Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

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SHit....

I was crossing my fingers hoping to replace in as scum so i didnt have to read these walls of text

are flips not revealed? There is a blacked out blank where id expect dead players flips to be in roster post.

Everyone give me a summary based on your perspective... But beware of the new summary meta lol http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28238

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Ok well i just opened with the best towntell ever so dont fos my slot anymore

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can i just call barcode avi with numbers for a username and precise phrasing. mr barcode?

VOTE: mrbarcode[/'vote]

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Fml not again

VOTE: z7

That name probably works better anyways

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Why do you think he is town

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Tbh i just saw his last post and gut-voted him -- my gut churned really hard tho.

If i had to make reason to support my gut id say

Over-explainy... Fossing people who arnt - going after a lurker - not reading into intent. all of this from his last post.

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I also read his predecesor as scum when i first started attempting to read the thread --- didnt know it was the same slot till now...

I love the irony of how the replacement is doing what his predecesor warned was an easy scum tactic

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Then again i read my own slot as scum before i replaced into it and was really hoping it was a scumslot


Sigh

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Ok i take it back UNVOTE: z7

VOTE: VE

Skimmed ISOand general impression over the span was good - i like how hes calling out VE's hypocrisy. Mosing on to VE's iso - inb4 another unvote

Ffer is town but ffer is always town in my eyes fml

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actually i take that back... Ffer is reading more towny than ive seen ffer read - hard defending like that ---- pretty solid stance and i doubt its a buddy defend

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He's like willfully ignoring my filter - repeatedly asserting that "I'm not doing any scumhunting" as his reasoning for being suspicious of me when I'M ONE OF THE ONLY PEOPLE ACTIVELY TRYING TO DISCERN OTHERS ALIGNMENTS. Why, when feryl's and my playstyles are almost identical, does he have us on opposite ends of the scum spectrum? WHY?!

Quite obviously a town vs town debate

So that makes 3 people i want to clear for today and including myself thats 4 soo---- 7 people? That means if im right i have a 2/3 chance of hitting next vote right....

UNVOTE: VE

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what?

I just townread you harder than i have in any of the game we are in and any of your other active games ive been lurking---- reason? You defended barcode's slot really hard - and for good reason...... I doubt you are a scumteam so that leaves you as town... Still confused?

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I mean i guess i could change my mind and say you are hard defending him because you feel like he will be lynched anyways and want to look towny but you seem to have legit reasoning.... and genuine concern

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So who is left.... 2/3 scum. - lets hit one

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GuyInFreeze

have been inactive quite sometime. Unlike Mac (#1533) I don't certainly see this as scummy but at least it's suspicious. He have been posting yesterday but not on this game.

that's not what I said I found scummy about him & is, quite frankly, a big misrep.

these two are not a team


That leaves my process of POE with one confirmed scum if all the reads are correct

VOTE: GIF

Final answer... Sheep plz

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Ooops... Misread a name in one of those posts... Damn i thought this was gunna be ez - that only says those two arnt a scumtweam and i already decided z7 istown... Going back

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UNVOTE: GIF

Pedit: no worries i will be done soon - i just need to find the post that says 2 of those three arent a scumteam and vote the other one like i just attempted to do

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People I will not vote today, even if it would be as a compromise: VE, ff, Deras
People I would vote today as a compromise only: AA9, Rev
People I would happily vote today: Z, Fe, Mac


PEDIT: CAPSLOCK FOREVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
DON'T BE A DICKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

this might be a helpful hint

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Im not doing random stuff barcode- i explained every step of the way - ffer has good meta on your predecessor - your playstyles clash with VE and you both look like buthurt town - if im wrong about my POE i really dont care because im voting in one of the 3 remaining players regardless and second guessing yourself is a garbage strat after you have followed a reasonable line of logic.

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Time for a smokebreak ffer you can go to bed ill see you tomorrow - i got some wrangling to do with barcode it seems anyways... I can just feel the incoming wall of text telling me why i havnt displayed logic

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Hello everyone. Nice to see someone familiar faces, and not so familiar faces too in this game.

I've had a brief scan through on my phone and Deras makes me feel uneasy for his blatant OMGUS on Rev and it looked like a bit of a shotgun defence of himself. I think it's worth keeping an eye on, it could be a scum reaction but similarly, it could be newbtown too.

Currently off to work, will have a more indepth look when I get back.

how did this guy not get instalynched after his first post?

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Derus was obvious town all d1... Which is why he died n1 2 of the 3 people left in my poe list had the person they replaced vote to lynch him almost immediately for shitty reasons

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Lemme factcheck that statement - i keep having to check and recheck replacement identities - being a late replacement in a replacement heavy game kinda sucks

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But then there is revenues asking carey(VE) to replace out... I was wondering if that was a scum to scum interation or scum trying to look town for asking a towny to replace out for being useless or just a natural response

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Mac echoed the call to replace out

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So mac and revenus voted the same obvious town for bad reasons and both asked carey to replace out and. Mac townreads revenus based on last games meta... Seems buddyish... Worthy to note that mac is the one doing the echoing of revenus and townreading him so could be scum cozying up to town

VOTE: mac

I vould see a goodmoring/mac team fairly easily

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@z7 my job is to give you a freash perspective... Getting too involved with the entire game is both tedius and likely unfruitful... Im looking at key points. My emotional distace from the game should be viewed as an asset that counteracts everyones over-involvement... Let me play my part.

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So mac and revenus voted the same obvious town for bad reasons and both asked carey to replace out and. Mac townreads revenus based on last games meta... Seems buddyish... Worthy to note that mac is the one doing the echoing of revenus and townreading him so could be scum cozying up to town

VOTE: mac

I vould see a goodmoring/mac team fairly easily

By voted i mean "pushed" i dont think mac actually voted or i havnt seen it yet.

