Open 480 - C9++ Game Over!

[Cub Daigoro]

VOTE: Nobody Special

I know you only as a god, untouchable by mere mortals. Let's see how you play.

[Cub Daigoro]

Heh. Not if you're scum!

[Cub Daigoro]

@NS

, Why no vote in play?

[Cub Daigoro]

Vote: Cub Daigoro

Happy now?

I'd be happier if a reason accompanied it.

[Cub Daigoro]

Someone's likely to hit scum in RVS. Why not me?

Are you satisfied with NS's responses?

[Cub Daigoro]

No reason; RVS. (Oh, wait, that's a reason.)

Seems to me we left RVS around post 20 or so.

[Cub Daigoro]

Not really, that was a reaction test that didn't work.

I'd say we left RVS at 47

Does this mean your vote on Cheery Dog is no longer random?

[Cub Daigoro]

Someone's likely to hit scum in RVS. Why not me?

Why not you indeed. Whether or not NS is scum is irrelevant here

...Wut? What could possibly be more relevant?

- my point isn't solely that you're voting the same person that you voted in RVS. It's that your reasons, rather than feeling like genuine attempts to scumhunt, feel like extensions of your RVS vote - that is,

excuses

to keep your vote on NS without having to look elsewhere.

Why should I move my vote if I think it's a good wagon just because it was an RVS vote? Do you think people should just reflexively move off their RVS votes? If so, what's the purpose of RVS?

[Cub Daigoro]

It's as simple as that.

Okay, I understand your case now. I would simplify it further as "gut". Fair?

[Cub Daigoro]

I just read your iso and failed to come up with any kind of reason to vote me.

Would you [like] to provide some reasoning now?

Out of your seven posts, one has content. It consisted of an OMGUS vote that you described as RVS well past RVS (IMO). You've done literally nothing else. I see no reason to move my vote.

[Cub Daigoro]

Understanding a case against you, what is this? and then just discrediting it to gut, I don't like that at all.

...Wut? What could possibly be more relevant?

Your motivation behind the vote. I'm arguing about

your

alignment, not NS's.

Why should I move my vote if I think it's a good wagon just because it was an RVS vote? Do you think people should just reflexively move off their RVS votes? If so, what's the purpose of RVS?

I am absolutely not saying "anyone who keeps their RVS vote after RVS is scum." In fact, I'm trying to make it as clear as day that this is

not

my point, although feel free to use it as a straw man.

My point is that

in this specific situation

, I believe that your prodding at NS is a product of you not wanting to do genuine scumhunting on other people, so that you can keep your vote passively on him.

I came to this conclusion by looking at your prodding and

deciding that it didn't look genuine

, or that

it looked like excuses

to not move your vote rather than questions that you sincerely want to know the answers to.

It's as simple as that.

That's gut. What would you call it?

[Cub Daigoro]

It's as simple as that.

Okay, I understand your case now. I would simplify it further as "gut". Fair?

Insofar as every case ever made by anyone in the history of the game of mafia can be simplified to "gut," fair.

No, just the ones that boil down to "seems fake". There's no argument against that because it's just a gut feeling. All I can do is contradict you and say no, you're wrong, I really am interested in NS's responses.

[Cub Daigoro]

my CD vote

I don't think that abbreviation is going to work in this game...

[Cub Daigoro]

What are your reads on them?

Mostly null. Are you suggesting I move my vote to one of them?

[Cub Daigoro]

Your content/post count ratio pings my scumdar.

[Cub Daigoro]

allowed him to ignore everything for the first two page

What makes you think I'm ignoring everything that I'm not focusing on?

[Cub Daigoro]

Your content/post count ratio pings my scumdar.

Bullshit, good sir.

You didn't find me scummy after post 32.

Are you saying your posts lacked content at that point?

[Cub Daigoro]

What makes you think I was ignoring everything I wasn't focusing on?

All of your posts have contained more than the equivalent of "Hi, I am here." Content.

[Cub Daigoro]

You "trolled". NS did nothing. How are you drawing an equivalency here?

