Newbie 1345: Mafia in a Bind (Game Over)

[MP5]

Hello slimer, greetings all. I'm sure I'll get to know you more as we go along.

Just checking in from my phone so I can't be bothered making a long intro post with links and info, but I'm sure slimer as the IC will be happy to oblige

For now, we enter the random voting stage (rvs), and as such I shall
VOTE: Voodoo Lady

Hard to tell who is more likely to be Mafia out of a voodoo lady and a snake, but going on a hunch here.

[MP5]

So what would be enough to go on for you to make your vote useful Didi?

[MP5]

Yeah, RQS sucks. Keep away please.

Will be interested to hear Muttley's answer to Xegarus, but for now I have FSnake and Muttley both as town, and Xiao Long is looking scummiest to me.

Not sure about Voodoo's reaction, but for now

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xiao Long

[MP5]

Phone post, still here but focusing on another game which was close to deadline.

Will explain my reason later when can get on my laptop.

[MP5]

Hi, everyone
This is my first game ever, so
Let us all have fun!

VOTE: KingPin96

Because avatar.
Counter Strike is the only
Worthwhile source game, bro.

;D

This was Xiao Long's first post of the game, and the first thing that stuck out to me of what had been posted.

Muttley reads town to me because of the dry reaction to the question in post #36, maybe its just because its something very similar to what I might say. FSnake is town also for that early questioning, its a little misguided (Muttley also had a very "dry" tone in posts #14 and #16 so I don't think he seemed "afraid" as FSnake put) but got something started, which is nice.

Back to Xiao. His very first post, and he comes in sounding - excited. Very excited. Could just be someone in their first mafia game? Well, I would've thought so previously, but for the fact that the IC in my last newbie game (1315) pointed it out as a scum tell, and not even on a newbie but an SE - to my surprise, it turned out to be accurate.

Since then, Xiao posts a little fluff, asks if it was for a reaction, and then posts that he thinks the motivation for the topic of discussion is reaction testing. Well, you don't get much of a reaction when they ask "Is this to get a reaction?" I'm still happy keeping my vote here.

Liking the activity from Didi, not going to commit on an alignment here yet but I haven't seen too much to bother me, so heading townwards. Want more activity from our IC (kettle? black? pot? ), maybe "substance" is the better word . Xeg is aggressive, will get a stronger read as we go along, gut feel is slightly unsettling but nothing I can put any sort of finger on. KP96 asked an OK question (then disappeared ), Voodoo is legit so far so I'll peg her as town. I think that covers it so far.

@FSnake - we've left RVS now. You still happy with your vote?
@Muttley - please put your serious face on. Who is scum?
@Voodoo - what "different reasons" for suspecting Muttley?

What's V/LA?

Vacation/Limited Access. Basically, not going to post for a couple of days (or if can post, just minimal).

[MP5]

Quick phone post again.

I asked because there
was nothing indicating
I'm scum in my posts.

No, no, no, no!! Just no.
If you are trying to judge on your own scumminess, you're

doing it wrong.

What makes you think excitement indicates scumminess?

Fine.

Are you a native English speaker? And what different platforms do you use to write posts?

Nope, English is my second language (out of three), though like you, I have been speaking it for almost all of my life.

If I am posting, I am either doing it from a laptop, or a tablet. Very very rarely will I post from a phone.

To answer you Arthur I am in two other games and also I have completed 3 games

Hmm, okay, so I checked myself, and your first game on site (I believe) was scum.

I was mainly wanting to check if you had landed a scum role for the first time, as this:

Where is everyone? I want to get this party started!!!

usually comes from a person who has landed scum for the first (in a very weak way), because they're usually excited to have landed the alignment (but different people react in different ways so etc). But, uh, yea, you've been scum before

[MP5]

That was from newbie 1315, now kwll first post and ser Arthur Dayne (the IC) response. Kwll was indeed scum.

Do you have any idea how annoying that was to post from a phone? Grr.

As you also point out KP96, when I voted for him, people were posting fluff (it was rvs). Would you prefer me to vote for someone based on a known possible scum tell, or fluff?

His reaction trying to assert there is no reason is a sucky defence. He is still the most probable scum in my eyes at the moment.

