - Benmage

Little girl screaming position. Deasvail was stating his intent to vote me over Benmage at this point while staying comfy on his seat.

Day 2, Votecount 18

Untrod Tripod

(7) - Deasvail, Tammy,

Zackrulez

,

Tierce

,

Vi

,

Llamarble

, Benmage

Shadoweh (1) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

Benmage (3) -

Nachomamma8

,

OhGodMyLife

, Shadoweh

Cogito Ergo Sum

(1) -

Untrod Tripod

Actual end day wagon. Considering it was a quickwagon I'm not entirely surprised that it was a townie rush and Deasvail was there almost by accident.

Day 3, Votecount 7

Cogito Ergo Sum

(3) - Tammy,

Llamarble

, Shadoweh
Benmage (1) -

OhGodMyLife

OhGodMyLife

(2) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

,

Zackrulez

Nachomamma8

(2) - Benmage, Deasvail

Llamarble

(1) -

Nachomamma8

I'm just posting this to point out that no matter who the last scum is they were bussing by Day 3, at the start of the day.

Day 3, Votecount 15

Cogito Ergo Sum

(3) -

Llamarble

, Shadoweh,

OhGodMyLife

OhGodMyLife

(1) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

Nachomamma8

(6) - Benmage, Deasvail,

Tierce

, Tammy,

Empire

,

Zackrulez

Deasvail (1) -

Nachomamma8

Not voting (0) :

NO ONE

And no one cried a tear.

Day 4, Votecount 7 aka end of Day VC

Cogito Ergo Sum

(5) -

Empire

,

OhGodMyLife

, Benmage, Shadoweh,

Llamarble

Shadoweh (2) -

Tierce

, Tammy
Benmage (1) -

Cogito Ergo Sum

Not voting (1):

Deasvail

Appreciate the vote of confidence there Tammy. I don't think Deasvail even.. posted that day?

Day 5, Votecount 1

OhGodMyLife

(4) - Shadoweh,

Tierce

, Benmage,

Llamarble

Shadoweh (1) -

OhGodMyLife

Not voting (2) :

Deasvail, Tammy

I can't remember him saying this day either. Sorry DV! Considering the overwhelming opinion on OGML I wouldn't be surprised if this was all town either. It's not like we took a long time to talk about it. If I were a wizard I would conjure up some voting statistics that say who the scum are, but instead I'll have to point out that it would be fucking stupid to push the lynch from CES onto myself if I were his scum buddy instead of hammering onto the Benmage train, which would have to be town in that case, or onto UT if CES thought a quickwagon would take off.

Also thanks to Vi and replace all I messed up formatting this alot more then the other post. -.-

[Shadoweh]

Cross-referencing with Nacho indicates they were being hands off with each other until later days when not suspecting each other was impossible with the pools. CES was also defending Benmage though with his meta so..

[Shadoweh]

If I were a wizard I would conjure up some voting statistics that say who the scum are, but instead I'll have to point out that it would be fucking stupid to push the lynch from CES onto myself if I were his scum buddy instead of hammering onto the Benmage train, which would have to be town in that case, or onto UT if CES thought a quickwagon would take off.

I always find it an effective startegy when I'm scum, to highlight an action of mine, and give the "standard operating procedure" scum move... It shows a difference and therefore is suppose to leave a subtle thought in the readers head of "hey this person acts scum this way, and was different here".... its a weak use of meta defense.

I use it as scum. I aint buyin it here... The whole post read heavily IIoA.

I'm glad we've changed so you're actually accusing me of being scum instead of doing it for funsies. I'm not being subtle here, I'm outright telling you this would be an idiot move for scum to do. It's not based on playstyle since the lynch moving onto me had nothing to do with me, it's logic based on voting patterns, you know, that logix thing you've been throwing out the window to lynch people for being 'weak'.

I'm also not you. But I'm glad you still feel free to ignore my posts and sum them up as IIoA so you can continue voting someone you admitted you don't think is scum. Note that glad in this case means I want to strangle you with my bare hands.

