Khan's Wacky Xylbot II Mafia (Mini 1441) (Game Over)

[Syryana]

I claim bulletproof.
Discuss.

He's clearly a jester.
VOTE: Voidedmafia

[Syryana]

VOTE: Syryana

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sharper

[Syryana]

Let's start over, Syryana. VOTE: Voidedmafia

lolwot?

Nah, they can't say that because you preemptively sneered at it. Now the Voidedmafia lynch can proceed unabated.

lolwot, version 2.

[Syryana]

I have no idea what sryv and Sharper are talking about.

I don't know what Sharper's talking about, hence the lolwots. I want him to explain wtf he's talking about.

[Syryana]

You can also ask the mod for possible setup variations with the command: "!xmafia testsetup Wacky 13". The mod will then respond with possible role generations for each time you ask.

Pedit: Why ask for that setup, BB? We're in a Wacky 13 setup.

[Syryana]

You can also ask the mod for possible setup variations with the command: "!xmafia testsetup Wacky 13". The mod will then respond with possible role generations for each time you ask.

Pedit: Why ask for that setup, BB? We're in a Wacky 13 setup.

So, I think I'm catching on. We're currently in a random setup out all the crazy setups that Xylbot has.
Is it up to us to deduce which setup we're in so that we have a better chance to find scum?

Not quite. The setup in use is "Wacky". The roles are randomised from all available roles in the "Wacky" setup. I don't think we can deduce what the exact setup is from testsetup queries, though.

[Syryana]

You can also ask the mod for possible setup variations with the command: "!xmafia testsetup Wacky 13". The mod will then respond with possible role generations for each time you ask.

Pedit: Why ask for that setup, BB? We're in a Wacky 13 setup.

I don't think it's wise to speak in absolutes like that.
We -might- be in a Wacky 13.
Keeping my eye on you.

Um, the title of the game thread says "Wacky".

[Syryana]

You could've been lied to, you could've been lied to about being lied to, or it could be complete truth.

This setup is so insane, I'm going to treat it as mountainous for the moment.

Need input from the

lurkers

not-so-talkative people.

[Syryana]

you should not treat this as mountainous, rather, it is much more likely that this is heavy with powers. it can also be unbalanced - see last game.

I am treating this as mountainous for the moment, as there are nearly infinite possible setups with infinite possible powers/combinations/whatever. Once more information is known about possible roles (e.g. night actions or mod-confirmed day actions) I will begin to consider various roles and their contributions. However, at this point we have 13 people in a forum. We've no idea what they are, nor have any of them done anything we can verify in terms of PRs. Therefore all I have to go on is analysis of reactions, hence my statement I will treat this as mountainous.

Yes, it is likely this is extremely power heavy, but none of them are relevant as of right now.

And after one day, we're talking about 'not-so-talkative' people ._. Bad ._.

Yes, wanting people to speak up in thread is bad.

[Syryana]

The first sentence was to you and Shos. Everything else was for Syry[something].
My point is that it's way too quick to mention who's part of the 'not-so-talkative' people.

I never mentioned who's part of the "not-so-talkative" people. I in no way stated that not being talkative is indicative of anything. I merely stated that I want "not-so-talkative" people to talk. If people don't talk, they can't be analyzed. Why are you making such a big deal of this?

[Syryana]

Wacky isn't necessarily bastard, I think - it's just swingy and PR heavy. If your role says VT, you're most likely a VT. I don't like Syryana's "treating this as mountainous". Care to elaborate, Syr?

I am treating this as mountainous for the moment, as there are nearly infinite possible setups with infinite possible powers/combinations/whatever. Once more information is known about possible roles (e.g. night actions or mod-confirmed day actions) I will begin to consider various roles and their contributions. However, at this point we have 13 people in a forum. We've no idea what they are, nor have any of them done anything we can verify in terms of PRs. Therefore all I have to go on is analysis of reactions, hence my statement I will treat this as mountainous.

Yes, it is likely this is extremely power heavy, but none of them are relevant as of right now.

Need I say more? Obviously my treatment of this game as mountainous will cease once we actually have some PR or night actions to work with. Read the thread.

Serra brought it to my attention that Varsoon has responded too heavily to the 'accusation' of sorta-lurking.

This is a pretty good point. I'm keeping my vote on Sharper for the moment though; dude completely ignored my questions from a couple pages ago.

[Syryana]

Vote: Sharper

He did get quiet all of a sudden. Plus he questioned why lynching town is a bad thing.

Also don't forget to put votes in proper format. Probably not a good idea to make the mod mad in a possible bastard game

[Syryana]

It's really not 'bastard' in the sense you're implying though. There are some non-standard roles, is all.

Ah. Misinterpreted the term bastard in this game's context then.

But I do agree it is of utmost importance we not no-lynch due to improper voting formatting.

[Syryana]

That does not matter. treating the game as mountainous is wrong even when you don't know which powers there are. you know that they exist, that's something.
either way - it shouldn't matter because you don't base your play on what you think people have as roles O_o;; or correct me if I'm wrong - do you have a different strategy for a mountainous?

PRs may or may not exist. If they do exist, they may or may not be able to do something during the day. Either way, it doesn't matter right now. For all intents and purposes, discussion on PRs right now is completely pointless. Therefore, I am going to ignore them, thus treating the game as mountainous, until such time as consideration of the PRs becomes relevant.

In short, stop wasting space talking about the f@#$ing power roles until we either massclaim or see some flips. The only thing this discussion will net us at the moment is a free way for scum to look industrious.

Pedit: The game may be balanced, but it most likely isn't. Either we can choose to massclaim or not.

[Syryana]

Sarcastically calling Syr's post vacuous or disagreeing with a mass lynch?

I think you mean mass claim. And I wouldn't have to make vacuous posts if people wouldn't keep being deliberately obtuse about the phrase "treating this as mountainous."

Pedit, case in fucking point.

[Syryana]

Between #124 and #133, I'm pretty happy with a Varsoon lynch. The "reaction testing a reaction test" reeked of BS and his defense in #133 (if you can call it that) was even worse.

!vote Varsoon

I believe that's L-3.

P-edit: L-2.

[Syryana]

!xmafia vote shos

[Syryana]

Also wrong vote format, Voided.

[Syryana]

!vote The Rufflig

Cause OMGUS.

[Syryana]

Let's lynch Parama while he's afk.

!vote Parama

[Syryana]

Let's lynch Parama while he's afk.

!vote Parama

...No. Not for that, anyways.

Well how bout for his bulletproof fakeclaim, his derphammer, his insistence that shos is mafia and his equal insistence that BB is town/jester?

[Syryana]

I would, but people here are insisting that's par for the course...

So, they're his scumbuddies. What's your point?

[Syryana]

Well how bout for his bulletproof fakeclaim, his derphammer, his insistence that shos is mafia and his equal insistence that BB is town/jester?

Why is his insistence on this bad? Do you find Shos town?

Why do you think he's insisting it?

It feels like a bus. And no.

His reasoning on Molla being a jester is horrifying.

[Syryana]

That's what I get for posting sleepy :S
@Syry
Why not go for the player with more votes when you think both are scummy?

Because at this point I'm more interested in information than a lynch.

[Syryana]

Hey serra, why are you defending me?

[Syryana]

His last couple posts gave me an off vibe. In the first he asks why I'm scummy for suspecting Parama when he suspects Parama for similar reasons. In the second he says "fairly new town seeing non-standard RVS as scummy is quite common though." Maybe defense isn't the right word, but the serra I know wouldn't be letting me slide just because I'm new or because I am thinking the same way he is.

[Syryana]

Not defending you Syr, just calling PimHel's point bad. Why aren't you pointing out that VM is 'defending' me?

Good luck, BB. I remember that pain :/

I was waiting until after you responded to attempt to salvage whatever was left of my reaction test after your puppet Voided shat all over it.

!vote Voided

[Syryana]

But seriously, that's an awful vote.

I know. I was just grumpy with Voided for killing it.

!unvote

Now I need to get off my ass and remember what the hell is going on with this game.

[Syryana]

!vote Untrod Tripod

No content whatsoever, was also on Varsoon wagon.

[Syryana]

if you think that was an attack, just wait til I see what I do to Jenny

!unvote, !vote Varsoon

Between #124 and #133, I'm pretty happy with a Varsoon lynch. The "reaction testing a reaction test" reeked of BS and his defense in #133 (if you can call it that) was even worse.

!vote Varsoon

I believe that's L-3.

P-edit: L-2.

What a comparison. I don't care that you were on the wagon, I care because I don't know why you were on the wagon.

Alright then, what do you think of shos/Parama?

PEdit: Does UT have a history of yelling at people to stop being dumbasses, Molla?

Pedit2: You killed my reaction test, Voided.

[Syryana]

Not sure if bad phoneposting or drunk.

To be fair, Para, this game is pretty dead... I still disagree on shos, but Syry would be a good wagon.

Also, are you sure BB isn't scum?

When and why did you decide I'm scum, serra?

[Syryana]

In the interest of getting somewhere with this game:

!vote shos

[Syryana]

You rang, Ruff?

