Newbie 1345: Mafia in a Bind (Game Over)

[Xiao Long]

Hi, everyone
This is my first game ever, so
Let us all have fun!

VOTE: KingPin96

Because avatar.
Counter Strike is the only
Worthwhile source game, bro.

;D

[Xiao Long]

Confirmed scum for telling BOLDFACE LIES

<3

Actually, it depends.
Which one does he mean?
1.6?
Source?
Go?

I mean Source because
1.6 was before Source (engine)
If I recall right.

[Xiao Long]

Then you are 100% wrong and confirmed scum.
Nothing can match 1.6.

My original
comment was CS was
the best Source game, man.
1.6 is not
a Source game, therefore it is
not the best Source game.

huehuehue

[Xiao Long]

Though it does mean that for now my vote is sticking on Xiao Long because the way he's formatting his posts is annoying.

Sorry about that.
But format does not equal
scum factor there bro.

(is there soemthing
wrong with my
formatting?)

Xiao Long is looking scummiest to me.


UNVOTE:
VOTE: Xiao Long

Any reason or
are you just trying to see
how I will react?

UNVOTE

(I guess we're out of rvs now?)

[Xiao Long]

I feel a storm brewing between Fsnake, Xega, and Xaio.

I am not so sure.
I think they're just trying to
get a reaction.

(Is MP5 still with us?)

[Xiao Long]

Back to Xiao. His very first post, and he comes in sounding - excited. Very excited. Could just be someone in their first mafia game? Well, I would've thought so previously, but for the fact that the IC in my last newbie game (1315) pointed it out as a scum tell, and not even on a newbie but an SE - to my surprise, it turned out to be accurate.

Well, it's my first game.
But this doesn't seem like a
good enough reason.
As you may well know,
people are different and
act differently.

Since then, Xiao posts a little fluff, asks if it was for a reaction, and then posts that he thinks the motivation for the topic of discussion is reaction testing. Well, you don't get much of a reaction when they ask "Is this to get a reaction?" I'm still happy keeping my vote here.

I asked because there
was nothing indicating
I'm scum in my posts.

[Xiao Long]

annoyed me a little bit with his post-formats.

I believe this is
policy lynching, correct?
Not a good reason.

Now you made me think about his "is this a reaction test" questions and i'm happy with my vote staying on him until i get better reads.

Do you think you could
come up with a real reason
for voting for me?

@xiao - Perhaps you did't understand Didis post about your post-format because it looks on your device like your own post. Your formatting is bad because your sentences break in a new column after 3-5words, really annoying to read. What device are you using to post?

My formatting is
actually on the mark.
Think about it some.

[Xiao Long]

That sounds like a very very weak response. I'm going to have to add some more pressure to you, buddy.
VOTE: Xiao

A weak response to a baseless accusation.

Are you on psp or something?
But really, the way you structure your sentences disrupt what you're saying through false punctuation.
At first it seemed like you were doing Haiku, and I didn't bother to check,

But your first sentence,
and the rest then following
are not 5 7 5.

Um, what? Maybe you should recount your syllables.

Xiao and Muttley jumping up there in the suspicion list with extremely weak/dodgy responses

What is dodgy about my response? If you feel like I'm scum, then vote for me, however this wagon MP5 has started against me is retarded and baseless. And with how quickly FSnake and Slimer have jumped on it, I'm finding it hard to not see them as scum.

VOTE: MP5

[Xiao Long]

If you feel like I'm scum, then vote for me, however this wagon MP5 has started against me is retarded and baseless. And with how quickly FSnake and Slimer have jumped on it, I'm finding it hard to not see them as scum.

VOTE: MP5

Hold up a sec. MP5 is scum because he's started a wagon against you, and FSnake and Slimer are scum because they've jumped on it...? They pretty obviously can't all be scum.

It's still too early for me to narrow it down, so I have a top three atm. Does that not make sense?

[Xiao Long]

Because people don't appreciate good poetry. ;.;

[Xiao Long]

Nah man, haikus suck, I've never gotten why people like them

OBVIOUS SCUM, LYNCH NOW!

No, no, no, no!! Just no.
If you are trying to judge on your own scumminess, you're

doing it wrong.

Then how about actually explaining what was scummy in my posts AT THE TIME YOU VOTED. The only thing you explained that was scummy (at the time you voted) was that I was excited and then bullshit'd it by saying someone entirely different, in an entirely different game was also excited and ended up being scum.
Why is this dumb logic? Here's an example:
Let's assume you're from England.
I know someone from England who is really tall and likes black metal music.
You must also be really tall and like black metal music.
Does this make sense now?

[Xiao Long]

His reaction trying to assert there is no reason is a sucky defence. He is still the most probable scum in my eyes at the moment.

Forgive me for not writing an essay, I assumed you were reaction hunting by using crappy logic. Now I just think you're scum trying to start a wagon on the newest player.

[Xiao Long]

Asking the person that finds you scummy, why they think you are scummy, is not that great an idea. It can make it look as if you are only trying to argue against the points made and not the actual motivation around them. Also, since they think you are scum, why would they answer you?

I disagree. I think it's a good idea. If someone doesn't tell you why they vote for you/think you're scummy, then you can't really defend yourself. Seeing as the whole point of this game is trying to sway people to vote for who you think is scum, then you need to have solid reasons for voting for said person and you need to voice them - both so others can agree with you, and so the people you're accusing can defend themselves.

I don't see why they wouldn't answer me, unless they just want the game to be really inactive.

[Xiao Long]

When you start to defend your self, you are not scum hunting. If they give you reasons as to why they have voted you as such, ten by all means tear them a new one. But if they haven't, fuck them. Scum's only goal is to stay alive. So they try to appeal to everone more. Town though, towns only goal is to lynch scum. A town getting lynched is not a bad thing. It tells us its alignment, those that pushed the lynch etc. This means that town is less afraid to be lynched than scum. And thus means that trying to defend your self against points rather than scum hunting can look really scummy.

I disagree to an extent. One can defend themselves and scum hunt at the same time (for instance, in my case of defending myself, I also made a case of why MP5 is appearing really scummy). And everyone defends themselves anyways, that's why there's claiming. I'd say people sheeping to lynch someone who hasn't had a chance to address the issues against them is more scummy than someone simply defending themselves. Granted, this is my first game and my opinion on this issue is bound to change as I play more games.

Another thing, while I agree it's not necessarily a bad thing if town gets lynched, it is a bad idea if they're lynched on shoddy logic. This shows weakness and sheepishness in the town which can lead to too many mislynches and cost us the game. That being said, if town can manage to recognise said logic after a mislynch, then yes, it can be very useful for town.

And aboutthe ignoreing thing, its a play style. I have seen it enough to say that it isn't alignment based. Heck, its usually one of the rare cases where its "that is so anti town, scum wouldnt do it". But thats only usually. Dont take it as a reason not to attack someone for it. Just dont get too angry.

Wait, is this addressed at me?


Also, Xegarus, I'm curious as to what yours (and everyone else's) reads are on everyone so far.

[Xiao Long]

Oh, alright, understood. It should be noted that I'm not angry, though, lol. I'm just really argumentative.

[Xiao Long]

Lol shit gets bad if someone has an opinion? Wow. Damn. Plus I am the one to decide for the sole reason because I said so. Pointless questions are pointless.

In a game like this, I don't really think any questions are pointless. Stupid? Yes. Pointless? No. Regardless, you're jumping way up on my scum meter and I'm tempted to put you at L-1.

[Xiao Long]

Mutley, all you're doing is stalling and completely ignoring the issues at hand. You've got three votes on you already and instead of doing ANYTHING about it - be it scumhunt or defending yourself - you're just laughing it off and refusing to address it. You've pretty much only posted fluff and bullshit.

Unvote
Vote: Mutley

You're now at L-1, I'd suggest actually playing the game.

[Xiao Long]

That's not a hammer, Xeg was already voting for Mutley. That being said DON'T HAMMER HIM YET. Let him state his case. Honestly, if he continues to just act a prick, I say we ask the mod to replace him.

[Xiao Long]

From what I can tell, Mutely is causing a rucus and is being a total newbis. In a real game, he would be lynched for his trouble. He has his choice to replace out if he so desires, but if he needs to be ynched for disruption, then we lynch him. Point blank.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind lynching him. But to be perfectly honest, I'd rather have him replaced with someone who will actually play the game if he continues not to play it.
Also, nice haiku. =]


Xeg: You actually did push his lynch because you thought you were hammering him.

Mutley: Just because you think a question isn't worthwhile and that anyone could come up with the answer for it, doesn't mean you should just NOT answer the question. All this does is make you look like a scummy piece of shit. It's quite evident that you don't mind being the first one gone as you've done nothing pro town since the game has started. So far you have 8 people against you which does nothing but make it harder for us townies to find who is scum.

I put something out there straight away. Knowing it would be picked up on, but not said out loud. Which would mean the mafia wasted a kill if they picked up on it

What are you talking about? What did you put out there? What would be picked up? The only thing I've picked up from your posts is that you're content with trolling until we lynch you. And what do you mean mafia wastes a kill? If you're not scum, you're practically a free kill for mafia because everyone is against you (with the exception of MP5 and Snake as they haven't really posted much about this).

Quote tags fixed. (Equinox)

[Xiao Long]

Whoops, fucked up the quote tags, sorry.

[Xiao Long]

The tag fucking up is making it hard to read but I will try. What has anyone done that is really pro town? it is day one surely everyone really comes across pro town thats the point of the game? We don't learn anything until day 2 anyway. Its all waffle and shit on day 1. By waste a kille I mean the use a kill on a vanilla thinking it was a power role. Rather than having a shot at one of the power roles.

Most players seem to be doing some pretty pro-town things so far with the exception, in my opinion, of MP5 and Snake. However, there's a difference between doing things that are not pro-town and doing things that are very anti-town. You've been quite anti-town the whole time. Whether you're a power role or not, it's not a waste for mafia to kill you. If they kill you, it's one less town we have which gets us closer to losing.

