Micro 152 - BSG Mafia (Galactica Survives?)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nobody is voting.

VOTE: Nero

Talk.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Damnit how'd you know I was scum

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: Ff

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh hey there :3

Vote: Sotty

Wagon FF please

[orcinus_theoriginal]

You're scum

So as per my wincon I have to lynch you

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I think orcinus is town.

Unjustified town reading your accuser

My heart is of steel and I won't be swayed by this.

If you were scum everyone on your wagon so far will be town

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Syrana. Since he tried to cover it up with a pretty bullshit reason. Everyone else at least was pretty open that this was a RVS wagon

That being said I don't believe town ff would give away town reads as easily as that. Last game you were unsure about my alignment all the way until day 2, going scum, then town, then scum.

Vote is now serious

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I hope I'm right about you. And if you get me lynched, which I kinda doubt, I hope that the bandwagon analysis bites scum and not you.

Ok as much as I love people who town read me this is overkill for page 2

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Can I get some scum meta of you, ff?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yeah but I know you're experienced so can you give me a non-newbie game (other site?)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

No. If you need offsite meta to figure me out you might as well build that bandwagon.

This is your towniest post so far.

But you're still scum.

Ill post again when there's more info

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh hey there :3

Vote: Sotty

Wagon FF please

So this is not a random vote.

Why?

Why can't wagons be random?

you're kidding me.

VOTE: Pitoli

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Am I the only one who looks at the wagon on Syryana as being baseless and stupid? It was an RVS vote which Orcinus in particular has over-exaggerated.

VOTE: Orcinus

I'm not bothering with RVS. He's flopping on his scumreads, with votes that 'Are now serious' on an RVS vote to a vote on the person who questioned why wagons can't be random

referring to a wagon from the RANDOM vote stage.

Tryharding scum has been caught.

Nope.

VOTE: Deltabacon

Let's examine why all of the above is "shit".

Firstly, what wagon on Syryana? Two unrelated votes does not a wagon make.

Secondly, I don't see how I've over-exaggerated Syryana's vote. FF asked me a question. I threw out Syryana's name. FF then proceeded to vote Syryana.

I'm confused as to how I was supposed to build a valid scumcase on the bottom of page 1 with everyone but FF only giving 1 short RVS post, and FF asking me who on her wagon I think would be scum. So you need to elaborate on why this is scummy on my part.

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible. Pitoli was not a scum vote, it was a reaction test, especially since I was getting bored of talking to FF. And I suppose there was a little bit of suspicion in Pitoli jumping in and not commenting on the interaction between me and FF at all. Pitoli's vanishing act is not what I was trying to achieve. You've misread Pitoli's post and the entire of the quoted portion in context. FF asked me why my FF wagon wasn't random, since I was calling for people to join it. Wagons can be random--just not this one.

And once again you've failed to prove why any of your reading comp failure makes me scum.

So what we have here in exhibit A is scum capitalizing on aggressive playstyle and trying to label that as suspicious. Devices used here include: Misrep (of Syryana votes), Misrep again (with scumreads), lack of evidence (everywhere), Misrep (Pitoli's post), nothing specifying why I'm scummy (everywhere), and aggressive cluelessness.

But thanks, keep trying. I appreciate the effort.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Like I'm actually confused as to why I need to specify how bad Pitoli's post was. It added nothing to discussion, asked something that has already been established, and ignored the entire conversation beforehand.

But anyways. Hi buldemar.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh wow the derps on me - I thought the wagon on FF was on Syrana, then saw another vote for Syrana in post 29.

ok so what's your new verdict

[orcinus_theoriginal]

vote Syryana

Do you want to like just claim scum

[orcinus_theoriginal]

UNVOTE:

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh and ff refusing to offer offsite meta is townie, not scum. Jsyk.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: Nero

This is also okay

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Well no FF did it last game when she was obvtown and I think it's townie that she's willing to uphold that belief despite whatever flak she might get for it.

Nero: Good policy lynch, or

great

policy lynch?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

(and yes this is based on my 5 minute meta of him)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

What do you think about Deltabacon, and why the townread on ff?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

This was bad though. Delta looks newbish with that analysis in post 38. Town are more likely to switch reads easily in the RVS stage than scum and attacking a fluctuating read at the start of the game seems all kinds of terrible. Would need more data to see if this is truly a scum push. Looks more likely to be a bad push.

No I played with Delta last time he was obvtown and didn't make a mistake like that. So he gets judged on a different standard.

He's null now that he admitted that it was a misread fwiw.

Well no FF did it last game when she was obvtown and I think it's townie that she's willing to uphold that belief despite whatever flak she might get for it.

Nero: Good policy lynch, or

great

policy lynch?

Explain the bolded?

Marking for future reference.

And I think it's fairly clear that I think Nero should be PL'd. Why did you have to ask that?

Sotty, what do you think about fery's alignment? Or is that somehow dependent on fery's response to your question.

Pedit: Are you just going to ignore me, nero?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Orcinus I want to know

why

you think he should be PL'd. First game I've played with him.

I'm going to try out a scumtell.

VOTE: fery

Town-fery would've meta'd Nero.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

Your avatar fits your playstyle perfectly.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

(and yes this is based on my 5 minute meta of him)

Like literally, his posts are so unsubstantial and trolly it takes 5 minutes to read all 100 of his posts.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I've never played with Nero, or else I would've voted him first thing out of the gate.

Hi Nero. Remind me to lecture you postgame.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Lol hey cool look at that.

I would've called for a PL right out of a gate is what I meant.

This fixation on small details doesn't seem like scumhunting. What exactly are you doing right now ff and what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

I would love to put FF at L-1 right now but I'm afraid of an unpredictable idiot named Nero.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Syryana: why don't you?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Am I the only one who looks at the wagon on Syryana as being baseless and stupid? It was an RVS vote which Orcinus in particular has over-exaggerated.

VOTE: Orcinus

I'm not bothering with RVS. He's flopping on his scumreads, with votes that 'Are now serious' on an RVS vote to a vote on the person who questioned why wagons can't be random

referring to a wagon from the RANDOM vote stage.

Tryharding scum has been caught.

Interesting, because I read this opposite of you. I think that the overreaction, which I agree it is, is likely to come from town. I think scum-orc would probably be more deliberate about what to base votes on.

You need to read the thread again.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible.

I find this reasoning a bit silly. RVS isn't mandatory. If you think it is something to be "moved out of" why would you instigate it in the first place?

Big words from someone who avoided RVS.

How do you start a game, tell me please

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Like I'm actually confused as to why I need to specify how bad Pitoli's post was. It added nothing to discussion, asked something that has already been established, and ignored the entire conversation beforehand.

But anyways. Hi buldemar.

Hey =)

I agree that it's bad, but I'm not sure why you find it particularly scummy?

I didn't.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I don't think my track record reading unknown players is nearly as good as all that. We'll see. I do hope to help my team win, no matter how short my stay in the game.

My team is town.

What's Buldemar?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yep.

First off, "an entire game" is misleading. Nero has maybe 50 posts between 3 games. All of them one-liners.

Secondly, from what I've seen of FF last game, I know that she tries very hard as town. And not once in last game did she ever ask for meta--she preferred to get it herself.

Which is why I think that this is out-of-character for town ff. Along with other things.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

No matter how quick and how good FF's reads are, #26 was overkill.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Do you think anything about Syryana specifically writing out "Mafia Goon" as opposed to just saying "scum"? I have some thoughts about it, but I'd like to hear yours first.

Really?

like. Really?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Am I the only one who looks at the wagon on Syryana as being baseless and stupid? It was an RVS vote which Orcinus in particular has over-exaggerated.

VOTE: Orcinus

I'm not bothering with RVS. He's flopping on his scumreads, with votes that 'Are now serious' on an RVS vote to a vote on the person who questioned why wagons can't be random

referring to a wagon from the RANDOM vote stage.

Tryharding scum has been caught.

Interesting, because I read this opposite of you. I think that the overreaction, which I agree it is, is likely to come from town. I think scum-orc would probably be more deliberate about what to base votes on.

You need to read the thread again.

You need to be more specific as I'm not going to read the thread in its entirety again right now.

Oh wow the derps on me - I thought the wagon on FF was on Syrana, then saw another vote for Syrana in post 29.

So said "overreaction" doesn't actually exist.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible.

I find this reasoning a bit silly. RVS isn't mandatory. If you think it is something to be "moved out of" why would you instigate it in the first place?

