Micro 158: borkgame (Game Over)

[Selkies]

VOTE: Icebox

You're scum.

Sven sheep me.

[Selkies]

Is there a reason why you're not posting or no

[Selkies]

VOTE: Svenskt

[Selkies]

Hi guys

[Selkies]

Icebox: Are the two of you going to post only your unified reads in the thread, or will you two be effectively be playing as claimed lover/mason on one account?

As in, are you going to try to play as one player or two

[Selkies]

Not entirely.

[Selkies]

I take it its orc shitting all over the thread right now.

Get lynched.

Rach, thoughts on the two hydras and the obvscum sitting in front of us right now?

[Selkies]

Cool.

Now go wagon Sven.

[Selkies]

Orc and I will have epic battles for the vote right here in this thread.

[Selkies]

fferyllt

[Selkies]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=20360
http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=20541

[Selkies]

No that's what Rach does all the time.

Sven is scum just take my word for it. Wagon his ass.

[Selkies]

Thanks I have not played with you before then...

Why the push to lynch Sven when we are still in RVS and half the peeps have not yet posted?

No, we've not played before. That's orcinus' vote. I don't do RVS.

[Selkies]

Vote is now serious

[Selkies]

Are you both in agreement on Sven ? Or is Orc doing the mega tunneling already?

We are not in agreement atm.

[Selkies]

Thanks Sven.

Cool down a bit.

VOTE: Rach

What exactly helps us find scum?

[Selkies]

Sigh.... Already it starts?

Cmon guys n gals lets focus on the game and not insult each other ok. That does not help us find scum...

This reads kinda like you think we're town. "we" being orcinus and svenskt.

[Selkies]

Also, I am only going to refer to selkies as ffer. Orc is a tantrum child that I dont have the slightest will to interact with.

I will hold ffer accountable for everything coming out of selkies.

And this too.

[Selkies]

us was in general to the player list I have no clue who is scum or town at this point in the game it just started? And like I said half the players have not yet posted.

There were only two players jumping up and down and yelling at each other. It just struck me as odd how you phrased that.

[Selkies]

FFer/selkies, I am beyond dissapointed in you that you let him vote me.

My first reaction to the vote is that I think orc backlashed when I asked him if his question was serius. I entered thread, I left, nothing strange with that, yet orc felt that it was suspicious/a need to cast suspicion. I call him out, he votes me.

Now if you wanted to blip my radar, you suceeded.

I dont care what people say about having early town leans but RachMarie should not be getting votes for trying to get a feel for the game, she is townie for page 2.

FFER STOP WAGONING ME YOU FUCKING, JESUS

See this is still striking me as odd as hell, despite what fery says, considering it's ONE vote on page TWO. This is a giant overreaction, you assume that we wouldn't wagon you...why exactly, because you're friends with fery and the three of us have played a game before?

This is really retarded.

@Orc: Do you have any other completed scumgame except for that speed one? I would really appreciate it.

No groupscum game. I have a SK game but that was my town play.

Insults just breed more insults and froofroos, which then make it harder to look at things from a logical perspective and make cases.

For finding scum:

1. Ask questions including follow up questions. Make sure peeps clarify any vague points.

2. Follow up on inconsistencies, granted townies make them too, but pushing on them can lead to finding scum,

3. Have fun and keep it as a game, do not resort to insults and personal attacks. Instead look for patterns of behavior, check out completed games form meta and so on.

4. Rule peeps out as town reads to help narrow down your scum pile. But do not give anyone a total free pass recognize some players are better at fooling peeps into thinking they are town when they are scum, definitely consider the level of experience and previous games with said player in figuring things out.

5. Look at the big picture, even if you are tunneling on one player to figure them out do not get so tied to tunneling on them, you miss important stuff about other players.

6. Have at least a bit of suspicion about everyone, question everyone and weigh out everything.



us was in general to the player list I have no clue who is scum or town at this point in the game it just started? And like I said half the players have not yet posted.

So what exactly are you doing to help town right now

"Nothing" is not an acceptable answer.

I'm not even a hydra.
I'm just... me.

RVS voting is for losers.

No comments on anything at all? Nothing interesting in the last 2 pages?

[Selkies]

@Orc: Do you have any other completed scumgame except for that speed one? I would really appreciate it.

You didn't ask, but here's my (fferyllt) scum game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24994

[Selkies]

We really should change our nym to jeckyllhyde

[Selkies]

Actually I retract my town read on rachmarie, selkies is a town lean thou.

VOTE RACHMARIE

@fferselkies, I was thinking more like

I'm feeling more like Zaphod Beeblebrox.

[Selkies]

christ, sven what is wrong with you

rach how are ou feeling at l1?

[Selkies]

I like, I like.

Talk to me about the clusterfuck that is selkies.

Clusterfuck.

-f

[Selkies]

Why exactly is wilingness to put a RVS wagon to L-1 scummy?

[Selkies]

I was asking more of your read on them.

What's yours

[Selkies]

p sure that would be me.

-f

[Selkies]

It was not that he put it at L-1, it was that he did not state a case or anything really, so it looks more like an OMGUS since I had my RVS vote on him.

You realize it was his first post in the thread and was RVS right

I fail to see how that's alignment indicative

Why exactly is wilingness to put a RVS wagon to L-1 scummy?

Its not scummy, more like stupid. It increases the chance of someone messing up and ending day 1 early.

Rach said it was scummy.

I thought the reaction by orc in the begining was a sorta "defense by offense" thing... but your posting and some of his later have been more comforting. Cant really pinpoint why... I think both of you would be kinda reserved against pushing me early. And you had that post with "its oddly phrased" seemed towny.

Long way of saying "I DONT KNOW BUT MAYBEE TOWN ALITTLE BIT", its 5 40 am and I am going to work in 20.

Reaction by me to...what exactly? You flipping out?

oh yeah and LS (Lastsurvivor) can read me like a book, he says I spend more time on the sidelines cheerileading instead of scum hunting....

Can you like fix this because cheerleading is literally scum in my book through and through.

@Icebox: How's the meta'ing coming along

[Selkies]

I think both of you would be kinda reserved against pushing me early.

you assume that we wouldn't wagon you...why exactly, because you're friends with fery and the three of us have played a game before?

You never answered this.

[Selkies]

...what, why?

[Selkies]

Reaction by me to...what exactly? You flipping out?

[Selkies]

Because as scum you would be peeing your pants.

That's not what you said about my scum game before.

Though being zaphod beeblebrox and scum would be a whole different kind of nerve wracking.

[Selkies]

Do you inhabit brain capacity at all?

I think that as scum you would think twice before throwing down against me.

I think ffer would be inclined to give a read on me some time and not insta voting

The reaction when asked if the question was serious.

I'd be inclined to do that no matter what my alignment. However, I wouldn't hesitate to land on you like a ton of bricks if I had a scum read on you atm.

The back and forth posting from us must be whiplash-inducing.

-f

[Selkies]

Do you inhabit brain capacity at all?

Your insults form an interesting juxtaposition with the cluelessness of your posts. Humor me further.

I think that as scum you would think twice before throwing down against me.

Why?

I think ffer would be inclined to give a read on me some time and not insta voting

Why?

The reaction when asked if the question was serious.

Wait wait.

You called my reaction "defense through offense".

Why on earth would I feel the need to defend myself when you asked me if a question I posed was serious or not?

And you've played with me through RVS--you know how I play this part of the game.

[Selkies]

orci,nus if you mean the polygamy game, Svenskt replaced in long after RVS was over.

-f

[Selkies]

Ah right, that could explain it.

Okay yeah i can see Sven as town then I guess.

[Selkies]

Fery will ask if she needs it, I'm sure.

Bo: any particular reason you commented on every single player in your readthrough except us, and then shoved us in a town pile at the end?

Just to clarify: You feel Rach is town because Sven is scum, and if we took Sven out of the picture, Rach would be lean-scum? I don't quite understand how Rach ended up in the town pile there

[Selkies]

Cool. Talk to me about why Sven might have reacted like that in #27 and why it's scum and not town.

I'm curious to hear /your/ reasoning here.

[Selkies]

*33, I got confused.

[Selkies]

Sven unvoting Rach is null, I don't see it being overly town. Certainly not town enough to offset his weird play in the first few pages.

This makes no sense, you're reading...Rach as scum, but then Bo as town for defending Rach? And Bo as town for voting Sven, who you think is town?

[Selkies]

Clarifying: Fery thinks Sven town, I think him NLS.

[Selkies]

It's night time and it's time to sneak my vote off while GIF isn't looking.

VOTE: RachMarie

Read Sven as town for unvoting her.
Then read Bo as town for defending her slot and voting Sven.

@Bo thoughts?

I'm not sure what's unclear here.

Rach is scum: Hence you voting her.
Sven as town: For unvoting Rach. But you just said Rach was scum, so why would Sven get towncred for this? And why is Sven unvoting alignment indicative? I assure you that scum don't want to be caught on the wrong wagon, and while I see how we could interpret town motivation in wanting to avoid a mislynch, you're going to have to talk me through why it's one and not the other. Unvoting should be a null move.
Bo as town: For defending Rach and voting Sven. But Rach is scum and Sven is town, so doesn't this completely contradict your reads?

Null-lean-Scum

[Selkies]

It was the way you had looked at the entire list of peeps that have posted so and are trying to put them into the town and scum piles already, kinda reminds me though you did it a lot quicker than I did, usually takes me quite a while to figure out my reads when I am town.

Wait so how does this make sense

Giving reads too quick: Isn't that scummy since it demonstrates that you aren't actually worried about the reads' accuracy? Why is being able to give reads quicker than you town-indicative?

[Selkies]

Oh my god I hate how read doesn't have a past tense.

Ok, I misconstrued that post.

[Selkies]

That part was admiration if he is town, I never can come up with reads that fact, which I guess is part of the reason I come off looking scummy to peeps.

...

So why is Bo town, if that part was admiration based on the assumption that Bo is town?

