Khan's Wacky Xylbot II Mafia (Mini 1441) (Game Over)

[serrapaladin]

Hi guys.
VOTE: mod for voting pedantry
and

!vote Sharper

for reasons.

[serrapaladin]

Last game with same setup is here. Lot's of setups were posted there by KK and Katsuki. Spamming this with more setups is not cool.

Wacky isn't necessarily bastard, I think - it's just swingy and PR heavy. If your role says VT, you're most likely a VT. I don't like Syryana's "treating this as mountainous". Care to elaborate, Syr?

I"m pretty sure asking for setups is just for the sake of asking. Katsuki's attempt to ask for them last game didn't seem to be very fruitful to me.

Still waiting on Sharper.

That's not quite true - last game we did sort of solve it towards the end.

Not liking Serra voting 'with reason'.

K?

PimHel and Syryana/Varsoon's back-and-forth about activity is odd. Doesn't really strike me as something either would want to waste time over on D2 of play.

Hey, I'm talkative.
And, besides, it's like...
USERS CURRENTLY BROWSING THIS FORUM: Varsoon

Particularly this is deflecting an accusation of lurking that wasn't made. Jumpy?


Why are we PLing monkeyman?

Mass claim later, methinks.

[serrapaladin]

Millers and death millers get VT, cops and similar mightn't be sane, and some roles are false. That's not THAT bastardy. It's not 'insane'.

[serrapaladin]

!vote Varsoon

Serra brought it to my attention that Varsoon has responded too heavily to the 'accusation' of sorta-lurking.

It's more that he responded to an 'accusation' that wasn't even made.

Sharper is also a good vote, though.

[serrapaladin]

It's really not 'bastard' in the sense you're implying though. There are some non-standard roles, is all.

KK

will not

, however, count votes in the wrong format. Even caused us a No Lynch last game...

[serrapaladin]

Either we can choose to massclaim or not.

Someone give this guy a medal.

I don't think we should mass claim yet. We don't know in which direction the game is unbalanced.

[serrapaladin]

Post 110 sucked. Hard.

Sarcastically calling Syr's post vacuous or disagreeing with a mass lynch?

There are some setups that could certainly be broken with a mass claim, but if the game is already slightly scumsided with no protection roles, a mass claim can seal the game against town very quickly by pointing out optimal NKs, of which there are probably several.

Varsoon, if you expect 112 to be a reaction test, why point that out straight away?

!vote Varsoon

@MM: last time mod said he does prefer bold votes though.

[serrapaladin]

Sarcastically calling Syr's post vacuous or disagreeing with a mass lynch?

I think you mean mass claim. And I wouldn't have to make vacuous posts if people wouldn't keep being deliberately obtuse about the phrase "treating this as mountainous."

Pedit, case in fucking point.

Yeah...mass lynching is probably not the best of ideas

My criticism wasn't directed at your "treating this as mountainous". (I see what you mean by that, but I think without flips you should treat every D1 more or less the same, so I don't see the point of mentioning it.) What I was getting at was how you didn't want to take a stance about mass claiming, but mentioned it anyways. It struck me as somewhat odd, so I decided to make a flippant comment about it.


I don't see what's wrong with VM or UT. The latter needs to start making posts longer than 10 words, but he's not the only one. Hyperbole is not necessarily a scumtell.

You've never reaction tested a possible reaction test?

No actually. If I recognized a reaction test, I let it play out... I don't really like Varsoon so far.


@BB: regarding your 3 VT comment, this is a Wacky test-setup from KK's last game:
(12:42:17 AM) XylBot: (notice) [wacky] mafia: Mafioso, Voteblocker; mafia-ally: Inventor in Training; sk: Nightmare; town: Roleblocker, Mystery Role (Monolith), Voteblocker, Eavesdropper, Townie (x5)

Also, what's with your Mac comment? Why should there be scum on your wagon this early and why Mac?

[serrapaladin]

what are your exact thoughts about Sharper, Varsoon and Syry?

Syryana seems town. Sharper bothers me a bit, but there's not really enough to go off yet. Varsoon looks scummy.

If you think that one of the active players is scum, you should give us something. Not a possibility, as that's fake.

