Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)


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Post Post #34 (isolation #0) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:19 am

Post by Thor665 »

tl:dr - this entire commentary block is all about introducing myself as the IC, blathering about my duties, and offering a basic idea of some of the strategy of the RVS. If this interests you, please read on (especially if this is your first time playing here) if not, feel free to skip.
Spoiler: IC Intro
===========================================================================================

Greetings,

I am Thor665 and I am the Inexperienced Challenged (IC) player of this group. What this means is first and foremost - I am here to play this game with you in a way that will show you what it is like to play on Mafiascum.net. I am here to win and should be treated as such.

My goals and the rules governing my actions are covered in this handy article: Being a good IC
That article is part of our amazing MafiaWiki System. I *highly* recommend this system as a good way to get your feet wet and to find out what a lot of the common abbreviations mean. There is a lot of play strategy discussed in there too. A lot of players consider that advice almost all outdated now. I don't recommend trying to run verbatim with anything there, but a lot of the basic advice is very good to at least be aware of as it can help you avoid blatant pitfalls as you become familiar with the game play here.

Now, as an IC I am here as a resource for you to ask questions of concerning game theory. I WILL NOT lie about game theory answers and will answer them to the best of my ability. I will also offer you the following quick pieces of advice;

1. Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is)
2. This site frowns on lying if you are a vanilla town role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end.
3. It's a game - have fun.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).


Vote: Sakura Hana
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Post Post #38 (isolation #1) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

It's not a question of if 'we' are out of the RVS, the question is are 'you' out of the RVS.

lso we can then get into 'what is RVS for' natch.

Generally when people say 'I'm out of RVS' and then unvote and vote no one else...then they are not out of RVS because they're still in initial scumhunting mode and have no real scumreads. When you place a vote for real reasons you are generally out of the RVS. Also, you should be asking yourself if your RVS is 'of any help at all' but I'm starting to wax philosophic at this point and don't really feel like writing a treatise.

I'm out of the RVS now.

Edit:

@Shawn - :neutral: You're right, I am not voting totally randomly, what a shock. I mean, clearly e're all supposed to just roll dice and vote like that and then sit and stare at each other shrugging our shoulders and nervously giggling like two kids attempting their first sexual experience in the back of an old Jetta.

I'm now content to lynch you too just for being silly.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #2) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:47 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 39, Sakura Hana wrote:He's been silly since he questioned me needing an IC help, i thought he was being silly for the sake of being silly tho, since that's how RVS begins i thought?
I thought he was just doing weak scumhunting, myself.
I wasn't aware RVS required silliness, if it does someone should get me the memo.
In post 40, Shawn wrote:Oh so RVS isnt actually RVS? Then why dont you call it something else?
also who is scum?
I usually call it over in two posts or so - if you wanted it to be random why did you make a non-random vote though?
Scum is two players in this game. I'm currently wanting to lynch Sakura first. Don't you think she's scum too? I kind of thought that was what your vote was about. If not, let me know.
In post 41, Sakura Hana wrote:And thor, if you're isn't random then doesn't that make your vote baseless?
If my vote isn't random it makes it baseless?
:neutral:
I would tend to think a non-random vote, by definition, is less baseless than a random one. What am I missing?
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Post Post #45 (isolation #3) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 44, Shawn wrote:UNVOTE:
Use your tags, young grasshopper.
In post 44, Shawn wrote:So why did you say it was a random vote when it was a vote for scum?
And why is sakura scum?
1. I didn't say it was a random vote - why do you think I did?
2. Because she had the most votes on her, why did you unvote her as soon as I sounded serious but not as soon as I voted her?
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Post Post #54 (isolation #4) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:54 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 46, Shawn wrote:
In post 34, Thor665 wrote:We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).
Then why did you post this if your vote wasnt a random vote?
Why not say it? I called the stage 'Random voting stage' but if you go to the link i provided it specifically says true random voting is bad.
Also, if you read what I said, nowhere did I say you should vote randomly, I said you should start voting and questioning.
What part is confusing to you?
In post 46, Shawn wrote:I thought you said town has no reason to lie? I guess this makes you scum.
Actually I said Vanilla Town shouldn't lie. Do try to read more carefully when making accusations based off what other people are saying. Or are you intentionally trying to misrepresent what I'm saying?

Also - a quick lesson in voting. You're forgetting to close your tags;

Code: Select all

[b]Vote: Thor665[/b]
[vote]Thor665[/vote]

[b]Unvote: Thor665[/b]
[unvote]Thor665[/unvote]


Will look like;

Vote: Thor665

VOTE: Thor665

Unvote: Thor665

UNVOTE: Thor665

Make sense?

=====================================================

Vote: Sakura

@ Mod - Just to be clear I'm not actually moving my vote.


=====================================================

In post 46, Shawn wrote:I unvoted sakura because I dont think she is scum at this point of time.
Why?
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Post Post #55 (isolation #5) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:57 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 51, sycorax wrote:Heya Thor. :)
Greetings, Mollie told me to 'make it fun for you' or something like that.
I'm planning to just speed lynch you for lulz later.

Why do you think Shawn is scum trying to look town as opposed to hyper nervous new town trying to be town?
I can't get a clear read there, myself.
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Post Post #57 (isolation #6) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:59 am

Post by Thor665 »

I know, that's why I'm voting you.
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Post Post #62 (isolation #7) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:10 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 61, Sakura Hana wrote:Yeah, but the fact that thor has mentioned his vote on me isn't random, yet he hasn't provided any evidence as to how i look scum bothers me
UNVOTE: Shawn

FoS: thor
If you're not voting anyone, and I'm the person you find to be scummy, why not just vote me?
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Post Post #68 (isolation #8) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 63, Sakura Hana wrote:Because im not 100% sure on it, just find you suspicious
Do you find anyone to be more suspicious?
If 'no' then why am I not worth voting, if for no other reason then to see how I react or to see who else votes me with you?
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Post Post #71 (isolation #9) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:53 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 69, Sakura Hana wrote:Various reasons:
1. I don't want to risk a BW and some scum quickhammering you.
2. If you aren't scum and get quickhammered then maf gets the upper hand.
3. Your posts are hard to read for me, but i don't see how you out of the blue vote me without posting quotes on how i'm looking scum, if it's not a random vote.
4. Voting you would be an OMGUS vote, wouldn't it?
1. Even if both you and Shawn are town, that's still going to be hard for scum to pull off at this stage.
2. Well, sort of - of course if I get quickhammered by scum you guys could always, y'know, lynch the scummy looking players who quickhammered me. that seems like a win.
3. I could obviously easily do this, since I have. I don't think anyone is debating that I haven't - and I certainly don't see why that prevents you from voting me.
4. Would it? Also, even if it was, so what? You think I'm the most scummy player here, if you're town it's your job to lynch me, not to try to avoid looking scummy, that's a secondary job (at best).
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Post Post #74 (isolation #10) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:58 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 73, MontyWhittaker wrote:Thor, I don't like your play at this point. You encourage us not to vote randomly, yet vote Sakura with no explanation? Why is that?
Wow, we're back there again.
I didn't vote her randomly.
No one has been able to show I did.
I specifically said I didn't vote her randomly.
So...?

