Newbie 1345: Mafia in a Bind (Game Over)

[Didi]

Hello everybody. Excited to play my first game on this particular site. ^^

I have one question so far (since everybody and their cousin uses different rules for this): I understand we need majority for a lynch (as opposed to just who has the most votes at the end of the day). But does the day also immediately end upon majority? The rules kinda seem to imply it, but I'm not 100% sure.


Anyways, I'm voting Mutley until he gets an avatar! Fuck yeah, blackmail.
VOTE: Mutleyddmc

[Didi]

Okay got it, thanks.

[Didi]

Fair enough

UNVOTE:

[Didi]

Well I said beforehand that I would vote you until you got an avatar. Just keeping my word. Would be unfair not to do so.


Who knows, I might vote you again later but as of now there's nothing to go on yet.

[Didi]

During day 1? Well generally, someone getting overly flustered or defensive.


Might as well place a random lynch for now though

VOTE: Xiao Long

[Didi]

Yes, that is indeed what happened.

[Didi]

Usually I just day 1 vote for the guy I like the least on day 1, but that's kind of hard on a site where I know nobody yet.

Though it does mean that for now my vote is sticking on Xiao Long because the way he's formatting his posts is annoying.

[Didi]

I just think it's
not at all handy
to format all your
post like this


And I also ofcourse wanted to see how you would react, which doesn't look particularly scummy to me so far.
So

Unvote

For now I feel TheSlimer is the most suspicious. He hasn't really contributed anything useful yet, and jokingaround posts like 'You're wrong about this videogame so YOU'RE SCUM OBVIOUSLY' are more often than not Mafia trying to blend in, in my experience.
VOTE: TheSlimer



Btw, what's RVS and RQS? Random Vote Stage and Random Question Stage?

[Didi]

I've been playing mafia regularly since 2007/2008, so quite a lot.

And hey, I'm not saying it's a sure thing. Just something that I've seen happen quite often.
Duly noted though that you came to his defense.

[Didi]

Duly noted though that you came to his defense.

There something wrong with me 'coming to someones defence'? I saw your reason for being suspicious as a null tell and so i pointed it out. Would you rather i keep my mouth shut when i see something i dont agree with?

Not in particular, though of course people who know eachother's allegiance to be the same are more likely to stick up for eachother, and right now that's only the mafia.
But I'm not prohibiting you from talking, on the contrary, a silent town is a doomed town, so please, keep talking.

I am sticking a vote on you for now though because you're reacting overly defensive (in my eyes) to just a tiny bit of pressure.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Xegarus



FSnake, whose side are you on?

[Didi]

Maybe you didn't see it because it was at the bottom of my post, but I'll ask it again:

FSnake, whose side are you on?

[Didi]

Duly noted though that you came to his defense.

There something wrong with me 'coming to someones defence'? I saw your reason for being suspicious as a null tell and so i pointed it out. Would you rather i keep my mouth shut when i see something i dont agree with?

Not in particular, though of course people who know eachother's allegiance to be the same are more likely to stick up for eachother, and right now that's only the mafia.
But I'm not prohibiting you from talking, on the contrary, a silent town is a doomed town, so please, keep talking.

I am sticking a vote on you for now though because you're reacting overly defensive (in my eyes) to just a tiny bit of pressure.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Xegarus



FSnake, whose side are you on?

I would feel pressure over me 'coming to somones defence' about a null tell?
I don't quite understand where you are going with this.

Well, I just said I noted that you came to someone's defense. You immediately responded with rather aggressive remarks explaining your actions and stuff along the line of 'should I just shut up', trying to imply I want to shut people up. All of that seems overly defensive to me. I was indeed trying to apply pressure. I am not saying you would feel pressure per se. I am saying you reacted in a manner that seems suspiciously excessive and defensive to me.

Maybe you didn't see it because it was at the bottom of my post, but I'll ask it again:

FSnake, whose side are you on?

Or maybe he doesn't understand what you mean. Cause i don't.
What do you mean 'whose side'?

I just mean to ask if he's town or mafia. Oft times such a simple question and the subsequent answer to it can shed much light on the alignment of one, especially among the less experienced.

[Didi]

Ninja'd? It took you more than an hour to write that post? Explain yourself.


