Newbie 1345: Mafia in a Bind (Game Over)

[Mac]

Hi guys!

Will catch up soon, after some lunch.

[Mac]

Did a quick recap and am going to explain some stuff I didn't like.

Spoiler: wall

Duly noted though that you came to his defense.

There something wrong with me 'coming to someones defence'? I saw your reason for being suspicious as a null tell and so i pointed it out. Would you rather i keep my mouth shut when i see something i dont agree with?

Not in particular, though of course people who know eachother's allegiance to be the same are more likely to stick up for eachother, and right now that's only the mafia.
But I'm not prohibiting you from talking, on the contrary, a silent town is a doomed town, so please, keep talking.

I am sticking a vote on you for now though because you're reacting overly defensive (in my eyes) to just a tiny bit of pressure.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Xegarus



FSnake, whose side are you on?

Ok, I don't like this post. At all. Not only are townpeople likely to stick up for their townreads, but mafia will stick up for town to gain towncred/tie themselves in with town people. Just pointing it out, it's a bit flawed your logic.

Also you then target FSnake and ask what side he's on. what? why?

Maybe you didn't see it because it was at the bottom of my post, but I'll ask it again:

FSnake, whose side are you on?

Again, what? why?

It means the game will begin in full effect soon, my friend

slimer adding fuel to the flames of xega/xiao and somehow incorporating Fsnake into it. I'm not sure how or why Fsnake comes into this at all other than xiao asking him which side he's on. it's like he's trying to push the three of you into a battle he can watch from the side. If slimer flips scum, xiao is scum or all three are town I think. xiao is the only legit scum I'd consider because he brought Fsnake into it for nothing and then slimer continued the trend of having Fsnake into it.

Right there is never going to be a lot to go on day 1. Mafia unlikely to slip up as they will know who they are and be careful on what they say. Obviously. If I had to pick, I would go with a choice of 4 at the moment. The slimer. MP5, snake and kingpin. No real suspicious though, could have easily have just random generated those and got as good a guess.

I don't know why you picked four without suspicion here.

I put something out there straight away. Knowing it would be picked up on, but not said out loud. Which would mean the mafia wasted a kill if they picked up on it (therefore I have slightly helped the town) or this would happen they would pick up on it and be happy to get me lynched. You seem very eager for it so I'd happily say you were mafia now.

So you breadcrumbed a PR then retracted the fake claim? I don't like that, it's like you crumbed it as scum then retracted it for an excuse for Xeg (me) to be hammering you and try and flip suspicion onto him. don't do that if you are town, ever. You could be scum for that.

You thought you had ended it, you didn't realise your vote was already on me. You thought you had taken a power role out first day mr mafia.

A power role would have had more motivation to defend themselves and scumhunt. You have pretty much done neither.

I'm not a power role. I said he thought he had taken one out. also in previous games when being a power role surely scumhunting too much early on is more likely to make you a kill target and therefore you would be killed and losing the town a big weapon.

I don't understand why you are trying to attract the mafia nk. that's not very town, is it?

ok notes:

Xiao is really aggressive. and despite saying this is his first game of mafia, he seems to know what a policy lynch is. hmm. Why so aggressive Xiao?

slimer is probably scum. I think we need to lynch him today.

Muttley could be scum. I thought he was town originally from his "you can lynch me, I'm town and someone needs to be lynched d1" but that's not quite townish to offer to be the lynch on d1 when we could be lynching scum.

mp5 reads town, I like him.

[Mac]

Didi could also be scum, I should note that down.

aaaand finally: VOTE: Slimer

[Mac]

No, because when you are inevitably left alive we are left with doubts. It would probably go like this: "Why hasn't Mutley been killed; why is he crumbing power roles; he could be scum; lynch" and if you are town, obviously this is a waste.

You see where I'm going, right? It allows the mafia to use your comment as WIFOM.

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

[Mac]

Mutley should probably be todays lynch.

VOTE: Mutley

[Mac]

talk about trolling. lynch please. even if you are town, you have to go.

I was just about to explain WIFOM to you, but I don't think I'll bother since you don't seem too fussed

[Mac]

frog please vote mutley.

[Mac]

Just do it.

he's also ruined the game by the way if he is scum and mp5 is his buddy.

[Mac]

VOTE: Mutley

[Mac]

If I get to L-1 I will lynch myself. Then I can save my other mafia buddy, that way he will have a free ride to the end. you fools. How did you not know I was mafia from the start

I don't think anything else needs to be said.

[Mac]

Huh?

[Mac]

Just lynch the guy. What else are you going to get other than mindless trolling?

[Mac]

Why do you think I want this lynch done quickly? Have you seen the guys recent posts? I don't think we'll get a legible sentence out of him, let alone any scumslips/details about his partner.

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

I have some answer when I return from work.

[Mac]

Some thoughts then.

I've explained why I wanted Mutley lynched. I stand by that, but in hindsight, Didi was correct that we should've let everyone talk first. That's my mistake.