Unless now we're equating no explanation = random...which is at least a stance.
However, i did give an explanation already, so again...not sure where you're going with this.

Maybe you should clarify what you're saying?
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Post Post #84 (isolation #11) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 75, Sakura Hana wrote:
In post 55, Thor665 wrote: Why do you think Shawn is scum trying to look town as opposed to hyper nervous new town trying to be town?
I can't get a clear read there, myself.
Can I take this as your declaration of your explanation?
It's certainly an explanation of one of my reads, though hardly applies to you in any way at all, which I think is what you're asking about. Of course, that seems strange, since it's blatantly not about you...but at the same time I can't recall you trying to figure out my read on Shawn.

What are you asking?
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Post Post #87 (isolation #12) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:30 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 85, TheIrishPope wrote:I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.
"Shawn doesn't look like scum.
Ergo - Shawn is scum."
:neutral:

Unvote: Sakura Hana
Vote: IrishPope
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Post Post #88 (isolation #13) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:31 am

Post by Thor665 »

Also, seriously, you're going to tos out a "hand o' suspicion" and not even vote a fool yet?
Lynch this with extreme prejudice.
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Post Post #93 (isolation #14) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 90, Ms Marangal wrote:I see nothing wrong with throwing out suspicion without placing a vote on anyone.
I do if it's early game, there is no risk of lynch, and you are doing nothing else with your vote. If you're going to apply the dread finger/hand then you might as well grapefruit up and apply a vote and have it mean anything at all.
In post 90, Ms Marangal wrote:Why did you think Sakura is scum Thor? I'm getting a vague town-feel from her.
I've already said why I saw her as scum - at some point somebody will admit they aren't reading and just ask me to quote it to prove it exists, until then I want to see how many people will ask about it in pathetic ways for no apparent reason.

Why do you see her as town?

Also, why are you defending Neko from rather minor suspicion rather than letting Neko defend from it?
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Post Post #95 (isolation #15) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:43 am

Post by Thor665 »

So...what are you planning to do to get reads and/or help other people get reads.
Because currently it looks like you're shrugging and wanting to sift back to the rear again.
Which is not particularly helpful to town.
If you're scum it's an okay strategy - keep it up.
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Post Post #119 (isolation #16) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:13 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 113, Ms Marangal wrote:@ Thor: Why not? and I wasn't exactly defending Neko per sey, Just stating to Irish that Leniency this early in the game isn't to bad a thing.

as for why Sakura is town, I get the feeling that she is trying to legitimately scum hunt, and truly doesn't understand where you are coming from, though is trying her hardest to go after her scum reads. I find her reasons and actions to be fairly reasonable for town, and not so much for scum.
1. Which...is defending the slot. I'm just curious why you feel the need/desire to. Didn't you want to see Neko respond to an attack in order to gauge the slot. Heck, maybe Irish did too for all we know. You then stepped in and prevented that, protecting a slot and also denying scumhunting. I want to know why - and saying 'why not' is not a good enough answer.

2. Maybe. Wanna vote Irish?
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Post Post #122 (isolation #17) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:20 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Or we could just lynch Irish now.
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Post Post #125 (isolation #18) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:44 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 123, TheIrishPope wrote:Thor, do you know something we do not? You seem a bit too eager to lynch me.
I doubtless know a number of things that the rest of you do not, just as you know things I do not.
I wasn't aware that I was 'too eager' though. I'll try to restrain myself to normal levels of eager.

People should totally speed lynch you now though.
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Post Post #154 (isolation #19) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:08 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 126, TheIrishPope wrote:Thor, would you care to explain why people should lynch me with such haste?
If I think you should be lynched I fail to understand why I should want you lynched a week from now as opposed to a day from now, or an hour from now.
In post 127, Ms Marangal wrote:If I was defending anyone, it was Syncorax, not Nekoko.
Thank you for noting that you are defending people.
You do then go on to explain why you defended Syn (a more reasonable defense) and didn't address why you defended Nekoko.
So I'll ask for a third time. Why did you defend Nekoko? Even if you don't want to call it a defense - justify leaping in to answer an accusation directed at him, why did you do that? You can call if kumquating him for all I care - stop dodging the question.
In post 133, sycorax wrote:Hey, does speed-lynching end the day like days early? 'Cause that could easily influence my votes. :shifty:
I still don't seem to have your vote.
Are you even doing anything with your current vote? I don't think you are.
In post 135, TheIrishPope wrote:A question for all again (pardon my excessive enquiring):
Lynch All Liars, yay or nay?
Nay. Some lies are worth lynching for, but certainly not all of them.
In post 140, Shawn wrote:This guy is really really useless, just asking the same questions, not willing to be open on his read on me or Sakura, and doesnt seem to have ANY other reads that he has shared.

Also he outright lied when he said he was in 'RVS', and he voted for Sakura. Then a few posts later, he said that his vote was for Sakura being scum without offering ANY explanation.
1. I am asking the "same questions" because people are avoiding answering them. I personally agree that makes *somebody* useless, but I don't think it's the guy having to repeat the questions. Oddly, you keep making identical accusations about me while not noting that I keep answering you - again, making this kind of annoying and hypocritical at the same moment.

2. I have explained my vote on Sakura. I have explained my read on you. If I quote them will you agree to post in your sig that you don't read games properly and Thor665's beard is quite manly and leave that sig up for at least three months? If so, I'll happily quote them for you. Or you could, y'know, just read my posts.

3. I have expressed more reads than any other player in the game. I've offered reads on 3 players...who has done more?

4. I did not outright lie and you still have failed to produce the quote of me saying my vote was random. Instead you produced a quote of me describing a game state situation that used the word random, but that clearly in the linked description and in my own words I noted was not truly random. Then you ignored me saying this to you already and presented a really sloppy case on me. You also repeated point #3...which I'll again note, I did explain, you just didn't notice it. Even she has noticed it by this stage and stopped asking - you think maybe that means something?

Read more, or get policy lynched on principal - because you're still a mushball of a read for me.
In post 146, Shawn wrote:The scum motivation is that he cant explain his reads properly or is scared to because he might be pressured on specific points. Its easier to defend general stuff rather than specific stuff.
Uselessness is a scumtell, because its difficult to be useful when you dont actually have to scumhunt.
:neutral:
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Post Post #164 (isolation #20) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:02 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@Corax - I know where your vote is - I'm just debating what you're doing with it.

You're not attacking him, really, you sound like you're fishing for votes from the sidelines.

@Tierce - I think you should clarify the bets thing a bit - when I read it I thought you meant cash type bets, not pride type bets. I'll withdraw the request though and apologize, I didn't mean to break a rule.


@MM - Hurm.

@Nekoko - your read on MM please.
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Post Post #167 (isolation #21) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:07 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@Shawn - I want to lynch Irish right now. I am willing to lynch you because I can't read you though, yes. Recognize the inability to read you is not 'totally null' it's 'he's playing in a way that is very awkward and untrustworthy town or is just scum' which makes it a much more reasonable lynch.

