Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[MontyWhittaker]

Thor, I don't like your play at this point. You encourage us not to vote randomly, yet vote Sakura with no explanation? Why is that?

[MontyWhittaker]

Sorry, I feel so overwhelmed right now. I haven't posted because I either haven't had anything to add or it's already been posted by someone. For what it's worth, with so many votes in this game already, I feel like The Irish Pope has "suspicions" that he is leading people to vote toward, yet feels no conviction to vote for them himself. That is enough to warrant my vote:

VOTE: TheIrishPope

[MontyWhittaker]

Sorry, I feel so overwhelmed right now. I haven't posted because I either haven't had anything to add or it's already been posted by someone. For what it's worth, with so many votes in this game already, I feel like The Irish Pope has "suspicions" that he is leading people to vote toward, yet feels no conviction to vote for them himself. That is enough to warrant my vote:

VOTE: TheIrishPope

So you appear out of nowhere and suddenly join a BW.

FoS: MontyWhittaker

I stated why I made my vote. I did not place it on someone who I felt did not deserve it, nor was I untrue in what I said. The simple fact of the matter is, unless we, as a group, decided that we wanted to No Lynch on this first day, we do have to choose someone to eliminate. I have to base my decision on the fact that TheIrishPope is sowing seeds of dissension, yet does not want to validate those concerns with a vote. I believe that he does not want a recorded vote that would pin him as scum later, which is why I am doing it now.

[MontyWhittaker]

Indeed you do. Quite astute of you. Shawn, I am troubled by your consistent movement only because it doesn't seem motivated by a town-based interest. You are flighty, much as though you were attempting to spread as much confusion as possible. Just so we are clear, what are your feelings about people at this point in the game, and how have they changed as the game has progressed?

[MontyWhittaker]

You guys know what? I have been looking at Monty recently and guess what I found? Scum.
Let me tell you why.

1. He is the lurkiest dude in this game and lurking is a scumtell. Whats more is that with his low number of posts, 4, he hasnt advanced any read but posted the blendiest stuff imaginable. He asks questions he never follows up upon, all his posts are strictly in line with town sentiment.

2.

Sorry, I feel so overwhelmed right now. I haven't posted because I either haven't had anything to add or it's already been posted by someone. For what it's worth, with so many votes in this game already, I feel like The Irish Pope has "suspicions" that he is leading people to vote toward, yet feels no conviction to vote for them himself. That is enough to warrant my vote:
VOTE: TheIrishPope

Lets look at this post. It seems like monty is overwhelmed with the game. However apparently he has read enough to determine that by Irish Pope's posts, that Irish is trying to mislead town. This is quite a deep conclusion I think, and not one I expect from someone who is 'overwhelmed'. Also this conclusion is wrong, and if he actually read the thread enough to determine such a deep conclusion, he should know that Irish has no pull with anyone and obviously cant 'lead people to vote'.

3.

Indeed you do. Quite astute of you. Shawn, I am troubled by your consistent movement only because it doesn't seem motivated by a town-based interest. You are flighty, much as though you were attempting to spread as much confusion as possible. Just so we are clear, what are your feelings about people at this point in the game, and how have they changed as the game has progressed?

This post comes at a time where I am under heavy pressure, and is a summary of the some of the stuff that has been leveled at me. He then asks the most general question I have ever seen and I dont remember responding to it and he never follows it up with anything. He is trying to blend in with the town by being suspicious of me as it was the hot topic, possibly thinking of a way to get his vote on to me.

Monty is scum in this town because he has offered no new insights, has tried to get on townie bandwagons, me and Irish and is lurking the fuck out of this game cause he has been under NO PRESSURE. Lets start with this.
UNVOTE: Thor
VOTE: MontyWhittaker

1. How does one "advance a read". This is a game of logic, not popularity. A lot of things people say in this thread make sense, but the fact is that only six of us, at most, are correct. Choosing to "advance" someone that I am not fairly certain is correct does nothing to help anyone.

2. It's not that "deep" of a conclusion. It's a fact. He shifts votes, or at least had been at the time of my post. However, since then, he has made some observations that I have found interesting to say the least. With that slight justification, I will

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope.