Here's how I saw Didi's reaction (you aren't the only one with crazy theories!)

> Mutley hammers/admits scum/claims cop bla bla
> someone pushes for the lynch immediately (that's me)
> Scum buddy uses this to pressure the person pushing for quick lynch (that's Didi pressuring me)

So I was all for Didi being Mutley's scum buddy now, especially with the added WIFOM of Mutley calling him scum. But then he townslipped. Not sure if that's legit or scum faking but it's enough right now for me to move past him today. Although I'd be waring of taking him to LyLo right now.

frog is quite suspicious for me too, prior to Equinox confirming that Mutley had voted slimer, he was quite reluctant to vote Mutley until finding out if Mutley had hammered slimer. I found that quite suspicious, purely because Mutley had already admitted being mafia.

MP5 reads town, probably is town but again, I'm wary of Mutley WIFOMing with him by telling us not to listen to him.

NicCage is a null read at the moment, and again, Xiao

could

be scum, but I'm not sure at the minute.

[Mac]

frog is quite suspicious for me too, prior to Equinox confirming that Mutley had voted slimer, he was quite reluctant to vote Mutley until finding out if Mutley had hammered slimer. I found that quite suspicious, purely because Mutley had already admitted being mafia.

I was right in doing that, since it was unclear whether his post counted as a hammer or not. In retrospect it did and no votes/unvotes after that counted anyway. Should I have voted Mutley at that point?

Did it matter whether his vote hammered or not? he admitted he was maf.

[Mac]

The thing I don't get is, you didn't have anything to lose from it. If you voted Mutley after (like I did) then the mod would've just discounted it and moved on - it's not like we would've gained a warning. I kinda get the feeling, if you are scum, you MAY have wanted to wait and see there was a chance for your scumbuddy Mutley to survive the lynch before bussing him if there wasn't a chance.

[Mac]

If I get to L-1 I will lynch myself. Then I can save my other mafia buddy, that way he will have a free ride to the end. you fools. How did you not know I was mafia from the start

What part of this isn't a claim, frog?

[Mac]

The part where it is quite clearly trolling, as you yourself demonstrate in the post following that one.

Assuming theslimer wasn't lynched:
What part of waiting and having a week left of D1 is scummy?

Assuming slimer wasn't lynched, we lynch the guy who admits he's mafia. But that's not what you did. You explicitly stated you were waiting for mod to confirm if slimer had been lynched before voting Mutley.

I don't want to do anything just yet, at least not before Equinox comes in. Assuming the day isn't over at that point I will join you on the Mutley lynch.

The point I'm making here is: there wasn't much at stake. Even if we all had built a wagon on Mutley and reached a majority, it would've been nullified. So you had nothing to lose. Unless Mutley was your scum buddy, you didn't want to vote him unless you had to bus him.

[Mac]

I just don't understand it.

You wouldn't have hammered Mutley. At all, would've L-2? Maybe L-1. Plus the guy deserves to have been lynched, and still does. And you keep changing your story from "wait and see what the mod says before I vote Mutley" to "we still had ages to the deadline."

If (when?) Mutley flips scum, frog is probably his buddy.

VOTE: Mutley

[Mac]

Okay guys: here's the deal. I am vanilla. You can choose whether or not you believe this, but if you are town, placing a vote on me loses the game.

Mutley was an inevitable lynch. I was posting from my phone and didn't realise he was going to self-hammer. And yes, this did make me think he was scum. Idiot. Anyway, it's likely that scum didm't vote Mutley as they knew the inevitable was coming.

#461 - I look scummy for pushing Mutley and frg being buddies? Surely this indicates I did not know Mutley would flip town?

I'll point out Didi's possible town slip tomorrow, I need a re-read when I'm posting from a computer.

[Mac]

#419 is Didi's townslip.

#415 is where Xiao Long starts calling mutley scum and ends with "there's a good chance he's town and just trolling us." If that's not scum looking for town cred when he inevitably flipped town I don't know what is. Note he was still voting for Mutley too.

Read #436 and #439.

"I can't be scum, I would've killed Mac!!!!"

Mutley:

"Mac would be kept alive for pushing my lynch on d2"

Xiao:

"That doesn't make sense!!!"

It made perfect sense. Xiao is scum.

[Mac]

Xiao, if you were town, you wouldn't be telling me to vote for you.

[Mac]

And the key word is LIKELY. Then I read back and saw a case against Xiao.

The thing is: Mutley made perfect sense.

By the way, the reason Xiao is telling me to vote him is so he can say "look, I haven't been quickhammered, Mac is maf."

[Mac]

No, that doesn't make sense. If he thinks I'm the maf, he should place a vote on me. But he doesn't - because when there's no quickhammer it proves me or him is scum.

Again, if you think I'm scum, vote for me.

Then vote for me.

These are not town posts. If he is town, he's asking me to vote him instead of proving why he isn't scum. This is Xiao trying to frame me.