My reason for the vote on Sakura is here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4893398

My read on you is presented here;
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4893582

Also, I posted about RVS when we were in RVS...I wasn't aware I'd posted about it when we weren't. Link?
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Post Post #173 (isolation #22) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:26 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 169, Shawn wrote:About the RVS issue. Maybe Sakura referenced it, but I dont think anyone outrightly said anything about random voting. So why did you post it?
Also why didnt you say that your vote wasnt a random vote?
1. Oh...I dunno, maybe it was part of a copy/paste intro that I literally do in every single one of my IC games. But I'm sure I actually typed it up in this game only because I was scum in order to...do...a...thing...that...wait, even if I did do it only in this game, how is that scummy in any way at all?

2. I did say it wasn't random in my second post of the game, and I never called it random in the first one, so...I dunno, I didn't realize I had to clarify that my votes weren't random. Is your last vote on me random? You didn't say it wasn't, so it probably is random, and that makes you scum because scum...random...talk about...RVS....or something, right?
In post 169, Shawn wrote:This is a read. This is not an explanation. I asked for an explanation. Give it.
Explain how I don't have a clear read on you?
Seriously? Like what do you want, me to post random quotes from you and then explain how I can see them as coming from both silly town or scum? I feel like I have better things to do than that. Functionally I even sort of already did this when speaking about you, in addressing some of the 'trying to look town' think that Corax has issues about you with. You never asked Corax to explain spit, and she's even voting you.

Why do you hold us to a different standard from each other?
In post 169, Shawn wrote:I assume that your vote was a joke vote then? So is Sakura scum? And why is sakura scum, if in fact she is?
No, my vote was not a joke. I guess I need to mention that also now.
I don't know if she is. I somewhat lean 'no' but it's not a strong read.
If she is scum then she's scummy for all her vote sheeping and active attempts to avoid the spotlight. The problem is that could also be newb town who doesn't know how to scumhunt and is just sheeping players she thinks know what they're doing. But I'm fascinated you are calling out IrishPope for lack of clear reads when Sakura is right next to him.

Want to clarify that for me?
Again, I feel like you're applying double standards.
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Post Post #174 (isolation #23) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:27 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 172, Ms Marangal wrote:How am I coming off as "to friendly"?
Really?
:neutral:
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Post Post #176 (isolation #24) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:28 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'll let Nekko answer unless you want me to.
But it seems pretty self-evident.
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Post Post #183 (isolation #25) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:01 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 178, Ms Marangal wrote:Maybe both of you could, because I don't see how this is different from my normal play TBQH
You're defending everybody who so much as posts sideways.
In post 181, Shawn wrote:Its scummy because its activity without a point. setup speculation, easy to do as any alignment but more likely to do as scum because you cant find actual content.
:neutral:
Which might make any sense at all if my first post didn't contain a serious vote. So what was my plan, ramble on and provide no content and then...y'know, provide content?
In post 181, Shawn wrote:Because you are a better player(supposedly) and different standerds should apply. In your experience, are the players that are decently experienced more likely to be useless than new players?
I think players who play uselessly are more likely to be useless and that it meaningless to experience level. There are many newer players I find exceedinly content heavy and many experienced players I consider feebs.

So you do agree you are applying your reads on an alternate sliding scale of 'Thor needs to be better than everyone else to look even almost as good as them' yes? Interesting that you think I'm so experienced and good - yet at the same time think all I'm doing is fluff posting and dodging (and also that you're th eonly one noticing). Ockham's Razor a bit, yeah?
In post 181, Shawn wrote:This is the laziest explanation of a read I have ever seen. Wishywashy, and no conclusion. Cool.
Actually there was a quite clear conclusion. So...whut? Last I checked 'leaning town' was a conclusion.
In post 181, Shawn wrote:So to sum up your thoughts,
You wanna lynch me because you cant read me.
You dont really wanna lynch Sakura now I guess, but your vote is on her. Interesting.

Anyone you actually think could flip scum?
I haven't been voting Sakura for quite some time now and...it's not like I'm being subtle about who I do want to lynch.
Why aren't you reading the game?
In post 181, Shawn wrote:I didnt call out Sakura because I have a town read on her. NEXT QUESTION.
Why do you have a town read of her?
Also, if a town read can do the thing - why do you find it questionable when someone else does it - clearly town do it, yeah?
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Post Post #194 (isolation #26) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:47 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 193, Shawn wrote:Thor, is Irish scum or not? Why?
:neutral:
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Post Post #197 (isolation #27) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:51 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I was even going to respond to other stuff Shawn asked, but realized it just hurt my head.

"You didn't explain your read...until i asked you to!"

"I asked you if something was a scumtell and you gave a textbook answer!"

"I asked you for a read, you said 'leaning town', soooo scummy, totally unlike everyone else admitting to null reads, Thor must have hyper strong reads!"

"Also, when Thor has hyper strong reads it is scummy, because he pushes them weirdly!"

"I will still admit to not reading the game...why haven't you called someone scummy and voted them (like, yknow, you are currently doing - which I'd know if I was reading anything)"

"Meanwhile I'll also start soft setting myself up to shift to the guy you're pushing, even though I'm gonna keep tossing everything and the kitchen sink at you trying to make it look scummy."

"Look at me, I'm pro-town!"

Unvote: IrishPope
Vote: Shawn


Let's do this.
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Post Post #198 (isolation #28) » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:52 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Oh, wait, a vote doesn't exist for Shawn unless I make a case. Here's the case;

You're trying hard to look pro-town, when it is painfully apparent you aren't reding the game.
I don't believe town would be asking so many questions while clearly not even reading the posts of the player they are questioning.
Ergo - you are faking all of this scumhunting, and are scum.
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Post Post #357 (isolation #29) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:20 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 199, Shawn wrote:Oh god this post is horrible.
Why is all of this scummy? Why is me 'not reading your posts' scummy? How does that go to Im faking the scumhunting? You havent explained ANY OF IT.
I've explained all of it.
You just refuse to notice.
It's scummy because you're acting like you're doing it - when it's clear you're not.
I can think of reasons for scum to fake that they're scumhunting.
I cannot think of a reason for town to do the same.
Ergo...
In post 208, Shawn wrote:Im always asking people to explain their reads. All the explanation provided by thor has been superSmurfy. Im sad :(.
:neutral:
Shawn: Thor, why did you do this!?!
Thor: I didn't do that, how do you think I did?
Shawn: WHY DID YOU DO IT!?!
Thor: ...um, the closest I can guess to you thinking that is (this) reasoning, but it's clearly wrong because of (this) and (this)
Player X: Yeah, that's true, Thor did do that.
Shawn: Thor is refusing to answer questions!
Thor: :neutral:
In post 209, Ms Marangal wrote:If you mean everyone, you mean Syn, Sakura, and arguably you, then yeah I'm defending everyone in this game :|
You also just defended Shawn in that post.
In post 209, Ms Marangal wrote:also, this "you're so pro-town that you're scummy" non-sense is, IMO weak.
Considering that I called all that defending bad (anti-town) and never called it pro-town...what I see here is "how can you be finding me scummy when I'm working so hard to do pro-town stuff!?!" which hardly eases my read on the matter.
In post 237, TheIrishPope wrote:Voting is extremely crucial! I'm just too paranoid to lynch a PR.
What about maybe acting scummish to draw out a newbie who wants to impersonate them?
I would say that is a bad strategy.

