Micro 134 (F11) (Game Over!)

[Sotty7]

Vote: Sixty

Simply mad you got the first post so quick.

[Sotty7]

I already feel out of the loop in this game.

That would be a ballsy move for ScumJason, lets see what he comes back with. Right now, I'm not buying it.

Why would Rach have input on the hydras beyond "oh there are two hydras in the game, fancy that?"

I take it Josh is a quick hammer waiting to happen?

[Sotty7]

I feel like I'm heading way too far into tinfoil theory and it's only fucking page 2.

Pretty much this.

I do like that I am basically staring into your thought process though, so carry on.

[Sotty7]

Fair enough. We shall see what he posts when he comes back.

[Sotty7]

I know this sounds like a trivial, but can you explain how exactly do you feel out of the loop? Don't you know most of the people in this game?

Mostly you and sixty going at it like an old couple in their rocking chairs next to the fire. I think you guys play too many games together. But been there done that.

Scum team is Nacho-Josh by the bye.

Thanks!

Unvote, Vote: Nacho

Four is town, D+C are probably town and Jason is likely town too. Maybe this will be easy.

[Sotty7]

sick

stuff when less sick

[Sotty7]

Sotty, why do you think I'm town? I'd like to see more of your analysis. Also, can you explain why Jason is town?

Tone and gut is all I got. I just don't see scum arguing with Rach the way you did. Though it does always make my skin crawl when people ask "why do you think I am town?" but I get the question. I like trusting my early reads, they often turn out to be right.

I'm revoking Jason's town read now actually. I think I pulled the trigger too easy there. Leaning scum.

I am sheeping CES because I'm full of cold and can't really formulate much of an opinion right now outside a couple of reads and sheeping CES is a great move in my situation. Expect more of an actual response over the weekend when hopefully I am better.

[Sotty7]

Tone and gut is all I got. I just don't see scum arguing with Rach the way you did.

Actually

... This is an instance in which his indignation had

nothing

to do with his alignment, just that he thought he was being misrepresented. Even scum can get angry if they think they are being portrayed in a way they do not deserve, so we don't see that RachMarie/FourTrouble interaction pointing to FourTrouble-Town in any manner. It's a person-matter, not an alignment-matter.

I'll take another look. I take it you have a scum read of Four?

Sotty, am I imagining that you downplayed CES's play in Sherlock Mafia?

Yup you're imagining it. Just wanted his slot lynched is all. CES is a good player and I learn from my lessons. I would have sheeped Vi, but I didn't really like the Puppy's first few posts, but it did get better later. Meh.

[Sotty7]

"I don't like to self meta, so let me self meta." <--- That made me lol

I feel a lot better today so I am going to wade into this game and see what I can see.

[Sotty7]

Yes, jason, let's put an hydra of two good players (whom you have seen as Town before) at L-1 in a game with Josh Lyman, because that's a really bright idea.

So part of the reason I gave Jason a town read for his lynch-1 move was because of this reaction from Sixty. It just rubs me all the wrong way, even more so now Josh has basically come out and said he's not a quick hammerer. What exactly were you getting at with his point Sixty? It feels very much like an attempt to swat Jason down without actually engaging him, undermining him even. So what you're a hydra of two "good" players? Why does that make you RVS wagon immune?

I just hate this whole thing.

I'm waiting for the next sign of the Apocalypse right now. Empire appears to be the same alignment we are and Town. Obviously this means there is something very wrong with the universe and my luck is about to run out somehow.

Just because you keep repeating that you are town, doesn't make it so.

Thanks for changing CES, it is too early for a lynch, and I have played with FT before it would not surprise me if he came in and hammered without paying attention. I don't know Josh, but I gather from what was said that he too tends to derp.

Besides Nacho needs to get in here with more than just an RVS vote.

Echoing Sixty's 29 but with a different player as the potential day crasher. Hmm.

Rach is working super hard to post in a game without actually giving much content. I don't care about meta reviews, what is going on in this game? Her whole interaction with Four over his potential quick hammer is so vague. Post 55 is Rach basically saying she has seen a quick hammer happen, but not one from Four? I am pretty confused by what she is getting at with this whole thing and why she threw Four's name into the mix.

Because I have played many times with Nacho, I will over time have a better chance of pegging him, while I do not really know Josh so going with CES on that. I think if CES turns out to be wrong on the scum team, the consequences for Town are less disastrous mislynching Josh than mislynching Nacho.

Defaults to CES
Doesn't actually seem to have a scum read of either player
Talks about mislynching in a reasonable manner

H-A-T-E this.

vote: Josh

yup, that was the reaction to my post I was looking.

Someone comes in auto wanting the lynch without question or hesitation, and has since said 0 about it when it died down.

This is scummy why? What about others reactions?

FT I am not defending Nacho, I do not give him a free pass here. However given more time I can peg Nacho's alignment better. While Josh definitely seems scummy. CES is a very good player look at this game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21878 Bonus you get to see me playing as Town and Tiece as Town as well.

At the point you made this post what was scummy about Josh?