[MP5]

*goes away muttering something about "trying to teach them to fish ..."*

[MP5]

I 102% disagree with that hammer, not genuinely for reasons I can state, but whatever.

Muttley, if you are town, you now have a brief window to help us out before you are lynched. Do you have any last words to help us?

[MP5]

Damn you xiao for ruining xeg's fake hammer. I was about to tear xeg a new one for it, till I double checked and spotted his plan (did you like what I did in my last post xeg? )

I agree, Muttley is town guys, and so is xeg. Going to reread xiao tonight when I can get back to a laptop, something about his Omgus of me seems townie though, hmmm ...

UNVOTE:

@xiao - lets suppose my initial push on you was a reaction test. Would you classify the answer "is this a reaction test" as getting a pass mark or a fail?

[MP5]

Woah, hold up guys. Had just started going through everyone's ISO (short for "isolation", click the drop-down box at the bottom of any game thread where it has "Display posts by user" to read one person in isolation (or add another with the [ + ] sign)), was going to attempt some PoE as I have town reads on half of you, but I think I've caught scum in the very first person I was looking at alphabetically: Didi.

#11-#22: He throws on a joke vote, takes it off when his target complies, then after being questioned on that decides to be compliant and put his vote somewhere else. First instance of trying to "look town" I think, he attempts to avert any suspicion before it can even begin.

For now I feel TheSlimer is the most suspicious. He hasn't really contributed anything useful yet, and jokingaround posts like 'You're wrong about this videogame so YOU'RE SCUM OBVIOUSLY' are more often than not Mafia trying to blend in, in my experience.

Rearrange these words: black, pot, kettle, the, calling. Tries to create serious suspicion on someone for a crappy reason - what were you doing while you were asking Muttley to get an avatar and telling Xiao his formatting was annoying? "contributed anything useful" in there?

#56 he is overexplaining himself, I read as another instance of trying to "look town". If you're voting for pressure, you don't need to say (and in fact shouldn't tell) that it is for pressure. Explanations will come later, and if they have substance to them will stand any scrutiny, however I don't think you want any scrutiny.

But relax, if you're truly innocent I'm sure I'll come around and even if not, it's just 1 vote.

Ugh, this is horrible. You've got both of your bases covered here so that you don't look bad, whichever way it turns out; except that the whole tone of it reads as one yet again trying to "look town" but not attract any scrutiny.

#82-#118 - now the real scumhunting has begun, Didi changes his tack and instead of trying to pressure or build any sort of case, he becomes non-committal, and throws out general and vague suspicions.

Woah that escalated quickly while I was asleep.

Mutley had better fucking be scum.

Scum! Lynch this now.
VOTE: Didi
VOTE: Didi
VOTE: Didi
VOTE: Didi
VOTE: Didi

if Mutley isn't mafia though I don't know what to think

More non-committal stuff, still trying to throw suspicion back on to what I believe would have been a mislynch, but nothing substantial outside that.

I agree with Xeg, a mafia probably wouldn't be so brazen, this feels like town responses.

UNVOTE:


My gut atm says Kingpin and Slimer are the mafia team.
Both just throwing some stuff around left and right, but not really involved.

Really? Now you change your mind on Muttley after both Xeg and I read him as town, you got on to the scum-Muttley bandwagon, now you're trying to get on to the town-Muttley bandwagon quick enough. And then KingPin and slimer? You've twice tried to non-committally cast suspicion on slimer before but haven't mentioned anything else about him/her, and you haven't even mentioned KP all game.

Xeg is town, Muttley is town, Voodoo I'm pretty sure is town too. Might even throw slimer on to the town pile for now too as PoE. Based off interactions and how scummy they are in their own right, I've got FSnake/Spadille (although Spadille has helped this slot since coming in), KingPin, and Xiao as possible partners.

And after how I went at Xiao, I can't even believe I missed this:

Hello everybody. Excited to play my first game on this particular site. ^^

Lol.
No, in and of itself, excitement is not a fantastic indicator of scum (although it was nice to use as a little substance for pressure), but coupled with the rest and in hindsight, I think it did in this case come from scum.

[MP5]

I can see where you're coming from, but you're wrong.

Sorry. You convinced me.
UNVOTE:

So, I get it that you suspect me, but you're on the wrong track. I'm just a clueless townie.

Oh, undeniably. Irrefutable.