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Tbh tho im still reading but my second guessing will only go as far as the bounds of mac/gif/goodmorning

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@Deras: If you're actually paying attention and have time to say you are, you have time to post a brief post with a read or two instead of "lol I'll try again later".

Votes stand out in thread. It is very easy to skim the thread looking for a vote on you to OMGUS if you're into that sort of thing.

@ffffff: I am aware that that was the vote you thought was an OMGUS vote, being the only vote I have made on Fro so far. What I am not aware of is why you think that. Overreaction is a valid reason to vote someone and, should he explain himself reasonably, I would not then have a reason to keep voting him. So far he has not done so, therefore I do have a valid reason to keep voting him.

In case anyone is interested in my reads:

Town

ffffffffffffffff (dropping towntells everywhere)
Fe (this is, of course, Eye Urn) (for future reference) (pretty townish, but somewhat vague at times in a way?)

Null

Deras (hard newb rea, not so hard any other read)
Mac (few posts)
Rev (I am flipflopping on him. I do not know why.)
Carey (general behaviour BUT it's kind of his playstyle, I'll have a real read on him when he posts substance)

Null

AT3 (reads post)
Fro (pending explanation)

Scum

goodmorning has both of the others in his middle of the line null category early gake... Which is the best place to have your scumpartner in at this phase

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mac pushed but didn't vote iirc.

Mac also picked up a piece of the case that GM built for me being scum, argued it for a bit and voted me. He was gone for a few days and then unvoted after I rebutted the argument. There really wasn't much appetite for my lynch, which didn't make it worth pursuing maybe.

I could probably get behind a mac wagon, after I actually...you know...get some sleep and think about it with a fresh brain.

Wait wtf... Gm built a scumcase against you after townreafing you and you fossing him for it??????????!?? talk about odd behavior

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Omg my typos i need sleep too

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As goodmorning pointed out early game we have an edge on an IC player... THAT POST WAS AWK AS FUK BTW... It almost pitted her against town in phrasing

Gunna do some datamining and see if i can rattle that bit down

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UNVOTE: oh my alot happened while i was asleep lemme catch up

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Fyi i had an errie feeling that gif/goodmorning were setting up for a push on me tomorrow... Which would be the appropriate move if they were both scum. As i have shown unwillingness to vote anyone besides them with my posts... Does that mean mac is town or am i paranoid?

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I am seriously considering asking for claims in the order of goodmorning>mac>gif>VE>i dont care who goes after that... Does anyone else think this could be appropriate/benificial?

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Feel free to edit the order if you mostly agree

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Id have to say that with no claims my vote is best placed on goodmorning for now.... Im gunna look up some completed scumflips.

Pedit the problem with a d3 lylo massclaim is that mafia will almost ceartainly claim pr--- which could mix things up in the right sequence of actual prs. Today a massclaim would almost force mafia to claim VT--- also mafia wont be prepared as to who is claiming what . D3 generally seems apropriate.... But lets say mac is town and isnt lynched - he would be an obvious VTfor not claiming at l-1 and if mafia rolecopped outside of him that leaves mafia with an excelent chance of hitting a PRanyways.


If you genuinely think i am merely rolefishing i have to pause a moment and scofff - i am much more efficient at role-fishing than blatently asking if it would be acceptable to massclaim

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And before I get questions:

Rolefishing is not ever proTown. EVER. The only motivation one can have to rolefish is that they are Scum.

actually this is false and i am disapointed in you for breaking your IC promise relating to not lying about mechanics. It always entirely depends on the situation and if you are a PRyourself - actually - any case where you can pecieve a pr as town without letting scum know that you percieve that PRis benificial to town - also --- having that read and outting it to the public is not a scumtell because scum has no incentive to share that information when they can just night kill it --- i could list more scenarios where it is a total non-tell because of mechanic related reasons but suffice to say your broad stroke statement is bullshit

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You know the best way to rolefish as scum? Put someone at L-1 --- i didnt see you fossing GIF for doing that?

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Here is a perfect meta reference that i am sorting through

Here both mac and goodmorning are scum http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=800

Short game. Good source to analyze tone and compare

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Interesting to note goodmorning townread his partber mac stating "newbtown" early game when a lil pressure was on him ... Did GM do that to anyone here? Not that it means anything just curious regarding the bigger picture

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Btw -I keep debating in my head if macs response to l-1 was a towny post or not. As scum it would resemble a lazy stalling technique and easy towntell to make... One that i have used several times.... But i have said similar things as town... Its all in the tone.

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Im agreeing with you there. Not seeing much difference from GM tho

VOTE: GM

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ton of buddying from GM in that game. Which reminds me of the cross-accusations of buddying between GM and Mac in this game.

Where did that happen. Useful info

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I need to look into GIF more as well but im pretty solid on this vote being right

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Deras: I've already given out three townreads, they haven't changed and you should know where you and carey stand.

The people I haven't given reads on:

Yeah sorry, I meant on those you hadn't.

The good news is that Scum can't NK me or I'll flip, so if there's a Doc it throws the choice "IC or Towniest, who will Scum kill" right out the window.

I don't like this reasoning, I feel like you're setting up an excuse because you KNOW you won't be NK no matter what.

129: Comes after several people have given reads, and doesn't really cover much new ground (if any). In one sentence accuses me of going after easy targets while staying off of the... easy... targets? SEEMS LEGIT.
Seriously, ask yourself: Who are the easiest targets in this game? Carey and Deras, right? Who's been going after them again? JUST SAYING. JUST. SAYING.
132: Who goes easy on someone acting scummy? SCUM

Unless I'm misinterpreting this, the second point seems to contradict the first, on 132 you're arguing against ff for going easy on me because of perceived scummy behaviour, but in the first one you said going after Carey and me was the easy (and thus scummy) thing to do?