Tone and gut is all I got. I just don't see scum arguing with Rach the way you did.

Actually

... This is an instance in which his indignation had

nothing

to do with his alignment, just that he thought he was being misrepresented. Even scum can get angry if they think they are being portrayed in a way they do not deserve, so we don't see that RachMarie/FourTrouble interaction pointing to FourTrouble-Town in any manner. It's a person-matter, not an alignment-matter.

I still disagree with this. Rach came off looking a lot worse in my opinion.

Unvote, Vote: Rach

Minimal (READ: almost no) actual game content or explanation of her reads. Lots and lots of meta of other games though. Clearly active lurking.

I kinda wanted to put my vote on the Puppy but only held off because Empire seems to be saying the obnoxious town thing is a common town meta? I kinda hate that but will have to look because I'm finding it extremely fake and crappy. Also spotting some links to Rach in there. Another thing that is bugging me is that I'm not reading a lot of Vi's posts in the hydra. Am I right with that?

D+C, Four, CES are my current town reads in that order. Nacho can be slightly leaning town for now, we'll see how he goes. Josh is null, which he needs to change. Jason is leaning scum. I see a lot of posturing and not a lot of substance.

[Sotty7]

Where is the obv town. I'm dead serious.

[Sotty7]

D+C is town because I like their pushes. CES can be town until I decide otherwise, he's hard to read and I explained my four vote.

You're vote on me is because I suspect you, I am sure if I said you were town like others this vote wouldn't have happened.. That is pretty damn terrible and makes me sad.

[Sotty7]

four vote = four read.

This is what happens when I read stupid votes on me that make me mad. Always preview...

[Sotty7]

Also also, this head didn't see you having any problem with the Town obnoxiousness coming from it in Sherlockafia.

I don't remember it being this bad, but to be fair I checked out of that game towards the end. But if it is as strong there I will reconsider my read, I'll go ISO now.

Also also also, this head is increasingly curious as to why you seem to find it troublesome that the head who has

more

problems faking it as scum is the one who is posting prolifically.

I don't care for your meta, I want to play with the head I have more experience reading. I don't see an issue with that.

And you just accused us of OMGUS. I need the other head online so we can share the bowl.

Well if you want to elaborate on that vote go ahead, I'm going on what I see and I see no reason outside I suspect you and you are obv town.

Debate me on Four, you have a scum read yes? Can you detail why? Also what is your opinion of my Rach vote?

[Sotty7]

So a brief skim of Sherlock I see no "phew I'm so happy I'm town" "look at me obvtowning in this thread" etc.

I see a lot of good scum hunting and reasoning with no actual reference to yourself. Am I missing it? It is also somewhat confusing considering this is a hydra of you and Empire and neither of you sigg'ed and now you're both in this game under different hydras.

But yeah, pinpoint if I am missing something obvious, but the play here compared to there is a lot more forced and fake imo.

[Sotty7]

We are very okay with the explanations of reads and votes we have given and not given so far, thank you muchly. Keep posting like scum, it's fun to watch.

It would be awesome if you stop ignoring my actual questions and tone down the rhetoric. I am much more willing to listen to CES's read about you at this point, than you if you are going to keep posting this garbage. My fuse is short when it comes to this kind of play.

*breath*

I do appropriate the quotes however, as they are deeper in the game than where I was just looking. I don't think they are the same level of annoyance, but point taken, I'm willing to put this down to play style difference.

Now how about you pretend for one second that you're a slot that is hard to read and tell me all about your scum read of Four so I can see where you are coming from?

[Sotty7]

Argh.

Maybe I am still sick I can't seem to make a post without a glaring error. Pretty sure you get the gist though

[Sotty7]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22202 Newbie 1246 I replaced in for Gen Wolf, partly because I wanted to play with Sotty. I was VT in that game.

Why did you post this?

[Sotty7]

1) Which "pushes" have we made that you like?

2) So, um...CES is not null, but your third strongest town read solely because...you can't read CES?

3) Why didn't you mention Sixty's reaction to jason's L-1 vote at the time, if it was a major factor in your jason town read? How does that even make any sense? (jason is town because you don't like a post Sixty made after his vote?)

1) Maybe pushes was the wrong word, but I did like your points on Four when Sixty disagreed with you. Overall both yours and Empire's posts feel town, it's not going to get much deeper than that right now. I just like how you both feel.

2) Pretty much. That's how I deal with CES otherwise I pretty much want to lynch him all the time. It also means I don't have a whole lot of town reads, but then this is a smaller game so I wasn't expecting that anyway. Just would have made things easier.

3) Because it wasn't something I could put into words at the time. I was just reacting to what I saw. It wasn't until I re-read that it triggered and I understood what I didn't like. I had mentioned not liking Sixty's opening, that works into that whole thing. I still do not like the privileged townie they are trying to play I think it goes against the spirit of the game (get me) but whatever. I don't think I have ever played with Tierce outside that one Sherlock game. Vi should post more and I might feel better.

[Sotty7]

Oh, another thing is I really liked Empire's opening few posts against Sixty. I liked his pushing and his reasoning for why he took that route.