By right now, I mean that later in the game, IF there's a cop, he could stick up for people he has found to be innocent.
And pressure is a tool to see how people react. Usually, townies react cool because they have nothing to hide (or extremely angry if they are up for lynch because they are like 'wtf is this bullshit fuck you I'm not mafia'), and mafia react too defensive, flustered and try everything in their might to explain their actions.
So yes, I was trying to pressure Xegarus. However, his reaction seemed to me like overly defensive for the situation.

[Didi]

Not in particular, though of course people who know eachother's allegiance to be the same are more likely to stick up for eachother, and right now that's only the mafia.

Some scumpairs stick up for each other and prevent each other from being lynched. But knowing that, some scumpairs instead try to distance themselves from each other so that if one slips up and is lynched, the other one won't come under suspicion.

Actually, I have a pair of questions for you, Didi: what do you mean by "right now", and what sides are there to be on?

Actually, in the vast majority of my games, the scum pairs I've encountered, they've tried to keep apart or go against each other, rather than defend them.
However Xega seems like he was defending the RVS rather than me. If he was defending me, I'd be the subject of his rebuttal

Yeah, I suppose that's true, for the first part. I'm not too sure about the second part.

Ninja'd? It took you more than an hour to write that post? Explain yourself.

I left the window open and walked away from the computer for an hour. Whoops. Then when I saw the update notifier I missed the second part of your post and didn't realize you'd answered my initial question. My mistake, sorry.

The cop might stick up for player X who they've found innocent, but player X isn't necessarily going to stick up for the cop.

Okay, np. Sounds legit.


And yes, ofc, since the Cop would know about X but not the other way around. That's obvious.

[Didi]

I think I made it quite clear already that the noting was just a comment to apply pressure. Indeed, true evidence I might keep to myself until it's needed. However, at the moment we know nothing yet so isn't it all townies' job exactly to pry and pressure and try and get as much reactions and thus information as possible?

I don't totally buy your meta me comment yet, since I just get an odd feeling when talking to you, all your posts seem to hide something /instinct. So for now, my vote stays on you. But relax, if you're truly innocent I'm sure I'll come around and even if not, it's just 1 vote. My hunch isn't strong enough yet that I'll try and drag others into this. I'll just see how this all develops, and maybe try and pressure some other people.




What's V/LA?

[Didi]

Sometimes people phrase it weirdly or react flustered when they're actually mafia (because some people are awful liars). You sound fairly genuine though, so I'll believe you for now.


Atm besides Xegarus I also suspect Slimer, I would expect more meaningful input from an experienced player.

[Didi]

Xiao and Muttley jumping up there in the suspicion list with extremely weak/dodgy responses

[Didi]

Nah man, haikus suck, I've never gotten why people like them

[Didi]

Hmm, not sure if Mutley is an townie who's annoyed that people focus on him instead of scum... or a mafia who feels put on the spot.
Xegarus' answers to my stuff satisfied me though, so switching to Mutley who seems more scummy atm.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mutley

[Didi]

Anyone have any thoughts on my case with Mp5 (on both the case and himself)? Or is it just me and xiao who are finding him rather scummy?

His motivation to vote was flimsy, I agree. But I don't know if that was to get a reaction like Xegarus said or just scum trying to start a wagon.


Usually scums are to afraid to start wagons anyway, cuz they don't wanna be traced back to them. They'll support wagons, like on the 2nd or 3rd vote, to get it going, but not be the one to start it. Not always, but a lot of times.

[Didi]

Woah that escalated quickly while I was asleep.

Mutley had better fucking be scum.

[Didi]

Pretty sure that if Mutley is mafia, Xiao is as well.
1) wanting him to be replaced instead of lynched (maybe a new scummate would be less likely to get lynched because less abrasive playstyle)
2) calling out the fake hammer before Mutley could react to it
3) talking to him now, actively trying to make him act less scummy

Sounds like he's trying to do everything in his power to make sure Mutley doesn't get lynched


if Mutley isn't mafia though I don't know what to think

[Didi]

@muttley (damn ninjas xeg and xiao)(and goddamn xiao again and now muttley)
Oh. Yeah. Lol.

