Newbie 1356 (OVER)

[RadiantCowbells]

Cop here and I have a scum result on

Vote: Mist7676

Quick! Lynch the SE!

[RadiantCowbells]

Should a town player ever lie about his role? What if that player is a VT? What if that player is a power role?

I know this isn't the politically correct view on this website, which abhors gambiting, but:

Yes. Gambiting can be extremely effective and it, like any WIFOM, gives extremely strong potential benefits if done properly.
In my first game I gambited successfully to live another day as cop, fakeclaiming VT as cop with a wagon already on me, and it kept me alive another day and could have won the game for us.
Does that mean if I claim VT scum are going to NK me right away in case I'm actually a cop or doc?

[RadiantCowbells]

The inactivity makes me

Can we get some prods please?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm town Dayvig. Dayvig here.

Challenge my claim and you get shot.

[RadiantCowbells]

So much activity!

Vote: RadiantCowbells

[RadiantCowbells]

And so the Lord said unto John "Thou shalt be more active in thy game of mafia, for yonder 45 post at 5 day game of mafia hath bored me."

And John was more active, and the game was good.

[RadiantCowbells]

Null tell, leaning town-ish. Most likely because a past game was lost for her because of people sheeping ICs.

Unvote

Vote: Shaboostein

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote: Mutley

Seriously douchebaggy style of play, not working towards town win condition, just trying to get himself a meta.
Or can he be replaced? I don't want to play with one potential town acting scummy all game so that he doesn't look scum when he is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Unvote

I have no desire to play with this troll, and I'm not risking wasting a lynch.

Either he needs to be replaced or I do.

This behaviour is completely unacceptable and acting like scum every game to set up a meta of acting scum is not working towards your win condition in any individual game, ie this one.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can we seriously replace this douchebag?

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote: Mutley

[RadiantCowbells]

I am not playing until this troll gets lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

I already offered.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote: Shaboostein

baaah

No but seriously, lurks away the game, then BAM gets voted and responds instantly.
I don't like it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because the pressure on me makes no sense and no town in their right mind would confirm intent to hammer based on the logic given by the three votes on me thus far.

[RadiantCowbells]

Paid Pyro's logic is solid and I find little wrong with it.
At the very least, Varsoon should defend himself.

Vote: Varsoon

[RadiantCowbells]

Heh heh heh.

I remember that stance well.

So, your father taught you swordplay, did he?

How very happy that makes me.

Heh heh heh.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh my god you play Fire Emblem don't replace out pleeeeeease

I need you

[RadiantCowbells]

But I <3ed Shaboostein

I H8 U MESSIAH WHY U REPLACE MY FIRE EMBLEM BFF

[RadiantCowbells]

V/LA for two days because studying

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm back, and still fully in support of the Varsoon wagon upon which my vote stands.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is me posting intent to hammer.

I don't necessarily think that Mist is scum, while I do still find Varsoon to be scum, but it's better than a NL.

Last chance for Mist to convince us that she's not scum.

RC LURK

Sorry but I'm in exams. When they're done I'll be much more active.

[RadiantCowbells]

I need to think on those flips.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah, I've thought about it.

Vote: Mist7676

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually, I feel like DDDP will die tonight so I am going to post my reasoning behind my current vote.

RC is put at L-1 in 155 and I have absolutely no interest in that wagon. Here's the thing, if you're scum and fishing for an easy Muttley lynch you don't phrase it as a policy lynch and you don't threaten to replace out. The first decreases the odds of it happening significantly and the second is just silly when Muttley is not likely to be competent with his personality and likely to get lynched at some point on his own.

Scum would have no motivation to hard defend someone lurking as hard as I was at this point. They would be motivated to do one of two things:
a) make me look scummy and lynch me now.
b) make me look scummy and lynch me later.