[Sotty7]

I kinda wanted to put my vote on the Puppy but only held off because Empire seems to be saying the obnoxious town thing is a common town meta? I kinda hate that but will have to look because I'm finding it extremely fake and crappy.

I/Mina said that about Tierce repeatedly calling herself obvtown. But Empire is convinced that Sixty is town (and that "Keep posting like scum, it's fun to watch" would never, ever come from scum!Tierce), so you can take his word for it.

So I'm not insane. Good to know.

How extensive is Empire's meta of Tierce? I don't need links but a rough number would be good and his average success rate of reading her.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, just read this (+ the fact that we've hydra'd together twice + she's one of the few that have seen that rare thing called Empire as scum.)

Point taken.

[Sotty7]

I'm not as scientific as you when it comes to breaking down meta, but the reasoning comes down to the fact he isn't actually doing anything in this game. He came in with a typical ill thought out Jason townie gambit but then there was extremely little follow up. The vote on Josh just seemed like a cop-out and he gave no reads on anyone else outside Four. Jasonscum will lurk if you let him, he will give minimal information. I know he is in a bunch of games right now but I need to see a hell of a lot more to decide which way my read falls. This is why he is a weak scum read and not an actual vote, I need him to come in and actually post in the game, I need to interact with him but there is nothing yet.

Are you going to tell me that you have a town read of his slot right now?

[Sotty7]

Can we just cut though the crap and get your scum reads and reasons for why? That would be most excellent.

[Sotty7]

We were caught up in the heat of the moment when we voted Sotty. Let's correct that.

You're still doing it wrong.

[Sotty7]

Why are you voting for Nacho?

And seriously Rach, you are holding up the game, why is it taking you so long to post scum reads?

[Sotty7]

You're activity is barely a shade above Josh's at this point. You should try and fix that.

[Sotty7]

jason, are you saying that Sotty is town because she suspects you based on an actual case instead of your lack of activity?

Seems to be his line. He makes this assumption a lot, but I find Jason scummy for his lurking regardless of my alignment. Pretty sure I don't like him using it now as a way to keep my vote off him despite him doing jack and shit in this game.

My patience with both him and Rach is running super thin.

Speaking of Rach, am I barking up the wrong tree completely there? What's your opinion?

[Sotty7]

I guess I just don't see the point of ISOing everyone in the game before providing content when we are so early in. Just feels like hard stalling.

[Sotty7]

Unvote

Not sure if it is because it is too early in the morning but the D+C v Whiskers battle kinda went over my head. I'll be back later with a vote once I am actually awake and functioning.

[Sotty7]

I got distracted. Be back tonight.

[Sotty7]

Hey Whiskers, who else is a scum read outside Rach?

I'll be back in a little bit once I have nom'ed pizza.

[Sotty7]

We have the same reads near on. I pretty much dislike this game because people shit on my scum reads and tell me they are town and I'm getting zero traction anywhere. I feel lost.

I was tempted to vote you because of D+C but I can't bring myself to do it because we are one in this game. It would be like voting myself.

I'm gonna read the last couple of pages again and see if I get swayed by anything. I also need to look back into Nacho. I remember him posting but not actually scum hunting anywhere.

[Sotty7]

To answer your question, you'd have an added incentive to vote RachMarie and push a new mislynch option if your partner was one of the popular suspects (whereas otherwise, you might hop onto Nacho's or jason's wagons). It's not conclusive, since if you're partners with someone like Sotty, you have more leeway to vote creatively.

Wouldn't Whiskers get just as much heat if he did just jump on one of the popular wagons? This seems like a damned if you damned if you don't move.

Whiskers, did you read the game and vote or did you ISO Rach and vote? I ask because I don't know how you couldn't have missed Sixty claiming Josh was a quick hammer threat.

Also, I'm totally happy to vote and lynch jason, and I'm very solidly null on Nacho. And even better, I voted Rach over jason because jason had more support. Why shouldn't I want my scum reads to both be viable wagons? Then, no matter which gets lynched, I'm happy about it.

I'm not sure this actually makes sense the more I read it. You didn't vote Jason because you wanted Rach's wagon to be viable? How does that help the town? Also, why is your vote still on Rach even after I have unvoted?

Post 293 makes no sense either. Sixty and Rach basically did the same thing (signaling out a different player for potential "poor" play) and you talk about it not being an accusation? What? I'm not getting your point here.

So so far, we're lynching lurkers.

Rach last posted in thread: 4 days 1 hour ago

Okay. I get the Whiskers hate now.

[Sotty7]

Posting from my phone to mention that Nacho has basically stopped posting ever since we started piling on Whiskers.

Eh.

There is nothing earth shattering in his ISO, but would ScumNacho really talk me down from Rach? Seems counterintuitive to his potential scum needs at this point in the game.

[Sotty7]

Very tempted to vote Whiskers right now, josh was meh, whiskers done little to convince me that kitty is a soft kitty....

Vote: Jason

[Sotty7]

I get what you are saying, I am going to chew it over for a little bit.