[Mac]

Scum won't hammer me because you are scum.

[Mac]

Yeah Nic looks scummy there. Well done for unvoting.

You won't get many more posts from me tonight, I'm going out. Try not to lynch town please.

[Mac]

Can you guys wait for me? I won't be here tonight and most of tomorrow.

I'm also not maf. Why would I push the lynch of town mutley when he was digging himself a grave and bound to be lynched. Ask yourself that. And look at my scum-meta. I'm not stupid like that.

Anyway, I'm off.

[Mac]

It's NicCage ffs. Look at the terrible sheeping o Xiao's vote.

Plus he's misrepping me. I said Didi townslipped

but that could be newb town or faking scum.

if he was town, would he keep his vote on me?

VOTE: NicCage

[Mac]

"You need to die first."

Ridiculous. Stop it, are you Nic's buddy? If you lynch me, we lose. It's that simple. And I'm pretty sure you know that.

Xiao is probably town now - he could've unvoted me. My case wasn't even that bad. Not as bad as Nic who utterly sheeped Xiao and voted me in preparation for a quicklynch.

Everyone ask yourself a question. WHY WOULD I QUICKLYNCH MUTLEY IF I WAS SCUM? That was unnecessary; he was already a dead man walking. I'll admit, I derped

a little

ALOT and I apologise to the town for that. But you have to vote Nic here.

[Mac]

I need to get back to a PC; I'm posting from a phone at the moment so will do when I'm back.

But scum didn't need to quick lynch mutley when it was inevitable. I derped, I know. I apologise, but now I'm trying to make it up to the town and win us the game.

Ask yourself: why is Nic's vote still on me? Because he's been caught in a web after sheeping Xiao.

[Mac]

VOTE: Mac I think Xiao is right

These your own reasons Nic?

[Mac]

When did I say that?

And your vote post says "I think Xiao is right" not "I'm voting him for reasons already stated."

[Mac]

Because I thought Xiao had a plan and was trying tp frame town to vote me once I voted him, so I didn't.

[Mac]

No, I clearly explained that I thought Ciao was trying to make me vote him so he could say "look, I haven't been hammered, Mac =scum"

[Mac]

Bullshit.

Everyone, think of this from my position (and, just assume that my role is definitely town, regardless of what you think I am right now)

> Says Xiao could be suspicious, could be scum.
> Xiao says vote me, vote me twice. (bare in mind, at this point, I think he is scum)
> Heavily-suspected-scum me thinks "hmmm, mafia trying to get me to vote so he can show everyone I'm scum when he isn't quickhammered."
> Ask Xiao why he wants me to vote and doesn't vote me instead (legit question - come on guys.)
> Xiao does vote, and then NicCage sheeps the fuck out of it.

Nic is scum. I'm not trying to frame anyone, he's just trying to weasel his way out of a lynch.

And I think this is being ignored: why would I encourage a quickhammer of Mutley if I was scum and knew he was town? AND knew he would be lynched eventually? I know I derped putting him at L-1, it's my fault and if we lose this I will shoulder all of the blame. But we can at least last one more day if we vote Nic.

[Mac]

That's not what I'm saying at all.

If SCUMXIAO encourages HEAVILYSUSPECTEDSCUMBUTSTILLTOWNMAC to vote him, IF I DID VOTE XIAO, then Xiao could easily manipulate this and say "Look, no quickhammer, Mac is scum, lynch." This would not result in a quickhammer if he was the scum and he would know that and use it to his advantage because I'm so suspect. THIS WOULD GET TOWN ON MY WAGON. Then all he needs is his scumbuddy and scum win. How hard is this for you too grasp?

I didn't vote Xiao because I thought it was a trap.

Last paragraph doesn't even make sense, stop talking shit. That does NOT answer my question of "why would I effectively hammer Mutley if I could've waited for the inevitable to be done by others?"

[Mac]

Also, I reckon Xiao is pretty much conftown for me, Spadille replaced in and immediately pushed him and so did Nic.

Can't see scum bussing like that, plus he unvoted follow NicCage's ridiculous sheeping vote. Town move.

[Mac]

Limit discussion of what, Nic? Who Mutley's scumbuddy could be? WHEN MUTLEY WASN'T EVEN SCUM?

Of course I'm going to stick to my guns, I know you are scum.

[Mac]

By the waaaay guys. I voted Mutley with my first post, and so did Nic.

I unvoted later before re-voting so don't give me this quicklynch bullshit when you are as bad as me, if not worse. The guy is scum.

[Mac]

Are people missing the part where I thought Xiao would manipulate it if he were scum to get one town on the wagon and then his buddy to win?

Frog/Xiao/Didi - why would scumMac quickhammer Mutley?

[Mac]

And the discussion would be who his partner could be...? If he was town, that would be irrelevant discussion which scum would want to go on.

And regardless, Nic was also on the Mutley wagon.

[Mac]

Jesus, this is like fighting with a brick wall.