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I agree with derus 100% there

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GM:

1) I think you've way overblown the Fropome thing, looking for something to grab onto and continuing to do so for no good reason.
2) The fact that you explicitly asked me only for my read of you still weighs heavily on my mind as something that you would have done as scum in that situation and not as town.
3) The part of 170 that Deras pointed out in 216 and your reaction to that in 316. You were caught and tried to twist it, and it only got in deeper.
4) Continually not even reading and understanding what's posted, like when you asked what I find scummy about posts that I made (800 and 806). You clearly didn't even read them, you just assumed that I was being unspecific and wanted more details.

how teh fuk did this wagon die

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Lets re-ignite it.

Unless VE is scum this is a 2/3 lynch.

Im 100% sure on ffer and barcode as town

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No i havnt... I didnt see the value in reading cases from someone im assuming is scum. Cases are the easiest way to leave an impression intentionally

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Ill read it anyways

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Wait was that supposed to be a case against you? I think i misunderstood or u linked the wrong post... He seems to townread you there?

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She*

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It actually looks pretty similar to his case in 109 of the thread i linked. Doesnt change my mind a bit

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Vote with me ffer u wont regret it

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Ya 109 was more planned out and such but similar in the fact that it was based on obviously bad reasons... So my thought was that he is perfectly capable of making a bad push as mafia

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*she

Lol

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Hi Brakes.

R u town this game?

Dont call me that. I retired that account and quit EM due to it origionating as an account intended to prove i would be fit for a leadership role, and having no desire to continue on as a casual user, and having entirely incompetent people modded before me time after time for 5 months despite being triple nominated in my last attempt... And due to the aristocracy being revealed as nothing more than a "friends of shacky and riot" club as of late.. And having them forcefully block me out of a position that most people recognise i deserved more than half of the current team... And them listening to nasty rumors from my ex and using it as a reason not to like me...........


So much grrrrr

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Also forum mafia is so much more natural for me anyways... Tbh i suck at finding scum in ten minutes

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What is amished tell¿

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Ah ya.... I was legit hoping fir scum tho... Wasnt sure i wanted to replace in a 60 page game as town... Took a quick read of first posts to gauge likeliness of a scum role pm and decided to do it

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So did you need anything specific from me?

For u to read up and sheep ofc :p

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Viscera... If you are town this should be a no braininer... If you are scum you should busvote 100%

Pedit: yes. Is there a reason i shouldnt?

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I think if he flips town my fos will be GIF/VE team... Dont hold me to that tho... Also a townflip isnt likely... Its really rare that i am this confident in a vote

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Ya hes been spouting things of similar useless nature as if they were significant all game

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Im trying to figure out why you seem to agree yet you havnt changed your vote yet

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Time to role-fish claim GM

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Just in case someone flies in and hammers and mod is here to end twilight immediately... I will explain an earlier post regarding if ME flips town (which i highly doubt.

Out of my townreads VE is the most tenative... He showed willingness to vote anyone but ffer (solid town imo) me, and GIF (one of the three i was considering today)

That pretty much paints him as a scumteam with gif if ME flips town fmpov....

In case tomorrow is lylo and i die, i would suggest considering this, but also would suggest an alternative voting method.

If you feel the need to express a vote on lylo... Be wary of an actual vote as both scum may be lurking to hammer a misvote. I dont think it is against the rules toue something like the unvote tag with a name in between to fake-vote until a concencus is reached... And i think it would be wise to do so

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Toue = to use

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You already claimed pr by implying you had something to claim. No reason not to unless you are afraid you have a cc... Also thats rlly convenient how you highlighted the first part of my rolefishing comment and ignored the game-relevant one about mac on L-1.

Also the part you quoted was talking about subtle role-fishing which is the only smart way to do it as town or scum... You cant get the solid reads i mentioned without finding a way to do that... Also i jave PR reads already and you wernt one of them

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I wasnt talking to mac i was talking to you and you know that. you have a habit of skirting around things and acting like someone is unjustly attacking you. there is no town motivation not to claim the pr role that you obviously intend to claim (as i had predicted) as a final rolefish before you die.

Theoretically, if you were town and have a pr that has information that might be useful you are squandering the chance to out it before mafia Instahammers you into an easy 3-way lylo after they are instahammered tomorrow for hammering a pr... If you were the solo pr you would be risking a final day with no clears and mafia potentially claiming a second pr... If there are 2 it doesnt matter a damn if you out your role with said ibformation because you can be protected.... There is no town motivation for not claiming after an extended period of time unless you are inexperienced or chicken-shit... Of which you are neither.

The only motivation i can see for you not claiming the pr that you are planning on claiming is that you are scum hoping the wagon will die without you making a commital claim....

If i hadnt voted you yet i would hammer you after a final warning... I sure hope someone comes along with the balls and the sense to at least declare intent --- or be ballsy enough to just hammer before you can fish or ride unccd because the pr you claimed isnt in the game

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Tl;dr

There is no way im changing my mind no matter what you claim and i hope everyone else feels the same way

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P.s. If there is a pr that hasnt voted GM yet its time to hammmer him

P.p.s. Im pretty sure i just carried the game or ruined it. I see no reason to back down as he hasnt adressed any of the actual reasons that were stated for voting him and has instead chose to skirt around it with the subplot of debatable terminology

P.p.p.s. How do you fish GM? personally i leave my hook in the water with some bait and wait for a bite... Apparently you think fishing involves asking a fish if it is a fish

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Interesting.