[Cub Daigoro]

Your content/post count ratio pings my scumdar.

I don't consider trolling content. I consider content to mean things that are productive.

It seemed productive to me, or at least potentially so, so it didn't ping my scumdar. In any case, you've clearly been posting content since. You're making a huge stretch implying that my response to NS is fake because I didn't respond to you the same way.

If NS does something particularly townish or if someone else does something that seems scummier than active lurking, I will switch my vote, but not before then.

[Cub Daigoro]

SafetyDance has a weird fixation on people being NS's scumbuddies.

Here he is voting me for "busing" NS:

Someone's likely to hit scum in RVS. Why not me?

Oh look, self-confessed bussing.

Vote: Cub Diagoro

Mind you, he hasn't called NS scummy at this point. He prepares for that here:

I completely agree with you, NS. Know this, I will tunnel the fuck out of you today to get you lynched if you start lurking here. Would like to nip this in the bud early. K thx.

And follows through here:

UNVOTE
VOTE:Nobody Special

Post count is nice but substance would be nice. Don't you have any reads?

Then he hops off that distancing vote, declaring that PPP is now NS's scumbuddy:

Hang on, why FOS instead of putting you're vote there? In fact, why would you not, unless you're actually worried about a wagon forming and not wanting to vote your scum buddy

FOS: pieceofpecanpie

Oh, did I write FOS? Silly me.

Vote: pieceofpecanpie

Conclusion: Safety is NS's scumbuddy.

HoS: SafetyDance

[Cub Daigoro]

we shouldn't be partner hunting right now ... (

I saw someone else claiming someone was NS's scumbuddy too

)

Normally I'd agree, if not for the fact that Safety used the bolded as the basis of two of his three votes. His third vote was on NS himself. He seems awfully confident that NS is going to flip scum.

[Cub Daigoro]

In fact if you can find an actual quote that proves I have more confidence in NS being scum than this post:

Someone's likely to hit scum in RVS. Why not me?

Are you satisfied with NS's responses?

I'd love to see it.

I posted three. Your three votes. The common denominator in your all your votes is NS.

BTW, Pointing out that I am just as likely as anyone else to have hit scum with my RVS means only that I felt no need to move my vote just because it was an RVS vote. Not sure how you derived busing from it.

[Cub Daigoro]

Post 114: Wait, what? Calling players Nobody Special's scumbuddy automatically makes the accuser Nobody Special's scumbuddy? Will you explain that to me? Semi-Edit: Basically, Post 127.

No, not automatically. But there's a pattern that looks like Safety treating NS as confirmed scum. It gives me the willies.

[Cub Daigoro]

There's a reason for that.

Not that I necessarily agree with what NS is saying there -- I don't see it myself -- but if he's right and the scum don't get it, good.

Can I take this to mean you have a town read on NS?

[Cub Daigoro]

I don't understand 148, then. How can you say there's a reason (and if he's right, good) if you don't have a read on his alignment?

[Cub Daigoro]

EBWOP: I mean, it seems to me that the reasons would be very different for town and scum.

[Cub Daigoro]

...

Bringing up something you imply you shouldn't be talking about is... We will be coming back to this at some point.

[Cub Daigoro]

Someone's likely to hit scum in RVS. Why not me?

Why you? What makes you so special?

I'm special because I'm the only one who gets a question from you that doesn't sound rhetorical.

That quote specifically means I'm

not

special, but I'm just as likely as anyone else to have hit scum on RVS, so there's no reason I should have arbitrarily moved my vote if I was unsatisfied by NS's responses just because it was an RVS vote.

[Cub Daigoro]

If NS plays anything like he used to, then well, I don't think anyone can read him.

I'm getting this same message from a lot of people.

So what's the plan, then, folks who are saying this? Lay off him until...? Sounds like just the kind of player to pressure early so we don't get screwed in LYLO.

[Cub Daigoro]

bussing

I wasn't going to say anything, but unless we're talking about an archaic word for kissing (kiss of death?) or perhaps a shortened version of shooting someone with a short-range scattershot musket (blunderbussing) rather than throwing under the bus, it should be busing, but I guess I can keep my pedantry in check if that's how it's spelled in the MafiaScum vernacular...