My point is Xiao and Nic could've unvoted too, but didn't.

[Mac]

I admit I fucked up, if town lose here it's entirely my fault.

That was because I thought Mutley was scum, and now we know he's town. That just further prows I didn't actually know his role as I was accusing you of being buddies.

[Mac]

Are people missing the part where I thought Xiao would manipulate it if he were scum to get one town on the wagon and then his buddy to win?

Frog/Xiao/Didi - why would scumMac quickhammer Mutley?

[Mac]

Because most people see me as scum right now?

Stop playing dumb.

[Mac]

Come on town.

Look at Nic sheeping Xiao. It's so damn obviously scum. He's trying to co-ordinate with his buddy without daytalk and cover it with "yeah, I think Xiao is right" - note how he didn't say "I've stated my opinion already"

I'll answer anyone else later. But all you need is that blatant sheeping to know Nic is scum.

[Mac]

Anyone wanna get some discussion going?

Xiao, frog, Didi - your thoughts?

[Mac]

Didi there is no way this is town v town because if we were both town and voting each other, scum could just vote either of us, reach the lynch and win. Theres no need for them to do that and drag this out.

Obviously I know my role and Nic is confscum, it's just trying to a) show you guys he is and that I'm just an idiot and b) judging the reactions to determine his scumbuddy.

[Mac]

At what point did I say you were legit scum?

[Mac]

Doesnt say you're scum at all?

[Mac]

The key words are "if slimer flips scum" and the only reason I called you "legit scum" there was because, of the three names there, you were the only person I considered who could be scum with slimer.

You say I'm flopping around but I said both slimer and Mutley could be scum and then changed from slimer > Mutley after Mutley did the hammer thing.

[Mac]

Mac replaces and gives his reads and votes Slimer who we all now know was town cop. Mac has followed Xeg in the flip-floppy area. He starts by thinking Slimer is scum and should be lynched, then says Mutley is scum and should be lynched. He also stated I was the only legit scum in post 371. He continues this thought process after both Mutley and Slimer are gone until I unvote him and he thinks I'm town.

Please explain how this is flip-floppy. The only people I have voted for were slimer and Mutley. Both incorrectly but that's not flip-floppy.

Slimer was a mistake: he was just being slimer. Annoying and really scummy but actually town. I did say at one point he was "being slimer" iirc but he was acting peculiar.

Then Mutley did his hammer/unvote and I decided that Mutley should be day one's lynch but slimer went before.

Then came day two.

Here's the funny thing:

The purpose of you wanting to quicklynch Mutley is to limit discussion, the purpose of you effectively hammering Mutley was to end the day early and limit discussion.

> Nic posted after me at the start of day two, also voting Mutley.
> I removed my vote from Mutley, Nic didn't. (Neither did Xiao; another time)

Nic pushed a quicklynch as much as me without actually saying it.

He was letting me take the lead and sheeping me.

Again, I absolutely implore you all to ask yourselves, why would I push for a quicklynch of someone WHO WAS NOT SCUM? The town was searching for Mutley's partner when in fact there were still two others out there. If anything, I did the town a favour. Obviously it was stupid and I regret doing it but the hypocrisy of Nic saying that and then doing the exact same thing should tell you he is the scum here trying to get me lynched.

He's been totally misrepping me saying I read Didi as town when in fact the townslip has nudged me in that direction, not made me think Didi is outright town.

Plus he's misrepping me. I said Didi townslipped

but that could be newb town or faking scum.

And again, just to show you even more scumminess:

VOTE: Mac I think Xiao is right

This effectively says "I'm sheeping townXiao (LIKELY) to get the scum win!"

Come on town. I know I've been an idiot but all the arrows point towards Nic.

[Mac]

THE DISCUSSION OF THE DAY WOULD BE WHO WAS MUTLEY'S SCUM PARTNER.

MUTLEY WAS NOT EVEN SCUM.

WHY WOULD SCUM ME QUICKLYNCH THAT WHEN THE DISCUSSION WAS IRRELEVANT? WHY WOULD SCUM ME STOP TOWN MAKING UP FALSE LINKS BETWEEN MUTLEY AND WHOEVER?

considering quotes like these:

I can't see Mac and Mutely being scum together, not given their current interactions.

it's a stupid theory. I voted Mutley because I hadn't realised he would hammer himself. I unvoted him originally because you asked.

I just totally answered Xiao's criticism of me in the very post before yours, explain how that's shying away from from scrutiny?

I've made my cases and pointed out why Nic's scum. I know I derped, I've probably lost town the game so I apologise. I notice you call me scum but don't vote..

Wouldn't be surprised by a frog and Nic scum team.

[Mac]

You can quite clearly see the dubious nature of his actions and the fact that so few of them are explained. When scrutiny appears he's just repeated his points rather than addressed the rebuttal (scumMac would hammer Mutley to limit discussion and lynch a townie, we've been through this many times with no reasoning on his part as to why this interpretation is wrong).