[Shadoweh]

GOD DAMNIT BENMAGE I AM NOT A DUDE. And I can't buddy you to win if I'm scum, you would have to be the other mislynch. It would be far easier to convince Tammy to mislynch you then to rely on you not voting for me after you've been hating on me for a few days. Being sleepless in YOLOville makes me cranky but seriously YOU'RE WELCOME YOU UNGRATEFUL DIIIIIIIIIIIIICK.

[Shadoweh]

It depends on what game you ask. >_> I've had a total of one good scum game on this site. I've always found that people disagree with me when I bring up the reasons I shouldn't be scum, can't imagine why but people just don't think like I do. I've already told you my reasons.

[Shadoweh]

Most of CTD's poking at me was in response to me yelling at him. I wouldn't really call it that, he just wanted me to go away. I also had town reads on both the scum and Nacho was heavily buddying up to me, so he could have been taking cues from them. I haven't had time to reread Benmage yet, and having just worked and bussed for 12 hours I'm going to put it off to tomorrow barring someone getting bored and speedlynching me, in which case I will try to race Faradaywhile rereading.

Also I cut myself while opening a can of pop. :< Every word hurts to type I HOPE YOU LIKE THEM

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh why was the foremost thing in your mind at the start of d5 following a scumflip to call me a tool?
Also the "I'd have already killed so and so" from Shadoweh is a bit fudged since there aren't really any ambiguous / weird kills.
And Shadoweh quoted the wagon on me immediately before CES jumped on, making it look more incriminating for the other two.

Because you quickhammered him while half the players were asking for time to post? Now we have all the time in the world, I'm sure they appreciate being restricted to talking to the dead.
CES's vote never shows up on the votecount, the next one was taken after your wagon dissolved. I supose I could have added it onto the votecount manually. I wouldn't care about a vote that late anyways when the point is the line of green at the beginning.
There haven't been any weird kills to -you-. I would have kept Empire alive because he wasn't saying nasty things about me. I wouldn't have bothered to kill Zach because he wasn't half-involved in the game. I have a pretty basic flowchart of Said I'm scum + Considered Town ---> Kill it dead.

[Shadoweh]

He did flip scum though; I'd expect :some: relief that the wagon you were pushing instead of Nacho's turned out to be equally good.

It wasn't my wagon. Until the next day after rereading flips I wasn't even sure it was a good wagon beyond how Vi vs CES felt, I continually read him as town on his own. It's also hard to celebrate when your friends are still calling you scum afterwards. Kind of like standing outside the window peeking on this great party everyone's having and people keep shutting the blinds when they notice you're there.

Town
Benmage
DeasVail
OhGodMyLife
Probtown:
TET

PoE
Shadoweh
Llamarble
Cogito Ergo Sum
^This to win.

So yeah... CES to win.
I don't think N, just calls his partner, Nacho scum so abundantly the way N did... look at N's iso. Plus there's OGML's atrocious stubborn but genuine pursue of myself.
PoE is raping CES... if he flips town, maybe TET will wake up to Llamarable.

Unvote vote CES

(

MOD

when did CES v/la end/is due a prod? Can we request one... since he's been gone.... but is now back... but hasn't posted in over 6 days.)

You have one scum in your PoE, one PR, and one unflipped person (who is town). Your go-to person is the same person Nacho kept going to, i.e. Llamarble. And claiming credit for calling that a person you helped lynch as town. :V Why are you clapping yourself on the back for this? You woke up and started lining up scum lynches at the same time everyone else did. Acting like it was all you just makes you look like a douche. This entire page is you essentially spamming reasons everyone else is dumb.

[Shadoweh]

Also I suspect he unvoted CES to get someone else on the wagon so he could quickhammer it, and didn't really care about you, Benmage. Kind of like what happened.

Benmage would fit as a partner given OGML's genuine disgust.

Explain this?

benmage is a great scum player and instead of doing anything, is lurking the days away
OGML is frustrated as a result

That sounds more complicated than is likely here; I'd go with the more straightforward option that OGML thinks partnerbenmage is playing poorly and being obvious (although there could be an element of benmage being more active in the QT to it). Disgust was maybe a bad choice of word because that specifically makes more sense with OGML attacking benmagetown; really the focus of that sentence was "genuine".

The scum having conversations in thread about how scummy their partner is would be kind of weird regardless you know.