My point still kinda stands because he might be trying to do it without removing his vote, so that if you do get lynched now or later he can claim he's not mafia because then he wouldn't have voted you. But you are right that he's not literally doing everything in his power.

@xiao
but replacing someone from the game essentially removes a hell of a lot of information from the game. It goes against the spirit of mafia, imo.

[Didi]

I agree with Xeg, a mafia probably wouldn't be so brazen, this feels like town responses.

UNVOTE:


My gut atm says Kingpin and Slimer are the mafia team.
Both just throwing some stuff around left and right, but not really involved.

[Didi]

I can see where you're coming from, but you're wrong.
I was actually expecting to get called out sooner for changing votes and suspicions so often, but the truth is, I just don't know atm who to suspect. I suck at day 1 (and am not used to dayphases being this long either), and while I tried to apply pressure here and there nobody really responded in a manner that I really distrusted (except maybe Xegarus). And I am easy to convince as long as people give sound arguments, and well, a lot of those are being given.

So, I get it that you suspect me, but you're on the wrong track. I'm just a clueless townie.

[Didi]

Xeg is town, Muttley is town, Voodoo I'm pretty sure is town too.

I agree with you that Voodoo is most likely town, but am I the only one who still thinks Mutley is a bit scummy? I have suspicions about Xeg, too, but he's null for me atm.

Might even throw slimer on to the town pile for now too as PoE.

idk, with how inactive Slimer is, it's hard to get a decent read on him. I know he's v/la, so that's not exactly helping.

Based off interactions and how scummy they are in their own right, I've got FSnake/Spadille (although Spadille has helped this slot since coming in), KingPin, and Xiao as possible partners.

Me and Kinpin as partners makes more sense than me and Spadille, honestly. Kingpin has defended me more than once, iirc. I'd put Spadille with Mutley over Spadille and Kingpin too.

I can see where you're coming from, but you're wrong.
I was actually expecting to get called out sooner for changing votes and suspicions so often, but the truth is, I just don't know atm who to suspect. I suck at day 1 (and am not used to dayphases being this long either), and while I tried to apply pressure here and there nobody really responded in a manner that I really distrusted (except maybe Xegarus). And I am easy to convince as long as people give sound arguments, and well, a lot of those are being given.

So, I get it that you suspect me, but you're on the wrong track. I'm just a clueless townie.

What about Xeg made you distrust him?

Like I said before in my exchange with him, I still think he was reacting overly defensive. He might claim that's his meta, but that's not enough to totally convince me.

[Didi]

I can see where you're coming from, but you're wrong.

Sorry. You convinced me.
UNVOTE:

So, I get it that you suspect me, but you're on the wrong track. I'm just a clueless townie.

Oh, undeniably. Irrefutable.

Guys, he said he is town. He must be.

I was actually expecting to get called out sooner

Hold on ... If you are town, then why would you expect to be called out? We're all working from the same pool of information, if there's nothing to deduce then we'd all be in the same boat and there wouldn't be anything to call you out on.

I don't like haikus
They're terribly annoying
And they suck

Well, not really ... A very cleverly crafted one can win my affection, but not many are.

Yes Muttley, sheep me on didi.

VOTE: Didi

I expected to be called out because if I were one of you guys I would have definitely suspected me with the way I've been posting, changing wagons and doing a shit job of applying pressure.
Thing is, I knew that, yet I didn't change my style. Why? Because I don't worry about my posting style because I've got nothing to hide.

Haikus are easy
But they don't always make sense
Hippopotamus

Didi, you should probably vote who you think is scummiest.

Fair enough, nothing will happen if people don't vote. We're about halfway into the dayphase.
VOTE: Xegarus

[Didi]

I'm not a girl yo

What's OMGUS? OMG U Scum? Like a sort of kneejerk reaction to questioning or votes or something?


I should probably do an ISO of everyone , but I'm kind of busy irl
However, I agree with what MP5 and frog have said about Slimer, specifically about him just giving lots of scumreads on various people and vague suspicions without much backup - especially since just assuming someone is scum and then disecting them from there is something he personally advocated against.

VOTE: theslimer

[Didi]

What an extremely weak defense.
I do hope that if you were town you'd defend yourself better than that.

But I doubt you're town.