Secondly, you contradict yourself in your read of me. You say that I make deep conclusions, but go on to say that they are wrong, and I am obviously not paying attention to the thread. Think about this with me: you accuse me of actually reading more than I am letting on and not reading the thread well at all with the same post.

3. You are correct that you never responded to the question, and I am amazed that you are brazen enough to continue not answering. My only assumption can be that you were hoping that I would not follow up with the question, which obviously makes me question why you would want that.

My suspicions are still strongly on you in jumping, and the only reason you aren't getting a vote from me now is that I don't wish to quickhammer until I am more certain.

[MontyWhittaker]

I was asking you in an attempt to gauge how you were feeling at the time, as your consistent accusations were yielding no clues as to your motive. I would still appreciate an answer to that question...

Sakura, there were two reasons. The first is that I am still trying to get engaged in this game. I have trouble responding if I don't have something very specific in my mind to warrant a response. The second is that there was no need at that point to keep a vote on TheIrishPope. While he has by no means completely validated his innocence, neither has he done enough to continue warranting my suspicions of him as scum.

PEdit: Shawn, you say there are no disadvantages to claiming Vanilla Town. However, that does nothing to refute what Sakura said. Is there a reason for you making that claim in light of Sakura's statement, or do you simply have to find something to disagree with in everything people say?

[MontyWhittaker]

It was a generic question to match your generic gameplay. It's hard to ask you a specific question, at least at that point, because you had made accusations toward a majority of the players in the game! Your persistent and not very effective defense has now made me wish to level an intent to hammer. I want to know exactly where you stand right now about people in the game.

I am also trying to figure out why you didn't acknowledge the other question I gave you regarding Sakura's post. You're not doing yourself any favors by your brute resistance in some areas, and utter silence in others.

[MontyWhittaker]

So, let's play a fun game while we wait. Let's say that Shawn's claim convinces you unequivocally that he is town. Who do you cast your suspicions on next? This question is for the group, no need for so many hands to go up at once...

[MontyWhittaker]

Irish has pretty much won his way back into my good graces, but I am looking a bit more closely at Thor and Nekoko. Both for different reasons, obviously. Thor has made some intriguing plays when I look back at some of his previous games, and Nekoko has done a fantastic job of blending in and looking townish, which is the kind of people I hate.

PEdit: Now, now, TIP, we're just having a little fun, throwing out some names...no need to be so defensive.

[MontyWhittaker]

Well, to answer your question, Shawn, the reason my vote is not on Monty is that my goal is to play to support my win condition. No matter what, a self-vote will not help in accomplishing that.

TIP, what do you mean, "do the ends justify the means"? What ends do you specifically object to?

[MontyWhittaker]

Because you have a strange, largely unnatural desire to see your posts picked to pieces, instead of simply being responded to in the portions that appear relevant, I will oblige you.

I think that all of you should stop putting bad ideas in the thread. tsk. Policy lynching a Vanilla townie is the absoultely worse thing you can do. Thats what you are proposing right? That you dont really think I will flip scum but because of certain interactions that are invalid cause im town, you wanna lynch me? Comment on Monty and why your vote is not on him, GOOO

Policy lynching a

claimed

Vanilla Townie is certainly not the absolute worst thing you can do. As we have no evidence to support your roleclaim, and a significant amount of suspicion that supports the supposition that you are blatantly lying about your role, and lying is something you have already proven you are readily willing to do in this game, a vote for you looks significantly better than a no lynch, which probably

would

be a poor move in this first day.

I, for one, would not have placed my FoS on you if I did not believe that you were false in saying that you are Town. My assumption is not that you are Town and that we can get info from your lynch, but that you are scum, and that lynching you is something I am intended to do as a member of the town.

PEdit: I'm sorry, I believe a term used to describe me to help scumreads against me was "blendy", is that right? So you are now attacking my read on Nekoko for using the same logic that you yourself used? At least you're staying consistent with my read toward you...

[MontyWhittaker]

What do you feel about lurky blendy monty?

Just for your reference, in case you forgot.

[MontyWhittaker]

Shawn, I would like a little clarification. Why is my acting like town (blendy) any different than Nekoko, and how does it make me scum and Nekoko not?