[Shadoweh]

It's worrying to think that DV would kill a bunch of people with solid town reads on him. But I really don't think it's Benmage, and I can't think of how it could be Tammy, beyond the paranoid twitches that keep me up at night. I recall DV talking about how he would kill Kuribo even though he had him as solid town in The Wire because it's not what people would expect. I supose He could have been speaking from experience.

I'm getting tired of being the only one in the votecounts anyways, and I might as well put my vote where my mouth is. BANZAI

##Vote: Deasvail

[Shadoweh]

also even if town Deasvail shouldn't be allowed in LYLO with Benmage again :p I don't know how DV managed to get his entire foot in his mouth there but apparently it happened

[Shadoweh]

If there is a tomorrow I seriously doubt I'd get to be paranoid about Tammy anyways. I think everyone would be busily falling over themselves to make fried chicken and no one would be able to tell who the scum quicklynching was.

[Shadoweh]

That's what I said was possible. His case was bad, 1 and a half days before deadline, and he already had a 3 person wagon by the time he posted it, with certain people (cough you) looking at him from the sides. He'd been voting Llamarble for awhile and literally no one but Benmage was willing to follow him onto that wagon, and that day even Ben was busy voting Nacho non-stop.

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh, are you saying that the 'speaking from experience' was from this game or other games?

I am saying that when you were arguing about what nightkills you would make for the WIFOM in The Wire, you might have been speaking from experience due to the nightkills you were making in this game.

But I am town and I ask that instead of focusing on the fact that people with townreads on DV died, actually look at the townreads. Empire especially can actually read me really well and is probably screaming at everyone in the dead QT right now. Well maybe not, but still... he read me as town and no offence, but just take my word for it that he's the best at reading me and you should follow him. Ok, that sounds all manipulative, but it is true, and a quick look at some games could probably confirm that.

Do you think you could link some of these games maybe? You didn't have trouble finding the Meta of Death (tm) in The Wire. You sound kind of like a chicken here Deasvail. You're a chickeny scum too if I remember correctly. If you can prove me wrong (before Benmage quickhammers you even though he thinks you're town) I will gladly listen to reason.

I mean, just the recent delay in sorting out my Benmage/Shadoweh reads is something that probably wouldn't happen if I was scum. It's much easier for me to just make up reasoning as scum than actually read people and obviously being active is better in this scenario.

I'm not sure that it would have been from your perspective. Until later in the day everyone was talking about the Shadoweh or Benmage show. If I Were You as Scum(tm) I probably would have lurked it out. Do you normally easily come up with good reasoning as scum?

[Shadoweh]

##Unvote

b/c I hate Benmage

[Shadoweh]

Cut: The opposite of that is why. You and Llamarble shouldn't be allowed to play with the big people toys. Considering you said you would hammer DV tomorrow it takes a special leap of logic to decide that me removing the ability for you to get bored and do so means I'm scum, instead of me taking a nap and building a giant fort made of dirt. I'm certainly worried about losing.

This is moderately useful meta. I'm going to ignore the game you replaced into since replacing in on Day 2 skips the hardest scum day for adjusting. Also I haven't slept but the coffee aand these BLOCKS BLOCKS BLOCKS tell me I'm fine to be awake so! Luckily the only thing I seem to like more then planting trees on top of trees is the sound of my own typing. Here's what Empire said about your meta anyways, right?

DV: I find that DV’s a pretty tricky one to figure out as I think he plays a capable scum game – that said, based off my (very rudimentary) understanding of his meta, he tends to be very tryhard as scum and I’m not getting that impression this game at all. I think he’d have been more involved with his reasoning for suspecting Ludi/Herodotus in #40 as scum. I also liked his criticism of Herodotus in #40 since I got the impression from Herodotus’ reasoning (see below). Also, the other less pretty head is telling me that #30 is typical town DV – post something to draw attention to himself as a way to dig into the game and gauge reactions. His follow-up on Ludi in #40 (“ML, why did you FoS me before attempting to understand my thoughts, assuming I did not have a reason to vote for Herod?”) reinforces that idea.