I disagree we don't learn anything on day 1. While yes, we learn more on day 2, it's better we have a decent foundation to work with going into day 2. You causing us to be so close to hammering so early in day 1 takes away any town advantage going into day 2.

You thought you had ended it, you didn't realise your vote was already on me. You thought you had taken a power role out first day mr mafia.

Xeg: You actually did push his lynch because you thought you were hammering him.

I guess you don't understand either. I was wondering why you ruined my plan by telling people that my 'hammer' didnt count.

It was an INTENTIONAL fake hammer.
A reaction test. Do you honestly think i would not notice? And could you not tell the total change in personality?
And i must say, i don't like Mutley's reaction to it at all. His confidence that he has contributed by making a vague point and then the arrogance to go and say that he will likely be NK'd.
Mut, i do think you are scum.
I want a claim from you.

I had assumed afterwards that you must have been fake hammering, but I'm not sure Mutley would be dumb enough to fall for it seeing as how both of your votes were on the same page. Also, Equi posting the votes immediately after my post didn't help your plan, lol.

[Xiao Long]

why do you want a claim from me?

Because you're at L-1 and someone who is not voting for you has already said they don't mind hammering you.

[Xiao Long]

I'm sure when the day ends, 1 mafia will be voting me and 1 won't.

Except for the fact that everyone who is active here wants you lynched - therefore it doesn't help us find scum at all.

Pretty sure that if Mutley is mafia, Xiao is as well.
1) wanting him to be replaced instead of lynched (maybe a new scummate would be less likely to get lynched because less abrasive playstyle)
2) calling out the fake hammer before Mutley could react to it
3) talking to him now, actively trying to make him act less scummy

Sounds like he's trying to do everything in his power to make sure Mutley doesn't get lynched


if Mutley isn't mafia though I don't know what to think

I can see why it sounds scummy that I'm saying to have him replaced. My reasoning is actually different though. The whole fun of this game is using powers of deduction to find scum. If someone is doing nothing but being a distraction, I'd rather have them replaced with someone who will actually play the game. Especially this early in the day. That said, I'm not going to be unvoting him, and as it seems he doesn't give a shit about claiming, perhaps it's time for him to be hammered.

(As far as calling out the fake hammer, I legitimately was not aware of Xeg's plan, sorry.)

But I'm not going to claim a role if I am not one, that's just stupid.

Then you'll be lynched.

[Xiao Long]

Pretty sure that if Mutley is mafia, Xiao is as well.
1) wanting him to be replaced instead of lynched (maybe a new scummate would be less likely to get lynched because less abrasive playstyle)
2) calling out the fake hammer before Mutley could react to it
3) talking to him now, actively trying to make him act less scummy

Sounds like he's trying to do everything in his power to make sure Mutley doesn't get lynched


if Mutley isn't mafia though I don't know what to think

Im not defending xiao here but point out a little flaw in your logic. Trying to do everything in his power would mean removing his vote just saying.

Not necessarily, it's sometimes a good tactic for scum to lynch fellow scum. However, I'm not so sure you're scum, I just think you're ruining the game.

[Xiao Long]

@xiao
but replacing someone from the game essentially removes a hell of a lot of information from the game. It goes against the spirit of mafia, imo.

To some extent, but I don't really see how he's given us any usable information so far. He's now stated he's VT, but before he was just really antagonistic without much to go on.

[Xiao Long]

@xiao - lets suppose my initial push on you was a reaction test. Would you classify the answer "is this a reaction test" as getting a pass mark or a fail?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking whether I passed your reaction test of me? Not for me to decide. The only reason I asked if it was a reaction test was because you had nothing to vote me on in the first place, so logically this was the only assumption I could make. I assumed you wanted to basque in the pleasure of having me beg you to unvote me, which I wasn't going to do. I was going to go the "you have nothing on me, and if you do have something on me, perhaps you should state it" route.

Also, my vote on you was not an OMGUS. I stated legitimate reasons for voting you, and if the rest of town wishes to let sleeping Mutley's lie, my vote will go back to you for the same reasons I stated in the first place.
That said, your inactivity has made it difficult to truly pin the scum tail on you.

And yeah, sorry for ruining the fake hammer. Lapse of judgment on my part.

[Xiao Long]

Rereading that last post of mine has me thinking I sound like a cunt, nothing personal whatsoever MP5. =]

[Xiao Long]

I agree with Xeg, a mafia probably wouldn't be so brazen, this feels like town responses.

UNVOTE:

Or perhaps he would be because he knows no one would ever vote for him if he acted like that.

[Xiao Long]

I agree, it's ballsy and improbable. But it's still possible.

[Xiao Long]

VOTE: Xiao Long

Xiao Long withraws his RVS after MP5 calls him out for being scummy and votes him. This is a weak scum tell. Scumm will always want to look innocent, to the point of cleaning their hands off anything that they think would make them look scummy. In this case, Xiao Long having a vote 'out of RVS'. #47 (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4783012)

Withdrawing my RVS once we're out of RVS is a scum tell? lol, perhaps you didn't notice how blatant my RVS was in the first place. I voted for Kingpin because of his avatar. That's obviously a bullshit vote.

Xiao Long also tells us a tale of a boy who, instead of actually scumhunting, bashes his attackers in hopes of defending himself nonstop. Please take time to read his posts in isolation.

Yeah, you're right, me questioning MP5 and giving reasons why I think he's scum isn't scumhunting. Durrr

Xiao and Muttley jumping up there in the suspicion list with extremely weak/dodgy responses

What is dodgy about my response? If you feel like I'm scum, then vote for me, however this wagon MP5 has started against me is retarded and baseless. And with how quickly FSnake and Slimer have jumped on it, I'm finding it hard to not see them as scum.

VOTE: MP5

If you think FSnake(me) and Slimer are the ones who are scummy, then why vote MP5 who just casted the first vote?

You're not very good at reading, are you? Take a look at post 90.

#98

>Initially thinks MP5 is just reation hunting by using crappy logic.
>Votes him anyway

This isn't 4chan, quit trying to green text.
And I didn't vote him for that reason. You clearly missed where I explained I thought he was scum trying to start a wagon on the newest player.

#55
Also:

>Knows what a pressure vote is and how it helps.
>Still thinks FSnake is scummy for voting for pressure.

Yes, I thought Snake was scummy. And I still do to some extent. Well, null-scum. To be fair, he hasn't given me much to work with. You however, have given me a lot with just this post.

This story stops once he was called out. An interesting reaction.

Explain this for me, please.

#113 and #120
These posts tells us a story of how our boy, Xiao Long, evolves. Even though he tells us that quickly jumping on wagons are scummy, he does so. With what reason? The same reason he keeps defending himself of, not scumhunting.

Did you completely ignore the entire Mutley ordeal? The dude was clearly being anti-town and ruining the game by being a cunt in general. Are you implying this is what I'm doing? I voted Mutley because I thought him being at L-1 would make him stop ruining the game. It's not that hard to comprehend.

#125
125 is a story of Pontius Pilate washing his hands for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at here.


Also, your condescension is not appreciated. Quit calling me a boy and I'll quit insulting your reading comprehension ability.

[Xiao Long]

I think I've only called you a cunt. And myself. Either way, not a good enough reason to vote for someone. Try again.

[Xiao Long]

Also, what about Kingpin makes you think he's mafia?

[Xiao Long]

For me kingpin is likely mafia due to his not wanting to hammer me. He didnt want to get looked at as the final blow so was waiting for someone else. He lurked a bit and didnt get involved in the exchanges. If he is mafia he knew all I was doing was being 'anti town' therefore was happy to reinforce his opinion in it. So that the town would look at it as in a oh he was right etc He's not mafia!

Makes sense, I agree his lurkiness and lack of involvement in the action is scummy. I haven't looked at his past games though, I so I don't know if that's just his playstyle.

You I feel are mafia because again you wanted me gone, but also tries to get me to defend myself.

Oh, do quit reading my words incorrectly. I didn't want you to "defend" yourself, I wanted you to actually play the game instead of douching around like you were. Notice how much more useful the discussion here has gotten since you quit derailing the game?

Knowing that I would flip town it would make you look town too even though you voted me.

I don't know anything about what you would flip. I knew it was possible you would flip town, but I didn't KNOW. Hell, I'm still not so sure you would flip town.

Also you posts that have been brought up previously about not thinking you look scummy. You are obviously worried about trying not to look scummy and not just playing the game knowing you don't need to lie because you are town and have nothing to hide.

Worried about not looking scummy =/= rebutting shitty logic. Obviously some people still think I look scummy, so if my objective was to make myself not look scummy, I'm not doing a very good job of it. I have no problem with people voting me if they have legitimate reasons. And where have I lied? I've been pretty open and blunt the whole time.

As you feel the need to call someone a cunt I feel I'd rather vote you over king pin.

Again, this is not a good enough reason to vote for someone. Try again.

Also I feel you've changed slightly since votes have come off me because of my arrogance and stubbornness. You seem to be playing yourself towards that role too. So that you can use that defence of 'well you saw mutley as town because of that post style why not me?'

You're full of shit here. I'm not playing anything like you. I didn't spend four pages ignoring questions directed at me until I got to L-1.
My vote is still on you, btw. You haven't given me much reason to take it off.

[Xiao Long]

Well I'm not voting for you just cos of what you've called me

your horrible nature was the deciding factor in the two.

lolwut?

You say people don't read maybe you should too! I never said you've actually lied about anything.

You're right, you implied it.

I meant that you are over trying to not be scummy

How? As I said, if I was trying not to act scummy, then I'm not doing a very good job of it because people clearly think I am scum.

where us the townies play the game not having to think about the posts because they aren't lying or hiding anything.

The whole game is about thinking. Thinking what could draw scum out. Thinking what could make townies reveal themselves. Your problem is you don't seem to think whatsoever.

I don't mind coming across scummy because I know I'm not.

However, I don't know you're not scummy. Which is why my vote is still on you.

As it was said before commenting in your own scumminess is doing it wrong.

Different =/= wrong. I have no intention of playing the way people expect me to play. If this results in me being lynched, so be it.