Guys, he said he is town. He must be.

I was actually expecting to get called out sooner

Hold on ... If you are town, then why would you expect to be called out? We're all working from the same pool of information, if there's nothing to deduce then we'd all be in the same boat and there wouldn't be anything to call you out on.

I don't like haikus
They're terribly annoying
And they suck

Well, not really ... A very cleverly crafted one can win my affection, but not many are.

Yes Muttley, sheep me on didi.

VOTE: Didi

[MP5]

Haikus are easy
But they don't always make sense
Hippopotamus

Didi, you should probably vote who you think is scummiest.

[MP5]

I understand Muttley's misread though, it took me two reads to work out exactly what Voodoo was originally saying, and two reads to get the wording of Muttley's reply. Thing is, "more likely than not" and "more than likely not" are so easy to confuse, look so similar to the eye on first glance but complete opposites.

Confident in his playstyle? His "playstyle" is the lack of confidence, which I read as less of a playstyle tell and more of an alignment tell. More tellingly, its when he becomes less confident - he confidently pushes on Muttley's wagon while it's rolling, more confidently tries to push it after it stops for a little bit, but leaves himself an out when he declares "if Mutley isn't mafia though I don't know what to think". The backflip between posts #152 and #187 is incriminating. Not to mention the awful reaction to the fake hammer.

@Didi - jump.

[MP5]

Muttley, my dear friend,
Pray do tell before the end
How slimer is scum

Meh, think I'm over the haikus now ...

Poetic licence
Only extends as far as
You can throw a fridge

[MP5]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: slimer

I'm not writing a reason.
Take the vote and interpret it as you wish.

[MP5]

Really, slimer? Complex?

Way I see it, its simple.
Lynch scum.

[MP5]

Muttley, what the heck is that?

[MP5]

I'm confused - stop ninja'ing me!

[MP5]

I'm implying your "the results are complex" line makes no sense. Not in a scummy way, in a silly way. What do you mean by that?

No, the only time we played together (briefly) was in micro 106 I think it was, masons and Mafia. You got run up to L-1, didn't shoot which proved you were town, then you replaced out. Scum went on to win because despite me pegging one of them bad, I was a mason and got shot by his partner, then town derped at the end suffice to say I didn't get enough of a chance to witness your play style much.

That's a little irrelevant though. You've chosen to take on the IC position. Your job here is basically to show "this is how its done here" by your example. There are many ways to do that, but being v/la for the most part then voting without explanation isn't a great example IMO. I might get to explaining what's scummy about it later.

P-edit: wtf is going on here ...

[MP5]

Micro 107, just double checked ...

[MP5]

That's why I coupled the "being v/la" with the "voting without reason" part. V/la in and of itself is completely fine and completely null, and could even potentially be a good example to newbies of how to properly catchup once you do get back. Instead, when you do return, is there any apology? Some. Any effort to catch up? Hmm, a wall hidden in spoilers I found hard to follow. But the vote itself is pretty awful, I just want some explaining done here.

I'm not holding anything against you except what you have said in this game.

[MP5]

OK, lets play this game, you've asked for it Let's take a look at your catchup, shall we? (my words/thoughts in bold)

I went through a lot of this with a hella lot of different thoughts throughout the whole ordeal, so I'll do my best to capture the things that stuck out to me and say what I was thinking there.

Since it's the quotes could flood the page, I'll put it all in a spoiler.

spoiler tag removed

But I'm not going to claim a role if I am not one, that's just stupid.

You're hinting pretty much the whole way that you're a PR, but you're not willing to claim because it's a lie? Sounds like a scum claim really.

OK, so by here, you're suspicious of Muttley. Cool. Nothing more to it than that.

I believe this is policy lynching, correct?
Not a good reason.

*snip*

Do you think you could
come up with a real reason
for voting for me?

also you are being very noobish your self in thinking that me claiming VT means I am scum. If I was scum I'd have claimed power role. It would likely have saved me for at least one day. If not it would have got that PR to have to counter the claim. Giving vital info to the other scum.

Some scum can't handle being a fake PR because they fear that a cop or someone would discover them. And he's not being noobish, get use to being over analyzed if you want to play this game. It's the only way to get the truth. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it gets the wrong person lynched. In your case, he may be on to something, because you indeed WERE hinting PR.