[Cub Daigoro]

I, for one, refuse to leave NS alive for LYLO.

What if he's confirmed town by then?

[Cub Daigoro]

It's not really WIFOM so much as "fuck it, I don't want to deal with this shit so let's just lynch him" which is...not technically pro-town but I'd argue potentially town-positive.

I say NS is scummy. Others say "Nuh-uh! Meta!" I say, if his meta is scummy, he deserves the attention.

[Cub Daigoro]

Well, Safety's my strongest scumread, as evinced by my vote.

When you placed that vote, you said you liked my argument and might be sheeping me. Can you summarize what you liked about my argument?

[Cub Daigoro]

Well you said you weren't sure if you were sheeping me or {somebody... I forget who at the moment and it doesn't matter just now} so it might be me or it might be the other person.

IDK, seemed like obvious bait to me. Not that surprised no one really jumped on it.

[Cub Daigoro]

No wonder I couldn't remember who the other person was. Here's his entire ISO:

vote: SafetyDance

Here's why:

Hang on, why FOS instead of putting you're vote there? In fact, why would you not, unless you're actually worried about a wagon forming and not wanting to vote your scum buddy

In this post SafetyDance definitively attributes an action that clearly has the potential for town motivations solely to scum motivations and uses it to justify a vote. In my experience this is a pretty slam dunk tell, so I'm very confident here relative to the length and depth of the game so far. That he did it while already having what he considers a legitimate vote out is just a bonus.

More from me later, I'm exhausted and my eyes are glazing over trying to focus on anything.

Maybe he's still sleeping.

[Cub Daigoro]

That might be what happened, but it isn't what should have happened. An unconfirmed player is irritating, but nothing can be done about it in the context of the game - all that can be done is request a prod. A player who is confirmed but lurking is different: there are an array of valid actions in reponse.

I don't think it's all that unusual to ignore lurkers as a game is ramping up, especially when there are people participating who are doing scummy things, like active lurking.

the active lurking... is blatant.

Yes.

And my vote isn't doing anything else right now, so maybe it can give NS some attention.

Vote: NS

Good idea!

[Cub Daigoro]

If he's town, I want his vote in play.

If he's scum, I want him hanged.

Do you consider his current vote pro-town?

[Cub Daigoro]

I don't usually get much of substance done during Day One. I get better on Day Two, after a couple flips.

Here's how it usually happens: Someone miraculously outshines me in the scummy behavior department on Day One, and I get much more active and substantial from Day Two forward.

You seem very self-aware of your meta. Have you ever thought about, I don't know, not being scummy on Day One? Is it intentional?

I'm pretty sure everyone gets better after Day One. That's the nature of the game.

I'm not going to address my post 140 at this time.

When can we expect you to address it?

[Cub Daigoro]

Except for the active lurking. That is blatant.

Seemed pretty straightforward to me.

PPP, what's your opinion of my push on NS?

[Cub Daigoro]

He changed his vote to popp because some association between him and NS (which is ridiculous in the first place). If he already believes that NS is scum, ockham's razor says that he should vote NS, not popp. Where is the town motivation in that?

I agree with this.

UNVOTE

VOTE: SafetyDance

L-2, I think

[Cub Daigoro]

Apozzle, do you have any thoughts yet on ac983fan, Belisarius, or Zaicon?

[Cub Daigoro]

Cleared things up for me. Maybe because it squares with my thinking about it.

[Cub Daigoro]

Why would it be troubling?

[Cub Daigoro]

On Cub, he is/was using the reasoning that because his RVS vote might be on scum then that is a good reason to leave it there now.

I've explained this several times, so I'm not sure why you still have it wrong.

Because my RVS vote might be on scum means the fact it is an RVS vote was not a sufficient reason to move it. I think it's pretty clear that I found NS's behavior to be scummy.

[Cub Daigoro]

Did you look here:

@NS

, Why no vote in play?