[Xiao Long]

How do you not understand that I'm not voting for you just because you called me a cunt. I'm voting you over the other scummy person in my mind. Not like I've gone he's not scummy at all but he's a cunt so I'm voting him. Well of course I'm implying you are lying cos I've voted you and said you are scum. Which means I've implied it. But not picked out one clear lie.

You blatantly stated the only reason you voted for me over Kingpin was because I called you a cunt. This means you voted for me because I called you a cunt. While it may be true that me and Kingpin are equally scummy in your eyes, the point still stands that you only voted me over him because I called you a cunt. If you wanted me to think your vote was legit, you should probably have left that part out of it.

You have no intention of playing the way people expect you too. However because I play by being a bit of a troll etc you thought I was scum? Pot kettle and black springs to mind.

Here's the thing, I may not be playing the way people expect me to, but I'm STILL PLAYING. YOU, on the other hand, were ignoring everything and NOT PLAYING AT ALL. Trolling isn't playing, it's trolling, and that's exactly what you were doing. So go fuck your pot/kettle analogy.

[Xiao Long]

Oh, and I forgot to address this:

Well of course I'm implying you are lying cos I've voted you and said you are scum. Which means I've implied it. But not picked out one clear lie.

Well, if you're implying I'm lying, please point me in the direction of what you believe are lies. Otherwise I assume you're just talking out of your ass again.

[Xiao Long]

Lol getting wound up. Not my fault you don't call this as playing pretty sure I was playing as I was posting and voted. thats surely playing? just not your way?
So my vote isn't legit even though I've given other reasons so had to pick something as a tie breaker what do you expect me to do? Plus I'm sure it is legit as it will count in the vote count therefore legit!

No, I don't call trolling for four pages until you get to L-1 as playing. You're actually playing now, and for that, I thank you.
I clearly meant legit as in sound, it counts yes, but it's hardly sound.

Oh and you are lying by not saying you are scum. Again you should read I never said you lied in one particular statement. But because you are scum you are therefore lying to the town.

Except I'm not scum, so me saying I'm scum would make me a liar.

I will be referring to you as PKB from now on.

I honestly don't know what this means.

Please, do not derail my argument. I voted you for being agressively defensive and distancing from the real issue with your ad hominems. Your reply explained what needs to be explained for every player here that is town.

How am I derailing your argument? By stating what you're wrong about? I mean, shit, yeah, I'd be annoyed if someone showed me why my argument against them was incorrect. And yes, I am very aggressive. Tis my playstyle. But I know you can't exactly meta me to verify it. But I don't think ad hominems make a difference here. My reply explains to every player that is town? Well, I'm town, so...

And I didn't vote him for that reason. You clearly missed where I explained I thought he was scum trying to start a wagon on the newest player.

And this changes everything, doesn't it? You assume you are the newest player? Boy, you literally claimed that you initially thinks he is 'reation hunting by using crappy logic'.

Yes, I assumed I was the newest player. If I'm wrong, then sorry. Doesn't change that this is my first game of Mafia ever. Looking back, it appears it was also FSnakes first game, so I guess I am wrong about that.
And yes, I did INITIALLY claim that I thought he was just reaction hunting by using crappy logic. I then said my thinking CHANGED to him trying to start a wagon against (one of) the newest players. My thoughts change. Boy, that's a shocker.

Explain this for me, please.

Scums trying to fit in town, doing what town wants him to do and quickly changes. Strong scum tell.

Eh? What was I doing trying to fit in with town? Actually quite seriously asking this cause I don't know how you mean.

Did you completely ignore the entire Mutley ordeal? The dude was clearly being anti-town and ruining the game by being a cunt in general. Are you implying this is what I'm doing? I voted Mutley because I thought him being at L-1 would make him stop ruining the game. It's not that hard to comprehend.

I did not. But you didn't, did you? Clearly after building up some tension with your exchange with MP5, you needed someone to 'scumhunt' and use as a scapegoat. Mutley would be perfect for you.

You're really reaching here. I'm still quite suspicious of MP5, I believe I even made a post stating that. Funny how someone thought Mutley was my scum partner and now you think he's my scapegoat. Shows me how clueless you are.

I'm honestly not sure what you're getting at here.

I understand your pain.

Scums trying to wash hands just before someone's execution to prevent fingers pointed

Nope, but it makes sense that you would read it this way. You're wrong, though.

You're not very good at reading, are you? Take a look at post 90.

Neither you are at rebuttals. What does post 90 says? Post 90 says you don't really want to look like as if you have 'strong scum reads' so when it comes a time that someone calls you out on it, you'd play the 'I'm not even sure' card.

Post 90 was on page four. Do you honestly expect me to have set in stone ideas of who is and isn't scum by page four? Honestly.

I originally was suspicious of Fsnake, and you've made me even more suspicious of your character (is it okay if I call it that?). You come into the game and immediately try to push votes on who you think will be the most disagreeable. Perhaps you're actually scum and you know I'm town and are therefore trying to get town to lynch who you think will be easiest to lynch.

[Xiao Long]

Precisely what I'm banking on. ;]

[Xiao Long]

Xeg is town, Muttley is town, Voodoo I'm pretty sure is town too.

I agree with you that Voodoo is most likely town, but am I the only one who still thinks Mutley is a bit scummy? I have suspicions about Xeg, too, but he's null for me atm.

Might even throw slimer on to the town pile for now too as PoE.

idk, with how inactive Slimer is, it's hard to get a decent read on him. I know he's v/la, so that's not exactly helping.

Based off interactions and how scummy they are in their own right, I've got FSnake/Spadille (although Spadille has helped this slot since coming in), KingPin, and Xiao as possible partners.

Me and Kinpin as partners makes more sense than me and Spadille, honestly. Kingpin has defended me more than once, iirc. I'd put Spadille with Mutley over Spadille and Kingpin too.

I can see where you're coming from, but you're wrong.
I was actually expecting to get called out sooner for changing votes and suspicions so often, but the truth is, I just don't know atm who to suspect. I suck at day 1 (and am not used to dayphases being this long either), and while I tried to apply pressure here and there nobody really responded in a manner that I really distrusted (except maybe Xegarus). And I am easy to convince as long as people give sound arguments, and well, a lot of those are being given.

So, I get it that you suspect me, but you're on the wrong track. I'm just a clueless townie.

What about Xeg made you distrust him?

[Xiao Long]

... :0? I don't know what you're getting at here. How is inviting everyone to sit back and watch you and Mutley devour each other part of your plan?

My thought process was that at least one of the players not involved in the me-mutley-sadille three-way was scum.

This is going slow now. I'm tempted to join MP5 on the didi lynch. As the more I read the post the more it makes sense. I have this feeling though I can't shake and there's nothing to it really but that xiao and mp5 are the mafia.

You continue to be quite sheepish, it seems. You think I'm scum, we've established this. You also think MP5 is scum, but wait, you actually agree with MP5 and think Didi is scum. Would you mind delivering some reads, because all I see is you leaving yourself open to hop on whatever wagon takes off first.

Did you... Did you mean for that to be a haiku..?

Yeah, all my earlier posts were haiku except for one where I fucked up and went 5-8-5. ;.;
Also, thanks for the post, Slimer. You've gained more town points in my book with that.



As far as everyone else, can we get some activity or something?

[Xiao Long]

So voodoo you start by saying that I am more than likely not scum.

You misread. She didn't say more likely not scum, she said more likely than not scum. Means she thinks you're scum.

I don't like haikus
They're terribly annoying
And they suck

obvscum, lynch nao.


Seriously though, I'm not sure about the Didi wagon. He seems pretty confident in his playstyle - too much so to be considered scum just yet, but it remains to be seen.
The only one I'm fairly certain is scum is Mutley. And the only one I'm fairly certain is town is Voodoo.
All you other fuckers keep changing places in my graph =P

Quote tag fixed. (Equinox)

[Xiao Long]

I'm bad at quote tags
Equi, fix it for me, please.
Thank you very much.

[Xiao Long]

I understand Muttley's misread though, it took me two reads to work out exactly what Voodoo was originally saying, and two reads to get the wording of Muttley's reply. Thing is, "more likely than not" and "more than likely not" are so easy to confuse, look so similar to the eye on first glance but complete opposites.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not lambasting him for his misread, just trying to clear it up.

but leaves himself an out when he declares "if Mutley isn't mafia though I don't know what to think".

That sentence makes sense to me, though. Because Mutley was so scummy that if he ended up flipping town, it would completely throw him off. Honestly, it would throw me off, too. I'd have to review my reads quite a bit. Though, this may just be me rationalising.

... :0? I don't know what you're getting at here. How is inviting everyone to sit back and watch you and Mutley devour each other part of your plan?

My thought process was that at least one of the players not involved in the me-mutley-sadille three-way was scum

I want to question your thinking here. You did something because it meant you could narrow down 1 in 6 to scum? You should surely be scum hunting by doing things that would increase the probability over just doing a random generator. Getting 1 in 6 is worse than just random generating one of the 9 to lynch.

How is 1 in 6 worse than 1 in 9? I have a higher percentage of finding scum in a smaller pool.
9 players, 2 of which are scum.
I know I'm not scum, and I'm fairly confident voodoo isn't scum so that leaves 7.
2 of 7 players are scum.
Two of the seven are arguing with me, and of those two, I think one is scum.
The other scum is with the rest of the group who are not in the middle of the argument which is now down to 5 people. I have a 20% chance of randomly guessing scum correctly.

It's easier to look really in-depth into five people than it is to look really in-depth into seven, would you not agree?

[Xiao Long]

What I'm saying is you are saying there is only 1 of those 6 is scum. So if we were to pick on of those we would get a 16.6 percent chance of hitting mafia. However if we just took the whole group of 9 of us and picked one we would have a 22.2 percent chance.

However if you say it's 1 in 5 (sorry I didn't read your post completely. That's still less chance than just asking a random generator and picking one of all of us. If you are going to use a tactic to scum hunt you need to make sure your tactic is increasing the chances of just randomising it. You have not.