Is English your first language?
In post 257, Shawn wrote:Start talking about who you wanna lynch.
Your list post was way utterly useless, everyone is null to town.
That is a blatant lie presuming you had read his post.
Other players are even attacking him over *how* he called some players scummy.
Meaning, not only did you skim his post, you then skipped all of theirs as well.
This is obviously not a town tactic either, all you get as an answer is 'I didn't say hat' and then, as shown with me, you call that a bad/scummy answer.
You need death - immediately.
In post 262, sycorax wrote:Not looking through the posts, we can see that.

1. Doesn't check who's posted (easily done by clicking the all users list at the page bottom) so votes someone for 'not posting'.
2. Assumes Sakura is IC so votes her
3. Is not interested enough to read the thread
4. "Don't ask me anything"
Yes.
Now vote the one doing the same thing and not admitting to it. At least Commandodude admitted they weren't reading gak and appears to care little about the game.
Guess which player look slike scum and which like a player who just isn't reading?
Right.
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Post Post #371 (isolation #30) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:03 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 361, Shawn wrote:Thor
That is a blatant lie presuming you had read his post.
Other players are even attacking him over *how* he called some players scummy.
Meaning, not only did you skim his post, you then skipped all of theirs as well.
Quotes now.
:neutral:
In post 360, Shawn wrote:Why did you just post that? Do you want to someone hammer me?
Yes.
That's why I asked them to vote you.
I've not exactly been hiding the fact I want you lynched - but you are correct in your deduction that I wish it to happen.
In post 229, TheIrishPope wrote:Nekoko: Appears and attempts to take control of the thread. Interesting. She raised points I had already explained and seems a bit too paranoid. Having posted very little and then fading away, I have her as a Goon for the moment, a Mafia who is definitely affordable. This is not an OMGUS view, I am being completely impartial. Her behavior seems... odd.
Oh, look, that is not a null or town read. It's a highly explicit scum read.
He had two of them.
So...y'know, read more.
Also, remember your case on me? It's all the same sort of thing, you saying one thing, me saying that's not how it happened, you demanding evidence, me providing it, and then you just attacking me again as though i did nothing.
You are scum.
Die.
In post 365, Ms Marangal wrote:Thor, the "you're so pro-town that your scum" was me referring to your case on Shawn, not me. I also did not defend Shawn in 209, I never defended Shawn actually. I stated my dislike for his wagon, but I never defended him
1. I never said Shawn looked so town that it made him scum.
I did say he was trying hard to look town, which is vaguely at least in the ballpark of what you're saying - but considering how you brought this up, it actually has no bearing at all. What am I missing?

2. Yes, you attacked the wagon in a general way - you can call that not defending Shawn if you like. But considering that you didn't attack any parts of the wagon specifically, nor any of the wagon pushers specifically, I think it looks quite specifically like defending him.

I'm also curiou swhy you're pandering to Shawn to convince you to vote me, but are dismissing my case on him when you don't even seem to understand it.
Could you state my case on him as you understand it and why it isn't convincing to you?
In post 367, Shawn wrote:Just LYNCH SHAWN CAUSE HE DEFENDED COMMANDO, I DONT KNOW WHY THATS SCUMMY BUT LYNCH HIM ANYWAY!!?!?!
Quote where I said this.
Should be funny.
Because I didn't. You made it up. I don't know why or how.

@Irish Pope - did you answer my question to you? I don't think you did. You should. Or maybe I'll speed lynch you instead of Shawn.
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Post Post #372 (isolation #31) » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:05 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Things ended up a little out of order there (it's late, sue me) the Irish Pope quote is the answer to Shawn's demand of me providing a quote.
I could also provide others - the post was actually full of reads unlike Shawn implied.
Also, it would be easy to show the people attacking Irish for that scum read - but I would like to think he could look back and find the rough page of discussion on that all by himself without my help.

I also want to see him answer my 'provide a quote' question.

This guy needs death.
He is scum.
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Post Post #450 (isolation #32) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:17 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 375, TheIrishPope wrote:Oh sorry, what was the question?
I asked if English was your first language.
In post 377, Shawn wrote:Thor. I have been flipflopping on my read on him throughout this game. But now I think that he is firmly scum. Not reading the thread isnt scummy in its own right, but apparently the the most objective scumtell to Thor ever. He never explains why not reading the thread promotes a scum objective.
I specifically did this.
Twice.
Do you need me to quote it again to find it?
This is one way it's scummy - it allows you to blather about whatever and never allow yourself to be held accountable because 'lol, didn't read'.
Also, as I stated, you're acting like your opinion has any bearing at all...when you're basing it off stuff that hasn't happened. There's a reason why misreps and lying are scummy - and this is functional that by a different name being done in a scummy way. You aren't scumhunting - you're lynch hunting, and that *is* scummy.
In post 379, Sakura Hana wrote:Just wondering, Thor why are you so eager to end the day early?
Why shouldn't I be?
In post 386, Ms Marangal wrote:Shawn making conclusions like this and dropping his reads scarily quick is probably another sign that he is town and not scum. I don't see how "Irish looking dumb" makes him town, he could very well be scum who is looking dumb so people will overlook him.
All you are saying here is 'Shawn changes reads faster than I do - that makes him town'
I don't get it.
In post 392, Ms Marangal wrote:His reasons for scum reads, and reasons for town reads are somewhat understandable though I don't agree with them. He's also consistent with his strongest read, which is, IMO inherently town. I'm really hard-pressed to find any scum motivations behind his posts.
Do you find town motivation there?
Also, seriously, he is consistently making up things and lying about what people say when he states his reasons for reads on him. Literally nothing he has posted in thread is functional nor can he be held to any opinion he has made.
He is active lurking and lynch hunting, and being open about claiming scum, and you're acting like that's a good thing and he's town.
The hell?
Justify this.
In post 392, Ms Marangal wrote:If he was scum, why would he protect commando dude like that? should he get lynched and end up scum, Shawn would likely be the next target and it would be insta-lose for them if they are the team.
Yes, if Shawn is scum Commandodude is basically assured town.
No one is surprised by this.
In post 401, Shawn wrote:Who do you think cares about this lynch? Thor? I dont think so because from the beginning, he has only pressured me and he has only talked about me, and has not talked in any serious way about any other candidate in my opinion.
Well, as long as we ignore me and the Irish wagon, and also my push on MM - yeah, if we ignore that then I have only talked about you.
In post 401, Shawn wrote:Look at what he did just now, came back to much activity, posted 2 or a bit more useless posts and Smurfed off again, didnt take into account what I said as a whole, but preferred to attack a small part of my play, which is what I said about Irish. Its easy to say that 'im not reading the thread' but difficult to say how that advances a scum agenda and what I have been doing to do that. And he didnt.
1. What *did* you say as a whole?
2. I *did* explain how it was scummy...you still aren't reading, and are still acting like you are, and that is still scummy.
In post 402, Shawn wrote:Vote flipflopping is a towntell. Right MM/thor/other dudes?
It's a playstyle tell.
In post 413, Sakura Hana wrote:Yeah, the thing bothering me about Thor is that he wants to lynch something ASAP, if he's scum, he's denying town more discussion which is a good move, i don't see how a town would want to lynch someone fast unless they're 100% sure of their alignment, which is kinda hard to be sure of at this point unless you're scum.
Spoken like someone who has not bothered to see if Thor only does this when scum, or if he does it as town and scum.
You have spotted a playstyle tell - now you're supposed to research it to see if it means anything at all.
Hint: it doesn't.
In post 430, Commandodude wrote:I have to say, Thor still looks kinda scummy to me, his vote on shawn looks kinda quickhammer-ish, although I'm not sure, most IC's wouldn't make that kind of obvious mistake....Or is he relying on us thinking that way?
I actually openly stated my hope that it would lead to a lynch - so I'm also clearly playing that wifom card as well.
Also, we have had multiple L-1 votes this game.
Hint: they're not inherently scummy, you need to L-1 a scum vote even more than a scum needs to L-1 a town vote.
The question is my motivation and how I went about placing the L-1. You're looking at a book cover and trying to tell me the ending. It's not a good way to handle a tell.
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Post Post #451 (isolation #33) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:20 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Also, everyone harping about my L-1 and desire for a quick lynch, allow me to play a little bit of "here's why Shawn has claimed scum"