[Syryana]

I'm cool with voting for a DL. Or just lynching shos/UT. Whichever way.

[Syryana]

!vote Untrod Tripod

[Syryana]

He's not dead yet

[Syryana]

!xmafia replace Wind-up

[Syryana]

Will deal with this game in a bit. Welcome in, Tierce!

[Syryana]

First off:

!unvote Untrod Tripod

I will be publishing a series of posts, the first of which will be about BBMolla/Parama.

[Syryana]

Alrighty, BBMolla and Parama. These two are a scumteam and I'm going to be analyzing posts from both.

The initial post from Parama is rather silly (I originally thought he might be a jester) where he claims bulletproof. Molla's posts are quite fluffy in the beginning, until we get to:

VOTE: Monkeyman

Policy

Pushing a policy lynch? On page 1? This is pretty transparently bad play. Possible jester? I originally thought so. Now we have two possible jesters, both on page 1. Interesting.
[spoiler="Fluff 'n Stuff]

too lazy to be serious

vote: Voided

because omgus

I totally forgot how Xylbot works lol <.<

If I wasn't policy lynching Monkey I'd be voting UT right now for pointing out stupidly obvious things.

If I wasn't policy lynching Monkey I'd be voting UT right now for pointing out stupidly obvious things.

pointing out the obvious is a scumtell now?

If you're UT yes

Jesus this could be so potentially bastard it's ridiculous.

Wish I was scum this game, claiming one of these ridiculous ass roles would be a blast.

[/spoiler]
Now we've got more fluff and bad play from both Parama

and

Molla. Parama doesn't care enough except to OMGUS Voided, Molla clinging to his ridiculous policy lynch even though he apparently finds UT scummy and claiming to be town (#64). Huh. What else do we have from these two:

Spoiler: More bad posting, mostly Molla

okay
someone point me to the posts that aren't setup nonsense
I only care about those

hint: setup speculation is totally useless in a randomly generated potentially bastard setup

hint: setup speculation is totally useless in a randomly generated potentially bastard setup

Determining the approximate of xylbot is relevent.

I'm done now obv, got everything we can imo

Lynch Monkey dood

Thoughts on mass claim?

okay
someone point me to the posts that aren't setup nonsense
I only care about those

hint: setup speculation is totally useless in a randomly generated potentially bastard setup

Btw Parama this post is shit and is as useless as setup spec

Wacky isn't necessarily bastard, I think - it's just swingy and PR heavy. If your role says VT, you're most likely a VT.

Absolutely wrong, pay attention.

Why are we PLing monkeyman?

He's Monkeyman

Monkey calls someone out for lurking after they say they're going to lurk

Please lynch Monkey, I'm gonna make campaign banners and everything

The jester vibes from Molla are now unbelievably strong.

Still

on the Monkey PL, advocating massclaim on day 1, all sorts of nonsense. Parama's post was pretty bad too, declaiming setup speculation but not offering his own opinions nor providing a better avenue for discussion.

Spoiler: Molla is so bad

If we have more than 3 VT claims somebody is lying.

Serra is scum btw.

Post 110 sucked. Hard.

Vote me then

You gotta bold it

FTR Voided sucks at reading me.

I take back my serra scumread, his way of speaking pings my scumdar for some reason, this is the second game that's happened.

I don't really feel like Policy Lynching Monkey anymore I'm just gonna let him slip his alignment on his own.

*rereads shit*

Oh yeah

!vote UT

!xmafia votes

Mac is probably the scum on me atm

What a bad wagon

Take it back

Molla is literally glomping us over the head with badness this game. What's his motivation? If he was actually a jester, would he really be going so over-the-top with the "I'm a jester" performance? Hmm. Then we have Parama's derp-hammer at #145, which has been discussed to death. I will, however, take Parama's #149 apart. I'm going to delete some of it for brevity; a lot of it is pretty irrelevant.

Spoiler: Parama's edited #149

...
Molla.
What happened? Your play is crap. You're only just now policy voting, though he hasn't posted yet, and you have posted prior to this? What the hell were you dillydallying for?

If I wasn't policy lynching Monkey I'd be voting UT right now for pointing out stupidly obvious things.

You don't play this shallow and you know it

Nah, they can't say that because you preemptively sneered at it. Now the Voidedmafia lynch can proceed unabated.

!vote Sharper

You broke out the L word way too fast.

That's not the reason why Sharper is scum, but your vote is appreciated. Sorry for hammering you.

If I wasn't policy lynching Monkey I'd be voting UT right now for pointing out stupidly obvious things.

pointing out the obvious is a scumtell now?

If you're UT yes

I'm glad you apparently hate me, it means I can just brush off your rage because I'm 100% sure you're third party. Don't make sense with my scum pairing but you can't possibly be town.

okay
someone point me to the posts that aren't setup nonsense
I only care about those

hint: setup speculation is totally useless in a randomly generated potentially bastard setup

Btw Parama this post is shit and is as useless as setup spec

Nice. Discrediting. You still haven't done anything useful in the game up to this point.
Also Varsoon wagoned formed on a newbtell. Sorry for hammering. He's town. Unfortunately, since that means ya'll are gonna rage at me for hammering.
I think I'm going to give serra points for not voting him in 86.

Monkey calls someone out for lurking after they say they're going to lurk

Please lynch Monkey, I'm gonna make campaign banners and everything

That doesn't make it excusable
In fact
It makes it justified

That you're pushing it as policy, and not scummy, though, is what really makes me think you're scum.

...oh. holy carps. Molla is totally jester. Carry on.
I get it. The especially aggressiveness, the noticeable ignorance, it's like scummy without being too obvious, except it is apparently too obvious since I see through it or something? I dunno either way Molla is officially jester and I'm moving on

Serra is scum btw.

10/10 would vig again

Vote me then

...Your plan is brilliant. You are a jester acting like a mafia acting like a jester. Beautiful.
okay maybe I shouldn't ignore Voided completely but I wouldn't o so far as to call him town yet

FTR Voided sucks at reading me.

ftr more discrediting
I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time reading your posts anymore, they don't matter, but I guess I just had to say it

Yeah I'm vigging Parama

COME AT ME BRO

oh wait
you don't have a vig
tough luck

I cut out all the nonsense about shos and UT. However, even after I cut those parts out, I found that well over half that huge "catchup post" was dedicated purely to BBMolla. Why is Parama spending so much time on Molla? About halfway through the post Parama "realizes" that Molla is the jester. Even after realizing that, Parama continues to analyze Molla's posts, even going so far as to call Molla a "jester pretending to be a mafia pretending to be a jester". My, Parama is spending a hell of a lot of time pointing out that Molla is a jester, isn't he? Too much time. He could have accomplished that by saying "k, Molla's jester". Instead, we have 3/4 of a huge massive wall dedicated to showing Molla is a jester. That's when I realized: Molla is in fact

not

a jester, he's scum with Parama.

Two things stood out to lead me to this conclusion: Molla's overdone "I'm a jester" routine and Parama's equally overdone analysis of Molla's jesterhood. Why would a jester, whose wincon dictates they be lynched, play so blatantly badly in a game where the possibility of there being a jester is known? If the town knows there might be a jester, and there's a person acting ridiculously scummy, why on earth would the town ever lynch that person? I can't think of a better way for a scum to prevent himself from being lynched than to pretend to be a jester.

Parama's analysis of Molla's jesterhood is equally overdone. It should have been apparent after reading a few of Molla's posts that he was a jester, yet Parama continued the analysis of Molla until well

after

he supposedly figured out Molla was a jester. Why bother? Parama doesn't strike me as the type to do a bunch of extra work for no apparent reason. Hell, even reading the thread proves Parama's lazy and derpy (derphammer much?). Other folks that have played with him before have assured us that this sort of play is "par for the course" for Parama. Why then, did he spend so much time on jesterMolla? He spent a hell of a lot of time and effort proving Molla's jesterhood. Why? What was his motivation behind spending all that time? Answer: Molla's his partner and Parama is in effect attempting to get his partner to be made unlynchable. I can't think of any other reason why the otherwise lazy Parama would spend so much time justifying Molla's over-the-top jester performance.

Another point of interest about Parama's post: he apologizes to Varsoon for hammering not once, but twice (actually three times, he apologizes yet again in #150). He also states that Varsoon is town and that he was strung up for a newbtell. Why is Parama so apologetic? He doesn't strike me as the apologetic type. He strikes me more as the "shrug, oops" kinda guy. Now, this is no more than my somewhat biased opinion, but I think Parama knew he was town (or at least not mafia), derphammered, and apologized, attributing his derphammer to not reading the thread. He's gotten himself a free lynch. Moving onward.

I'm just going to stop quoting all the terrible posts by Molla, they're essentially a continuance of his jester facade. However, Parama

also

continues to label Molla as the jester. See below:

Fortunately you're the jester, and I'm the vig who's going to shoot you.

Again, why is Parama so persistent about pointing out Molla's a jester? He's already said it a half dozen times. I just don't see any reason why he keeps harping on about it, unless he's trying to make his partner unlynchable. That's really the only motivation I can think of as to why he's going to such lengths in calling Molla a jester.