Except I'm not doing it 1 and 9. I'm also not strictly doing it randomly, as I'm taking the five I'm left with and looking in-depth into their posts. Furthermore, I wouldn't ask a random number generator to look for nine because I wouldn't include myself in the search. I already know what my role is, I'm looking for the roles of others. So that's 8. Then I take away voodoo because she seeems pretty town and that leaves seven. That seven is split into two groups. One group of two (you and spadille) and one group of five. This isn't just a random generator, it's deduction combined with probability which causes more variables. Ugh, nevermind, I can't be arsed explaining this.

[Xiao Long]

Yes but that's you taking into account that your reads are right or whatever. Right now they are wrong cos you think I am scum.

Because I think you are lying.

Which because you are taking voodoo out are doing it wrong especially for "she seems pretty town" because there's no reason right now to take anyone out of the equation completely. Especially for pretty town you aren't even saying that you are 100% so why would you take her out?

I'm not 100% sure about anyone, but she seems the least likely to be scum with the posts she's made.

Also just cos you know your role doesn't mean we should take you out of any thing. Obviously you will but we shouldn't listen to just you.

Who's plan are we talking about? Yours or mine? Oh right, we're talking about mine, so obviously I'm going to take me out of it. I never said you should take me out of your plan. <<

[Xiao Long]

So you aren't 100% sure hence why she shouldn't be taken out.

You don't know what process of elimination is, do you? No, I don't know 100%, but at this point, she's the least scummy person here, so I have no reason to include her atm. This could change, yes, but at the moment this is where I'm at in my process.

How do you not see that. If you are trying to prove something say like a scientist does. If you don't take into account every possibility and to 8 other people there's a possibility you are mafia.

You're a fucking idiot. I'm taking into account every possibility, but I'm going with what appears as if it will work out the best for the time being. What the fuck have you done all game besides hop onto every wagon that isn't directed at you? Nothing.

What am I lying about?

You're lying about not being scum.

[Xiao Long]

Oh, right, you almost hop onto every wagon that isn't directed at you. My b. You're still a scummy piece of shit to me, though. And you do absolutely zero scum hunting (unless you count sheeping to others posts as scum hunting). Again, what have you done besides try to quickly hop onto my wagon once the pressure was off you?

[Xiao Long]

Just as much scum hunting as you. What's a b? Why is it your b? There's not really and band wagon on you. I have you and king pin and most scummy so my vote lies on one of you. Mp5 made good points on didi so he's up there but my above you two yet. I still don't mind getting lynched. In fact I'd really like to get lynched just to prove how wrong you really are.

Are you a native English speaker? I'm actually not trying to be rude when I tell you that your grasp of English is lacking and is making it a chore to decipher your posts.
I assume you're joking when you say "what's a b?" But in case you aren't, "my b"="my bad".
There's not a band wagon anymore, no.
At this point, I'd like for you to get lynched whether I'm wrong or not. /honesty

I'm guessing I know why you feel voodoo is town. That's because she has the same opinion of you on me and hasn't changed it? If I'm correct I actually would move you a lot down on scumminess. As I don't feel a mafia would be clearing a town person like that.

Actually, that's not it at all. I've been thinking voodoo was probably town since before that. What really solidified it was when she told us to stop bickering because scum could just lie and wait. If she were scum, I don't think she would have said that.

[Xiao Long]

No I just didnt see any reason to shorten the word bad. You don't say F you. You say Fuck. So why shorten a 3 letter word.

So, yeah, you've only been speaking English for a day then. No wonder I can barely understand what the fuck you type.

Shame that you didn't lie about voodoo then and agree I might have taken my vote off you .

Quite frankly, I don't give a shit whether you vote for me or not.

Also again you are very tunnel visioned on me at the moment. You questioned me for voting you for calling me a cunt (amongst other reasons) yet you are happy for slimers vote I am guessing?

I'm not tunnel visioned. Just because I'm most vocal about you doesn't mean I'm not looking into others. And Slimer's vote made no sense to me, but apparently he was reaction testing. Not a very good reaction test, though, imo.

Certainly aren't losing your PKB name.

I still don't know what this means.

Surely only a mafia would be evil enough to neuter someone. Especially one who has already been neutered

Surely only mafia would be evil enough to post meaningless garbage that doesn't advance the game.

Glad MP5 posted about that spoiler wall. I agree with most of it as I said before most of it wad fluff etc and MP5 has done a good job of proving it. However that doesn't mean I think Slimer is scum, just that it was fluff. However I never understood how Xiao put it as a gaining town points post‼

Because not all of it was fluff, and he called spadille on his bullshit which I wouldn't expect scum to do.

I've actually become less suspicious of xiao recently I just don't like him. So for that reason

Good, I don't like you either. You're an idiot.

wait‼‼ you don't take this game seriously? get him xiao that's clearly an anti-town thing to do. Oh whats that you can't see anyone but me? ok nothing to see here. I'm not behind this wall

If you can't see the difference in Slimer's posts and yours, then there's really no hope for you.



@MP5: The argument that the people who haven't responded to slimer's spoiler because he didn't leave their names in is a bit off. I'm sure most people here, mutley excluded, are smart enough to know their own post when they see it.

[Xiao Long]

You mean what you expect to "hear"? And you mean which you were scum so you could kill "him"? It's not that difficult, Mutley. My gender is clearly stated underneath my avatar.

It's okay though, I always expect your posts to be absolutely fuckin' useless, condescending, and full of grammatical and spelling errors that make it a nightmare to decipher anything you say. I also expect you to never address anything and just shrug it off. Your continuous garbage posting have made it quite clear to me that even if you aren't mafia, you're useless to this game and you need to be lynched. And I pray to god I never get queued into another fuckin' game with you.

[Xiao Long]

English not being your first language has nothing to do with race. And I asked you if English wasn't your first language, and as usual, you refused to address it so I assumed it must have meant you're actually just a fuckin' retard.

The only person who I haven't been civil towards is you, and you don't deserve civility. Like I said, I hope I never get put into another game with you.

[Xiao Long]

Why do you shorten the word fuckin'. Surely it is easier to write fucking.

It fits with my speaking style. Both are same amount of characters, so it's not like it's exceptionally harder to type it.

I hope I get every game with you, as you are easy to wind up.

I'm not wound up, this is just how I speak in general. I'm a bit more profane with people I don't like, but I'm certainly not banging around on my keyboard or anything.

Also, you still haven't explained what PKB or whatever means. Oh, and I'm going to refer to you as 傻B from now on.

This is how I see me and xiao.

This is really helping us find scum. Oh wait, you're scum, nevermind, you don't want to find your partner.

[Xiao Long]

Why can't you just write stupid in english and not in North korean. How are you helping find scum, but replying to me not helping find scum everytime? Just living up to your name PKB.

How I see slimer
http://www.missionmission.org/wp-conten ... ay-hi.jpeg

Oh look, more worthless posts.

Yes. I'm just very bored at the moment. Want day 1 to be over its got very boring.

I concede that it's boring due to inactivity, however it's no excuse to post constant garbage.

[Xiao Long]

How does Xiao not see she is so PKB. How is just posting what I've said and calling it garbage helpful? If its garbage ignore it. To me it seems like a mafia trying to get a lynch so that when I do turn town she can say well he was just annoying my B. Slimer trust me day 2 motivation is easy to come by once we have a lynch and a night to go by. Makes playing the game much easier.

It's a lot more helpful than purposely trying to wind someone up. Don't worry, 傻B, 你就是笨蛋。 ^_^

[Xiao Long]

Stop calling me stupid in north korean‼ It is actually less helpful imo because you are letting me achieve what I set out to achieve in getting a reaction out of you.

为什么？如果你不会打有用的话我只会打中文。　It's about as useful, imo.

Oh look, you actually made a play. Holy shit, my mind is blown. What are your reasons for suspecting kingpin of scum again? And I'd like to hear your own words, not someone else's.

[Xiao Long]

You said a minute ago its a lot more helpful now its as useful?

Pedantic, much?

If someone else asks I will say but as its you I will say refer to posts on which you asked me that before.

Now, now, little 傻B, that's not a good way to go about things.

[Xiao Long]

Well you shouldn't be so lazy as to not go back and make me answer the same stuff you've asked me before.

It's not laziness, I have a reason for asking you to explain it again in your own words.

[Xiao Long]

Yeah, I was gonna ask if you were changing your vote now that he's being replaced.

[Xiao Long]

Well he asked to be replaced, I wonder if it's cos he didnt have the time? would be nice to know.

I'm actually curious about that as well.

That being said, Spadille has been really inactive, is he v/la?

[Xiao Long]

Xegarus: Starts off with a wagon which makes him a little suspicious in my eyes, even if it were a joke Mutley does follow him onto it. Some nice play with Mutley, I especially like the fake hammer; Xeg practically carries the game at this point and really pressures Mutley. He answers all the questions directed at him and asks some very good ones of his own. Although I don't agree with him when he says Mutley is town, I respect him for taking a step back and looking at the situation again. Solid townread.

I still think he stepped off Mutley too quickly for comfort, but I still have yet to meta him to see if this is how he usually plays.

Xiao Long: Urgh the formatting is horrible horrible, thanks for changing it!

Why does no one here appreciate art. ;.;

I'm not sure what to think of him. He starts off very jovial and measured, does some scumhunting in his seventh post but then inexplicably votes MP5. He gets really really angry and rude from about #97 onwards which really contrasts with his earlier behaviour. The posts from about 100-112 are pretty good and he contributes to the town knowledge. His analysis takes a step back during the fake hammer scenario but this may be due to Xeg carrying the game. Apologises for his conduct earlier, then persists with the rudeness. I don't know; I've got a null read on him.

Why does everyone think I didn't have a reason for voting for MP5? Aghghahgloadsgowref. <.<
I just want to say that I wasn't angry at all (until the Mutley fiasco, at least), I just don't really filter my words and it can come off as quite rude. And I apologise to everyone except Mutley, who I am intentionally rude to.


