Micro 158: borkgame (Game Over)

[Varsoon]

I'm not even a hydra.
I'm just... me.

RVS voting is for losers.

[Varsoon]

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

[Varsoon]

Sorry, Selkies, really worn out and stuff.
I literally just got on the gloss what's going on and confirm that I'm in the game and stuff.

That said, seems like typical RVS lameness.

[Varsoon]

And Varsson ansers while I am typing ok.

Sorry, I wish I was capable of knowing when you were typing.

I actually didn't realize there was a second page so I was replying to the hydra discussion on the first one.

There's no such thing as RVS. Users invent it. I don't know. It's too complicated for me to parse out right now.

[Varsoon]

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

>"Hey he's doing something scummy, right?"
>No vote

VOTE: Varsoon

Explain those "absolute statements" please.

Don't need to put votes on people right now. Don't need to put a vote on a person if you think they're scummy.
Try reading.

[Varsoon]

Just woke up, rolling over the thread.
When I get some more time, I'll address the posts that talk about me and the overall state of the game.
Sorry for being so inactive so far, you guys are pretty good at posting outside of my usual active hours.

[Varsoon]

Other than what's been asked so far in the thread,
does anyone have any other questions for me?
I guess you will once I give the mammoth post I'll likely be dropping later.

Glad to be in another game with people from my first, I kinda liked you guys. Doesn't rule you outta being scum in this one though. We'll see. Right now I have some scum reads. Gonna try to avoid nulls.

[Varsoon]

Personally, I feel like I'm a little snarky. I don't really like when other people are jerks, though.
Newbie 1339 is my first completed game.
Mini 1441 is a game where I am quick hammered out of RVS and I disagree with people being jerks.
Currently also enrolled in Mini 157 and Newbie 1356.

[Varsoon]

I should really Spoiler tag this out.
I have an hour and a half.
I might do it.
You might see.

POST 87 (ICEBOX):

Spoiler:

Why would you not put your vote on a person who you think is scummy?
Also I would prefer hearing you explain with your own words rather than going back and read. What do you mean by "absolute statements?"

@P-Edit: Sven wat

I didn't put my vote on someone I thought as scummy that early because I was making that statement in passing. Furthermore, I didn't want to start a wagon nearly as much as I wanted to gauge the reaction of that player and other players. Stating someone is scummy and not placing a vote is a bit on an unconventional play, neh? It's sure to get the ball rolling

somewhere

.
In regards to absolute statements, I mean ones like "If X, then Y." I noticed a few, and those are really indicative of a manipulative rhetoric that is trying to have the game played in a certain way. You should know that the only rules inherit to Mafia are the ones posted by the Mod. So, yes, in some cases, an 'If X, then Y' statement can be taken to be an iteration of actual rules, but in most cases, it falls under a thought-process that eliminates other variables. Eliminating variables, while the purpose of the game, is also something that scum makes use of in order to better control the flow of the game in their favor. The whole point of town is to discern when that happens. If this makes no sense, /shrug. I'm better at explaining more obtuse things in person. Maybe I'll vocaroo it for you or we can do a skype call.

POST 88 (RACHMARIE):

Spoiler:

@ Varsoon do you have any completed games on site to show that you always do not participate in RVS? No matter what your alignment is?

hmm Sven not sure how to answer that.... I guess I tend to lurk more as scum? Unless I am lurking in all my games due to RL issues...

If you want links to scum and town games for meta, would be happy to provide them for anyone in the game actually not just you.

PEDIT

Which player would that be?

I have one completed game on the site. I did not participate in RVS, but, rather, provided a noob-oriented litmus test based around forcing a post-quota so that I could better gauge the other players in a game where I was the only true noob. It got the ball rolling.
RVS is, to me, a construction made by players because no one knows good ways to begin a game. Or, if they do, they're not putting them into effect. Either way, randomly parking votes is, and will always be, a foolish procedure. I'll get into more of how I feel about RVS and how games should run early on in order to promote a better game experience. Of course, scum love RVS because it allows them the disorientation and clean slate they need in order to win as scum. From the perspective outside of alignment, though? I can't stand RVS.

Meta is a poor strategy to ISO someone. While a certain degree of intertextuality should be assumed, it's much more conducive to play as if nothing exists but this game. More times than not, Meta will complicate things unnecessarily, and all the information you need is within the game currently happening anyway. If it isn't, coax it into being. If you can't, then you will lose the game, no matter which alignment you are.

POST 91 (ICEBOX):

Spoiler:

@Rach: Varsoon doesn't do RVS. I was with him last game and he didn't do it. (He was town.)

I don't like doing it.
I'll sometimes post early-game nonsense, but it's usually nonsense with the express purpose of actually getting the game started.
Regardless, please forget about last game.
I was town last game.
You won't know if I am town or not this game until I flip.
So earlier suppositions on my playstyle or how I play as town/scum should be null.
See the previous spoiler for how I feel in regards to Meta.
That said, I'm glad to be in a game with you because I know you're both competent players. It'll be fun.

POST 104 (DOESBOKNOW):

Spoiler:

Okay, just started reading for realsies.

Gonna try to post my main thoughts so far; I'll try writing this with my own thought process, meaning I'll type what I think as I read and no worries about repeating anyone's logic.

Firstly, I noticed something skimming through the topic that people were reading each others' games. I'm not meta-ing anyone. Takes too much time. Meta me if you want (check my wiki), but try to limit questions about my meta in here to a minimum.

On to the read:

#27: Rach is concerned that Selkies is pushing a Sven wagon when 1. no one formally agreed and 2. the wagon clearly isn't a wagon yet. Selkie's push could be taken as a joke, or something, but Rach's concern is real, but my gut tells me it's not town-concern.

#33: Sven's reaction reads terribad here. Also calls Rach townie even though she's done basically

nothing

townie. At most, her 27 is suspicious.

#43: Icebox's been posting fluff by page 2. OH SHIT SCUMTELL. (But not really.)

#50: Varsoon comes in and says something is super scum, yet doesn't vote. So I can't tell if he's serious or not. If he were serious, he probably should've voted here; after all, it wouldn't have been an RVS reason.

#52: So he does think it's still RVS here. Clearly wasn't being serious in 50. Okay.

#58: No explanation as to why his reads literally swapped. Cool. Scumpoints for Sven.

#60: Majiffy comes in, likes wagons. Probably not all that into RVS junk either.

#62: Didn't count the votes, but Majiffy's wagon vote was L-1...not comfortable with this, but L-1 wagons can dish a lot of good info.

#70: Oh goodness...anyone unvoting an L-1 wagon doesn't make them townie. Scum and town both do this: townies are concerned their read isn't good, scummies may do it to know that person will flip town.

but

#71: Sven still asks Rach questions after his unvote. And then asks her to rank people from town to scum when there's barely anything on the table.

And

, she could be dead at any time, so her reads can help the scum target people (maybe, but whatevs); Rach is town if Sven is scum, most likely.

#72: Shrugging L-1 off isn't a scumtell. Ape shit over a vote that you don't even know is serious yet? I find that worse. Maybe that's just me.

#73: Rach is so townie here, tbh. Calmly answers Sven's questions, seems sincere, willing to listen to reason even though she has suspicions.

#83: Icebox pulls Varsoonscum out of thin air, even though he's posted after that fact.

But

, apparently can't see Varsoon's other posts noting how not-serious the entire RVS business was. Hm...maybe keeping a closer eye on this. Might not mean much, but as scum, I can argue with my scumbuddy while there's a bigger picture happening, make a lot of noise, and quiet it back down.

#85: I usually am the one to say vote someone you think is the most scummy, but Varsoon seems pretty content not voting. Voting isn't only to ensure people know your position on your top scumread; also creates wagons that will reveal more information, maybe takes into account certain roles, etc. Also, Varsoon immediately silences Icebox here. Can't see them being a scumteam.

tl;dr
VOTE: Sven
Majiffy has some splainin' to do.
Icebox pulling Varsoon out of nowhere is weird.
Rach is probtown.
Selkies is probtown.
Varsoon is neutral, can't read him very well ATM.

Feel free to ask me questions about any of my reads so far, though.

Disturbed_One and Jennifer should post.

Does Bo Know? Pffft, 'course not. Nice to finally be in a game with you, as I haven't had a conversation with you since I graduated highschool.
Check earlier spoilers for how I feel about the Meta deal.
I meta girl once, it turned out horribly.
Dohoho.

On the real, I like this method of using posts, but it also threads attention like a needle. It’s good for town and scum to use this, so I’m going to be pretty critical of you for it.

In response to you looking at me: Pretty on the nose. I wasn’t being serious, but I was trying to see who’d try to exploit the information I provided and who’d write it off. To be honest, I don’t know what’s scummier. I’d say exploitation, since we’re all experienced players, but WIFOM’ll have me believe that we’re so experienced and savvy that we’d purposely call it out as nonsense reaction-bait and leave it there. So /shrug.

I don’t like how you’re simultaneously vindicating Rach while putting suspicion on Sven, Icebox, and Majiffy. However, it strikes me as a genuine town play, so I’ll chalk it up to me over-thinking things.

If you can’t read me very well, put on glasses. Seriously, though, I want to be as transparent as possible, so hit me with questions until you feel good about an alignment read. Null reads are useless.

POST 130 (DOESBOKNOW):

Spoiler:

Also, I'm liking this game's activity so far. Much better than the other Micro's I'm in, already 6 pages deep and it's only been like 6 hours.

I'm going to bed soon then school tomorrow, any other big questions you need to ask me between now and...lunch time tomorrow?

PEdit: Was going to question Rach about her 127, but Selkies beat me to it. So I want to know that too.

Activity tends to be a good thing. Content is the name of the game. Well, the name of the game is Mafiascum, but content is important too, you know?
I don't even know why I quoted this.
Oh, it was to make a joke.
KYAAAH~ You're asking me to lunch tomorrow?!

Jokes aside, you seem open to allowing other players to interrogate you, so I'm putting you further in town territory.

POST 141 (SELKIES):

Spoiler:

#83: Icebox pulls Varsoonscum out of thin air, even though he's posted after that fact.