[Didi]

[Didi]

While this will look superbad if Mutley flips mafia (and I'm guessing he will after all this, and with his attitude), I want to say we shouldn't rush lynching Mutley, no matter how much we want to. Because a townie can just as well derp (we know at least 3 townies were on the coplynch for instance, and maybe (probably) more), and if he is a townie and we lynch him without any further discussion, we're pretty much lost. It would be exactly what the mafia wants (it's a quick and easy lynch). So at least, we shouldn't hammer quickly and instead talk a lot today, because we need a lot of information. After all, lynching wrongly today means it's 3v2, and I don't like those odds.

3 votes is L-1 right?
Then I won't put him there yet simply because I want everyone to have been in the thread before such a thing happens. And to have said more than just a lynchvote.

[Didi]

Okay, so now it's obvious Mutley is indeed mafia. (and he's trying to reverse psychology implicate me it seems)

So we need to lynch him. BUT. Don't do it quickly, you'll only be playing into the mafia's hands as that will give us less info than if we talk and interrogate and shit first.

[Didi]

Scum wants town to talk as little as possible. I don't care about Mutley, and yes he needs to be lynched, but to do so immediately will be detrimental to our efforts.

The mere fact that you also want this lynch quickly has rocketed you up high on my scummeter Mac. Why do you want this lynch to be done so quickly? Even before some people have had a chance to talk?

[Didi]

I think I was quite clear that I don't care about him talking, I want everyone else to talk.

[Didi]

Let's see

Mutley: scum
Mac: leaning scum
frog: town
MP5: leaning town
Xiao: null
NicCage: null


is how I feel atm

[Didi]

Actually he's at L-1

2 people died
7 left
4 for majority

[Didi]

Wow I was about to go to bed but I just thought of something


What if

What if that whole fake hammer thing that Xegarus (who was replaced by Mac) pulled, was not to see people's and mutley's reaction
But rather to let his scumbuddy reply as if he was a townie who was sad with his death, to let him gain mad towncred
it's just a theory, but think about it, it fits

When the plan was prevented by someone (I think Voodoo Lady?) calling out that the hammer was fake, he then went on to do a back and forth with Mutley which ended with him making Mutley suddenly look town to people (while he was in quite the negative spotlight before)



I so hope I'm right about this
It's always fun when your crazy theories work out

[Didi]

Aside from Mac pushing hard to lynch Mutley, what about him reads scum?
And what about frog reads town?
And why is NicCage null to you? (only saying cause he seems town to me, though his predecessor didn't).

Uhm yeah that's pretty much all I have, I thought he seemed quite townlike at the end of the previous day. Though I was also quite suspicious of his predecessor's behaviour. And I have my crazy theory. :p
Frog just came in after the replacement, immediately posted a bigass post, and in general had/has a townlike posting style imo.
I feel like he hasn't posted much yet, just short posts, not much to read. Therefore I have a hard time reading him. He hasn't said anything particularly scummy yet, but also nothing quite towny.

Wow I was about to go to bed but I just thought of something


What if

What if that whole fake hammer thing that Xegarus (who was replaced by Mac) pulled, was not to see people's and mutley's reaction
But rather to let his scumbuddy reply as if he was a townie who was sad with his death, to let him gain mad towncred
it's just a theory, but think about it, it fits

When the plan was prevented by someone (I think Voodoo Lady?) calling out that the hammer was fake, he then went on to do a back and forth with Mutley which ended with him making Mutley suddenly look town to people (while he was in quite the negative spotlight before)



I so hope I'm right about this
It's always fun when your crazy theories work out

This seems improbable, but quite possible. Just don't put all your eggs in this basket, because there actually is a good chance Mutley is town and just wants to shit up this game.

Yeah I won't. But a man can hope!

Mutley is pretty clearly scum. He read scum to me D1 and has only gotten worse, having quicklynched our cop (then claimed that same PR today) and even admitted he was scum in the post Mac quotes at the top of the page. If it weren't so early in the day I'd claim intent to hammer.

A few questions:

Didi, in your list of reads, you've singled out Mutley as scum (for obvious reasons I gather) but also Mac for the reason that he's been pushing Mutley's lynch so vigorously. Do you think the two could be scumbuddies?