Bullshit, I just explained AND asked questions a post or so above yours which you ignored. Answer me that.

At least you got one thing right by calling Nic scum.

I'll address other points when I have time.

[Mac]

I'll de-bunk that when I have more access, because it's all terrible.

I will say one thing though: me wrongly linking frog and Mutley shows I didn't know his alignment. If I were scum, Why would I push so hard to wrongly link frog to someone I knew would flip town?

[Mac]

@ Mod

- going to have limited access for a couple of days.

[Mac]

It wasn't a non-reason though, was it? frog didn't want to vote Mutley until it was confirmed if slimer was hammered. I thought Mutley was scum. I thought frog was his buddy not wanting to be hammered.

And yeah, you just totally tripped over your own words. 10 posts ago I was pushing for a quicklynch to end the day fast and now I was wasting time and generating discussion?

[Mac]

I'm still here! Struggling for time. And motivation.

[Mac]

That doesn't really make sense since it wouldn't have mattered whether or not frog voted Mutley, and he said he would have if slimer hadn't been hammered.
You weren't generating real discussion, even if Mutley had been scum your reason against frog didn't make sense and you still ended the day without investigating any other player. Didi put out the opinion that Mutley shouldn't be quicklynched, you disagreed, and Didi's position got more support. So instead you pretended to scumhunt for awhile and then ended the day once you felt that enough time had passed.

(From memory)

Mutley; I am mafia.
Mac; Let's vote Mutley now, not slimer, regardless of whether he has hammered or no. He has admitted mafia.
frog; No, I want to see if slimer has been hammered yet.

You can see where I came from, right? It's not hard. If Mutley

had

been mafia, it's perfectably reasonable for me to assume frog was trying to protect his buddy for one more night.

I can't even begin to tell you how much bullshit you are talking. I feel it's pretty obvious what I was going for at the above and pretty much proves I didn't know Mutley's alignment: why would I push for frog and Mutley scum team pretty hard if I knew Mutley was going to flip town? Why would I make links, "pretend discussion" whilst I knew it would be irrelevant when Mutley flipped?

Again, as much as I have derped around in this game, I'm not that much of an idiot to paint such a target on my head.

[Mac]

It isn't reasonable though. Why wouldn't you push for it? Your scumpartner is still out there, and I suspect that your and Didi's disagreement was meant to gain Didi towncred. I mean look at Didi's first posts D3, being suspicious of you as the rest of the town was, yet keeping his options wide open to vote for anybody (466). He even agreed with you over Xiao and directly backed up the same thing that you are using for your defense right now (471).

It is reasonable if you read the posts. Not sure what you mean by "why wouldn't you push for it?" - is that your effort of discrediting my case?

But I'll bite; let's assume for a second that I am scum.

scumMac will know Mutley will flip town. This means that me quicklynching him would be stupid, and me pushing frog as his buddy would also be stupid. Comprende, so far? That's stupid scum play, and whilst I've had a pretty dumb game here, I'm MUCH more cautious as scum. Of course you can say "lol, changed your ways" but I've admitted my mistakes and tried to point us in the right direction for this lynch. Whilst I defend and continue to attack you, all you can say is "why wouldn't you push for it?" That just shows you have no counter-argument: you are scum.

I actually agree about 466 being pretty scummy but I'm not sure about what you mean about "directly backed up" - he admitted that I made a good point about not knowing Mutley's alignment because I was pushing the COMPLETE wrong team. Note this entire conversation was between me and him - "directly backing up" would be someone like Xiao/you/frog busting in and saying what I said.

I did feel Xiao looked scummy at the time; this was further backed by the "vote for me" scandal. But when Xiao did vote for me, he unvoted the second you sheeped his vote in the worst possible manner.

Just for everyone else who still doesn't realise Nic is scum.

I've seen scum self lynch a couple times, though one was a ragequit. It's useful for scum not to make their partner hammer or not give up information, something like that. But yeah, what Mutley did was totally useless to us.

So yeah, it's lylo, sounds like you all realize it already, so just be careful with your vote.

I'm still leaning toward Didi being scum, and I'd still like mac to tell me what he thought Didi's towntell was.

(Note: no word of me being scum here, this is his first post of the day)

I don't think #419 is a strong towntell. Didi flips around a bunch on reads early D1 without really trying to follow through on any of them. He's sure Mutley is scum, then back off once Xeg and MP5 read him as town. MP5 makes a case on Didi, and Didi's defense is that he doesn't really know what he's doing. Ok, I can live with that.
But later in the day Didi sheeps MP5 and frog on slimer without any hesitation or scumhunting, he see's it as an easy lynch.
Onto D2, he stops Mac wanting a quicklynch, which is a town thing to do, but when he says he wants more information he doesn't go out and make any. All he does is pose a far fetched scenario. I think this is an attempt to pick up towncred while waiting out the inevitable Mutley lynch.