Thor tried to push a lynch aggressively - he is scummy for this because...speed...scary.
Shawn *also* tried to push a lynch aggressively...when he did this he *lied* about what IrishPope had said in order to place his vote.
Then, when he was called on lying he said 'no, I didn't lie, quote it to prove it!'
Then when it was quoted and PROVEN that he had lied, he said 'lawl, didn't read!' and voted the guy who caught him lying to push a bad vote and called him scum for having bad reasons to suspect him.
Then people called him town for doing that.
And the other person scum.
And the other person managed to remain slightly polite when talking to them.
And the game went on.

Let's lynch scum now, m'kay?
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Post Post #452 (isolation #34) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:23 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.
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Post Post #461 (isolation #35) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:05 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Wow, I offer up a clear and succinct and important post...and then they glom onto the post immediately thereafter, forget that it's associated with the post in front of it, and then run off in random directions with theories I can't even begin to grok.

@Irish
@Sakura

Ignore Post 452 - it's too much for you.
Go read Post 451 again, focus on that one. After you've mastered it I'll discuss 452 with you again.
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Post Post #462 (isolation #36) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:09 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 458, Shawn wrote:Im flipping town Thor, think about that for a second. Humor me and please think that Im mod confirmed town. Who is scum then?
100% confidence in a flip IMO is either
1. A bad player
2. Scum

Which one are you?
Your push on MM was, 'lol stop defending so many dudes'.
If you became mod confirmed town I'd lynch Irish - remember me wanting to lynch Irish?
I never said I had 100% confidence, but I certainly have higher than 33% confidence, which is substantially good enough. What percentage would you find acceptable t this stage? How about 57%? I'll go with 57%.

Also thanks for (again) saying I said something that I didn't, and then making up a question based around it.
Also, good job, yet again, dodging my request for you to provide a quote (Post 372, for those keeping track)

My push on MM had some deeper issues to it, but, yes, that was a major component. So...we're now agreeing I *did* have other pushes than just you...but that they were "generically bad" and so don't count?
Oh, right, you probably diidn't read so your earlier comments shouldn't be held against you when you present wrong facts.
Mah bad!
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Post Post #463 (isolation #37) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:10 pm

Post by Thor665 »

He doesn't even say I was wrong about calling him a liar in his push - he argues "other stuff"

He is scum people.
Take notes.
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Post Post #472 (isolation #38) » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:48 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 465, Ms Marangal wrote:His changing reads thing strikes me as indecisive town.
His "changing" reads are actually not all that changing.
Look at his votes and reasons therefore.
Yeah...
In post 465, Ms Marangal wrote:I obviously do if I don't see any scum motivation :|
:neutral:
If something isn't black that doesn't mean it is white.
Explain the town motivation.
In post 465, Ms Marangal wrote:Don't see this
Are you kidding me?
He and I had a discussion about it.
I flat out called it a lie and QUOTED THE PROOF and he didn't say anything other than 'oh...yeah...um...thor is scum!"
I caught him lying, called him scummy, and his "town response" is to decide that someone catching him lying and thinking he's scum has terrible reads?
Seriously, how are you okay with that?

It's this sort of blind defense which makes you the one who needs to go when he flips scum.
In post 465, Ms Marangal wrote:and, if Shawn is town, Commando is also pretty obv town.
How does that work?
In post 465, Ms Marangal wrote:what I don't get though is how Irish is pretty conf. town, unless you are associating it with me flipping scum then :|
I was associating it with Shawn flipping scum.
I kind of said as much. What confused you?
Go read my post again.
In post 467, Shawn wrote:Thor, what can I say about me 'lying' other than the fact that I have absolutely no reason to do that as scum, dont you think I wouldve attacked his read on nekoko?
Like the stuff Im doing makes no sense from a scum perspective.
I am playing carelessly, but does that make me scum? Can you see my play as careless town?
1. Again, you repeat the old saw of 'I have no reason to do this as scum' and ignore how I have described how you explicitly have reason to do this as scum and not as town.
2. Yes, it does.
3. You are maybe playing carelessly. You *are* playing false, and that's a world of difference. I cannot see you as careless town because I don't think careless town would lie - and even if they did lie, then I don't see why they would then say the person who caught them making up gak to try to push a lynch would have no reason to suspect them. that's actually a pretty huge reason to suspect someone, and is totally justified because even you agree it happened (even if MM doesn't...) which means...why am I strange for suspecting you?

4a. Also, this is now the third time you dodged my question and demand for your quote.
I'll just presume you're ducking it because it's another lie but you're scared to admit it.
Because "careless town" would be scared to admit they gakked up, whereas scum lying totally wouldn't try to hide that fact.
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Post Post #610 (isolation #39) » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:53 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'm stopping reading at Page 21 - a note for myself.