[Sotty7]

Never been quite so happy to see a dead puppy.

CES is one way to look at this and he has moved to more to the null side of things. Not ready to vote, mostly because Sixty's death instantly wants me to reevaluate my D+C town read.

Jason is town.

Vote: Syryana

[Sotty7]

You could be scum?

[Sotty7]

lol read the post again. (HINT: i was talking about CES)

You could be scum?

Te D+C ISO just reaffirms my good feelings about you but that Sixty kill really kinda makes me wanna lynch you. How comfortable are you playing scum? I already know Mina is an evil genius at heart, but I'm curious about Empire.

[Sotty7]

If you answer the meta drunk and I like what I see I will instantly vote CES.

I'm going to instantly assume you can't understand because you are drunk and not because my post was that confusing, but I have been know to mess my wording up so I'll break it down for you.

The Sixty kill is WTF and I can only really see it benefiting you as Tierce and Empire seem to be from the same mafia family. When I am scum in games with people that know me well I will, nine times out of ten, kill them first because they know me so well and I would forever be wondering when they will bust me. Sixty did little to nothing in the game, even more so after they started to sheep you. So I simply don't get that kill at all. I know I was ready to be all up in their shit again (and promptly be ignored) but they died so it's thrown my opening off kilter. Only part of me wants to lynch you, I think it's my paranoia, sooth it.

I'm voting for Syryana because that slot is now my top scum read with Sixty's death.

So no I wouldn't be voting for CES if Sixty wasn't killed, but I am interested in reading your newsletter to see which way to go.

[Sotty7]

Pretty sure we're dealing with Mina. ( <3 )

POE suggests the scum are in: CES, Syryana and Nacho.

Why wouldn't I want to vote CES, I have town reads everywhere else.

...Are you sure you're not drunk? I'm being very clear with where I'm at.

[Sotty7]

You just literally said you wanted to lynch D&C. Pretty sure I'm not hallucinating that.

*sigh*

It is a fickle lynch want, in that I have no points outside the wifom that is the night kill which isn't strong enough to put you out of my town reads because of your strong work yesterday.

Why exactly has jason become town overnight?

Because I said so.

By the way, an answer to the posts we wrote before the threadlock would be nice.

I forgot about that stuff. I'll have a look.

[Sotty7]

Sotty:
Why did you feel the need to answer the above question before jason did? Also:
3) Why didn't you mention Sixty's reaction to jason's L-1 vote at the time, if it was a major factor in your jason town read? How does that even make any sense? (jason is town because you don't like a post Sixty made after his vote?)

You answered the first part (rushing to get this in before the lock, so not going to link it). But that still doesn't explain how Sixty's vote would remotely affect how you'd read jason.

First part is something that bugs me about Jason, so I spoke about it. I don't think my answering of the question helped him at all.

Second part, why wouldn't it? Jason makes move, sixty reacts poorly and attacks Jason in a noneffective way. Makes me think they aren't scum together. Sixty's move is scummier than Jason's therefore Jason = Town Sixty = Scum

[Sotty7]

*sigh*

It is a fickle lynch want, in that I have no points outside the wifom that is the night kill which isn't strong enough to put you out of my town reads because of your strong work yesterday.

Basically it makes me not want to swallow every word you say as the truth, but it doesn't mean I am going to throw my read completely out of the window. You are still in my town pile, just no longer top of the mountain.

I have asked you to convince me to vote CES with you and instead of doing that you have basically given me a reason NOT to vote him (HE'S A POLICY LYNCH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD LOL!!11! ^.^). Why would you do this?

[Sotty7]

Sigh, Mina's been trolling.

Why do you say this?

[Sotty7]

Don't worry I figured her out when she was all taunting CES.

[Sotty7]

How certain are you re: your town read of Jason, Sotty?

bout 90%.

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Gonna need way more than this.

[Sotty7]

I get the feeling he skipped over a lot. And if he did read everything, he's clearly not putting any effort into finding scum, just going for an easy target with no reasoning whatsoever. Plus it doesn't help your lynch was given approval by Dazed and Confused.

Can you explain how CES is an easy target?

[Sotty7]

Sotty-Jason makes a surprising amount of sense. You're going to have to elaborate on that town read, Sotty.

It just hit me like a ton of bricks when night came in that I had Jason read wrong. I need to double check something about his scum meta but other than that there is nothing to really elborate. If you find him scummy for lack of posting I suggest you look though all of his games right now. If there are other reasons, lay them out and I'll listen but the one scummy thing I have heard is his lynch-1 vote on Sixty and that's still not scummy for me. So if it is anything else then lay it out.

More when I have eaten.

[Sotty7]

Vote: jasonT1981

Sotty-Jason. I don't think CES is scum because CESscum's biggest fight this game is going to be against paranoia. Quickhammering a cop or risking quickhammering a cop makes no sense for CES if he's trying to avoid paranoia.

Me and Jason because I attach myself to my scum buddies like this? No really, what's the rationale behind this?

Sotty-Jason makes a surprising amount of sense. You're going to have to elaborate on that town read, Sotty.