Big words from someone who avoided RVS.

How do you start a game, tell me please

I didn't avoid RVS, I just wasn't around. However, if I was around I would explicitly have declared it over because it's inherently anti-town and a massive waste of time.

More or less any other way of starting the game is superior to writing a post that contains absolutely nothing that has any potential what-so-ever to be alignment-indicative. I could have written about my favorite colour and it would have been more useful.

Right but then town would never get into the serious stages of the game.

The game only starts when an interaction such as that between me/ff (arising from random votes mind you) causes an alignment-indicative response to arise. Every game starts in RVS, and it ends when something alignment-indicative comes up. My goal is to make that period in between as short as possible.

But this is a pointless discussion.

No matter how quick and how good FF's reads are, #26 was overkill.

If I wound up quick-lynched overnight at your behest without a chance to dump my nascent reads, I wanted my town read on you well cemented in memories.

You're welcome.

If you're actually town, remind me to come back to this post game.

Were you genuinely worried about a quicklynch?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Like I'm actually confused as to why I need to specify how bad Pitoli's post was. It added nothing to discussion, asked something that has already been established, and ignored the entire conversation beforehand.

But anyways. Hi buldemar.

Hey =)

I agree that it's bad, but I'm not sure why you find it particularly scummy?

I didn't.

You didn't find it particularly scummy, yet you voting him for his bad post?

You need to read the thread again.

I use my vote to try and get town out of RVS as fast as possible. Pitoli was not a scum vote, it was a reaction test, especially since I was getting bored of talking to FF. And I suppose there was a little bit of suspicion in Pitoli jumping in and not commenting on the interaction between me and FF at all. Pitoli's vanishing act is not what I was trying to achieve.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yep.

First off, "an entire game" is misleading. Nero has maybe 50 posts between 3 games. All of them one-liners.

Secondly, from what I've seen of FF last game, I know that she tries very hard as town. And not once in last game did she ever ask for meta--she preferred to get it herself.

Which is why I think that this is out-of-character for town ff. Along with other things.

Something can't be "misleading" when it's a guess, it's just incorrect or inaccurate, which is entirely different - especially in this context.

All I'm saying is that I find the assertion that her not having read the meta being indicative of her being scum silly.

Which other things?

Well I mean you can call it silly just as I can find you calling someone out for saying "Mafia Goon" instead of "scum" as important silly.

I think #26 is an overreaction given my behavior in RVS. I mean, if you blanked out everything after #26 and looked purely at the first page of posts, to have a townread so strong is unbelievable. I mean, I don't think it's possible to have so strong a townread so early, especially given how uncertain she was last game with me.

Fery pressing me on the Nero issue rubs me in the wrong way.

And the meta thing.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I was thinking that if I was new to this game and I had just received the role "Mafia Goon" in a PM, I would without thinking about it refer to that role by its exact name as opposed to referring to it as scum. We managed to confirm a VT in a different game because the new player referred to his role as Townie as opposed to VT. In the PM, the role was called Townie. Since the OP post of the game did not contain role PM's we were thinking that it would be highly unlikely to a scum to come up with the specific role name "Townie" as opposed to VT, which is more common terminology.

Right but this doesn't actually hold for this situation since it's kind of different

The way I read it, Syryana went and read Nero's game and, you know, read

hawkleader3 Nero

Mafia Goon

, lynched Day 2.

So I don't think this applies here.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

After the Nightless game and that wagon on KBW?

It crossed my mind.

I feel like there are fundamental differences between a D2 PoE pre-decided quicklynch and this game.

I can deal with keeping FF around a lot but I would just like to make it known that I have her strongly written down as scum right now.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

*deal with keeping FF around for a bit

[orcinus_theoriginal]

She is by far the best town mafia player I know of and it's not even close. She already indirectly confirmed that she correctly pointed out an entire scum team of four people on day 1 based on very few posts in this thread - that should at least mean something so long as you don't think we have some weird conspiracy going on.

Is this referencing some game that I should know about? Because I'm having a tough time figuring what this means.

PEdit: Um. Nekoko wagon was "on scum". Or did you mean neither scum were on the bandwagon?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

After the Nightless game and that wagon on KBW?

It crossed my mind.

I feel like there are fundamental differences between a D2 PoE pre-decided quicklynch and this game.

I can deal with keeping FF around a lot but I would just like to make it known that I have her strongly written down as scum right now.

Will you at some point before this day ends write down what exactly you think is scummy about her? I know some of it already, but you insinuated that there is more.

I feel like I summed it up already but I'll make a summative case tomorrow at the beach. I'm heading off to bed for now.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Np

It's 1am and I just read through ff's only other scum game. This isn't my summarize case but I'm more convinced than ever that FF is scum.

-Ff seems to be more passive and just seems to be less engaged. This is reflected in how FF dealt with Nero.
-Why did she form such a strong read on me from literally 4 one line RVS posts--but not anyone else? Why hasn't she an opinion on Buldemar, who I assume she has offsite experience with? Where is her vote, her other reads? If she's such a strong town player and her 4 vote take it to the grave read on me isn't out of the ordinary, it's strange that she doesn't have a vote down.
-She's been less confrontational, and have expressed very few (if any?) original ideas
-I dislike the syryana vote on page 2. I don't see the pro-town intentions behind it, I don't like how she didn't follow it up
-The KBW thing still confuses me. Why are you referring to it, since you bought it up in reference to a quicklynch? Day 1 of our game was the furthest thing from a quicklynch, ever.
-She's calling out lurker for "needing more content". Don't you need more content from a lot of people (pitoli, etc)? Why singling out lurker, and this insinuates that you don't need more content on anyone else (or at least have enough to work with). I've yet to see an influx of reads from you

And everything previously mentioned

My reading of FF's game really only gave me one thing (well, three, and I'm going to save the other two for later). She's more mellow as scum. And I think I'm seeing that in her posts in this game.

This is just to jot down stuff, ill make a case with specific quotes tomorrow, but this is basically an outline.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Sleep, come to me.

Raise your concerns, if I'm still awake ill address them, if not ill pay special attention tomorrow

I make a lot of brash claims but I have all the evidence in my head somewhere (I think)

Buldemar, fear of mislynching completely aside, do you think fery is lean town or lean scum? I think you're letting that cloud your judgement too much. Yes, we should do risk/reward analysis, but I don't think you're giving the fery case a fair chance in your head.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yeah I don't know what to make of buldemar's interactions with you but it seems like its alignment indicative. Ill figure out which way it's pointing to later

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Who specifically do you want as an alternative lynch because I haven't seen you scum reading anyone

Your reply looks mostly fair to me

Pedit: and these changes specifically = ?

It just looks like you're giving up now

Pedit: ok
Hi bacon

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm a little uncomfortable with the extent of white-knighting that buldermar has done.

I think I've been pretty accurate with what I've said - at least I know I've tried to. What specifically makes you uncomfortable?

That you're doing it at all. The hyperfocus on me and what I'm posting is distracting from what I'm supposed to be doing, but there's very little else going on in the thread to get my teeth into atm.

How about 30 posts by Buldemar who you don't have a read on and who (more importantly) you aren't TRYING to get a read on

Like this is the prime example of the passiveness and lack of original opinions I was talking about

Pedit: nobody hyperfocused you

Pedit: okay
I think for ff, not paying attention is a scum tell

[orcinus_theoriginal]

For the record the second pedit should be at very bottom, formatting error

And hi Buldemar you can stop giving me meta I don't trust it unless I see it myself sorry :S and I don't really have a strong town read on you

Pedit (so many pedits): okay wait pitoli's wagon is shit though.

Pedit: yeah.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I had pitoli down as newb scum/town before the game even started because of how she signed up for the game

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Pedit: and these changes specifically = ?
Fery this was at your 159

[orcinus_theoriginal]

So what objective/relative tells led you to a 4-post town read on me

Like. That just seems so off to me

And the fact that you haven't replied to bunch of my posts

Pedit: why is pitoli town, scapegoat wagon?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Pedit: why is pitoli town, scapegoat wagon?

If this question is directed at me I'm not sure I understand it.

yeah idk either I think I was trying to ask why you thought pitoli was town. All I said was that the wagon on him was shit, so my reasoning was actually that since the people on the pitoli wagon are more likely to be scum, pitoli thus has a lower chance of being scum. Is that remotely similar to what you were thinking?

Also ff's interaction to the pitoli wagon (casual "oh yeah I can dig that") is inconsistent with her scum hunting. And once more, her lack of scum reads is worrying.