But

, apparently can't see Varsoon's other posts noting how not-serious the entire RVS business was. Hm...maybe keeping a closer eye on this. Might not mean much, but as scum, I can argue with my scumbuddy while there's a bigger picture happening, make a lot of noise, and quiet it back down.

This is good. Let’s ISO Icebox and see what we find.

Icebox is GiF and Rememberance (

Rem is the goofy one, but he is funny and entertaining

)..

Selkies you are Orc and ?

VOTE: Rachmarie Blatant, buddying. Sheep me.

If this is a serious reason, it really sucks. It’s not buddying; it’s just pointing out that somebody is enjoyable to play with. If this is a RVS vote, I’m not seeing what it’s achieving.

How is telling the truth buddying? I think I mentioned in the Newbie game we were in together that I really liked your style and thought you were funny and very entertaining to read?

Hey I can be funny too.

Scum 1: yo dawg how did u escape the town tunnel
Scum 2: dat B eazie bro. I just AtE my way out!

...ok it was terrible.

I also don’t like how Icebox effectively dodged Rach’s question here. It looks a bit like scum trying to end a conversation.

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

>"Hey he's doing something scummy, right?"
>No vote

VOTE: Varsoon

Explain those "absolute statements" please.

So first off, no mention whatsoever of the Rach wagon at L-1. At all. It’s a mine of information, much more than anything we’ve had so far, you have two people, and you failed to comment on it? Really?
Let’s examine who Icebox votes for instead. Varsoon, who just entered the thread. Icebox votes Varsoon for a legit reason, and at this point in time I’m thinking Vars is scum too for that dodge in 52 (I’ll explain a Vars case later—is he normally this snarky?).
But I still don’t like how both heads are ignoring the main discussion right now, and just looks like circling the bandwagon (where RM is concerned). And I think Icebox should know what these absolute statements are, and that this last question was fluff.

Why would you not put your vote on a person who you think is scummy?
Also I would prefer hearing you explain with your own words rather than going back and read. What do you mean by "absolute statements?"

@P-Edit: Sven wat

The first question is decent, but not the rest of this post. Okay so now we have a blatant refusal to read the thread of the game you’re playing in…after allegedly doing a meta case on Fery and I? This doesn’t seem real to me. And why exactly would you want someone to explain “absolute statements”—what are you hoping to get out of Varsoon? We all know what he’s going to answer, it won’t be alignment indicative. Bad question to mask as scumhunting. And I feel like even this jump on Varsoon seems like trying to find an easy target to avoid the whole Rach business. What would you have done if Varsoon replied to your pressure by voting Sven?

@Rach: Varsoon doesn't do RVS. I was with him last game and he didn't do it. (He was town.)

Sure.

It's night time and it's time to sneak my vote off while GIF isn't looking.

VOTE: RachMarie

Read Sven as town for unvoting her.
Then read Bo as town for defending her slot and voting Sven.

@Bo thoughts?

Okay, why did you avoid talk about the L-1 wagon if you thought Rach was scummy? This is also a pretty weak case to make on Rach, compared to everything that has been said. Not necessarily scummy though.

Also, I'm liking this game's activity so far. Much better than the other Micro's I'm in, already 6 pages deep and it's only been like 6 hours.

I'm going to bed soon then school tomorrow,

any other big questions

you need to ask me between now and...lunch time tomorrow?

PEdit: Was going to question Rach about her 127, but Selkies beat me to it. So I want to know that too.

Only question that matters: Are you scum?

So much fluff.

VOTE: Icebox

First of all, please learn to format your posts in a way that makes them easier to quote and respond to.


Since I’m town, and I know I’m town, I can deduce instantly that I’m not in a scumteam with Icebox. This doesn’t mean Icebox isn’t trying to buddy me, and it’s pretty easy to do, considering we were in a game with each other before and he totally duped me and got a scumwin. It might be my last game talking, but I’m leaning scummier towards Icebox just because of that, and it’s not a good mentality for me to have. Regardless, I do see a level of buddying, and I have to discern if it’s simply because Icebox is acknowledging me from the previous game or if he’s scum. I don’t like the scumbluffs so far (Post 28), either.

Okay, I did laugh at the AtE my way out part. I also agree that it was a dodge, but LOLRVS.
Can we make LOLRVS a thing?
Fuck RVS.

I agree with your Icebox post, but I’m also preeeetty wary of you. Here’s why.
In a game-climate where a wagon just failed, you make a compelling case against Icebox.
Good scum-hunting, or scum trying to start another wagon with some inertia this time?
We’ll see. We’ll see.

POST 143 (SELKIES):

Spoiler:

Varsoon's posts are pretty bad too.

RVS voting is for losers.

Sorry, Selkies, really worn out and stuff.
I literally just got on the gloss what's going on and confirm that I'm in the game and stuff.

That said, seems like typical RVS lameness.

And Varsson ansers while I am typing ok.

Sorry, I wish I was capable of knowing when you were typing.

I actually didn't realize there was a second page so I was replying to the hydra discussion on the first one.

There's no such thing as RVS. Users invent it. I don't know. It's too complicated for me to parse out right now.

Okay so we get it that Varsoon doesn't like RVS. Just out of curiosity, how would you start a game? Because you've been blessed with information by people who have started RVS, and we actually weren't in RVS at the time of your posts. Why are you avoiding all of the information going on--do you honestly think htere's nothing in the first 2 pages worth commenting on? Not even Sven's outburst?

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

>"Hey he's doing something scummy, right?"
>No vote

VOTE: Varsoon

Explain those "absolute statements" please.

Don't need to put votes on people right now. Don't need to put a vote on a person if you think they're scummy.
Try reading.

Well actually you sort of do.

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

Here's the offending post. This to me is weird like hell--first off, if RVS is so useless and you think everything so far has been boring RVS, how did you come up with this alignment-indicative information? Why are absolute statements inherently scummy? And if you're calling someone super-scum, I'd imagine you'd also put down a vote to pressure them or at least drive conversation in some way. Where's the vote?

And are you normally this snarky in games?

I think there's at least one scum between Varsoon and Icebox.

If by bad, you mean… awesome?

Here’s how I’d start a game, and I hope that you’re either ready for dinner or sitting on a toilet because it’ll be a mouthful and it’ll make you shit yourself:
RVS is terrible. Since there’s no real information on any players, the game can only truly begin when there is content posted. However, typical RVS conventions avoid posting meaningful content. This is not conducive to the game and distracts from real reads and worthwhile reactions.
How should RVS be handled?
There is only one thing that you can responsibly, reliably post during RVS and that’s a reaction test. Refer to my first noob game for this one. While different reaction tests should be used for different games, I’ve been trying to work through a method to use in all games that will be applicable. I’ll call it “The Varsoon is Awesome Method: Why Scum Can Suck It.” Here goes:
You begin a game by randomly selecting one of the players. Everyone agrees to put that player at L-(scum). Because he’s at L-(scum), if he’s quickhammered, someone hammering is pretty much confirmed to be scum. Once at L-(scum), the player has to make their case for being town and why they shouldn’t be lynched.
Why does this work, and when doesn’t it?
It works because it gets the game rolling immediately, it has focus (even if being a construct of the game), and it gives every player content to work with. I’ve noticed most RVS end when a wagon begins, and by forcing a wagon to be at L-(scum), you move the game along instantly to the end of RVS without any of the fluff or other rubbish. If the information garnered from this procedure is inadequate, you can repeat it for every player until it gives enough. The only case where it doesn’t work is when town decides to be 100% of the hammering vote, which is town playing against its wincon in 9 out of 10 cases.

At the time of my posts, we were still in a shitty game state. Sure, it wasn’t complete RVS, but it was terrible.

If you read my posts, you’d know that I was ‘avoiding’ what was going on (nice twist there, bro) because I was glossing the thread and going to sleep.

We have different thoughts on the power of the vote and how the vote should be used. Glad you like absolutes, though.

As far as your response to my post-50, this is exactly why I made it. I actually talk about this in an earlier spoiler, but you fell for the trap.

I’m normally normal in games. Also, I agree, there is at least one scum between me, Icebox, and you. PoE lets me know it’s not me, and your posts let me know it’s likely you.

POST 146 (ICEBOX):

Spoiler:

Ok. This is what is happening.

Rem thinks Rach is scummy based on her meta and stuff. Me, not so much convinced.

I have played a game with Varsoon before, and the way I'm doing (at least, was doing, thanks to Rem) is the best way to read Varsoon for me, since his thought process is pretty easy to follow. While talking with Varsoon this way, I can see his motive behind his posts easily. Hence my push there. Also about not knowing "absolute statement" is: I'm serious on this one. English is not my native language and sometimes I have hard time understanding some of the words/concept/etc.

Also those "fluffs," well that's Rem for you.

So while Rem is not here, let me continue to do my stuff.
VOTE: Varsoon

Also about those push on Rach, I'll let Rem explain those.

-G

You're a sweetheart.
When I say 'absolute statement', I mean one that says that something can only be one certain way. An 'if X, then Y' statement, for instance. Here's some examples:
If you vote for me, you're scum.
If you're not with me, you're against me.
Anyone who is on this wagon is scum.
That sort of post is scummy.

Avoid this sort of posting. Why? It locks in a certain kind of thinking and guides the game too much. It's more town (in my book) to write things like:
I think that scumbluffing is a scummy tactic.
It's likely that at least one person on this wagon is scum.
I've got to figure at least one person voting for me is scum.

So on and so on. It's not only a matter of presentation, but of meaning.
But, to be fair, my comment about absolute statements and my scum-read without a vote was really reaction testing more than it was serious posting. It, for the most part, worked out.
I always try to be as open as possible so other people can work through my thought process. I'm sure it makes me vulnerable, but this game works a lot better when people know what you're doing. It makes getting a read easier, I find.

Please don't lynch or NK me, I really like this game.

POST 148 AND 169 (DISTURBED ONE):

Spoiler:

VOTE: RachMarie

Okay so as for my RachMarie vote, it was actually intended to be an RVS vote. I somehow didn't see any other posts past from day 1, so the vote I made was based on the information I had read from there.