I'm not sure I get what you mean with the 'fake' part. Also, please explain your UT vote (which, btw, I'm not sure counts, being on one line with the unvote).

Shos is likely town.

[serrapaladin]

[serrapaladin]

Are we honestly not going to talk about Parama's derphammer? I can't find any comparably derpy play from him recently and with 100+ completed games I would hope that's not common for him.

!vote Parama

What was with the certainty Varsoon would flip town? Really don't like the fact that you're trying to paint your vote as positive in any way, shape or form. You should have read the game regardless of whether there'd been a hammer or not.

The wagon had already been driven to L-1. If you were so sure Varsoon was town, that should have been equally useful in gathering reads from. Your flurry of posts after your hammer looks a lot like you trying to talk yourself out of/smokescreening any blame for the hammer. I don't buy shos-scum, nor do I see why you'd think he'd be killed last night.

BB, why so selective in how you apply your sig?

[serrapaladin]

Do you have a link of him accidentally quickhammering, or doing something equally derpy?

[serrapaladin]

Yeah, seriously, can someone explain these shos votes to me? UT's is worst...

Para, BB is probably not a jester. I don't know whether you're trolling with that, or not, but at the moment it just looks as though you're trying to keep votes off BB for no obvious reason.

[serrapaladin]

[serrapaladin]

Well I can 100% guarantee you that BB isn't mafia in this game, or even a harmful third. He's either town or jester, so lynching him is bad.

And I liked you before but your stubborn insistence to not logic is baffling

BB is not a bad player, there's no way he's transparent enough for you to make that statement. I don't have a scumread on him, but I see no logical reason to give him a town-pass. I also still haven't seen a compelling case against shos, so you can attack my logic all you want and risk me completely ignoring you, or you can start using some hard logic yourself. Also, what have you done around here for people to not find derp-hammers by you suspicious?

!unvote

The unlyncher thing was a surely a joke. Rufflig, mind explaining your thoughts about Syr?

[serrapaladin]

I would, but people here are insisting that's par for the course...

[serrapaladin]

Well, no.

[serrapaladin]

Why?

The BP thing I'm happy to ignore, but aside from that I've made similar points against Para. Rather than just insisting shos is scum, I dislike how Para refuses to explain why shos is scum.

Only reason I'm not voting Para is because people are insisting he does that as town.

[serrapaladin]

Huh, fairly new town seeing non-standard RVS as scummy is quite common though.

Parama's massive wall basically has shos scum for allegedly taking stuff too literal, calling out lurkers, not scumhunting and voting Varsoon. The first two points are non-tells, the third is less true than for many others (like UT) and Varsoon was wagoned to L-1 before he got derp-hammered. The Varsoon wagon was bad in hindsight, but I see worse votes on it than shos' (PimHel/UT).

Actually, I think I'll

!vote Untrod_Tripod

[serrapaladin]

Not defending you Syr, just calling PimHel's point bad. Why aren't you pointing out that VM is 'defending' me?

Good luck, BB. I remember that pain :/

[serrapaladin]

your puppet Voided

<3

[serrapaladin]

But seriously, that's an awful vote.

[serrapaladin]

!vote Syryana

[serrapaladin]

BB and Para are way too obvious to be scumbuddies...

[serrapaladin]

Not sure if bad phoneposting or drunk.

To be fair, Para, this game is pretty dead... I still disagree on shos, but Syry would be a good wagon.

Also, are you sure BB isn't scum?

[serrapaladin]

275 to 280.

Calling his attack on my alleged defense of him a 'reaction test' after VM attacked it reeks of backpedaling. Then he votes Voided and unvotes after I call the vote bad.

Also, of the Varsoon votes, his was among the worst.

[serrapaladin]

So first you only mention Parama for his vote on Varsoon, then after some time you mention me and UT as bad votes and now Syry?
Seriously?

Para's hammered, your and UT's position are objectively the most worrying, and I find Syr's vote bad in light of his recent voting.

[serrapaladin]

where am I defending Molla
he's jester
don't lynch him because in xylbot I'm pretty sure jester lynch ends game (could check but)
the end

Are you being serious?

[serrapaladin]

as always.

Umm, our last Xylbot had two two-man teams...