In general, doing b would be the better decision because there were tons of easy town wagons d1, and I had already been put to l1 and would be considered the easiest lynch.
What DDDP did was hard defend me in a way that would make it extremely difficult to push a lynch on me later, and he did so when there were no other concrete wagons. That genuinely implies that he wants me alive, which scum would have no reason to do. This can and should be interpreted as meaning that either we are both scum or that DDDP believes that we are both town. In essence, knowing myself as confirmed town makes DDDP very likely to be town, though the river doesn't necessarily flow in the opposite direction.

On top of that, when people act unorthodox, town mentality is to lynch them to remove variables while scum mentality is to keep them alive to propagate confusion. DDDP did the former, Mist did the latter, as shown in the following quotes.

by DDDP:

You want a meta of claiming scum and being obnoxious to have a better scum game? That's fine, hope you don't mind getting lynched every game as town and based on the odds of it you're going to draw town a fair amount more than scum... idiot.

by Mist:

Also, the fact it was done during RVS, makes it less substantial. If he did this later in the game, now that'd be something to watch out for.

Furthermore, as a lurker I don't look scummy or town or really anything at all without any attention being drawn to it. Mist is making it a point to do that.

RadiantCowbells - I don't really care, I want him dead soon.

Notice that she's not trying to bring up a case against me at this time, she's just establishing that she wants to lynch my slot. It would be tremendously antitown for her to suspect my slot to the point of wanting me dead soon but to not make a case or say anything, but that's entirely not the point of this exercise. I find a much more suitable explanation to be that she is laying the seeds for my lynch because she sees me as the easiest target left alive because of my lurking. There is really no other protown explanation for that, and as a result I am firmly in support of this lynch at this time.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh and btw happy birthday dddp

[RadiantCowbells]

Anything further I say would suggest mafia strategy tonight.

[RadiantCowbells]

The fact that in 554, Dexter makes a case for zoggoth being scum then says that the most likely scum is mist set off my scumdar, on top of the "if DDDP survives then pressure him tomorrow" statement, but I ISO'd him and am not convinced that he's scum. Null at worst, leaning towards the town end of the spectrum. However,

RC is still useless. What else is new?

Funny considering I have given more reasoning behind my Mist vote than anyone else has. #swagyologetoveritkony2012

I read DDDP and Dexter as most town. I would not support a lynch on either at this time, even to stop a NL.
I have a null read on Freezing-Hell and Zoggoth. I would prefer not to lynch either of those at this time, but they would be preferable to a NL.
I have a slight scumread on Mutley. I would support a lynch on him at this time if Mist is not getting lynched.
I read Mist7676 as most scum. I would (and am) support(ing) a lynch on her at this time.

Following the mist flip, I will have new information.

[RadiantCowbells]

hi

[RadiantCowbells]

Unvote

I'm still generally in favour of the lynch but I'd like more time to think about it now.

[RadiantCowbells]

So you think FH is basically guaranteed scum and yet you vote PP?

[RadiantCowbells]

@Moderator, hey dawg, usually when a newbie game resumes I get a private message. I didn't get one in this instance so I didn't know the game was resumed.

Vote: Dexter

I currently suspect that Freezing is busing his partner but I am not entirely certain. Dexter, however, I am fairly sure about.

[RadiantCowbells]

I explicitly said Dexter was my strongest scum read yesterday.

I am nearly positive at this point that the scumteam is FH + Dexter.

I am fine voting either of them.

[RadiantCowbells]

Right, right.

Mixed up mutley and etc.

Is this better?

Vote: Freezing-hell

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually I'm not going to do that.

Vote: Dexter

Confirmed scum.

Lynch him or me today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Note that Dexter is subtly making FH look townier to try to get the lynch onto me instead of him.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Dexter was town then he would know that FH voting him and me voting him means we both have to be scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

So, theoretically, you should be fine with a lynch on either of us. You claiming town is logically untenable with your claim that I am likely scum but FH isn't.