[Selkies]

PEdit2: Selkies ninja'd me grrr. Even though I disagree that giving reads quickly is a scum tell. It's mainly null, IMO. Scum might not want to give quick reads because it might put them under heavy questioning they don't want for reads they don't expect to explain the first time.

Given that I mislynched my hydra buddy based on too quick a read on me, maybe.

I still think it's suspicious if you don't have meta knowledge. Some people can tell the alignment of a person they've played with a lot from one or two posts, so that's okay I guess. But when people give strong non-RVS reads based on very few evidence, it makes me suspicious because it doesn't seem based on town-motivation of finding scum and more like giving reads just to fly under the radar.

This is a fairly pointless discussion though.

[Selkies]

Also, I'm liking this game's activity so far. Much better than the other Micro's I'm in, already 6 pages deep and it's only been like 6 hours.

I'm going to bed soon then school tomorrow, any other big questions you need to ask me between now and...lunch time tomorrow?

PEdit: Was going to question Rach about her 127, but Selkies beat me to it. So I want to know that too.

Yeah, for some reason whenever fery and I are in a game, it turns out to be really active.

uggh I did it again....

the last sentence was to selikes about her question on Bo It is not just the fact you are grouping them, it is the level of transparency in your post Scum generally post reads based on what everyone else thinks is a good lynch or to bus a partner or buddy a partner or WK someone they know for sure is Town but likely to be lynched, stuffs like that. That post did not feel like any of that, instead it felt genuine and based on what you feel at this time. I grant that most of the reads may change over time due to future posting that further clarifies, and that they are mostly gut at this point, since not much content yet, but still it feels like a town post of reads not a scum post of reads.

How strong exactly is your town read? Comparatively.

[Selkies]

Only question that matters: Are you scum?

I know this is a joke but did you really not find other things in Bo's post to ask him about?

[Selkies]

I sort of want to excuse Rach for her sideline sitting for meta. I kind of want to look at your scumgames now--can you give me your five most recent ones?

[Selkies]

#83: Icebox pulls Varsoonscum out of thin air, even though he's posted after that fact.

But

, apparently can't see Varsoon's other posts noting how not-serious the entire RVS business was. Hm...maybe keeping a closer eye on this. Might not mean much, but as scum, I can argue with my scumbuddy while there's a bigger picture happening, make a lot of noise, and quiet it back down.

This is good. Let’s ISO Icebox and see what we find.

Icebox is GiF and Rememberance (

Rem is the goofy one, but he is funny and entertaining

)..

Selkies you are Orc and ?

VOTE: Rachmarie Blatant, buddying. Sheep me.

If this is a serious reason, it really sucks. It’s not buddying; it’s just pointing out that somebody is enjoyable to play with. If this is a RVS vote, I’m not seeing what it’s achieving.

How is telling the truth buddying? I think I mentioned in the Newbie game we were in together that I really liked your style and thought you were funny and very entertaining to read?

Hey I can be funny too.

Scum 1: yo dawg how did u escape the town tunnel
Scum 2: dat B eazie bro. I just AtE my way out!

...ok it was terrible.

I also don’t like how Icebox effectively dodged Rach’s question here. It looks a bit like scum trying to end a conversation.

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

>"Hey he's doing something scummy, right?"
>No vote

VOTE: Varsoon

Explain those "absolute statements" please.

So first off, no mention whatsoever of the Rach wagon at L-1. At all. It’s a mine of information, much more than anything we’ve had so far, you have two people, and you failed to comment on it? Really?
Let’s examine who Icebox votes for instead. Varsoon, who just entered the thread. Icebox votes Varsoon for a legit reason, and at this point in time I’m thinking Vars is scum too for that dodge in 52 (I’ll explain a Vars case later—is he normally this snarky?).
But I still don’t like how both heads are ignoring the main discussion right now, and just looks like circling the bandwagon (where RM is concerned). And I think Icebox should know what these absolute statements are, and that this last question was fluff.

Why would you not put your vote on a person who you think is scummy?
Also I would prefer hearing you explain with your own words rather than going back and read. What do you mean by "absolute statements?"

@P-Edit: Sven wat

The first question is decent, but not the rest of this post. Okay so now we have a blatant refusal to read the thread of the game you’re playing in…after allegedly doing a meta case on Fery and I? This doesn’t seem real to me. And why exactly would you want someone to explain “absolute statements”—what are you hoping to get out of Varsoon? We all know what he’s going to answer, it won’t be alignment indicative. Bad question to mask as scumhunting. And I feel like even this jump on Varsoon seems like trying to find an easy target to avoid the whole Rach business. What would you have done if Varsoon replied to your pressure by voting Sven?

@Rach: Varsoon doesn't do RVS. I was with him last game and he didn't do it. (He was town.)

Sure.

It's night time and it's time to sneak my vote off while GIF isn't looking.

VOTE: RachMarie

Read Sven as town for unvoting her.
Then read Bo as town for defending her slot and voting Sven.

@Bo thoughts?

Okay, why did you avoid talk about the L-1 wagon if you thought Rach was scummy? This is also a pretty weak case to make on Rach, compared to everything that has been said. Not necessarily scummy though.

Also, I'm liking this game's activity so far. Much better than the other Micro's I'm in, already 6 pages deep and it's only been like 6 hours.

I'm going to bed soon then school tomorrow,

any other big questions

you need to ask me between now and...lunch time tomorrow?

PEdit: Was going to question Rach about her 127, but Selkies beat me to it. So I want to know that too.

Only question that matters: Are you scum?

So much fluff.

VOTE: Icebox

[Selkies]

Varsoon's posts are pretty bad too.

RVS voting is for losers.

Sorry, Selkies, really worn out and stuff.
I literally just got on the gloss what's going on and confirm that I'm in the game and stuff.

That said, seems like typical RVS lameness.

And Varsson ansers while I am typing ok.

Sorry, I wish I was capable of knowing when you were typing.

I actually didn't realize there was a second page so I was replying to the hydra discussion on the first one.

There's no such thing as RVS. Users invent it. I don't know. It's too complicated for me to parse out right now.

Okay so we get it that Varsoon doesn't like RVS. Just out of curiosity, how would you start a game? Because you've been blessed with information by people who have started RVS, and we actually weren't in RVS at the time of your posts. Why are you avoiding all of the information going on--do you honestly think htere's nothing in the first 2 pages worth commenting on? Not even Sven's outburst?

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

>"Hey he's doing something scummy, right?"
>No vote

VOTE: Varsoon

Explain those "absolute statements" please.

Don't need to put votes on people right now. Don't need to put a vote on a person if you think they're scummy.
Try reading.

Well actually you sort of do.

Svenskt is all making these absolute statements and stuff.
That's kinda super scum, right?

Here's the offending post. This to me is weird like hell--first off, if RVS is so useless and you think everything so far has been boring RVS, how did you come up with this alignment-indicative information? Why are absolute statements inherently scummy? And if you're calling someone super-scum, I'd imagine you'd also put down a vote to pressure them or at least drive conversation in some way. Where's the vote?

And are you normally this snarky in games?

I think there's at least one scum between Varsoon and Icebox.

[Selkies]

Orcinus asked me to post my reasons for thinking Svenskt could be town. What follows is a lot of meta.

I read his first scum game at MS a few weeks ago. I was mining meta on another player in the game, but noticed his play as well. It was similar to his town game (I knew he was town in the game I was researching for becasuse we were one of 4 pairs of town lovers). In his scum game, he was playing similarly as far as tone was concerned, but not trying to lead town in a particular direction. He has a sort of stock answer to someone initially FoSing or voting him: humor, and often a "Come at me" gif,

Here's the scum game http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25910

I went back this game to look at how he handled RVS and realized that I hadn't remember he subbed into the game and had missed RVS. He has no RVS meta from completed games. So, I'm having to put this into the context of his overall play in two completed games, one of which I knew from the start that his slot was town. So, my meta is a little more shaky than I realized last night. The combined play of Selkie is very different from what I'd be doing on my own here. And I know first hand how I've reacted to Orcinus' RVS buzzsaw approach: whoa...self - stay calm, step back, no quick movements.

A totally pissed off reaction to orcinus style RVS, especially if Svenskt was expecting Selkie to mostly behave like me, does not seem odd to me.

But, the suspicions that other people have expressed resonates a little. ATM I'm unsure just barely and very cautiously leaning town re Svenskt.

-f

[Selkies]

Sure Fery, I see where you're coming from.

I´ll consider cooling down when you unvote the only person that has been townie so far. Look at her question about trying to understand your reasoning. Icebox has been only fluff and is a much better vote.

Vote ICEBOX

Actually I retract my town read on rachmarie, selkies is a town lean thou.

VOTE RACHMARIE

Can you explain what happened between these two posts, given that Icebox didn't actually post between them?

Also rach if you have the time, can you go over how you approach the game in each alignment?

Do you often ask people for self-meta? Because it's literally ass.

Because as scum you would be peeing your pants.

Yeah, as Fery pointed out earlier,

Because as scum you would be peeing your pants.

That's not what you said about my scum game before.

Where are you getting the idea that we would fear you, if you were town and we were scum? Because I'm certainly not getting that idea.

And 101.

Also: If fery and I are in disagreement over a read, we'll post it in thread. If we don't, you can reasonably assume that we're in unison.

[Selkies]

Holy shit, 6 pages? I need to pay more attention. >.>

I need to go read, my bad. Hope I didn't hammer anyone.

And unvoting was not in consideration at all when you realized you put Rach at L-1?

Really?

Ok. This is what is happening.

Rem thinks Rach is scummy based on her meta and stuff. Me, not so much convinced.

I have played a game with Varsoon before, and the way I'm doing (at least, was doing, thanks to Rem) is the best way to read Varsoon for me, since his thought process is pretty easy to follow. While talking with Varsoon this way, I can see his motive behind his posts easily. Hence my push there. Also about not knowing "absolute statement" is: I'm serious on this one. English is not my native language and sometimes I have hard time understanding some of the words/concept/etc.