Also, the obligatory: "depends on what, Para?"

[serrapaladin]

I'm starting to think scumslip from shos. Last Xylbot AND most testsetups posted here and last game have 2+2 scum...

!vote shos

[serrapaladin]

BB, what do you think of Para insisting you're a jester?

[serrapaladin]

I honestly don't see much difference between UT and Para. UT feels equally disconnected, and Para has the derphammer to be held against him.

[serrapaladin]

Nah, then we might as well lynch shos.

[serrapaladin]

Nah, I don't really see UT. I could go for Syr, but shos is fine.

[serrapaladin]

Voided, did the ability gifted to you by shos do anything verifiably useful? Did it work?

Why would a scum inventor tarfet townies

trips me up a bit, as scum can't be normal inventors, and if his role is the normal inventor, he should know that.

UT looks very much like the town type of not giving a shit and his attackers are being pretty opportunistic. I don't really see Para/BB together, but either one of them, or them on separate teams is quite likely if shos is town.

[serrapaladin]

Man, I really don't think so... If he were lurking scum, I'd think he'd make it more active. He's not even trying to look as though he's participating. If this game were any larger, I'd agree with a PL, but we don't really have the time for that.

If not shos, I'd go for Syry.

[serrapaladin]

UT has hardly said anything game relevant so far, so in a bigger game I'd consider utility/policy lynching him. I do think he's town, though, so I don't really want him dead.

Will you have any way of knowing whether your ability did what it was supposed to (to check whether he might be the mafia inventor type)?

[serrapaladin]

...Care to give posthumous reasoning, Syr?

First lynch Untrod.
If scum, attack Serra for his quick change on Untrod or Rufflig for trying to force-replacing Untrod, while Untrod is now at his peak in activity.
If town, which I doubt, Serra is still a good option for faking reads.

So leave Syry alone.

So I'm scum for my quick change if he's scum and I'm scum for my fake read if he's town? My initial vote on Untrod was mostly because he was being useless, but given we're down to 10, probably with a good 5 non-town role, I thought better of it. Syry and shos have both been objectively more scummy. Best case, Untrod is town who doesn't really care about the game. Worst case, he's the actual jester or something and wants to get himself lynched. Either way, I don't like his lynch at all.

!xmafia replace wind-up

[serrapaladin]

Untrod's play really doesn't make any sense at all as scum. He's literally refusing to contribute, and being pretty obvious about it. That play just screams apathetic townie (or jester), while as scum I would expect the lurking to be more active and less abrasive. This way, he's blatantly lurking AND drawing attention to himself, which I just don't see from scum. I guess there's the off-chance that he's scum gambitting being read as jester, but I doubt it.

[serrapaladin]

Tierce is pretty cool.

Pushing a policy lynch? On

page 1

? This is pretty transparently bad play. Possible jester? I originally thought so. Now we have two possible jesters, both on page 1. Interesting.

Yeah, because using policy as an RVS reason is just "transparently bad".

Both Syr and shos are pushing BB/Para as scum together. My guess is, it's Syr, shos and either BB or Para (probably the latter). I refuse to believe a BB/Para pairing.

Welcome, Tierce.

Damn it, Tierce. I've been trying to tone down my towniness so I could make it further into the games more often. Looks like I'm still a fairly easy alignment read, though. Oh well.

So this guy is third party? I doubt he's scum, but third party sounds about right.

The Para selfvote just screams gambit....

Post 149 was the kind of :effort: crap Parama pulls as scum. I was fine with the hammer coming from him, but the following post was really really bad. Post 315 is equally bad. You want to see someone who clearly believes you are scum? /)U^.^U/) (\U^.^U(\

not meta.

Also, you seem to be funneling her points about how you play as "meta" in general and aren't actually trying to differentiate the points...which is a problem of the strawmanistic kind (screw you all, I just made a new word). Just because the points fall under the "meta" label doesn't absolve you of having to answer them.

P-EDIT: Which is still not a reason to look for them.

Why would you pick the least specific part of Tierce's case to point out? The lines you quoted are just stating how bad Para is, which doesn't constitute a case, meta or otherwise. (btw Para, you know that 1st, 2nd line etc. depends on your screen resolution and text size, right? For me that was all one line.)

