Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Nekoko]

I see there was a confusion when thor first posted.
I think it's because of this which came from a template
introduction post for ICs.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage).

---

Caught up.

VOTE: Shawn

atm shawn looks like scum trying to look super townie. Calling scum because a new player says they are new etc.?

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

Finding TheIrishPope's post suspicious. His reason for suspecting Shawn looks the same as sycorax's reason
for voting him but the difference is that TIP didn't vote Shawn and his reason is weaker.

Sakura, the person who votes first is generally scum. So I do believe he is most likely mafia.

Where did you get this idea (from epic mafia perhaps?)
I think in all of my games I played, people who vote first are not mafia.
It's basically a null tell because either town or mafia will do it.

Again: I want to hear from everyone first.

Why do you need to hear from everyone before you cast your vote?
If you think someone is scummy, vote for him.
You don't need to know whether people will agree with you or not
because it will look you are a cautious scum.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

---

Also I feel SH is slight town for now. I don't think a first time scum player
can post as active and as spontaneous as she is.

Also I find Shawn suspicious although he looks like an aggressive reckless newb town

---

Oh and hi VI Marangal

[Nekoko]

WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me) logic. Scum try very hard to look innocent, and to me, Shawn goes a tad overboard with it.
Sakura, please give me an explanation as to why you defend Shawn, given he is acting scummy.

Then vote for Shawn now

I am not waiting for people to agree with me. I want them to talk to develop reads on them. If I vote people who are active, there is a greater chance I hit town, and you all look town at the moment. I choose not to vote at the moment because I don't want to hurt Town.

So Shawn in fact looks town to you? I thought you suspect him

Nekoko, why do you defend sycorax?

Is quoting sycorax's post to show that your reason for "suspecting" Shawn looks the same is called defending?

Also, something that was on my mind a while ago: Why did MontyWhittaker post once, only to leave?

Directing away attention to someone especially if it's just about someone's activeness is suspicious

[Nekoko]

@Nekoko - your read on MM please.

MM looks suspicious

If I was defending anyone, it was Syncorax, not Nekoko.

Irish is a tempting person to vote, though I will hold mine until everyone has at least posted something. He can easily be super nervous townie, or super nervous scum based on what he has posted so far

@ Irish, I do not have any scum-spects thus far.

as for why I was defending her, She also gives me some town vibes so I feel inclined to protect who I perceive to be town.

I don't know if this is a slip or not. Normally people don't use "her" or "she" to address people.
Syncorax hasn't yet said whether he's a he or a she. If MM was referring to me, this is also suspicious because I haven't posted yet.

Also she looks too "friendly" or something in this game as if she doesn't want to make enemies.

[Nekoko]

He looks like scum. It does NOT follow that I am obligated to vote for him. I am not directing attention away from me, I am just trying to weed out scum in an attempt to, you know, WIN the game.

I don't see how not voting for your main suspect would help in weeding out scum.
You'd get more information by pressuring people with your vote as a vote is a real threat to someone's life.

How am I coming off as "to friendly"?

I go to bed and wake up to activity, I really love this batch

Shawn: Pope and Sakura have a possibility of being scum for throwing out the "I need help"/Noob card so early on in the game and I am suspicious of both however, the likelyhood of both of them being scum is very low. At this point in time, I do not have reliable scum-reads.

Syncorax... You know Mollie? Hmm... I might keep a close eye on you then

Why did you think Sakura is scum Thor? I'm getting a vague town-feel from her.

Irish is a tempting person to vote, though I will hold mine until everyone has at least posted something. He can easily be super nervous townie, or super nervous scum based on what he has posted so far

Too quote a few. Well you will suspect someone and then say maybe you're wrong. You're not going to get enemies with that

I also already stated that I was referring to Syncorax and not you so...

How do you know Syncorax is a she then :O

[Nekoko]

Dunno why I look 'too friendly'. It's an odd thing to say, imv.

I was referring to MM.

[Nekoko]

Neko seemed odd because of the reasons I stated. Posting and disappearing, and trying to control people's decisions.

You won't be catching scum if your suspects are based on their posting activities not on the actual content.
And trying to control people's decisions isn't a scum-tell especially if you want to change a person's decision for something good.
I don't even recall controlling someone's decision. If it's about you casting your vote, then you should get used to it.

Nekoko could be setting herself up to look scummy and get lynched. The other Mafia would hop on the BW, blending in and exterminating Town one by one. Just an idea of mine.

If the mafia would like to lose then yeah they should sacrifice their partner on D1.

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope
VOTE: Shawn

Shawn is scummy. Shawn is scummy.
His sudden outburst after people voted commandodude is very much suspicious.
It's also interesting that he said commandodude's name at the start of the game
and that he avoided Sakura Hana's question for a bit at the start of the game
concerning commandodude.

Does what i state on the first post have to be important?

I would think that whatever you write in your first post is reasonably important to you, yes.

So how many games have you played blah blah?

And this is coming from Shawn. There must be reasonably important in posting commandodude's name.