Also those "fluffs," well that's Rem for you.

So while Rem is not here, let me continue to do my stuff.
VOTE: Varsoon

Also about those push on Rach, I'll let Rem explain those.

-G

Rach is town for this terrible wagon.

Can the two of you sign your posts, it's really frustrating. So I assume the person taking you guys off Rach was...Rem, and you're the person who initially voted Varsoon?

[Selkies]

But why did both of you ignore Rach while the wagon was building?

[Selkies]

VOTE: RachMarie

dude wtf

p-edit - I see you're called out six ways from Sunday already.

[Selkies]

Okay, actually woke up a little earlier than expected.

I don't really agree with any of Selkies' Icebox case, except that his vote on Varsoon is pretty weird, and his next post trying to reinforce it.

Also, notice you give Icebox crap for not really saying anything in L-1, but leaving Majiffy alone. Actually, you haven't even mentioned Majiffy (with a simple Ctrl+F in your ISO, anyway, will do a more complete read of the ISO when I have more time).

I don't see scum motivation for Varsoon to say any of what he's said so far, either.

Why is Rach town for that terrible wagon? I don't get it.

I don't either

-f

[Selkies]

And unvoting was not in consideration at all when you realized you put Rach at L-1?

I don't see what it could hurt. Anyway, re-reading.

Sure.

Okay, actually woke up a little earlier than expected.

I don't really agree with any of Selkies' Icebox case, except that his vote on Varsoon is pretty weird, and his next post trying to reinforce it.

Also, notice you give Icebox crap for not really saying anything in L-1, but leaving Majiffy alone. Actually, you haven't even mentioned Majiffy (with a simple Ctrl+F in your ISO, anyway, will do a more complete read of the ISO when I have more time).

I don't see scum motivation for Varsoon to say any of what he's said so far, either.

Why is Rach town for that terrible wagon? I don't get it.

You /need/ to say why you disagree with cases.

I haven't talked about Majiffy because...oh yeah, there's nothing to talk about. Right. He entered, gave a RVS L-1, and left. So he effectively hasn't been here. Why would I talk about Majiffy?

How about Varsoon faking to scumhunt?

I don't like several votes on Rach. Majiffy, but that's RVS for you. More importantly, Icebox, D_O, Sven, and my scumreads on the people on Rach's wagon makes Rach likely to be town from my perspective.

[Selkies]

*on some people on Rach's wagon

[Selkies]

But why did both of you ignore Rach while the wagon was building?

Define "Ignore."

I'm really not sure what's going on here

Ignore being you didn't comment on Rach's wagon, what other interpretations exist?

I just remembered that Majiffy doesn't play RVS.

Oh, really?

Huh.

[Selkies]

Icebox I asked this twice now, and you've played with Varsoon. Is he normally snarky?

[Selkies]

Well I did comment on Majiffy putting Rach in L-1.

Also, it's not really ignoring the wagon, but rather Rem missing his timing to comment on Rach.

-G

So in retrospect what are you thinking about the wagon? Who's town, who's scum?

[Selkies]

Yours

[Selkies]

No, Jennifer isn't here.

Why is Sven scum based on meta? His play as town is much smoother than his posts here, but as far as we're concerned, it's also markably different from his play as scum.

[Selkies]

I think he's bit too serious in early game compared to his early town play I've read.

If this is polygamist, Sven was never under any pressure in that game, so the comparison doesn't really hold.

Rach: Null. I'm not quite convince Rach being scum yet but I did take a note of Rach being passive until Majiffy's vote.
Sven: L.Scum imo based on his town meta and stuff.
Selkies: town
Bo: He's kinda in between null and leaning town.
Majiffy/D_O: If you expect me to have a read other than null on them, you're expecting too much from me.
Varsoon: He's being Varsoon all right. My gut says he's town, but I want to make sure since he's the one I'm pretty confident reading.
Jennifer: Is she even here?

You realize your vote is on Varsoon and that you've never addressed Sven before this point, what's up with that

Pedit: Yeah. I actually think it's easy enough to tell apart our posting, but I'll sign if you want me to.

[Selkies]

No, Jennifer isn't here.

Why is Sven scum based on meta? His play as town is much smoother than his posts here, but as far as we're concerned, it's also markably different from his play as scum.

Also can I assume that unsigned post from you is from orc?

Not 100%. I don't always remember to sign, especially when I'm really engaged in a fast-moving thread section.

-f

[Selkies]

@Selkies
- What made you choose to vote Icebox over Varsoon?

Well Icebox is scummier I'm not sure how else to answer this

[Selkies]

@Selkies
- What made you choose to vote Icebox over Varsoon?

Well Icebox is scummier I'm not sure how else to answer this

Also a lot of your questions are really bad but I'll wait for people to answer them before bitching at you for it

Icebox, your read list doesn't make sense to me.

You're voting Varsoon, and have a town read on him
The only NLS on that list is Sven and you haven't mentioned him at all, no interactions, nothing, and no vote.
This is after you bitched at Varsoon for not voting his scumread.

[Selkies]

It was not that he put it at L-1, it was that he did not state a case or anything really, so it looks more like an OMGUS since I had my RVS vote on him.

Sorry this is belated but: Is this out of curiosity or do you actually think this is alignment indicative

[Selkies]

I'm so confused, what are you trying to achieve with your vote on Varsoon if you think Varsoon is town.

Oh wait

Oh ok

[Selkies]

UNVOTE:

[Selkies]

Lets do this until I think of something better

VOTE MAJIFFY

.

Are you intentionally ignoring me for a reason

145

[Selkies]

VOTE: Sven

[Selkies]

First of all, please learn to format your posts in a way that makes them easier to quote and respond to.

You're not serious. Like. After that post? No, you can't be serious.

Since I’m town, and I know I’m town, I can deduce instantly that I’m not in a scumteam with Icebox. This doesn’t mean Icebox isn’t trying to buddy me, and it’s pretty easy to do, considering we were in a game with each other before and he totally duped me and got a scumwin. It might be my last game talking, but I’m leaning scummier towards Icebox just because of that, and it’s not a good mentality for me to have. Regardless, I do see a level of buddying, and I have to discern if it’s simply because Icebox is acknowledging me from the previous game or if he’s scum. I don’t like the scumbluffs so far (Post 28), either.

Sure.

Okay, I did laugh at the AtE my way out part. I also agree that it was a dodge, but LOLRVS.
Can we make LOLRVS a thing?
Fuck RVS.

You get to RVS later.

I agree with your Icebox post, but I’m also preeeetty wary of you. Here’s why.
In a game-climate where a wagon just failed, you make a compelling case against Icebox.
Good scum-hunting, or scum trying to start another wagon with some inertia this time?
We’ll see. We’ll see.

You're literally wary of me because I built a nice case?
Narrative spinning. But you recognize this.

If by bad, you mean… awesome?

Here’s how I’d start a game, and I hope that you’re either ready for dinner or sitting on a toilet because it’ll be a mouthful and it’ll make you shit yourself:
RVS is terrible. Since there’s no real information on any players, the game can only truly begin when there is content posted. However, typical RVS conventions avoid posting meaningful content. This is not conducive to the game and distracts from real reads and worthwhile reactions.
How should RVS be handled?
There is only one thing that you can responsibly, reliably post during RVS and that’s a reaction test. Refer to my first noob game for this one. While different reaction tests should be used for different games, I’ve been trying to work through a method to use in all games that will be applicable. I’ll call it “The Varsoon is Awesome Method: Why Scum Can Suck It.” Here goes:
You begin a game by randomly selecting one of the players. Everyone agrees to put that player at L-(scum). Because he’s at L-(scum), if he’s quickhammered, someone hammering is pretty much confirmed to be scum. Once at L-(scum), the player has to make their case for being town and why they shouldn’t be lynched.
Why does this work, and when doesn’t it?
It works because it gets the game rolling immediately, it has focus (even if being a construct of the game), and it gives every player content to work with. I’ve noticed most RVS end when a wagon begins, and by forcing a wagon to be at L-(scum), you move the game along instantly to the end of RVS without any of the fluff or other rubbish. If the information garnered from this procedure is inadequate, you can repeat it for every player until it gives enough. The only case where it doesn’t work is when town decides to be 100% of the hammering vote, which is town playing against its wincon in 9 out of 10 cases.

Sven's reaction test. Later, the Rach wagon. We moved out of RVS fairly quickly.

At the time of my posts, we were still in a shitty game state. Sure, it wasn’t complete RVS, but it was terrible.

Sven's outburst didn't strike you as worth commenting on at all?

If you read my posts, you’d know that I was ‘avoiding’ what was going on (nice twist there, bro) because I was glossing the thread and going to sleep.

Right, but there was stuff for you to comment on, so why did you say it was RVS lameness?

We have different thoughts on the power of the vote and how the vote should be used. Glad you like absolutes, though.

This isn't relevant to the game and I'd be happy to talk to you about RVS postgame.

As far as your response to my post-50, this is exactly why I made it. I actually talk about this in an earlier spoiler, but you fell for the trap.

So let's take a look at your reasoning here. You post something deliberately scummy. You wait for someone to comment on it. And then you call them exploiting your obvscum post.

Okay buddy, okay. I fell for it completely.

I’m normally normal in games. Also, I agree, there is at least one scum between me, Icebox, and you. PoE lets me know it’s not me, and your posts let me know it’s likely you.

You need to try harder.

[Selkies]

Let's recap why you feel that I'm scum.

-I made a case on you based on a post you admitted was scummy
-I disagree with you on RVS
-I built a nice case

Yeah, you need to try again. Good effort though.

There's a reason that you don't comment on Svenskt right?

And you agreed with my Icebox post and I can't find you giving them towncred later, so how did they end up in the town pile?