I thouht you said earlier this is your word that is strictly used for taking notes with your ISO using ctrl f and isnt used to show any form of pointing a finger but rather that you find it genuinely interesting and need to look at it later? i believe this was a defensive reaction to someone accusing you of making a subtle push that couldnt easily be traced to you by using the word interesting?

How does a single. Post with nothing but the word interesting help you take notes?

note to self: 175 is interesting

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Final thoughts on this game:
The Scum are Ineffective and Z. Z is continuing to drip scumtells. Ineffective has Townread him not for anything Town that he's done, but because ff has a Townread on him. This is an easy way around addressing all the reasons why your scumpartner is Scum. Logic tells are for Dethys, this is not one. Besides that, it's not even that logical - Townies are not infallible.

this seems like a bad way to get out of a lynch considering that i lead the wagon and z intends to hammer - then again some people fall for the. "i fos you even i my dying breath" bit - it is an indirect form of ate that almost pulls at me and compels me to pity you

I like how you accused town of making a terrible showing --- and yet if you are town have entirely awful reads

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But shit... MAC's. "tomorrow will be lylo" commment really makes a man wonder.

could be an intentionally inserted "i dont have information as to my partners scum status"

could be a towny " i dont view him as scum therefore i have never considered the possibility that tomorrow may not be lylo"

could be a slip from a scum knowing town is being lynched....

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I kinda don't want to believe

goodmorning

but her claim (#1708) was genuine. She tends to get little fired up like that time to time. Something I don't like but seems consistent enough for me to trust that post. But on the other hand then she makes posts like this (#1719). Not going to lynch for now but could hammer her later.

I'am going to wait till tomorrow to hear more about Mac if he keeps his promise (#1718). In the mean time I will dig ISO on couple of other players that I have been slightly ignoring lately just to double check that my reads are right.

problem i have with. GM being "fired up" is that i have never seen a genuine looking "fired up" post... The. Placement of caps seems to be on points she is trying to make and not on emotionally indicative areas... any attempts at showing anger have beeen seemingly head based and i see no gut responses "town has made a pitiful showing" type of remarks are emotionally removed in apprearance. I DO NOT SEE GOODMORNING BEING FIRed up but rather trying to say the right things to avert a lynch

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OK Mac..... I SaW IT QUOTED ON THE OTHER PaGE aND SaW GMs comment and thought it had merit - my bad - another pitiful attempt at GM spreading seeds of doubt

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How does a single. Post with nothing but the word interesting help you take notes?

Reminds me to look back after a flip.
For your other concerns, I refer you to fferyllt, who has answered them exactly as I would have, except perhaps more politely.
I would add that as you claim to have ISO'd me, Town!you should have realized that those have indeed been my reads since long before the wagon. Yet another scumtell.

Not going to lynch for now but could hammer her later.

Scummy.

i never claimed that you changed your fosses

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In fact "even in my dying breath" would explicitly indicate that the fosses were there before - where do you come up with this stuff? This is the kinda shit that made me confident in you flipping scum

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and yes ffers post has mmerit- asuming you were town you wouldnt change your fosses most likely --- that doesnt mean you are town---- it caused me paused and made me pity you --- but your phrasing did change from " i fos so and so to". "these two people are scum together" which is a big difference in tone and substanciance

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Guys really quick --- has gm made a push that you find to be with good reason? Or cast doubt on anything that was significantly scummy? Or has every post of his pointing fingers at other payers been based on actions that have no actual merit?

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Sure- opinion pays a big part--- but when you see someone pushing. On ridiculous things in your opinion, and others agree, it would seem that majority opinion says that your pushes are bad, and thus opinion is not in your favor --- hence the question to confirm that ffer and I arnt the only ones who noticed your pushes are consistantly bad

also dont call me a moron - thats my move---moron

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Inb4 he says "i didnt call you a moron i merely siad your actions are moronic...

Like a moron

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Ke a gut player at all actually - you seem like you build cases on a regular basis and point fingers at popular fallacies like amished tell

Those arent gut level play indicaters... Those are signs of bad logic.

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You dont seem like*

Keyboard was hibernating

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also you just reference another action based tell "backing down" is niether a scumtell or a towntell its something that people do--- referencing these actions or any actions without tying it to a motive or taking the bigger picture into consideration. a town player will generally naturally do that because they are looking for scum - a scum player often misses this because they are looking to point fingers

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That post was horribly fragmented excuse my posting... I think you know what i meant by this tho --- actions are not tells on their own. Never have been never will be... Scum often forgets to paint the scenery of motive when pointing fingers because they arent actually looking for scum

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I was using an anectdote to assert. That you arent exibiting gut-level play --- using the example you mentioned... The point of your post indeed WAS to paint yourself as a gut level player to excuse your bad pushes --- when in fact they were not gut pushes they were reason based pushes --- horribly bad reasoned pushes --- such as your amished tell push on me.

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also when someone has a legitimate complaint about your play and also happens to say something else that is debatable - i see you choosing to debate semantics over responding to the actual point very often. Is that gut level play? Or avoiding the issues and diverting it to intellectual debate?

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LOL

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I dont build cases for the most part IMO every player here will recall aat least one instance of you doing all of the above on thier own without my help because you have done it so often. Why waste my breath proving to the person that im trying to lynch that my statements are valid.

Ur so cute.

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awwwww

My feelings are hurt n ow that wasnt very nice


can you really blame me for not trying to appeal to the person i think is scum? I never understood why a towny would do that

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Maybe hes just mad that i wont feed him examples so he can make a point by point excuse for them?