And here?

Vote: Cub Daigoro

Happy now?

I'd be happier if a reason accompanied it.

And in my subsequent pressuring of NS?

[Cub Daigoro]

So... Do you still think I was saying I was confident that I had hit scum, or do you understand what I was actually saying now that I've clarified several times?

Do you still think I'm scummy?

[Cub Daigoro]

Do you still think I'm NS's scumbuddy?

[Cub Daigoro]

If I ever mod a game, I'm going to have a policy of including prod-dodge posts in my prod counts.

[Cub Daigoro]

All of his votes are bad, especially taken together.

Also this:

Votes for me, but then after some discussion says:

That said, Cub's Post #71 is accurate as well.

Actually, I think you're both looking town at the moment.

Here's post 71:

I just read your iso and failed to come up with any kind of reason to vote me.

Would you [like] to provide some reasoning now?

Out of your seven posts, one has content. It consisted of an OMGUS vote that you described as RVS well past RVS (IMO). You've done literally nothing else. I see no reason to move my vote.

Then later I vote for him, and he responds by reiterating his misinterpretation of the post he quoted when he first voted for me that he had dismissed when calling me town, and after some discussion says:

Do you still think I'm scummy?

Yes

[Cub Daigoro]

I do recall that the first response of 256 is characteristic.

What does this mean? Meta?

[Cub Daigoro]

Oh, okay.

Can you put your strong town read on Safety into words?

[Cub Daigoro]

Deadline: Saturday, March 9th 1:00am EST

That's only four and a half days from now. Let's pick up the pace, kiddies.

[Cub Daigoro]

the votehopping he's done just doesn't look scummy in the slightest to me.

What about the reasons he has supplied for said votes?

[Cub Daigoro]

Well I'm still open to a NS lynch, but I'd rather do someone else today because we can always lynch him tomorrow if he fails to live up to his promise to be more pro-town on day 2.

Any other candidates?

[Cub Daigoro]

Alright, so Safety's wagon isn't really moving and I'm not going to be the one to move it.

I'll craft a full explanation of why later today.

UNVOTE:

It's tomorrow where I live. Is it still today where you are?

[Cub Daigoro]

DayVigging =/= Voting. I don't like FOS, I think it was bad, I wanted to put pressure on (and it got a reaction) for not voting, I did the only thing in my power to do so.

Obviously a single vote doesn't cause a lynch, but there is still nothing wrong with not voting until you have a high certainty level. Sure, pressure votes are fine but conservative voting is not a scumtell.

Post 268 makes SafetyDance look rather scum-like.

What do you think of the remainder of the case on SD?

I was being completely serious.

Then sheep meeeeeeee!

[Cub Daigoro]

It's mostly meta, but it's also that the votehopping he's done just doesn't look scummy in the slightest to me.

D you know for sure he doesn't votehop as scum, or is it the reasoning along with the jumps that make you think that way?

Well, from what I've seen he doesn't as Scum, but it's more the reasoning.

Can you explain to me why reasoning that someone would only FoS if they were scum afraid of lynching their buddy looks like townie reasoning?

Can you explain the townie reasoning behind his vote on me in 54, his apparent retraction in 98, and his apparent retraction of his retraction after I voted him?

[Cub Daigoro]

Can you explain your tunnelling and obsession?

I think you're scum, and I want you lynched.

I suggest you ISO my posts and try to read them all instead of being so selective.

Your ISO is scummy. I selected the parts that don't appear to add up.

Comprehension optional I guess.

[Cub Daigoro]

My vote for you was when? Post #54 wasn't it? .... Anything after that is irrelevant

The fact that you seemed to retract it in 98 is irrelevant???

[Cub Daigoro]

@Cub: It's called changing your mind? I don't honestly know what you're seeing because it's just not there. If you expect a perfect case page 2, you're gonna have a bad time.

That's fine, but he appears to have returned to his page 2 case since I voted him.

See my point now?

[Cub Daigoro]

@ac: Some people find FoS scummy. It's more a personal thing than a site meta thing, we all have personal tells.