[Selkies]

Oh, but to be fair, Selkies is the biggest scum-read for me right now. Absolute statements aside, he's put me in a position where I have to pick between him and Icebox, and Icebox is reading town to me.

What absolute statements, the one where I tell you to vote for who you think is scum? Yeah, I'm a hipster on that point.

Or...wait. I was okay with Icebox voting you even though he thought you were town. So that's moot.

How am I putting you in such a position, exactly? Go quote it.

And literally, if I missed any part of your case, please tell me, it seems like I should've but I can't find anything.

[Selkies]

I wasn’t being serious, but I was trying to see who’d try to exploit the information I provided and who’d write it off. To be honest, I don’t know what’s scummier. I’d say exploitation, since we’re all experienced players, but WIFOM’ll have me believe that we’re so experienced and savvy that we’d purposely call it out as nonsense reaction-bait and leave it there. So /shrug.

And actually, here you say that you weren't even sure what you should make of people calling you out for post 50.

This is almost laughable.

[Selkies]

I'm not surprised he placed a trap with post 50.

Given that Varsoon said that he wasn't sure what the 'trap' indicates our alliance as...

[Selkies]

Only half of Selkies is pro RVS. /jecklyll-hyde

-f

[Selkies]

Only half of Selkies is pro RVS. /jecklyll-hyde

-f

Why is opinion on RVS even alignment indicative

[Selkies]

Hey Svenskt,

this is fferyltt posting

I would like your answers, too.

Thanks!

-f

Sure Fery, I see where you're coming from.

I´ll consider cooling down when you unvote the only person that has been townie so far. Look at her question about trying to understand your reasoning. Icebox has been only fluff and is a much better vote.

Vote ICEBOX

Actually I retract my town read on rachmarie, selkies is a town lean thou.

VOTE RACHMARIE

Can you explain what happened between these two posts, given that Icebox didn't actually post between them?

Also rach if you have the time, can you go over how you approach the game in each alignment?

Do you often ask people for self-meta? Because it's literally ass.

Because as scum you would be peeing your pants.

Yeah, as Fery pointed out earlier,

Because as scum you would be peeing your pants.

That's not what you said about my scum game before.

Where are you getting the idea that we would fear you, if you were town and we were scum? Because I'm certainly not getting that idea.

And 101.

Also: If fery and I are in disagreement over a read, we'll post it in thread. If we don't, you can reasonably assume that we're in unison.

[Selkies]

Only half of Selkies is pro RVS. /jecklyll-hyde

-f

Why is opinion on RVS even alignment indicative

It's not. Town or scum, I won't do RVS unless/until I'm convinced that I'm missing pro-team opportunities by not putting down substance-lite votes.

[Selkies]

lol that nested quote is awesome

-f

[Selkies]

Only half of Selkies is pro RVS. /jecklyll-hyde

-f

Why is opinion on RVS even alignment indicative

It's not. Town or scum, I won't do RVS unless/until I'm convinced that I'm missing pro-team opportunities by not putting down substance-lite votes.

This is addressed to Bo and Varsoon

[Selkies]

This ignore list business sounds very pro-town.

[Selkies]

Shit. I knew I'd eventually do that.

-f

[Selkies]

What do I do with player meta ?

I use it to make more informed decisions.

Do you trust players' self-meta?

A brainfart is in its simplest form the opposite of a lightbulb. Think of a cartoon having a great idea and a lightbulb appears above his head, the opposite would be a brainfart.

Whose brainfart? What specifically was the brainfart idea?

[Selkies]

Well, for the most part, my vote probably is set in stone.

Why is the ignore list business very pro-town? Is it really

that

pro-town?

On page 10?

I can't tell if you're joking, but the italics suggested that it was sarcasm.

[Selkies]

Only half of Selkies is pro RVS. /jecklyll-hyde

-f

Why is opinion on RVS even alignment indicative

It's not. Town or scum, I won't do RVS unless/until I'm convinced that I'm missing pro-team opportunities by not putting down substance-lite votes.

This is addressed to Bo and Varsoon

Bo: Why are you and Varsoon still stuck on asking RVS related questions, considering that it's not alignment indicative

[Selkies]

- In your "method" of getting the game rolling, how does the agreed person that has the L-(scum) wagon convince the rest of the people that they're town? Like, what content should they use to defend themselves?

Namely, here

[Selkies]

^ Never lynch. Ever.

why exactly

Pedit: ninja'd

[Selkies]

But thats not really why I asked... I retrive meta from data mining previous games.

Ok, that makes more sense. Without a track record self-meta is meaningless, as has been pointed out to me ad infinitim in MS games.

I wanted her to tell me how she went about the game in the diffrent alignments, not the things you see but her thought pattern. From that I can derive some information, and its a odd game related question, should get interesting responses.

Do you feel like you get useful information from asking people about their thought process in different alignments? That stuff is mostly closely guarded intellectual property.

Bo doesnt know is either trying to cast doubt on selkies or is being retarded.

hmm. Probably time to widen my focus then.

-f

[Selkies]

see the unvotes by ffer, revote by orc,

Relevant: I've been casting all votes and unvotes up to this point.

fery should use our vote sometime I feel greedy

[Selkies]

You /need/ to say why you disagree with cases.

I haven't talked about Majiffy because...oh yeah, there's nothing to talk about. Right. He entered, gave a RVS L-1, and left. So he effectively hasn't been here. Why would I talk about Majiffy?

How about Varsoon faking to scumhunt?

I don't like several votes on Rach. Majiffy, but that's RVS for you. More importantly, Icebox, D_O, Sven, and my scumreads on the people on Rach's wagon makes Rach likely to be town from my perspective.

Did you ever reply to this, Bo?

[Selkies]

Selkies, go Bo with me?

Data acquisition has commenced.

-f

[Selkies]

@selkies, use vote for info in the mean time.

Orc, I am not gonna let you dictate my tempo, you are not the captain of this ship.

I hate this so much goddamnit.

[Selkies]

Null lean scum

Tell me why you don't like my posts, let's talk this out

[Selkies]

Svenskt is your vote on Bo mostly predicated on his statement about his vote already being set in stone?

[Selkies]

Tell me about your firm townread on Ice based on Ice pointing out that your vote was L-1. Why exactly is this such a strong town tell

If it's opportunistic fabrication, you should be able to quote the parts I fabricated right

I can have multiple scumreads right, not just one? I'm allowed to do that?

You need reasons to go along with "thissux"

[Selkies]

Hey Majiffy, try talking to the Jeckyll half of Selkies for a bit. I think reading us as one entity must be kinda disorienting at best.

-f

[Selkies]

WTF???

Why are we voting Svenskt?

UNVOTE: Svenskt

-f

[Selkies]

Null lean scum

Tell me why you don't like my posts, let's talk this out

I agree with not a single reason you ever give for anything, ever. And that's disconcerting - even with people I disagree with heavily, I've never felt so polarized.

I feel like you're wrong.

Also Ice is town since my unvote.

Aside from that, I've elaborated on you in my two catchup posts. Go read them.

I did, no specifics. You need some.

Tell me about your firm townread on Ice based on Ice pointing out that your vote was L-1. Why exactly is this such a strong town tell

Came straight out of the townie's mouth. I feel like scum would have elaborated more, his was very matter-of-fact nothing-more-need-be-said. And that's townie as fuck.

Sure.

If it's opportunistic fabrication, you should be able to quote the parts I fabricated right

Sure.

Go quote.

I can have multiple scumreads right, not just one? I'm allowed to do that?

Go ahead and find a quote where I even suggested this.

Really don't like 143 either. Looks like lining up lynches. This can die.
^

[Selkies]

God I am really disliking every post you make.

Give me a reason here, because Varsoon's case was shit.

[Selkies]

@selkies, how on earth can a townie has his vote set after not even a day when we have 2 weeks?

@ selkies, mostly yes...but also his comment on orcs post about me being pro town for ignoring. That and something he said about icebox... that his 82 post pulled x=scum out of nowhere while in fact he actually stated the same thing that I saw, which was that X tried to cast blame but without confidence, which is kinda scummie. X is vandsoor or something, i forget.

Ok. This is kinda where we're leaning.

Bo says he's discomforted about Varsoon having a scum read on us. Then in 216 (I think) gives him a luke-warm defense. And post 228 is one of those posts that make me think of that dog-shaming site. Like you should have to hold up a sign saying "I posted this in a mafia game" with a crestfallen expression, right under the picture of the dog who is sitting in the tattered remains of what was once a sofa with an "I was lonely" sign.

-f

[Selkies]

I was going to say this earlier but I wanted to see more of what Selkies thought of Varsoon's vote on him before saying this: Selkies didn't see the actual reason Varsoon saw Selkies as scum, and decided to tear apart everything else multiple times. He thought he was missing something from Varsoon's small case, but I read it and noticed the reason on the first read. I don't see why Selkies didn't think to look back.

Is there a particular reason why you're not quoting this or...?

[Selkies]

This is good. Let’s ISO Icebox and see what we find.

I don't like that you started with this; bunny-hopping off some light suspicions by DBK to launch a case. Opportunistic.

Narrative spinning. DBK bought my attention to Icebox, I expressed agreement. If I wanted to be opportunistic, why wouldn't I stick on Sven who DBK also had down as scum and who I previously pushed for too?

If this is a serious reason, it really sucks. It’s not buddying; it’s just pointing out that somebody is enjoyable to play with. If this is a RVS vote, I’m not seeing what it’s achieving.

It's building a wagon. Which helps get us out of RVS. Which is pro-town. The fact that you can't grok that is what feels so entirely fabricated.

Nope. Because in RVS I repeatedly asked Icebox to wagon Sven with me and they ignored me completely. Read the first pages again.

So first off, no mention whatsoever of the Rach wagon at L-1. At all. It’s a mine of information, much more than anything we’ve had so far, you have two people, and you failed to comment on it? Really?