I agree with your analysis of Voodoo, Mutley and Didi.
I'm not sure why you think MP5 is a solid townread. I have him as null-leaning town, but I can't justify saying he's complete town yet.

[Xiao Long]

Xiao is being equally antagonistic, in fact I'm pretty sure that he started part 2 of their argument by calling mutley a cunt. So why continue being disruptive?
It might be because of this post. It looks to me like Xiao might have been reacting to being called out on buddying by distancing himself further from Mutley.

That's a pretty big leap, and considering how others besides Mutley had fallen into the spotlight, wouldn't it make more sense for scum-me to go with the group?

However, if Mutley isn't scum, then I'd say that originally Xiao was trying to avoid responsibility for such an early mislynch

Because we were less than ten pages in, why would we hammer someone that early? (though, looking back, I wish we had)

I have, in fact, ISO'ed you and I've read every post you've made. I can in fact see that you withold things, and my issue is that you seem to withold everything. You leave everything open so that it can fit your story later if you need it to. I don't think you're scum from 'one little thing'; it comes from many things, some big and many small. I'm very confident in my read of you. You asked for facts and content, well, here it is.

I can tell you've ISO'd pretty much everyone, but have you read the interactions amongst the posts? The way you talk about certain things sounds like you only ISO'd which might give you the wrong impression. I'm not trying to say you're scummy for this, it's just more of a curiosity.

For didi refer to MP5s posts on him, at the time I had nothing feelings towards Didi. Then with MP5 pointing out things, couldn't beleive I had missed some of them. The good rubbing nature always trying to seem agreeable etc (hence why I had no suspicions on him it had worked on me) You can say oh but you are just following MP5 really. Well yes yes I am. Is that not the whole point of this game to work as a team. Thats why people make posts such as the ones you have done. To convince others of what you have seen, if we didn't follow in some way we would never get a lynch. Right now I'd be happy on Didi or slimer. Didi being my preference but a good case is building on slimer.

But Mutley, all you do is sheep. And half the time you don't even give your own reasoning for your votes. Just like here where you redirect to MP5's post.

[Xiao Long]

I have read the interactions between the posts, but as I have not gone through the game as you have I may have a few wrong impressions here and there. If anything in particular is a problem then raise it by all means and I'll look at it further.

Oh no, it's nothing too bad. Just some of your comments sounded a little odd. Your reads seem pretty thought out, though.

You've just sheeped to me and stayed.

Except I didn't sheep you, you were derailing the game and I put you at L-1. Since then, you've done nothing to justify me taking my vote off you, so why should I?

As I said surely we have to sheep sometimes.

You could at least put forth a little effort to make it seem like you weren't ONLY sheeping.

You don't seem to be contributing a whole lot to finding scum or agreeing with other people.

I'm comfortable with my vote for day one. Once day two starts, I'm sure my contributions will increase quite a bit.

You on the other hand are so blind to anyone but me you don't really want to listen to anyone else but put your vote on me.

Just because I'm not being exceptionally vocal in my thoughts on other players, doesn't mean I'm not taking everything in. There's been several posts in the past few pages that I've agreed with heavily but chose not to speak on them.

[Xiao Long]

That's nice that you think just cos you are happy with your day 1 vote you shouldn't be trying to get information for the future.

I guess this went over your head:

Just because I'm not being exceptionally vocal in my thoughts on other players, doesn't mean I'm not taking everything in.

And I'm not tunnel visioned on you, as I've already explained.

If you don't die tonight.............

#ScumSlips

[Xiao Long]

I think it's more of a scumtell considering how long it has been going on. He understands that this behavior is anti-town since he called Mutley out on it, but continued to do it.

Then ye be wrong, matey. arrrrr (I don't know why I am responding to this like a pirate)

You're right, it is a big leap, because it requires both you and Mutley to be scum, which seems unlikely. Can you explain that point more? I don't really remember what I read that well yet.

Wait, I'm confused, which would you like me to explain more?

I understand that, my point wasn't that it was scummy for you not to want Mutley lynched at that point. My point is that you are creating this big non-productive argument with Mutley and to me that argument seems to be the main basis for your vote on him.

Oh, I see. Nah, the argument only served to solidify my stance on Mutley, but I think I explained my reasons for voting for him before the argument. I could be wrong, I haven't looked in a while.
Anyways, if you want a run-down on why I'm voting for him:
1. Does nothing but derail the game and post absolutely nothing worthwhile for most of the game.
2. Sheeps everyone he can so that the pressure stays off him.
3. Is an asshole (okay, not a scum thing, I admit).
4. um..I had another reason but I can't remember right now. Oh well, one and two are enough for me.


As far as the slimer's weak defense whatever, I think he's saying that your accusations of him are so ridiculous that they don't warrant a proper response. Take from that what you will. I can't criticise him for that, cause I think I did something similar to MP5.

[Xiao Long]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Mutley

[Xiao Long]

Now that I'm back home, I can do a legit reply.

Spoiler:

I'll start with what I was GOING to post BEFORE Mutley hammered Slimer

I was confused about who was in the spot light and what.scum you would be going with.

I don't remember off the top of my head who it was, but once Xeg said that Mutley was town, others did too and they started pressuring someone else. Might have been kingpin or didi.

Yeah I might be wrong, I could see it being playstyle, but with the exception of mutley sheeping your points against him are the same as they were before the fake hammer. It just looks suspicious to me.

I'm actually curious why this is suspicious. If my reason for voting him hasn't changed, isn't that less scummy since I've been consistent with my reasons? Idk, maybe others see it as scummy.

If slimer flips scum, xiao is scum or all three are town I think. xiao is the only legit scum I'd consider because he brought Fsnake into it for nothing and then slimer continued the trend of having Fsnake into it.

Do you still think I'm scum, or have your reads changed?

Xiao is really aggressive. and despite saying this is his first game of mafia, he seems to know what a policy lynch is. hmm. Why so aggressive Xiao?

I dunno, I guess I'm just an aggressive person. Everything being text with no tone makes me seem much more aggressive, though. =P
And I knew what a policy lynch was cause I read dat wiki bro bro. Learned some decent stuff from it.

There is a difference though, Xiao. Do you

actually

think these accusations are so ridiculous that they don't warrant a proper response? I find them strong enough to want him lynched, and he is now at L-1. I'm almost happy to concede that my original accusation on you was frivolous enough that your lack of response wasn't terrible. Personally, my thoughts are that my accusations are much more serious now.

This is pretty much irrelevant now, but yeah, I thought your questions warranted response, I was just stating he didn't think so.

If slimer flips scum, then I will make a much greater effort to look at the interactions between slimer and the rest of you, but I won't waste my time until then. If he did, Didi is still a scum read, however I feel that frog has influenced me a little with his view on Didi so I may turn this around if I see Didi's slot improve. Not swayed by his thoughts on Muttley yet though.

Does Didi still read scummy to you?

I unvoted it straight away it was a clear joke.

I'm calling bullshit on this, you've stated that you've played mafia before (albeit on a different forum), so I think you're trying to play it off as a mistake.

Look I lied about my claim. I'm
Not VT. I am the Cop. Don't kill me.

Scum cop, maybe.

Okay, so now it's obvious Mutley is indeed mafia. (and he's trying to reverse psychology implicate me it seems)

What? Reverse psychology implicate you? Can you re-state this, cause it's confusing the hell out of me.

Let's see

Mutley: scum
Mac: leaning scum
frog: town
MP5: leaning town
Xiao: null
NicCage: null

Aside from Mac pushing hard to lynch Mutley, what about him reads scum?
And what about frog reads town?
And why is NicCage null to you? (only saying cause he seems town to me, though his predecessor didn't).

Wow I was about to go to bed but I just thought of something


What if

What if that whole fake hammer thing that Xegarus (who was replaced by Mac) pulled, was not to see people's and mutley's reaction
But rather to let his scumbuddy reply as if he was a townie who was sad with his death, to let him gain mad towncred
it's just a theory, but think about it, it fits

When the plan was prevented by someone (I think Voodoo Lady?) calling out that the hammer was fake, he then went on to do a back and forth with Mutley which ended with him making Mutley suddenly look town to people (while he was in quite the negative spotlight before)



I so hope I'm right about this
It's always fun when your crazy theories work out

This seems improbable, but quite possible. Just don't put all your eggs in this basket, because there actually is a good chance Mutley is town and just wants to shit up this game.

Quote boxes make big posts. xD

[Xiao Long]

@Xiao - does Didi still read scum to me? Well, his play has improved today, its not as strong of a read as yesterday. How do you see him?

My read on Didi keeps changing. His activity and involvement read town to me, and some of his posts look like legitimate scumhunts. At the same time, he's really hesitant to lynch Mutley. Post 217 seems like a really convenient defense after you called him out, "Oh, I'm a clueless townie, bro. I can't be responsible for this." I'll have to wait til later in the day to get a strong read for him, but atm, he's null.

My thoughts on xiao end of day 1 were leaning town. Now though its scum.

The last post by her says its a good chance that I'm town. Why the change considering everything I've done yesterday has been scummy? The change being that she knows I'm town and is using it in some kind of defence. The fact voodoo died last night also implicates xiao to me. Xiao was always so sure she was town. Hence the killing it would seem to not implicate xiao. In my eyes however it has.

I say there is a good chance of you being town because I'm hesitant to think that scum would be as out in the open and annoying as you. At this point, I honestly don't care whether you are town or scum, my vote is all policy lynching. If that makes others think I'm scummy, so be it.
And yeah, if you can show me a post from Voodoo that reads scummy to you, then do it. Most of her posts had so much town aura, I don't see how someone could think she was anything other than.

Here's how I saw Didi's reaction (you aren't the only one with crazy theories!)