I'll be voting Shawn first in the off-chance that commandodude is town.
Shawn could also be defending a scummy town to get town cred in the next day

[Nekoko]

It's also not helping that Shawn is anti-town.
He then advocated to lynch MM all of a sudden
and then he switches back to Irish

[Nekoko]

And newbie scum are more likely to slip even at the start of the game
so I think there's a good chance that both of them are scum

[Nekoko]

Yeah Shawn.

[Nekoko]

At this point, no one should vote Shawn
without first stating an intent to hammer

[Nekoko]

I think the focus should be on Monty and Irish, not Commando or Shawn

Can you explain your suspicion on Monty?

[Nekoko]

Shawn shouldn't role claim without someone having an intent to hammer him

[Nekoko]

Well, it would seem to me we are at a crossroads. I will stay neutral for a while, given I have voted for the most obvious scum and people still see me as scum.
Also, if we do lynch Shawn and he flips town, remember I voted for Commandodude, and don't make up things.

UNVOTE: Shawn

I wanted to stay neutral. Like, you know, before Commandodude arrived. And that worked out well, no?
However, I do agree with your logic. Pressure is the basis of Mafia.
VOTE: Shawn

Actually this makes you more suspicious than what have you intended.

Indeed, i'd say Town should be worried about their image, because if the Town sees them as scum, mislynch happens, and considering scum knows who's scum and Town they'll obv. shoot Town during the night, next day Town is 2 heads down, just because one Towny didnt worry about their image.

Town should care more about scum-hunting than their image. In doing so they will indirectly improve their image as town.

@Nekoko: My read on Monty is PoE for the most part. He doesn't have enough posts for me to get a good feel for him, though his posts feel contrived and crowd Followy

He appears to be posting just for the sake of posting but I think Shawn is a better choice today.
Also I see you're still not voting someone. Why is that?

So you're implying Irish is busing?

That is a possibility that's why Shawn > commandodude

Also lol, Shawn telling people they're stupid won't help him convince people

[Nekoko]

Oh sorry, what was the question?

Or you could just check his previous posts

[Nekoko]

Shawn is always defending himself using WIFOM.
He says scum wouldn't care about their image.
So people say he acts scummy or anti-town but he still
continues with it and he still doesn't care.
I think that is very disturbing.

[Nekoko]

Pedit: ok, but what do you think of the other posts? what do you think of my comments on town-shawn?

@ Shawn: you can have a point against Thor but at this point in time, I'm not seeing it. The fact that you admit that you may be tunneling and thus want the opinion of others comforts me greatly. At present though, I think your case on Thor isn't that great, though I don't think Thor's case on you is all that great either. I'm not getting the Thor-town read I have gotten from Thor in other games I had with him so maybe sell me on why Thor is scum?

Is this what you are referring to MM?

[Nekoko]

He admitted he was tunneling after posting this

You guys need to differentiate bad play and scum play. Totally different. IMO, commandodude and mine are bad play(yes im town :O so surprising)

which is another attempt to defend himself using WIFOM, so I found him not credible.

[Nekoko]

Thor. I have been flipflopping on my read on him throughout this game. But now I think that he is firmly scum. Not reading the thread isnt scummy in its own right, but apparently the the most objective scumtell to Thor ever. He never explains why not reading the thread promotes a scum objective. Also he says that I dont care about the lynch and he provides absolutely no proof beyond that. These are his only 2 points. And all he has been doing is, SHAWN SO SCUM LYNCH THIS GUY NOW!!!!!!!!!. He has been tunneling me and is still tunneling me, does he still think anyone else is scum? I have no idea. And thats not a good thing.

You've said he was town at one point but now you find him scum.
I think the gist of why you found him scummy was because you think he was tunneling you
but you also admit that you might be tunneling in Post #317.
Why is thor scummy and you're not

[Nekoko]

Yeah I think there is a disconnect here. He's pulling the bad play card to defend himself
but when he talks, it's as if he knows a lot.

[Nekoko]

@ Nekoko, how is that trying to defend himself using WIFOM? He has a point in, people need to learn how to differentiate between bad play and scum play. too many people in this game is drawing similarities between the two, I don't really think his play is bad but w/e he says go I guess...

He's saying he's doing a bad play therefore he can't be scum. That's how I see it

[Nekoko]

Thor. I have been flipflopping on my read on him throughout this game. But now I think that he is firmly scum. Not reading the thread isnt scummy in its own right, but apparently the the most objective scumtell to Thor ever. He never explains why not reading the thread promotes a scum objective. Also he says that I dont care about the lynch and he provides absolutely no proof beyond that. These are his only 2 points. And all he has been doing is, SHAWN SO SCUM LYNCH THIS GUY NOW!!!!!!!!!. He has been tunneling me and is still tunneling me, does he still think anyone else is scum? I have no idea. And thats not a good thing.

You've said he was town at one point but now you find him scum.
I think the gist of why you found him scummy was because you think he was tunneling you
but you also admit that you might be tunneling in Post #317.
Why is thor scummy and you're not

[Nekoko]

So your vote flip-flopping is part of your grand master plan lol

But you did say in your opinion that you have a bad play in Post #302
Was it just to appease the people?

[Nekoko]

Vote flipflopping is a towntell. Right MM/thor/other dudes?