Did you just try to fault someone for pursuing a completely valid direction of questioning? Mhmmm yes you did. By deflecting off what he []did say[/] and instead focusing on what he []didn't say.[/] Everyone else was already talking about my vote putting Rach to L-1, his input wouldn't have added anything of merit. Instead, he saw something no one was talking about, and pursued it. That's town.

Yes I did. Because considering that Icebox had Rach as scum later in the game, I thought it VERY suspicious that they didn't even remotely comment on the Rach wagon.

---

Re: Varsoon (not going to bother quoting because walls)
I don't like how you start with "Varsoons posts are bad" and highlight that he doesn't like RVS. RVS is inefficient and generally sucky. There's nothing bad about disliking RVS.
I also don't like how you end with "I think there's at least one scum between Varsoon and Icebox.", in context with your poor arguments for both of them being scum. Hence my accusation of you lining up lynches.

Nobody likes RVS, but you can agree that it's necessary to start a game. Neither of my arguments were poor--especially with your critique of the Icebox case I think you're missing a lot of info. I end up with "at least one scum between Varsoon and Icebox" tells you that both are in my scumpile and I was reasonably certain of this, anything else is putting words into my mouth.

[Selkies]

Cool.

Now go wagon Sven.

Right here.

[Selkies]

Heh. I mostly like what you say here, even though you are saying it about my partner. But, my game style - though I've always thought it's pretty fast and furious - is much more deliberative. It's getting left in the dust by orcinus.

I'm getting a townvibe on Majiffy here.

-f

This is good. Let’s ISO Icebox and see what we find.

I don't like that you started with this; bunny-hopping off some light suspicions by DBK to launch a case. Opportunistic.

If this is a serious reason, it really sucks. It’s not buddying; it’s just pointing out that somebody is enjoyable to play with. If this is a RVS vote, I’m not seeing what it’s achieving.

It's building a wagon. Which helps get us out of RVS. Which is pro-town. The fact that you can't grok that is what feels so entirely fabricated.

So first off, no mention whatsoever of the Rach wagon at L-1. At all. It’s a mine of information, much more than anything we’ve had so far, you have two people, and you failed to comment on it? Really?

Did you just try to fault someone for pursuing a completely valid direction of questioning? Mhmmm yes you did. By deflecting off what he

did say

and instead focusing on what he

didn't say.

Everyone else was already talking about my vote putting Rach to L-1, his input wouldn't have added anything of merit. Instead, he saw something no one was talking about, and pursued it. That's town.

---

Re: Varsoon (not going to bother quoting because walls)
I don't like how you start with "Varsoons posts are bad" and highlight that he doesn't like RVS. RVS is inefficient and generally sucky. There's nothing bad about disliking RVS.
I also don't like how you end with "I think there's at least one scum between Varsoon and Icebox.", in context with your poor arguments for both of them being scum. Hence my accusation of you lining up lynches.

[Selkies]

Fun fact: "You aren't allowed to have multiple scum reads" and "you're lining up lynches" aren't even close to logically congruent statements.

I had two scumreads. I expressed my belief that there was at least one scum in the two.

Tell me how this is lining up lynches, because it's sort of not.

[Selkies]

Gah. Can we stop talking about RVS theory?

- f

[Selkies]

It isn't narrative "spinning". It's narrative. It's a fucking word-for-word what-the-fuck-happened.

You need to support this. I like how you ignored my point on why calling me opportunistic is a joke.

Maybe he wasn't feeling a Sven wagon. Maybe he had a town read on him. I can't exactly answer for him, being that I'm not inside his head.

This doesn't change a few things.

Firstly, in my case, I said that Icebox's vote on rach was pointless, you said that Icebox was town for voting Rach which builds wagons. However, Icebox's vote on Rach was the first (so out goes the wagon-building hypothesis), and I was encouraging Icebox to build a wagon on Sven (and again). So this is patently false.

No further questions.

So you agree with me?

I know a number of people actually enjoy RVS, so "nobody likes RVS" is factually false.

I also disagree it's necessary to start the game.

Seriously? Weird people.

But you aren't seeing the points I bring up in the Varsoon case. I'm not calling him scum for having different opinions about RVS. I'm calling him scum for labeling everything as "RVS lameness" while there was usable information that he should have recognized, for his lack of a vote on Sven.

[Selkies]

Fun fact: "You aren't allowed to have multiple scum reads" and "you're lining up lynches" aren't even close to logically congruent statements.

I had two scumreads. I expressed my belief that there was at least one scum in the two.

Tell me how this is lining up lynches, because it's sort of not.

Because lo-and-behold when one flips town, guess what you're going to advocate next? A blind lynch on the other.

You can't extrapolate my actions. Don't presume that you can predict my actions, because that's just stupid as fuck. "Oh yeah, Orcinus will do X which makes him scummy, hurr durr".

I have two scum reads. With one's flip, I would have more information, and thus I would reevaluate my reads. You can only accuse me of lining up lynches after I actually pursue the lynch, as it stands, I had two scumreads, and obviously I would want them both lynched given no new information.

You're grasping at straws.


To prevent future confusion, stressing again that Icebox is a town read for his reaction to my questioning.

[Selkies]

Oh I stopped reading it after the second sentence, I figured you were just elaborating on your bullshit.

Sven was an easy lynch, and you could be called out for it. You were sidelining your vote on someone DBK could pick up the mantle for later in the day phase when it got down to the nitty gritty and we were looking for valid wagons to end the day with.

Am I giving you too much credit for your level of intelligence and foresight?

I could be called out for an Icebox lynch too given that I was the first person to build an actual case on them, this argument makes no sense.

Shrug. I don't care much as that's got nothing to do with why I'm reading Icebox as town. Go pester him about it.

Sure.

Actually, you'll notice that

you agreed with me

.

What the hell?

You're calling me scum in part for my allegedly bad case on Icebox. You said that it wasn't suspicious for Icebox to be ignoring Rach because he's pointing out stuff nobody's looking at, I'm saying that it is given that Icebox had Rach as a scum-read later on and didn't comment one iota on the L-1 wagon until I asked them about it. You agreed. So the point stands. Thanks.

I wasn't arguing the case; I didn't read it past the first few quotes and the last few lines. I'm arguing that you're scum for some of the content therein that I

did

read. So clearly

you're

the one not seeing points here.

So you just admitted to cherry picking arguments, and given that your 'cherries' are being refuted one by one...really, I expected better.

[Selkies]

You can't extrapolate my actions. Don't presume that you can predict my actions, because that's just stupid as fuck. "Oh yeah, Orcinus will do X which makes him scummy, hurr durr".

I have two scum reads. With one's flip, I would have more information, and thus I would reevaluate my reads. You can only accuse me of lining up lynches after I actually pursue the lynch, as it stands, I had two scumreads, and obviously I would want them both lynched given no new information.

You're grasping at straws.

You set up a 1v1 with your statement. There is no other logical end to that route than lining up lynches. That's the long and short of it.

I can prove this syllogistically if you really need me to.

So basically, "semantics".

lol

[Selkies]

You can't extrapolate my actions. Don't presume that you can predict my actions, because that's just stupid as fuck. "Oh yeah, Orcinus will do X which makes him scummy, hurr durr".

I have two scum reads. With one's flip, I would have more information, and thus I would reevaluate my reads. You can only accuse me of lining up lynches after I actually pursue the lynch, as it stands, I had two scumreads, and obviously I would want them both lynched given no new information.

You're grasping at straws.

You set up a 1v1 with your statement. There is no other logical end to that route than lining up lynches. That's the long and short of it.

I can prove this syllogistically if you really need me to.

No proof needed. I do logic IRL.

IMO my other half has a great scumdar. It's why I agreed to hydra.

Who else are you currently reading as scum?

- f

[Selkies]

^^ i.e. I don't think orcinus sees it as 1v1, though that's how it parses.

I definitely don't see it that way.

- f

[Selkies]

And actually, this accusation of lining up lynches makes no sense given that I switched off Icebox later.

Why exactly isn't my vote on Varsoon?

[Selkies]

So basically, "semantics".

lol

Yes. Which is very important, as this is a logic-based game.

Who else are you currently reading as scum?

Not too keen on Sven. Other than that, no one, yet. But I have about half the player list down as firm town reads, so I figure if it isn't you and Sven I can just POE-to-victory.

And actually, this accusation of lining up lynches makes no sense given that I switched off Icebox later.

Why exactly isn't my vote on Varsoon?

I was posting chronologically, and I rarely tend to go back and edit outdated things.

I don't know, why isn't it?

p-edit: Good god, that wall.

Do a reset or something. You're way off at least on Selkie.

[Selkies]

^^
that unsigned reset post is by -f.

[Selkies]

p-edit: Good god, that wall.

Do a reset or something. You're way off at least on Selkie.

Says Selkie. [/quote]
Says half of Selkie.

The half that can't get a fucking word in edgewise.

[Selkies]

But you'd shift a lot of the blame to DBK for putting your eye on him.

...

So basically, if I build a case on someone after someone else has already expressed similar sentiments, I'm scum.

Gotcha.

You're ignoring that I addressed this when I made the point; everyone else was already commenting on the Rach L-1 wagon and his participation wasn't going to add anything. So my point stands that you admitted you were just deflecting off his very real scumhunting in favor of a bullshit argument. Thanks.

Nopenope. Because said "bullshit argument" was a L-1 wagon on his main suspect, so I would most certainly expect him to comment on it, at least briefly. They avoided it entirely.

Cherry picking arguments? No, not at all. Reading half your post as a low-fat substitute to the full-fat bullshit? Yes.

You haven't refuted shit.

Nope, cherry picking arguments. Intentional misrep of my case on Varsoon.

You mean like how you gave up trying to counter why Icebox's Rach-vote was useless?

[Selkies]

I don't know, why isn't it?

Because I wasn't lining up lynches, idk?

[Selkies]

I just don't see how making an ignore list is very protown. The idea seems like a possible town tell to me, not a big one.

I was sarcastic, just in case you didn't catch that when I last posted it.