> Mutley hammers/admits scum/claims cop bla bla
> someone pushes for the lynch immediately (that's me)
> Scum buddy uses this to pressure the person pushing for quick lynch (that's Didi pressuring me)

Wouldn't this be too bold and obvious for scum, though? Seems like, if Mutley is scum, his buddy would be quite aware that he would get votes on him immediately. Wouldn't that mean he would let it happen so as not to risk his cover being blown? Or is this just some WIFOM moment I'm having?

frog is quite suspicious for me too, prior to Equinox confirming that Mutley had voted slimer, he was quite reluctant to vote Mutley until finding out if Mutley had hammered slimer. I found that quite suspicious, purely because Mutley had already admitted being mafia.

This is pretty much the only thing that really reads scummy to me as far as Frog goes. What do you think of his play in general though? To me, if I include Spadille, then Frog is scummy. If I don't, Frog himself is null.

[Xiao Long]

By the way Xiao, I replaced into Kingpin's slot, not Spadille's.

Wooooow, I'm dumb, my bad. Then you're null, leaning-town to me. I forgot it was NicCage that replaced Spadille.

Why are you asking me to find posts where voodoo was scummy? I'm just saying you were the more vocal one about it and she died. I'm sure we all thought she was town. However I'm saying as you were more vocal is that why you killed her because people wouldn't bring it back on to you?

Pure fantasy. If you all thought she was town, then you have nothing on me except I stated it. Besides, scum-me would have killed Mac as he's easily the most threatening at the moment.
I do think it's cute how you're trying to start a wagon back up on me.

[Xiao Long]

The thing I don't get is, you didn't have anything to lose from it. If you voted Mutley after (like I did) then the mod would've just discounted it and moved on - it's not like we would've gained a warning. I kinda get the feeling, if you are scum, you MAY have wanted to wait and see there was a chance for your scumbuddy Mutley to survive the lynch before bussing him if there wasn't a chance.

At that point, assuming that Mutley's hammer did not count, Mutley was at L-1 (L-2, you voted him, then he voted himself). Voting for him would be a hammer without a claim, not something I really advocate. I clearly

did

have a lot to lose by voting Mutley and, potentially, so did the town as well. I don't understand how my unwillingness to hammer without a claim whilst there's a rules issue makes me suspicious? If anything, doesn't the fact that you asked me to hammer Mutley under such circumstances make you look suspicious?

I just want to say, it wouldn't have been hammering without a claim because he claimed earlier in day 1 when he was at L-1. I think you'd have had a lot more to gain from voting Mutley, especially considering Slimer flipped cop.

[Xiao Long]

Mac would have been kept alive, as he was always going to be vocal on me.

That doesn't make sense.

I haven't started a bandwagon? You should read. I've voted Didi and if I for some reason don't get lynched I want Didi lynched.

I said trying to start-

trying

.

Mine is a theory on why they killed voodoo. I had you as town until today when you now are saying I could possibly be town but still want me lynched (which is fine I don't expect anyone not to lynch me) However I don't understand why you've changed your stance to could be a troll and town, rather than whay you've always said which is scum and troll?

What has made you change to that? even though I have admitted to being scum?

Didn't I say Day 1 that it's possible you are town? Either way, my view on you being a troll hasn't changed. I still think you're scum, I'm simply acknowledging the possibility that you aren't.

[Xiao Long]

I think you'd have had a lot more to gain from voting Mutley, especially considering Slimer flipped cop.

Xiao, you realise nobody except theslimer himself knew he was a cop, right? And how would I have gained anything from voting Mutley, when regardless of whether I did or not theslimer would be lynched anyway?

I'm speaking in retrospect, but still, even at the time, you'd have been better off voting Mutley than Slimer, especially considering Mutley was far scummier than Slimer. You'd have gained a decent bit of town points, most likely. Don't let my post about this trouble you too much, just a bit of devil's advocate.

[Xiao Long]

I personally think you would have been better off voting Mutley in the first place, but as of the post where Mutley hammered Slimer, you should have changed your vote, yes. You clearly were not aware whether his unvote in the same post counted or not, just seems like it would have been logical to say, "Hey, this is a really shitty thing Mutley just did, and I'm not sure if his unvote counts. If it does count, then I should vote Mutley." And it wouldn't have been hammering him without a claim since he claimed in post 158. There was really no reason to wait to see what Equinox would say.

[Xiao Long]

Okay, then why didn't you unvote Slimer at the very least? Would that not have "ensured" we'd have more time in D1?

[Xiao Long]

When is this proposed unvote? If it was after Mutley's post then, by the time I had got there, he was at L-2 (Mutley and Mac unvoted); i.e not an unsafe place to be. If it is before his hammer post, then I had no chance to, since between my last post and Mutley's hammer post Mac had put him at L-1 and Mutley had hammered.

Alright, that's good enough for me.

[Xiao Long]

So why is self-lynching not against the rules? That seems to be the most absolutely fucking useless play you can make. I'm not sad he got lynched, I'm glad he's out the game, but his complete lack of helpfulness has put us in a predicament for day three. I can vote now and have a 50% chance of hitting mafia, but I don't even know who to vote for atm. Mac seems most likely due to his random flip from Slimer to Mutley (well, I say random, but Mutley deserved it). Could be because he knew Slimer would flip town and wanted to get the blame off of himself. He also harped on the frog not voting Mutley thing a little longer than necessary. I like the level of activity he brings to the game though, even if I don't exactly agree with some of his points.
Anyway, assuming he actually is scum, not sure who could be his partner yet.

[Xiao Long]

Then vote for me.

[Xiao Long]

My comment was more directed at Mac than you, Didi.

Okay guys: here's the deal. I am vanilla. You can choose whether or not you believe this, but if you are town, placing a vote on me loses the game.

Let's be honest, all of us that are here right now can say this sentence with just as much credibility.

#415 is where Xiao Long starts calling mutley scum and ends with "there's a good chance he's town and just trolling us." If that's not scum looking for town cred when he inevitably flipped town I don't know what is.

It would appear you don't know what is, then.

Note he was still voting for Mutley too.

Yes, I was. And according to the post you made

right before this one:

"Anyway, it's likely that scum didm't vote Mutley as they knew the inevitable was coming."
So what is it? Am I scum looking for town cred? Or am I town?

Read #436 and #439.

"I can't be scum, I would've killed Mac!!!!"

Mutley:

"Mac would be kept alive for pushing my lynch on d2"

Xiao:

"That doesn't make sense!!!"

It made perfect sense. Xiao is scum.

Right, so, ignoring your use of exclamation marks to try to make my posts out to be more scummy and exasperated than they are, what about this makes me scum?
Can you even give a legitimate answer to this? I said if I were scum, I would have killed you. And that's true. It's quite clear from how hard you're trying to push something on me that you're easily the most threatening here. And what Mutley said didn't make sense. You being killed would have cast even more suspicion on him since you started pushing him hard at the end of day one.

Again, if you think I'm scum, vote for me.

[Xiao Long]

Xiao, if you were town, you wouldn't be telling me to vote for you.

Why not? You seem to be sure I'm scum, yet you're not voting for me. All you're doing is wasting time. You're clearly not confident in your own analysis.

The thing is: Mutley made perfect sense.

Hold on, let me chuckle for a bit.

By the way, the reason Xiao is telling me to vote him is so he can say "look, I haven't been quickhammered, Mac is maf."

No, I'm telling you to vote for me if you think I'm scum instead of pussyfooting around.

No, that doesn't make sense. If he thinks I'm the maf, he should place a vote on me. But he doesn't - because when there's no quickhammer it proves me or him is scum.

You're right, I should place a vote on you.
VOTE: Mac

If he's town and scum hammers him, GG

[Xiao Long]

Unvote

Why are you so quick to jump on this Nic?

[Xiao Long]

Scum won't hammer me because you are scum.

Or you're scum. Perhaps we should play a bit of Russian roulette? See, I'm not scum, and I'm quite aware of that. The only thing I know for certain is two of the four people besides me are scum. The possibility of you being scum is quite high.

[Xiao Long]

I have no intention of having anyone lynched tonight. We've got quite a bit of time left in this day.

[Xiao Long]

While I actually do believe Mac has a very high chance of being scum, I'm not sure the Mac-Didi conversation could be planned out that well. I'm not ruling it out as a possibility, of course.
So, if you think Mac and Didi are scum, what makes you think me and Frog are town?

[Xiao Long]

Er, Didi, I'm having a slight problem understanding what you're talking about. Would you mind explaining:

he seems like he's going out of his way to agree with me. He has the same initial scumreads as me this phase, and while I stated first that I think he's likely town he states that he has seen me as a townread since he's been in the game.

So, you think he's scum because he stated you were town after you said he was? 336 was his first real post of the game and he said you were likely town.

What I find even more odd about this is that nobody seems to think this strange, and point this out. If I was mafia, and 2 people seemed to be connected like that I'd definitely point it out to try and get one of them lynched. Which makes me think that must mean that the mafia don't want to point this out themselves because they don't want frog, who is mafia, to be lynched. However they do want to establish the connection so that in the event frog gets lynched, the remaining mafiaguy can easily point towards me as appearing scum.
It also could simultaniously work as a ploy to get me to trust frog and vote along with him on a townie.

Wait, think what is strange? And connected like what?
If you could maybe reword this, that would be great, cause right now I'm confused as to what you're getting at.

[Xiao Long]

Oh okay, that post is clearer.
The thing is, that plan doesn't make any sense because it wouldn't prove anything. If you're scum and you vote him he won't be hammered. If he's scum then he still wouldn't be hammered. If you're scum and he votes you you you won't be hammered, if he's scum and he votes you you won't be hammered.
You were trying to frame it up like his vote on you would prove something so you could use that against him rather than just voting according to your suspicions against Xiao.

There's one more possibility you aren't considering-it's possible both me and Mac are town and scum is letting us convince the rest of town to vote for one or the other. If this is the case, it casts more suspicion on you, imo. There's also the possibility that me, you AND Mac are town and Didi and Frog are letting us screw around. But I don't think that's the case, because if both Didi and Frog are scum, then the game would be over because they would have just voted either you or Mac.
In short, this leaves us with the fact that either both you and Mac are scum, or one of you is scum and one of Didi and Frog is scum.

Also, I reckon Xiao is pretty much conftown for me, Spadille replaced in and immediately pushed him and so did Nic.