Next point of interest:

BB, why so selective in how you apply your sig?

Cause I see Parama do this as town like every game.

TBH he could be scum, but Shos is more obvious atm.

This is a pretty serious post, considering Molla's play the rest of the game. He claims he sees Parama derphammer "like every game". I think it's an associative tell between the two of them. Molla's been balls-deep in dumbfuckery the entire game, and suddenly he puts his game face on just long enough to say derphammering is part of Parama's town meta? I don't think so.

>voting the jester

read the game plz

Hey, look! Yet another "Molla's the jester gaiz" post! How many of these are there in the thread by now? And it gets better:

Well I can 100% guarantee you that BB isn't mafia in this game, or even a harmful third. He's either town or jester, so lynching him is bad.

And I liked you before but your stubborn insistence to not logic is baffling

Wait, now he's "town OR jester"? Didn't you say "there's no way he's town" in one of your earliest posts, call him a jester for the last god knows how many posts, and NOW he's "town OR jester"? Da faq?

The next post of consequence is:

where am I defending Molla
he's jester
don't lynch him because in xylbot I'm pretty sure jester lynch ends game (could check but)
the end

HOLY SHIT I THINK BBMOLLA MIGHT BE THE JESTER GUYS YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T LYNCH HIM


Most of the rest of both Parama's and Molla's posts involve lynching shos/UT/me/voided/wind-up. I'm done with this case. We should lynch Parama today and vig Molla tonight.

TLDR: Parama and BBMolla are scum together.

!vote Parama

[Syryana]

If my death is required to take the mafia down, so be it.

[Syryana]

In other news, do you have anything to say about that big thing, other than "Bus at will"?

[Syryana]

Pushing a policy lynch? On

page 1

? This is pretty transparently bad play. Possible jester? I originally thought so. Now we have two possible jesters, both on page 1. Interesting.

Yeah, because using policy as an RVS reason is just "transparently bad".

Both Syr and shos are pushing BB/Para as scum together. My guess is, it's Syr, shos and either BB or Para (probably the latter). I refuse to believe a BB/Para pairing.

Speaking of transparently bad, you do realize Molla continued to push that policy lynch until well after RVS? You did actually read my post, right?

Welcome, Tierce.

Damn it, Tierce. I've been trying to tone down my towniness so I could make it further into the games more often. Looks like I'm still a fairly easy alignment read, though. Oh well.

So this guy is third party? I doubt he's scum, but third party sounds about right.

Wat?

@syryana:

Could you explain something for me? You opened up today voting for shos back in #201 with no explanation. I'm guessing that you felt the reason was obvious and no explanation was needed. However, just a few days later, part of your case on Parama (#243) was "his insistence that shos is mafia". This is a point that you actually were agreeing with. Why is Parama scummy for believing that Shos is scum, when you were also thinking that Shos is scum?

I don't think Parama is scummy for finding shos scum (granted, you can't tell that from my #243, since I was being ungodly apathetic at the time), I thought Parama was scum because of

why

he thought shos was scum. If you go look at that behemoth called #149, you'll notice that he calls shos scum for taking the bulletproof claim literally(essentially a meta read, mildly ironic) and confbiases him from thereon out.

Given his last two posts by shos, I'm more inclined to believe he's town. I don't think the normal inventor role exists for scum, shos. It should say which alignments your role can be in your role PM.

!unvote

From Syr trying to tie BB and Para together as a scumteam, I get the impression he's scum with one of them and wants to ensure a mislynch when his scumbuddy gets lynched. The same could sort of apply to shos, as well, but I think Syr is scummier on his own.

With Rufflig's reply to Tierce's comment about how obvtown he is, I sort of got the vibe he's third party who is playing a town game. I don't often see town replying to comments about how town they look.

Para, you should probably claim.

I think we could learn a lot by lynching Para, but the selfvote worries me... I'm still not sure whether it's a ballsy gambit or whether he actually is town trying to move the game forward. I highly doubt he's a jester, as shos suggested.

I'll give more detailed reads later today or tomorrow.

Serra, you played so much better than this in the last game I played with you. This whole post is filler and fencesitting, with the sole exception of "Rufflig is third party because I've never seen town comment on how town they are".

[Syryana]

Nope.

[Syryana]

Syr, are you honestly calling a post that calls you scum with either Para or BB fencesitting?

Dat not fencesitting, dat's filler, since you done said dat already before in same words (#512).

[Syryana]

Why is it that you have such a poor relationship with twilight here?

She dumped me for my best friend a few years back. I'm sort of bitter about the whole thing.

Did you want something in particular from me?

Pedit: Stop beating around the bush and make your point, Tierce.

[Syryana]

No, because I have no idea how to verify that. If you'd like, feel free to check my wiki. I have links to my four completed town games on there.

[Syryana]

The data isn't conclusive one way or another, but Syryana doesn't have an issue participating in the thread post-hammer when Town. That's what I was checking, Voided; I know some people just don't like to. But outside that playstyle-tell, it's usually a scum tell, because it's an awkward moment. The fact that it took calling Syryana out by name to get him to the thread over a natural post post-hammer, and that he had plenty of chance to do so Yesterday and Today), is a scummy pattern on a player who has no issues posting as Town in the same circumstances.

I wouldn't lynch just on this, but it's part of the overall image, especially if Parama flips scum.

Let's see what happened since my last post up to the hammer by shos: Meta, your meta sucks, no it doesn't, your meta makes you wrong, hi Molla, hammer, don't hammer, "hammer" (it wasn't but we thought it was). Do I have anything meaningful to add at any point up to the hammer? No.

Let's see what happened after the hammer. Parama claims vig, he shot Sharper. Within 12 posts of the hammer Tierce calls me out for not posting. Uhm, okay? What would I comment about? Parama's claim? He's already dead, so anything he says is pretty much irrelevant until after the flip.

Man, I'm so darn scummy for not posting in twilight.

You know what, the hell with it. Let's take Tierce's "why Syr is scum" argument apart.

Spoiler: Stuff Tierce said

^^^ Would lynch. (Won't touch this slot before Parama is dead, though.) This is a really bad post, look at how he's focusing on behaviors over motivations; I know Syryana from Zach's latest F11 game and he was far better than this at scumhunting.

Note that this was completely left out of Syryana's Post 478; in fact, he said that "I cut out all the nonsense about shos and UT" from Parama's "edited post 149". He completely abandoned this line of discussion, when it was one of the core points about his Parama case and the only truly legitimate thing about it.

He made 478 about Parama and BBmolla derping around, with a pretense at motivation seeking that is really only skin-deep. Parama can be obvious at scum, but there is no benefit for him in calling his partner Jester to make him "unlynchable" and vice-versa. In a game with multiple kill powers, a Jester claim doesn't save scum, so it would be outright suicidal for a scumteam to claim Jester. It was a stupid fakeclaim from both and to both, and they are known to do so regardless of alignment.

However, in this game,

Parama

's fake bravado is much more likely to come from scum. He tends to act really awkwardly when producing "genuine" content as scum, which is one of the things that leads to his tendency to claim scum with anyone and everyone, make fakeclaims, and generally fuck around until he goes "oh shit this is awkward I guess I should try to look like TOWN" and then rolling out a pretense at content like the mudslingy 149.

Syryana is trying to push "bad play" as "scum obfuscation", which is ridiculous, since it's much more likely that (wonder of wonders) people are messing about in a bastard game. What is more, he is going "pushing a policy lynch on page 1" = "Jester" or "trying to look like a Jester", and spends a lot of time discussing the quality of their play and how this means they are scum together playing an obfuscation game. He even mentions that people say Parama derphammers in multiple games, and that BB is using this for their scumteam's purpose--but does not seem to care to check out their meta to see if they behave like this elsewhere.

PEdit: Apparently yes. ^.^ And now, finally, to bed.

That Parama/BBmolla suspicion was where? And where did the Parama/shos idea fly off to? Is shos Town due to his claim? How does Parama's stance toward shos read now, then?

The shift in tracks in 259 and then in 284 seem unnatural, because you don't follow up on your alleged Parama/BBmolla/shos suspicions, and instead latch on to the comfortable wagons with lots of votes.

So, to condense all that:

• My play is bad, and I'm not that bad (according to Tierce anyways), so therefore I'm scum.
  
• My Parama case sucks.
  
• My play is inconsistent.
  
• I'm not posting during twilight.

Point one: I agree, my play here is not on the level it was in M134. There are many reasons for this: mid-game malaise, my only solid scumread died N1 and was town, this game doesn't interest me nearly as much as M134 did. People mostly messed about D1, Varsoon got mislynched, and overall activity was low. I found myself on Day 2 start with no reads, no interest in the game, nothing. I just derped along, made some superficial reads, went with that. I just frankly couldn't be arsed to put any effort into this game. Probably still wouldn't be, if Tierce hadn't stormed in here and shoved a taser up my ass.