Not so cool. Now, you're looking for the scum-motivation in claiming VT, or at least trying to discredit the town-motivation in it. Vaguely throwing around suspicion without being decisive about it. Is Muttley scum because of it - yes or no?

Ive said why I am accepting it. I don't care for being the first one lynched because you guys can hopefully get some info from the last few hours exchange. plus someone has to go its only a game.

UNVOTE:
I like you.

A pull off like this seems a bit odd from my angle.
Especially when you're pressing like you were, and how his reactions did not seem so great, you end your pursuit. Could this possibly be merciful scum?
Rare, but nonetheless a strategy.

Again, not cool. Vague suspicion on Xeg. You think what he did would be rare for scum to do? Fine. Is he scum because of it? Yes or no. Stop throwing vague suspicion around.

I don't particularly like how you think his reactions are townish though when I found them to be quite scummy actually. Would you mind sharing so we can be on the same page?

Hmm, I thought he already did. Mind sharing why you think they are scummy? And, do you want to be on the same page with someone who should supposedly be of unknown alignment to you? I'm not surprised that Xeg would ignore this question.

Reads, Mut is confirmed town in my book. I love his responses. So arrogant and stubborn. Scum is NEVER like this. Not in my experience. Scum is fickle and trying to look good. ALWAYS. Mut isn't scum. He's not afraid to say no. This makes him look so shit to everyone but soo town to me.

Oh? Could you have this perspective because you yourself are mafia?

Lynch this already. He is actively trying to determine players' alignments, and you are throwing vague suspicion his way? When IMO, at that point of the game he was possibly the most pro-townie player?

Who doesn't like being scum? Well I'm sure there's some. But as this place is called mafiascum I'm sure most sign up to games hoping to be scum (I sure did). Then a PR then town.

I actually don't. I use to love it, but now it's a drag to have xD

IIoA. Is this game a drag to you?

I believe this is policy lynching, correct?
Not a good reason.

*snip*

Do you think you could
come up with a real reason
for voting for me?

Did you... Did you mean for that to be a haiku..?

Did you... Did you mean for that to be meaningful...?

I meant to say that I had misjudged an IC before and although you are a null tell i will always have this one game in mind. But I changed my mind a little bit over this the last days. (About my english, if somebody thinks my bad english is hurting the game I will ask to be replaced. I want to enjoy this and so do you all. I don’t want to burden you all because I think I can get better in english while playing)

Oh, no no, buddy, don't worry about replacing out! Just proof read a little before you send. It can be rather hard for people to know what you're saying if you don't say it correctly, but it's not a disruption xD

Ok, you say goodbye. That's nice.

Yes Fsnake the scum or at least one is likely to be hiding in the midst knowing that I would be an easy lynch. Which is why I am very much looking at Kingpin. He was around but never voted me even though he thinks I am scum or anti-town. Maybe because he knows I am going to flip town and therefore won't be looked at too much after cos he wasn't on the wagon.

This appears to be your main argument. And for that, I'd say you're probably town for that. Because noob scum wouldn't use this.

Here! This! slimer says that Muttley is "probably town"!!

(sorry for the pinkishness, I wanted straight red but I thought it might be a little close to the mod's colour)

#98

>Initially thinks MP5 is just reation hunting by using crappy logic.
>Votes him anyway

#55
Also:

>Knows what a pressure vote is and how it helps.
>Still thinks FSnake is scummy for voting for pressure.

This story stops once he was called out. An interesting reaction.

#113 and #120
These posts tells us a story of how our boy, Xiao Long, evolves. Even though he tells us that quickly jumping on wagons are scummy, he does so. With what reason? The same reason he keeps defending himself of, not scumhunting.

#125
125 is a story of Pontius Pilate washing his hands for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

All that fluff and it only looks like you're pressing for a bad reason. This honestly makes me think you're scum with your bad reasoning.

Decides Spadille is scummy for "bad reasoning". What about the reasoning is bad? It's vague suspicion again.

Pretty sure on of king pin or xiao are mafia. If not both.

VOTE:

xiao long

Mainly because he keeps calling everyone a cunt. Whereas at least kingpin is nice.

...