In post 474, Shawn wrote:So you caught me lying = you are town? That makes no sense :(
Well...since I didn't say that...?
What I did say was "I caught you lying = I am scum" which *is* what you said, makes no sense. Yes, I caught you lying, and I suspect you, and you act like that makes me crazy. At the same time when Sakura decides you're lying, you keep talking to her like she's town.
That is further proof that you're faking everything you say.
In post 474, Shawn wrote:What is your question exactly? Why I lied?
I've asked multiple questions that you have dodged. Feel free to iso me and answer any five of them. I'm not picky at this stage.
In post 479, Shawn wrote:What am I lying about?
Well...since you've now admitted to lying...how about you're lying about needing to ask what you're lying about it?
Also, you lied about reading Irish's post when you voted him.
You lied about reading my case and finding it bad, since you think my case is Irish's case, and are dodging admitting that.
How many lies do I need to find? You are blatantly lying at a constant level. You need death.
In post 497, Ms Marangal wrote:He was town because of a handful of posts, those posts are him defending Commando, him trying to "understand" where others are coming from. That was the town motivation that I saw behind his post
:neutral:
1. Via his "cases" presented, it is clear he doesn't care about scumhunting.
2. Also, are you seriously saying scum never defends someone? I understand that's why you're playing the way you are - but it's not actually true.
In post 504, Shawn wrote:Makes me sad that you are not reading Sakura :(.
:lol:
In post 512, Sakura Hana wrote:@Thor: I was asking about the doc thing, as a player asks an IC, because i'm pretty lost on your reasons for your activities at the momment. On post Post 451 all i get is that you're calling Shawn scum, for reasons that i agree, but i mostly want to know who you're referring to in:
Thor665 wrote:And the other person scum.
And the other person managed to remain slightly polite when talking to them.
And how does this relate to your next post.
"other person" = Thor.
I am saying that people read a scumfession post, and then called the person who spotted it scummy for...who knows what.
I thought I was rather cool to manage to not yell too much when answering those players.

It relates to my next post insomuch as Shawn has claimed scum, and that is direction for Day 2.
In post 513, Shawn wrote:You guys know what? I have been looking at Monty recently and guess what I found? Scum
I just stopped reading this post.
I'm automatically assuming it is full of lies of one stripe or another.
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Post Post #711 (isolation #40) » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:09 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Meh.

Vote: Irish Pope
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Post Post #722 (isolation #41) » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:49 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I actually think that is the most sensible thing IrishPope has said all game.
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Post Post #727 (isolation #42) » Wed May 01, 2013 1:38 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'm game to call Nekoko town.
Just saying.
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Post Post #730 (isolation #43) » Wed May 01, 2013 2:46 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 728, Ms Marangal wrote:Thor, what happened to your suspicions on me?
I wasn't aware I'd changed my opinion of you.
Crazy, you should tell me when I do that.
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Post Post #746 (isolation #44) » Fri May 03, 2013 6:41 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 733, Ms Marangal wrote:Uhh... no. wagon hopping is hopping from bandwagon to bandwagon. There were other wagon that I could have hopped onto, but I did not. throughout the entirety of yesterday, I only moved my vote once. And what about you? You placed Shawn at L-1 early on in the game and you also used your vote far more frequently than I did, you hopped onto wagons than I did, and so did a couple other people yet you don't call them out on it?
Are you claiming that bandwagon hopping is scummy here?
In post 737, Commandodude wrote:Anyone have a read on Sycorax? He's pretty much posted every prod to prevent getting replaced and that's about it.
I have a better read on her than you...who has done the same, but with less input.
Are you seriously dinging someone for lurking?
In post 744, Ms Marangal wrote:Commando is pretty open with his thoughts, when he posts it's short but you know what he's thinking. That's something I find to be a town-tell of sorts. He also dared to go for a no lynch (which is always a bad idea) regardless of the kinds of criticism he would have gotten
Is your argument that players who make daft choices are more likely to be town?
Because I thought the case on Irish was that he was daft.
That's why I'm voting him, to be sure.

@Neko - vote Irish?
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Post Post #748 (isolation #45) » Fri May 03, 2013 6:53 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Why are you voting Irish with me?
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Post Post #756 (isolation #46) » Sat May 04, 2013 2:37 am

Post by Thor665 »

They did up a new Newbie setup?
Awesome, the one we're playing under is sub par.
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Post Post #773 (isolation #47) » Mon May 06, 2013 4:22 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'd like to see a few more votes in play, frankly.
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Post Post #781 (isolation #48) » Tue May 07, 2013 4:02 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 779, MontyWhittaker wrote:You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...
That sorta makes me want to call him town, frankly - he's being almost silly antagonistic.
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Post Post #794 (isolation #49) » Wed May 08, 2013 3:27 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Unvote: IrishPope
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Post Post #824 (isolation #50) » Thu May 09, 2013 5:04 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 795, Regfan wrote:Thor!Scum from what I recall (I'm not 100% on this meta and I haven't played with him for a little while though so take it with a grain of salt) is less aggressive in pushing a lynch and doesn't like going 1 v 1 as much as Thor!Town does
If this is true I'm unaware of it.
In post 805, Regfan wrote:Thor, going to need you to step up your game too and help me here; if you think I'm missing something about Nekoko-Ms you need to let me know soon.
You'll get more from me on the weekend - work is pretty brutal right at the moment.

I basically buy Nekoko's claim.
I think your request for a JKer CC is pretty terrible at this juncture.
Frankly, I'm against the cop one too - but at least that one makes 'any sense at all'.
Everything else is too soupy for me tonight. I will catch up beter Friday night/weekend.
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Post Post #827 (isolation #51) » Thu May 09, 2013 6:43 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@Regfan - I thought you were calling for a counter to Irish's "claim".

I'm still neutral on the claim call, but if it's all just for Neko then at least it's debatable.
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Post Post #829 (isolation #52) » Fri May 10, 2013 6:23 pm

Post by Thor665 »

@Reg - so...about that Irish Pope lynch.
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Post Post #835 (isolation #53) » Fri May 10, 2013 7:15 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 831, TheIrishPope wrote:May the IC or SE explain what counter-claim is to me
Thor was fairly inactive; I couldn't wait around with a deadline of two days.
Claiming is the act of stating your role PM - 'I am VT' 'I am the cop' ect. ect.
Counter-claiming is the act of calling a claim fake because you are also claiming the same role.

Player A - I am cop!
Player B - I am the real cop, you are lying.

Make sense?

@Reg - I usually prefer to just find 'a' scum, and then worry about partners. The easy logical answer is 'maybe one of you other scumspects' the sadly common truth is 'someone we currently think is town'. I will personally admit, for me - it would be you as the most likely current partner, albeit just from the play today, I'd need to go back to see if it makes sense yesterday.
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Post Post #836 (isolation #54) » Fri May 10, 2013 7:17 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 834, Regfan wrote:(There's a lot of things he does that are non-alignment related in every game; I've only noticed little things that are town-tells or scum-tells for him)
I'd love to hear them sometime :wink:
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Post Post #852 (isolation #55) » Sat May 11, 2013 4:26 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 847, TheIrishPope wrote:I see what you mean. I was just curious really.
Hypothetically, if I counterclaim, would that be good for us or not?
If you're the cop - yes.
If you're the Jailkeeper - yes.
If you're Vanilla Town - no.
In post 849, Nekoko wrote:
In post 833, Regfan wrote:Ugh. I was going to say "Yeah that sounds like a good idea since Nekokos claim is likely legitimate" but guess what I found: In this scum QT she states "I think the two of us should start breadcrumbing or something, don't you think? For example, I'll breadcrumb as if I'm a cop and you will breadcrumb as if you're the seer."
"It's okay. I didn't breadcrumb too D:" ~ I didn't push through with it though so whatever.
What are you saying here?
In post 850, Regfan wrote:Awestfie: When you read this, can you make a special attempt to read through the thread + post your thoughts in the next 12ish or so hours because deadlines in about two days and I'd like someone to bounce thoughts of with (And it seems Thors busy / not inspired to do so).
Hit me up - because now it's the weekend and I do have time.
I also, literally, just laid out a rather serious thought about you being the scumbuddy and you totally ignored it, so...?
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Post Post #854 (isolation #56) » Sat May 11, 2013 5:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

I know your town v. scum meta?
News to me.