I understand what Empire means when comparing this to your scum game though. You're really relaxed in your posts as opposed to how you're immediately on the attack in Castle Zar. It can't have helped that you started Zar by calling Empire scummy for looking for towntells and deciding he was scummy for buddying a super weak player. :V At the start of this game you voted CTD for attention grabbing and then went after Empire for taking the bait. Mmm. I don't really think you sound as antagonistic as you do in Castle Zar compared to this game.

You know, SH is a pretty bad game to count as meta too since this appears to be Sherlock Holmes in the Palace and you're effectively the informed scum team and the scum is uninformed town. For some reason you were playing it like normal mafia so I will accept this essay but one more and I'm taking you off the case DV. I'll go look at Mafiastuck after this.

Tangentally related and new paranoia point:

UNVOTE: penguin_alien
VOTE: DeasVail
For pretty much the reasons Tierce outlined, even if she bizarrely accepted DV's obviously made up excuse. Still trying to wrap my mind around that, btw. Haven't played much with Tierce, but it feels surreal that she would accept that as town. I guess I'll dig around for meta.

I'm pretty sure that saying that I've seen CTD play before (he asks for a massclaim every game) means something was up?

Oh fuck, didn't know that. I fail.
UNVOTE: DeasVail

The Vi wagon is meh. I think it looks like normal Vi. I prefer this one.
VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
Playing very differently from Team Mafia, where he was town.

Wickedestjr is sooo town it burns. I could get behind a CTD lynch though. I think he's pretty clearly trying to stay out of the limelight by asking pseudo-scumhunting questions, that hardly can be used to actually lure out the scum.
UNVOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum
VOTE: CrashTextDummie

Yeah can't imagine why he died. CES was trying to push the angle that he died because he outted himself as a PR. So looking to see what Benmage vs Deasvail said about that:

Ok, I'm here! And hopefully I'll be more active, but I can't say for sure. Sorry about all this.

Anyway, I'm not going to spend too much time on this today, so going over ISOs will need to wait (I might go over CTD's actually, we'll see).

First, I think I'll have Konowa as a scumread. Basically I've been waiting for him to actually care about me accusing him of making up the reason for calling Tierce town after he made such a fuss over me asking for Empire's thoughts instead of his (which was also just weird by the way) but he hasn't. Why make such a fuss over it if he doesn't actually want to respond to my accusation?

Also, I actually think CES's attack on Vi is pretty town, and thinking about it I may have Vi as a scumread now too.

Here's the thing. I picked up on Johhog's softclaim

and I think I'm usually pretty clueless about these things, so I think it's pretty likely that Vi would have especially if he was actually interested in reading Johhog as CES said (I actually don't remember this so I'm just trusting CES for now). Also, 756 feels pretty forced and "look how town I am".

vs

I'll read tomorrow.

:V Yeah Benmage cared super hard. Also let me sum up Deasvail's stance on Nacho during Day 2: "I think Nacho looks suspicious vote konowa" Also:

Unvote, Vote: CES

OGML what happened to benmage?

LA for about a week.

plz keep tunneling on the townie Benmage instead of mah buddy k

KAPOW

##Vote: Deasvail

[Shadoweh]

ps Tammy
hey Tammy

Also you are forgiven but I'm watching you for Day 5 mind changes. O_O

IT WAS DAY 4 BUT IT WAS CLOSE ENOUGH TAMMY. I AM THAT PSYCHIC.

[Shadoweh]

Eh, I think CES / Nacho would be choosing the kills given reputations and so on.
And I think Johhog was a let's eliminate PRs kill since various high priority targets like Tierce were still around.

Possibly, but him pressuring 2/3, possibly all three of the scum team members, and the traitor, can't have hurt. It's not like they were 100% sure he was a PR. I didn't say DV would be choosing the kills regardless. It would depend on what those two thought was more important.

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh looks townie too. This is why you left me alive isn't it? Because you knew I'd go indecisive mode and think everyone alive is town.

Don't look at me, if you really think I'd leave you alive over Tierce.. :p

Benmage, kindly take your thought process and shove it up your rear end.

[Shadoweh]

Uh, no obviously the traitor wouldn't. I'm saying it's similar to why I died in The Wire, because no one would suspect Johhog getting shot and because he had good reads.

[Shadoweh]

The best way to not be lynched is to gain your bearings and attack somewhere. If you're town you'd be doing a disservice to die quietly. Also don't listen to anything Benmage says, he's demotivational in a can.