I agree that nothing should be in a bubble, so expand it for me. Tell me why my "blendyness" is different than or worse than Nekoko's.

The switch on Irish was based primarily on two things. The first is that my suspicion toward you had been growing, and had surpassed that toward TIP about a page before I made my post.

You get quite angry when someone doesn't read your reads, yet have no problem not reading mine against yours. To summarize, you have consistently shifted gears in a failed attempt of what I presume to be scum spreading lies, hoping these seeds of deceit will sprout in later rounds.

I do have a question for you that's a bit more specific. You have talked a lot about those you consider scum for various reasons. I assume that your viewpoints have changed since those first few pages, so I am wondering about your townreads.

[MontyWhittaker]

Neko seemed odd because of the reasons I stated. Posting and disappearing, and trying to control people's decisions.

You won't be catching scum if your suspects are based on their posting activities not on the actual content.
And trying to control people's decisions isn't a scum-tell especially if you want to change a person's decision for something good.
I don't even recall controlling someone's decision. If it's about you casting your vote, then you should get used to it.

Nekoko could be setting herself up to look scummy and get lynched. The other Mafia would hop on the BW, blending in and exterminating Town one by one. Just an idea of mine.

If the mafia would like to lose then yeah they should sacrifice their partner on D1.

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope
VOTE: Shawn

Shawn is scummy. Shawn is scummy.
His sudden outburst after people voted commandodude is very much suspicious.
It's also interesting that he said commandodude's name at the start of the game
and that he avoided Sakura Hana's question for a bit at the start of the game
concerning commandodude.

Does what i state on the first post have to be important?

I would think that whatever you write in your first post is reasonably important to you, yes.

So how many games have you played blah blah?

And this is coming from Shawn. There must be reasonably important in posting commandodude's name.

I'll be voting Shawn first in the off-chance that commandodude is town.
Shawn could also be defending a scummy town to get town cred in the next day

This was the first of the red flags I saw for Neko. Nekoko did the exact same thing I did as far as joining an existing bandwagon. Yet you, Shawn, attack me for actions such as these and not someone doing the same thing. You're looking worse and worse...

At this point, I do intend to hammer you within the next four hours, just letting you know.

[MontyWhittaker]

I called the monty hammer btw.
Scum going all in and trying to shut me up.

Difference for Neko, she gave good reasoning. You didnt. Game over.

Yet you can't be bothered to explain beyond that...you don't think I gave good reasoning, and you completely agree with Neko's. I can't justify right now you're being town.

VOTE: Shawn

[MontyWhittaker]

Also anyone one notice how Monty's hammer is post 666?

It was particularly ominous...

[MontyWhittaker]

Well, to be honest, now that the hammer has been placed, there is no need for him to continue giving insights were he scum. I am afraid that a mistake was made...

[MontyWhittaker]

I thought I had this one as well.

[MontyWhittaker]

Looking solely at votecount, you're intriguing, Sahura, in that you were attacking Shawn and didn't vote for him.

Thor and MM seem like good targets for an NK solely because of their experience. In games I have played on other sites, it has been a given that the older users go first. But since that doesn't lend itself to a logical gameplay, it could be anyone.

PEdit: I am disbelieving at this point solely because of your surety following a hammer. I wouldn't expect that from a typical scum. If you flip town, it would not surprise me at this point as giving additional info after a hammer is not a scum move. There is no need for you to do it unless you are town.

[MontyWhittaker]

I had stated an intent to hammer before. After that full day, I had concluded what I was looking at. No one else was giving any insight, and there was no need to continue with deliberations.

Just looking at your post confuses me, though. You say that a lot of people wanted Shawn dead and that many were blending in. So how do you jump to commandodude and sycorax, people who did not vote for Shawn, as your next scum targets?

[MontyWhittaker]

Ah, sorry. That was entirely my fault in misreading that. I don't know why we would assume that those not voting Shawn were scum though.

[MontyWhittaker]

In which I examine TIP's ISO in an attempt to figure out his motives and such

This is my first game too, I will also need help from the IC.

Right off the bat, you post quite needily. For someone who has made such a stink about not being called a newb, this is an interesting move.