In the post SD links to, he doesn't call FoS scummy, nor does he vote for HD. He simply says:

FoS are weak crap too btw. Achieve nothing.

@Cub: Has he? I don't see him voting you.

But you see him continue to reiterate the case, don't you? You saw him answer yes when I asked him in the context of said case if he still thought I was scummy, didn't you?

[Cub Daigoro]

well this may be a problem but I'll just assume you have some ~quirky personality~ that allows you to openly and seriously sheep people without it being scummy

He probably learned this replacement style from Thor is my guess.

[Cub Daigoro]

I'm not really seeing reiterations

127, 247, 253, 261, 264, 299

247 directly reiterates the case:

On Cub, he is/was using the reasoning that because his RVS vote might be on scum then that is a good reason to leave it there now. I don't find that acceptable and anyone who would say anything like that is likely scummy for either knowing NS is scum and bussing him or scummy because he's not even trying to scumhunt and thinks a RVS vote can be used without reason for a valid on.

[Cub Daigoro]

So... What is he calling me scummy for in 264?

I'm making a "fuss" because I think it's scummy.

[Cub Daigoro]

SD, is GM right? Without referencing your page 2 vote, why am I scummy?

[Cub Daigoro]

Players I currently don't want to lynch today:

goodmorning
implosion
Zaicon
Apozzle
PPP
Cheery Dog

and preferably someone other than NS, too

[Cub Daigoro]

Players I currently don't want to lynch today:

goodmorning
implosion
Zaicon
Apozzle

PPP
Cheery Dog

and preferably someone other than NS, too

Scratch PPP and Cheery Dog from that list. I thought I saw something that made me want to see some night action results before putting them in the lynch pool, but I was mis-reading it.

Still not really seeing the case on PPP, but I might be persuadable.

The last sentence means I might be willing to lynch NS, but preferably as a last resort. It just seems too easy for scum to hop on a NS wagon as a compromise lynch if we can't build a more exciting wagon.

[Cub Daigoro]

Yeah, not getting "desperation" here at all, GM. This is a real clanger of a vote. I'm putting you back in the lynch pool.

P-edit: Actually, after 337 (and since the SafetyDance wagon fell apart for some reason):

UNVOTE

VOTE: goodmorning

[Cub Daigoro]

I find arguments about things like "tone" highly subjective, easy to misinterpret, and poorly representative of one's alignment.

[Cub Daigoro]

So... What is he calling me scummy for in 264?

I'm making a "fuss" because I think it's scummy.

I can't even remember what I had for dinner let alone a post made a couple of days ago

Maybe it does need some clarification but she at least seemed to 'get' it. So going back a step,

@Cub: It's called changing your mind? I don't honestly know what you're seeing because it's just not there. If you expect a perfect case page 2, you're gonna have a bad time.

That's fine, but he appears to have returned to his page 2 case since I voted him.

See my point now?

Wrong.

All I am doing is defending a case made in #54 towards something I found scummy. You're applying it to make me look scummy for other reasons.

Do I find it still scummy? Yes
Do I find you scummy for it? Yes
Do I find you still scummy in general? Not necessarily.
Do I find this obsessive tunnelling, repetitive and circle logic scummy? Yes
Am I prepared to lynch you for it? Not today.

That's "clarification"?

I can't understand how this wagon fell apart.

[Cub Daigoro]

This is so town v town.

Can we find scum now? Implosion, forgetting the fact that it aligns with your read on him, what is your reaction to GM's vote on PPP?

[Cub Daigoro]

Two and a half days now, and our biggest wagons are L-4...

[Cub Daigoro]

This wouldn't be concerning if there wasn't an air of passivity about the game.

^This.

Who else are you looking at besides Apozzle?

I'm currently favoring goodmorning, SafetyDance, or failing either of those, Nobody Special.

[Cub Daigoro]

@MOD, Requesting a prod of Zaicon (I think rule 14 means I can request this now?)

[Cub Daigoro]

I'd rather not divulge the reasons behind all my town reads at this time, but when the time comes I will. In the meantime, do you have any other scum reads?