[serrapaladin]

Given his last two posts by shos, I'm more inclined to believe he's town. I don't think the normal inventor role exists for scum, shos. It should say which alignments your role can be in your role PM.

!unvote

From Syr trying to tie BB and Para together as a scumteam, I get the impression he's scum with one of them and wants to ensure a mislynch when his scumbuddy gets lynched. The same could sort of apply to shos, as well, but I think Syr is scummier on his own.

With Rufflig's reply to Tierce's comment about how obvtown he is, I sort of got the vibe he's third party who is playing a town game. I don't often see town replying to comments about how town they look.

Para, you should probably claim.

I think we could learn a lot by lynching Para, but the selfvote worries me... I'm still not sure whether it's a ballsy gambit or whether he actually is town trying to move the game forward. I highly doubt he's a jester, as shos suggested.

I'll give more detailed reads later today or tomorrow.

[serrapaladin]

Syr, are you honestly calling a post that calls you scum with either Para or BB fencesitting?

I am honestly unsure about what the hell Para is doing, but given he's at L-1 and refuses to claim or unvote himself, I'd be tempted to hammer.

I'll give in-depth reads first, when I find some time, though. I really don't know why PimHel is calling be out on that so much more than for example Voided or BB, but I'm happy to oblige.

[serrapaladin]

Bah, 554 is fake as fuck.

[serrapaladin]

Bah, 554 is fake as fuck.

[serrapaladin]

It seems my gambit did not work as well as I had hoped.

It's pretty unlikely that there's only one non-town directed kill, plus Para's reaction to the fakehammer looked pretty fake, so Para is a good lynch. I still think he's scum with Syr (or maybe shos), but worst case he's an SK.

!vote Parama

Back to L-1.

[serrapaladin]

Sorry for my lack of activity, I've had a bigger workload over the last week than I thought I would.

I still think Parama, if not scum, is much more likely to be an SK than a vig.

Regarding OS' wall:

The eyeroll was acknowledging Varsoon's hypocrisy of complaining about eyerolls being mean, but then calling us assholes for lynching him.

In 233 I unvoted Para, because enough people had confirmed the derp-hammer is common behaviour. I sarcastically mentioned what a horrible town-meta that is to have...

What was the purpose of asking whether I've played with BB? I think this is our third game together, and nowhere has his play been transparent enough to justify Para's certainty about BB being either town or jester.

Your comment about my level of contribution is rich given the slot you switched in to.

The comment about Rufflig being third party was more gut than anything else. I think a survivor would be more likely to respond to being called obvtown than town, and I really don't see Rufflig as scum.


Para, what's wrong with VM not wanting to hammer you YET?

[serrapaladin]

Yo Tierce, why point out OS' softclaim?

Scumreads are Syr and shos.

VM, what happened with your nightaction? I doubt there are two mafia-allies, so if he's an actual inventor, he's basically town.

Scummy stuff Syr has done:

• Considering the game mountainous when people were talking about roles.
  
• Random OMGUS vote of Rufflig.
  
• Wanting to lynch Para while he was afk.
  
• Pointing suspicion at me for defending him, when I was attacking Rufflig's post.
  
• Backpedaling on that attack, calling it a reaction test, and voting Voided for allegedly ruining the reaction test. His VM vote was just a cheap attempt to sell the idea that he was actually reaction testing.
  
• Voting UT for lack of content (which is not necessarily alignment indicative) and being on the Varsoon wagon (which Syr was, too).
  
• Not posting in pseudo-twilight when Para was fakehammered.
  
• His entire case on me relies on me asking questions that haven't led to me finding scum, when he hasn't been doing any better. He literally only quotes a few of my posts, without any indication of why they're bad...

Mafia-ally means a single 2-man scum team (see Katsuki's massive list of test-setups), so I think it's Syr/shos. Going through Syr's ISO, he doesn't direct a single post at shos, nor gives any justification for his read at all, he just votes shos twice. 589 references his scumread on shos, which he never gave any indication of, except by temporarily voting him twice.

[serrapaladin]

!vote Syryana

I'm pretty sure it's not MyLo, so that should be fine.