[Selkies]

Faking scumminess is good for early reaction tests, even if it gets you quickhammered because you'll flip town and it'll narrow the suspects to the wagon. Also, it generates content from reactions.

This is

What

"Fake scumminess"

"People who vote you are now scum instead of scumhunting town who look for, oh idk, scumminess?"

What

[Selkies]

This ignore list business sounds very pro-town.

This was sarcasm.

[Selkies]

I was going to say this earlier but I wanted to see more of what Selkies thought of Varsoon's vote on him before saying this: Selkies didn't see the actual reason Varsoon saw Selkies as scum, and decided to tear apart everything else multiple times. He thought he was missing something from Varsoon's small case, but I read it and noticed the reason on the first read. I don't see why Selkies didn't think to look back.

Is there a particular reason why you're not quoting this or...?

[Selkies]

Varsoon, if you've answered this before I apologize for asking again.

Aside from here at MS have you played much mafia?

- f

[Selkies]

Nopenope. Because said "bullshit argument" was a L-1 wagon on his main suspect, so I would most certainly expect him to comment on it, at least briefly. They avoided it entirely.

It was early game RVS stage and everyone else was already talking about it. Read my fucking posts

If I were driven up to L-1 early game, you came in and found me suspicious, why exactly wouldn't you talk about my wagon at all?

Nope, cherry picking arguments. Intentional misrep of my case on Varsoon.

That's adorable, since

I haven't actually said anything about your case on Varsoon

.

Re: Varsoon (not going to bother quoting because walls)
I don't like how you start with "Varsoons posts are bad" and highlight that he doesn't like RVS. RVS is inefficient and generally sucky. There's nothing bad about disliking RVS.
I also don't like how you end with "I think there's at least one scum between Varsoon and Icebox.", in context with your poor arguments for both of them being scum. Hence my accusation of you lining up lynches.

lol

You mean like how you gave up trying to counter why Icebox's Rach-vote was useless?

You mean how I said I wasn't going to argue a point I never originally made in the first place? You forced that argument into the picture, not me.

It's building a wagon. Which helps get us out of RVS. Which is pro-town. The fact that you can't grok that is what feels so entirely fabricated.

lol

You're really losing it

[Selkies]

I don't know, why isn't it?

Because I wasn't lining up lynches, idk?

Ok well I mean if we're going to make that argument as a defense, sure.

I guess you're also town because your role PM says so?

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse here

[Selkies]

Okay I disagree w/ first point

Your case on me is based entirely on the fact that my cases on Varsoon and Icebox were bad

I've been proving how they haven't been, and you've been giving up on the arguments one by one, culminating in your contradiction last post.

Do you have anything else?

[Selkies]

For the love of god, Majiffy.

First off, you're not reading what Fery or Bo have been posting about your supposed 1v1, which comes down to the way I phrased a sentence. Given that I have since switched off one player and not gone to vote the other before you accused me of setting up a 1v1, you are incorrect in this point.

You find me scummy because of my supposedly bad case on Icebox AND Varsoon since you pointed BOTH out in 272. I have been showing you that you know NOTHING about the case on Icebox, that various things that have happened in the game that you don't know about, which is helping you misunderstand the Icebox case.

And now you are misrepresenting the conversation. I am proving to you that my case on Icebox was not bad. You are failing to prove otherwise.

Here is your contradiction.

Nope, cherry picking arguments. Intentional misrep of my case on Varsoon.

That's adorable, since

I haven't actually said anything about your case on Varsoon

.

Re: Varsoon (not going to bother quoting because walls)
I don't like how you start with "Varsoons posts are bad" and highlight that he doesn't like RVS. RVS is inefficient and generally sucky. There's nothing bad about disliking RVS.
I also don't like how you end with "I think there's at least one scum between Varsoon and Icebox.", in context with your poor arguments for both of them being scum. Hence my accusation of you lining up lynches

.

I shouldn't need to explain this.

You mean like how you gave up trying to counter why Icebox's Rach-vote was useless?

You mean how I said I wasn't going to argue a point I never originally made in the first place?

You forced that argument into the picture, not me.

It's building a wagon. Which helps get us out of RVS. Which is pro-town. The fact that you can't grok that is what feels so entirely fabricated.

You tried to prove me scum by saying that my case on Icebox was bad, a flawed argument which the below quote was a part of, so yes, you bought that into the picture.

I've defended against every point you've made against Icebox and the 1v1.

You don't disagree with all my views. For one, you're forcing me right now to defend an argument (Icebox scum) that I've since withdrawn. So that's overblown too.

Try again, Majiffy.

[Selkies]

Oh and the fact that you cherry picked the Varsoon case and right now are trying to say that you didn't bring it up is pretty solid proof that I've shot that one down too.

[Selkies]

You get bolded responses.

For the love of god, Majiffy.

First off, you're not reading what Fery or Bo have been posting about your supposed 1v1

Oh I read it, I just disagree. Particularly since you're acting like caught scum with the defensive position of "nuh uh ur points are wrong" as opposed to "no I'm town!"

Your points on why I'm not town are wrong.

Go syllogism that.

You find me scummy because of my supposedly bad case on Icebox AND Varsoon since you pointed BOTH out in 272. I have been showing you that you know NOTHING about the case on Icebox, that various things that have happened in the game that you don't know about, which is helping you misunderstand the Icebox case.

I pointed out the 1v1 in 272. I didn't comment on the Varsoon case. Stop misrepping.

You didn't comment on the Varsoon case. Really. So, Re: Varsoon, and the following "I dislike X and Y in this case" is...

There must be a twin in this thread.

I am proving to you that my case on Icebox was not bad.

Uhhh... Where?

Are you fucking serious

How about our entire conversation being on Icebox's case

You tried to prove me scum by saying that my case on Icebox was bad, a flawed argument which the below quote was a part of, so yes, you bought that into the picture.

Pray tell how I brought something into the picture if it was part of your case.

YES IT WAS PART OF MY CASE

YOU SAID THAT I AM SCUM FOR MY SHITTY CASE ON ICEBOX

SO YES, IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS ARGUMENT, YOU BOUGHT IT INTO THE PICTURE

You don't disagree with all my views. For one, you're forcing me right now to defend an argument (Icebox scum) that I've since withdrawn. So that's overblown too.

^ More caught scum mentality.

Right, proving your points wrong makes me scum, I forgot about that point.

It's 3:40 am and I have school tomorrow, leave questions here and I'll get to them.

[Selkies]

So if "the picture" is the case on me being scum, yes you bought that argument into the picture, yes you certainly did

I cannot be the only one seeing how fucking retarded you're being right now

[Selkies]

I'm done arguing with you, you're like a broken record.

Go make yourself productive and read the fucking thread

[Selkies]

So basically, if I build a case on someone after someone else has already expressed similar sentiments, I'm scum.

Gotcha.

By the way, Varsoon expressed suspicion on me before you.

"Opportunistic scum."

[Selkies]

VOTE: Majiffy

You can go bye-bye.

[Selkies]

Well, that's been a productive exchange. :/

I'm about caught up on other stuff and ready to dive into this thread again. I don't have any interest in rehashing your argument with orcinus. Will you be around? I'm going to start with some ISOs because hell if I'm going to reread this damned argument.

- f

[Selkies]

Varsoon's post 200 is so spoiler-filled that I'm not gong to try to quote it and insert my observations.

I asked earlier about mafia experience and that post is bristling with mafia theory (rather unique theory in my estimation) so I'll retract that question.
His reply to Bo's 104 is interesting. He explains that his non-voting post about scummy absolute statements was a reaction test, but seems ambivalent about the utility of such testing.

His reply to other-Selkies' post 141 struck me as unintentional irony. He asks that we format our posts so that they are easier to quote and respond to in a post that I'm discouraged from quoting and responding to. :/

Reply to other-Selkies' post 143:

More interesting game theory. I think I remember reading a game played to this theory once. It was painful to read. One town special after another was put to L-1, and forced to out before a vanilla townie was finally lynched. I lost interest after reading into day 2 and found something less depressing to do.

Here the previously ambivalent reaction test is now a trap, which other-Selkies has haplessly wandered into.

Will get to his scum reads in a bit.

@Varsoon, I'm reluctant to just dismiss this as scummy. I'm going to break down and read your previous MS game.

- f

[Selkies]

Disturbed_One has 4 posts. As well as the RVS vote that put Rach at L-1 again (I think...maybe it was L-2 at that point) and the post saying he didn't see how an L-1 could hurt he made this post:

Okay so as for my RachMarie vote,

it was actually intended to be an RVS vote

. I somehow didn't see any other posts past from day 1, so

the vote I made was based on the information I had read from there.

I have read through the 7 pages now with some slight skimming, at the moment I'm most convinced of Sven being scum because of the case Bo made in post 104.

UNVOTE: RachMarie[/uvote]
VOTE: Svenskt

Will continue to read and form more opinions.

I'm admittedly pensive about the utility of RVS. But, I feel like I'm missing something here. If it's an RVS vote then what posted information would it be based on?

This was one of Varsoon's scum reads. I'd definitely go with "Person of Interest". But, I'll need more content before I'd put a serious vote here.

[Selkies]

Re Svenskt, I've pretty much said all I currently have to say about him. He's one of the few MS players that I have experiential town meta on, and I've read his earlier scum game to compare that play to his known town play. He played a relaxed looking and confident scum game in my opinion. Scum players sometimes fall apart around the edges under pressure, but IME it usually takes a lot of pressure to get that sort of crack in the facade.

[Selkies]

I agree with other-Selkies that Icebox looks town.

I wish I had the attention span to figure out who else he thinks is town.

Despite the tardfight I'm leaning town on Majiffy. Damned if I know why.

[Selkies]

This is a little annoying. Couldn't get a word in edgewise earlier and now nobody's here to interact with.

[Selkies]

I was so excited when I saw there were new posts.