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

I will come back to this, but keep it in your mind.

Who would you say is the most scummiest? (This question goes for everyone.)

Besides your frightful grammar in this post, I wonder at the utter uselessness of this question. People have been theoretically telling you and everyone else in the thread who they consider the most scummy. Why not just ask those you want more information from...

D1 Lynch: Commandodude
D2 Lynch: Shawn

Ooh. Great ideas. Neither one of which do you follow up on, by the way.

So, if I am acting town, I should be lynched? According to you, I express this sentiment in all of my posts. Please, go ahead and quote them all. I'll wait.
My motive is the same. I want to eradicate scum.

Remember that post earlier where Irish said that acting town is a scumtell? Notice how he changes his tune when he is the one being attacked for the same reason.

Posting from my phone, I agree with your logic.
UNVOTE: Commandodude
VOTE: Shawn

L-1. Gonna fakeclaim a PR, Shawny boy?

First off, it is good to realize that posting from your phone somehow gives you a different outlook on life.

Well, it would seem to me we are at a crossroads. I will stay neutral for a while, given I have voted for the most obvious scum and people still see me as scum.
Also, if we do lynch Shawn and he flips town, remember I voted for Commandodude, and don't make up things.

UNVOTE: Shawn

Ooh...look at the scum trying to cover himself. Isn't that cute? Don't worry, TIP, nothing is being made up.

Shawn and Sakura now love each other. And share the same word, fascinating. Interesting. I thought scum didn't have daytalk
Sakura, what would you consider contribution? Everyone is claiming Town, that's the point of the game, so I don't see what's weird about me stating it.
Shawn, I am not saying you are scum. That's why I put a percentage. I am saying you look like scum, you act like scum, but I am open to different options.

Sorry, just referencing that same post we looked at earlier. Does he look like town or scum, make up your mind...Fortunately, we have a percentage...nice. Now we know that a completely arbitrary number you just made up is one of the sole bases you are using to make your vote.

Me: If someone claims VT, we should lynch him. If he is scum, perfect! If he is town, no PRs were lost and we gain more information on either case. <----- I read this somewhere (probably the wiki) but I can't find it now.

Yeah, let's lynch all the Vanilla Townies. That will lead to an instant town win. #scumtell

Of course I will be suspicious if someone hammers without a good case. Everyone who has voted for Shawn has expressed their case completely and thoroughly, so it would be weird if the last vote came rapidly and without a base.

See, but the difference is, a good case had been established, and a base was put forth by the hammering vote, so what you are saying holds little water.

Crap, my strongest town read was on Sakura.
Marangal and Monty are my strongest scum reads. Monty lurks way too much and is not really contributing to the game... I want to see more posts, more actions.
VOTE: MontyWhittaker

Anyone can claim townreads after the fact...

My playstyle is my own, and I believe you will find that it is consistent. I do not have the abundant time the rest of you have. I have a full high school course load, two jobs, and some college work. If my posting quantity doesn't meet your expectations, I apologize, TheIrishScum.

With that established,

VOTE: TheIrishPope

[MontyWhittaker]

Hmmm...did not mean to format it like that. I thought

would put it into a nice box, not black it out like that. Forgive me that, if you would.

[MontyWhittaker]

OMGUS much?
If you had limited time, you shouldn't have singed up for a game in which you need dedication.
Scum motivation behind any and all actions?

As I said, my playstyle is my own. Just because I am not posting in the quantities that you would prefer does not imply a scum or town specific alignment.

Clarify your final question, if you would. Are you asking if there is scum motivation behind all my actions or yours?

[MontyWhittaker]

Okay so this post, this post, and this post

really really suck.

Looks like noobscum play to me. The whole 'not reading the thread' is a playstyle tell though, not indicative of alignment. So that makes Commando and Marangal my top suspects.

Just so I can know for the future, how do these posts appear as "noobscum play"? The last one you indicated, in particular, was not based on anything but a person's ISO coupled with the overall game. What do you look for when attempting to locate scum?