I have read through the 7 pages now with some slight skimming, at the moment I'm most convinced of Sven being scum because of the case Bo made in post 104.

UNVOTE: RachMarie[/uvote]
VOTE: Svenskt

Will continue to read and form more opinions.

I don't like your instant vote on the Rach wagon and I don't like the way you've positioned yourself in response to that vote. It just reads really scummy to me.

POST 187 (JENNIFER):

Spoiler:

Wow, you guys move fast! 7 pages, L-1... anyway, hi!

VOTE: Varsoon

Reading through, I don't see why RachMarie got to L-1 instead of Varsoon.
- Varsoon: I really don't like that he said Sven was "kinda super scum" but didn't vote him. If he has a reason to think someone is scum, it's no longer a random vote so the "NO RVS philosophy" isn't even applicable.

That said, I don't like that RachMarie hasn't voted anyone since her RVS vote on Majiffy, despite actively engaging in the game.

@RachMarie
- Why haven't you voted anybody since your RVS vote?
- Why did you provide an answer on why Majiffy voted for you instead of waiting for Majiffy to come back in the thread and explain?

@Varsoon
- Why are you not voting your scum read? And, at this point with this much content, I think it's safe to say there is enough meat here that we aren't in RVS anymore (or user-defined RVS since you don't believe in it). Do you agree?
- Can you provide a better answer to Icebox's question on what "absolute statements" you thought Sven was making. Your answer in post 85 didn't make sense to me and didn't read as responsive.

@Sven
- Please explain why Selkies is a town lean for you.

@Majiffy
Why the vote on RachMarie?

@DisturbedOne
- Can you explain what posts you read before your initial vote on RachMarie. You said that you meant it to be RVS and hadn't seen other posts since Day 1, but since we're in Day 1 I'm not sure what that means...
- Why are you voting Sven?

@Icebox
- Why did you switch your vote back to RachMarie?
- Were you satisfied with Varsoon's answers to your question?
- Why does Rach seem scummier to you than Varsoon?

@Bo
- Why do you think Icebox is weird for 'pulling Varsoon out of nowhere' but don't commend on the weirdness of voting Rach after not even getting much of a response from Varsoon?
- Do you think town always fully explain their reads/changes in reads?

@Selkies
- What made you choose to vote Icebox over Varsoon?

I won't have a chance to post again until later today or tomorrow because I'm in meetings and then have a flight home. Catch up with you all later!

p-edit Argh... tried to submit and saw that like 20 new posts popped up. Won't have time to read/respond to those now.

I think I answered your questions in the other spoilers.
Anyway, I wasn't put at L-1 because I'm not scum.
I made myself way too easy of a target though, and I think that's what you're acknowledging here.
Either way, I like the rest of your post. It's a good way to engage.

Okay, wheh, only took me a little over an hour. Yay.
That said, here's my reads. Nulls are anti-town, so no Nulls:

Disturbed_One: Scum.
Does Bo Know: Town.
Icebox: Town.
Jennifer: Town.
Majiffy: Scum.
RachMarie: Town.
Selkies: Scum.
Svenskt Stål: Scum.

Splits it down the middle, doesn't it. 4 scum and 4 town? Really, though, my scumdar goes:
Selkies < Svenkst = Disturbed < Majiffy.

Towndar:
Rach = Jennifer > Icebox > Does Bo Know.


Oh, but to be fair, Selkies is the biggest scum-read for me right now. Absolute statements aside, he's put me in a position where I have to pick between him and Icebox, and Icebox is reading town to me.

VOTE: Selkies

[Varsoon]

Oh nuts, can someone fix that spoiler tag for me?

[Varsoon]

I thiiink I also can't do greater than and less than signs right. @_@

Read that as Selkies being most scum and Does Bo Know being least.

[Varsoon]

Oh nuts, can someone fix that spoiler tag for me?

Done.

Thanks, bro.

[Varsoon]

Everyone is so active and I gotta meet up with a dude for lunch so this'll be a quick in and out.
Mafia resembles my romantic endeavors more and more every day.

@Jennifer:
- I think Icebox is weird for pulling that out because he never mentioned anything about it earlier, when it definitely happened much earlier. Maybe that's partially a hydra thing where one head didn't see it and the other one was catching up. I don't think it's weird how Icebox switched to RachMarie in that situation because one head sees Varsoon as the best vote, one has RachMarie.
- No, I don't think town always fully explains their reads, but explaining reads does give more information, this information leads toward more discussion, so it's a good thing it happens; whether the actual reads are right though, is a different judgment.

Sven's comment on "increasing the heat on him" and being fairly reactive

in the same post

just adds to the juicy scumness.

I don't like how heavily convinced Varsoon is that Selkies is the best vote. His case seems too weak. Also, while he may not believe in voting in RVS, I don't think it's very good to completely ignore the RVS in a game and not take it into account.

As far as my simultaneously vindicating Rach as town and others as scum, I often make links in my head thinking "These two can't be a scum team" because it can help my PoE in the long run if I ever need it to make a decision. If you don't believe me, check my meta, but it's clear how you feel about that. I respect it, anyway. Meta's not worth my time.

Now here's the thing: I knew Varsoon IRL a while back, like four years ago. Dude's clever. I'm not surprised he placed a trap with post 50. I'm not surprised he placed a post-quota trap in his first newbie game. So I don't think he's lying, especially when he tries to describe how things can be better than RVS.

@Varsoon
- In your "method" of getting the game rolling, how does the agreed person that has the L-(scum) wagon convince the rest of the people that they're town? Like, what content should they use to defend themselves?
- Did you ever give a solid reason as to why you think Sven is your 2nd/3rd scum read?
- Is there any reason you prefer a vote on Selkies (making him a lame L-4) over Sven, your 2nd/3rd scum read (making him a more-productive L-2 wagon)?

Varsoon, are you here?

Only half of Selkies is pro RVS. /jecklyll-hyde

-f

Why is opinion on RVS even alignment indicative

It's not. Town or scum, I won't do RVS unless/until I'm convinced that I'm missing pro-team opportunities by not putting down substance-lite votes.

This is addressed to Bo and Varsoon

Bo: Why are you and Varsoon still stuck on asking RVS related questions, considering that it's not alignment indicative

Don't like Selkies' 141. Probably because I have a firm townread on Ice, and this looks like opportunistic fabrication of a case.

Really don't like 143 either. Looks like lining up lynches. This can die.
VOTE: Selkies

DBK, I could kiss you for how town you are. Let's be friends.

I just remembered that Majiffy doesn't play RVS.

Get this man a prize for such an astute observation anyone that has played with me (read: 75% of the playerlist) should have made 5 pages ago.

So I would love to hear from Majiffy why he voted Rach to L-1.

The reason I gave in the post I voted her in.

Waginz.

I

do not

like the Varsoon wagon. Not for any particular reason, I haven't payed much attention to the actual reasons being given, but I don't like how it's building. No excitement, just a lot of ... votes. I'll be starting here when I finish catching up.

I may have missed it but what the fuck is NLS?

Lets do this until I think of something better

VOTE MAJIFFY

.

Play with fire, you gon' get burned.

I meta girl once, it turned out horribly.
Dohoho.

Get the fuck out, lol

Anyway I like this post as a whole. You can be town too.

And actually, here you say that you weren't even sure what you should make of people calling you out for post 50.

This is almost laughable.

God I am really disliking every post you make.

Majiffy, nice start. But what is so town about icebox hydra slip?

It wasn't the slip, it was the post itself.

Seemed to come from a town mindset.

Oh I missed that you had bo doesnt know as town, we should discuss that.

Yeah lets discuss your poor choice of a vote. Why are you voting DBK? He's pretty much my strongest townread.

Workin on it fuckers. Y'all are fast.

WTF???

Why are we voting Svenskt?

UNVOTE: Svenskt

-f

I didn't put my vote on someone I thought as scummy that early because I was making that statement in passing. Furthermore, I didn't want to start a wagon nearly as much as I wanted to gauge the reaction of that player and other players. Stating someone is scummy and not placing a vote is a bit on an unconventional play, neh? It's sure to get the ball rolling somewhere.

Why do you think facking "being scummy" is a good idea for getting a reaction?

Regardless, please forget about last game.
I was town last game.
You won't know if I am town or not this game until I flip.

My point was that you don't do RVS regardless of your alignment.

But, to be fair, my comment about absolute statements and my scum-read without a vote was really reaction testing more than it was serious posting. It, for the most part, worked out.

What kind of reaction were you expecting to get from doing so?

@Majiffy:

That tree.

Stop barking up it.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

-G

For fucks sake STOP RESPONDING IN BOLD INSIDE THE QUOTE IT TURNS INTO A FUCKING FORMATTING NIGHTMARE

Just throughly read Varsoon's #200. That's town as hell and I see no need to continue this further.
UNVOTE:

But my questions still stand.

Dropping our RVS discussion in lieu of it not leading us anywhere. It's interesting, and you can PM me post-game if you want to chat.
Sven and Selk are my highest scumreads right now.
If both flip town, seriously gonna reconsider my Icebox and Majiffy reads.
Pretty stable on everyone else.
Selk, I hate your formatting.
Bork, that's such a slip, c'mon man. When I build a case against you, I won't forget this.
We're voting Sven because he's scummy.
A Sven wagon would have been easier for me to push, but that's too easy and I feel strongly about my Selk vote and wagon a lot more. Why? Reasons. He'll get them after he squirms a bit longer.
Icebox, gonna get to your questions now, but I'm glad that I could vindicate myself. I was bummed out about my role-pm, but I hope I can pull us a town win this time instead of how I was pretty much responsible for our loss last time:
Faking scumminess is good for early reaction tests, even if it gets you quickhammered because you'll flip town and it'll narrow the suspects to the wagon. Also, it generates content from reactions.
RVS is a player-construction and I don't like to take part in it.
I was expecting it to be another scum litmus test. The different extremes and genuine levels of response where what I was looking for, as well as content to work with outside of LOLRVS. While there was some RVS-generated content, I wasn't satisfied with it.

Anyway,

VOTE: Selkies
VOTE: Selkies
VOTE: Selkies
VOTE: Selkies
VOTE: Selkies

That's five votes, get lynched.