This is p.scummy though. The wind starts to turn and you want to blend in. Why does it make sense?

CES Can you explain what makes sense about Jason/Sotty scum team, given Sotty's only real thoughts of me being scum was due to activity being low.. and not the way you are blowing it out. Most of the time she commented on my actual game play.. she saw town in it... her only thoughts of jason-scum was on lack of activity.

Also, can you explain why if the scum team makes sense, your vote is elsewhere?

To be fair, I put my vote on you when you gave some poorly worded Whiskers hate. That's what pushed me over the edge.

UNVOTE: CES

Plz

You're not bothered by Sotty calling you scum in her last post Yesterday and calling you 90% town Today? The interaction between you and Sotty has been a bit weird and I'm definitely missing something if the two of you are town (and I don't really think you have different alignments).

You are missing something. It starts with "ongoing" and ends with "games"

The thought process in Syryana's 383 is superficial, too.

Nooooo. You're going to have to detail why you think that because I almost fell in love.

Unvote

Jason... We need to team up on someone, I'm thinking CES? His sniffing around our love makes me extremely cautious. Did you see he waited until several others made comments before floating anything our way. I don't like.

I forgot that I have Nacho as town because of him talking me down from Rach yesterday. I think I have too many townies in my POE. I'll review tomorrow.

Vote: CES

[Sotty7]

Sotty, I'll talk more about CES in a bit, but what do you think of this post? How does it fit into your theory about CES's stance on you and jason?

Sotty's town read of Jason muddies the waters quite a bit w.r.t what the scum team is (Syryana's last post isn't bad either), but it only makes this vote easier:

Vote: Nacho

I'd actually like you to talk more about him now, why did you unvote? This vote was him falling back into his comfort zone, all he did yesterday was vote for Nacho and hammer Whiskers. He suddenly found me and Jason "interesting" after you and nacho both decided we were worth exploring. Doesn't feeling the slight bit natural at all.

Also, you should remove your vote for now if you want jason to follow you. He can't cast the L-1 vote!

Why not? But fine, you need to explain your position a bit more but I will give a little to get a little.

Unvote

it's not that he's lurking; it's what he does when he comes around.

Examples?

you protect him for one more day by taking a firm stance instead of waffling and trying to distance or just bussing him. it's much more natural, and while it would suck if he got lynched first and you were tied to him, you have plenty of time to defend since you know there isn't a cop in the setup.

This is pretty crap but okay.

Four, you may not agree with post 383 but calling it superficial and dumb is really not the way to go about it. The post was an extremely detailed break down of her thought process of why you and CES are the scum. Break down the points of why you aren't by all means. But you will not win any points from me by trying to discredit the player. It just sets my heckles off. I get your counter points, but I like what she had to say about CES but I wasn't quite so much on board when she spoke about you.

[Sotty7]

I would probably bus him, but grain of salt etc.

I don't think Four is an easy target, look at what happened to Sixty when they tried to push on Four. If anyone is an easy target in this game right now, it's Jason.

[Sotty7]

Who do you think is an easier target for jasonscum?

Do you mean who is an easy target for him to attack? Like I said, I don't think anyone is easy in this game.

Sotty, quick questions for you:

These are not quick questions. I feel like you are getting bogged down in unimportant stuff, but maybe it's me.

*It was the appearance of more than one person talking about it. He came in saying it would make sense

after

Nacho's vote on Jason. SUDDENLY it makes sense. Explain how that is natural.
*Don't really know right now. I'll figure that out when I need to. I try not to hunt in pairs because I get locked in. Plus it's dumb.
*I liked him breaking down his thought process a lot. I think the detail was good, for Four to just crap on all that was pretty poor. The WIFOM nightkill stuff is what it is, but CES did little on day one that much is true.
*No idea what you are getting at here. I need a Mina translator.

I unvoted partly to see what he'd do (apparently, the answer is nothing) and partly because of ~REASONS~.

What did you expect him to do, it's CES? REASONS just makes me shake my head. I feel like you are just asking a billion questions and not actually drawing any conculsions from it. I don't even know why I just answered because you STILL didn't answer my question of why you spent the first few posts of this day getting me NOT to vote CES when your vote was on him. I'd love your scum reads right now or any kind of actual stance.

So he suspects a Sotty-Jason scumteam but votes Nacho? I don't see this making any kind of sense. He tries to say later that he wants to explore the Sotty-Jason idea but doesn't necessarily want to vote for them. I think he's trying to be inconspicuous. He quickhammers yesterday, thinking that nobody will suspect a quickhammer from CESscum; he's too wily for such an obvious tactic. It backfires; Whiskers was the cop. Today, therefore, he attempts to appease me by saying my post attacking him "isn't bad" and slinks off to the person he targeted all day yesterday: Nacho. He makes some token posts about Sotty-Jason, then sits back and waits for everyone to get distracted by something else. Like Jason, for example.

this.

[Sotty7]

This is p.scummy though. The wind starts to turn and you want to blend in. Why does it make sense?

I don't think either of those assessments are accurate. I've only seen Nacho push that way.