[MontyWhittaker]

as for my read on Monty isn't an easy one to explain. He isn't particularly doing bad play, I think he's actually doing fairly decent however posts like 586, 590, and 607 rub me the wrong way

If you could elaborate a little, that would be cool. If you can't explain the read, it would probably be a fantastic idea to not voice it without backing it up. Those posts specifically I can't see anything wrong with, though I am of course biased. What do you think about Irishscum?

[MontyWhittaker]

Sorry, that's for you, MM. Didn't format right.

[MontyWhittaker]

TL;DR: sycorax, Nekoko, Commandodude, Thor, Marangal, Monty -- from towniest to scummiest

So what changed, Irish? Besides saying that Nekoko "fucked up" a specific post, do you have anything legitimate to add to the conversation besides switching your vote from the person you say is scummiest to a person quite close to "towniest" on your list?

[MontyWhittaker]

You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...

[MontyWhittaker]

Regfan, your reads are interesting in light of your replacement. I had previously been fairly confident with a Commandodude town, and your replacement only serves to affirm that belief. Since you are calling for a claim of the power roles, I can only assume that you are not one. Assuming a Ms. Marangal/Nekoko scumteam, that means that IrishPope, Thor, or Mathdino would comprise the other roles.

So you are advocating a claim right now, correct?

[MontyWhittaker]

No, from what I am seeing, the talk is more about lynching you because the assumption is that you are lying. That, at least, is where I am falling in the discussion thus far, and that will help to keep my vote firmly where it is.

[MontyWhittaker]

About being a Vanilla Townie. My assumption would be that the reason you have votes on you is that people believe that you are scum more than they believe your assertion that you are a Vanilla Townie...Of course, there aren't that many votes on you...

We do need to come to a consensus soon, if possible. We have just a day left.

[MontyWhittaker]

what are you talking about? TIP is at L-1

My apologies, Ms. Marangal, I didn't see your post. With that said, are you suspecting any kind of team with Irish?

[MontyWhittaker]

Uh? Thor and Monty have been online and posted elswhere during the night-phase (Just checked) meaning how would they forgot to send in a kill? This is really weird.

Sorry, but can someone explain again the benefits of not lynching?

[MontyWhittaker]

Ah, I see.

VOTE: No Lynch

[MontyWhittaker]

Unvote

There's something I want explained first, noticed this when I was doing some reading; Monty in Post 590 which is at the end of D1 you state that Irish has 'won back into your good graces' and that you want to look more closely at Thor and Nekoko yet in Post 716 which is first post of D2 you come out with a case against Irish in so what initially brought about the change of read towards him moving back into your good graces and what brought about the change back to a FoS on him? And did you ever go to look more closely at Thor/Nekoko (Try and run me through your actions and thought process at the start of D2 please).

Yeah, certainly. Shawn's flip made me have to go back and reevaluate everyone. It was that simple.

I did, but at the time, there wasn't much to say. It was hard to determine a town/scum alignment either way. After tomorrow's actions, it should be simple to ascertain, but right now, I simply want to see what happens.

[MontyWhittaker]

Well, since Regfan and awestfie are Town, it's down to Ms. Marangal and Thor, unless I missed something.

Was MM investigated by Nekoko?

I'll begin an ISO of Thor tomorrow evening, when I will be home. For now, assuming that Reg, awestfie, and MM are conftown, I will

VOTE: Thor

[MontyWhittaker]

Sorry, I misread Regfan's post. Give me a little time in about twelve hours to look at the thread again.

[MontyWhittaker]

All right, I am completely and utterly exhausted from that trip. I will make a post tomorrow, I promise.

[MontyWhittaker]

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

"Shawn doesn't look like scum.
Ergo - Shawn is scum."

Unvote: Sakura Hana
Vote: IrishPope

All right, this seems legit. These first few posts all seem good, but...

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.

I would like an explanation of this assumption, if you don't mind.

You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...

That sorta makes me want to call him town, frankly - he's being almost silly antagonistic.

And that ends all of the hypothesizing regarding Thor. I'm hesitant to call him scum with just this. Give me a second to look at Regfan.

Oh, and Thor, the main reason for that error was that I was trying to dash something off before we left.