She talks about there not being much to "bite her teeth into". But town-FF would create interactions to get info. She seems removed from this game. And I think the lurker call out was an attempt to remedy that...?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Okay but tbqh scum didn't deserve to win that game at all I STILL BELIEVE

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh wait you're talking about the game I meta'd. Okay.

NONETHELESS I STILL BELIEVE

what am I even posting I'm sleepy

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm gonna have to replace out guys. From three to ten pages in less than 24 hours.

No way I can handle this pace.

Peace out and enjoy.

It slows down I swear

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

Pitoli's wagon is shit.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I hope it slows down, because I am staying for the long haul.

I can't decide who's the more aggravating player, you or Nero.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

Pitoli's wagon is shit.

Who do you want to lynch?

Well you sort of

Failing that I want to policy one of Nero and lurker

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Judgement pending

Why did you like pitoli's wagon?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

In the wagon's defense you have some truly terrible questions.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: buldermar

VOTE: buldermar

You're going to have to show me how this sudden change in opinion could possible come from town.

VOTE: ff

I'm so

What?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Whatever. FF is a good lynch.

I'm at a spa everyone waiting for the summarized case can suck it for another 7 hours

[orcinus_theoriginal]

This lack of paranoia is also not FF-esque

[orcinus_theoriginal]

You are an expert on all things FF-esque.

Self vote it'll save some time

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Find another vote first and I'm quite likely to.

Guys guys who wants town cred

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: buldermar

VOTE: Buldermar

Bad vote

Bad vote

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Okay

You've lost your obv scum vibe fwiw but still my strongest

I swear to god ill get to that case today

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Townish

orcinus
pitoli

Unsure:

SafetyDance
Syryana

Unsure leaning scum
Lurker
Deltabacon

Scummy:

buldermar
Nero

Nero could go in the Unsure leaning scum group, but a couple of his posts did ping hard enough to draw my vote earlier so I'm leaving him in that pile. Deltabacon bothers me almost enough to put him in the scummy pile.

The thought crossed my mind that Lurker and Nero could be the same person using two accounts.

Pitoli is null lean town. She hasn't done anything too townie, and her behavior as a whole has been null for me. I have her leanin town because of the terrible wagon

I think Nero is lean scum because town Nero wouldn't quote something he wrote in a scum game

Buldemar...I don't know. I feel like he's town because of his reasoning in catch-up. His vote on you wasn't scummy because I did bring up new points that I hadn't before. It's very possible that that convinced him.

I concur on delta bacon.

Why is lurker lean scum?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Ofc you'd use a great fake power role claim if it would keep you alive - which is exactly what you're attempting to make it do right now.

Will read 309 tomorrow.

Not if I planned to claim to be vanilla.

Jesus.

You're not this dense. You're scum.

To the extent I enjoy this at all, I am enjoying that you've made tomorrow uncomfortable for yourself by bigging up my scumhunting earlier. Good luck taking it back.

Feel free to insult me, but I don't understand how you can possibly think that you can claim something and then at the same time suggest that your claim is somehow indicative of you being town. There is no way for you to prove/disprove that you supposedly planned to claim to be vanilla, so that's utterly irrelevant. Good luck taking what back exactly?

Safe to say that ff wishes you luck in taking back your comments about fery's scumhunting skills

[orcinus_theoriginal]

If ff flips scum, the votes on buldemar need to be looked at

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Townish

orcinus
pitoli

Unsure:

SafetyDance
Syryana

Unsure leaning scum
Lurker
Deltabacon

Scummy:

buldermar
Nero

Nero could go in the Unsure leaning scum group, but a couple of his posts did ping hard enough to draw my vote earlier so I'm leaving him in that pile. Deltabacon bothers me almost enough to put him in the scummy pile.

The thought crossed my mind that Lurker and Nero could be the same person using two accounts.

Pitoli is null lean town. She hasn't done anything too townie, and her behavior as a whole has been null for me. I have her leanin town because of the terrible wagon

I think Nero is lean scum because town Nero wouldn't quote something he wrote in a scum game

Buldemar...I don't know. I feel like he's town because of his reasoning in catch-up. His vote on you wasn't scummy because I did bring up new points that I hadn't before. It's very possible that that convinced him.

I concur on delta bacon.

Why is lurker lean scum?

that makes no sense whatsoever. surely i'd be more careful over what i quote as scum? and not town?

back to the drawing room for orcinus_theoriginal

that would work for normal players

You don't exactly try to look town as scum

[orcinus_theoriginal]

If ff flips scum, the votes on buldemar need to be looked at

Which of the two latest votes do you think looks worst?

Equally bad, but I think syryana because of that awk vote on p2

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Ugh

UNVOTE:

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Neither of us are scum

[orcinus_theoriginal]

*Neither of the three of us is scum

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Okay

I want to keep fery around for a bit longer because I feel like I can read her better given maybe one more day's data

I feel like we shouldn't lynch fery unless we're convinced beyond doubt

This isn't because I have unrealistic expectations of fery. But with players like Nero and lurker in the game, it's going to be very hard for us to win this game if we mislynch active players

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm very apprehensive of how quickly we got to L-1 on ffery. The last few pages have been weird honestly and hard for me to read a la ffery's and buldermar's new cases. I like that buldermar at least unvoted whilst not backing down from his position, that makes him seem more town to me than anything else he's done.

Lurker and Nero just seem opportunistic to me, I'd be willing to lynch either of them until they become more open with their reads/reactions to the last couple of pages.

@Sryrana - what made you change your vote so quickly?

@Ffery - I feel like town should fight harder against their own mislynch since you're at least confirmed to yourself, no matter how great your doubts are on another town-looking mislynch. Do you think your lynch would provide the town with the most information?

Never watched BSG so I really don't get the references/significance of claiming Kara, I think that particular point is moot.

I think in general you are right about fighting mislynch. If I am all but certain to be mislynched sooner or later, then sooner may be better, especially if there's something worthwhile to be learned from the bandwagon.

LOL you pretty much confirmed yourself as scum in this post. If you were town and actually considered me scum you'd think that succesfully getting me lynched would close to confirm you as being town. However, if you're scum who pretends to be thinking that I'm scum but actually knows that I'm not you'd make

exactly

this kind of slip, knowing that

even if

you get me lynched, you'll be up next once I flip.

Please attempt to explain yourself out of this one.

VOTE: ff

Sure, but (from hypothetical town fery's viewpoint) you aren't getting lynched unless fery goes first because there isn't enough support for your lynch

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Personally I think my own flavor is bullshit so I won't call fery out on it

I don't know what I think of fery's role right now. I'll figure it out later.

But my thought still stands that with shitty trolls like Nero and lurker, we should put a vote there today given fery's protown behavior in the last few pages

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: Nero

Can the three of us truce for the remainder of the day

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I mean, as much as I would hate to be driving myself out of a correct lynch right now, it would fucking suck if the three of us were town and we lost to like lurker/deltabacon

Buldemar, thoughts?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm very apprehensive of how quickly we got to L-1 on ffery. The last few pages have been weird honestly and hard for me to read a la ffery's and buldermar's new cases. I like that buldermar at least unvoted whilst not backing down from his position, that makes him seem more town to me than anything else he's done.

Lurker and Nero just seem opportunistic to me, I'd be willing to lynch either of them until they become more open with their reads/reactions to the last couple of pages.

@Sryrana - what made you change your vote so quickly?

@Ffery - I feel like town should fight harder against their own mislynch since you're at least confirmed to yourself, no matter how great your doubts are on another town-looking mislynch. Do you think your lynch would provide the town with the most information?

Never watched BSG so I really don't get the references/significance of claiming Kara, I think that particular point is moot.

I think in general you are right about fighting mislynch. If I am all but certain to be mislynched sooner or later, then sooner may be better, especially if there's something worthwhile to be learned from the bandwagon.

LOL you pretty much confirmed yourself as scum in this post. If you were town and actually considered me scum you'd think that succesfully getting me lynched would close to confirm you as being town. However, if you're scum who pretends to be thinking that I'm scum but actually knows that I'm not you'd make

exactly

this kind of slip, knowing that

even if

you get me lynched, you'll be up next once I flip.

Please attempt to explain yourself out of this one.

VOTE: ff

Sure, but (from hypothetical town fery's viewpoint) you aren't getting lynched unless fery goes first because there isn't enough support for your lynch

You think that she's arguing that she'll be lynched sooner or later because she rules out any scenario in which I am lynched before her? I don't think I can buy that.