Yes

Didi, quite a hypothesis you have there. Scum don't have daytalk though, so Xeg couldn't have tried to plan Muttley's defence for him - so reactions would have been off the cuff, so to speak. Personally I found Xeg to be very townish, and I don't have any reservations with Mac thus far, so I'm not buying it.

Scum don't have daytalk? Wut? Explain. Cuz what I'm used to is that the mafia just has a quicktopic or PM's eachother or an outside forum or whatever, and they can just talk with eachother there all the time.

[Didi]

Oh okay, I didn't know. Yeah that debunks my theory.


Still think it's suspicious he wants him gone so quickly though and not give us time to discuss (since mafia likely knows mutley is probably gonna go down, so might as well get it over with fast so town can't scumhunt)

[Didi]

If you think Mac is suspicious for pushing the lynch, what do you think about Xiao for putting Mutley at L-1 in such a scenario? That looks pretty scummy to me.

Also quite suspicious. But Xiao has it going for him that he bickered with Mutley all day 1, and I don't think it would be very intelligent of scum to draw so much attention to eachother, especially if you create such a toxic atmosphere with the other in the thread that the rest will be like 'goddammit let's just lynch one of them and get it over with'. Unless it's some WIFOM (am I using this right?) ploy and that's what they WANT us to think. But unlikely imo.

[Didi]

Even if you aren't scum, you're counterproductive. All of your trolling around and antagonistic attitude isn't helping town in the slightest.


Also, damn you Mac for putting him at L-1. You knew he was going to do this. You even look more like scum for already trying to point town 'if mutley is scum, frog is his buddy' in the lynchdirection for the next day.

[Didi]

Fucking. Mutley. What a useless asshole.


Hmm, I want to vote, but I have a 50% chance of being wrong and if I vote wrong the 2 mafia members can immediately latch on and make it majority.
However, I have a strong suspicion that Mac is mafia. Wanting Mutley to go so quickly, and deliberately putting him at L-1 again even though he knew Mutley would vote himself out when that happened.
I feel like second mafia is NicCage, but Xiao and Frog are also not off the hook at all.

[Didi]

I agree with you about 461, that comment is void since Mutley did not flip scum.


Xiao is also a good candidate indeed.

[Didi]

If I vote wrong, mafia will just put more 2 votes there and end the game. It's imperative to vote right on this one. We need to really think this one over good.

Also, why would you even say such a thing, wtf
Not a very townlike thing to say as you should also understand the implications of voting wrong

[Didi]

Or it's the other way around Mac; he thinks you're mafia therefore he isn't afraid of you placing a vote on him, but I suppose it's kinda WIFOM to judge

[Didi]

I thought it was Nic and Mac, but this just made them look like an unlikely team.

Also Nic you're full of shit, where is Mac clearing me as a townread? Pretty sure he still wrongly thinks I'm mafia.

[Didi]

By the minute I'm getting more and more convinced that frog might be mafia. Though this might be overbearing paranoia from my side, but hear me out: he seems like he's going out of his way to agree with me. He has the same initial scumreads as me this phase, and while I stated first that I think he's likely town he states that he has seen me as a townread since he's been in the game.

What I find even more odd about this is that nobody seems to think this strange, and point this out. If I was mafia, and 2 people seemed to be connected like that I'd definitely point it out to try and get one of them lynched. Which makes me think that must mean that the mafia don't want to point this out themselves because they don't want frog, who is mafia, to be lynched. However they do want to establish the connection so that in the event frog gets lynched, the remaining mafiaguy can easily point towards me as appearing scum.
It also could simultaniously work as a ploy to get me to trust frog and vote along with him on a townie.


So, this has led me to believe that the combinations frog/nic and to a lesser extent frog/xiao became a lot more viable.

[Didi]

@frog:
Not really. Though I did not follow you onto the Slimer wagon; I had stated way earlier and more often in the phase that I thought that Slimer was suspicious. I was mistaken, but still. Don't try and twist the situation.


As for Mac; 4 people, everyone but himself (ofc), are saying he's suspicous/probably mafia.
That's why I'm beginning to doubt he might be mafia. Cuz I think it's more likely for 2 mafia and 2 townies to be a on a townie's case than that there's 3 townies and 1 mafia on a mafia's case. Though of course it could be that the remaining mafia just doesn't want to be seen as protecting his buddy and therefore he goes along with the townies, but still.