[MontyWhittaker]

All right, so Commandodude, the slot that Regfan replaced into, never said anything whatsoever to or about Irish. Is that simply an oversight or scum not looking at scumbuddy?

[MontyWhittaker]

Regfan, I really don't like any of your interaction with Irish whatsoever. Yours or the slot you replaced into, for that matter. Between you and Thor, my vote has to be

VOTE: Regfan

[MontyWhittaker]

I read into Montys meta what feels like a few weeks ago and I was hoping he'd have more completed games by now but he doesn't. I did notice a few things though going back over his meta; he only has two completed games, Robos PYP (Where he was replaced by DV) but he only had 6 posts inside that game and Newbie 1264 where he was mafia and lynched D2 and here's the Mafia QT where he only posted one time during N1 so him being forgetful to send in a night-kill is more likely than Thor forgetting. His Post 180 in that game looks very similar to his Post 241 in this game too.

So yeah, leaning towards Monty!Scum but still want one more re-read.

And both of those games are a full year ago, Reg. This is a new, improved Monty. To be honest, I would be so bold as to say that meta can not apply in this case. I mean, you can use it as a reference, but is it going to be useful? Not until these first few "new" games are completed.

The problem is that I was completely active during this time. Had the lack of a kill occurred next week, when I really will be away almost the whole time, I might have understood, but I don't see how that would have happened to anyone. And I know it didn't to me.

[MontyWhittaker]

This makes no sense whatsoever given that you claim to have a strong town-read on Commando and a stronger town-read on me in Post 818 combined with the fact that Commandodude mentioned nearly no one in the game given he was nearly never here and the fact that Irish actually attempted to mslynch Commando when he did arrive - You're ignoring a whole other street of interactions there.

And I actually attempted to lynch Irish toward the start of Day 2. I also notice how you are the ever-so-reluctant hammer there.

You see, the problem with your claim of Irish and me collaborating for me to bus him is that there were several times in the day that the tide of public opinion were shifting. It would have been easy, what with you making it possible and all, to shift to a Nekoko wagon. Staying on Irish was not an "easy" choice for town.

I can't see a Thor/Irish scumteam, but I can sure as hell see a Reg/Irish. Look at just this recent post..."Irish attempted to mslynch Commando". Since your first post, you have been trying to nullify the possibility that you are scum with the wording you've chosen, it seems that you've found a way to include yourself with the Town group in each and every post. My vote is staying where it is.

PEdit: There's your response.

[MontyWhittaker]

Looking at the No Kill by the scum, it's interesting to note that while, yes, both Irish and I were posting in the interim of that night, you were not. You have zero posts in any games, any content whatsoever on the site until the No Kill is revealed the next day.

[MontyWhittaker]

Wow you're dumb.

vote; nekoko

Thought that was the case too.

And I actually attempted to lynch Irish toward the start of Day 2. I also notice how you are the ever-so-reluctant hammer there. You see, the problem with your claim of Irish and me collaborating for me to bus him is that there were several times in the day that the tide of public opinion were shifting. It would have been easy, what with you making it possible and all, to shift to a Nekoko wagon. Staying on Irish was not an "easy" choice for town.

I was reluctant because I didn't see Nekoko / Irish working as a scum-team and I had a scum-read on Nekoko and was paranoid of her claim;

that said I wasn't likely to actually throw down a vote on Nekoko and there was near no chance that she would have ended up getting lynched

ie. Irish was always going to get lynched

I can't see a Thor/Irish scumteam, but I can sure as hell see a Reg/Irish. Look at just this recent post..."Irish attempted to mslynch Commando". Since your first post, you have been trying to nullify the possibility that you are scum with the wording you've chosen, it seems that you've found a way to include yourself with the Town group in each and every post. My vote is staying where it is.

You've ignored a lot of interactions and are attempting to pretend they're not there; you've ignored anything from Irish towards Commando and here you're attempting to de-credit the point by saying "You're bringing it up to prove you're not scum!" which of course I'm doing, given Commandos posts, Irishs push on Commando as well as my own play and meta it should be blindingly obvious that I'm town (I think Awetsfie knows it too and the sad thing is I think she's attempting to troll the game by not saying it out loud), that combined with something else is really really irritating me right now.