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She*

Lol how many times have i done that

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If scum claims a pr they have a 50% chance of "lucking out" its not like its a slim possibility

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By not being willing to lynch a pr claim you are basically saying you arnt willing to lynch scum because there is 0 reason why mafia wouldnt claim pr under threat of a lynch

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ikeep in mind mac - as evidenced in vote intents all around - this lynch can easily be switched to you--- i dont want to do that. But if this fails i will revert back to voting you most likely

Pedit: i already explained the sense in it.. SCUM WILL CLAIM PR ON THE WAY OUT ALWAYS in this situation

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as a matter of fact mac everyone has expressed willingness to vote you aside GM

Im starting to wonder if this is a case of hardbuddying

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Its not practical, it is gutless... If you are lynching scum they have no reason not to claim PR - THUS if you are not willing to lynch a claimed pr YOU WILL NOT LYNCH SCUM

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Mac do you have a reason not to vote GM aside him claiming pr?

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alsoi might do well to note that there are a garunteed 2 scum members and there are 1 or two prs - therefore math-like logic makes his pr claim less likely to be truthfull,,, more than 50% he isnt pr

This happens to be a greater chance than the amount of luck it takes for him to claim a PRthat isnt in the setup which is 50%

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If you townread him that is a more respectable reason not to vote him - just dont blame it on his PR status that is a copout

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Ya derus was on that GM wagon that failed --- ffer can you crt+f. GMs iso on this thread for "keep" and compare it in proportion to the thread we were looking at earlier? I cant ctrlF on a phone

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Mac. Saying the word "keep" isnt a crumb that is commital as it would be overlooked had he not mentioned it - try again

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Sorry that comment did look a little agro- if you havnt noticed its in my nature to be agressive, and i was getting a little tired of you giving us bad reasons not to lynch him instead of explaining why you thought he was town

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What about his posts on other thread - that is something more scientific to compare it to than someone elses posting

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*her

I must be reading masculine qualities into GM somehow - maybe its the avatar idk

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15/263 = 0.05703
4/36= 0.11111

Git nailed

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So not only did he not use the word keep more than he usually does - he used it more often in the other thread by about twice as much... Which makes up for the margin of error in a smaller games sample size by far

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Someone should hammer this ... I have zero doubt as of now. His crumb was proved to be a fabrication which dispells any doubts i had before

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If you want we can compare it to a game he played as town too--- in case you are wondering if the word "keep" is something he uses more often as scum

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They would be suspect to me had it not been doubled up in the other game compared to a game where he was supposedly inseting it - but we can run every game if you want - i suspect the results would show that he undoubtably did not crumb at all and used it as a convenient thing to say

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Get to the data mining my minion


*evil grin*

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You haven't asked for reasons why I thought gm was town, regardless i still don't think we should be lynching a possible PR.

The more you post, the more i wonder if you are scum. some seriously poor posts coming from you if you are town.

you shouldnt have to be asked to explain why someone is town when you are defending them from a lynch--- should be second nature if your intentions are geniune--- using the PR reason is a cop-out plain and simple--- I REPEAT, IF YOU ARE UNWILLING TO HAMMER A PR CLAIM YOU ARE UNWILLING TO HAMMER SCUM AS SCUM WILL ALWAYS CLAIM PR WHILE BEING LYNCHED IN HOPES OF THE 50% CHANCE HE IS UNCCD OR A CHANCE TO OUT A PR AS HE IS LYNCHED

if i was scum and you were town i wouldnt have unvoted and switched to goodmorning when you were obviously going to be hammererrrrddddd

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In summary anyone that thinks there is a chance i could be scum when i started my own wagon ON THE IC of all people while you were at a near confirmed lynch and there were votes on other people i could wagon and come up with a reason for justifying.... YOU ARE DELUDED

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You wernt the only one who would have hammered him judging by previous posts... How many times have you declared intent to hammer only to have someone else fly in and yolo hammer? Lol

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In fact goodmorning is the only person who hasnt had mac in his scummy pile.

Pedit: id rather go after the harder lynch today--- and most any scum faced with intent to hammer will claim pr--- so a pr claim is utterly irrelevant to me --- especially one that is in the process of being proven false due to a crumb fabrication

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also if that is truly conventional wisdom im gunna puke--- i could see stalling a questionable lynch due to a pr claim---- i cannot sympathize with stalling a lynch on a total scumbucket because of a pr claim

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also optimal play depends on setup structure and circumstance... Here we have an easy setup to claim PR in.

Pedit: without needing a calculater i can already tell that is roughly the same proportion as this game

Pedit 2: im proud of you keep up the good work--- a woman with a will of stell gotta respect that

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Obviously im going for "best replacement" or "most horrendously shameful performance" this game

Everything that has happened since i made up my mind on GM has done nothing but confirm he is scum to me tho

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i went on a limb asking for the frequency to be researrched as i was fully aware he could have actually crumbed intentionally as scum but my gut said he just made it up during the wagon and it seems number have proven me right...

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Ya the buddying thing with mac can easily be a circumstancial coincidence. --- but the buddy acusations between them could also be intentional distancing...


are you feeling more at ease with encouraging someone to hammer yet?

Im at the point where im 98% sure and the other 2% can only be accounted for by the shame i will experience if i am wrong... But with that horrible crumb attempt im not even sure i will be shamed if he actually is JK bc i used a fully logical line of aproach

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I hope to encourage as much rarities as is possible with my noobish status in the hierchy of mafiascum!