[Varsoon]

Faking scumminess is good for early reaction tests, even if it gets you quickhammered because you'll flip town and it'll narrow the suspects to the wagon. Also, it generates content from reactions.

Disagree to an extent. It DOES, but you need to be able to get yourself out of the hole you dig. If you can't, and you get lynched, VCA on the wagon is often useless as town and scum will both be jumping on for the same reason - you were being legitimately scummy.

Exactly my point. If you can't make yourself as transparent as possible, you lose as town. That's what town failure is, it's inability to command rhetoric.
Ironically, that's the same for scum failure.

Faking scumminess is good for early reaction tests, even if it gets you quickhammered because you'll flip town and it'll narrow the suspects to the wagon. Also, it generates content from reactions.

This is

What

"Fake scumminess"

"People who vote you are now scum instead of scumhunting town who look for, oh idk, scumminess?"

What

At this point, I'm feeling like we both think in a very different way and the way we engage the game is wholly opposite. This also may be due to the fact that I'm town and you're scum, but I think that ideology is more typical than alignment-based modes of thought.

Varsoon, if you've answered this before I apologize for asking again.

Aside from here at MS have you played much mafia?

- f

No, this is my first exposure. I was introduced to the game by another player on this site who is also acquaintances with me and Does Bo Know. As of now, I have only ever completed one game of Mafia in my life, and it was on this site.

Varsoon's post 200 is so spoiler-filled that I'm not gong to try to quote it and insert my observations.

I asked earlier about mafia experience and that post is bristling with mafia theory (rather unique theory in my estimation) so I'll retract that question.
His reply to Bo's 104 is interesting. He explains that his non-voting post about scummy absolute statements was a reaction test, but seems ambivalent about the utility of such testing.

His reply to other-Selkies' post 141 struck me as unintentional irony. He asks that we format our posts so that they are easier to quote and respond to in a post that I'm discouraged from quoting and responding to. :/

Reply to other-Selkies' post 143:

More interesting game theory. I think I remember reading a game played to this theory once. It was painful to read. One town special after another was put to L-1, and forced to out before a vanilla townie was finally lynched. I lost interest after reading into day 2 and found something less depressing to do.

Here the previously ambivalent reaction test is now a trap, which other-Selkies has haplessly wandered into.

Will get to his scum reads in a bit.

@Varsoon, I'm reluctant to just dismiss this as scummy. I'm going to break down and read your previous MS game.

- f

It's hard to respond to roughly 10 pages of posts without either saying too little or being hard to cite. I'm sorry about that. Consider keeping your own posts and responses as concise as possible and do as little quoting as possible and then people's responses to you will, ergo, be less convoluted.
I'm sorry the game you read was terrible. I hope that this game isn't terrible, and that my involvement in it doesn't make it so bad for you. The last thing I'd want is for other people to not enjoy the game, since that's its main draw. Again, I think that my way of engaging the game and thinking about it is worlds apart from yours, and that's what is causing such a rift between us.

Our other game is long for the first day, then painfully short afterwards, as I put us in Lylo on a stab in the dark and to move the game forward, but made the mistake of mislynching on the final day instead of suggesting either a no-lynch or thinking it out. I think that I'm just not really happy with the way that longer games pan out, and I feel more attuned towards games with less players. I'unno. Read up.

Anyway, kept reading this and Bo's antagonism of Sven seems off.
I think Ice's assessment of Rach is fairly telling, and I'd like to see what she thinks about it.
Still holding Sven and Selk as my highest scum-reads, Bo's conning as less town to me, Icebox as more town than before.

I judge people based off of the content they produce.
Become transparent in your content,
Prove your alignment.

[Varsoon]

wait what?

Varsoon have you played a Newbie game yet?

You have never played Mafia on another site and this is your 2nd game?


ehh seems like an easy lynch here guys n gals what exactly is your case on him?

Hope you're not serious.
If you are, fuck you.

[Varsoon]

At this point, I'd like short reads from everyone.
I've already given mine.
We need to have a check of who stands where and what we can agree on, and who we think we should collectively pressure.

[Varsoon]

I don't know how accurately I can read her, but she seems town.

And yes, I have Icebox as town.

Bo?

Town.

Have you even read any of my posts? I've given these reads.

Since the tard fight started? Not so much. Too fucking painful to watch. I'll page search your iso for "Bo" later.

I wish you'd respect your fellow players more.
Reads, please.

[Varsoon]

Rach: L.Scum(R)/Null(G)
Sven: L.Scum(G)/Null(R)
Selkies: L.Town(G)/L.Town(R)
Bo: Null(G)/L.Scum(R)
Majiffy: Majiffy
D_O:
Jennifer:
Varsoon: Town(G)/Town(R)

*You may take "Null" as "Didn't really look into yet"

Why are both of you leaning town on Selkies? I'd like an answer from you both.

Would you like to start a wagon on Sven?

@Rach: Sorry for responding so strongly before, I felt like you were calling for a policy lynch on me based on my noob-level. I get what you mean now--and I know. I actually like putting myself in dangerous positions because, even if I die, town can get good reads off of the content produced.

[Varsoon]

Also, people who are actually in here,
Please give reads.
They can be as short or long as you want.
I just feel like now is a good time for us to start a wagon, scum-hunt, and pressure the more questionable players in this game.

[Varsoon]

I have noted Rach playing passively. If she continue to do this, I'm giving her a "L

Agreed, it happened fast. But I would be like "NOOOOOOOO, IDIOTS )"¤)(&"()&(#)"&¤)(&#"()¤! "

She is a rock, I´ll give her that.

I think I am going to include Icebox in to the town.

@varsoon, we should talk.

What's up?

[Varsoon]

In response to Majiffy's 417:
I don't like that you're willing to narrow your two scum suspects to my two top scum suspects, especially now that more players are confirming me as town. I had you in about the middle of my town/scum radar, but this moves you more into the 'buddying scum' area of that grey space.

@Sven: I'd like to see how you respond under pressure, because, while I suspect you're scum, I'm also seeing you as more town after the last few exchanges. It'd also help other players generate some content.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Disturbed One

I'd also like to see more activity from him. It's honestly a better wagon than the Sven one I was hoping to start.

[Varsoon]

IMO we should wait for D_O a bit more. He's a total lurksack when he's scum.

That's the point of my vote.
Gives him some reason to actually come into the game and make himself transparent.

[Varsoon]

the sudden appetite for a D O wagon looks a little hinky to me.

- f

p edit oh snap!

They were still shit when you were pushing them. Just because you've backed off them now doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot.

You haven't been very good at proving this.

Where's your partner at, I want to talk to him more. He seems to have more oxygen getting to his brain.

Can mollie play for you for a while

IMO we should wait for D_O a bit more. He's a total lurksack when he's scum.

That's the point of my vote.
Gives him some reason to actually come into the game and make himself transparent.

Okay this is weird.

You made a case on me. I responded to it. You didn't.

Now you're switching off us to go pressure a lurker, which makes no sense given how steadfast you apparently were in your read of us.

What the hell?

Oh, don't think you're in the clear or that I've just magically decided you're not scum. There's a lot of scum in this game. In fact, it makes more sense for you to say what you just did given you're in a scumteam with Disturbed One.

I swapped my vote to hope to pressure some activity, but to also see how people would react to my vote being swapped--especially you.

Right now, I'm feeling that Majiffy and Selk are scum.
I'd like them to convince me otherwise.
Also, Majiffy, the proper way to respond to someone who calls you out isn't to insult them. I'd post a funny gif or something, but the guy who introduced me to the game told me that scum posts pics, links, and gifs, so I'll keep from doing that. (Yeah, that was a jab at you, Sven. You seem like a bro dude, but I can't shake scum-vibes. Ever see The Wizard? You're like the kid with the Powerglove.)


Anyway, with that done, and with D_O still not posting, I'd like to do something more productive with my vote.
VOTE: Selkies

Prove that you're town to all of us.
Also, please stop scumbluffing.

[Varsoon]

No, I'm just not liking him this game. I've gotten into large-scale arguments with him before, and he's acting very different. Can't remember which Micro, Mollie might know. I'll ask her whenever I catch her online next and I'll fetch you a link.

Mainstream mafia, wouldn't call it any more large scale than this one.

saying that town could win by lynching out of your null and scum reads is most certainly lining up lynches by your reasoning.

We did the same thing. I had (at the time) 2 scum reads, you have 2. Both of us want to lynch out of them. You accused me of lining up lynches--I can do the same to you.

That's your third contradiction of the game, step it up.

Who do you want to lynch, again?

Also, please put your questions all in one post right now and I'll answer them. I don't feel like digging them up, and I'd like to give you the chance to ask anything else you have.

[Varsoon]

I also don't buy any of your "reaction tests" at this point in time.

Let me tell you something. When you reaction test, you MUST tell me what you learnt from the test.

Your first "reaciton test" where you did something deliberately scummy--I called you out for it. I called you out for being scummy, something you agree to. You stated that you didn't know whether or not town or scum would call you out on it.

And then you called me scum for no other reason.

Your second "reaction test" is equally pointless and you have to tell me what you've learned or the exact structuring as the test, because otherwise, it's just you saying scummy shit and then covering it up with an excuse.


You said that we're in a scumteam with DO--seems very unsubstantiated and you need to explain this further.

This is the third time I've asked you to comment on my replies to your 200 or accept them completely, because your 200 case on us was shit through and through.

I wish you'd be a little more specific towards the posts I made, but I'll dredge them up and get back to you.

First of all, it's part of the way that I play to with-hold any information I personally garner from posts and tests. Mafiascum is a game of rhetoric--what is most important is what you put on the page. That's all a person has to read. In this way, posting everything you think and perceive does not equate to good posturing in my mind.

Anyway, into your questions.

I don't like that I must tell -you- what I get from my tests. That's too cynical of a sentence. However, if pressured, I'll give up my reads and what I get out of tests for town's sake. My interactions with Icebox should be reflective of this.