I would agree that Neko/Irish makes little sense.

I find your Monty clear weak insomuch as the Sakura logic is easily explained as 'scumpartner spotted PR softclaim'
I find your Sycorax/Dino one massively weak though. 'Oooh, he wanted to know theory PR targets in a game with a rolecop, how very pro-town of him!'
Don't see that one at all. The rest of it is 'he looks like he's scumhunting. Well whoop-de-doo.

That said, of the two I think you'd be more likely wrong about Monty because a Dino/Irish team doesn't seem very likely to me.
It's also why I think you're actually the better scumpartner match, and want to mention that again.
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Post Post #856 (isolation #57) » Sat May 11, 2013 5:32 am

Post by Thor665 »

It very well might have - did I claim awareness or agreement with it in either?

Genuine scumhunting is the best town tell.
Someone is 10000% town off a theory townslip that you don't think they faked.
Okay.

Look forward to that.
Why aren't you/Irish a scumpair would also be a fun conversation for me to have.
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Post Post #858 (isolation #58) » Sat May 11, 2013 6:30 am

Post by Thor665 »

And your counter example is that I'm supposed to believe scum has fakeclaimed cop, called their partner a confirmed innocent, and that's their plan?
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Post Post #864 (isolation #59) » Sun May 12, 2013 3:52 am

Post by Thor665 »

I'm not available to hammer at deadline, if that's the game we're playing.
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Post Post #877 (isolation #60) » Sun May 12, 2013 11:26 am

Post by Thor665 »

@MM - oh please, if he is scum it's not for debating belief and thinking. He's scum for yesterday. Why are you trying to play up what he's saying as though it is somehow worse than just saying 'I don't believe the claim' because there is no contradiction in what he's saying now.
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Post Post #881 (isolation #61) » Sun May 12, 2013 1:33 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 879, Ms Marangal wrote:He's saying that he doesn't believe the claim, but he doesn't think it's false because it could be true... how is this not a contradiction Thor?
How does saying that make him any scummier than saying;

"I don't believe the claim"

or, for that matter;

"I do believe the claim"

Just answer that and I'll drop the issue.
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Post Post #882 (isolation #62) » Sun May 12, 2013 1:35 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I mean, I think we all agree Irish is hardly the sharpest knife in the drawer, and also plainly has English as a second language - and you want to paint him claiming 'think' and 'believe' as meaning two different things (which they do, subtly, but they do) is somehow a scummy contradiction...that he decided to do...in the exact same post, literally moments from each other...because he...what, thought they meant the same thing and figured no one would notice?
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Post Post #931 (isolation #63) » Fri May 17, 2013 5:33 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Vote: No lynch
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Post Post #941 (isolation #64) » Sat May 18, 2013 3:23 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Why?
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Post Post #946 (isolation #65) » Sun May 19, 2013 6:31 am

Post by Thor665 »

@MM - we have three suspects.
We have two lynches whether we no lynch or lynch.
We have +1 player that scum will need to fool if we no lynch.

Make sense?
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Post Post #961 (isolation #66) » Sun May 26, 2013 2:30 am

Post by Thor665 »

Vote: Monty


He forgot who was confirmed? I say yeah, he did, and it got confusing to him because he already knows who is town and who isn't.
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Post Post #966 (isolation #67) » Sun May 26, 2013 11:38 am

Post by Thor665 »

I can't tell if that's a glaring town tell or an awkward chase of MM's suspicion.
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Post Post #968 (isolation #68) » Sun May 26, 2013 5:02 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'm looking at this again - I like my vote where it is.
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Post Post #1027 (isolation #69) » Mon May 27, 2013 8:36 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1011, awestfie wrote:Although, I want Thor to out his read on Regfan / Monty with some details, because he literally voted Monty without saying all that much today.
I would tend to suggest my vote is a pretty clear indication of my reads.

Basically - Monty makes sense, and Reg rather doesn't.
If I'm right then I'll look brilliant.
If I'm wrong then I have to go head to head with Reg tomorrow, and will have plenty of time to try to puzzle out how he somehow makes sense as scum.
I don't see the value in bothering with that workload at this stage.

I appreciate that you have doubts about Reg.
But he's not *remotely* worth lynching prior to Monty.
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Post Post #1033 (isolation #70) » Wed May 29, 2013 5:21 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1030, Regfan wrote:Sorry, been caught up studying for uni finals. Seem to be waiting on Ms Margaral to catch up with everything at the moment anyway.

Thor; What changed from you stating you think I'm most likely Irish partner in , and to now where you say Monty fits and I don't?
It's a value call - he feels more likely scum in general.

Why are you voting him over me, since you're the one I was agreeing on about how Monty/Irish didn't work so well? I'd actually forgotten about that till you linked it.
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Post Post #1036 (isolation #71) » Wed May 29, 2013 5:33 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I will agree he has not placed an official vote.
My question stands.
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Post Post #1044 (isolation #72) » Fri May 31, 2013 4:38 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1037, Regfan wrote:Try and explain the "He feels more scum in general" for me (It has to be based around certain actions) and I want to understand if they're along the same wavelength I'm thinking.
I would say his posting regularity and content is the prime vibe. Town is in a *very* strong position right now, and he's acting like this game is pointless.
So...either he's town who literally doesn't give a fig if he wins...or, y'know, scum feeling defeated.
Derp. Guess which I think?

So, what are the vibes you're getting?
In post 1037, Regfan wrote:Also I never thought Monty and Irish didn't work interactions wise, I thought Nekoko and Irish didn't work.
Eh, mah bad.
In post 1037, Regfan wrote:given that Irish has flipped scum it means one of my town-reads are indeed wrong
Also, y'know, Nek flipping cop and confirming MM, that sort of stuff.
In post 1037, Regfan wrote:and I think he'd be more likely to miss a night kill then you).
Why? I have a history of botched night actions last I checked.
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Post Post #1046 (isolation #73) » Fri May 31, 2013 5:13 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1044, Thor665 wrote:I would say his posting regularity and content is the prime vibe. Town is in a *very* strong position right now, and he's acting like this game is pointless.
So...either he's town who literally doesn't give a fig if he wins...or, y'know, scum feeling defeated.
Why do you guys ask the obvious?
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Post Post #1047 (isolation #74) » Fri May 31, 2013 5:13 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Also, seriously, both of you.
You're the confirmed town.
Start driving you derps!
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Post Post #1049 (isolation #75) » Fri May 31, 2013 5:44 pm

Post by Thor665 »

No driving, but at least a stance. We can work with that.
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Post Post #1052 (isolation #76) » Fri May 31, 2013 6:29 pm

Post by Thor665 »

1. Defeatist then, if you don't like the word pointless. I don't see the issue you're even gunning at there. And if you think he looks like he's playing the game to win in his last burst of activity we do have an issue with how we're defining his play.