I'm assuming that fery's "certain to be lynched" mentality, which she has expressed numerous times, is supported by meta.

Pedit: I'm so confused.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: Nero

Can the three of us truce for the remainder of the day

What in particular made you change your opinion of ff? It feels like you're seing something that I don't because to me she looks more scummy than before especially because of all the self-meta'ing stuff that's supposed to indicate her being town.

Paranoia and the realization that we can't win this game if we don't lynch lurkers

Basically we switched positions

I didn't realize before today just how bad the players aside from the three of us are. If we keep fery around for another day or two, we can get a better and more accurate read. The same cannot be said for the lurkers.

Even if fery is scum, we know literally squat about her partners because nobody is giving enough information to analyze. I'm thinking that we'll learn more about people's alignments if fery were scum from fery than from the people themselves.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I mean, as much as I would hate to be driving myself out of a correct lynch right now, it would fucking suck if the three of us were town and we lost to like lurker/deltabacon

Buldemar, thoughts?

Idk I'd hate to lose to ff as well. Who would be a logical partner for Nero if we go with the hypothesis of the three of us being town?

Really?

You're assuming I'm getting anything other than trolls from Nero's posting?

His posting is so far alignment null and a barren wasteland where usable information is concerned. Completely.

But he seems to be trying more than Lurker so maybe...

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: Lurker

I don't understand why we've been giving Nero more pressure than this guy

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Post 337 actually makes me feel a lot better about buldermar after rereading last night's posts.

Why? I really feel like I'm lacking a believeable explanation for your sudden change in opinion of me that isn't scum-driven.

Actually I find her reads being fluid town rather than scum because it shows she's legitimately trying to scumhunt

Just trust me in leaving her alive for us to get a better read on her

I originally didn't care because I thought fery was obvscum, but she's lost that feel. Still scum but not as strong. Surprisingly I find her flop on you townie. 369 and 379 look like a town mindset. But it doesn't matter--I feel like 383 encapsulates my thoughts well at this stage

The thing that's sticking out to me right now is her flail because I don't know which way that points.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Wait

How about

VOTE: Syryana

I really don't want to lynch ff today buldermar but listen

If ff is scum, syryana is likely to be a buddy because of that awkward interaction

Syryana also did that thin where he voted you sheeping ff

If ff is scum, so is syryana (probs). But syr is also scummy independent of

This is good

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yeah the entire interaction just seems really off

Gogogo

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Right but why would he vote buldermar and switch off you?

I thought the entire argument about role names was stupid and intentionally avoided it

I can't make that assumption. If I did, I would know exactly who the scum was so the entire exercise is a bit pointless

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Look on fery's side too

[orcinus_theoriginal]

So if you get enough people to follow you, and you have my cardflip to digest, then who of the players who currently have their votes on me will you think are scum?

With nothing more than what's currently in the thread, I'd have to choose Sotty.

Syrana. Since he tried to cover it up with a pretty bullshit reason. Everyone else at least was pretty open that this was a RVS wagon

Siyrana it is.

VOTE: Syrana

Lol hey cool look at that.

I would've called for a PL right out of a gate is what I meant.

This fixation on small details doesn't seem like scumhunting. What exactly are you doing right now ff and what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

I would love to put FF at L-1 right now but I'm afraid of an unpredictable idiot named Nero.

Inconsistencies grab my attention.

I hope to figure some people out, though I usually better on more sleep. I woke up and got back into this thread around 4 am my time. It's 6 am now. Coffee would probably help.

I liked Syryana's last post.

Quickly (it's 2:30 am), the vote on syryana (we've been though this skipping that)

If ff liked syryana's last post, why did she refer to him as null in all future posts

[orcinus_theoriginal]

In the interests of giving you last interactions with people:
UNVOTE:

I don't trust Nero enough to leave you at L-1. I'll put my vote back if your final interactions don't change my mind.

VOTE: buldermar

I still don't understand why

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Lol hey cool look at that.

I would've called for a PL right out of a gate is what I meant.

This fixation on small details doesn't seem like scumhunting. What exactly are you doing right now ff and what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

I would love to put FF at L-1 right now but I'm afraid of an unpredictable idiot named Nero.

Inconsistencies grab my attention.

I hope to figure some people out, though I usually better on more sleep. I woke up and got back into this thread around 4 am my time. It's 6 am now. Coffee would probably help.

I liked Syryana's last post.

Do you think anything about Syryana specifically writing out "Mafia Goon" as opposed to just saying "scum"? I have some thoughts about it, but I'd like to hear yours first.

He's new to the site I think but obviously has mafia experience from his posts.

Hm. Remembering my first game here, I was a lot more careful of local terminology than I've been in later games. I was scum, and that played into my punctiliousness.

Seems wishy washy (weak point but still)

Go ahead fery

[orcinus_theoriginal]

You thought syryana's vote on me as RVS ended was scummy also.

Wait no

I misread this the first time

It was a random name I threw out which I later assumed you sheeped for reaction/pressure. I thought your syr vote was scummy. I didn't have as much a problem with his vote on you

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I think it's weird that fery doesn't have a read on syr considering how much he's posted versus say bacon

[orcinus_theoriginal]

So if you get enough people to follow you, and you have my cardflip to digest, then who of the players who currently have their votes on me will you think are scum?

With nothing more than what's currently in the thread, I'd have to choose Sotty.

Syrana. Since he tried to cover it up with a pretty bullshit reason. Everyone else at least was pretty open that this was a RVS wagon

Siyrana it is.

VOTE: Syrana

Lol hey cool look at that.

I would've called for a PL right out of a gate is what I meant.

This fixation on small details doesn't seem like scumhunting. What exactly are you doing right now ff and what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

I would love to put FF at L-1 right now but I'm afraid of an unpredictable idiot named Nero.

Inconsistencies grab my attention.

I hope to figure some people out, though I usually better on more sleep. I woke up and got back into this thread around 4 am my time. It's 6 am now. Coffee would probably help.

I liked Syryana's last post.

Quickly (it's 2:30 am), the vote on syryana (we've been though this skipping that)

If ff liked syryana's last post, why did she refer to him as null in all future posts

Maybe because town-ff thought that 88 and 93 looks kinda bad in the context of 79?

...why would 88+89 look bad

Why would town ff not say anything about it or engage

[orcinus_theoriginal]

The two have been doing this weird avoiding game and its especially obvious on fery's side

A case on fery got tossed aside completely for a buldermar vote

Ugh and now I want to vote fery again

Damnit

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Actually

No I'm not doing it

It's syryana or lurker today

I can get a better read on you the longer I keep you around

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I think it's weird that fery doesn't have a read on syr considering how much he's posted versus say bacon

idk I think there could be a trillion different explanations for that.

Fery, gun to your head, which way does Syr lean?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nero have you been keeping up with the thread?

Lol hey I haven't seen that postcount thing before

Fery: but you had a read on pitoli which was also "mixed signals" early on?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nero: Give me a quick rundown, T -> S

Buldermar: deep breaths

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nero have you been keeping up with the thread?

every single post

You should do stand-up comedy.

I'm trying to get info out of Nero, do you mind?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Town Pool [reluctantly bulder, orcun and pitoli]

The two scum are in [fferyltt, lurker, syr, delta]

Excluded for undisclosed reasons [Safetydance]

if ffery is scum, lurked is

definitely

not scum

Run me through that last sentence

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Alright

Is that scum pool in order?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

SD/Buldermar, cool it

[orcinus_theoriginal]

SD:
I'm universally town read and so is buldermar if you need to sheep, we're good targets

We have two prof lurkers in town, Lurker and Nero.

Fery is an experienced player with a good town game, claimed VT after getting to l-1, I don't want to lynch but buldermar does. I built case first (ill find it later), buldermar argued that fery shouldn't be lynched because she could be a boon to town. We've basically swapped positions since.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Alright

Is that scum pool in order?

no

Go order it, in prio of lynch targets

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I expect to get lynched early as town more than is my "normal" at MS, in part because my play style evolved elsewhere and it's going to change as I get used to this site. changes are almost always suspicious in mafia. I think my insistence on earning my reputation here instead of importing it from elsewhere is also going to cause trouble, but I'm ok with that.

Np

It's 1am and I just read through ff's only other scum game. This isn't my summarize case but I'm more convinced than ever that FF is scum.