[Shadoweh]

You know, Llamarble is right there, he could unvote if he wanted to. :V

##Unvote

I don't mind right now because I think this is actually a good vote. I'm filled with these weird sensations of sarcasm, wit and something I think is called 'joy' towards playing mafia!

Cut: I was going to unvote before you did that. I don't make idiot deals with votes.

[Shadoweh]

I'm also half-asleep and distracted by World of Darkness so if you want something I might not answer right away. Do you have an objection that I can give a rational reply to or are you just having last minute panic attacks here?

[Shadoweh]

Tammy, I would appreciate if you stopped voting me so the person I'm pushing as scum doesn't have the hammer, kthx. Can you stop sounding paranoid and present something usable? You were screaming at Benmage to let you read the game. Just read the game and decide what you want to do from there. What you're doing now isn't productive.

[Shadoweh]

This is a prod dodge, to celebrate actually being able to sleep in and also sleeping on keyboard yes
Not that I haven't read what Deasvail posted, but I will answer when I can brain good

[Shadoweh]

Deasvail who would you have left alive here at the end?

Shadoweh you keep saying you would have killed me first. Why?

Kind of busy and literally woke up thirty minutes ago literally don't have time to read anything yet, but to answer this because at the time you would have been the person I saw as most likely to not stop being on me. Kind of like how you've decided I'm the worst right now? (The thing about Tierce was a joke about who would be worth more entertainment value)

..Are we talking about there only being three scum now? What the fuck kind of koolaid do you guys get off on when I'm asleep seriously?

[Shadoweh]

Mmm, you're talking about magical autowin lynching again. Right now I'm stalling becausse Deasvail's posst isn't what I would expect from him as scum.. at all.. and I'm just going in circles because there aren't other options. But it doesn't look like anyone else is going to turn this car around so back to the reading board. i'm jusst missing anotheer point of reference.

Ben: I'm pretty sure people answered the question about the cop earlier in that Goons don't have Vanilla in their name and the cop worked that way in some other game. You would know that if you'd ever read anything. And yes, it does read as if you're trying for Refuge in Audacity. Your plan for Tammy auto-winning also auto-wins you, you know.

[Shadoweh]

God damn I really want you to be scum Benmage. I really want it and it's just not happening. There is just no way you and The Wire are the same Benmage. It's not even just the middle game reaction or the difference in the end game spamming (which you are mimicing right now and should stop) it's even the language between. It makes me sick to my stomach how impossible it is for me to believe you're scum. Are you just trying to annoy the everloving hell out of Tammy until she votes you or do you actually have a point in trying to belittle her until she goes insane? I was doing it because I suspected her.

[Shadoweh]

Tammy did you know when you're scum you sound like you're permenantly tipsy?

##Vote: Deasvail

Sorry buddy but you're the only one who sounds close to scum you. Well maybe Llamarble does because I haven't looked for one of his scum games but I -think- I can trust him on this one. Benmage doesn't sound British and Tammy doesn't sound wishy washy enough. I guess in theory we'd still win even if you doofuses throw me off the bus again, but I said that about OGML too and I'd really like for that wagon dodge to actually last instead of being delaying the inevitable.

[Shadoweh]

And I wish it didn't have to be this waaaay, quick trade role pm's with Benmage, Faraday won't notice he's too drunk. Then we can all have a happy ending!

[Shadoweh]

PS: I would say something in my defense from these terrible accusations of my character, except there's still no reason being presented to vote me besides 'let's wrap this game up and vote Shadoweh/whoever for the win!'. It's frustrating that I'm the only one who seems to be having a conversation with people here.

[Shadoweh]

Faraday what the hell am I even watching here. ?_? You just know you can't come close to imitating my AMAZING POSTING SKILL.

Not that this caused me to miss sleep, or panic, or miss sleep and panic, and read way more about Benmage then I ever wanted to know. x.x Tammy, I was reading Team Mafia and Lovers Mafia. And for Deasvail I just read him as a kitty and reminded myself I can't read him so. But hooray!

[Shadoweh]

It helped that you had a concurrent scum game in which you were a completely different person. >_>