[RadiantCowbells]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Quickhammer

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're so sure, then vote me and give me two confirmed town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think he's town. I mixed up the names, not the reads.

I also think you're scum.

Also @DDDP, don't presume to judge my competence. I know full well what I was doing.

[RadiantCowbells]

Of course he's confirmed scum. I voted him + no quickhammer = conf scum.

Now bus your partner for towncred please.

[RadiantCowbells]

And what exactly were you doing then?

Voting my scumspects, because voting your scumspects is what town players do.

[RadiantCowbells]

Go on then. If I'm scum, why aren't you voting me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Because I voted him and no one has hammered for the win.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Quickhammer
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Quickhammer
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Quickhammer

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay.

Then help me bus my partner.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I accept you as competent then it probably means you need to be lynched because the only competent player who does that is scum.

Then why aren't you voting me?

I went with a dangerous gambit in order to find out who scum was. I have to be honest and say that it was stupid to do, and really risky, but it got us scum soo hurray.

Then why aren't you voting me?

[RadiantCowbells]

Dexter is confirmed scum.

I believe that FH is the other scum and his move was to bus Dexter, but he relented when I followed his vote because he saw a push on me as easier.
Zoggoth is also a possibility but less likely.
I strongly doubt DDDP is scum because I think if he had voted me then FH would have followed, giving Dexter the hammer.

Lynch is between me and Dexter today, so don't worry about any scumteams that don't include us. They aren't happening.
@Dexter, you should be voting me. I am voting you so that would make me confirmed scum from your point of view by the lack of a hammer, if you were town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then why aren't you voting me?

Because FH is a "gambiting" hypocrite and I don't trust anyone in LYLO, I'll do my own analysis of the gambit later today and see where I stand.

This isn't between me and FH, this is between me and Dexter.

While I do think he's scum, forget his shenanigans and decide between me or dexter.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm smart, actually.

I told them that if they believed what they said they would already have voted me. Clearly they don't so I don't need to point out the flaws in their line of reasoning.

You are confirmed scum because you haven't been quickhammered several days after I first voted you. A matter of minutes is fine; this time length is not. Now vote me.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, because the chances are FH is your partner and you aren't ready to commit yet.

However, you should still be voting me because if in some fantasy you were town, that would make me scum.
You should probably consider not talking anymore, because all you're doing is giving town information after your flip.

[RadiantCowbells]

If RC/Dex is an option, then there's a 75% chance that the scumteam includes Dexter and you would still be better off voting me than him in that scenario.

I do also question DDDP for not considering that possibility, because his claim of bad play on my part would make my actions make sense; I tried to bus my partner but then didn't know what to do after, and he made the play of looking town to turn the bus on me so that I get lynched, he kills DDDP tomorrow, then pushes FH to get a lynch on Zoggoth tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

DDDP isn't confirmed town. He's just very likely to be town. It's possible that you were really gambiting when you said you were and DDDP thought it would look like capitalizing if he were to jump on the opportunity to lynch me like a dog on an ass flavoured biscuit. But he's sufficiently likely to be town that I will concede the win to him if he is in fact scum, in exchange for leaving town a leader after I die tonight.

Zoggoth could very well be scum, and with his lurking away of lylo, it seems more and more like a possibility. There's also some interesting things to see in Dexter's iso about the way he avoids associating himself with Zoggoth ever. But I'm not sure about it, given that the iso's between you two are somewhat strained as well, and am concentrating my efforts on just getting the Dexter lynch for now.

I am, frankly, not overly concerned with finding the partner right now. It's generally accepted that DDDP is clear, so he's going to die tonight, and I will have a chance to bring my game into lylo. If it's not him, it's me, since neither you nor Zoggoth are particularly good kills tonight. I am quite comfortable with both possibilities for three way lylo; my goal is just to get there.