So you didn't read Mina's posts?

[Sotty7]

I appreciate that post in that you are actually attempting to explain what you are doing. I don't agree with you, but I can see the thought process at least which is so much less maddening. I think I might have been overly harsh to you in 430, everything in mafia is pushing my buttons these days (now you see why Zach has been doing most of our hydra posting lately)

You had CES as a town read for his play on D1, for crying out loud!

You might want to check this fact. I had CES as my weakest town read simply because he is CES. You even questioned me on this. This is like the second time in recent memory you have misrepp'ed me like this. The first was you saying I was suspicious of Jason all day one, when I actually called him town at first before slowly changing my mind and then again 180'ing today. Also saying it's okay to have a town read on Syryana after his big post but then saying me agreeing with what he posting is scummy, in what backwards world does that make any sense? Either I liked the post and agreed with some points, or the points were bad and fluffy and my vote sticks?

You need to stop waffling and get your vote down, this time on an actual scum suspect. This voting CES to test the waters is really kinda shitty in such a small game like this. We don't have time for fancy plays like this and it was why I was so lost on why you didn't actually want me to vote CES with you. Maybe I ruined this "gambit" without realizing, but what were you hoping to get from it?

What about my Whiskers stance didn't you like? It was you who was trying to convince me to vote him yesterday because you thought I was town and the "wagon needed my support for a lynch" or something like that. Would you feel better if I started talking about how town I am in this game (which I am) and then just sheeped you without stopping to question anything?

[Sotty7]

prod received, its 3.40am. Thought I had posted yesterday, obv not. Post tomorrow when its not 3.40am

Come on dude.

I liked him breaking down his thought process a lot. I think the detail was good, for Four to just crap on all that was pretty poor. The WIFOM nightkill stuff is what it is, but CES did little on day one that much is true.

If you liked the way he broke down his thought process, why didn't you like the part about me? It was equally if not more detailed than the section on CES. I also don't see how the way he broke his thought process down relates to alignment?

I defend people I think are town all the time when I am town, which is what you are being accused of. I don't hunt scum buddies like that, I think it is dangerous.

I could probably compromise on Nacho at this point. I want to see where D+C finally put their vote and also where Jason votes.

[Sotty7]

Why are we talking about hypo Jason lynches? I mean, I don't get it. You are much guiltier of what you are trying to push on him here. I can barely take what you are typing seriously.

Thank God Tierce is dead; I'd have more people to suspect.

Didn't you say somewhere that they were "obv town"? I'm also kinda weirded out by you copying CES and his mocking of D+C's name. That's a gut thing though so.. I just don't know what to do with it. It's like you're doing it to get on his good side while attacking him. I don't know. It's bugging me.

I did come here this morning to say I would be back when I have slept for more than four hours, but there has been so little content lately so I wasn't even as behind as I should have been. Lets pick it up a bit here.

[Sotty7]

Of course they were obvtown, which made me suspect them.

what.

Jason needs to stop being a lazy fuck for once and post.

[Sotty7]

"Misrepp'd." That's a loaded term. Please don't beat around the bush. Do you suspect us, yes or no (or qualified maybe)?

I did remember, but it wasn't relevant to my point. What you're telling me is that he acted like

typical

CES (so nothing out of the ordinary at all) but you also agree with Syr's assessment of his play as fluffy non-contribution?

I still think you are town but I am getting annoyed with you missrepping my play, so please stop. (It is only a loaded term if it is false.) You basically admit that you did here.

I agree that CES didn't not all that much day one outside of pushing Nacho.

Disagree completely. How else do you read players like Furcolow? Townies passionately argue illogical or absurd points all the time. This is what bugged me about Whiskers--I could buy FourTrouble being somewhat self-centered and accusing Rach of persecuting him, but not an impartial observer. Likewise, I can buy a newbie or someone from a site with a different meta honestly believing that CES's survival means he's scum. I wouldn't buy it from you.

Well that's good because CES survival mode is not why I suspect him today.

It's not like we went, "CES is town, but let's vote him for TEH RXS!"

The policy-lynch suggestion was whimsical and fueled by paranoia, but would have been semi-serious if he'd

not

mentioned the VT claim. But I didn't actually have a stronger case than "He's CES and quickhammered the cop, so fuck it, let's just lynch the bastard!" Ever vote someone you're not convinced is scum just to feel him out?

The bold is exactly what you did? Unless you are saying you voted and then CES reaction is what made you think he was town which gets a frowny face from me.

When we changed our minds, I figured announcing it would be antitown. Part of it was wanting CES to feel like he was still under pressure

(it's not like he'd answer my questions otherwise)

, but I also thought the scum would swing for a CES mislynch with my and possibly Syr's votes assured. And people often take cues on what the "correct" position is from whatever's voiced most often in the thread, so I didn't want to bias their reactions. Total transparency is overrated. As for what I hoped to get out of it? Well, reactions like jason's...or, um, yours.

If you truly wanted CES "under pressure" getting my vote on him should have been a goal of yours, for two big reasons. The bigger the wagon the bigger the threat, but with CES it probably wouldn't have changed his response much. But also to see my whole reaction to putting my vote on him with you. You did the exact opposite.