[serrapaladin]

I didn't see that setup, Rufflig, but the vast majority have 2 scum, so it's fairly unlikely we're in MyLo. Is there any way to find out whether mafia-ally knows who scum are? I would have thought he doesn't have any more knowledge than a townie, in which case him targeting Syr and him choosing last night to first use his skill don't mean anything. At the very least it's fair to say that scum didn't know what Pim was.

Voided, can you confirm shos?

[serrapaladin]

VM: Last night. Did you use whatever he gave you?

[serrapaladin]

...and?

[serrapaladin]

Because if he's a normal Inventor, he's town (as I don't think we can have 2 mafia-allies), but if he's a Malfunctioning Inventor, he can be scum.

I don't care what you got, I care about whether it worked as intended. If he's Malfunctioning, you would still get an ability, but it wouldn't do what it says on the tin.

[serrapaladin]

But why would Pim target Syr over someone more obviously town like Rufflig or Tierce, if all he wanted was to block a town vote?

[serrapaladin]

*non-scum

[serrapaladin]

What are you on about, VM? Pim was a Mafia-ally. That means he wins with scum, so he will want to damage town.

[serrapaladin]

Well BB just said so, but I am fairly sure a mafia-ally would win with the mafia...

[serrapaladin]

I'd vote, but I can't.

||| MAFIABOT || serrapaladin - 1 (Syryana) |||

lolwut?

@mod: is that VC correct?

[serrapaladin]

k

[serrapaladin]

Syry is scummier.

Didn't Voided clear you? Why are you voting him?

[serrapaladin]

But why would scum-VM clear you? Unless of course you're both scum...

[serrapaladin]

Did you use your ability last night?

[serrapaladin]

Yeah, I missed where you said that earlier, shos.

Tierce, I still think Pim would have targeted a townread of his, as even if he had survived, it would have been pretty unlikely for the vote-block to have been associated with him. I also think his townread was entirely wrong.

[serrapaladin]

A quick check of Tenements shows three prods for scum-Syry...

[serrapaladin]

Yo Rufflig, why am I scum?

Tierce's "he doesn't care enough to be scum" read on Syr is bad. Syr is still scum, maybe even with Tierce.

[serrapaladin]

Voided could have only condemned shos, who is scummy independent of his claim. I highly doubt scum-shos would kill Voided, as Pim was under much less suspicion, and Voided's death would implicate shos. It's pretty silly that you had to come up with the hypothetical that scum thought Pim was a day-cop for your musings to make sense.

I didn't stop to consider whether you might be a survivor. It was rather that that was the first thing that came to my mind after your odd affirmation of how townie you are, so I posted it. I wasn't probing the waters, as I see no reason to want a survivor lynched, nor have I indicated that I do. You're obviously not an SK, but I suppose there is the off-chance you're an arsonist.

Windup had been absent for ages (enough to get him replaced in any normal game), so I felt he should be replaced. UT hadn't been inactive, only useless, and I disagree with force-replacing someone because people would like someone better. The fact that you're trying to draw a connection between me and Tierce because I agreed to replace her absent predecessor is pretty bad. You're not scum after all, are you?

I am ever so sorry about considering real life > this game, but you might want to hold others to the same standard, as this game isn't really buzzing with activity. BB hasn't made a single comment about Syry's play all game, yet is voting him. Syry is owing a case on me, and Tierce still hasn't given a real line of argument as to why Syry isn't scum.

[serrapaladin]

Wow that case was bad. I might respond to it in full when I don't have a flight to catch in a few hours and haven't slept in ages, but a few quick comments:

All the "inconsistencies" you point out are either gross misinterpretations on your part or progressions on my part.

I haven't been rolefishing at all. I explicitly said that I DON'T want to know about WHAT happened, just WHETHER something happened or not. I wanted to see whether there's any evidence that shos might be a Malfunctioning Inventor.

The meta point about Tenements was in response to Tierce's assertion that Syry is too disengaged to be scum. I wouldn't classify someone who gets 3 prods (and has a pretty low postcount for surviving to endgame) in his most recent scum-game as very engaged as scum. Extensive metaing is obviously part of Tierce's play style, and I'm wondering whether she might have intended to defend Syry now that he might actually get lynched by using incomplete/incorrect meta under the assumption that no one would check (not a huge stretch given this town). Call it simplistic if you will, but activity isn't a particularly nuanced matter, and Tierce's statement was demonstrably incorrect.