Can't see scum bussing like that, plus he unvoted follow NicCage's ridiculous sheeping vote. Town move.

Or I could just be a really brilliant scum player. Honestly though, you shouldn't rule out the possibility of me being scum.

So everyone else, does Mac's "Xiao was planning to frame me" argument make sense?

If I'm scum, then it makes perfect sense. And it also makes perfect sense if Mac is scum. The only way it doesn't make sense is if we're both town.

[Xiao Long]

But yeah Xiao, you're right in #531, but that is a possibility from your perspective, not from mine.
And that's an interesting point actually, you could be scum with Mac and your vote on him could be a gambit. But I seriously doubt that is the case.

What about it makes it not a possibility from your perspective?

Most people should be in agreement that at least you or Mac is scum.
The only possible scenarios atm are:
1. Both you and Mac are scum.
or
2. One of you and Mac are scum, and one of me, Frog and Didi are scum.
It's impossible for both you and Mac to be town since the two scum would have ended the game already.

Does anyone disagree with this?

[Xiao Long]

Working on an animation assignment, will do Iso's of Mac and Nic either later tonight or tomorrow. No one drop any votes for now (though I don't think you were going to lol)

[Xiao Long]

Okay, so I've ISO'd both Nic and Mac and the first thing I can say is: holy shit, these player replacements really fuck with reads.
This post isn't going to be very in depth, but I will gladly elaborate if you guys want.

Mac:
Working through Mac's post is easier than Nic's because it's only two different people to pay attention to.
Xeg was a bit null for me, but some things make me skeptical of him. He pushes really hard on Mutley for good reasons, but then randomly says, "I like you" and "Mutley is town" when Mutley didn't really give a worthwhile defense or anything. Now, ignoring the fact that we now know Mutley is town, go reread his posts before his lynch and tell me with a straight face that he's obvtown.
Mac replaces and gives his reads and votes Slimer who we all now know was town cop. Mac has followed Xeg in the flip-floppy area. He starts by thinking Slimer is scum and should be lynched, then says Mutley is scum and should be lynched. He also stated I was the only legit scum in post 371. He continues this thought process after both Mutley and Slimer are gone until I unvote him and he thinks I'm town.


Nic: Nic is harder to read because his character encompassed three different players with three very different personalities.
Fsnake-very passive, generally town actions, but a tad sheepish.
Spadille-starts out the gate immediately with a horrid attack on me trying his best to get votes thrown my way. And that's literally all he did during his short time here.
Nic-Much more level headed and seems to be far more experienced than his predecessors. His first real post is quite town. He tries to get the antagonism between me and Mutley to stop, he also agreed that Spadille's case was awful, yet decided to keep the vote on me. I can't really blame him for that, though. He defends Xeg's actions saying they read town to him, which is interesting considering our current possibility of he and Mac both being scum. He also ran into my Mac vote bait pretty hard.

So, who do I think is scum? ....idk. If I had to choose in the next ten seconds, I'd say Mac. Nic has generally been more confident and rational in his plays.
So, how do we proceed? Well, if you want me to do a more in depth ISO, I will do so tomorrow when I have more time. What I want from ALL OF YOU is an ISO of everyone left in the game and what your reads are on them and why. I will also do this tomorrow as I haven't ISO'd Didi and Frog yet, but I did see some interesting things in my reread.

[Xiao Long]

Post 371

[Xiao Long]

slimer adding fuel to the flames of xega/xiao and somehow incorporating Fsnake into it. I'm not sure how or why Fsnake comes into this at all other than xiao asking him which side he's on. it's like he's trying to push the three of you into a battle he can watch from the side.

If slimer flips scum, xiao is scum or all three are town I think. xiao is the only legit scum I'd consider because he brought Fsnake into it for nothing and then slimer continued the trend of having Fsnake into it.

It was in the spoiler.

[Xiao Long]

So much pressure, lol.
Though I don't know why I'm conf-town. It's still possible that I am scum.

[Xiao Long]

And yeah, feel free to take your time. We have a while before deadline.

[Xiao Long]

Mac replaces and gives his reads and votes Slimer who we all now know was town cop. Mac has followed Xeg in the flip-floppy area. He starts by thinking Slimer is scum and should be lynched, then says Mutley is scum and should be lynched. He also stated I was the only legit scum in post 371. He continues this thought process after both Mutley and Slimer are gone until I unvote him and he thinks I'm town.

Please explain how this is flip-floppy. The only people I have voted for were slimer and Mutley. Both incorrectly but that's not flip-floppy.

Your biggest example of flip-flopping was start of day three when you started out basically saying I was confscum, then within the span of a page changed your mind to me being conftown.

WHY WOULD SCUM ME QUICKLYNCH THAT WHEN THE DISCUSSION WAS IRRELEVANT? WHY WOULD SCUM ME STOP TOWN MAKING UP FALSE LINKS BETWEEN MUTLEY AND WHOEVER?

Quicklynching mutley was actually a really good scum idea, because now if we mislynch we lose.

So, you obviously think Nic is scum, can you ISO frog, didi and myself and let us know who you think to be scummiest?

Calls for a quicklunch numerous times but Didi stops him

Wow, Didi, why would you do that? What if we were really hungry?

[Xiao Long]

To throw us off so that if we lynch Mac, we won't look your way and we can win. It's actually a clever plan, and I wouldn't put it passed you. Y'know, if you're scum. ;D

[Xiao Long]

Er, we won't look your way and YOU can win... damn quicklunch typo syndrome. =P

[Xiao Long]

lol, okay, I don't know why it's saying today is my birthday. My birthday is in October, haha. I even checked my User CP to make sure I had that set to my bday and I do. xD

[Xiao Long]

Whoops, didn't realise it had been so long since I posted. I'm keeping up and will be doing reads of Didi and Frog tomorrow after my classes end. Tonight I'm stuck working on projects.

[Xiao Long]

Whoops, didn't realise it had been so long since I posted. I'm keeping up and will be doing reads of Didi and Frog tomorrow after my classes end. Tonight I'm stuck working on projects.

Okay, so it's obvious this didn't happen. Apologies, will try to get them done tonight. Getting into that finals time at university, so a little more busy lately.

[Xiao Long]

why would I push for frog and Mutley scum team pretty hard if I knew Mutley was going to flip town? Why would I make links, "pretend discussion" whilst I knew it would be irrelevant when Mutley flipped?

It could be to make yourself appear more town. Honestly, if you are scum, I don't see why you WOULDN'T do this. Mutley was an easy lynch, scum knew this, town knew this. The only stupid thing is I didn't actually think Mutley would lynch himself (aka - didn't know self-lynch wasn't against the rules). If I had known that, I probably would have unvoted him (even though I wanted him gone).

I see my reads changing naturally through a series of posts. I guess voting without spelling out my reasons wasn't smart, but I did have reasons, I stated a couple of them in 481 and I've only expanded on them after Xiao's unvote.

Voting without stating reasons indeed wasn't smart as now you're stuck forced to leave your vote on Mac the rest of the day. The only thing that makes me ponder is whether you assumed your scum buddy would vote immediately after you and win, thus meaning Mac isn't scum, or you're a legitimate town that likes to jump the gun. The latter seems most unlikely, though.

[Xiao Long]

Oh, it could also mean that you and Mac are scum buddies and you voting Mac and no one else voting him would prove Mac's scumminess thus taking the pressure off you for the rest of the game. Ooh la, quite difficult.

[Xiao Long]

I'm only stating that it's not the best thing you can use to defend yourself. But I don't think it's the best thing to attack you on, either.

[Xiao Long]

Time to do Didi ;D

Starts off the game quite town, imo. He asks questions, tries to pressure, etc. He says he's been playing mafia regularly since 2007/08, so we can assume he's quite experienced. Applies pressure to Xeg who replies aggressively. Unfortunately, his pressure sort of loses its steam when he says "My hunch isn't strong enough yet that I'll try and drag others into this. I'll just see how this all develops" in post 75. Maybe this is just Didi's playstyle, but for me, I wouldn't want to let people relax. Even if they're not scum, pressure loses meaning when you say stuff like this. Post 217 bothers me. Your comment at the end of that post "So, I get it that you suspect me, but you're on the wrong track. I'm just a clueless townie." seems waaaaay too convenient.

Post 399 is fairly town. Tries not to rush the Mutley lynch and give everyone time to state their thoughts. 404 and 406 really echo the town sentiment. Post 419 might even be a town slip as he doesn't realise scum don't have daytalk. It's possible that he was leaving an intentional town slip, but I don't know if he's clever enough for this (no offense), but one must not forget he's experienced in mafia, so it's possible it was an intentional slip. 461 is VERY town, imo. Dislikes Mutley for derailing the game, gets pissed at Mac for putting him at L-1 after Mutley stated he would self-lynch.

Post 495 has Didi start to think Frog is scummy, despite believing he was town earlier with the argument that Frog is going out of his way to agree with him.

The only person I've seen make a decent case against Didi was MP5, but he's pretty town to me (or is he ;D).

I don't see anymore enlightenment coming from Nic and Mac continuously bickering with each other, so let's put the focus on someone else. So, I think today should be Discuss Didi Day (DDD).

[Xiao Long]

Whoa, really sorry, the weekend sort of got away from me. I'll be doing my ISO of Frog tomorrow, and hopefully we can come to a resolution on the Mac/Nic thing.

[Xiao Long]

Going to class now, will comment my thoughts when I get there.

[Xiao Long]

So yeah, I didn't have any internet when I went to class for some reason. Anyways, I'm going to hammer either later tonight or tomorrow, at this point I'm not sure who I'm voting for. =/

[Xiao Long]

You guys have put me in a really awkward position. xD

Spoiler:

Does anyone have any additional thoughts before I hammer either Nic or Mac tomorrow?

[Xiao Long]

Well, I guess no one else has anything to say. In that case:

Vote:Nic

If I'm wrong, GG.
If I'm right, probably still GG since I'll probably be NK'd, lol.

[Xiao Long]

How fitting that NicCage's death description be post 666.