Thanks for the ellipsis. What does it mean? Especially since Muttley as of a few posts ago is your *only townread*

For me kingpin is likely mafia due to his not wanting to hammer me. He didnt want to get looked at as the final blow so was waiting for someone else. He lurked a bit and didnt get involved in the exchanges. If he is mafia he knew all I was doing was being 'anti town' therefore was happy to reinforce his opinion in it. So that the town would look at it as in a oh he was right etc He's not mafia!

You I feel are mafia because again you wanted me gone, but also tries to get me to defend myself. Knowing that I would flip town it would make you look town too even though you voted me. Also you posts that have been brought up previously about not thinking you look scummy. You are obviously worried about trying not to look scummy and not just playing the game knowing you don't need to lie because you are town and have nothing to hide.

As you feel the need to call someone a cunt I feel I'd rather vote you over king pin.
Also I feel you've changed slightly since votes have come off me because of my arrogance and stubbornness. You seem to be playing yourself towards that role too. So that you can use that defence of 'well you saw mutley as town because of that post style why not me?'

I honestly forgot my thoughts here.

That's helpful. I'll remind you then. You thought

Muttley was town

You blatantly stated the only reason you voted for me over Kingpin was because I called you a cunt. This means you voted for me because I called you a cunt. While it may be true that me and Kingpin are equally scummy in your eyes, the point still stands that you only voted me over him because I called you a cunt. If you wanted me to think your vote was legit, you should probably have left that part out of it.

Here's the thing, I may not be playing the way people expect me to, but I'm STILL PLAYING. YOU, on the other hand, were ignoring everything and NOT PLAYING AT ALL. Trolling isn't playing, it's trolling, and that's exactly what you were doing. So go fuck your pot/kettle analogy.

Calm it down a bit. o.o

Cool, nice IC'ing here. It's hidden away in spoilers so they might not see it, but you've stepped in and done your part. Now, where's the analysis?

And this changes everything, doesn't it? You assume you are the newest player? Boy, you literally claimed that you initially thinks he is 'reation hunting by using crappy logic'.

He should take some lessons from you then, ah?

...

Scums trying to fit in town, doing what town wants him to do and quickly changes. Strong scum tell.

Examples of this pls.

Who even wrote this? I'm not the least bit surprised that whoever you were asking this question to ignored you, as it's hidden in spoilers and doesn't address the person in question (I still don't even know who it is and am not going to be bothered going to look for it). Your catchup wall is wasted, weak, and if it was intended to express some great insights or pose great pressure, it has failed.

Did you completely ignore the entire Mutley ordeal? The dude was clearly being anti-town and ruining the game by being a cunt in general. Are you implying this is what I'm doing? I voted Mutley because I thought him being at L-1 would make him stop ruining the game. It's not that hard to comprehend.

I did not. But you didn't, did you? Clearly after building up some tension with your exchange with MP5, you needed someone to 'scumhunt' and use as a scapegoat. Mutley would be perfect for you.

What? Mutley deserved that. We got the info we needed out of him. And even if it wasn't mutley, who? The art of scumhunting is attacking someone for information or luring them into a logical trap. Seeing as how we were pretty much fresh out of RVS pretty much, you couldn't really just attack the first person you saw and called them scum. As mafia or as town, that wouldn't make sense. So what are you talking about here?

Finally, something I can call "cool" again, but again, who is it to? Did you want them to address something, and can you blame them for not finding it/feeling compelled to respond to it?

Also, a quick warning for your scum-buddy. If you want to look like as if you are a town, please do not play this game by just defending yourself. Learn to town.

Stop using fallacy of "You're scum, so that's why you act this way" because it's NEVER a good way to find information. Always keep an open mind to the truth.

Agreed. Pat on the head. I actually 100% agree with you on this.

scummy behavior as just being his playstyle

Mind telling me exactly what scummy behaviour is?

@Mod, do you think you can contact slimer to see when his V/LA will end?

I told him it would be till next Christmas so you could have me as a gift

LOL.

Please ignore the first post, I accidently pressed send instead of preview e.e

So that's what I think of your wall. Not that it will do a whole lot of good, because it's too long and perhaps only you and I will read and analyse the whole thing. That's why I've highlighted in red(ish pink) the part where you say

Muttley is town

. You then go on to vote him 3 posts later, for no reason????