That said, Mac has been asserting some really weird stuff lately. The point about frog's voting was never valid, and he carried it far too long.
Also, how is Xiao telling you to vote him any different from what you just did? You're saying if he thinks you're mafia he should vote you, and that's exactly the argument he's making.

I didn't think Didi and Mac could be scum together though

so I'll have to reassess my scumteam reads

Second post of the day: again doesn't directly call me scum. Says he thinks Didi could be scum in his first post of the day, and then comes out with this.

And then post 3:

VOTE: Mac I think Xiao is right

This is so much like sheeping scum it's unreal. "Let's be careful with our votes" and then he hops on the first town wagon he can hammer as soon as.

You should all note how his cases on me come

after

he's placed the vote and it hasn't worked out to his advantage (ie he didn't hammer me and win.)

[Mac]

Point out your counterargument please.

In 481 you listed a whole bunch of reasons why Didi could be scum, similarly in 468, and you end by saying it's unlikely we are the scum team which suggests to me, given the massive paragraphs about Didi and so little about me, you felt him more scummy than me. You didn't say my behaviour was scummy; you said "weird."

Now, you simply HAVE to push me as scum because of your vote. Your reads changed "naturally" (ie Didi and Mac scumteam is unlikely; leaning Didi > Mac is scum) in the space of three posts, or 20 minutes. That's not natural; that's forced.

[Mac]

So in 20 minutes you went from me and Didi are an unlikely scum team to we were a likely scum team?

My, what a quick change of heart.

[Mac]

That's not naturally changing your opinion as you described earlier.

[Mac]

Xiao you answered your own question in 613. "Mutley was an easy lynch" - scum had no reason to quicklynch him. Neither did town like, I was just a fucking idiot who didn't read properly.

[Mac]

How does one naturally change their opinion? Is it not by reading and thinking about the game?

Yeah, ultimately you're going to have to choose between us, and if you choose right you'll have another conundrum tomorrow. Though I would like to hear from Didi before you choose,

unless you're choosing me.

Naturally changing your opinion would be reading me/Didi's early posts and thinking "unlikely scum team" and then us posting more and you thinking "yeah, possible scum team."

Yours was just a flat-out change of heart to support your sheeping on a townie.

[Mac]

In 20 minutes you managed to analyse both myself and Didi to conclude we were both scum and sheep Xiao's vote on me?

[Mac]

Yep, made up case that came after your vote? Thought as much.

Pretty sure I didn't once clear Didi as town, a nice try though.

[Mac]

When I say madeup, I mean lies. You know?

Why didn't you say it all in one post? Too much to type out when you thought you coulda had the win?

[Mac]

I didn't think it was going to be this much of a problem

Voting and then making a case is scummy

Voting and then making a case in Lylo is

especially

scummy.

[Mac]

With all due respect: we need activity.

I know I'm biased but I seriously think I've put forward some major points against Nic tripping.

[Mac]

That part where you bullshit about your opinion changing "naturally" in 20 minutes is new.

[Mac]

I'd like my vote to remain on Nic because I know he's scum.

won't change the situation a lot, considering as soon as Mac or I get to L-1 the other will hammer.

lolwhat?

Here's a game I've just scanned guys (a scum win; let's look at the final votes);

Newbie 1336

Okay so if MR E is scum I am giving him the victory, not gonna vote him.

THat leaves jason, cybertronix and marangal. I cant really see the team not having jason.

OK now i am pretty certain that Mr E and Sven are scum.

This is nearly the worst post i have seen all game.

I nearly wasn't willing to vote due to cybertronix being that Null posting blob in the corner but now i am happy to.

VOTE: Mr E Roll

Phone posting.

Sven's reaction says it all. Mr. E and Him are the pair.

VOTE: Mr. E Roll

VOTE: MR E

Not the second post and vote on a townie; passing the blame to someone else. Although this was his scumbuddy, he still does this incase his buddy doesn't hammer. Luckily, Sven did and scum won. This scene of posts came over 20 minutes.

[Mac]

Oh right, irrelevant for me cos my votes on you.

[Mac]

I don't know either, Equinox.

[Mac]

There's nothing else I can say that hasnt already been said: Nic is mafia in this one on one we are having.

[Mac]

What we need to know is who you're going to vote for.

Why don't you disclose who you are voting for?

[Mac]

Like... why are you waiting for Xiao's vote before placing your own?

[Mac]

I'm not waiting for his vote

rly?

What we need to know is who you're going to vote for.

Pretty sure that's waiting for Xiao's vote. This is basically maf waiting to see if he can hammer me and win imo.

Confirms my thoughts of a Nic/frog scum team, will have to look at interactions between the two and previous players. I can only hope Xiao agrees & votes Nic before we reach the deadline, assuming he is town.

[Mac]

It looks like you have your mind set Xiao, please try and look at this objectively. I am the town here.

Ask yourself, why keep the conftown alive?

Unless he suspects the townie and not the scum?