Rufflig, are you being serious about not coming up with a better explanation? You know that people can lie, right? There is no way of knowing whether shos actually targeted Pim last night. If anything, it's a bit convenient that shos' target also happened to be the NK target. Why does Syry/shos not make sense? Please ISO Syry and look for mentions of shos. He's making the classic mistake of completely ignoring his scumbuddy. shos sending 1 role at town-voided to confirm himself and the second one at his scumbuddy, while claiming to have targeted the NK target, makes sense. I don't know how exactly the Malfunctioning Inventor works, but I would assume that the chance of a single use on a townie confirming his as Malfunctioning is rather slim. In terms of being above suspicion, Pim was as good a target as any, so I could see why Syry/shos would choose him.

I'm not interested in you claiming, as I don't particularly want you lynched. I am rather trying to figure out why you're so convinced that I'm scum. If you're a survivor, you don't actually have any interest in lynching scum, so that would make the most sense to me. I can assure you I'm not scum, and if you are town, you should be voting Syry with me instead.

Voided, I meant that in terms of "you cannot CONFIRM shos' role, you can either DENY or NOT DENY."

So yeah, Syry/shos makes the most sense, and if there is a third, it's probably Tierce.

[serrapaladin]

Wow, Syry is keen to get me lynched. I've never seen town-Syry like this...

What about your post should I have reread, Rufflig? I don't care about you claiming as Syry is a much better lynch, and I doubt you're his partner. Then, you haven't given any indication as to why shos/Syry doesn't make sense. shos being scum without Voided does make sense. He will want to send 1 ability to a townie, to confirm his role. Any further ones would be too risky, so he would either send them to his teammate (Syry), or not send them at all. That's why he claimed to have targeted Pim... It's not as though he crumbed it or anything, he just retroactively decided to claim Pim was his target.

[serrapaladin]

I'm saying it's telling that Syry is suddenly so aggressively sure of a scumread, when he is the only other viable lynch. Compare his current tone to that of 478 or something. I'm pretty sure this isn't MyLo, so we have a lynch in hand.

[serrapaladin]

You like meta right, Tierce? Try this and tell me more about how this is town-Syry...

[serrapaladin]

Don't do what Syry-scum wants! I wish I had more time to rip apart his case, but I really don't. Syry, have you read my response to Rufflig's case?

Also, Syr definitely didn't use the same tone earlier as he did in the posts attacking me. This isn't me mudslinging, this is Syry throwing everything he has at me to protect himself. Tierce is back to using false-meta to defend her scumbuddy, so I'm thinking Rufflig might actually be right about shos, and it's Syry/Tierce instead.

[serrapaladin]

Yes, because tone is by far the hardest part of a post to fake. His wall towards Parama was perhaps equally long, but didn't have the same urgency as he does now.

[serrapaladin]

Rufflig, I called you third party way before you started calling me scum. I'm flattered, but I don't tend to proactively discredit people that might grow suspicious of me in the future. Perhaps "corroborated" would have been a better word for what Voided did for shos. If shos is really town, he should count the fact that Voided confirmed having received a role in his favour. And I would say that between the role actually working and Voided not finding out it Malfunctioned, sending a single Malfunctioning ability to a townie is a calculated risk I'd be willing to take. I never said I thought the shos/VM pairing was likely, I just said the only way VM is scum is with shos. The reason I'm moving away from shos is because Tierce has been defending Syry pretty strongly after calling him scum yesterday.

I need to stop reading Syry's posts. All the vicious misrepping is not good for my blood pressure. I really hope it's not three scum, so if you guys mislynch me you can still quicklynch Syry/Tierce to win this.

[serrapaladin]

Bah, I don't really know what I'm doing anyways, so go ahead and hammer if you want.

I'm an Alien (Survivor) and I abducted PimHel N1 and Voided N2. I originally did that so Voided's failing action would implicate shos, there'd be a chain of lynches and I could survive to endgame. I honestly have no idea why Voided claims his action worked. Either I was blocked or Voided is lying.