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are you going to co-opt my call for a hammer or what - this is a pretty solid "case"

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Goodmorning did you entirely ignore the better sample size from a game you were town in?

as far as 50% for pr claim to be unccd as scum--- each pr is in half of the available combinations... I already explained the other half of that math in the post you quoted, and as an ICyou should have been aware of the part that i didnt fully explain on your own

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Your rage capslocks are an improvement but seeing as how it only came after a legitimate case debunking your so called crumb was made---- now would be the time to counter it with other data to skew the arguement in your favor so the rage capslocks are a bit too late to appeal to my emotions

Pedit: with 1 or 2 prs and 2 scum that should have no reason not to claim pr if being lynched (unless for some godlike wifom) there is a higher overall chance of a pr claim based on a BW being fake

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any arguement against the data that does not include other data is null and void as you proudly declared that you intentionally inserted "keep" and if you intentionally insert a word it doubles over natural occurances and should show some improvement in frequency no matter what the circumstance is

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Wow mac- you are proving yourself to be scumbuddies with GM or entirely retarded- GJ - wp

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and for the record IT WASNT A THREAT IT WAS A FUCKING FACT

YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN LYNCHED 100% AND IT CAN STILL HAPPEN

gm is the only person that doesnt fos you and you are the only person besides GM to fos me

BUDDY HARDER LOL

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Well ffer mAnAges to feel better About you somehow now - but im not sure why

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Hey guys i unvoted the easy lynch and went after the scumfuck that i wasnt sure would be lynched had i died... Im obvious scum for saying i could always revert back to the easier lynch that seems to be aligned with the person i want to lynch instead I GUESS THAT MAKES ME SCUM LOL

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Mac if you are town and genuinely think im scum after making a near bulletproof series of reasons for a GM lynch i genuinely think you are retarded. It wasnt a defense to your case- i dont feel like i need to defend such a horribly constructed case....

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Lolololololol

This couldnt be anymore obvious at this point - the two of you are spamming worthless shit and hard buddying each other. To cover up the fact that his crumb was entirely fabricated... and mac, despite not wanting GM to be lynched cant point to anything about GM being town... all he has given us is a silly excuse that since he claimed pr he wont vote him

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hey, you know, sometimes prs claim prs too?

what do you make of the "arrested" breadcrumb since I'm pretty sure some of your case is revolved around "keep" or whatever.

and you didn't answer the questions in #1826

you must have misunderstood GMs post - he never said he breadcrumbed with arrested - he claimed that he was considering it and decided it would be too obvious---- an excuse to use such a comonly used word as a supposed breadcrumb when he never actually even crumbed with it before he claimed pr and merely used. It as something to make him look town WHICH ME AND FFER UNDENIABLY DISPROVED

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I Am AlternAting between rAge And lAughing my Ass off right now - im gunnA tAke A breAkk before i go on A full on bipolAr swing

Fml thAt CAps A thing is hAppening AgAin.... Im gunnA wAit pAtiently for gif or Z to fly in And hAmmer

if for some reAson this doesnt hAppen--- yAll CAn lynCh me--- if you promise you will lynCh goodmorning And mAC in sequenCe i will eVen self hAmmer

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Also Ineffective all the self-back-patting is getting annoying. And it's bordering on scummy. If you're town, please stop.

@feryl
Here's the way I look at it. IF they're scumbuddies, then fake-claiming is the perfect excuse for your scumbuddy to hard-defend you. It's not just that he's going all-in trying to save GM - it's that it's convenient that GM claims a PR that Mac instantly believes. I'd expect a bit of healthy skepticism from a townie you know? But he's going on and on about "exploring all options" and he's conveniently not considering the notion that GM is fake-claiming?

I also included in the same most as patting myself on the back that i could possibly be the reason for a loss if i was wrong... And said several times that i would hang my head in shame likely if i was wrong.... Im not an ego ridden dude l... I take pride in often bei g responsible for a given outcome and that being based on my proactive nature and agressive behavior...

I dont see this as uncalled for as i am also willing to put myself down when i fuvk a game up as i take full responsibility for my decisions and rarely back down from that responsibility

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Back to crushing cans see u in a few

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Im bavk. Posting in between crushing cans... Im solid on my vote

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And to VE... I didnt mean to demean your role nor anyone elses... But if GM is lynch it is ultimately my responsibility as game was stalling when i arrived and i rushed in a flurry of reading and posting my thoughts as i went then became the catalyst to two people being put on L-1. There is no denying that gm was my pet project and that i wrangled the votes to get him in this position for better or worse

Pedit: ive been meaning to look into gif closer... From what ive seen so far there isnt much to go off of

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Guys did GM soft anything the first time he was at L-1?

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The d1 wagon on him deconstructing makes no sense to me and neither does his current pr claim if he didnt soft/crumb the moment he was L-1 yesterday

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Scum or town you cant deny that there is hardbuddying between you and mac.... And "yor an idiot" isnt a good way to rebut obvious statements

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Mac falls under the catagory of scumbucket if i were to assume JK claim is legit. As does gif if my POE was accurate.

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Scum or town you cant deny that there is hardbuddying between you and mac.... And "yor an idiot" isnt a good way to rebut obvious statements

Other than just now where I said "good job mac", there hasn't been any buddying from me. And he's defending, which I would argue is different from buddying.

no. When you are the only two fossing me while im deathtunneling you and mac is the only one assuming you are town and vice versa... There is CLEAR buddying

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Ffer has good vibes on mac but this was a recent development so that logic still stands

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Unless they are a cop or a rolecop and dont have a report amiright?

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Ya it seems like rolblocker would be preferable to jailkeeper in a newbie setup

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I have decided to be nice for the duration of this game but my vote still stands. GM can we make peace with the fact that our terminology se t has different nuances and stick to more relevant discussion? My point is that under the stress of a gif lynch you are uneasy while everyone else is ok with it and vice versa. You also both foss me, seemingly moreso while i am voting the other person. This serve as the end result of you protecting each other from a lynch and smiting the torchbearer of it. Call it whatever you want

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Umm i typod gif in plqce of mac but ya

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Has gif even been here since this. Wagon started? Plz come back and be JK and hammer

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K this wagon is dead im gunna cry now brb :p

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If GM isnt getting lynched im gunna stall and weigh the options between mac and GIF

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Actually i didnt think any of those quote were contrived they seem like they had natural placement....