[Selkies]

My reply to your "case" on page 9 needs attention

[Selkies]

Varsoon's post 200 is so spoiler-filled that I'm not gong to try to quote it and insert my observations.

I asked earlier about mafia experience and that post is bristling with mafia theory (rather unique theory in my estimation) so I'll retract that question.
His reply to Bo's 104 is interesting. He explains that his non-voting post about scummy absolute statements was a reaction test, but seems ambivalent about the utility of such testing.

His reply to other-Selkies' post 141 struck me as unintentional irony. He asks that we format our posts so that they are easier to quote and respond to in a post that I'm discouraged from quoting and responding to. :/

Reply to other-Selkies' post 143:

More interesting game theory. I think I remember reading a game played to this theory once. It was painful to read. One town special after another was put to L-1, and forced to out before a vanilla townie was finally lynched. I lost interest after reading into day 2 and found something less depressing to do.

Here the previously ambivalent reaction test is now a trap, which other-Selkies has haplessly wandered into.

Will get to his scum reads in a bit.

@Varsoon, I'm reluctant to just dismiss this as scummy. I'm going to break down and read your previous MS game.

- f

It's hard to respond to roughly 10 pages of posts without either saying too little or being hard to cite. I'm sorry about that. Consider keeping your own posts and responses as concise as possible and do as little quoting as possible and then people's responses to you will, ergo, be less convoluted.
I'm sorry the game you read was terrible. I hope that this game isn't terrible, and that my involvement in it doesn't make it so bad for you. The last thing I'd want is for other people to not enjoy the game, since that's its main draw. Again, I think that my way of engaging the game and thinking about it is worlds apart from yours, and that's what is causing such a rift between us.[/quote]
I am not sure you know what my way of engaging the game even is. I've been playing for years in a short-day format where game days last 12 to 24 hours usually. And majority lynch is usually not the lynch mechanism - player with the most votes dies unless nolynch is voted. I'm in learning mode, adapting strategies that work well in that format to how the game is played here.

Our other game is long for the first day, then painfully short afterwards, as I put us in Lylo on a stab in the dark and to move the game forward, but made the mistake of mislynching on the final day instead of suggesting either a no-lynch or thinking it out. I think that I'm just not really happy with the way that longer games pan out, and I feel more attuned towards games with less players. I'unno. Read up.

I like larger games. 12 players or more preferably. I'm going to back off, given your actual amount of in-game experience. Practical experience goes a long way in proving and tempering theory.

Anyway, kept reading this and Bo's antagonism of Sven seems off.
I think Ice's assessment of Rach is fairly telling, and I'd like to see what she thinks about it.
Still holding Sven and Selk as my highest scum-reads, Bo's conning as less town to me, Icebox as more town than before.

Oh well.

I judge people based off of the content they produce.
Become transparent in your content,
Prove your alignment.

I strive for strategic transparency as town. I strive to look transparent as scum. I find the former much easier than the latter. I believe I've been transparent so far, and I plan to keep it that way.

- f

[Selkies]

gah. screwed up a quote.

[Selkies]

Votecount 1.2

[3] Svenskt Stål (Does Bo Know, Disturbed_One, Selkies)
[2] Selkies (Varsoon, Majiffy)
[2] Varsoon (Icebox, Jennifer)
[1] Does Bo Know (Svenskt Stål)
[1] Majiffy (RachMarie)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-04-24 20:00:00)

I didn't realize Varsoon has two votes on him. The count isn't up to date. orcinus-Selkies moved our vote to Majiffy, so I believe it's currently a 4-way tie. orcinus and I have been talking off and on about Bo. Right now, I'm thinking that's where our vote should be. I'm at the point where I'd like our votes to be consensus.

- f

[Selkies]

^^ By "our" I mean orcinus' and mine. Though some consensus with players I'm feeling townish about would be pretty cool too.

- f

[Selkies]

Will you be around? I'm going to start with some ISOs because hell if I'm going to reread this damned argument.

- f

>still waiting

342
343
344
346
356

I posted some thoughts about Bo earlier during the dust storm. 271

[Selkies]

^^ By "our" I mean orcinus' and mine. Though some consensus with players I'm feeling townish about would be pretty cool too.

- f

And Selkies are consensed enough.

VOTE: Bo

- f

[Selkies]

ff - I was talking more about the 'are you going to be around' bit, I thought you wanted to interact directly with me.
Sven - You'd be the only other gear I'm considering at the moment, so you should probably hold your tongue.

Damn you I was going to be gone for an hour or so.

I thought that comparing notes might be a decent place to start.

Any thoughts on Jennifer? Have you played a game with her?

p-edit lol

[Selkies]

DO has

no sign of Jen yet she will probably end up getting the ol cattle prod.

No, she made a laundry list post and voted Varsoon earlier. 187

[Selkies]

Ok so what about Disturbed One? How easy is he to get a read from?

[Selkies]

You have Icebox as town?

How do you feel about RachMarie? Orcinus says that she's sort of low key and unflappable under pressure. The L-1 yesterday attests to that. Can you read her?

[Selkies]

Oh I am being ignored. Splendid.

Rachmarie, get back here, I refuse to be the fifth wheel!

Why don't you answer too?

- f

[Selkies]

I don't know how accurately I can read her, but she seems town.

And yes, I have Icebox as town.

Bo?

[Selkies]

@selkies No, you two sort your shit out, I have no will of lynching either of you day 1, and you should come to that conclusion as well, however much your views might differ.

Who are "either of you"?

Me and Orcinus?

Selkies and Majiffy?

Selkies are currently in agreement about you.

- f

[Selkies]

I don't know how accurately I can read her, but she seems town.

And yes, I have Icebox as town.

Bo?

Town.

Have you even read any of my posts? I've given these reads.

Since the tard fight started? Not so much. Too fucking painful to watch. I'll page search your iso for "Bo" later.

[Selkies]

Yeah lets discuss your poor choice of a vote. Why are you voting DBK? He's pretty much my strongest townread.

That was quick. Why?

[Selkies]

I don't know how accurately I can read her, but she seems town.

And yes, I have Icebox as town.

Bo?

Town.

Have you even read any of my posts? I've given these reads.

Since the tard fight started? Not so much. Too fucking painful to watch. I'll page search your iso for "Bo" later.

I wish you'd respect your fellow players more.
Reads, please.

You would probably be surprised how much I respect my fellow players. I thnk the fight was dumb. As far as reads go, I'm busy right now. And I'm late. And a half hour on the freeway is just what my brain needs to process what I've been reading. So, maybe in a couple hours.

[Selkies]

@selkies No, you two sort your shit out, I have no will of lynching either of you day 1, and you should come to that conclusion as well, however much your views might differ.

Who are "either of you"?

Me and Orcinus?

Selkies and Majiffy?

Selkies are currently in agreement about you.

- f

Selkies and majiffy.

I dont understand the last part. I have a town lean on selkies, i dont have a town lean on majiffy but my scum read on majiffy would have to be very strong for a day 1 lynch. He is very active and from what I have heard a good player so we loose value in a early majiffy lynch. I know this will bring me heat but its my belief.

Edit @ Ice, allright, I dont mind rach votes, althou she has been at L1 and didnt give anything off. Where are you leaning?

Earlier, Orcinus was leaning scum on you. I've more Null, maybe just maybe town. We're going with my read for now.

I think we're kind of divided on Majiffy. And I'd like to get info needed to recalibrate on Bo if warranted, though it would mean my scum pile is basically people who need to post more. And it would make figuring Rach out more of a priority.

[Selkies]

Looks like Majiffy is done interacting. I'll be back in an hour or so.

Svenskt I approve of including Icebox in the town.

- f

[Selkies]

MAjiffy, why exactly are you using my reads from a while ago to call my reads shit? You and I are both aware that they've updated since then.

[Selkies]

I'm back. We're discussing our reads.

I'm a she.

- f

[Selkies]

They were still shit when you were pushing them. Just because you've backed off them now doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot.

You haven't been very good at proving this.

Where's your partner at, I want to talk to him more. He seems to have more oxygen getting to his brain.

Can mollie play for you for a while

IMO we should wait for D_O a bit more. He's a total lurksack when he's scum.

That's the point of my vote.
Gives him some reason to actually come into the game and make himself transparent.

Okay this is weird.

You made a case on me. I responded to it. You didn't.

Now you're switching off us to go pressure a lurker, which makes no sense given how steadfast you apparently were in your read of us.

What the hell?

[Selkies]

the sudden appetite for a D O wagon looks a little hinky to me.

- f

p edit oh snap!

[Selkies]

I'm back. We're discussing our reads.

I'm a she.

- f

Nah, this is the internet. You're a he unless I've put my penis in you.*

*Nachomamma8 is a she.

This would certainly explain why there are no women on the internet.

[Selkies]

No particular order. Fairly confident on all my town reads, pretty sure we could autowin this by lynching purely out of my scum and null reads.

Talk to me about lining up lynches, why don't you

[Selkies]

Talk to me about lining up lynches, why don't you

There's a fair difference between an argument from POE and an argument from 1v1.

You really ought to stop posting, Orci. Every time you do, you just put another ping on my scumdar.

Nah, it's fun blowing holes in your arguments.

So are you or are you not lining up lynches?

[Selkies]

Ok, so orcinus is checking my write-up of our reads. In the meanwhile, Majiffy, you wanted to talk to me?

- f

[Selkies]

I am not. I'd like you to show me where I've lined anything up.

You did say something about lynching within your 4 scum and null reads and winning the game. That's somethig resembling 2 out of 4 and you're 1) trying to apply symbolic logic to informal English and 2) pillorying him for your interpretation of what he meant by 1 out of 2 and 3) not liking it when your argument against him gets scaled up to your own argument.

I hate these sorts of arguments btw. Almost as much as I hate "let's lynch so and so for

information

".