Point two: My case on Parama/Molla scumteam was "superficial" and "makes a pretense at motivation seeking that was only-skin deep". The major point of contention here is that no way would Parama/Molla scumteam do what I claimed they did; it would be tantamount to suicide in a game with so many killing roles. Well, looking at the role list I can see a few that would make a fake-Jester-scum untouchable, so... Furthermore, Tierce kindly points out all these nice meta-related things that would have made my case not suck. Interesting, considering she'd just pointed out that I can't be bothered to meta anyone anyways (I straight up said it in my post), why would my analysis have included meta-related points? All I know about Parama is what I've seen from him this game and my case on him reflects that.

Point three: Yep. See point one. This point is also rather odd coming from the meta-queen; a cursory examination of my scum games reveals that inconsistency is

not

a part of my scum-play.

Point four: This particular argument from Tierce is fascinating. I'm not posting during twilight, but I'm active elsewhere, so I'm scummy? That's a really weak argument, particularly in light of the fact that nothing comment-worthy had happened up until Tierce called me out on it. This argument is weird for a couple of reasons: 1)Tierce supposedly doesn't want me lynched today. 2)I know she's a strong player, why are strong players suddenly making weak arguments? Especially when there's a blatantly obvious simple explanation for it.

I also realize I never answered Tierce's questions from #483. Answers: It wasn't there until after shos' claim. Roughly the same place as my shos scumread. Yes. Null, don't know how hardheaded Parama is w.r.t. his scumreads.

[Syryana]

Thought you were going to shoot me, Parama?

[Syryana]

Parama/Molla

If this existed, I'd have hammered Parama ages ago for towncred btw

This is so bad.

Hey Voided. Why aren'tcha voting Parama?

[Syryana]

Syr you still haven't given any valid reasoning as to why I'm scum, so why are you voting me?

Bussing my scumbuddy for towncred.

it's actually hilarious to read your ISO, because you're willing to explain why I'm scum with BBMolla, you're willing to interject to defend yourself, but you're unwilling to provide any actual case on the person you're voting

if you were any more obvious scum the mod would have flipped you already

Always glad to entertain.

Parama/Molla

If this existed, I'd have hammered Parama ages ago for towncred btw

This is so

bad.

true.

ftfy

So kind.

[Syryana]

Oh wow, actually I think I hammered Parama.
I didn't see Shos revote him

Still think the BP fakeclaim and then claim as vig is too coincidental

It's still L-2. You gotta use the correct voting format or KK will ignore you. (

!vote whoever

)

...That was an invitation to explain.

Go ISO Tierce. She's got lots of reasons why I'm scum.

why can't we lynch voided
let the vig shoot syr
and then lynch me tomorrow if they somehow both flip town?
(if they both flip town I'm done with mafia for a few months, because. really now.)

[Syryana]

Voided always looks scummy to me.

I like OS, Tierce, and PimHel at the moment.

Why OS and Tierce?

Shos you can answer this too.

[Syryana]

It ain't going anywhere. Take yer time.

Still waitin on Molla and OS to answer things anyways.

[Syryana]

Syryana: can you explain why you are being so lenient toward me in particular? I keep thinking that anyone who saw me in Zachyard would want more than I have been providing in the last few days, and yet you seem just fine with my inactivity. Why is that?

We don't have a deadline. In this scenario I'm perfectly content waiting on you to produce quality content rather than slapdashing something together because you're in a rush or your head isn't in the game or whatever. After Zachyard I know you well enough to know if you're not posting there's probably a good reason for it. To be perfectly frank about it, you replacing in was the only thing that made me take an interest in this game. Costs me nothing to wait, so I might as well wait. Here's some incentive:



Besides, I'm waiting on Molla and shos too.

[Syryana]

@mod, I'll be V/LA until Wednesday.

[Syryana]

Not about to complain~

serrapaladin, Syryana, your current reads.

Current reads: serrapaladin and Oversoul.

My BBMolla scumread died with Parama as it was mostly based on the tells between the two.

Serra's been bugging me all game; sort of lurking in the background and asking questions/making observations that really won't help him fish out people's alignment, e.g.:

Spoiler: Serra's questions

Wacky isn't necessarily bastard, I think - it's just swingy and PR heavy. If your role says VT, you're most likely a VT. I don't like Syryana's "treating this as mountainous". Care to elaborate, Syr?

PimHel and Syryana/Varsoon's back-and-forth about activity is odd. Doesn't really strike me as something either would want to waste time over on D2 of play.

Why are we PLing monkeyman?

BB, why so selective in how you apply your sig?

Syr, are you honestly calling a post that calls you scum with either Para or BB fencesitting?

Para, what's wrong with VM not wanting to hammer you YET?

There are some other things in serraISO that I want to go into but I need to catch up in other games first. So later on that.

Oversoul replaced into Untrod's slot, I believe. I had a scumread on that slot to start with thanks to UT, but it weakened after the replace in. My scumread on him solidified after that reads post. That thing

reeked

. First, after reading what all he said about me, I was legitimately surprised he voted me at the bottom. A simplified summary of what he said w.r.t. me: "I don't understand why you're treating this as mountainous, oh wait now I do, why are you voting Rufflig, I agree with you on Parama, why are you questioning serra since you prob don't know him, I like your points about Parama". Where's the scumread? He answers later (the next Day, actually) and his reasons for finding me scum essentially parrot Tierce or involve null things, e.g. taking jokes seriously. I've no idea where he gets the "weaken the townread on his (Oversoul's) slot".

Frankly the whole reads post is mostly busywork. He pretty blatantly ignores Parama (interesting, since he already knew Parama was the top wagon at that point, scumtell IMO), he asks a bunch of questions that were either answered later in thread or really don't help him ferret out alignment (just like serra) and the reads list at the end really has little to do with the garbled mess of PbPA he did.

I'd vote, but I can't. Pim blocked me last night. Kill serra or OS.

[Syryana]

Why OS and Tierce?

Shos you can answer this too.

This is the quote I was referring to Syr.
Also, what was it that you wanted me to answer. I don't remember you asking me any questions

I don't remember asking you questions either. Where did I say I had a question for you?

How did I pretty blatantly ignore Parama when the first thing I did upon replacing in was try to trick him into thinking I had hammered him (albeit pretty slipshod way).

Your reads list mostly ignored him; I didn't notice the "parama is null" bit at the end. You glanced at maybe two of his posts in your catchup. Your derphammer or fakehammer or whatever it was became irrelevant when I pointed out it was L-1 a couple posts later. The "pretty blatantly ignored" was an accidental misrep, but you had more than enough to decide whether he was town or scum at the time of your reads list and your PbPA didn't analyze his relevant posts in any way. That was the point I was making.

[Syryana]

Syryana: we're not lynching Oversoul Today.

Why not? And what about serra?

[Syryana]

I glanced at his posts. I saw: he apparently doesn't understand what a mafia-ally is, he's never played xylbot before, two failed attempts to vote me, reasons to vote me that I'll deal with shortly, and treating Tierce with kid gloves.

I'll split this into chunks.

One is Syr lashing at BBmolla for saying if he and Parama were scumbuddies he would have hammered a long time ago and then once Param asked why Syr was voting Parama Syr replied because he was bussing his scumbuddy.

I believe the posts he is referring to here are #608 and #612. The first post called BBMolla's #599 bad. It doesn't take a genius to see the blatant WIFOM I'm referring to. In the second post, I am telling Parama I'm bussing him for towncred (should be fairly obvious it's a joke). How are the two related? How are they indicative of a scum mindset, particularly in light of Parama's flip?

One is Tierce pointing out that Syr just completely left out a point that he earlier accused Parama when Syr made his big post

Sheeping a Tierce point.

One is the fact that imo he was trying to either weaken the town read on my slot and Tierce's slot toward the tail of the day yesterday or get a better idea on what to do with Tierce and I

Town read on your slot? What town read on your slot? You replace Untrod, who was almost the lynch yesterday instead of Parama. The only reason you

didn't

get lynched was a combination of Parama being scummier and Tierce saving your ass through Untrod meta. Your argument that I was trying to weaken the townread on Tierce is bad for similar reasons.

Plus there is the added fact that I think Parama was most likely a counterwagon to scum which would mean Syr because Parama openly expressed that he did not like Syr and so it was very important that Parama died before Syr

Uh, what? If Parama was a counterwagon to scum, you are the scum. There was no wagon on me yesterday. Parama declared me conf-scum and voted me, but there was no wagon on me. Yet another point in your case evaporates.

So, from the above, the only part of his case that's remotely valid... comes from Tierce.

So I ask again, why is this guy not an option for lynches today?

[Syryana]

You missed the relevant part.

......
*checks Oversoul's posts this page again*
.... nope.

[Syryana]

L-5. Point is noted however. Hmm.

[Syryana]

!vote serrapaladin
!xmafia votes

I'll deal with this game later. I just don't care about it right now.

[Syryana]

...enough for us to force replace you? or you'll get back into it in a few hours/morning?

I'll get back to it. I want to make a serra case, but other things require my attention atm.

[Syryana]

Ya'll should probably stop WIFOM'ing about the whys and wherefores of Pim's voteblock on me. It's not going to get us anywhere.

My main hold-up with Syryana at present is his activity. He feels desinterested, and I know that he prefers playing scum. This is not a point of the game where I could picture him not bothering with the game if he were scum, even with PimHel's death. But I still want to go through my previous stuff and read things more thoroughly.