-Ff seems to be more passive and just seems to be less engaged. This is reflected in how FF dealt with Nero.
-Why did she form such a strong read on me from literally 4 one line RVS posts--but not anyone else? Why hasn't she an opinion on Buldemar, who I assume she has offsite experience with? Where is her vote, her other reads? If she's such a strong town player and her 4 vote take it to the grave read on me isn't out of the ordinary, it's strange that she doesn't have a vote down.
-She's been less confrontational, and have expressed very few (if any?) original ideas
-I dislike the syryana vote on page 2. I don't see the pro-town intentions behind it, I don't like how she didn't follow it up
-The KBW thing still confuses me. Why are you referring to it, since you bought it up in reference to a quicklynch? Day 1 of our game was the furthest thing from a quicklynch, ever.
-She's calling out lurker for "needing more content". Don't you need more content from a lot of people (pitoli, etc)? Why singling out lurker, and this insinuates that you don't need more content on anyone else (or at least have enough to work with). I've yet to see an influx of reads from you

And everything previously mentioned

My reading of FF's game really only gave me one thing (well, three, and I'm going to save the other two for later). She's more mellow as scum. And I think I'm seeing that in her posts in this game.

This is just to jot down stuff, ill make a case with specific quotes tomorrow, but this is basically an outline.

SD: I'm going through the thread and picking out important posts

Read p7 in its entirety, it's important

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Buldermar, fery, help me out

Go ISO yourself and pick a few posts that you think are representative of important landmarks in the game. Just a few.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yep.

First off, "an entire game" is misleading. Nero has maybe 50 posts between 3 games. All of them one-liners.

Secondly, from what I've seen of FF last game, I know that she tries very hard as town. And not once in last game did she ever ask for meta--she preferred to get it herself.

Which is why I think that this is out-of-character for town ff. Along with other things.

Something can't be "misleading" when it's a guess, it's just incorrect or inaccurate, which is entirely different - especially in this context.

All I'm saying is that I find the assertion that her not having read the meta being indicative of her being scum silly.

Which other things?

Well I mean you can call it silly just as I can find you calling someone out for saying "Mafia Goon" instead of "scum" as important silly.

I think #26 is an overreaction given my behavior in RVS. I mean, if you blanked out everything after #26 and looked purely at the first page of posts, to have a townread so strong is unbelievable. I mean, I don't think it's possible to have so strong a townread so early, especially given how uncertain she was last game with me.

Fery pressing me on the Nero issue rubs me in the wrong way.

And the meta thing.

Np

It's 1am and I just read through ff's only other scum game. This isn't my summarize case but I'm more convinced than ever that FF is scum.

-Ff seems to be more passive and just seems to be less engaged. This is reflected in how FF dealt with Nero.
-Why did she form such a strong read on me from literally 4 one line RVS posts--but not anyone else? Why hasn't she an opinion on Buldemar, who I assume she has offsite experience with? Where is her vote, her other reads? If she's such a strong town player and her 4 vote take it to the grave read on me isn't out of the ordinary, it's strange that she doesn't have a vote down.
-She's been less confrontational, and have expressed very few (if any?) original ideas
-I dislike the syryana vote on page 2. I don't see the pro-town intentions behind it, I don't like how she didn't follow it up
-The KBW thing still confuses me. Why are you referring to it, since you bought it up in reference to a quicklynch? Day 1 of our game was the furthest thing from a quicklynch, ever.
-She's calling out lurker for "needing more content". Don't you need more content from a lot of people (pitoli, etc)? Why singling out lurker, and this insinuates that you don't need more content on anyone else (or at least have enough to work with). I've yet to see an influx of reads from you

And everything previously mentioned

My reading of FF's game really only gave me one thing (well, three, and I'm going to save the other two for later). She's more mellow as scum. And I think I'm seeing that in her posts in this game.

This is just to jot down stuff, ill make a case with specific quotes tomorrow, but this is basically an outline.

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

Pitoli's wagon is shit.

VOTE: buldermar

VOTE: buldermar

You're going to have to show me how this sudden change in opinion could possible come from town.

VOTE: ff

I'm so

What?

VOTE: buldermar

VOTE: Buldermar

Bad vote

Bad vote

If ff flips scum, the votes on buldemar need to be looked at

Which of the two latest votes do you think looks worst?

Equally bad, but I think syryana because of that awk vote on p2

VOTE: Nero

Can the three of us truce for the remainder of the day

What in particular made you change your opinion of ff? It feels like you're seing something that I don't because to me she looks more scummy than before especially because of all the self-meta'ing stuff that's supposed to indicate her being town.

Paranoia and the realization that we can't win this game if we don't lynch lurkers

Basically we switched positions

I didn't realize before today just how bad the players aside from the three of us are. If we keep fery around for another day or two, we can get a better and more accurate read. The same cannot be said for the lurkers.

Even if fery is scum, we know literally squat about her partners because nobody is giving enough information to analyze. I'm thinking that we'll learn more about people's alignments if fery were scum from fery than from the people themselves.

Wait

How about

VOTE: Syryana

I really don't want to lynch ff today buldermar but listen

If ff is scum, syryana is likely to be a buddy because of that awkward interaction

Syryana also did that thin where he voted you sheeping ff

If ff is scum, so is syryana (probs). But syr is also scummy independent of

This is good

So if you get enough people to follow you, and you have my cardflip to digest, then who of the players who currently have their votes on me will you think are scum?

With nothing more than what's currently in the thread, I'd have to choose Sotty.

Syrana. Since he tried to cover it up with a pretty bullshit reason. Everyone else at least was pretty open that this was a RVS wagon

Siyrana it is.

VOTE: Syrana

Lol hey cool look at that.

I would've called for a PL right out of a gate is what I meant.

This fixation on small details doesn't seem like scumhunting. What exactly are you doing right now ff and what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

I would love to put FF at L-1 right now but I'm afraid of an unpredictable idiot named Nero.

Inconsistencies grab my attention.

I hope to figure some people out, though I usually better on more sleep. I woke up and got back into this thread around 4 am my time. It's 6 am now. Coffee would probably help.

I liked Syryana's last post.

Quickly (it's 2:30 am), the vote on syryana (we've been though this skipping that)

If ff liked syryana's last post, why did she refer to him as null in all future posts

In the interests of giving you last interactions with people:
UNVOTE:

I don't trust Nero enough to leave you at L-1. I'll put my vote back if your final interactions don't change my mind.

VOTE: buldermar

I still don't understand why

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nero: if fery's scum, who are we looking at next?

What do we do about Lurker--policy or what?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I expect to get lynched early as town more than is my "normal" at MS, in part because my play style evolved elsewhere and it's going to change as I get used to this site. changes are almost always suspicious in mafia. I think my insistence on earning my reputation here instead of importing it from elsewhere is also going to cause trouble, but I'm ok with that.

Who specifically do you want as an alternative lynch because I haven't seen you scum reading anyone

Your reply looks mostly fair to me

Pedit: and these changes specifically = ?

It just looks like you're giving up now

Pedit: ok
Hi bacon

I think the wagon on pitoli has merit but I'm not going to add to it until she(?) comes back and responds to her wagon.

Nero's going to be a fucking irritant, but it's a 9 player game. If he's not scum I don't want to lynch him.

Np

It's 1am and I just read through ff's only other scum game. This isn't my summarize case but I'm more convinced than ever that FF is scum.

-Ff seems to be more passive and just seems to be less engaged. This is reflected in how FF dealt with Nero.

More engaged in the thread itself, answering questions. I wanted some indication of what I was looking for first, but I went ahead and took a look, saw a ton of one-liner low content replies. Coming back to the thread, and catching up I saw that your PL talk wasn't based on your own experience with Nero in a game(s) so I feel up to speed on Nero. He's a mafia shitposter. If he's scum we may be more likely to catch him by catching his scum buddy.

-Why did she form such a strong read on me from literally 4 one line RVS posts--but not anyone else? Why hasn't she an opinion on Buldemar, who I assume she has offsite experience with?

My strong read is a testament to my vast experience of one game playing with you. Expect a lot of pointing and laughing from the other side of your monitor once my alignment is known, however that happens in this game. It won't be scum laughing at you. If I'm wrong and you're scum then I'll expect the same.

Where is her vote, her other reads? If she's such a strong town player and her 4 vote take it to the grave read on me isn't out of the ordinary, it's strange that she doesn't have a vote down.