- f

[Selkies]

Icebox - O - Town, f - leaning town
Majiffy - O - scum, f null leaning slightly town (see note 1)
Svenskt - O - null leaning slightly town, f null leaning slightly town (see note 2)
Rach - O - lean town, f - null (see note 3)
Does Bo Know - O - lean scum, f - null leaning scum (see note 4)
Varsoon - O - lean scum, f - null (see note 5)
D O - O - null , f - null
Jennifer - O - null , f - null

1. ff has not read most of the raging argument from earlier today because she figures that half the hydra outraged and spitting nails was plenty for one day. ff will read through that argument tomorrow. Majiffy read could change based on how that goes.

2. Svenskt read is based in large part on ff's meta base and comes with a few caveats. Svenskt didn't face any pressure at all in the Polygamy game because he replaced in as ff's partner and ff was beyond ubertown in the eyes of one and all. He faced some pressure in the newbie game, and handled it easily, but that was not the sudden out of the blue wtf is this pressure that orcinus applied during what passed for RVS.

3. orcinus has rach as lean town but knows that he's totally misread her twice. ff has no experiential meta and is sticking with null

4. orcinus has a lot of concerns about Bo. Probably the most pressing concerns at the moment boils down to his fence-sitting on us/varsoon/majiffy, and his not answering orcinus' questions (3 times) ff is trying to refine her read but it really depends on getting more comfortable with majiffy's reads. Right now, his terrible read on us makes ff question whether his read on Bo is also terrible.

5. Varsoon is the most complicated read. orcinus does not like his "reaction test", does not like his interactions with bo, and thinks his case and pressure on us sucks. The bandwagon flip from us to D O really looks bad to both of us. ff agrees with most of this and is probably being way too accommodating due to Varsoon's n00b status with this game being his second mafia game ever.


- f

[Selkies]

wrong account

[Selkies]

You did say something about lynching within your 4 scum and null reads and winning the game. That's somethig resembling 2 out of 4

That'd be quite a stretch to call 2 out of 4 "lining up lynches".

and you're 1) trying to apply symbolic logic to informal English

...So?

and 2) pillorying him for your interpretation of what he meant by 1 out of 2

Um...? What?

and 3) not liking it when your argument against him gets scaled up to your own argument.

No, I'm just not liking him this game. I've gotten into large-scale arguments with him before, and he's acting very different. Can't remember which Micro, Mollie might know. I'll ask her whenever I catch her online next and I'll fetch you a link.

I hate these sorts of arguments btw. Almost as much as I hate "let's lynch so and so for

information

".

Information lynches can be useful.

Right here.

Because if you lynch us and we flip scum, you're going to lynch sven. And then going to lynch your nulls.

If I lynch you and you flip scum... how does that make me advocating your lynch scummy, again? I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Ugh. *if you lynch us and we flip town, you're going to lynch the remainder of your scum, sven

Probably shouldn't have corrected it, now it just looks like a slip instead of you being an idiot

You'll fetch me a link? I don't need orcinus meta. I know my alignment. Our alignment. What I don't know is yours.

- f

[Selkies]

orcinus stop posting and get some sleep. we're not getting lynched.

- f

[Selkies]

If I lynch you and you flip scum... how does that make me advocating your lynch scummy, again? I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Lining up lynches

You're very bad at reading

[Selkies]

Rach marie is commenting on alot of stuff without adressing the game.

Yeah, I noticed.

[Selkies]

^^ that was -ff

[Selkies]

No, I'm just not liking him this game. I've gotten into large-scale arguments with him before, and he's acting very different. Can't remember which Micro, Mollie might know. I'll ask her whenever I catch her online next and I'll fetch you a link.

Mainstream mafia, wouldn't call it any more large scale than this one.

saying that town could win by lynching out of your null and scum reads is most certainly lining up lynches by your reasoning.

We did the same thing. I had (at the time) 2 scum reads, you have 2. Both of us want to lynch out of them. You accused me of lining up lynches--I can do the same to you.

That's your third contradiction of the game, step it up.

[Selkies]

but to also see how people would react to my vote being swapped--especially you.

How is our reaction to your vote-swap scum?

You /still/ haven't answered my replies to your scumcase.

Faking scumminess is good for early reaction tests, even if it gets you quickhammered because you'll flip town and it'll narrow the suspects to the wagon. Also, it generates content from reactions.

This is

What

"Fake scumminess"

"People who vote you are now scum instead of scumhunting town who look for, oh idk, scumminess?"

What

You didn't refute this point and it is applicable once more.

[Selkies]

I also don't buy any of your "reaction tests" at this point in time.

Let me tell you something. When you reaction test, you MUST tell me what you learnt from the test.

Your first "reaciton test" where you did something deliberately scummy--I called you out for it. I called you out for being scummy, something you agree to. You stated that you didn't know whether or not town or scum would call you out on it.

And then you called me scum for no other reason.

Your second "reaction test" is equally pointless and you have to tell me what you've learned or the exact structuring as the test, because otherwise, it's just you saying scummy shit and then covering it up with an excuse.

You said that we're in a scumteam with DO--seems very unsubstantiated and you need to explain this further.

This is the third time I've asked you to comment on my replies to your 200 or accept them completely, because your 200 case on us was shit through and through.

[Selkies]

Our vote is on Bo.

- f

[Selkies]

No, I'm just not liking him this game. I've gotten into large-scale arguments with him before, and he's acting very different. Can't remember which Micro, Mollie might know. I'll ask her whenever I catch her online next and I'll fetch you a link.

Mainstream mafia, wouldn't call it any more large scale than this one.

saying that town could win by lynching out of your null and scum reads is most certainly lining up lynches by your reasoning.

We did the same thing. I had (at the time) 2 scum reads, you have 2. Both of us want to lynch out of them. You accused me of lining up lynches--I can do the same to you.

That's your third contradiction of the game, step it up.

Who do you want to lynch, again?

Also, please put your questions all in one post right now and I'll answer them. I don't feel like digging them up, and I'd like to give you the chance to ask anything else you have.

I want to lynch you, Majiffy, Bo.

What the actual fuck.

I just asked you a question in 473. And you avoided it. Again.

[Selkies]

Why cant people see what I see regarding selkies.

Because they're not town

[Selkies]

Why cant people see what I see regarding selkies.

Hey Svenskt,

How would you feel about a varsoon lynch today? My n00b slack is just about all used up.

- f

[Selkies]

Jesus I go to play one round of backgammon and you guys make another page worth of shit.

You are not a good poster.

[Selkies]

@ Majiffy

Do you really think that Sven and Selkies would be so blatantly buddying like this if they were the scum team? for realz? Not paranoia.

Isn't it more interesting how Varsoon thinks it's us/Majiffy?

[Selkies]

2) They're just my two scum reads. I don't bother with associative tells until I get a scum flip.

Hot damn something I agree with.

[Selkies]

WHy are you so sure that Varsson is one of the scum, especially since he is new to the game and this is definitely not the easiest of games to start with by far... I have been playing for 15 months and I am having a hard time keeping up...

We do need to hear more from the following players though

Jen
DO
Bo

Also what is wrong with putting pressure on someone who is lurking? I am not saying auto lynch them, but pugh on them to participate...

Varsoon looks desperate to get a bandwagon going on

somebody

. It was hilarious how quickly he dropped the Selkies wagon in favor of one that looked like it might have longer legs. Orcinus has a whole case on him, and he's stonewalled questions over and over again. If he's town, he needs to do what he keeps telling other people to do - play more transparently. And "prove" he's town.

-f

[Selkies]

Selkies, on phone, gut says no to a varsoon lynch. I think varsoon stated that he didnt like rach, maybee we can unify there

Rach/bo + getting more from jen and od.

orcinus will be so disappointed. but, maybe a decent night's sleep will repair his scumdar if he's wrong.

We're still on bo. If we don't have content from jen/od tomorrow then yeah let's do what it takes to get them in here and talking. O D first IMO.

-f

[Selkies]

So I'm scummy for lynching scum. Gotcha.

You're scummy for lining up lynches and I think you noted my post where I corrected the post into what I meant to say, so this deliberate misrepresentation is pretty shitty too.

And as I've said before, argument from POE and argument from 1v1 are two very different things.

This makes no. Sense.

I had two scumreads. I expressed my belief that there was at least one scum in the two.

Tell me how this is lining up lynches, because it's sort of not.

And you have 4 townreads, and you think that there are two scum in the remaining 4.

This is the same. Fucking. Thing.

I remember you being just as stupid in last game. You were SK iirc.

You're trying to rephrase the argument to suit your needs; I have half the playerlist as basically confirmed town in my mind already. So while you had two scum reads and 1v1'd, I have 4-non-conf-town reads. POE is stronger than arbitrarily picking two names out of a hat and saying "one of these guys is scum".

Nope, because if you're wrong about even a single town read you're shit outta luck.

[Selkies]

Selkies, on phone, gut says no to a varsoon lynch. I think varsoon stated that he didnt like rach, maybee we can unify there

Have you been reading the thread.

Like.

Really.

[Selkies]

Selkies, Basicly, if we have icebox + someone else we can bully this town out of retardation, thats my plan

Reread Varsoon then, and let us now what you think.

- f

[Selkies]

now = know.

- f

[Selkies]

That really would have been more humorous if you hadn't posted before me, Selk.

You've been a little slow and behind all game, I'm afraid.

[Selkies]

^^ - f

[Selkies]

Selkies who do we add besides icebox?

Varsoon unvote jfc

I keep hoping majiffy will come to his senses.

I have Rach, DO and Jennifer at null. Rach maybe belongs higher than there but I dunno. She's not digging for reads IMO.

[Selkies]

Varsoon i cant read that wall from phone, but slow down. I think you might be town, selikie is very likely town... Lets work this out

I'd like to get a more substantial post out of Selkie before I'm ready to put him down as town.

Alright, this is -f. Talk to me. What do you want to know?

We put a lot of argument and work into our reads list. orcinus and I are not exactly of one mind, but we do respect each other's game and we're starting to feel confident that we've got a couple good town reads.