If my first 'test' relates to post 50:
Yes, this is a reaction test. I was deliberately making a scummy move because I know I can defend myself as town, and because, even if I was lynched, I'd flip town and it'd be clear that my wagon was pushed by at least one scum. Narrowing down town's decision to seven players instead of 13 certainly seems like a good play to me. However, the purpose of the post was also a way for me to say something scummy, speak towards a player I had an iffy read on, and move the flow of the game towards scum-hunting. The reactions to post 50 and how I read them are as follows:
Rach ignored the obviously scummy elements and pretty much my whole post altogether. Now, I'm reading that as a definite indicator of scum-proliferating-fluff.
Sven spoke directly to the ambiguity of my post but didn't flip the wagon on me. This put him in more of a town place for me, as I was directly setting myself up to be his target.
Icebox spoke directly to it, but played as what I read as town because instead of spinning it, he inquired towards the purpose of the play I made and put pressure on me with a vote.
Selk, you actually didn't say anything about it at all until post 141/143, which seems much more like scum trying to start a groundless accusation than anything. In fact, I responded directly to what you said in 143, and you're still hounding me. I really don't want to give you the time of day, but I'm doing this because you asked and because I'm town.
Bo realizes immediately that I wasn't seriously making a scum accusation, nor was I scum making a slip. He disengages completely at this point, which is less town than, say, Icebox, but is still not scum in my book.


I called you scum based off of your reaction in post 143 and the other interactions you've had up to the point of post 200. I explicitly state that you fell for the trap I with that post, and you asking me to explain it all is only working against you at this point. I've also asked you to prove that you're town a few times now, as well as other questions and requests, but you haven't heeded a lot of that, so please be grateful that I've given you the courteousy of such a long-winded reply up to this point.

The scumteam comment with DO was in the effort to see DO make a post about it, and to see what you had to say about an accusation based solely on posturing.

Maybe when you ask a player a question, in such a fast game like this, you should put it in bold. That way, you know, that player won't gloss over it.

Now, you're asking me about a second reaction test, but I can't find another place where I was overt about the play I was making.

In fact, this whole repetition of me not answering your questions is really becoming a headache, because I clearly address the very questions you've had for me in posts 200, 470, 353, and 299. You are shaking the wrong town down, and if you're town, it's a poor play on your part. If you are scum, even poorer.

I reiterate:
VOTE: Selkies

I hope that other players can see my post (as well as those I made earlier by ISO'ing me) as a solid case against you.

Your rhetoric betrays a scum-tell, but more than that, it betrays a scummy player who can't format a good deal of his posts in a way that's conducive towards town-play. IF someone wants to call me out on this, ISO him. He's got posts where he bolds his responses within the quote box, or has his response written both in and out of the box. I know that this point is more technical and aside from the game, but it makes it really hard to read you as town as you literally don't read as town.

P-Edit: I also notice that Selkies has been pushing wagons like Varsoon, Rach, etc--all people who are easy scum targets. While I know that I'm town, even if Rach flipped scum, it'd give Selkies the town-cred he needs to seem like an integral part of the game given his amount of activity.

@Majiffy: I like your post, even if I could read it as a dodge. Thanks for speaking directly to what I said.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon i cant read that wall from phone, but slow down. I think you might be town, selikie is very likely town... Lets work this out

I'd like to get a more substantial post out of Selkie before I'm ready to put him down as town.

[Varsoon]

@Sven: While I appreciate you trying to diffuse what I'm pushing, it also gives me all kinds of WIFOM sickness.
Also, man, quality over quantity.

@Selkies: I want to know substantial reasons for why you've put down every vote that you've laid so far.
I'd also like to know how you feel about my post 510.
I think answering both of these will provide good content for us to work off of.

[Varsoon]

I understand how the hydra works.
Going to refer to them as him because in the game, it's a singular entity, taking up a single slot and a single role. Using the plural pronoun, while correct, would also lead to potential confusion.

Also, you can do reads on people who haven't posted much. We all have so far.

[Varsoon]

Based on how you replied in 526, I'm going to have to drop your wagon and put you down as town.
This is the kind of response I was looking for.

You made a lot of good points, especially on your voting methodology and how you handled/are handling my case.
While part of me wants to read your mention of Sven as buddying/helping him out as scum, it strikes me as more genuinely town because you speak about other players in a similar manner/tone/discourse.

With that said,

UNVOTE: Selkies

I really want to pressure Majiffy or Rach next, since they're looking like scum to me.

While I'm considering Bo as town, he does play a very safe and by-the-books scum. However, since he's not active right now, we can't really do much in that area.

Sorry about not considering your timezones, I've pretty much been reading Hydras like one person and assuming that one poster or the other would pick up the slack/assume control/responsibility in most cases. Anyway, no sweat, I'm interested to see how your other half responds as well.

For now, though
VOTE: RachMarie
Do something constructive.

[Varsoon]

If you don't know what you're looking for in a reaction test, it's not a reaction test, it's just a scummy post.

Pedit: oh ok

I think it's this half of the hydra that I tend to disagree with on playstyle.
I see where you're coming from, and it makes sense,
But sometimes you have to put bait out and see what sorts of beasts take it.

[Varsoon]

4 AM here, was writing a paper and my computer just poof'd it.

Sleep is imminent on my end.

[Varsoon]

Sup varsoon

Makin' a big post and doin' some ISO work. :3

[Varsoon]

VOTE MAJIFFY

Dat OMGUS.

If I have to read OMGUS one more time, I'll break something.

[Varsoon]

@ Varsoon post #200:

How have I "positioned" myself exactly, and what do you find scummy about said positioning?

As of Post 200?
You parked a vote in 148 without reasoning, you evade in 150, evade in 156, use Bo's case instead of building on it in 169. It just seemed like you weren't generating any useful content of your own while you were constantly using excuses of the thread being active and you having to read and catch up. Except, once caught up, you didn't post anything for, like, 400 posts. It just struck me as scummy for all these reasons.

Okay, guys. I'm trying a surgical strike.

Consider my vote on Rach, but I am not yet switching because I saw while trying to catch up that she has some more votes on her again, and I'm not sure of the exact vote count.


@Varsoon
You mentioned here that your statement that Sven was kinda scummy was a reaction test. But it leaves me with the question: at that point did you consider Sven kinda scummy? Or was that totally made up and you had a town/null read on him?
--

Rach's post really rubs me the wrong way. The game started less than 48 hours ago during the work week. Nobody is lurking at this point, and it feels disingenuous to be calling people out demanding more content, when it's not that people are lurking but that others are in hyper-post mode. (A fact Rach herself noted earlier when she said all the posts were making it so that she didn't know if she was coming or going). Voting DO because she wants more content seems like an easy placeholder vote to make without committing to what is going on in the game.

I also don't like her vote on DO based on the given reasoning of DO not commenting on Bo. Not sure what she would expect to him to state and why the lack of stating it makes him scummy. DO did state that his vote on Sven was because of the case Bo presented.

--

More later!

p-edit @Sven

I have a job + full time university studies. Dont try to read everything, focus on interacting when you have time aviable and use the past post as data. Focus on a few people and interactions.

Yeah, I'll give that a go... otherwise I feel like I'm never going to dig out.

As for what's directly targeted at me in this post...
I felt uneasy because of his OMGUS in 33 (without a vote, but still. ((Damn it, now I'm saying OMGUS))), his flip-flopping of votes, and the lack of quoting/substantial scumhunting that he had done by the time of the post in question. More of it seemed like buddying to me, but since then I've put him on the back-burner. I'd rather pressure players like Majiffy and Rach, who currently have votes on Sven.

If you can elaborate why a Rach lynch is stupid, that would be great. I'll get to you in 30 minutes with a somewhat case on you, mainly because I'm pretty sure all my general thoughts are in the wall post with some linked posts in there to back them up.

I... don't know why I quoted this.
Probably wanted to talk about the Rach lynch.
At this point, I agree with Sven on the idea that a Majiffy wagon would turn up more workable content, although Rach's positioning of "But wait I am town don't lynch this is how I do town" is really reading off to me.

Right now I would go Majiffy before rach.

Dont think they are both scum by the way majiffy is approaching rach.

Maybee we should ease of rach as wagoning her gives us nothing except a lynch.

VOTE MAJIFFY

I agree that the Rach pressure isn't getting us much, and we already saw a reply there.
I'm flip-flop on Majiffy, but I don't like his posts as of late.

VOTE: Majiffy
C'mon, man, step it up.

As of now, I agree most with Icebox's focus towards Rach/Sven/Majiffy because that's where a majority of the conflict of this game is. That said, please don't exclude examining other players and keeping an eye out for slips. I'd hate to tunnelvision on this one, or have scum dictate the focus of the game.

[Varsoon]

@Icebox: I was town in our first game and I can't reveal my alignments in the others since they're ongoing, but as of now, I think town is more appealing to play as scum, even if I'd enjoy playing a scum game. I guess I have more experience as town and since there's so many ways to approach being town, it lends itself to a lot of playtypes that most players don't anticipate. You can mess with how you play the game and experiment with a lot more leverage as town.

[Varsoon]

^ Then why did you say you were disappointed with your role pm.

Dat Rem.


Because it's the same role PM I've gotten about 4 times now.

[Varsoon]

Good morning Sven.
Gif is thinking about it, but I'm sold. I'll join a town bloc. I've made one before, and it worked pretty well (the scum were paralyzed by it and they had to waste all their night kills killing the bloc).
*nudges Varsoon* He should join too. He has been very townie.

-Rem

Part of me says "NOOOO, VARSOON, DONT YOU GET PLAYED SO EASILY!"

Another part wants to go for it.
So I'm down.

[Varsoon]

I have no questions right now, going to get some schoolwork done then I will do a workout... perhaps later.


edit, we are taking in members by the truckload... some might be infiltrators.

Only thing I have faith in is selkies, bo and icebox are abit lower but still town


Varsoon, why should we add you, and do you have us all as town?

TOWNLIST:
Icebox
Svenskt Stål

NULLLIST:
Selkies (lean town)
RachMarie (lean scum)
Jennifer (lean scum)
Does_Bo_Know (lean scum)

SCUMLIST:
Majiffy
Disturbed_One

[Varsoon]

and since we all think bo is town I dont see this working out.