I have no idea who's scum, although if it's not Voided/shos my next best guess is actually Syry/Tierce. I really don't like playing survivor, so I tried to sort of stall my way to endgame. Unless someone blocked me, go ahead and lynch one of Voided/shos and you'll see I'm telling the truth.

[serrapaladin]

VOTE: shos

[serrapaladin]

It's basically a jailkeeper if I understand it correctly. I targeted Pim N1, which must have stopped his voteblock and Voided N2, so whatever ability shos gave him couldn't have worked.

!xmafia help Alien

[serrapaladin]

I don't see how that makes this MyLo. I don't count towards a scum majority, nor do I know who scum is. If it comes to the point that scum claims and asks me to vote with them, I'd rather win with town instead.

I forgot that Varsoon was a Roleblocker, so in that case it's almost certainly Voided/shos. I see no reason for Voided to lie for shos unless they're scum together. I understand my credibility problem, but I genuinely did abduct Voided. Syry was a good mislynch target at the start of the Day, so I didn't claim anything then.

[serrapaladin]

But that's the thing: I can't. I have no idea who they are, and if we mislynch at 2/6 scum left, there's nothing stopping scum from just nightkilling me for the unshared victory. I literally have no incentive to vote with scum unless it's LyLo, and even then I'd rather win with town. Lynching me will take you to actual MyLo.

[serrapaladin]

Also, yes, I got an ability, though I'd have to look it up in PMs.

Will you have any way of knowing whether your ability did what it was supposed to (to check whether he might be the mafia inventor type)?

VM: Last night. Did you use whatever he gave you?

!vote Voided

I really don't see a reason for him to lie except to protect shos.

[serrapaladin]

If a win condition can be attained by counting the survivor as a member of some faction, then it will be attained. You don't even need to know who is in the faction.

Are you sure about this? If true, that would be pretty shit :/

@mod: if, at the break of dawn, there are 3 townies, 2 mafiosi and 1 survivor alive, does the mafia automatically win?
!xmafia help Survivor

[serrapaladin]

Voided: When I asked you about being able to confirm on D2 you said you had to check your PM. Surely if you'd actually used it N1 you'd have known it to work. Also, how would that even work? Aren't night actions resolved at the end of the night? If it's intended for you to use on the same night, that's a pretty bad system as shos could have waited until DL to submit his action.

[serrapaladin]

I highly doubt that's possible.

Night actions are resolved at the end of the night for a reason. Are you saying if shos had been roleblocked the success of the roleblock depends on whether it is submitted before or after his inventor action?

[serrapaladin]

Rufflig, do you really think I would set up my scumbuddy like that?

When shos first claimed inventor I already intended to use my ability to block Voided so as to implicate shos. That's why D2 I was so interested in the ability shos gave him and whether he could confirm shos. For your theory about us to make sense, we would have had to plan his sacrifice N1, which is entirely far-fetched.

Voided, if you allegedly didn't use shos' skill last night but N1, did you use another skill last night that I blocked?

[serrapaladin]

The way I understood it, and the only way it really makes sense, was that you confirmed to HAVE RECEIVED an ability from shos N1 and USED that ability N2.

I've already admitted that I was acting anti-town. I was playing to my wincon, so I was trying to cause a chain of events that would lead to people except me getting lynched. I didn't know what to do when Voided didn't claim to have been blocked last night, so I jumped on the Syry wagon. Unfortunately, my trying to lurk my way to endgame backfired and almost got me lynched.

I am almost certain Voided either didn't have an ability at all, so didn't notice he was blocked, or was blocked but didn't want to claim. With my claim, he could have vehemently insisted on having used it last night to get me lynched, but then my flip would have completely incriminated him. Instead he decided to try and claim he used it N1 instead.

[serrapaladin]

Hey serra.

In post 959, serrapaladin wrote:
But that's the thing: I can't. I have no idea who they are, and if we mislynch at 2/6 scum left, there's nothing stopping scum from just nightkilling me for the unshared victory. I literally have no incentive to vote with scum unless it's LyLo, and even then I'd rather win with town. Lynching me will take you to actual MyLo.

How do you know what MYLO is?

Add to that: How do you know 2 scum are left?