Obviously this is WIFOM and thus can't be trusted but Didi thought I was town and was possibly scummy himself: he is dead. Xiao thinks I'm scum and is conftown and you are still alive.

So surely the point of yesterday, if me and Nic were scumbuddies, would be for me to get lynched and Nic to get superb towncred and win scum the game? Nope, no it wasn't, because I put up a fight and got him lynched. Why? Because I'm town.

There are two key points concerning your very self Xiao that the scum have done here:

1) Nic sheeped your vote onto me; scum trying to win the game.
2) frog tried to wait for your vote to see if he could hammer me and win. he tried to cover this up with "waiting for your thoughts" but I've caught him out.

I'm not waiting for his vote

rly?

What we need to know is who you're going to vote for.

Pretty sure that's waiting for Xiao's vote. This is basically maf waiting to see if he can hammer me and win.

frog is the right choice here. If you have any questions, ask. I'm ill at the moment but I plan to look at Nic/frog/otherscumreplacements interactions.

[Mac]

VOTE: frog

[Mac]

Will do. What do you think of frog's post I called out?

[Mac]

I'm going to adress the final part of that post right now, will get others later.

Didi did not ask for Xiao or your vote iirc, he asked "where you stand" as in your opinion. There's a massive difference between "where do you stand" and "where is your vote going." The thing here is you have been caught in a complete lie and are trying to say "other town did it" when in fact they did not.


It's not flawed at all. You were waiting for Xiao's vote before you left; why? Why not just place your vote on me?

I didn't need to ask for who was voting for who because it was irrelevant for me: I knew Nic was scum and all I had to do was convince the town that Nic was scum.

[Mac]

It's not the same thing. That looks like he's asking who people find to be more scummy out of the two of us; again he's asking people's opinions.

What we need to know is who you're going to vote for.

I can keep coming back to this again, and again and again. Because it's not waiting for his opinions, it's waiting for his vote. If you wanted his opinion, you'd say "we to know your thoughts" not his vote.

ACTUALLY. Looking back, it's even

worse

when you tie in Xiao's comment prior to it.

Going to class now, will comment my thoughts when I get there.

What we need to know is who you're going to vote for.

So you weren't waiting for his thoughts because he intended to post them; further proof you are lying and wanted to know if you could win yesterday by voting me.

[Mac]

ISOing kingpin just now.

mutley makes a good point in 202 pointing out that kingpin, despite calling him detrimental to the town and implying he was scum yet wouldn't hammer, probably because he knew mutley was town. he's basically pushing a policy lynch of mutley without actually following through nor putting down a vote. he votes mp5 for going after yourself xiao, which is kinda a typical scum move to tie themselves with a townie in case of being lynched - people would look back at this associative tell and find a way to link you.

onto frog, nothing telling about his intro other than calling Nic null, whilst calling everyone else town/scum other than yourself, you were also null. still find it extremely strange about his "wait for Equinox to clear it up" shenanigans at the end of day one but it means nothing since Mutley and slimer were town. I still think me trying to link him and Mutley as scum shows I didn't know his alignment, at least I was right about him being scum though. 423 tries to paint you (xiao) as scummy and still softpush me as scummy. 496 calls nic null again but "scum by poe" which at lylo is pretty ridiculous, proof he isn't town. note the phrase "always been a null tell" in that post; fencesitting with regards to his scumbuddy. after nic's sheeping vote he starts to call nic scum, knowing that the game is possibly up if they can't get me lynched and so resorts to calling us both the scum team. calls the other two players (Didi, Xiao) town in his ISO reviews. Buddying.

then we get the ridiculous series of posts which I've brought up over and over, obviously pointing to frogscum. he clearly wants to see if he can get the win if xiao votes me. frog can sit here and say he was asking for your thoughts all he wants, but the fact is, xiao, you said you were going to post your thoughts and frog asked for who you were going to vote for. that is scum.

[Mac]

Alright, time to look at the interactions between Mac and Nic.

Mac's intro post doesn't involve much, but Nic is absent from his initial list of reads.

hey good point, we are clearly scum... no wait, i also missed frog, Voodoo Lady & Didi as well as Nic. good effort to try and manipulate that to your advantage.

I find it odd that Mac is using my null tells on Nic as a scumtell considerung that we have post 426 where he says he's scum. And after that, there's nothing. Literally, there is no mention of Nic again until after your unvote.

what? #426 indicates I'm null on Nic and nothing he has said or is saying is sticking out to me.

This is pretty odd given two entire days of interaction. Furthermore, Nic barely mentions Mac at all either; aside from asking one question (which he repeats) on D2, there's little to no interaction between them until after your unvote.
Now, if we assume that their plan was to bus each other D3 so one becomes conftown for D4 (giving them an easy LyLo win) then this low level of interaction makes sense.

Behave. there's probably half the player list I hadn't interacted with unless they interacted with me. Such as MP5. are we scum? nope, he died. Also your plan has the flaw that I'm not stupid enough to believe that after my actions I would be "conftown" by bussing my buddy, but that's irrelevant because I'm not scum. Pretty sure your interactions with NicCage amount to little over nothing until his unvote, too, so don't try and twist this on me.