Ah, I'm not so sure anymore. He's been lurking and posting really safely.

Hmm
I'm actually starting to think D_O might be scum. He was a total lurksack when he was scum in my first game.

-G

P-Edit: eh I still don't see majiffy as scum -.-

Agree with the D_O idea, I just think Majiffy is active scum.

you have five scum leans? thats industrious.

To be fair, the nulls I have are pending them producing more content and flips. So, ultimately, they're in town for now, but I'm skeptical of them.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Disturbed One


I can agree with this, for the same reasons I originally put votes on him.

[Varsoon]

Define posting safely.

Not taking enough risks to expose other scum, not using his vote for pressure (or at least not following through on votes he put down, iirc. Maybe I'm just remembering this wrong, but his votes have felt pretty useless so far), and just kinda sitting on the fence.

[Varsoon]

Okay so I was expecting to be a lot more active tonight.

But I ended up going to my friend's house to play Borderlands 2.

So yeah. Probably gonna end up with another catch-up post tomorrow...morning/noonish. (I'm in CST if you're all wondering.)

You have friends -and- you play BL2 with them? Confirmed scum.
But please just be active and speak to what's currently happening in the game.

Thank god at least someone isn't retardedly reading Sven as town.

Look at my earlier posts addressing this.
Also, everyone is potential scum,
Depends on what happens when flips occur.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Disturbed

I don't like this one bit, Mjiffs.

If that's the case you should probably just claim. This game has come to a standstill.

This either. Seems like scum sussing out PRs or something. It's just ew.
Game is hardly at a standstill, maybe for you.

VOTE: Disturbed

Holy fucking no.

Sven, Icebox: Unvote please

Or at least until fery and I make our megapost

I'm not included in the townbloc anymore?
Jeeze.

I've read up to page 10

TOWN

DGB
Sven for #58 and #99
DBK for #104, #157 and #209
Selkies: First I thought scum, but then I'm getting used to the playstyle. And I like his #141, and the following posts total town, I totally agree with him.

MEH

Icebox: overly pleasant but #83 is townie but so many posts are either fluff or scummy fluff.
RachM: wishy washy as usual.
Jennifer: #187 is a bunch of catchup questions, but no reads.

SCUM

Varsoon: post #50, #167, #200 is horrible, spoiler tags, defensive tone, nonsense and Selkies vote.

I support a Majiffy wagon right now.
You guys can wagon me, and I'll do my best to be as transparent as possible,
Kind iffs me that D_O replaces in with yet another anti-varsoon guy, but it just means I'll have to stop taking so many risks and putting questionable pressure on people. At least, for now.
Oh, wait, nah, it feels kinda like the townbloc doesn't really wanna include me, and they'll probably see my joining in as opportunistic anyway, so I'll just put my vote down for what I feel is a good wagon right now.
D_O's reaction strikes me as townish, but I've seen plenty of scum freak out in the same way. Still, probably seen more town do that than scum.
Dunno about DGB, seems quick to drop reads and flow the game towards the easiest wagon in existence right now.

I'd vote Majiffy, but it's also way too easy of a wagon to me.
It justs like active scum to me. Then there's he you handled the D_O post.
http://youtu.be/6g5ZF6DUrHI?t=22s


But I also don't like how Rach's been posting. Just diffuses any fire sent her way, doesn't really contribute to the flow of the game.
I feel the same way about Jen.
On the fence about DGB.
That's where I am right now.

[Varsoon]

D_O's reaction strikes me as townish, but I've seen plenty of scum freak out in the same way. Still, probably seen more town do that than scum.

... There was no freak out. He replaced out. This post is epic bullshit.

http://youtu.be/4LZcMv0H1bI
AVAST! EPIC BULLSHIT ON YONDER SHORE! SCRIBE IT IN YE TOMES, THIS BE THE BULLSHIT OF LEGEND, MATES.


You're getting scummier by the post, man.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Selkies

Glossed the thread, glad Icebox was town and actually my bro this game instead of scum trying to manipulate me.
That said, Selkies is scum.
GG.

[Varsoon]

ooh. that's some excellent analysis you've posted there Mister Advanced Mafia Theory.

No one cared when I made detailed and articulated arguments.
You're scum, and people can ISO you if they don't believe it.
Your rebuttal was equally eloquent.

[Varsoon]

Gentlemen, gentlemen. If you're both so convinced the other is scum, how about we work on trying to find each others' partners first, yeah? Day just started, we can always come back to this later.

"gentlemen".

Who is Svenskt's partner, then?

Well, Sven is Selkie's partner.
They both start with S.
Also, ISO 'em and see how much they've been playing off of eachother.
Game set match.

[Varsoon]

Agree with Majiffy here. Partners don't really matter when we don't have scum in the first place. It's all speculation.

But I know that Selkies is scum, so yeah.

[Varsoon]

UNVOTE: Selkies

Don't know about this vote anymore.
I would have probably hammered Jen.
Majiffy's outbursts make me think that there's scum between him and Sven.
Thoughts?

[Varsoon]

yes

What made you change your mind on selkies?

Why does majiffy attacking me make it likely that one of us is scum?

While he's definitely controlling the flow of the game, I feel like it's scum-hunting more than town-hunting. I guess you could put me down as skeptical at this point?

I'm reading it as Majiffy trying desperately for a mislynch, which is scum, or
Majiffy trying hard to build a case on a scumsuspect, or
Majiffy being flat out wrong.

Two of these three don't sit well with me.
His use of bold, caps, and big letters makes me even more unsure of how I should be reading that. Is he genuine town outcrying for attention when scum is controlling all the wagons or is he scum trying to wrest control of the game? In either scenario, I feel that it puts scum between Sven, Majiffy, and Selkies.

Of course, this could all be town hunting town hunting town.

I'm just going to ISO people later today and make a huge post, if that's okay?
Or would you guys like a smaller one?

UNVOTE: for now.

[Varsoon]

JEN: I don't like calling scum-teams so fast, but I think you're right on some points.
SVEN: Well, yeah, but I'm leaning scum on this one. The fact that his posts are reading to me as both scum and town should be a good indicator (for me) that he's not town.

I'll do a quick rank when I get to work.

[Varsoon]

Most of the time, I don't remember/see your points about me being scum. Besides, I'm not scum, so I guess I don't go looking to refute every time someone calls me out.

Anyway, like I said, I'm iffy on the Majiffy. Going to do ISOs soon,
VOTE: Sven

Because scum.

[Varsoon]

Most of the time, I don't remember/see your points about me being scum. Besides, I'm not scum, so I guess I don't go looking to refute every time someone calls me out.

Anyway, like I said, I'm iffy on the Majiffy. Going to do ISOs soon,
VOTE: Sven

Because scum.

So you are discounting his role claim? Why?

Going to try and figure out the VC.

- f

Give it a sec.

[Varsoon]

Looks like Jennifer and Svenskt are at L-2. Majiffy and Varsoon are at L-3

This pisses me off.

Whyso?
If you could have any one player lynched right now, who would it be? Why?

[Varsoon]

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED?

LOL

what in the fuck are you doing, lol hilarious

Hi, still busy, sorry.

Majiffy is the biggest scum-driven wagon right now and I would like to make it clear that he is solidly in my town pile

I'm not quite sure what you mean by townhunting, but yes, sometimes I do work primarily with finding townreads than scum ones. how is that scummy exactly?

i find it brutally hilarious that Varsoon calls Majiffy out for using all caps, when Varsoon votes us 5 times in the same post. Also I find it funny how he doesn't bother to address the points we bring up on him being scum. At all.

My reads, independent of fery's, are as follows, t->s

Town Pile
Majiffy
Rach

Null to Scum spectrum
AA9 (does scummy shit all day long as either alignment)
Jennifer (probably scum because of how much her reads differ and her general lack of involvement. And she's not scumreading varsoon)

Varsoon


Sven is pinging my radar in all sorts of funny places. He's done some townie things, like his freakout over our PGO claim, and then the next moment he's posting ridiculous posts that are basically crying to fery "WHY AREN'T YOU TOWNREADING ME". I think he's scum, but I'm not willing to lynch him due to my trust in Fery and DGB.

But Varsoon really,

really

needs to go today.

Pedit:

jesus fuck.

why are you asking jennifer to claim

DO NOT. CLAIM. JENNIFER.

fucking hell sven wt

f

How can you have me as scum and be suprised about me being scummy?

You are worthless as town, completely worthless.

Show me how the fuck his behavior that I've outlined is town in the least.

He should be doing that. Not me.

I should?... prove to you that my actions are towny...that you have not complained about until majiffy decided that the best defense is a tunneling offense.

ten four. but will not happen.

You and Majiffy need to sort each other out. He's the one who is voting you. Not me. He's asking ME to show him how you are not scum. That's not my job., it's your job.

ARE YOU RETARDED? YOU HAVE ME AS SCUM; WHAT IS THERE TO WORK OUT!?!?!?!?!?!??! YOUR NUMBER ONE SCUM AND NUMBER ONE TOWN IS FIGHTING HOW THE FUCK DO YOU SEE THAT WORKING OUT.

And thanks for derailing the fuck out of the jennifer wagon, that got us an awfull lot, tahnks selkies. Maybee we will come back to jennifer thou? do that silly ass shit again?

VOTE VANSOOR

Looks like Jennifer and Svenskt are at L-2. Majiffy and Varsoon are at L-3

This pisses me off.

Whyso?
If you could have any one player lynched right now, who would it be? Why?

Why did you put a vote on him right after he role claimed? What, if any, effect did the role claim have on your vote?

"Right now" is meaningless. But, you are pretty high on my list atm.

I don't like these reactions.
It screams scum to me.
That, or town that should be much more composed.
I was wrong about this sort of read in my first game against the player Fuzzybutternut.
So I'm not as confident as I should be.

Also, I'm Varsoon. V-A-R-S-O-O-N.


Regardless, the intent of my vote is staying until I do my ISOs and get my head clear on a few things.
UNVOTE:

Will try to make a tinier ISO list than I did in my post 200.

[Varsoon]

Show me how the fuck his behavior that I've outlined is town in the least.