I don't remember being all that quick with my vote in the last game we played. Pretty sure I told you or Klick that I won't be chivvied into putting down a vote before I feel it. I voted Syryana based on your read because you were the only town player on the right track in the Nightless game, and I though some pressure in that direction would be a good thing. I took the vote off when I saw some non-random content that I approved of from him.

-She's been less confrontational, and have expressed very few (if any?) original ideas

I'll have to take your word for it that I'm less confrontational than I was in the early hours of the Nightless game. I remember feeling pretty cautious in that game due to the nightless format and the 2 mislynch leeway.

-I dislike the syryana vote on page 2. I don't see the pro-town intentions behind it, I don't like how she didn't follow it up

I asked you to consider who would be scum on my wagon if I was town and you gave me an answer. I put my vote there. I followed it up with an unvote based on content.

-The KBW thing still confuses me. Why are you referring to it, since you bought it up in reference to a quicklynch? Day 1 of our game was the furthest thing from a quicklynch, ever.

We came really close to a quicklynch when Svenskt subbed in. The final lynch was mostly my doing and I was dead wrong. My takeaway from that game was that I should have listened to you more than most of the other players. I'm pretty much implementing that takeaway despite your total misread on me. I know the changes to my game are confusing. But, my motivation is still driven by my town win condition. If that doesn't eventually become obvious in my play, then I'm failing at the most basic aspect of mafia, and I'll own that and hope it doesn't lead to a town loss.

-She's calling out lurker for "needing more content". Don't you need more content from a lot of people (pitoli, etc)? Why singling out lurker, and this insinuates that you don't need more content on anyone else (or at least have enough to work with). I've yet to see an influx of reads from you

absolutely I need more content from pitoli. Lurker has one post, a random vote. In the current mix, that's by far the least amount to go on.

And everything previously mentioned

My reading of FF's game really only gave me one thing (well, three, and I'm going to save the other two for later). She's more mellow as scum. And I think I'm seeing that in her posts in this game.

I'm happy to know that my scum game looks mellow. It's not. Every post and every night action I make as scum is carefully crafted with one goal in mind - get a scum player to endgame with town players who are likely to mislynch. It's anything but mellow.

This is just to jot down stuff, ill make a case with specific quotes tomorrow, but this is basically an outline.

ok.

buldermar, I'm kinda feeling like the scum players aren't playing yet. :/

VOTE: buldermar

What happened? Reread happened. Even as it was unfolding in real time, I was uncomfortable with your extreme white-knighting.. Rereading, I kept asking myself how you'd come into the thread so certain that I'm town. And then I realized that your argument wasn't that I was town. As soon as orcinus gathered his case up into one post, you immediately backed down about my townishness. But you handn't ever argued that you thought I was town, just that I'm a strong town player (was it "strongest town player"?) on my home forum as though that should be enough.

Two mislynches are all we get. And I think you're setting up the opportunity to accomplish that: big me up as a bloodhound, let me help push a mislynch today, and then tomorrow lynch me for not finding scum on day 1. Then it's likely lylo depending on how the nights go.

I have a better idea. Lynch me today and then town can decide tomorrow if I might be right about you.

I liked pretty much everything about this first post, but specifically her observations of orc and you, and her reply to orc about taking the wagon as constructive criticism. Re her comment about you, I had expressed suspicions of your white-knighting pretty early on, but the speed with which replies were flying at the time led me to gloss over some of your posts until later. Her post was one of the reasons I did another reread.

Gut read on ffery – town. Thinking she might seem “less engaged” or proactive because she’s tired of talking to Orc, and being put on the defensive here.

Leaning town on Orc, I’ve never really seen such aggressive honing right out of the gate but he at least seems precise about where he’s pulling evidence. I don’t see it as flopping on scumreads; it’s him wanting to get as many reactions as possible early in the game - seems legit.

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

In response to Orc – I’m newbtown. This is my fourth forum game ever. So thanks – I’ll take that wagon as constructive criticism not to post fluff ever. I still don’t think that warrants so many votes though – a stupid post is not the same as a scummy post. I want to say there’s scum on my wagon, but not sure; either way the votes are weak.

Liked this post. Didn't like that Deltabacon never responded to it.

@Deltabacon
Can you offer any new evidence on ffery since your vote is still on her? Or any other reads you have.
IMO, it looks like you might have sheeped Orc.

And this - it's a good observation. As a recent (presumed) reaction test subject, myself, I think she's handling herself well and she looks town. Very collected for someone with 5 games under her belt.

Personally I’m liking Buldermar for scum, only because he keeps going on about how valuable Ffery’s going to be. It feels like he’s defending her experience/ability rather than her posts right now.

Pitoli's wagon is shit.

Not sure you've said that enough times...

Do you think I would have gotten this many votes if you hadn't voted me as a reaction test?


@SafetyDance: Welcome!

All in all, to the extent that a town read by a dead town player matters, she's got mine. Just wish I'd had more to evaluate - not just from her but from basically every player besides you and orcinus.

given the near universal certainty that I am scum, pitoli's town read on me is curious. Moving her to unsure.

Post 337 actually makes me feel a lot better about buldermar after rereading last night's posts.

Why? I really feel like I'm lacking a believeable explanation for your sudden change in opinion of me that isn't scum-driven.

Call it an intuitive leap. I've done my best to explain what was an essentially a dawning, stomach-flipping realization that I could be wrong, mostly based on HOW YOU REACTED to my posts.

Townish

orcinus

Unsure:

pitoli
buldermar
SafetyDance
Syryana

Unsure leaning scum

Lurker
Deltabacon

Scummy:

Nero

Probably sheer stubbornness at this point not moving buldermar to the Town list. I've been replying to him like his posts are coming from a town orientation since my first post of the day.

The difference between the two bottom lists is so negligible they could be combined without losing anything meaningful.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I feel like this is misrepresentative

Okay yeah just go read the thread

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Next post you make complaining about thread length I'm going to policy you

It adds nothing to discussion, heightens needless animosity, and...what? Oh, that's right.

Makes the thread longer

Pedit: I sometimes post late at night and I preface my posts with that fact. I don't find it alignment indicative

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Hey guys, just posting quickly after skimming the thread again.

I've got a project due later tonight,

after which you can expect updates on my reads, however murky.

Is this something you find ok? Do you want someone who's hypothetically-town in the game to have "murky" reads that are due to time constraints and having to skim posts? Do you want hypothetical-scum to be able to use "murky" as an excuse for their inaccurate reads?

Asking for help towards clarity, again, is not laziness.

Do you normally jump this hard on stuff like this?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

SD: T->S list and your opinion on a syryana or deltabacon lynch

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nero: if fery's scum, who are we looking at next?

What do we do about Lurker--policy or what?

Policy lynching is what elitist nubs advocate when they're too shit to scumhunt and find the mafia.

Two questions in that post

[orcinus_theoriginal]

SD: T->S list and your opinion on a syryana or deltabacon lynch

Scum in: buldermar, fferyllt, orcinus_theoriginal
Possible scum in: nero, Lurker
No idea: pitoli, Deltabacon, Syryana

I can't tell if this is sarcasm

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Buldermar, fery, help me out

Go ISO yourself and pick a few posts that you think are representative of important landmarks in the game. Just a few.

I'm aware that you wont like this, but it's not going to happen. It's a game of 20 pages with 9 players most of which hardly have posted - it's a quick read and he can just quit being lazy. If he has questions to specific posts I'm fine with answering them.

Get that rod out of your ass. I've already read the whole thread. It's 3 people walling each other, look at what orc is posting. It's not easy having to read through all that again. It's not lazy to ask for you yourselves to summarise the whole pages. It also helps with reads on yourselves as we can then gauge whether your interpretation of everything is the same as what we think. ITS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING LAZY.

"Its only 20 pages", that more than some games reach at day 3 with 13 players. You three have been posting at a fast rate and you can not tell it is helping. Again, do you think it really helps that those catching up have to ISO the other players not in your ménage trois to remember their posts? No.

Were I talking to you? No. So stfu.

Vote: buldermar

For the love of god

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Pitoli: by that logic, we would never be able to lynch Nero/Lurker because their posts wouldn't give us any information

I feel like SD is town

Pedit: ninja'd

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Messed up that last post. "Alright you're probably town for that." is my response to his vote.

Thoughts on his t/s list?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Idk I read his list as tongue in cheek

But if its serious I'm considering voting him

The aggression towards pitoli looks fake and completely unfounded

That and the joke of a list has me wondering

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Buldermar, fery, help me out

Go ISO yourself and pick a few posts that you think are representative of important landmarks in the game. Just a few.