That was Empire, but anyway. My problem is that you were very passive during his lynch, and didn't fight for one side or the other. Feels like how scum would play it, I guess. Also didn't like the wavering between "boy, this case is confusing and going waaay over my head"/"you're my soul mate, Whiskey-poo <3"/"sure, he's an okay lynch."

My problem when I am scum is getting locked into my "scum picks". I would have just picked a side and not fence sat like that, but I was torn BECAUSE you appealed directly to me. Whiskers reads matched mine, but his posting wasn't that great once I took a second look. My top town read was convinced he was scum and I was willing to admit that maybe I was wrong. I probably would have hammered if CES didn't. Probably not as quick though.

[Sotty7]

Jason, when you do finally post can you give me some links of your last 3 or 4 scum games.

Thanks.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, I think continuing this won't be productive, but it seems like something keeps getting lost in the translation here.

Hey! I agree. Dropping this crap, because it's crap. You're town, I'm over it.

Syryana's vote of Jason is terribad and I would like to know why him over Four. I like CES bringing that up.

[Sotty7]

i'm here

should read

[Sotty7]

Vote: Nacho

Enough pussyfooting around. There is a reason that I think Jason is town but I really don't want to come out with it until tomorrow if I can help it. I will feel like a dink if I read too much into what I saw, but live by the sword, die by the sword.

Nacho is pushing a bad line of thought on Jason that pretty much amounts to he is lazy and is making points I disagree with and if you knew Jason you would know, this is what he does. He has been stupidly lazy in ALL OF HIS GAMES lately. Really, go and look for yourself. I love Jason but he prone to bad arguments as town. Naho's other real reason for finding Jason scum is that he thinks were are scum together. If he really believed that he would be pushing it much more and appealing to players to see what he sees. Instead he has pretty much ignored me and pushed the easier lynch. IF nacho really thinks we're scum together surely we would both be optimal lynch bait for him, but I have felt zero pressure from him which makes me think it's all fake.

Syryana's vote on Jason also seems pretty contrived. Voted for reactions but now likes to keep his vote. Not really sure I buy that, but it's a MUCH better effort than Nacho at least.

Lynch - 1 might make him "engage" me now.

[Sotty7]

Jason, just give me the names of your last few scum games, I can link look myself. I need to check something.

[Sotty7]

OK, so its either FT or

CES

Syryana.

Fixed it for you.

POE has it down to either Four trouble, who I forgot was actually in the game yesterday and Syryana AKA Rach, who Nacho ushered me off on day one.

Jason, unvote CES at least while you spend the weekend in a drunk stupor. Pretty convinced he is town at this point.

[Sotty7]

K. Explain.

....I explained in the sentence you quoted.

sottyyyy hoew comes

We'll talk on Monday.

[Sotty7]

Syryana why did you hammer Nacho and what happened to your Jason push?

[Sotty7]

Really want to believe you.

Kinda smells like bullshit though.

[Sotty7]

Well what was the point? To avoid the night kill?

[Sotty7]

Stop deflecting. Why the decoy crap?

[Sotty7]

Le sigh. The Amished tell rears it's ugly head. This is going to be a tougher choice than I thought. I don't think you were that close to the noose yesterday, plus I don't think I made a Nacho case until I put my vote on him. In fact I almost voted with minimal expiation but stopped myself because I hadn't detailed why I found him scummy after I called him town earlier in the day. Your vote for Jason came waaaaaaaay before my move so this part of your explanation really doesn't add up.

It's like you're throwing shit out to see just what will stick. How about you give us a detailed non bullshit list of your reads. For example, I feel like your 535 is a pretty forced reasoning for a Four vote. Expand?

[Sotty7]

The Amished tell is basically when scum replaces in and talks about how scummy the person they replaced was. It's really hit or miss depending on the player but it threw up a red flag because of the other read flags I have been seeing lately from you.

Thanks for posting your reads. Will chew it over. It is interesting that I am scum for finding Jason town, who you also find town. I have detailed why I find him town (see my nacho vote for example) just not given all the reasons. (Anything you can do etc..)

[Sotty7]

I think it raised a question mark when you flip-flopped on Jason with no explanation other than "I'd rather not give my reasons out today, thanks."

Check again?

[Sotty7]

The paranoia in me had Nacho trying to flip JasonScum so that he could lynch me the next day. But it's a small voice in the back of my head. I still very much think the choice is between Four and Syryana.

[Sotty7]

Jason, wanna detail your CES scum read for me?

[Sotty7]

Jason, unvote CES at least while you spend the weekend in a drunk stupor. Pretty convinced he is town at this point.

Just out of interest, what made you change your mind on CES being scum?

Nacho's RB flip. What do you think about that?

I would love for D+C to dump some knowledge in the game so we can move forward. Currently leaning Syryana.

[Sotty7]

It honestly surprised me, I had him lower on the scum reads. If he flipped scum, I expected goon. So it was a great blow to scum to get their RB taken out.