If their interactions managed to fall under the radar (as they have done) then it makes their bussing strategy incredibly easy to execute, since no one can go back and tie them in a knot with what they said on previous days (since they hadn't said anything). You can see this strategy starting in 481, where Nic starts to become suspicious of Mac for little reason. Mac only starts examining Nic after Nic's vote.

Like I've said, Nic wasn't very involved prior to sheeping Xiao and I had no reason to suspect him. are you suggesting that I should've ignored him when he so blatantly tried to steal the game from town like that by quicklynching me? Nic became suspicious of me for little reason because he's scum and I'm town, and needed a cheap reason to vote me so that entire final sentence is stupid.

There is a massive disparity of action between days 1 and 2 and day 3, which is at the very least suspicious and indicates that the two could easily be scumbuddies. I should add that this isn't limited to Mac and Nic. Xegarus had little contact with FSnake, and Spadille did not address Xegarus at all in his time here. Xegarus and FSnake's (limited) discussion was about such matters as RVS and how to pressure people. In other words, these were simple newbie tips he was giving; no analysis was exchanged between the two of them. The interactions between Mac and Nic and their predecessors points towards them as the scumteam.

yeah, spadille's 3 posts were a real insight into the game and how we were buddies. And wrt to FSnake,

Xegarus was an SE

which means his job was to be useful if required. another classic scumtell there by trying to twist the SE giving advice into scum-scum advice. Also, you might want to consider the fact that Spadille did not mention you at all and neither did FSnake before presenting them as your points against me. Hypocrite.

Ask yourself, why did Mac and Nic not interact at all for two straight days only to begin bussing each other on the third? It all points towards them being scumbuddies. If they weren't, then there is no reason why they should ignore each other for such a long time. It was in preparation for a bussing plan at LyLo so one of the two would appear town enough to win on the following day.

yeah, I've derped around this game and generally been a shit player, so it makes no sense whatsoever for me to bus my scumbuddy as opposed to my scumbuddy bussing me. but whatever. you've been twisting my words for long enough, I can only pray Xiao makes the right call and nails you.

[Mac]

I've said all I have to say I think.

[Mac]

This is dying on it's arse. It's not good for the town to keep quiet

[Mac]

I think you should still care if town wins cos a win's a win isn't it. The game isn't a right off; you can still win it for us.

[Mac]

Because he's scum, I'm town and he was looking for the quickhammer & win.

[Mac]

This is the point I am making. Your example is different from this situation ANYWAY and it doesn't make sense for scumNic to sheep a case on scumMac and not make his own if he wants towncred. He only made his own after he was caught.

[Mac]

No quickhammer indicates nothing. Xiao quickly unvoted and saved us from losing.

Keep digging, scum.

[Mac]

No? It's not like everyone was present and posting prior to Xiao's unvote.

If that isn't scum flailing then I don't know what is.

[Mac]

How in ANY POSSIBLE SCENARIO does me not voting Xiao indicate I'm scum?

[Mac]

@mod - V/LA for the weekend

Answers when I return, if any are needed.

[Mac]

lol.

Except scum did try to take the easy win by sheeping Xiao onto me.

It's not difficult to work out how hard you are trying to twist this into me being scum. Sadly, it's not working.

[Mac]

As you said earlier, Nic could easily have pounced on you and tried to get you lynched. This wouldn't have been hard, if we assume Mac is town (since at the time he suspected you and after that vote he'd have likely gone for you). If Mac votes Xiao then Nic's partner hammers for the win. If Mac is not town then we get into that messsy situation I described earlier, where at least one of you/Nic/Mac is scum and people question why two people pounced on the same guy and there's no quickhammer (or, if mac refuses to vote, he's asked 'why?' since if you're town and voted in Lylo then voting the person who has voted you is the correct play, and he's at a loss to explain himself).

Since scum did not take this seemingly easy win, which would have been taken if Mac were town, it points towards Mac being scum.

I am completely lost by this.

you are trying to accuse me of being scum for voting Nic and not Xiao?? Because townMac would vote Xiao for voting me first and not Nic?

[Mac]

No, I am not doing anything of the sort. I am saying that, if Nic voted Xiao, scumyou would be in a bad position.

this has no relevance to the matter at hand because that didn't happen. you are trying to add confusion by dreaming up scenarios that never happened.

you say that if Nic voted Xiao scumMac would be in a bad position. But Nic voted me, because I am town & he wanted the win. A fact we have gone over many times.

[Mac]

And I wasn't scummy...?

I was the prime target for scum yesterday. And it almost worked for you but thankfully, Xiao saw sense but unvoted.

[Mac]

and unvoted*

[Mac]

My apologies for being shit town there, at least we won, can't believe you flipped a coin though. Thought frog was dead cert scum.