You're missing why I'm disinterested. You were so certain I was scum yesterday. What happened?

/crutch

Rufflig, who's scum?

Rufflig is your top townread?

Spoiler: Serra's case dissected

Yo Tierce, why point out OS' softclaim?

Scumreads are Syr and shos.

VM, what happened with your nightaction? I doubt there are two mafia-allies, so if he's an actual inventor, he's basically town.

Scummy stuff Syr has done:

• Considering the game mountainous when people were talking about roles.
  
  When there are 13 people in a Wacky game, all of whom may have different power roles, I felt the town's time was better spent finding scum over endless speculation. How is that scummy?
  
  
  
  
• Random OMGUS vote of Rufflig.
  
  First, that was pretty obviously a joke. Second, why point this OMGUS out and completely ignore my OMGUS of Voided when he broke my reaction test? #276
  
  
  
  
• Wanting to lynch Para while he was afk.
  
  Lol. The game hadn't gone anywhere in three days. I picked Parama because he'd done shit I didn't like and voted him for the hell of it. Then look! Activity!
  
  
  
  
• Pointing suspicion at me for defending him, when I was attacking Rufflig's post.

  Huh, fairly new town seeing non-standard RVS as scummy is quite common though.

  That's a pretty lame attack. Even your ally Pim pointed out how bad that post was. Furthermore, you were attacking Pim, not Rufflig. In that single sentence, you call me new town and ascribe my suspicion of Parama to that.
  
  
  
  
• Backpedaling on that attack, calling it a reaction test, and voting Voided for allegedly ruining the reaction test. His VM vote was just a cheap attempt to sell the idea that he was actually reaction testing.
  
  It was a reaction test. Where's the backpedaling? Your #262 sucked, I wanted a reaction so I made a point about how you were defending me (slightly exaggerated for effect). Voided promptly blundered in and ruined the whole thing, so I OMGUS'd him.
  
  
  
  
• Voting UT for lack of content (which is not necessarily alignment indicative) and being on the Varsoon wagon (which Syr was, too).
  
  This completely ignores my #284.
  
  
  
  
• Not posting in pseudo-twilight when Para was fakehammered.
  
  Beating a dead horse on this one.
  
  
  
  
• His entire case on me relies on me asking questions that haven't led to me finding scum, when he hasn't been doing any better. He literally only quotes a few of my posts, without any indication of why they're bad...
  
  You haven't seen my case on you yet. Your case on me is pretty bad, though.

Mafia-ally means a single 2-man scum team (see Katsuki's massive list of test-setups), so I think it's Syr/shos. Going through Syr's ISO, he doesn't direct a single post at shos, nor gives any justification for his read at all, he just votes shos twice. 589 references his scumread on shos, which he never gave any indication of, except by temporarily voting him twice.

Spoiler: Why you should be voting serra

Wacky isn't necessarily bastard, I think - it's just swingy and PR heavy. If your role says VT, you're most likely a VT. I don't like Syryana's "treating this as mountainous". Care to elaborate, Syr?

Not liking Serra voting 'with reason'.

K?

PimHel and Syryana/Varsoon's back-and-forth about activity is odd. Doesn't really strike me as something either would want to waste time over on D2 of play.

Hey, I'm talkative.
And, besides, it's like...
USERS CURRENTLY BROWSING THIS FORUM: Varsoon

Particularly this is deflecting an accusation of lurking that wasn't made. Jumpy?


Why are we PLing monkeyman?

Mass claim later, methinks.

Serra's first post of relevance. In it, he casts a wide net of suspicion: suspects include me, Pim, Varsoon. Though he sees things he calls "suspicious" or "odd", he makes no move to follow up on those suspicions excepting his question regarding my mountainous statement. The questions he does ask in no way help him scumhunt: e.g. "Jumpy?", "K?", "Why are we PLing Monkeyman?". Furthermore, he makes no mention of Sharper whom he is voting for "reasons" in his first post. Granted that post was made in RVS, but serra's #28 does not read to me like an RVS post. He makes a crack on the mod and then moves his vote to a "serious" place for "reasons".

what are your exact thoughts about Sharper, Varsoon and Syry?

Syryana seems town. Sharper bothers me a bit, but there's not really enough to go off yet. Varsoon looks scummy.

If you think that one of the active players is scum, you should give us something. Not a possibility, as that's fake.

I'm not sure I get what you mean with the 'fake' part. Also, please explain your UT vote (which, btw, I'm not sure counts, being on one line with the unvote).

Shos is likely town.

Hang on. Wasn't he voting Sharper for reasons? He says in #97:

!vote Varsoon

Serra brought it to my attention that Varsoon has responded too heavily to the 'accusation' of sorta-lurking.

It's more that he responded to an 'accusation' that wasn't even made.

Sharper is also a good vote, though.

Yet now we have him saying there "isn't enough to go off yet". What the actual fuck? This is a pretty glaring inconsistency in his reads. Speaking of his reads: Why am I town? Why is Varsoon scummy? Why is shos likely town? I don't like lots of unexplained reads. He never explains them either.

Are we honestly not going to talk about Parama's derphammer? I can't find any comparably derpy play from him recently and with 100+ completed games I would hope that's not common for him.

!vote Parama

What was with the certainty Varsoon would flip town? Really don't like the fact that you're trying to paint your vote as positive in any way, shape or form. You should have read the game regardless of whether there'd been a hammer or not.

The wagon had already been driven to L-1. If you were so sure Varsoon was town, that should have been equally useful in gathering reads from. Your flurry of posts after your hammer looks a lot like you trying to talk yourself out of/smokescreening any blame for the hammer. I don't buy shos-scum, nor do I see why you'd think he'd be killed last night.

BB, why so selective in how you apply your sig?

This post isn't terribly scummy in and of itself, but it should be noted because it becomes important later. Do note that serra is continuing to ask passively-worded questions that aren't helping him ferret out alignment (e.g. "why so selective in applying your sig", "what was with the certainty Varsoon would flip town").

Well I can 100% guarantee you that BB isn't mafia in this game, or even a harmful third. He's either town or jester, so lynching him is bad.

And I liked you before but your stubborn insistence to not logic is baffling

BB is not a bad player, there's no way he's transparent enough for you to make that statement. I don't have a scumread on him, but I see no logical reason to give him a town-pass. I also still haven't seen a compelling case against shos, so you can attack my logic all you want and risk me completely ignoring you, or you can start using some hard logic yourself. Also, what have you done around here for people to not find derp-hammers by you suspicious?

!unvote

The unlyncher thing was a surely a joke. Rufflig, mind explaining your thoughts about Syr?

Serra points out that there's no way Parama should be so certain Molla is jester/town. Yet, even though serra really doesn't like Parama due to the derphammer and "smokescreening" afterwards and points out Parama should in no way be sure Molla is town, he... unvotes Parama? To query Rufflig about me, when I am a townread(or was last time he mentioned me)? More inconsistencies in serra's reads.

I would, but people here are insisting that's par for the course...

Wait, so you meta'd Parama, found nothing to indicate he derphammers (#206), and now you're taking people's word that he just kinda does that sort of thing?

Why?

The BP thing I'm happy to ignore, but aside from that I've made similar points against Para. Rather than just insisting shos is scum, I dislike how Para refuses to explain why shos is scum.

Only reason I'm not voting Para is because people are insisting he does that as town.

Same as above.

Huh, fairly new town seeing non-standard RVS as scummy is quite common though.

Parama's massive wall basically has shos scum for allegedly taking stuff too literal, calling out lurkers, not scumhunting and voting Varsoon. The first two points are non-tells, the third is less true than for many others (like UT) and Varsoon was wagoned to L-1 before he got derp-hammered. The Varsoon wagon was bad in hindsight, but I see worse votes on it than shos' (PimHel/UT).

Actually, I think I'll
!vote Untrod_Tripod

This was the post that spawned my reaction test. That's not why it's interesting though. Note the bolded. He basically shreds Parama's shitty reasoning to call shos scum, but rather than moving his vote back to Parama (which he had no reason to move in the first place) he votes Untrod. He's never even

mentioned

Untrod up to this point. He's been attacking Parama for his last few posts, yet for some reason unvotes and moves his vote to Untrod. More stunningly inconsistent play from serra.

275 to 280.

Calling his attack on my alleged defense of him a 'reaction test' after VM attacked it reeks of backpedaling. Then he votes Voided and unvotes after I call the vote bad.

Also, of the Varsoon votes, his was among the worst.

This is an opportunistic attack on me. First, he has yet to explain what about it "reeks of backpedaling". I made a moderately exaggerated question to get something from serra then Voided comes in and starts answering for serra, rather destroying the whole thing. Not seeing the backpedaling. The second point: my Voided vote lasted for four minutes. I pretty blatantly stated my Voided vote wasn't serious.

The Varsoon votes point is what gave this attack the "opportunistic" vibe. He's had a whole day to make this point about me. Why hasn't he made it before now? The tone of the whole post is "hey I got Syr doing something that I can say looks scummy, let's goooooooooooo!" He glanced through my ISO to see what he could throw in there with his Syrscum discovery and that was what he found.