So, assuming for the argument, Mac is a townie then, that leaves me with you, Nic and Xiao. Now, after what happened earlier with the vote/unvote, I think it's unlikely that Nic and Xiao are a team together. Therefore I am left to conclude you must be mafia together with one of them (and imo Nic seems more scumlike than Xiao).


@Xiao:
what I was trying to say was that he has/had the same reads as me, and thinks I'm town while I thought he was town, so that makes me a bit paranoid and think he might be mafia trying to get me on his side.

[Didi]

It's because I acknowledge that I've acted in a certain way sometimes (especially second half day 1 I was just flipflopping around like a clueless moron) that can/should seem scumlike to the innocent eye. Yet you are the only person to just say you've seen me as a townread ever since you got here, and it makes me mad paranoid!
Then again, it wouldn't be in a scum's best interest to not go after someone who is seen by many as a very possible scum, unless he/she is trying to appear town/appease that person, but that shit doesn't matter in a LyLo situation!

Argh, my head hurts, I'm going insane. D:

[Didi]

I'm leaning towards Nic atm cuz of what I said in 498

Would be nice if he defended himself though cuz we most certainly don't want to rush this lynch

[Didi]

Nic, why do you think I'm mafia?

[Didi]

Uhm, why wouldn't scum quickhammer a townie? Almost no discussion so information for town, less leads for us to go on, etc. And you get a townie away for free. He was going to get lynched regardless probably, but you certainly sped it up.

[Didi]

Your argument doesn't hold. Discussion is still discussion, regardless of Mutley's status. You can always weed out information from it, and a shorter one is never beneficial.

[Didi]

Ugh, I don't know, Mac and Nic both bring up semi-decent arguments, not really sure which one of them is the mafia.
Xiao and Frog are making me a bit paranoid with their 'there is no possible way that none of mac/nic are scum', but I suppose it IS extremely unlikely for scum to take such a gambit instead of just hammering and winning.

I'm leaning towards Nic atm

[Didi]

I've been prodded. Haven't been posting much because I can't fucking choose between Nic and Mac. I should do my own ISOs of them (and the others too I suppose), but ugh, I'm pretty busy irl atm, it's exam period so yeah.

[Didi]

I should probably just put myself at V/LA for now, I have an important exam on friday


I'll try to make a decision after that, but as of now I'm still leaning towards Nic

[Didi]

obligatory post so I don't get prodded (a)

[Didi]

If I vote to lynch Nic, who would follow my lead?

If I vote to lynch Mac, who would follow my lead?

I want to know where Xiao and frog stand atm



Also, Nic and Mac, if you're both gonna keep up the 'I'm town ffs', get your votes off of eachother to help, as I'd hate for my vote to be a L-1 vote and if it's wrong for just 1 mafia to be immediately able to react, if possibly 2 people need to vote with me then at least I could get my vote off of it if I think I made the wrong call after all judging from their vote/reaction. If that makes any sense.

[Didi]

Sorry, I was away for the weekend without internet.

Mac seems sure in his idea that Nic is mafia, which I suppose is understandable considering the situation. On the other hand, Nic immediately took his vote off when I asked him to. A townie trying his best to solve this predicament, or a scared mafia trying his best to pander to a townie to get him on his side? I'm inclined to think the latter. The deadline is tomorrow, I think I've doubted long enough (plus I don't know when or if I will be online tomorrow), so I'm gonna vote now. Can't keep off this hard choice forever.


VOTE: NicCage


Here's hoping I made the right call.

[Didi]

Xiao, you have got the final vote. I think it's Nic and thus by extension, frog. Nic and Mac seem the most logical to me, but if I look at how the votes stand atm and how a mafiateam could end it the only logical conclusion knowing my own position is that frog must be mafia together with Nic. Unless Nic and Mac are playing a very dangerous mafia game together. Or possibly Nic/Mac together with Xiao, but that seems very unlikely imo, considering the gambit it would involve.

[Didi]

Glad we all made the right call on D3, was a nice game, albeit a bit long. Well played everyone.