Wrong wording, Regfan. I was referring to your use of the word "mislynch". Ingratiating yourself into the Town with carefully crafted choices like that since you came is more precisely what I am referring to.

[MontyWhittaker]

This is the only game I'm in and I generally don't post anywhere on the site other than in games. I only play 1-2 games at a time so I can give the games 100% of my effort which involves checking on the game every few hours (Even during the night-phase; I constantly check to see when the nights ending and I check up on a few other games I'm following alongside it). Heck, the fact that I was the one to hammer ie. Last online before night-started and first to post when day started, heck the fact that I posted 6 minutes after day started should be enough proof that I was constantly checking on the thread and am town.

Lucky scum isn't any less scum. It's equally likely that you had gotten on to post the kill, which you had forgotten. Then, you scramble and make the first post on that day marking your incredulity at scum not making a kill.

[MontyWhittaker]

No, as I stated, I am saying that you had gotten on to send the kill, but realized that the mod had already posted a No-Kill.

[MontyWhittaker]

Hey Regfan, if Nekoko is indeed cop, who's mafia and why?

That's something I'm trying to work out (I have town-reads on the both of Thor/Monty and am still finding it hard believing that scum forgot to send in a kill when both of them were posting elsewhere online at the time) but I don't want to waste too much time since if Nekoko is mafia then we'll know it by tomorrow.

Yes, that is actually exactly what I am saying. Per your own reads, since we were both posting elsewhere, and you were obviously not, there is more reasonable proof for your simply waiting. Real life stuff comes up all the time, and you just missed the deadline to submit your kill. That has to be my assumption at this point.

[MontyWhittaker]

To add to that you're saying I randomly checked the thread at 3;30am (That's the time day started for me).

Well, the fact is that you did, I don't think anyone is contesting that. The time you choose to get on is your business.

And I do apologize, that was an error on my part not noting the day that you voted Nekoko.

[MontyWhittaker]

So lets get this completely 100% right because I'm struggling to see how you can believe what you're saying here for half a second; you're stating that I'm scum that forgot the game but decided to randomly check it at 3;30am my time rather than the case that I'm town, was checking the thread constantly every few hours and thus came online exactly when day started.

Look at it from my perspective. To me, of course, I am mod-confirmed town. So, with awestfie and Ms Marangal also confirmed town by Nekoko, that leaves you and Thor. I can't see a Thor/Irish scumteam unless I am missing something totally blatant right now. (And if they were, that was some great play on Thor's part) So, if I am looking at you as scum, Reg, my assumption has to be that you either forgot to make a kill, or that you chose not to.

Hypothetical situation: You orchestrated yesterday's events fairly well, giving you a chance to kill Nekoko last night, and since you had already made a no-kill, whether it was purposeful or accidental, you are able to use that to attack a Town member, make a lynch, and set yourself up to make a kill tonight of a Cop-confirmed town, then convince the other one to lynch Thor tomorrow.

[MontyWhittaker]

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

"Shawn doesn't look like scum.
Ergo - Shawn is scum."

Unvote: Sakura Hana
Vote: IrishPope

All right, this seems legit. These first few posts all seem good, but...

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.

I would like an explanation of this assumption, if you don't mind.

You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...

That sorta makes me want to call him town, frankly - he's being almost silly antagonistic.

And that ends all of the hypothesizing regarding Thor. I'm hesitant to call him scum with just this. Give me a second to look at Regfan.

Oh, and Thor, the main reason for that error was that I was trying to dash something off before we left.

This was the post I made regarding Irish. It's all I saw with his Irish interactions. It could possibly be scum consciously avoiding his scumbuddy, but it might not. The hardest part in justifying a Thor scumread is still that pesky No Kill...

Reg, all I saw with commandodude was what appeared to be a deliberate choice to not mention Irish whatsoever.

Awestfie, what are you thinking?

[MontyWhittaker]

My comment underneath that particular post was asking Thor to state why he made that assumption. I am trying to see where he was coming from.

Regfan, why is that particular post town?

I wouldn't want to fall into making the assumption that any one person is town at this point. For now, it's a waiting game until Thor gets on.