He should be doing that. Not me.

HOW ABOUT YOU FUCKING VOTE HIM UNTIL HE DOES THEN ARGH ADFSGFAFSDGIOASJFDS;ODFAO!!!!

GODDAMNIT I AM SO ENTIRELY FED UP WITH EVERYONE IN THIS FUCKING GAME.

Majiffy can we talk about AA now?

- f

No. And I am also incredibly fucking close to replacing out myself. This is ABSOLUTELY fucking ridiculous. EVERYONE is ignoring my arguments on Sven. Sven is. Varsoon is. You are. WHAT THE FUCKING SHIT.

HE IS
OBV
FUCKING
SCUM

I REFUSE TO VOTE ANYONE ELSE TODAY AND IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT YOU CAN FUCKING LYNCH ME.

Hey bro.
Doing some ISOs.
I think Sven's scum, and I feel bad for you, man.
Chill out, though.
If he flips town, we'll lynch you.

VOTE: Sven

More on this at 6.

[Varsoon]

Rach's not really amazing when it comes to the content department.

[Varsoon]

Man, this game is all over the place.

Hard to believe there's as many players as there are.

[Varsoon]

Sven replaced out?

UNVOTE:

Blah.
This game.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, it's var, like Var, but with a V. Then Soon.
I'm in another game and no one can even spell it.
Wait, that's this game.
I'm Varsoon.
Not Vansoor or whatever.

[Varsoon]

Cheers.

[Varsoon]

Pretty sure the current game is posting beer and not talking about who we think is scum.

[Varsoon]

Guys, while I genuinely want to produce content and stuff,
I'm just exhausted with this game.
Would you hold it against me if I replaced out, too?

[Varsoon]

var, why did you unvote my slot? if my slot is scum I don't get the unvote

Eh, I think it's not cool to keep a vote on someone when they replace in. We'll see how you play.

Majiffy - night 1 you said that if DGB was town you would vote Selkies, why did that not happen? why did he not even appear on your list of 3 you were willing to lynch?

@ varsoon - why do you think icebox was killed and if you were scum who would you have killed?

Icebox was doing some of the most town work a guy could do.
If I was scum? Probably someone who wasn't so active. I find that PRs tend to be less talkative and outspoken.

[Varsoon]

Hope this helps. IceBox (and the respective heads of Icebox) plays a hard game, since most posts are shorter, and tend to drive a single, specific point. Here are some of the longer ones that echo what IceBox was shooting for, overall. I like the way that the hydra processed things, and it felt very town to pressure people for answers on their actions and to lay votes for pressure/with reason.

Explanation of RachMarie vote, holding the vote and delaying Gif from voting Sven, and when he changed to Varsoon, why I revoted Marie:

The long version:

It began with meta which, when summarized is: "own cheerleads as scum does a whole lot of nothing otherwise.

Towncheerlead #1:

Sigh.... Already it starts?

Cmon guys n gals lets focus on the game and not insult each other ok.

That does not help us find scum...

^ This to me is pretty much a town cheerlead. She is saying "Stop fighting amongst yourselves! Go scum hunt guys! We can do this, right town buddies?"
But she isn't scum hunting...

no worries Varsoon... I was letting you know I saw you had answered.

ATM I am waiting for peeps to post (still need a number of peeps posting) Probably will be a few hours before Majiffy posts since like I said he is off frolicking with Mollie...

Meanwhile I am asking questions of peeps as they post to see if I can start pegging peeps into town and scum piles.

^ Self-Narrates, does not actually do what is said beyond the questions posed to Varsoon. There does not seem to be a post which asked her to explain this at all.

ehhh I think it would be kinda silly to end the day before we have any real discussion.

However I see Sven's unvote as a town move to prevent the day ending early by someone derp hammering.

^ Positive reinforcement of unvote. Town reads Sven for this.

DID you just OMGUS me Majiffy?

^ I believe this has been answered, but I understood it as bristling at the time. OMGUS accusations when being put at L-1 seemed contrived.

umm already answred about you Sven and you just confirmed my reasoning.

The fact that Icebox (even if one of the heads messed up and posted under his main, made a point to let peeps know I was at L-1 also seems towny.

Majiffy's vote of all seems the most scummy, but I have played a lot of games with him so willing to see what he has to say.

Meanwhile as I said peeps have not yet posted and its what page 2? no way is town ready for the day to end yet.

1. More caution praise.

Bo goes in my town pike after a post like that ...

BTW Bo I am sure Majiffy will splain after Mollie leaves... he is rather distracted.

Because it is RVS is one of the reasons (along with knowing Majiffy pretty well from playing many games with him plus having him in a game I modded), is why I have not pushed much on it.

^ Gets a town read from Bo, reciprocates. Does not question the Sven vote, even though she had him as slight town.

That last statement was for Selkies... sorry about that hit enter too soon.

Yeah DO and Jen need to post. I know from experience that DO is good at being either town or scum, and I really dont know Jen that well,,, So yeah

want more postin goin on

.

I would be happy to provide you scum game links Selikies.

^ Strikes up town points. consistent in the pressing need for more posts. Does not seem to be doing much other than giving reads.

And then I voted her.

Trying to catch up. But going to watch a movie and then need to catch some shut eye.

FUCK YEAH I FINISHED THIS POST.

These packets consists of analysis and responding to what people say in specific posts. Not really easy to navigate: At the very least, check your own bag because I kind of have questions mixed in there.

I think Rach is a good information lynch. Probably scum. If not, plenty to analyze as far as the wagon goes and who voted, unvoted, moved vote and tried to move wagon.

Sven

Spoiler:

Sven:
#86 by Sven. Interesting or other such words are a bit scummy, but he quoted someone.
#99 Isn't really what scum say.
#198: Doesn't answer a few questions, that should be answered.
#211: Sven is being me right then when dealing with extremely active posters. Sometimes you need to cut people off to do your own brand of scum hunting. Self-conscious question. Uh, town do this kinda thing as much as scum, Null. Summarizes two players playstyles. Which lends credence to his view that his reasoning of thinking Sven is town, makes sense. Sorta fence sitting here though.
#213: I agree.
#220: I buy response 1, but he ignores 2 and 3. It would not have hurt just to say, "well, I play with meta in mind." But he chose not to. Don't understand response to 3.
#221: Cutting too many people off. You may ignore Orc, if life gets in the way of feasibly being able to deal with his constant questioning, which is simply difficult to answer. But Bo, you should pay attention to.
#222 Points out he is serious in ignoring the both of them.
#225: Clearly shows he is not actually ignoring them. *points out obvious*
#230: False dilemma. More importantly, consistency in reads and suspicion and starting to bring these suspicious things UP.
#237: Scum don't say this.
#256: Still sensitive to suspicion I think this fits in line with his early defensiveness against Selkie, I think he might just actually not like being questioned and pressured.
#288: Town point hunting: or actually towning it up.
#371: Scum don't say this. They break expectations, more methodically.
#377: Reading my mind. Which is a town tell.
#413: It will be a headache for town too. It greatly depends on how successful the early day is as far as discerning town.
#440: More fucking mind reading.
#467: Knows what is up.

DoesBoKnow.

Spoiler:

Bo:
#104 fails to mention why Selkies is prob town, but puts him there. Points out possibly scummy things people do, on almost everyone.
#108 is odd, like he's trying to remember his own position.
#109 last line proving the point that he's literally remembering what his position is... Are scum this obvious? Hmm.
#113 "doesn't feel right to me"
#120 does not answer my question, "In case she could be scum and use it against us"
#126: hmm. Interpreted for me. Rebuffs Rach.
#130: Eager to answer questions about himself. Probably need to take him up on this to get more information on this. Might be townie to do, but on the other hand, it might just be him trying to gain town points so as not to be the lynch today.
#134: Middle line is probably bullshit.
#157: ... Intermediating, possibly a town one. Reminds me of town Mozamis. Hmm. Will think on this post. Still pushing for that Rach wagon though.
#209: Scumdar alert. Paints everyone as scummy. Moves against Varsoon condescending.
#216: More intermediating, more translation, more summarization.
#228: Anti-town.
#270: Back pedals, probably moving to Rach. More summarization, more interpreting for others.
#307: *sigh*
#319: *sigh*
#Starting to think Bo misrepped Selkie.
#341: Checked wiki: You lurk usually as scum. So it's quite relevant. Why the preemptive defensiveness? Why did you make this post?
#545: Misreps and strawmans everyone, no one was giving you shit for not posting. They were reacting to what you've said and done.
#587: Woo boy. I called the Rach move. Hmm. A lot of interpreting, a lot of making sense of things. This post might be for him as much as it is for us.
#589: His reads align with mine, which is probably a good pro-town thing that usually happens when two town think the same way. On the other hand, there has been stuff that I find irrepairably worrying. Putting at lean town for these posts. Will never reach probably town.
#625: Disagree. It is the rare scum partner who defends his scum partner, but Majiffy is that kind of guy. That said, still think Majiffy might be town.
#630: Oho.

Rach continuation:

Spoiler:

Rach continuation:
#127: A difference in thought process Can't tell if scummy or not. Already starting the "i look scummy as town thing" which is legitimate. She has had a lot of trouble with this. The trick is to figure out if her moves have been scummy to be actual scum or just RachMarie being RachMarie.
#142: I read newbie 1318: She tried to paint people as scummy quite a bit. Had reads by post 160. Also cheerlead there, asked for activity, called Omgus when put to L-2 in the game LOL. Gave town points to people that defended her, gave town points to towny people who posted town-like near her wagon. LOL. Tried to shift attention LOL. Something to think on.
#355: What.
#359: *Shiver*
#373: Really should have reads by now.
#402: I am sad: but understand. Varsoon does not need leeway.
#423: Good vote, bad post. Dangerous vote because it is a lurker vote which is what scum do. Good vote because D_O is suspicious. He is not really good at being scum. He's okay(take it as a personal challenge if you're scum again D_O!)
#434: Fair, I think you need to just learn to live with the fact you're never going to be able to respond to everything and just pick and choose what to respond to. Pick the right, things to respond to as either alignment and people will let it pass.
#450: "Can we please get back to the game?" More cheerleading. Shhh, we know what to do.
#483: I'm just sad at this point. I don't think Rach could keep up in this game as either alignment, perhaps that is why she is still doing this even though people are pointing out it is scummy.
#485: More cheerleading. You need to break this habit if you flip scum. This is seriously lining up with your scum meta.
#541: Actual content. Makes sense.
#546: 1. They read you scummy as town, true. But you also play scummy as scum. Which is equally true. 2. I like replacing it too. 3. You need to look for town patterns too. You're not. They're easier to pick up on. Good question to Bo.549
#549: I don't understand this or the analysis thereof. Oh it was a meta analysis or something.
#588: Worried this might be true. But then you scum painted Sven. Which was scummy.
#What bugs me the most right now is how easy this is. You keep getting voted and no one seems to mind. The upside is, that only my town-leans, minus D_O who jumped off has voted you.