As to why I voted Dexter, he had never bothered me before but I read his iso after your vote and it just clicked and I didn't like him at all.
He called people out for stuff but very passively; he pointed out stuff people did but NEVER pushed for a lynch on anyone. Not once. Even now, he refuses to vote for me. I stopped reading and placed my vote down at 169. He also seemed to spend a ton of time asking people pointless philosophy questions instead of playing the game and scumhunting. I also had a definite impression after seeing the vote that this was a bus, and how I thought today would go would be that you would place reasons for your vote, he'd get lynched, you'd kill DDDP, and then I'd speedvote you out of the gate and convince Zoggoth that you were scum. Your reaction, taking off your vote, caught me off guard, but I must admit that it doesn't really reflect upon whether or not you are scum or town, and especially worrisome is the fact that you just happened to hit scum with your supposed "random" vote. I don't like his reactions either, but the way he hard pushed on me and completely ignored you just doesn't sit well to me. In fact, were I DDDP or even you, I would think that me and Dexter are double bussing, but with the information that I am town I am left completely confused as to what he was trying to do; unless it was just the obvious FH is scum and he wanted to push the mislynch, but he pushed that so unbelievably hard that even he must realize that just made you look much scummier. Even more interesting is that he's shut up now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I only brought up the possibility that DDDP isn't town because I find it so strange that he ignored the possibility of a RC/Dexter scumteam because if I didn't know I was town, I would consider it far more likely than RC/Zoggoth. Like I said above. But, also like I said above, I'll let it sit for now. But if DDDP and I are still alive tomorrow, with either you or Zoggoth, I'm not quite sure what I will do.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wrong, because the theory is that DDDP and Dexter are a scumteam, and therefore if he hammered Dexter it wouldn't in fact be an autowin.

It is, however, confirmed that he isn't scum with anyone else, but that information is meaningless to me because I already know that he couldn't be scum with anyone else because Dexter is a confirmed scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think any further commentary from me would suggest mafia strategy.

@Zog/FH, it should be understood that there is at least one town on this wagon right now, because if RC/DDDP was a scumteam, DDDP would have hammered with me and FH.
Therefore, when you've both had the opportunity to hammer and don't, or if you do in fact, Dexter becomes confirmed scum.

I probably won't live to Lylo, so if I die tonight, tell your mother I love her.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well, that escalated quickly.

But we can still discuss into twilight! :V

No hasty votes by anyone in 3 way LyLo please.

[RadiantCowbells]

DANNY NOOOOOOOOO

[RadiantCowbells]

If anyone wants to claim doc or jailkeeper, you will do so in your next post.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hello?

[RadiantCowbells]

Except that you're scum and I'll see you in hell.

VOTE: Freezing-hell

Zog, if you're scum, go ahead and quickhammer. All the arguments were already made yesterday, it's up to you to do this right if you're town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm sure we all saw that Dexter just pushed on me when we were both options.

I was pretty much decided on this vote from the get go. I just didn't want zoggoth or DDDP to make a hasty vote if they survived and make things more complicated for me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Nah, he just sucks really, really bad.

Sorry he was your partner though.

Should I mention that the IC thought I was an extremely unlikely dexter partner, and you a much more likely one?

[RadiantCowbells]

I honestly figured it was Zoggoth because Dexter's self vote made me believe that he expected to win, but I also thought FH would be literally impossible to convince.

So, stuck between a rock and a hard place. I was hoping that I would be killed so that DDDP would be able to play 3 way Lylo

[RadiantCowbells]

If I tried to convince him that would have made zoggoth vote me if I was wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

I would have tried if FH was worth trying for.

[RadiantCowbells]

Congrats to mafia.. Not sure about any advice, Zoggoth. Perhaps you'd need to be a bit more agressive. To be honest, I didn't care about this game at all because of RadiantCowBells. I didn't care if she was mafia either, I am just policy lynching him in every game. Completely ruined the fun for me in this game.

Ironic that you say that while complaining about me.