@slimer - what changed to make you think Muttley was scum? I haven't seen it, and have clearly stated my position on him. If you think you are right, then you will need to convince myself and also Xeg (as he is in the same boat).

Personally, I think you've scum slipped. Your wall was doing nothing but throw vague suspicion at multiple people (who you don't even pressure with any sort of meaningful question or analysis), you haven't given a single townread except for the one guy you are now voting, and you aren't committing to any other read or course of action. It's seriously scum-motivated to not want to clear anybody (as this narrows the field for mislynches), and also to create or foster suspicion among multiple players (to widen the field for mislynches).

Guys, I'm calling the scum team for now as slimer/Didi.

[MP5]

Muttley, are you going to try to help or not? Yes/no

[MP5]

Omgus stands for "Oh My God You Suck". Basically, it's a knee-jerk vote back on to someone who has just voted you:

Player A: I think player B is scum because of xyz, vote player B
Player B: No you're wrong you must be scum, vote player A

That's the most simple form of it.

Congratulations frog, you win at town. Will go through your post more thoroughly later, but this is how it's done, people. One thing I did notice though frog is you seemed to read people just by their iso, I noticed a couple of mistakes in how you read me, some things were better understood in context.

Bah, frog long beat me to it. Had the game open in my phone browser, was writing this inbetween being busy n stuff.

[MP5]

Hi Mac, nice of you to continue the town I had on Xeg, saves me the headache of looking at another replacement ... @NicCage, I know what you mean re: new game. With the Muttley-Xiao thing, I'm not surprised frankly, but I'm determined to see it out (no matter how tired I am ...)

@slimer, I voted for you because you couldn't decide who scum was, couldn't contribute anything helpful to help find scum, and then decide to vote for the one guy you had as a town read (that was the scum slip I was speaking of). You don't come across as anything but serious when you tell him "You're 2 votes away from being lynched", that was intended to create serious lynch pressure, and then you backoff later with saying you were testing his reaction and that it was somehow complex?

Who is scum? It can't be that complex.

As far as the slimer's weak defense whatever, I think he's saying that your accusations of him are so ridiculous that they don't warrant a proper response. Take from that what you will. I can't criticise him for that, cause I think I did something similar to MP5.

There is a difference though, Xiao. Do you

actually

think these accusations are so ridiculous that they don't warrant a proper response? I find them strong enough to want him lynched, and he is now at L-1. I'm almost happy to concede that my original accusation on you was frivolous enough that your lack of response wasn't terrible. Personally, my thoughts are that my accusations are much more serious now.

Yeah that doesn't make much sense.
MP5, if slimer is scum, who do you think his partner is?

If slimer flips scum, then I will make a much greater effort to look at the interactions between slimer and the rest of you, but I won't waste my time until then. If he did, Didi is still a scum read, however I feel that frog has influenced me a little with his view on Didi so I may turn this around if I see Didi's slot improve. Not swayed by his thoughts on Muttley yet though.

Xeg/Mac is town, Muttley is town, frog is town (despite KP), Voodoo prob town, Xiao lagging somewhere inbetween. Didi and Fsnake/Spadille/you (NicCage) would be the two I would look most closely at next.

[MP5]

Muttley, you're what the term "policy lynch" was invented for. I don't even care what your alignment is anymore, you're hurting us by being alive and short of me having a Cop not guilty on you (which of course I don't), there's no way I would let you get to Lylo.

He's now at L-2, consider my vote on him but for the fact he has threatened to hammer himself. I'm a little with Mac and a little with Didi here, I want to hear more from the Town before I'm down with lynching Muttley, but it doesn't need to drag on too long - don't let ourselves become entranced with WIFOM.

NicCage, what do you mean by "I had xiao and mutley turned around"? How do you know read Xiao in light of Muttley, and will this change whether Muttley flips town/scum?

[MP5]

Muttley, if you are Town, Do Not hammer yourself. It only helps scum go through another day without giving up any information.

Didi, quite a hypothesis you have there. Scum don't have daytalk though, so Xeg couldn't have tried to plan Muttley's defence for him - so reactions would have been off the cuff, so to speak. Personally I found Xeg to be very townish, and I don't have any reservations with Mac thus far, so I'm not buying it.

@Xiao - does Didi still read scum to me? Well, his play has improved today, its not as strong of a read as yesterday. How do you see him?