Selkies.

Spoiler:

#132: Says what Bo is doing (giving reads early) is scummy.Does not pursue it.
#140: Wants to excuse Rach. I think this leads to a trend of Orc Hydra defending her. He quickly makes a case against us in #141
#143 makes a case against Varsoon which would be odd, if it wasn't obvious that he is trying to pressure everyone for information.
#161 last line is strange, she thinks there is scum on the wagon, but not elaborate.
#207: Blow fishing it up. Trying to make himself seem larger than he is. Intimidated~ Trying to push Varsoon down. Normal personality type. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the game.
#227: Worthless follow up questions are worthless.
#232: What is this post. Is there some sort of file for RVS questions and out of RVS questions? Did I miss the meeting?
#255: Talking this out. Is protown~
#265: I imagine she eventually explained this unvote.I hope she did. -f.
#268: Lol. I agree, very scummy of yourself to do that. -f. Townie post.
#269: Yeah his case was bad, but you responded the wrong way to it.
#275: Wifom: But town and scum do this. Answered this question in #332
#290: The "You don't know me!" post.
#Selkies: Orc is way to involved in his posts, arguments and reads to be scum this game.
#301: "I'm town this game" Only town me does this! Maybe it is true for -f as well.
#317: (checks file) RVS question.
#328: When did you withdraw it? The case on us I mean.
#334: Uncalled for. Majiffy is reading the thread. Still, You're proving the point you're too emotionally involved in your arguments and mafia. BUT, this helps get a read on you, so that helps.
#342: Can you explain what you mean by this? Do you mean you think Varsoon laid a trap which lead to your current position at the time of this post?
#366: Reasonable vote.
#400: a possible town slip.
#475: This is par for the course and you should do this Varsoon.

D_O.

Spoiler:

#169: Sheepy. ... Weird.... Possibly scummy.
#552: *Watches with anticipation*

Jennifer.

Spoiler:

#187: Does not know Rach, Rach holds her RVS vote till she has someone she thinks is scum. Very townie initial post. Tries to make insightful questions, might not actually be insightful, but it seems like she is trying to make them insightful. Flip side: trying to get a real feel for the game.
#645: Goes with the flow, but just not the person with the titles flow. Reasonable vote is reasonable. Forecasted vote. Voted. Timing of voting should be noted. While she has not "read" Majiffy, she might have timed the vote.

Varsoon.

Spoiler:

#200: Reading the whole thing. Read the whole thing. A lot of theory here. Points given, points taken away.
His response to post 141 is fence sitting.
His response to 143 makes me bitter, because I reaction tested when I hopped into the old game, by stating I was town as town. Still voted me. "I’m normally normal in games. Also, I agree, there is at least one scum between me, Icebox, and you. PoE lets me know it’s not me, and your posts let me know it’s likely you." Or, it is none of us. False trillemas are dumb.
His response to post 146: Please don't lynch or NK me, I really like this game. Lol, okay, I promise not to vote you until lylo. Because you shouldn't live that long.
Response to 148 and 169: Standard play for him not to like D_O Play.
Response to Jennifer's Post: I made myself way too easy of a target though, and I think that's what you're acknowledging here. <- Varsoon does this as town, it makes him vulnerable, but honesty wins over experienced players as long as you're honest with few inconsistencies. Jennifer estimation is correct.
Last closing bit: Does not really indicate we are town in post, but reads us as town, over Selkies. Probably just trying to gather information, but not really a fan of the town read on Bo either or the town Rach read: WHICH CAME FROM NO WHERE.
#299: Do you like being town or scum more, Varsoon?
#353: "Anyway, kept reading this and Bo's antagonism of Sven seems off." Hmm, more analysis. *gives a town point*
#470: "but the guy who introduced me to the game told me that scum posts pics, links, and gifs, so I'll keep from doing that." 0/1 so far with this scum tell. Furthermore, that was a quick link between D_O and Selkies, I think we've talked about this already. Don't associate without something better than average back it up with.
#510: Orc, obviously shakes people down wrong. But it provides evidence anyway. He is just probably lynched a lot for it. Do not like this vote by Varsoon.
#529: Good vote. Does this vote as town. Town vote.

Majiffy.

Spoiler:

#208: Do not lynch Majiffy. Listen to song if disagree. Then come to conclusion that he is town this game.
#223: Read us as town! I am town! Good job Majiffy!
#250: True on Selkies. Varsoon wagon? Yeah, I can see why you wouldn't like it. I don't really think a scum has voted Varsoon at the point at which those 3 votes were on him.
#272 Noticing everything that is wrong with Selkie's posts and actions, which is...Good scum hunting. so far, not thinking Selkies is scum though.
#291: Sven, easy mislynch? Maybe. I don't know.
#417: Pretty sure we could not. D_O is where he belongs.
#Will finish this last bit and Iso him. But, I think he slightly town.

Summary:

Town:
Sven
Selkie
Varsoon
Townish:
Jennifer
Majiffy
Null:
D_O
Bo. I'll put him in the town or scum pile after flip.
Scum:
Rach.

Basically, about Varsoon: I'm worried about the fact he was more interested in allaying my suspicions instead of coming back to me when I asked why he was annoyed with his role pm. However, his playstyle indicates he tries for honesty above all else as a defense mechanism. This might cause him to slip up often, because of his long posts. Newbies, quite often, slip up on word choice and such. Things such as indicating knowing more than they really do, do in fact happen often. In general, Varsoon should answer your question about why he knows so much. But when you think about it, it's pretty obvious he has read a lot of games and prepared himself before actively participating himself in mafia.

[Varsoon]

What convinced me that Icebox was town was how he handled his suspicions of me, and how he never -really- had anyone definitely in his town pool, even with good evidence for it. Everyone was capable of being scum, and I feel that when scum is playing, they try to narrow it to a handful of town being the people capable of being scum.

[Varsoon]

This game is so aimless.

[Varsoon]

At this point, even as town, I don't really want to. It's exasperating.

[Varsoon]

Like, Selkies, at this point, I don't even really care.

[Varsoon]

uggh wow ok guys n gals...

but we really need to look at Jen and Arc tomorrow

Intent to Hammer

Var you need to post your last thoughts and claim and so on all that jazz...

Cool, hammer me and town loses.

My thoughts is that this game has been fluff for 20 pages.
I'd rather be lynched at this point than make a huge defensive post.
Go ISO me if you really think I'm scum.
Or just vote me.
I'll flip town.

I've already put in what I needed to. Look at the last posts of mine with content. They'll speak to who I still think is scum.

[Varsoon]

Oh man, P-EDIT, this thread exploded since when I replied.

Anyway, I'm not sure about how heavily that exploded into votes, then shifted to Rach.

D:

[Varsoon]

Hardly.
I just think I'm a shitty lynch.

[Varsoon]

Sorry if my content has been lacking as of late.

What do you suggest that I do?

[Varsoon]

Well if no one's down with lynching Sven's slot.

VOTE: Varsoon

Holding by my original feeling that Majiffy is scum or Sven's slot is scum.

I don't even know the new guy's name.

Jen and AA are both lackluster players that I was considering as scum, but with how fast the bait-and-switch was pulled with votes on me and the turn on Rach, now I don't know.

Rach's probably scum. She's just so inactive and non-contributing and then she steps in with intent to hammer? It's weird.

I don't like Selkies PGO claim or whatever it was. I could be wrong and this might not even be a thing that exists, though.

Why do I think everyone is scum in this game?

//shrug.

I stand by my earlier commitment to their being scum between Majiffy and Sven's slot.
Does scum usually replace out in a game after that much activity on their part, though?
Ugh.


Anyways, I'll look over it all a bit more if you want me to, but this is where I stand.


And, Majiffy, I'm not appealing to shit. Lynch me.

[Varsoon]

So, what will you do when I flip town, Majiffy?

Like, I mean, if I were to be lynched right now, and then I flipped town, what level of cognitive dissonance would you feel?

That is, granted that I am town, and all that moses.

Seriously, though, it feels like I'm in a pretty damn hopeless situation. Let's go with this, though.

Vote: Jake from State Farm

That's the guy who replaced Sven, right?

[Varsoon]

K.

[Varsoon]

Oh, wait, I get a 'bah' post!

This game has so much posting and fluff that thinking about it makes me queasy.
I hope you guys are happy with my lynch.

[Varsoon]

After iso'ing the scum players, my scum reads are in this order:

#1

Jennifer

#2

Icebox

#3 & 4

Varsoon

/

Majiffy

, I can't decide.

She keeps using RL excuses, various postponements, lists of questions without follow up, then IIoA about town blocks... she's scum.

VOTE: Jennifer

Yep.

Your read was part of what we factored in.

Rereading day 2 I don't understand why we lynched Varsoon.

;_;

I wasn't that helpful to town anyway.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, it wasn't cool of me. The pace of this game, combined with how many other games I was in--it just didn't mesh well with my IRL stress.

[Varsoon]

BTW Var sorry about that, I was just feeling kinda bummed cause it seemed like everyone wanted your lynch and no one was looking at Jen....

no big deal, glad town won, but I felt pretty unimportant/forgotten by day 3, haha

[Varsoon]

Ah, thanks. I'm still terrible at reading you, Rach.

[Varsoon]

Rem and GiF are quickly becoming some of my favorites to play with.