We're not doing this, right?

nah

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I hate people calling out pitoli for 517, she said it was a quick note before she went to bed and I think calling her out for it is opportunistic as fuck

Syryana is probably the same alignment as fery

Honestly speaking fery: how much is the interest of self preservation screwing with your reads right now?

VOTE: Lurker

I feel like we want to policy lynch today and maybe tomorrow will be more productive because I have no freaking clue who anyone is anymore.

I have buldermar town, fery as DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT, Syryana completely dependent on Fery's alignment, the rest all varying levels of lean scum

[orcinus_theoriginal]

When have I ever put a gun to your head and told you to vote somewhere or be lynched?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yeah but I never told you to vote him

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I asked you what your guess on syr's alignment was

[orcinus_theoriginal]

No. You kept syr in a null pile the entire game, so if I asked you straight out, I expected a "judgement pending" answer. I wanted to force you to give me a lean on syr.

Gun comment was to force you to take a stance on syryana

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yeah I noticed

Who do you want to lynch today?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

If its still the pile of lurker/Nero/bacon, lynch lurker

[orcinus_theoriginal]

If we're going to PL I'd rather lurker over Nero

Nero actually looks like he's been trying (more do than his other games). I think Lurker will be flat out impossible to read. That and I don't like how lurker has been flying under the radar and Nero getting the PL flak when from an objective standpoint lurker is probably a more defendable PL target

Your pitoli argument also applies to Nero jsyk.

SD needs to go back to null I think

Pedit sure

[orcinus_theoriginal]

As a side note something that I thought of: if fery were scum it would be very strange of her to town read me given that I'm generally an easy wagon to drive and since fery evidently thinks my town game is decent (her opinion, not mine)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

pitoli, what do you think of Nero?

What do you think about lurker>nero

[orcinus_theoriginal]

What info are you referring to specifically?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Not easy, sorry

Tempting is a better word

[orcinus_theoriginal]

As in I've had wagons on me for basically all of my games, but I've only been lynched 3 times onsite

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I wish you two could find more common ground than you have so far.

I wish he'd wake up and agree to lynch you.

If you're going to waste the next 10 days trying to figure out who could be my scum buddy instead of scum hunting, then I wish he'd agree to lynch me too. Confirmation bias ftl.

Sorry bulder look elsewhere we're PLing today

And just so you know, Nero lynch is also a PL because for him, intentional trolling may not be alignment indicative, only anti-town. Anti-town and scummy are two different things.

It's lurker or Nero, both I can dig if it really comes down to it, but lurker is my preference. Not a strong one particularly though

Or we could wait for lurker to be replaced and for bacon to come off VLA and for more info from Syryana (who I really need to reply to and I think has started giving some good points).

Oh and syryana is same alignment as fery because if fery town, syryana's suspicions look legit and I trust fery's read, and obviously if fery scum the interaction is too awkward for me to accept

Do scum have day talk?

Pedit: I like syryana

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Sorry bulder look elsewhere we're PLing today

And just so you know, Nero lynch is also a PL because for him, intentional trolling may not be alignment indicative, only anti-town. Anti-town and scummy are two different things.

It's lurker or Nero, both I can dig if it really comes down to it, but lurker is my preference. Not a strong one particularly though

Or we could wait for lurker to be replaced and for bacon to come off VLA and for more info from Syryana (who I really need to reply to and I think has started giving some good points).

Oh and syryana is same alignment as fery because if fery town, syryana's suspicions look legit and I trust fery's read, and obviously if fery scum the interaction is too awkward for me to accept

Do scum have day talk?

Pedit: I like syryana

My main problem with Lurker is that I got him mislynched (I was scum, him town) in another game for doing exactly what he's doing here. He's great mislynch material because he lurks all game then under pressure shits out some awful logic. His lurking is about as alignment indicative as Nero's trolling.

So why exactly are you voting Nero instead of lurker

[orcinus_theoriginal]

In my opinion knowing that she's awesome is important regardless of her alignment.

While I agree that knowing a player's competence is good, your description of FF in the early game seemed excessive, to put it mildly.

That's fair, but I think most of you are still underestimating her. In particular, I think orc allowed himself to be manipulated into unvoting her due to a neat little stunt she made in which she suddently changed her opinion of me while insisting that she could have gotten me lynched if she wanted to and therefore must be town.

I don't have a town read on fery if that's what you're asking

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Lets just clear up where I stand on the whole fery situation and why I don't want her lynch today

If nothing changes, I want fery gone at some point in time. I think she's scummy. Less so than before.

I am, however, unwilling to lynch fery unless I am 100% sure or unless we're heading into lylo or something. This is because of several reasons.

Firstly, keeping fery around gives me a better read not just on her, but also, in the event that she's scum, on other players.

Secondly, we have several players right now that we simply just cannot read. We CANNOT read lurker. We can BARELY read Nero. Bacon is VLA. SD has intellectual lapses.

We need to lynch in lurker and Nero today because we have no way of determining their alliance, no way of ascertaining anything from their posts. This is not true for fery.

Lurker and Nero WILL be lynched at some point in time. Given thei lack of usefulness of their posts, it's best that that lynch happens today

[orcinus_theoriginal]

So why exactly are you voting Nero instead of lurker

Because Lurker's matching his townplay right now and he's provided more to the game than Nero has.

I don't know about pt 1 but pt 2 of that post is a blatant lie

[orcinus_theoriginal]

The more people negatively react to

three

votes on Lurker, one of which is a RVS vote, the more I'm liking this wagon.

I like this post

Reading Lurker's recent posts, his posting style has change overall so this comparison with the past I don't think holds

It also gives some very interesting realizations. Look at where the buldermar vote stands in his postin history.

I am firmly convinced you can't read this fucker and he should be PLd

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I mean, my posting style from some of my early games has changed drastically so a comparison between this and an early town game would paint me as scum.

Comparison isn't valid.

Pedit: just vote lurker.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Well okay

VOTE: SafetyDance

I love how you list scum inthe three of us and made no effort to push a lynch, or even specify which of us is likely scum, or even list any evidence for why you think our interactions are forced.

I also have no interest in reading your posts which are just you spewing insults on the page. I've tried being nice to you.

You're right why policy when a scum just appeared in front of us

Good lord

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Hey guys, just posting quickly after skimming the thread again.

I've got a project due later tonight,

after which you can expect updates on my reads, however murky.

Is this something you find ok? Do you want someone who's hypothetically-town in the game to have "murky" reads that are due to time constraints and having to skim posts? Do you want hypothetical-scum to be able to use "murky" as an excuse for their inaccurate reads?

Asking for help towards clarity, again, is not laziness.

"No aggression towards pitoli"

I'm not the only person seeing this right

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Cool lets wagon

Maybe lurker will replace out

[orcinus_theoriginal]

You know what's weird about SD?

In all his bile I don't think he's taken a single shot at me.

VOTE: SafetyDance

Yeah iirc he said he had a town read on you in his entrance. But then something changed?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

No he included you in the "list" under "scummy"

I'm putting that in quotations because literally it is too terrible to be the work of even the worst town player.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Hi buld talk to me about 627

And maybe the SD wagon

Pedit: I do, trust me

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Or don't trust me I don't care

But I'm confident with maybe 80% accuracy that I will be able to correctly deduce fery's alignment given one more day

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Also on Nero/lurker

I thought it over. I firmly believe that if we were to policy, we should policy lurker

The thing is, many people have expressed that they would like to lynch Nero and not lurker. Scum must recognize that town will not policy lynch twice in a 9p micro.

The optimal strategy for scum during a policy lynch would be to push for an incorrect one

And let's be honest Nero and Lurker are equally trolly, Nero at least answered some questions of mine. And the buldermar vote sucked.

Lurker/fery makes a lot of sense tbh. So if you believe ff scum you should be looking at lurker over Nero.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Nah before today I was okay with Nero or lurker, leaning towards the latter. Today I realized that if we were to policy we probably only get one shot at it.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

That's a giant backtrack and its so obvious I'm going to let somebody else explain it because I'm off to bed

Really quickly though

In post 511, SafetyDance wrote:
Scum in: buldermar, fferyllt, orcinus_theoriginal

I think there's definite scum here because I don't think your reactions to each other are all coming from town.

--

Why would you put ff under "scum in" if you don't think she was scum? It's like me giving a list that looked like

Scum in: [playerlist]

Your anger looks manufactured and its really not helping your case.