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I dont know much about yesterday... But some self-meta... I push on my partners d1 alot and end up finding a legitimate reason to unvote... Its called softbussing and it is a very effective tactic to enable you to buddy your partber for the rest of the game without suspicion

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The problem im having with not lynching GM is that i had POE'd down to a pool of gif/mac/GM wheb mac left gif as a dyibg fos and there was some interaction about opportunism it made me feel like gif and mac couldnt be a team---leaving me with GM as scum... This combined with the rest of it made me unwilling to vote anyone else... And im still there. If hes not the lynch i have to analyze both of the others in more depth...

Also... If... God forbid... GM is somehow town... Erm... Who is scum between the others and where did my POE go wrong. This is alot of shock to handle after being more confident than i have ever been in a mafia game since like a long time ago when i cared about having an EM trophy and decided never to second guess myself because of fossing right the first time uber games in a row and changing my mind

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lol

I think i like you

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Do you understand why my POE process makes me want to stick to my guns tho?

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Ur scum winrate scares me :0

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I envy your senses of certainty.

I envy people that are likable no matter if they know whats up or not <3

Guys you should all teach me how to be likable

cus likeeeee

Theoretically if mac/ME were town--- i could understand. Not liking me...

Im not very concious of how peope percieve me most of the time and.....

What if macs fossing me has nothing to do with anything but me being a prick?

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also--- ffer.... Im reading up on a completed scumgame of yours because i am trying not to be closed-minded considering the circumstances of this dying wagon... Trying to pick up on some nuances because your play is generally consistant with my ideal of a town player and what it looks like--- a force like that is scurryyyy --- you speak of these people that can meta you but like... I dont get it yet--- there must be something im missing.......

also --- im looking into everyone. Im probably going to put most of my effort between games into this one.

also--- im in the process of adapting to forums--- i come from a fast paced environment where extreme reaction tests, and doing things like voting people
that you know are town so that they towntell better-- and pushing with all your effort on one person when you feel like you nailed it... and trolling for the sake of reactions are actually fairly common among high level players,...

I think my pace needs some tinkering and so--- if my tone changes drasticly in the near future please keep that in mind. I am trying to be self aware...

Self-awareness has always been scummy to me so just throwing that out there...

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I jujst thought of another possible scum-motive for mace averting GM's lynch

Lets say hypotheticly GM is JK (still not convinced--strictly hypothetical)

The best move with a towny tunelling her with the support of others would actually be to avert her lynch to a a different towny and wifom kill either me or one of the other townies on the wagon- if the flip was VT this would likely result in an instant lylo win as people would be eager to fos the JK who didnt die

Tho this could also apply to VE dropping the wagon in favor of mac if mac was town--- but that would go back to the possible VE/Gif team i was considering. If GM was JK

I feel like the game would be easier for me with a GM lynch regardless if he is JK or not for the simple fact that if we lynch a towny that isnt GM and GM is JK i will have a hard time not voting her after mafia wifom kills(which i would totally do as scum)

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Sorry that's alot of consecutive posts, my bad.

No, your bad was continuing to say that my actions could have a scum motivation. i still dont see your logic... And if i was playing emotionally right now id vote you for tryibg to paint that picture... Im just not sure if its scummy

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I partially retract that statement. They *could* have a scum motivation from an objective perspective. I honestly cant see why you think it is likely tho

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Gif is screaming of beetlejuice... also i didnt see a line of logic for the POE... Ffer kinda fed an answer to the questions she asked and GIF took the bait

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On the other hand macs incessant "why do you want to lynch a pr" is grating at me

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The good news is that... If GM is scum, and we nail the other one into a corner as well... It will be hard for his partner to claim a pr. higher chance of a cc, and with no cc the missing pr that actually exists can claim... The one who claims to be doc can be on the one who claims cop and the cop can be on JK and the jk can wifom between being on doc and on a random.... Which would give mafia a hard time of killing a legit pr

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Beetlejuice = silent until your name is pinged

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The good news is that... If GM is scum, and we nail the other one into a corner as well... It will be hard for his partner to claim a pr. higher chance of a cc, and with no cc the missing pr that actually exists can claim... The one who claims to be doc can be on the one who claims cop and the cop can be on JK and the jk can wifom between being on doc and on a random.... Which would give mafia a hard time of killing a legit pr

That plan could be modified depending on who clqimed what under that circumstance... Merely a hypothetical to show that with mafia confirmed as ccing a pr things can be arranged all awesome-like

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It's funny because it almost looks like you're trying to get your scumbuddy to claim a PR.

I dont see how you could read that into my post as i was stating that the next scum to be voted will have a HARDTIMECLAIMINGPR--- if i was scum communicating to my partner that would be me telling them not to claim pr


It was mostly a celibration of the fact that i just realised the next scum we vote wont claim PRmost likely

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Perhaps i should gaurd my words and hold my cards close and care what people might percieve of my rants because the more i type the more you have something to pick at---- however--- i view that as scummy and think everyone else should too.... So i just blurt out everything that comes to mind

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I probably won't be able to finish reading until tomorrow. Till then, you guys can look at my wiki for my finished games and stuff. It contains both town and scum game, so all the meta-lovin' ppl can dig in!

screams town---- or scum confident in replicating its own town-meta

So far, I have fferyllt and VE as strong town. EU looked ok at first, but later posts quickly devolves. AA9 is playing like textbook scum. The only thing that bothers me is that she did that on every games that I played with her. Z7 is leaning town. I don't know how ppl scumread him. Deras/Mac/GM is null (or rather, didn't focus on them quite yet. I like focusing one person at a time, but time doesn't let me do so.)

here is the POE logic i was looking for... Makes sense... Has anything changed since then?