2 scum is by far the most common setup with a mafia-ally (I linked a whole bunch of test-setups earlier). Rufflig did find 1 setup with 3 scum + ally, but particularly with a survivor, I'm almost certain it has to be 2. Then, I was under the impression that if it's 3 town, 2 scum and me, the game wouldn't end as scum don't have a majority. Hence we'd only be in MyLo if we mislynch today. Rufflig however claims that I can count towards the scum-majority, hence that it is MyLo. I've asked the mod, but I'm not sure if he'll answer.

[serrapaladin]

But surely if there are 2 scum, 3 town and me, I am alive with TWO other factions, and neither has individually achieved their wincon?

[serrapaladin]

Also, I'm like 90% sure I've seen LyLo between 1 town, 1 survivor, and 1 scum, where the survivor was basically a kingmaker.

[serrapaladin]

2 scum, 1 town, and me is definitely a scum victory, and I would win with them if I understand it correctly. What I'm not sure about is 2 scum, 2 town + survivor. If I vote with town, which I would, town can still win, but Rufflig claims that's game over and scum wins.

[serrapaladin]

Best I can find is this logged IRC Xylbot game, which has a 3p endgame between a mafioso, a survivor and a townie. The game doesn't end automatically, but the survivor had to vote with one of the factions to end the game.

I'm pretty sure that means Rufflig is wrong.

[serrapaladin]

My story is quite clear, even if parts of it don't make sense.

[serrapaladin]

I understand what you're trying to say, but it indeed DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. An ability doesn't just use itself during the day.

[serrapaladin]

Rufflig, are you actually claiming friendly neighbour? How the hell did this not cross your mind at any point before now?

[serrapaladin]

Are you saying you did receive the message that Ruff is town?

[serrapaladin]

Huh, where did you dig those out from? I had suspected something like that, but whether shos would have known is then a different question.

Given all the partial stuff that's been revealed, I would agree that a massclaim seems like a good idea, but then my opinion doesn't really count :/

I am still sort of hesitant to believe this whole thing was just a mixture of derp and coincidence. It only came out because I claimed to have blocked Voided, so it all just seems like too much coincidence.

[serrapaladin]

!xmafia unvote

I'm not sure if I'd agree about this making Voided and shos probtown, but it does basically take me back to square one.

Tierce, why BB rather than Syry?

[serrapaladin]

Oh, I wanted to share one more thing that I dug up.

If a Malfunctioning Inventor gives out an role it is one of the following:
Inspect: normal, naive, paranoid or 100% failure
Block: normal, 50% failure or 100% failure
Kill: normal, 50% failure or 100% failure
Protect: normal, 50% failure or 100% failure
Equal chances all around.

Apparently, it isn't always so easy to see if the inventor is malfunctioning or not.

The ability I received N1 from Shos is Psych

So does this actually mean that shos is conftown now? If Rufflig's sourcecode is correct, Malfunctioning Inventor couldn't have given out Psych.

If that's the case, I can't really see a situation in which both Voided and Syry are town.

[serrapaladin]

why do think that it's impossible for both of us to be town, and who would be scum?

Well perhaps not completely impossible, but I can't really see 2 of {Tierce, BB, OS} being scum. Rufflig is conftown and even though it's not certain, I think this makes shos town as well.

Particularly given we're at an odd number, I think Voided/ Syry is a good shout.

[serrapaladin]

OS is town because UT was town and the early VT claim wouldn't come from scum. Tierce/BB wouldn't randomly cross-bus, when there's no particular need.

Why would I care about getting the game back to odd numbers? Getting 2 for 1 lynches now won't make the game be over any sooner.

I'm not saying I could make a good case against either one of you, I just can't see a scenario in which neither one of you is scum.

[serrapaladin]

!vote Syryana

lynching him or Voided is functionally equivalent. I think that's L-1.

[serrapaladin]

lol wut?

[serrapaladin]

Jesus Christ I can't believe that claim worked.

To be fair, I did actually fuck with Voided with the intention of getting him/shos lynched, except I delayed him.

Dead QT is a fun read.

Lots of rage was had in our QT about Pim.

Tierce/OS can post it if they want.

Thanks for modding again, KK!

[serrapaladin]

<3

[serrapaladin]

k