Buld: put him to l-1 or give me your reasons why you aren't

And nice OMGUS try to make it slightly less transparent next time, SD. I enjoy how you didn't address much of my post.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

No he included you in the "list" under "scummy"

I'm putting that in quotations because literally it is too terrible to be the work of even the worst town player.

That kinda fits with the 'not here' vibe in a way. I'm almost certainly going to be lynched, though maybe not today. He's distanced himself from that. Nobody else has done so quite that emphatically, except maybe pitoli.

You also didn't read this, SD.

Pedit: And you can?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Also on Nero/lurker

I thought it over. I firmly believe that if we were to policy, we should policy lurker

The thing is, many people have expressed that they would like to lynch Nero and not lurker. Scum must recognize that town will not policy lynch twice in a 9p micro.

The optimal strategy for scum during a policy lynch would be to push for an incorrect one

And let's be honest Nero and Lurker are equally trolly, Nero at least answered some questions of mine. And the buldermar vote sucked.

Lurker/fery makes a lot of sense tbh. So if you believe ff scum you should be looking at lurker over Nero.

This post needs more attention

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Lets just clear up where I stand on the whole fery situation and why I don't want her lynch today

If nothing changes, I want fery gone at some point in time. I think she's scummy. Less so than before.

I am, however, unwilling to lynch fery unless I am 100% sure or unless we're heading into lylo or something. This is because of several reasons.

Firstly, keeping fery around gives me a better read not just on her, but also, in the event that she's scum, on other players.

Secondly, we have several players right now that we simply just cannot read. We CANNOT read lurker. We can BARELY read Nero. Bacon is VLA. SD has intellectual lapses.

We need to lynch in lurker and Nero today because we have no way of determining their alliance, no way of ascertaining anything from their posts. This is not true for fery.

Lurker and Nero WILL be lynched at some point in time. Given thei lack of usefulness of their posts, it's best that that lynch happens today

Morning fery.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

When I drunkpost everyone's all lynchy and serious. It's not fair.

Start drinking. Watching you and buldermar drunk post at each other would totally be worth it.

I've done my part.

You feeling okay, fery?

I realized that I could use this game to try out a tell.

So far, in every game I played, if a person drunk posts, they've been town.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Morning fery.

Of all the nicks/abbrevs of my account name I like this one best.

Only cause its me saying it.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

When I drunkpost everyone's all lynchy and serious. It's not fair.

Start drinking. Watching you and buldermar drunk post at each other would totally be worth it.

I've done my part.

You feeling okay, fery?

I realized that I could use this game to try out a tell.

So far, in every game I played, if a person drunk posts, they've been town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coincidence

No, I tell you.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Morning fery.

Of all the nicks/abbrevs of my account name I like this one best.

From now on I will refer to as

girl

.

That's mean.

Is it? I thought it was cute. You are a girl, aren't you?

Flirting is AtE

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Fuck it, why not.

Vote: Lurker

Catching up to your posts ff, will have to wait till tomorrow (real time...to clarify) though.

Hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaha

[orcinus_theoriginal]

fuck you all

i think this is a bad vote

and when ff flips town i will hate all of you

please let me be wrong

VOTE: fery

[orcinus_theoriginal]

well no actually

i think there is a decent chance of fery flipping scum

i just don't think that this is the correct vote for the day

so yeah actually i'm good with this

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: fferyllt

SD next please.

what were you?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Town.

It's not quite 4 am my time. If there's anything you want to talk about before nightfall, make it quick.

Why SD over a policy lynch

What is buldemar I can't read him

[orcinus_theoriginal]

And how sure are you about Syryana because I sort of want to play the rest of the game with Syryana as conftown.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Okay

How dangerous is keeping Buldermar alive if he were scum? How good is his town game?

How strong is your town vibe on Syryana?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Deltabacon/Lurker/Nero need to be sorted, how?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

All right.

I think that's enough to go on, leave your reads as a list one more time for good measure if you want, but I'm satisfied.

Sorry bout the early tunneling, and I feel we could've worked alongside each other better in the game.

Take care

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Fuck.

Buldermar's scum isn't he.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why would buldermar act like that after you turned town?

There's absolutely no point to continue acting like town for such an extended period of time.

Why why why where is the motivation

Scum defending a lynch.


Fuck.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Ugh but then

The WKing is too blatant


Did Buldermar and I ever call you ideal lynch at the same time

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Ugh but then

The WKing is too blatant


Did Buldermar and I ever call you ideal lynch at the same time

I don't think so.

...he's probably town then. my memory got a bit screwy. I remembered him calling you for the lynch with me, and then when I jumped off and others hopped on he continued driving the wagon.

Okay.

Okay.

I know what I'm doing now.

Pedit: Well no pit. It's okay though.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I may or may not be doing that same thing to buldermar.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Have you ever played mafia on another site before Syryana?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Oh and I might as well put down all my thoughts ITT

If SD flips scum, Nero needs to be lynched immediately after

If SD flips town, we're looking at a town Nero.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm not 100% sure of SD's alignment.

vigbait

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Don't forget about Lurker too, orc.

Lurker's alignment is not impacted by SD's.

To be brutally honest I've been leaning town on Nero this whole game.

Jesus Christ, it's like you can't even take eight hours to go sleep around here. I leave you people alone and there's a dead person by the time I get back. For shame.

We had eight days left on deadline, you people couldn't have waited or even given things a bit more thought?

I think the votes were just cast in the interest of gathering information as quickly as possible.

I hammered fery because we weren't getting anywhere. And Buldermar wouldn't listen to me.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Fery was wrong about SD.

VOTE: Pitoli

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yeah I'm pretty sure SD is the other neighbor.

We're lynching between the follow people today
Pitoli, Lurker, Buldermar

Thanks

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Lol wait so you think SD night killed Nero because I don't see that happening

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Pitoli is still a better case over "WIFOM lol"

btw i'm happy I was right about nero hah buldermar I told you so

[orcinus_theoriginal]

My hydra with fery, sorry misposted

Pitoli because some of her posts aren't adding up.

I'm also cool with a Lurker lynch.

I feel like Nero was a Buldermar night-kill.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Actually

Why would Lurker NK Nero

Ugh this night kill is really freaking weird. And I don't normally do NK analysis but...

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I feel like Nero was a Buldermar night-kill.

Scum who are squarely read as town normally go for off-color night kills

I feel like this is one of them.

the uh I'll explain later

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Leave Pitoli alive for now. I'm good with Lurker or Buld. Lurker over Buld.

You're just good with lynching me because mollie is sitting next to me wrongfully telling you that I'm scum in every single game I'm playing, lol. Am I wrong in asserting that you're talking to her about this game?

Whoa there

Actually

Why would Lurker NK Nero

Ugh this night kill is really freaking weird. And I don't normally do NK analysis but...

Well, why would lurker lurk the crap out of this game and make no sense in his posts?

because he's a troll?

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I do find it alarming from what I did see that Orc was WK'ing Buld and today he's okay to lynch Buld off the NK.

Are you high, when the fuck did I white knight buldermar


Also sorry I spent all of today babysitting another game, I'll get to this

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Basically you voted the whole entire player list, but Buld and somewhat of SD.

As I said its a bit of a 180 to me. >.>

VOTE: Malakittens

Policy for stupidity+not reading.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

and maybe scum for intentional misrep

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Gaj.

Turns out I am a male character.

I did not know that.

Gaius Baltar?

VOTE: Lurker

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i'm alt slipping all over the place

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Lets mass claim rolenames

What do you guys think

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Lets mass claim rolenames

What do you guys think

Laura Roslin

Popcorn buldermar

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Gaius Baltar as neighbor makes a lot of sense

[orcinus_theoriginal]

And as a miller lol

I'm not too sure but ill see if its usable, it should be in some way. The two flips had flavor that worked with alliance (not role), so I like that we're outing alignment indicator rather than role ones

Ill write up pitoli case tonight if I don't get sidetracked by another game (again)

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Well, she has tits, so that's probably something to do with Gaius

Lol Nero fucked SD in the neighbor QT

[orcinus_theoriginal]

The more I think about this the more I feel SD killed Nero

I'm going to stop posting now, my next post will be pitoli case

Pedit: was a joke, given gaius' record with women

[orcinus_theoriginal]

I'm a good-looking guy named Lee Adama, I'm a prodigal son. Then there is a bunch of info about my awesome father whom I get into trouble with frequently.

I'll popcorn pitoli for you