Voided, did the ability gifted to you by shos do anything verifiably useful? Did it work?

Why would a scum inventor tarfet townies

trips me up a bit, as scum can't be normal inventors, and if his role is the normal inventor, he should know that.

UT looks very much like the town type of not giving a shit and his attackers are being pretty opportunistic. I don't really see Para/BB together, but either one of them, or them on separate teams is quite likely if shos is town.

Fishing for information about the item Voided got from shos. Inventors can be mafia-ally. Calls the people voting Untrod opportunistic, but does not follow this line of thought or even mention specific instances of this "opportunism".

...Care to give posthumous reasoning, Syr?

First lynch Untrod.
If scum, attack Serra for his quick change on Untrod or Rufflig for trying to force-replacing Untrod, while Untrod is now at his peak in activity.
If town, which I doubt, Serra is still a good option for faking reads.

So leave Syry alone.

So I'm scum for my quick change if he's scum and I'm scum for my fake read if he's town? My initial vote on Untrod was mostly because he was being useless, but given we're down to 10, probably with a good 5 non-town role, I thought better of it. Syry and shos have both been objectively more scummy. Best case, Untrod is town who doesn't really care about the game. Worst case, he's the actual jester or something and wants to get himself lynched. Either way, I don't like his lynch at all.

!xmafia replace wind-up

Serra has now completely changed his mind about Untrod. First he votes Untrod for no apparent reason, drops that line of inquiry entirely to attack me, mentions a scumslip from shos, drops that too, and now UT is town. I'm getting overwhelmed by inconsistencies.

Tierce is pretty cool.

Pushing a policy lynch? On

page 1

? This is pretty transparently bad play. Possible jester? I originally thought so. Now we have two possible jesters, both on page 1. Interesting.

Yeah, because using policy as an RVS reason is just "transparently bad".

Both Syr and shos are pushing BB/Para as scum together. My guess is, it's Syr, shos and either BB or Para (probably the latter). I refuse to believe a BB/Para pairing.

Welcome, Tierce.

Damn it, Tierce. I've been trying to tone down my towniness so I could make it further into the games more often. Looks like I'm still a fairly easy alignment read, though. Oh well.

So this guy is third party? I doubt he's scum, but third party sounds about right.

The Para selfvote just screams gambit....

Post 149 was the kind of :effort: crap Parama pulls as scum. I was fine with the hammer coming from him, but the following post was really really bad. Post 315 is equally bad. You want to see someone who clearly believes you are scum? /)U^.^U/) (\U^.^U(\

not meta.

Also, you seem to be funneling her points about how you play as "meta" in general and aren't actually trying to differentiate the points...which is a problem of the strawmanistic kind (screw you all, I just made a new word). Just because the points fall under the "meta" label doesn't absolve you of having to answer them.

P-EDIT: Which is still not a reason to look for them.

Why would you pick the least specific part of Tierce's case to point out? The lines you quoted are just stating how bad Para is, which doesn't constitute a case, meta or otherwise. (btw Para, you know that 1st, 2nd line etc. depends on your screen resolution and text size, right? For me that was all one line.)

In this post, serra sucks up to Tierce, passively pushes a me/shos/one of Parama or Molla scumteam, and calls Rufflig third party. He calls out a "scumteam" but provides no reasoning whatsoever as to why (what a shock). Furthermore this post was made shortly after I made my gigantic "Parama/Molla" wall; his first sentence criticizes one small piece of the wall and then completely ignores the rest. He is adamant that Parama and Molla are not scumbuddies but provides no reasoning why and does not mention any point of my wall except the first even though it is a case on a Parama/Molla team.

His note on Rufflig as third party is totally off as well. Serra's voted four separate people today (me, untrod, parama, shos) and he makes some off the wall comment about a third party? Why does he even care? He's got lots of scumreads he hasn't bothered to explore yet.

Given his last two posts by shos, I'm more inclined to believe he's town. I don't think the normal inventor role exists for scum, shos. It should say which alignments your role can be in your role PM.

!unvote

From Syr trying to tie BB and Para together as a scumteam, I get the impression he's scum with one of them and wants to ensure a mislynch when his scumbuddy gets lynched. The same could sort of apply to shos, as well, but I think Syr is scummier on his own.

With Rufflig's reply to Tierce's comment about how obvtown he is, I sort of got the vibe he's third party who is playing a town game. I don't often see town replying to comments about how town they look.

Para, you should probably claim.

I think we could learn a lot by lynching Para, but the selfvote worries me... I'm still not sure whether it's a ballsy gambit or whether he actually is town trying to move the game forward. I highly doubt he's a jester, as shos suggested.

I'll give more detailed reads later today or tomorrow.

Still haven't seen those reads he promised. Doesn't want to vote Parama because his self-vote might be a town thing? Lol? I actually called him out on that particular bit of fencesitting. Continues to say how scummy I am; still isn't voting me. Also, as I noted in #534 and #541, he fencesits on Parama and repeats his post #512 almost verbatim. Filler ftw!

Syr, are you honestly calling a post that calls you scum with either Para or BB fencesitting?

I am honestly unsure about what the hell Para is doing, but given he's at L-1 and refuses to claim or unvote himself, I'd be tempted to hammer.

I'll give in-depth reads first, when I find some time, though. I really don't know why PimHel is calling be out on that so much more than for example Voided or BB, but I'm happy to oblige.

More broken promises. My heart can't take this any more.

Bah, 554 is fake as fuck.

Why, oh mighty serra? You should explain this in words so we mere mortals can understand!

Bah, 554 is fake as fuck.

And the gathered masses held their breath in anticipation of the mighty words of the prophet; they wept and tore at their robes when this was what they received.

It seems my gambit did not work as well as I had hoped.

It's pretty unlikely that there's only one non-town directed kill, plus Para's reaction to the fakehammer looked pretty fake, so Para is a good lynch. I still think he's scum with Syr (or maybe shos), but worst case he's an SK.

!vote Parama

Back to L-1.

!vote Syryana

I'm pretty sure it's not MyLo, so that should be fine.

How the fuck would you know? If it's a three player scumteam, it is MyLo. Furthermore, MyLo or not, why would that affect your vote? If you legitimately believed me to be scum, you wouldn't bother to note that it's not MyLo and that your vote on me is "fine".

I didn't see that setup, Rufflig, but the vast majority have 2 scum, so it's fairly unlikely we're in MyLo. Is there any way to find out whether mafia-ally knows who scum are? I would have thought he doesn't have any more knowledge than a townie, in which case him targeting Syr and him choosing last night to first use his skill don't mean anything. At the very least it's fair to say that scum didn't know what Pim was.

Voided, can you confirm shos?

Still fishin for that inventor power Voided got.

But why would Pim target Syr over someone more obviously town like Rufflig or Tierce, if all he wanted was to block a town vote?

There is a serra partner in these two. Haven't figured out which one yet. If there's three scum, maybe both.

But why would scum-VM clear you? Unless of course you're both scum...

Flinging more suspicion.

A quick check of Tenements shows three prods for scum-Syry...

The game dynamic is completely different here than it was in Tenements. How did you miss this, Tierce? This is a pretty blatantly fuckawful use of meta.

So, TLDR version: Serra's play has been inconsistent as hell, he's been role/power fishing, he hasn't been scumhunting, he continues to promise but refuses to deliver detailed reads, his scumreads are opportunistic and/or make little sense and the single case he's made was incredibly awful. He should eat rope ASAP.

[Syryana]

Fair enough. What I was most surprised you didn't call out though was serra's "well Syr got three prods in Tenements as scum" thing. That's a pretty blatantly bad meta argument considering how oversimplified it is.

[Syryana]

Wait, didn't you use Tenements in some kind of argument about me before?

[Syryana]

In The Tenements you weren't around after the D1 or D2 hammers, D3 was a very short twilight during which you didn't post anywhere, and D4 was a quickhammer by you.

The hell? You at the least skimmed Tenements. Now you're saying you haven't touched it?

[Syryana]

Hmm.

I am interested to see the fruits of your labor once you go back and reread things. Intriguing that your hangup on your scumread on me is "I know he likes to be scum more, and his lack of activity at this stage is alarming given that."

[Syryana]

Wow that case was bad. I might respond to it in full when I don't have a flight to catch in a few hours and haven't slept in ages, but a few quick comments:

We'll add this to the list of things you owe us: detailed reads list (bare minimum scumreads with reasons), response to my case, response to Rufflig's case.

All the "inconsistencies" you point out are either gross misinterpretations on your part or progressions on my part.

O rly? You playing the same game the rest of us are? Cause that ISO was painful to read and damned nonsensical.

I haven't been rolefishing at all. I explicitly said that I DON'T want to know about WHAT happened, just WHETHER something happened or not. I wanted to see whether there's any evidence that shos might be a Malfunctioning Inventor.

I might buy that, except you keep asking things like "didja use it? you sure? it did what it said it would, rite?" That's way more info than you need as town; a simple "Voided, is shos town?" would suffice. As scum though, you're worried about whatever he got and who he used it on/what it does.