Good morning, Frog and Mac.

[Xiao Long]

Yeah, I'm thinking Mac is scum too. I'll give him one shot at proving that you're scum, but it's pretty much GG now.

[Xiao Long]

Whenever you're able, I'd like to see you do an ISO of frog as he's already done one of you.

[Xiao Long]

I'd like to keep my own thoughts on frog private for the time being. I'm doing what I can to look at this from all angles, including your view of frog without my own thoughts influencing you.

[Xiao Long]

I'd really prefer if you guys didn't spend this day on that one point. Mac, I'm still waiting on your frog ISO.

[Xiao Long]

I am here, I'm just waiting til the weekend so I can post decently.

[Xiao Long]

Just a heads up, finals are next week, so I'll probably be ending this game Monday. Tomorrow I will do my iso of frog and look into Mac again, in the mean time, if there's anything else you guys feel needs to be pointed out, please do so.

[Xiao Long]

Yeah, sorry, I ended up getting sick and sleeping the weekend away. As a result, I'll do my iso of frog tomorrow and I'll hammer whoever by Wednesday.

[Xiao Long]

Frog ISO:

Starting with Kingpin:
Post 80 is a fairly town post. He votes MP5 after MP5 voted me for bogus reasons. Could be an attempt at buddying, though.
195 and 207 read to me as too scared to hammer, possibly because he knew Mutley was town (I mean, if I were in his shoes, I'd have hammered Mutley then and there.)

Frog:
Gets in and posts reads at 336 and 337.
His reads are:
Town:
Voodoo
MP5
Didi
Xeg/Mac

Scum:
Mutley
Slimer

Null:
Nic
Xiao

So, basically, his two scum reads were both confirmed town later on. I'm not saying this is obvious scum, I'm just acknowledging the possibility of it being scumfrog's attempt to weed off town.

The whole Mutley hammering Slimer ordeal takes place and both Frog and Mac seem to look pretty town and in a general "wtf" state of mind at him hammering Slimer. I still don't understand Frog's reluctance to no vote Mutley until he knew the Slimer vote had been solidified or not.
Regardless, both Mac and Frog read Mutley as confirmed scum on day three, so that's not much help.

420 (swag) is a pretty town post to me. He says he can't see Mac and Mutley being scum together, and he asks someone to remove their vote so that the day doesn't end too soon.
491 reads town to me as he wants everything to slow down even though he thinks Mac should be lynched. It's not a very scum thing to do since we were in Lylo, he could have just tried harder to push Mac if he were scum.

Everything after that is the whole "I think it's mac and nic" thing and there's not much there to point out that hasn't already been pointed out.





Here's the deal, I don't particularly care whether town wins this game or not. Mutley really fucked us by hammering himself. While it is admittedly fun trying to deduce who is and isn't scum in a 50/50 scenario, the alternative would have been much more preferable - a competent townie that would have contributed.

[Xiao Long]

One question that's been on my mind is why would Nic leap at the chance to vote Mac after I did?
You two discuss.

[Xiao Long]

Except that would be a stupid plan if both Nic and Mac are scum since I was being exceptionally scummy during lylo and Nic could have just voted for me instead. Or not voted at all and tried to build a case against me. It wouldn't have been hard.

[Xiao Long]

No point in bringing up what has happened in previous games. This is the only one that is relevant to us now.
It would have been stupid because all scum needed was to lynch one townie to win and we weren't even a day into D3 when I caught Nic.

[Xiao Long]

They did only have to lynch one more townie, but it's at its most difficult in LyLo. The plan allowed scum player to seem all but confirmed so they can win on the next day. Sheeping your vote was the best opportunity to execute that plan. I don't know what more I can say, since I don't know why scum didn't try a different plan since I'm not scum.

The problem with this is that he could have twisted it to make me out to be scum with Mac if no one followed up my vote. There was literally no reason to sheep my vote at that time unless he was rather confident he his buddy could have hammered him.

Plus there was no quickhammer, which would seem to indicate that Mac is scum.

There was no quickhammer because I unvoted as soon as I saw Nic's vote (meaning I kept refreshing until someone voted after I did.)
I knew immediately Nic was scum, but I wanted D3 to play out so I could find more information. Both you and Mac are exceptionally viable candidates for being his scum buddy. I was hoping by me saying that I would most likely vote Mac that one of you two would scum/town slip, but you both continued to do the boring thing of saying, "I'm not scum, he is."

[Xiao Long]

Granted there were only 3 minutes before his unvote, but that's long enough for a quickhammer, don't you think?

I was confident that it wouldn't happen as the only other person online at the time was Didi, and I was quite certain Didi was town - something I didn't want to let onto until I did his ISO.

[Xiao Long]

Actually, Xiao, Nic couldn't possibly have twisted it to say you're scum. If you voted Mac and Nic voted you, then that means that 2 of you/Nic/Mac would be scum; that's a 2/3 chance of losing the game outright. Given that a Nic/Xiao or a Mac/Xiao scumteam looked unlikely by D3, Nic voting you was hardly a valid tactic.

Not quite, if I voted Mac and Nic voted me, we could still only assume that at least one of me, Nic and Mac were scum.

It's like this:
D3 starts with -
Xiao
Nic
Didi
Mac
Frog

There's five of us, two being scum. Ignoring the fact that we now know Nic and Didi's roles, any of us five could have been scum.
Me voting Mac was a scummy thing to do because if Mac was town, then both scum could have voted after me and won the game.
Nic could have used my vote against me and voted for me instead. Doing this, I wouldn't be hammered because Nic was scum. This would reveal to us that at least one of me and Nic were scum. It would reveal nothing about Mac, though.

[Xiao Long]

Now, assume Mac is scum. ScumMac, in order to seem town, should vote Xiao.

Or he could tell everyone to slow down and start thinking about things more so that we don't rush into a mislynch. That would seem even more town, honestly.

But wait. When there's no quickhammer it means that two of Xiao/Nic/Mac are scum (you say that it indicates that one of Xiao/Mac/Nic are scum, but if so, then surely Didi or I would have followed through with a plan similar to that illustrated above. Since that wouldn't have happened, 2 of the 3 must be scum). With so much suspicion on Mac on D2 and D3, this is a risky situation at best. But if he doesn't vote, we ask him why he doesn't and he's at a loss to explain himself (since there's literally no reason not to unless you're scum). The game unravels at that point and Nic and Mac lose.

Do you see what I mean? If Mac were town then Nic would have voted you, Mac votes you, and his partner hammers. The fact that this didn't happen shows that Mac is scum.

All of this doesn't matter because you're assuming there is only one possible way for them to act in that situation.

[Xiao Long]

No, if he doesn't vote you after you vote him then that screams scum. If there's no quickhammer in that scenario and he isn't voting you then he is scum. There's no 'seems' since at that point it is definite.

I have to disagree here. Because if I'm voting Nic and Nic is voting me, then TownMac will not want to mislynch when we're in Lylo - meaning if townmac puts his vote on whoever is not scum of me and Nic, then we end up with the other scum coming in and hammering town. This means that ScumMac will also not want to place a lynch so that he can secure a win should someone vote for town.

Don't ignore the last bit. The fact that the first option (going after you) wasn't followed proves that Mac is Nic's partner.

How?

[Xiao Long]

Er, means that ScumMac will not want to place a VOTE so that he can secure a win.

[Xiao Long]

Because the first option is an easy win for scum if Mac is town. If Mac is scum, however, then they cannot pursue that option. Since scum did not pursue that option, Mac is scum.

Can you explain this better please? I'm having a hard time following your logic.

[Xiao Long]

*tumbleweed*

[Xiao Long]

As you said earlier, Nic could easily have pounced on you and tried to get you lynched. This wouldn't have been hard, if we assume Mac is town (since at the time he suspected you and after that vote he'd have likely gone for you). If Mac votes Xiao then Nic's partner hammers for the win.

Unless he unvotes before Nic's partner can hammer.

(or, if mac refuses to vote, he's asked 'why?' since if you're town and voted in Lylo then voting the person who has voted you is the correct play, and he's at a loss to explain himself).

But Mac did vote for the person who voted for him, so why do you think he's scum now instead of that situation?

[Xiao Long]

I have shown that Nic not going for the seemingly easy Xiao lynch hints that Mac is his partner.

I think it hints you're his partner more than Mac, because not voting me means Nic sheeped me in hopes of his scumbuddy hammering.

You guys did manage to confuse the living shit out of me in the last four or five posts though.

[Xiao Long]

And yet, if I were scum, it would be far less risky to go for you rather than Mac.

How? Mac was a scum suspect for a couple people already.

[Xiao Long]

I flipped a coin.

VOTE: frog

[Xiao Long]

lol, I was going to vote frog anyways, but I decided to flip a coin just to see what chance had to say about it. Chance also said frog. After I caught Nic D3 I was about 94% certain that either Didi or Frog was his scum buddy, and before I hammered D3, I was 98% certain Didi was town and frog was scum. I just let D4 play out because 1. I was busy with school and kept forgetting about the game, and 2. I wanted to make scum slip harder for my own personal amusement. At the start of D4 I mentioned I was most likely going to hammer you, Mac, but I kind of wanted to see how you two would react to that. Despite how sure I was, you were pretty scummy Mac, and that did mess with me a little bit, haha. I wouldn't mind playing another game with you lads, though.

[Xiao Long]

You people are too eager to end games, I'd rather let it continue because your responses to each other were getting rather humourous.

[Xiao Long]

Reading the graveyard thread has me lolling hard, too.

[Xiao Long]

Good game, I had fun. Xiao, you're a tricky bastard, you know that? I should have known better than to vote, I saw you and frog online and I thought I had a chance. Should have just called you out for voting.

Sorry frog! You were a good partner, I think we would have won if not for me.

Haha, I got really lucky with that play, I wasn't sure if it'd work. Up until that point, I hadn't suspected frog much at all, and I only suspected you because of Spadille. You guys were fun to play with.

So what did we learn here? Trolling only hurts town, never do it ever.

+1