No I mean, what do you think about CES hyposcum pushing Nacho confirmed roleblocker from day one when the scum would know that they had a cop and doc to contend with.

[Sotty7]

Hey, Sotty. Since you're leaning towards me as the last scum, what do you think of my hammer?

Meh. Forgone conclusion. You could be doing a lot more to convince me on Four but you're not bothered to do so. You just seem kinda content with the game state right now and that is bothering me.

Same could be said for Four as well I guess. Which is part of the reason why I want to lynch you both.

[Sotty7]

Is that something you explicitly thought about? Whether people made sense as RB or Goon?

Eh, not overly... The setups show more chances of a goon flip than a RB flip though.

Do you think CES bussed Nacho from day one with Nacho's RB'er flip. Seriously, answer me

UNVOTE:

I'm not happy with this. Explain why your "other read" is FT, in detail please.

r u 4 realz?

[Sotty7]

r u 4 realz?

Yes. I don't like it when people put other people at L-1 without explaining themselves. Particularly in view of the fact that D+C has got me paranoid about Jason now.

Sure. Right.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nacho

BRING DOWN THE THUNDER, IT'S HAMMER TIME!

Whatever you say.

...uhh, Sotty/CES, are you really sure this dude is town?

I'm sure he is a tasty mislynch just like in every game he has played ever. Talk to me more about your bussing theory.

Unvote

Hmm, Syryana's unvote looks pretty town. I'm gonna take a look at Jason again.

lol, no. Syryana's unvote is a desperate play for town cred if I ever saw one.

OMG MY TOP TARGET OF ALL DAY IS AT LYNCH MINUS ONE! ....I better unvote!

Please.

Vote: Syryana

[Sotty7]

pouts

[Sotty7]

God lord.

Can we lynch both Four and Syryana? 646 and 647 are both so bad.

[Sotty7]

I'm basically at the point of voting for Four because CES is standing in the corner of the room glaring at me to do just that. And really, who am I to argue at this point? His Jason vote is pretty ridiculous.

Your bussing theory is interesting and has a little weight. I would like Jason to respond to that.

Syrana's unvote is terrible because of the whole Nacho quick hammer and the fact Jason was right. This game WAS lagging, discussion was basically at a standstill and him dropping his vote DID stimulate some stuff from happening. Plus the idea that someone would quick hammer with the people who weren't voting at the time or could have switched (Myself, D+C and Four) is just insanity. Keeping his vote on Four while making Jason lay down better reasons would have been a much better use of his time. But whatever.

Also, deadline is in like two days so lets pick it up. AKA if you're not voting right now, you should fix that.

[Sotty7]

Your bussing theory is interesting and has a little weight. I would like Jason to respond to that.

gonna have a think and get back to you.

Not acceptable. Deadline is in a day and half. Get on it.

[Sotty7]

Unvote, Vote: FourTrouble

I'm at work all day today, but lets try and get something done.

[Sotty7]

^ lynch -1

[Sotty7]

Very tempted to vote Whiskers right now, josh was meh, whiskers done little to convince me that kitty is a soft kitty....

This is the post that made me think Jason was the dr and got me off him at the start of day two. I know he likes to pointlessly crumb his role so I figured he was trying to tell me something. The day I put my vote on Nacho I walked to work and realized that he could have just said that because Whiskers is a cat name and then I felt like an idiot. But I came home, and after Zach trolling me for a few minutes I was happy to learn nacho flipped scum and all was right with the world. I decided to keep Jason town for all the reasons I listed in that he is an awesome easy lynch and I wasn't wrong. Both scum were dripping all over him.

Syryana being the doc makes sense now, the only real way his ballsy play makes sense. I still liked your opening to the game, it was well thought out, fuck the haters.

Sixty's play really rubbed me the wrong way on day one, still kinda does. The fact Tierce's meta is to play that way is sorta mind blowing to me. I don't know if I am too old fashioned or what, but I kinda expect townies to do more than say they are town. Maybe I just got bent out of shape, I don't know, but whatever. I think I need more exposure to today's site meta, because I'm not great at reading it.

Jason, please stop signing up for games. <3

CES, the answer is to always sheep you. I know this now. /successful cult recruit.

[Sotty7]

I know, I tried to tell them.

But to be fair, it is always good to lynch you no matter your alignment

[Sotty7]

Well when someone suspects you and you say

"lol no I'm obv town and you are clearly dumb/scum for thinking otherwise vote: you"

It makes me hard to respect that play. That's basically what you did to me. I saw no other real explanation for why you ever thought I was scum other than that and I think that's pretty crap and for some reason it just made me mad. Maybe because Vi was in your hydra and I kinda expected something more substantial.

[Sotty7]

It made it super hard to take anything else you said seriously I suppose.

[Sotty7]

Other than that,

It would have been nice to see these reasons actually detailed. It probably would have made me considerably less bitter, which I apologize for.

I'm always willing to share my ball of light, especially with puppys that play nice

[Sotty7]

No actually, I think it looks good like this.

Lets never fight again.

[Sotty7]

(Well until the next game.)