The meta point about Tenements was in response to Tierce's assertion that Syry is too disengaged to be scum. I wouldn't classify someone who gets 3 prods (and has a pretty low postcount for surviving to endgame) in his most recent scum-game as very engaged as scum. Extensive metaing is obviously part of Tierce's play style, and I'm wondering whether she might have intended to defend Syry now that he might actually get lynched by using incomplete/incorrect meta under the assumption that no one would check (not a huge stretch given this town). Call it simplistic if you will, but activity isn't a particularly nuanced matter, and Tierce's statement was demonstrably incorrect.

Yeah, except you're using a blanket statement (I got three prods in a scumgame) to augment your scum case on me without looking at the game itself. If you'd actually skimmed Tenements, my lurking there was strategic; the town was doing what I wanted them to do and lynching townies, so there was no need to post to guide them further. The prods were an unfortunate result of me sucking at prod dodging, not me being disinterested.

Rufflig, are you being serious about not coming up with a better explanation? You know that people can lie, right? There is no way of knowing whether shos actually targeted Pim last night. If anything, it's a bit convenient that shos' target also happened to be the NK target. Why does Syry/shos not make sense? Please ISO Syry and look for mentions of shos. He's making the classic mistake of completely ignoring his scumbuddy. shos sending 1 role at town-voided to confirm himself and the second one at his scumbuddy, while claiming to have targeted the NK target, makes sense. I don't know how exactly the Malfunctioning Inventor works, but I would assume that the chance of a single use on a townie confirming his as Malfunctioning is rather slim. In terms of being above suspicion, Pim was as good a target as any, so I could see why Syry/shos would choose him.

Speaking of shitty meta, this. If you actually bothered to read my scumgames (Tenements particularly, I don't remember what happened in Duck duck goose but that was a long time ago), you'd notice that one thing I never do is ignore my partners. Try ISO'ing me, gorckat, Slandaar. Furthermore, your point about shos is silly and makes no sense. If he was a Malfunctioning Inventor like you say, why would he give his alleged scumbuddy an item? Also, why are you now attempting to cast doubt on Voided's claim shos is town?

I'm not interested in you claiming, as I don't particularly want you lynched. I am rather trying to figure out why you're so convinced that I'm scum. If you're a survivor, you don't actually have any interest in lynching scum, so that would make the most sense to me. I can assure you I'm not scum, and if you are town, you should be voting Syry with me instead.

Voided, I meant that in terms of "you cannot CONFIRM shos' role, you can either DENY or NOT DENY."

So yeah, Syry/shos makes the most sense, and if there is a third, it's probably Tierce.

So, I'm scum because of that "case" of yours I shredded, shos is scum because I ignore him, and Tierce is scum because she realized she might be wrong about me? Eat rope.

And as that above post got me interested in relative activity, let's look at serra's:

10 posts Day 1 - 2 days in length
35 posts Day 2 - 28 days in length
20 posts Day 3 - 5 days in length

Well don't that beat all? Look at his activity on Day 2 versus Day 3. Day 2 lasted a month, Day 3 has been five days long, and he's already got more than half the posts he did on Day 2! His post/day ratio has gone from 1.25 to 4, a 320% increase!

What's different about toDay? Man's gotta defend himself from all them unsightly accusations, don't ya know. He wasn't a target yesterDay, so he didn't need to be as active.

More votes on serra, please.

[Syryana]

No x in vote, Voided.

[Syryana]

!vote serrapaladin

Why isn't this damn thing working

Tierce you need to help me out here

And one or both of Molla/Oversoul needs to stop being bad

[Syryana]

I don't have a townread on you. Where'd you get that idea?

[Syryana]

It's the second time you mention someone sucking up to me/treating me with kid gloves; first Oversoul, then serrapaladin. You're calling people out on buddying me. Now you ask for my vote. Why

me

, if I'm not a Townread? Why the specific separation from Oversoul and BBmolla?

And because you had a photo of a puppy. That was the most important bit. u^.^u

I called you out specifically because you're the only one not voting. That makes you different from OS and BB, who are voting me.

[Syryana]

You should probably get on that

I'm probably going to pass out shortly, I'll see what you come up with later

[Syryana]

Got what, BB?

[Syryana]

I prefer extraordinarily eccentric.

By the way Tierce I have to say I <3 you forever for that

[Syryana]

Well, serra isn't going to vote himself, I can't vote, and I don't know what the deal is with Oversoul/BBMolla. So....

[Syryana]

Don't do what Syry-scum wants! I wish I had more time to rip apart his case, but I really don't.

If there was a scummy for "AtE of the Year", I would totally nom this.

Syry, have you read my response to Rufflig's case?

I assume you're referring to your #914? I thought Ruff stomped that pretty flat in his #924. But, let's look at it anyways, since there's really not much going on around here.

What about your post should I have reread, Rufflig? I don't care about you claiming as Syry is a much better lynch, and I doubt you're his partner. Then, you haven't given any indication as to why shos/Syry doesn't make sense. shos being scum without Voided does make sense. He will want to send 1 ability to a townie, to confirm his role. Any further ones would be too risky, so he would either send them to his teammate (Syry), or not send them at all. That's why he claimed to have targeted Pim... It's not as though he crumbed it or anything, he just retroactively decided to claim Pim was his target.

Let's see. Syry/shos makes sense, because shos wants to send one ability to a townie and one to his teammate, me. First point: assuming I am mafia, if shos is an inventor, he cannot be my partner. Inventors are only town or mafia-ally. Given that Voided has confirmed shos' item works as stated on the tin, he's likely not a Malfunctioning Inventor, rendering it impossible for him to be my partner at all.

You further assert that shos makes sense as scum on his own, regardless of Voided's alignment. Your reasoning: his initial target was Voided, and a scum inventor would want the townie to confirm him. Well, considering a scum Inventor would be at best a mafia-ally, and a mafia-ally has already flipped, if shos is scum of any kind he must be a Malfunctioning Inventor. Since shos has already claimed inventor and Voided got the tin, shos would be completely fucked if the tin had done something it wasn't supposed to. So, rather than it being sensible that shos is scum on his own, the reverse is in fact true;

shos can only be scum if Voided is also scum.

That is the only scenario in which shos can be scum; he "gave" a tin to Voided, Voided claims it works, etc. However, I'm pretty darn sure Voided is town, so shos is most likely town as well.

N.B.: I'm discounting the possibility of shos being a Malfunctioning Inventor, giving an item to Voided, and it working as intended. It's too unlikely and risky.

Your assertion that shos picked Pim as a target retroactively is silly, if you think he's scum. Why would he need to pick Pim retroactively if he's on the scumteam? He'd have already known who was going to die.

Also, Syr definitely didn't use the same tone earlier as he did in the posts attacking me. This isn't me mudslinging, this is Syry throwing everything he has at me to protect himself. Tierce is back to using false-meta to defend her scumbuddy, so I'm thinking Rufflig might actually be right about shos, and it's Syry/Tierce instead.

Would you care to back up these wide statements with proof? What "false-meta" is Tierce using? What examples do you have of my tone being different?

@BBMolla, #939 should convince you. If you really want more, go look at my #886.

[Syryana]

^You're scum, I'd prefer someone not scum convince me.

[Syryana]

Will catch up in this game soon

[Syryana]

Bah, I don't really know what I'm doing anyways, so go ahead and hammer if you want.

I'm an Alien (Survivor) and I abducted PimHel N1 and Voided N2. I originally did that so Voided's failing action would implicate shos, there'd be a chain of lynches and I could survive to endgame. I honestly have no idea why Voided claims his action worked. Either I was blocked or Voided is lying.

I have no idea who's scum, although if it's not Voided/shos my next best guess is actually Syry/Tierce. I really don't like playing survivor, so I tried to sort of stall my way to endgame. Unless someone blocked me, go ahead and lynch one of Voided/shos and you'll see I'm telling the truth.

Wait a minute. Wait a fucking minute. You've been AtE'ing and saying all sorts of wild shit about me and ignoring my posts all Day, and now I'm only scum if shos/Voided flip town? And you're a survivor? So what, all your shit on my wagon was pure opportunism?

It's basically a jailkeeper if I understand it correctly. I targeted Pim N1, which must have stopped his voteblock and Voided N2, so whatever ability shos gave him couldn't have worked.

!xmafia help Alien

Why did you block Voided N2?

serrapaladin, as a claimed survivor, you now have the same credibility problem that you were trying to place on me. Furthermore, your claim places this game in

MYLO

- you'd have every reason to try and get a townie lynched. Your claim of having jailed Voided Mafia last night does not imply that shos is scum. Your alien claim does throw some doubt on Voided Mafia - if true. Which again is a problem - you have no need to be truthful as any mislynch is a win for you. I doubt you were blocked as that would make at least 3 roleblockers in this game.

How do you know that puts us in MYLO?

I don't see how that makes this MyLo. I don't count towards a scum majority, nor do I know who scum is. If it comes to the point that scum claims and asks me to vote with them, I'd rather win with town instead.