[Cub Daigoro]

I'm trying to convince you to unvote at the moment, just to keep your options open.

[Cub Daigoro]

EBWOP: not

[Cub Daigoro]

You've done his first 22 posts, and you think 12 of them are scummy?!? Why didn't you question him about any of these things in real time?

This just reeks of scum building a bullshit post hoc case to justify a terrible vote.

[Cub Daigoro]

Why didn't you question him about any of these things in real time?

I want a crack at this after gm answers; I've a question for you at that time, too.

Okay. In the meantime:

Beli, your answer will be in this post.

Did you get your answer?

[Cub Daigoro]

EBWOP:

BTW, I don't want the question "Why didn't you question him about any of these things in real time?" to sidetrack my main point, which is that GM found 12 of PPP's 22 first posts scummy. My point in 375 is the mountain of bullshit burying the bad vote.

[Cub Daigoro]

My vote is not bad. If you want me to consider it so, you're going to have to come up with some actual points in his favour, because I've not seen any.

It's not bad in the sense that the target is wrong (although I believe it is). If that were the case, I'll consider all the Apozzle votes bad.

It's bad in the sense that the reason you provided for it rings false, and you've thus far declined to elaborate on PPP's "desperation." It comes across as you deciding it was time to join the PPP wagon and then trying to find a reason to do so, which is backwards if you're town.

Why do you find it so hard to believe that this is what happened to gm?

Because she didn't go back and cobble together her case until AFTER her "desperation" vote.

If she had used this re-read as a basis for the vote, it would make more sense. Instead, it comes across as cover for her bad vote, especially considering that she found more than half of his posts scummy. No one is that consistently scummy, not even scum.

When you look at the points she makes, there's no cohesive picture of a scum mindset, just a string of tells, most of which are huge stretches. Prime example:

179: Calls Apozzle scummy for that stupid stunt he did.
Why it's scummy: Fourth lynch candidate in 80 hours? Bit quick to set up lynches, sir.

Four scum reads in three and a half days is scummy? ...Wut?

[Cub Daigoro]

@Bel, since Safety does not seem like a viable lynch today, which way are you leaning with your vote?

[Cub Daigoro]

Calling Apozzle your top lynch candidate makes myself and Safety scumier than him?

CONFUSED

Susan

PPP was pretty clear about how impressed he was by Apozzle's 390.

CASES

ARE

GODDAMNED BORING

They're especially tedious when you have to fabricate them.

[Cub Daigoro]

Are you willing to explain your GM read at this point?

[Cub Daigoro]

I can post them when I get there, but don't expect to be amazed.

Meh. If you want. Your explanation suffices.

P-edit: Not court. Gauge.

[Cub Daigoro]

@Human Destroyer:

Deadline looming in this game. Comments on recent events needed, please.

[Cub Daigoro]

Okay.

[Cub Daigoro]

My feeling is that we should aim to force a claim by about this time tomorrow at the very latest. Tonight would be better.

[Cub Daigoro]

^ I agree with every single point except I'm hopeful that AC will return and weigh in.* It pretty much encompasses my thought process leading to my comment in 415.


* And except the being a jerk part.

[Cub Daigoro]

EBWOP: Thinking about it further, though, my timeframe in 415 is too generous. We should aim to force a claim tonight. Period.

[Cub Daigoro]

I liked 347. *shrug*

I'm not going to comment on the claim right now other than to say I'm glad we have a claim to evaluate and it doesn't change my vote.

[Cub Daigoro]

That argument between implosion and PPP was nothing but subjectivity and perception, and I found it pretty boring for the most part, but 347 was particularly entertaining.

[Cub Daigoro]

I never rewrote what implosion said, I didn't scramble his words and fit them together in a different way. Your analogy is bunk. I quoted lines of his verbatim. It was my way of representing "I'm confused, what you wrote doesn't make sense".

You were also the accused, not the accuser, which I think is an important distinction.

Building a case and refuting a case are very different activities.