Is there a specific case against AA9 except for overreaction?

looks like a towny question

If it was other person acting like it, I wouldn't even hesitate voting. But it's AA9 we're dealing with, and she does that pretty much every game she plays.   @VE: ok.

using meta seemingly to avert a towny lynch

We have less than a day left. Correct? Ugh hate being short on time. VOTE: AA9 L-1. Normally, I won't ask for claim till someone intent to hammer, but we're running out of time. So claim. If you're a power role, be quick about it. What we don't want is you claiming power role 30 minutes before the deadline.

ummmm WTF GIF---

Also I would really like to know how the hell I'm his strong townread when I'm not

seems like a towny sentiment in RE a seemingly baseless townread

Hi Brakes.   R u town this game?

calling me brakes DIE SCUM... Lel

same for me except switching me with ineffective fmpov.

in context this makes sense but----- why did you put archangel at l-1 with that meta-info available.... This is what has me doubting you --- along with asking for a claim before intent to hammer and stating that you normally wouldnt--- using the time limit as an excuse seems ... Idk - personally i alwayys ask for claims puting someone at L-1 ---- on the other hand the fact that you pointed out that his was unusual for you when you didnt have to kinda looks towny too   STill hung up on the AA vote tho---

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@Ineffective
Just do whatever feels natural - it helps me gauge your mindset.

So is there anything particularly off-putting about GiF's posting besides his apparent opportune returns that makes you suddenly doubt the validity of a Mac lynch Inef? That is, are his posts more lynchable to you than Mac's posts?

@Mac
Your whole case is built around his suspicion of you and the way he presents it. You'll forgive me for mistaking that for "No U". If you want me to look somewhere else, tell me why his suspicion of you has to be scum motivated...or point me toward someone you CAN explain your read of.

do we have a mindlink or something--- i was reading GIFs iso while you were typing that question

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also.... AA( plays alot like pranay... coincidence?gif?thoughts?

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So GMwas out of contention at this point?

I just ughh... GIFSpoe is exactly like mine except gifs POE has me in it and vice versa.... Why didnt gif try to puch on mac or GM?

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I have been for this since i first performed my POE - and wanted GM to claim first so he couldnt claim PR when i voted him later.... I think this is frowned upon d2 tho

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But like... My initial motivation for massclaim as stated--- the time has passed... Your reason seems legitimate enough... But what would be the order of claims?

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Btw you are giving GM ammo for his arguement that we are scumbuddies and that im rolefishing lol

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The thing is if all three of VE/feryl/Inef are town, then a mass-claim basically solves the game doesn't it? Regardless of what scum try to claim, if we're all town we can narrow down the lynches in such a way that scum CAN NOT win right?

Yes... This is true... IFthe POE that me and gif. (and seemingly yourself) seem to share iscorrect

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If GM is somehow legit jailkeeper then. The "one pr" scenario is already dealt with--- as the solo pr has already claimed---- i doubt he is a real pr and that if he is that he is the solo pr bc i have 2 pr reads... One really strong and the other a tenative read

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Well now I'm curious. Who are your PR reads? No harm in saying now is there? Like, with an already claimed PR and us talking about a massclaim and everything, it doesn't seem to matter much.

Outting my PR reads before the claim would seriously detriment part of the reason i am in favor of it---- if i out a pr read on scum they might claim pr if i out a pr read on a pr i will question if they claimed because i outted it

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my nightmare scenario is that you two are the scum and have hardcore buddied me. but, I can't for the life of me see Carey and Eye as scumbuddies. Eye didn't look nearly sophisticated enough at mafia to start bussing his scum partner the way he went after Carey. And Carey's replace-out did not look like scum-flake.

In any case i want to meta VE to see if he is good at replicating the butthurt towny expression that i saw him as town for--- before this happens

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Ya well- you were my stong pr read... Tenative one was GIF

IMVT

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I nominate mac

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Ffer holding he r cards close for now seems appropriate... If she is pr this could result in 4 pr claims and a pair of direct ccs... Is she is VT. That frees gif up to claim PR

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Ya id like to see mac and gif next idc which order

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I only claimed bc i was obvious VT anyways

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I try to avoid putting pressure on PRS also it helps POE sometimes... The more information you have as any alignment the better off you are

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Lets say for instance i dont have a pr read on GM and push on him and he claims PR... in that not so theoretical scenario i dont unvote....

lets say im tempted to push on GIF for reactions, but i have a pr claim on him and even think he might be a cop... I will be more hesitant to push on him...

In my experience with fast paced games this helps A SHIT TON

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But i have a pr READ on him *

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Ya and if mac didnt claim vt id instavote him... Theres another reason

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Okay that makes sense explained that way. It takes a pretty fucking accurate gauge to be effective, but I can see what you're saying.

You are touching on the reason for my nickname here... The same strats that can be extremely effective can also be very.... Ineffective

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Okay that makes sense explained that way. It takes a pretty fucking accurate gauge to be effective, but I can see what you're saying.

Yeah it does. I'm not sure my gauge will ever get accurate enough to be as effective in this environment, though I've had a couple of promising sightings here and there.

My modus operandi has always been... Pretend like you know what you are doing until you actually do

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Im gunna go troll my old site and wait for more claims

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Man if you are scum--- im up against a more sophisticated version of myself and that scares the shit out of me

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Ok cool. This is in the bag then

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Considering....

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Goodmorning he explained why he did it in the same post you quoted... You seem to ask alot of useless questions

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I was considering that as well... On the otherhand i have just seen so much geniune looking concern-based posts from her i just cant see it