The good thing is that all of the nonconfirmed town votes are accounted for, so there's no possibility of a scum quicklynch so long as the confirmed withhold judgment for now.

[MontyWhittaker]

The three most relevant posts from Irish's ISO are here, I believe.

Spoiler:

http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/129 ... ation/2220

Starts at reply 2226
Check backwards and forward because I have another game done as well and a current one (where my role cannot be disclosed)
I know everyone is checking it right now

You really surprised me with this very elegantly orchestrated post, and the follow up scum one, and I might have to say I disagree just a tad on Monty. I am not completely sure, but something is off about him.
Will you vote, or will you develop reads first?

This post intrigued me. You see, it came right after you posted, Reg, and he disagrees with your townread of me. It wasn't indicative of alignment, but I did find it interesting.

Crap, my strongest town read was on Sakura.
sycorax and Nekoko seem cleared to me. sycorax is actively scumhunting and contributing immensely to the game. She also looks for doubtful posts and gives insight to the thread overall. Nekoko is playing aggressively, which might be the push we need for the real scum to come out. However, her lack of posts does trouble me. Nekoko, you are about 70% town, so don't screw with my trust.
Marangal and Monty are my strongest scum reads. Monty lurks way too much and is not really contributing to the game... I want to see more posts, more actions. Marangal uses sarcasm to deviate attention away from herself, and writes a lot but is known for hopping into BWs, presumably to blend in. She mainly asks questions, but only contributes occasionally in the game. They are both people I want to look further into.
Thor is null-scum to me, because he pushed Shawn who

conveniently

flipped VT, and uses MM's sarcasm bit. PEdit: and he votes for me on accounts of "Meh."
Commandodude was defended by Shawn, but Shawn flipped town so I'm letting him be.

TL;DR: sycorax, Nekoko, Commandodude, Thor, Marangal, Monty -- from towniest to scummiest
VOTE: MontyWhittaker

He ranks Commando and Thor both in the middle, no help there.

Interesting question indeed. If he

(Shawn)

is town, Commandodude is most certainly town as well, and I would be lost. Possible: Thor, Nekoko, Sycorax, in no particular order.

(Bolded part mine) That was an interesting assumption.

Ok, Reg, that vote by Irish on Commando early on, I can see it as a possible town tell. The fact is that Commando wasn't doing anything with the game, and certainly wouldn't have coached Irish to do that. I can see Thor coaching him via nighttalk to make the vague assumptions which he made. I'm a little more confident with a Thorscum with that. The main thing clearing you right now, Reg, is that you

did

replace into the game, and I can't buy a relationship between Commando and Irish with what I'm seeing from Irish's posts.

[MontyWhittaker]

Things just didn't go my way; anyways, you're sure on

Thor

Monty being scum, yeah?

No, I'm not sure - if I was I'd have voted but I do lean that way; I think interaction-wise he fits better, I think in likelihood of forgetting to submit a kill he fits better and I think his push on me here is contrived as fuck - the fact that he's literally stating he believes I'd have to randomly check the thread at 3;30am my time is such a stretch that I think Town!Monty would have stepped back and realized he was wrong there.

I'm going to be honest, that isn't something I should have pursued as far as I did. But I had a cool hypothetical situation and everything!

My problem was really that I tunneled you, and that was an error on my part. I was focusing on what I saw at the time, and ended up making some completely baseless assumptions.

[MontyWhittaker]

Well, what I saw was that he ended up mentioning everyone, but I was just ISOing him. In his posts, he never referenced Irish directly to my knowledge. I didn't make the decision to look at Irish's post about Commando because I was thinking that the Commando-Irish connection was damning enough, and that nothing would be revealed with a Irish-Commando look. Was it the right thing to do? No.

Nothing was gained from those reads, they were null. I thought I had posted that, sorry. All I can say is that it was a lynch attempt, not a bus. My interactions with Irish were always genuine, and he had marked me as his main scum read for a significant portion of the game.

[MontyWhittaker]

Awestfie, what kind of tell is it if scum points out another person as scum? I'm asking seeking to know, not to prove a point. Is it a town, scum, or nulltell?

[MontyWhittaker]

And with that, I am gone. I will see you all a little later today.