I forgot that Varsoon was a Roleblocker, so in that case it's almost certainly Voided/shos. I see no reason for Voided to lie for shos unless they're scum together. I understand my credibility problem, but I genuinely did abduct Voided. Syry was a good mislynch target at the start of the Day, so I didn't claim anything then.

Wait a minute, now I'm a mislynch?

But that's the thing: I can't. I have no idea who they are, and if we mislynch at 2/6 scum left, there's nothing stopping scum from just nightkilling me for the unshared victory. I literally have no incentive to vote with scum unless it's LyLo, and even then I'd rather win with town. Lynching me will take you to actual MyLo.

How do you know what MYLO is?

If the town mislynches and the mafia night kills a townie then the game will end at the break of dawn. You don't get to choose who you win with. It is done for you by the mod. If a win condition can be attained by counting the survivor as a member of some faction, then it will be attained. You don't even need to know who is in the faction.

I don't see the mafia night killing you and throwing away a guaranteed win.

I wish I had the information that you people seem to have. Ruff is certain we're in MYLO today, Serra's certain that his death will put us in MYLO... What the hell is going on here?

...No, I never claimed that.

I got an item N1. It was used N1. I've never lied about when I used it.

Wut. How the hell do you use an item the same night when you only get it when night is resolved?

Voidedmafia: So you're claiming to have purposefully misdirected us. Clean up your mess and tell us why you did it.

I saw him ask if I used an ability, so I thought he was referring to N1, not N2. I have been referring to N1 at all times regarding what I've receieved, so I haven't

purposefully

misdirected you

If serra did refer to N2 at some point, then sorry for not seeing that.

Now, Ruffling, explain what I would get by intentionally lying about this.

This post is shit.

How were you able to use the invention the night you received it?

...This is a dumb question, OS.

The hell it is. Answer him.

I don't see it as such although I think I get what you're hinting at.

What, exactly, would stop me from using the ability the same night that I got it? Only way that would be possible is if Khan sent the PM with the item to me at the start of D2 so I'd only be able to use it N2. (and if that were the case, if I did hypothetically use it N2 it wouldn't have worked cuz serra)

That's a load of crap. Shos gives you an ability N1. Thanks to NAR, you get it at D2 start. There's

no way

for you to use it N1.

Voided: When I asked you about being able to confirm on D2 you said you had to check your PM. Surely if you'd actually used it N1 you'd have known it to work. Also, how would that even work? Aren't night actions resolved at the end of the night? If it's intended for you to use on the same night, that's a pretty bad system as shos could have waited until DL to submit his action.

Pretty much this.

When I asked you about being able to confirm on D2 you said you had to check your PM

Confirm what exactly I had recieved. I knew since N1 that I had gotten

something

, but at the time you asked I was fuzzy on what exactly it was.

I know what it is now (though I might have to look again to be sure of the name), but I still see no reason to out what it is.

Also, how would that even work? Aren't night actions resolved at the end of the night? If it's intended for you to use on the same night, that's a pretty bad system as shos could have waited until DL to submit his action.

Well, yes, that's true. So do you think that scum-shos or town-shos would be more likely to wait until DL to give me the item?

Wait a minute. You're claiming you received and used an object N1. You do not clear shos with this information until D3. You don't know what it did as of D2 (shortly after you supposedly used it). You deflect serra's question.

Congratulations. You've completely destroyed my town read on you.

As serrapaladin's claim makes this mylo, I've changed my mind.

I am in favor of a mass claim.

Still no idea why you're so certain this is MYLO.

Rufflig, do you really think I would set up my scumbuddy like that?

When shos first claimed inventor I already intended to use my ability to block Voided so as to implicate shos. That's why D2 I was so interested in the ability shos gave him and whether he could confirm shos. For your theory about us to make sense, we would have had to plan his sacrifice N1, which is entirely far-fetched.

Voided, if you allegedly didn't use shos' skill last night but N1, did you use another skill last night that I blocked?

Okay, so you blocked Voided to prevent him from using the ability he got and thereby clearing shos? You've claimed survivor and that you'd "rather win with town". Blocking voided (and thus preventing him from clearing shos) is a pretty damn anti-town move. Considering your "scumreads" at the start of D3 were me and shos, why didn't you block one of us?

[Syryana]

I'm simply telling you what I know has happened. If I knew why, I'd have explained by now.

You're saying the item shos sent you used itself?

That's a load of crap. Shos gives you an ability N1. Thanks to NAR, you get it at D2 start. There's no way for you to use it N1.

Or possibly it's used at the start of D2?

So you

got

the item N1, and

used

it during the day on Day 2. Is that correct?

No.

i recieved and used an object N1. That is correct.

I cleared shos wth this on D2, and thought I was reconfirming this fact on D3, though I did not realize Serra was asking me about N2 and not N1 at the time. Perhaps not that it was used (I did not necessarily see the point of saying what I got and if it was used at the time), but at the very least that I did recieve something.

I did know what it did as of D2, I just simply haven't told you all yet (and I won't unless we're all massclaiming or I'm at L-1+hammer claim). I said I didn't exactly recall the name of the ability when I was originally asked D2, but I have known since I got it what it did.

Wait, now you used it N1 again? I'm confused. Where did you clear shos in D2? I don't see you clearing shos until D3.

How did I deflect his question?

He was attempting to discern how you used this gadget thing. You changed the topic.

Pedit: This makes no sense, the wiki implies that gadgets must be used by the person holding it. It sort of using itself and you getting some kind of confirmatory information is crazy talk.

[Syryana]

Hey serra.

In post 959, serrapaladin wrote:
But that's the thing: I can't. I have no idea who they are, and if we mislynch at 2/6 scum left, there's nothing stopping scum from just nightkilling me for the unshared victory. I literally have no incentive to vote with scum unless it's LyLo, and even then I'd rather win with town. Lynching me will take you to actual MyLo.

How do you know what MYLO is?

Add to that: How do you know 2 scum are left?

[Syryana]

Where are we on mass claim?

I'm good with it.

[Syryana]

Umm, so let me get this straight...

Ruff is a neighbor, who targeted Voided and confirmed his alignment
Voided somehow thought that Ruff's confirmation was thanks to the invention
Shos is no longer conf town
Ruff is now conf town

Is that more or less it?

[Syryana]

But you haven't used the thing he gave you, so how can you say that?

[Syryana]

He's confirmed INVENTOR because I got the damn thing. What part of that hasn't been understood since D2?

The only thing that we have yet to prove is if he's conftown or not by it's usage.

I thought you meant confirmed inventor as in confirmed not-malfunctioning, not confirmed he gives people tin shit.

[Syryana]

Fuck it, we've got a majority support on massclaim.

I'm a sibling. Popcorn Voided.

[Syryana]

Syryana offered me a puppy.
BB voted me.
Obvious choice~

A BB wagon is more interesting than a Syryana wagon.

I think this might be the scummiest post I've ever seen you make.

!vote Tierce

So does this actually mean that shos is conftown now? If Rufflig's sourcecode is correct, Malfunctioning Inventor couldn't have given out Psych.

If that's the case, I can't really see a situation in which both Voided and Syry are town.

He dug that out from an old version of Xylbot. I don't think we can make that assumption tbh.

Why does one of {Syryana, Voided} have to be scum?

Serra's claim sounds like a crock of shit btw.

If you thought that, why didn't you hammer him?

Pedit: I think several people have now asked you why you think I'm scum, Molla. Answer the goddamn question.

[Syryana]

Well perhaps not completely impossible, but I can't really see 2 of {Tierce, BB, OS} being scum.

Why not?

Particularly given we're at an odd number, I think Voided/ Syry is a good shout.

Of course you do. If you're a survivor as you claim, then it's a twofer. If you're scum, you either win outright (assuming three scum or two scum with kill/recruit abilities) or get to LyLo (assuming two scum with no extra kill/recruit abilities).

Why don't you give updated cases on why either of us is scum?

[Syryana]

I fucking knew it. I hate you all.

[Syryana]

<3

I knew the second Tierce came back and didn't shit all over you that you both were scum.

Unfortunately nobody in this town listens to me, (damn you BBMolla)

[Syryana]

Still think the lynch on Syr was stupid. I'm not one to talk about stupidity, obviously, but I really can't believe that lynch happened.

Ask shos and BBMolla.

Apparently I'm stupid for claiming and outing that I was voteblocked :/

[Syryana]

Still think the lynch on Syr was stupid. I'm not one to talk about stupidity, obviously, but I really can't believe that lynch happened.

Ask shos and BBMolla.

Apparently I'm stupid for claiming and outing that I was voteblocked :/

You're not, but claiming sibling made it auto-win for scum. You couldn't have known.
Parama has no grounds to be criticizing anyone's play in this game, at all, so take that with a grain of salt.

My main problem was I didn't know who my sibling was. If I'd known it was Voided I would have claimed something else.

To be honest, claiming sibling didn't really hurt. It was MYLO, after all. The mafia could have mislynched anyone and won. The only way forward for the town was to no lynch and then not have one of the siblings night killed. As the town was not going to no lynch, the claim of sibling didn't matter.

No, we should have lynched serra like I was yelling at people to do all day. Then even if we siblings had died it would have been 3v2.