2. If you think his push on you is 'desperate' why do you not think a scum him would simply push on me? I don't get how that's a scumtell, it looked kinda townish to me, frankly, but his later play convinced me I was wrong.

3. Why in the universe do you need a link? Do you think I'm lying about that?
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Post Post #1053 (isolation #77) » Fri May 31, 2013 6:29 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'd really like an answer to #3.
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Post Post #1055 (isolation #78) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:04 pm

Post by Thor665 »

So, as regards #3, what are you expecting to find exactly?

Reg - I am sorta clearing Thor because I think Monty would be more likely to forget to submit an action.
Thor - I forget actions quite a bit.
Reg - Ah-ha! Show me those actions.
Thor - Whu?
Reg - Yes, because I need to analyze them. Because, if you're town then the situations won't be as likely similar, and if you're scum the situations will...or something. Kindly ignore that my previous thought was simply based off the concept that you would be unlikely to do something, and had nothing to do with the manner of how you may or may not forget something, and also that I'm not even asking what sort of actions you forgot, or really anything specific, but instead the hyper generic 'links' request.

I really don't follow - I mean, how many different 'situations' of botched night actions are there? You kind of either submit them or you don't, and if you don't and it's a 'botch' then it's because you forgot to submit them. I mean...how else does that play out...?
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Post Post #1056 (isolation #79) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:04 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Unvote
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Post Post #1057 (isolation #80) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:05 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I mean, I guess really what I'm feeling here is that all of this 'scumhunting' you're doing right now is massively faked.
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Post Post #1059 (isolation #81) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:11 pm

Post by Thor665 »

And if I'm scum your presumption is I would show anything that could suggest that this is something I'd do as scum?
Heck, I could show a couple of instances of me doing it as town and claim I've never forgotten any as scum - I could show only instances where I've been posting heavily at the time or only ones where my showing was spotty.

Which then simply begs the question, why ask me at all and not do the research yourself?
Arguably it would be the only way to get a legit answer, right?
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Post Post #1060 (isolation #82) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:12 pm

Post by Thor665 »

And this is from a guy who decided that 'Thor doesn't do this' when Thor does do this...which almost makes me wonder if that was going to be your 'bombshell' revelation after a townflip from Monty.
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Post Post #1062 (isolation #83) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:19 pm

Post by Thor665 »

So you agree that it was a scumhunting question with questionable gain, at best, and that it makes sense for me to question its scumhunting worth?
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Post Post #1064 (isolation #84) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:24 pm

Post by Thor665 »

No links for you (though, hint, I have done it as town, scum, and a variety of different PRs, and also during periods of high and low activity).

Why should I accept any of this as valid scumhunting? Just the generic 'more info betta!' Really? You'd researched Monty to find something that justified him forgetting to submit a night action...you really want me to believe you had *no idea at all, really, swearz!' that I have a history of forgetting night actions? I mean, that doesn't look a little off to you?
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Post Post #1067 (isolation #85) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:29 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Though, again, where does this 'can I see them?' gak even enter into play. Your ruddy case is half based around him forgetting stuff, and me not, and now I'm pointing out that I forget play stuff too and your answer isn't 'well, that's a minor point' or maybe 'have you ever done so as scum...with a kill?' or anything else. No, it's the generic knee-jerk fake response of 'link?' as in 'look at me, so town, gonna do the research and stuffz!' And also 'Thor, as scumz, will totally give me anything valid to call him scumz off of from his 100s+1 games!'

I mean, if you agree I have lot of games, and you agree that I'm not lying about forgetting night actions, and you think I'm scum choosing to bring up that I forget night actions...you think, what, I couldn't just show you 2-3 options that would help hint that I'm town in this game?

Is that what you're saying scumThor wouldn't be able to do?

Because otherwise your request makes little sense to me.
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Post Post #1071 (isolation #86) » Fri May 31, 2013 7:43 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1069, Regfan wrote:and asking "Was it as scum with a kill" is literally the same asking for the links (How you're attempting to differentiate them is something I'll never comprehend).
Because it's the drive of the question.

If I say 'I breadcrumb all the time' in a situation where I've breadcrumbed.
You could say 'links?'
Or you could say 'Do you breadcrumb when scum?'

One is a passive comment, made to look good. The other is an aggressive comment, made to force an answer with an actual scumhunting point.
That's why I'm drawng the distinction.
It all feels fake and worked up.

Also, I really do feel like you've made a rather big deal of the 'forgetting' aspect of your case.
Functionally - you opened the day with that. It's a major part of your push, and I think you intended it to be exactly that.
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Post Post #1080 (isolation #87) » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

I feel like you're gakking with us.
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Post Post #1086 (isolation #88) » Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

My sarcast-o-meter is reading 'snarky'.
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Post Post #1096 (isolation #89) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:21 pm

Post by Thor665 »

1) That is a rather awkward misrep of what I said. *You* were the one saying it wasn't a big part of your case, and I was saying it was. So...yeah...whut?
2) Arguing an IC has to be mafia is proof that you're not mafia? Eh...not really buying that one.
3) It's called distancing *because* he had a lot of suspicion on him Day 1...I thought that was called 'normal scumplay'
4) And you're provably town because you think you look like you've been trying hard?

I'm glad that you stayed up over the night phase typing up that case o' awesome.

Vote: Regfan


My case is - die scum.
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Post Post #1097 (isolation #90) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:25 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Oh, whatever - add in whatever thoughts I presented the other day tying you to Irish.
And yesterday I was catching on to you too, probably had some good points then as well.
That's my case.

Also - die scum.
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Post Post #1139 (isolation #91) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:27 pm

Post by Thor665 »

It went bad for us when I derped on the night kill, really - probably could have still pulled it off if I hadn't.
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Post Post #1141 (isolation #92) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:38 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I was a bad IC this game due to my real life work schedule - but here are my thoughts;

The big 'weakness' in your play is, functionally, that you're new. You spent a lot of time hemming and hawing over minor things, and also seemed rather intimidated to toss out votes (and, let's be honest here, the fear of 'quick lynches' Day 1...I think I've got, maybe two or three of them in my entire repertoire? It doesn't happen often, and it's still good scumhunting info when it does). My core suggestion for you would be to be more willing to take solid stances. A lot of your ideas were not bad, but you seemed scared to stand behind them till you got approval. Like I said, it's a 'new' problem and will go away as you learn to trust your own reads more, but this is, at its core, a game of intuition and logic, and those are inherent human traits. You have the skills - learn to believe that you do and you'll be a much stronger player. Other than that I have no strong advice, I think that's all you really need, as your posting frequency and legibility were fine, and you had a functional scumhunting method to what you were doing.
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