[Cub Daigoro]

Cub. Why do you appear to be coaching?

[Cub Daigoro]

Pretty sure it means "... enough of GM and [the] related [discussion thereof] ..."

[Cub Daigoro]

*facedesk*

[Cub Daigoro]

*ahem* GM is at L-1.

My intention to vote her to L-1 is now an intention to hammer.

With Cheery Dog's unvote, it's L-2

[Cub Daigoro]

I'm counting L-3:

AC, HD, Cheery & Bel.

Who am I missing?

[Cub Daigoro]

@MOD, can we have an official vote count, please?

[Cub Daigoro]

I think you should only claim now if we can't gauge enough willingness to lynch GM by deadline.

Here's the willingness to lynch GM as I read it:

Cub: yes
Apozzle: yes
NS: yes
PPP: yes

Zaicon: yes?
Edos: yes?
Cheery: yes?

Bel: no

Implosion: no?
AC: no?

HD: ???
Safety: ???

If we don't get seven firm yeses in the next couple hours, then claim regardless of your vote count.

[Cub Daigoro]

I am in class for the next 3.5 hours but I will try to check back in ~2.

After class probably leaves plenty of time still and gives people like

Human Destroyer

(who is also in classes, I believe) a chance to weigh in.

[Cub Daigoro]

HD

. Deadline. 9 hours. Anything?

At least answer this easy yes or no question:

Are you willing to lynch goodmorning by deadline if the Apozzle wagon doesn't work out?

[Cub Daigoro]

To prevent a no lynch I suppose.

Good enough.

Apozzle, I recommend you don't claim unless forced.

[Cub Daigoro]

Fine. This is probably inevitable, and I'm paranoid about a derphammer.

Apozzle, please let these fine people know why they need to unvote you.

[Cub Daigoro]

Roleclaim: Mason

Anyone want to see the awesome breadcrumbs I planted in case one of us died before we claimed and wasn't around to vouch for the other?

It doesn't explain bugger all;

It explains me saying, "He's town because reasons." It explains me prodding everyone focusing on Apozzle to think about who else they find scummy.

Really, guys? You pick a secondary wagon and it's Apozzle? Wouldn't have hit my top 5, but that appears to be this game in general.

I thought he seemed pretty scummy up until 390. I very probably would have voted for him at some point if I hadn't already known his alignment.

[Cub Daigoro]

I've never played Mason before, and all Day long I've been bouncing around the pros & cons of claiming early vs those of holding out and decided under the circumstances this is the better way.

That said, here are my crumbs:

Cleared things up for me. Maybe because it

squares

with my thinking about it.

^ I agree with every single point except I'm hopeful that AC will return and weigh in.* It pretty much

encompasses

my thought process leading to my comment in 415.

* And except the being a jerk part.

The Masonic symbols are the square and compasses.

But that's not all. I crumbed harder than that:

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/handshakes.htm

SD: A
WM: B
SD: O
WM: Z
WM: (Directing his words to the candidate): "Boaz, my Brother, is the name of this grip, and should always be given in the customary manner, by lettering or halving. When lettering, always commence with the letter, "A".

...

Apozzle, do you have any thoughts yet on

a

c983fan,

B

elisarius,

o

r

Z

aicon?

[Cub Daigoro]

There are reasons I outed myself.

[Cub Daigoro]

Hey GM, since you seem to be resigned to a lynch already anyway, can you give us any updated reads before you depart? It's your last chance to help your wincon.

How does our Mason claim affect your reads?

[Cub Daigoro]

I'll explain why I claimed explicitly. Just not today. I thought about it carefully.

[Cub Daigoro]

Bah! Go town!

[Cub Daigoro]

GG. Well, game anyway.

Thanks for modding, Gamma.

Here's the Mason QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/aKGsHm4Fe5vUL

We correctly ID'd Beli and Edo during N1, but Cheery wasn't on our radar.

[Cub Daigoro]

If it didn't want it, don't give me links to QTs. <_<

Is this addressed to me? If so, I apologize. I thought posting QTs in thread was common practice.