Flip-flopping in itself is a null tell.
I think the suspicious part is that it looks like you were changing your target out of convenience or something.

[Nekoko]

like you unvoted Irish and then your reason is because he's dumb

[Nekoko]

Thor is scum because he is pushing a bad case on me.

You're saying because thor is an IC, he's scum if he pushed a bad case on you?

[Nekoko]

lol I find it funny that Shawn has completely ignored Thor's posts because he thinks he cannot convince him anymore

Why is he still alive?

[Nekoko]

Also you never told me if you were a he or a she :<[/b]

I'm a cat. That's all you need to know.

The heck was this attack for?

lol at mudslinging

Nekerker. Welcome back.
You think you can get away with two lines? Please, add more to the discussion here. Explain your reasons.

If you haven't read my previous posts before, read it now.

He's being survivalistic now. He has abandoned his vote on Thor because he thinks it's a lost cause.
I think he's now voting Monty because he's an easier target because he was inactive.
I think he has no credibility left to convince me anymore.

Oh and I feel commandodude is probably town so my guess that shawn defended
commandodude for town cred is probably right

And just so you know, you're still not off the hook TIP. After Shawn, you're next in my scum list.

[Nekoko]

That is I think if shawn flips scum, tip is probably too

[Nekoko]

Hey TIP have you played mafia outside mafiascum before?

[Nekoko]

I don't get it TheIrishPope. You were suspecting me the whole time in Day 1 but now you think I'm cleared.

[Nekoko]

Never seen any suspicious post from Thor665. He obviously made a good case against shawn.
His scum hunting looks natural and doesn't look fake so I'm inclined to think he's town.

I actually like her vote on Shawn. It doesn't look suspicious to me. I don't agree with TIP's
claim that MM joined the wagon to blend in or something. Voting for the player she
previously thought was town would actually make her suspicious to other players so she's town.

And commandodude is probably noob town.

So I actually think scum could be here [MontyWhittaker, sycorax, TheIrishPope] by PoE.

TheIrishPope is my top suspect though.

[Nekoko]

Never seen any suspicious post from Thor665. He obviously made a good case against shawn.
His scum hunting looks natural and doesn't look fake so I'm inclined to think he's town.

I actually like her vote on Shawn. It doesn't look suspicious to me. I don't agree with TIP's
claim that MM joined the wagon to blend in or something. Voting for the player she
previously thought was town would actually make her suspicious to other players so she's town.

And commandodude is probably noob town.

So I actually think scum could be here [MontyWhittaker, sycorax, TheIrishPope] by PoE.

TheIrishPope is my top suspect though.

VOTE: Nekoko

VOTE: TheIrishPope

L-1

1. I never changed my read on you. I think you're probably scum.
I didn't forget that you reacted badly when I tried to tell you to vote
your suspect early in the game.

2. I didn't forget that you unvoted when the pressure is on Shawn.
It looks like you were too conscious of your image and you were
afraid because Shawn is town.

3.

So, let's play a fun game while we wait. Let's say that Shawn's claim convinces you unequivocally that he is town. Who do you cast your suspicions on next? This question is for the group, no need for so many hands to go up at once...

Interesting question indeed. If he is town, Commandodude is most certainly town as well, and I would be lost. Possible: Thor, Nekoko, Sycorax, in no particular order.
And you, Monty?

I like how you said earlier in Day 2 that sycorax is confirmed town and
I'm probably town but previously on D1 you said you will suspect the two of us.

4. Not really liking how you base your town or scum read on activity levels.

5. lol @ voting your 70% town read

[Nekoko]

Meh I think I screwed up my first cop game ever...

I'm the town cop. I investigated MM as suggested by thor in Post #452
On day 1 I kind of suspected MM because I think scum would defend a suspicious player
(well I think I did that when I was scum) but she turned up town so whatever.

Never seen any suspicious post from Thor665. He obviously made a good case against shawn.
His scum hunting looks natural and doesn't look fake so I'm

inclined to think

he's town.

I actually like her vote on Shawn. It doesn't look suspicious to me. I don't agree with TIP's
claim that MM joined the wagon to blend in or something. Voting for the player she
previously thought was town would actually make her suspicious to other players so she's town.

And commandodude is

probably

noob town.

I tried to make it somewhat obvious if I was night-killed to check who I investigated.
Note the words inclined and probably are nonexistent in MM's

---

I still think scum should be here [Mathdino/sycorax, TheIrishPope, MontyWhittaker]

I got a feeling TIP is either a doctor or a jailkeeper before Sakura was killed.

Thank you sycorax! I will

protect

everyone, don't worry. Again, this is my first game on MS, but I have played online and in real life.

Also reading the posts from day 1 made me think that a sycorax/mathdino - theirishpope
scum team is possible so that's the reason why I included sycorax to my probable scum list

[Nekoko]

Does explain the bullshit town-read on Ms though

Well I don't know how to do a proper breadcrumb of a cop result to make it more natural

I thought TIP's "Protect" was to do with Sycs saying that 'every town has a pope' in the post beforehand.

The choice is word is peculiar though.

[Nekoko]

I don't really know how you want me to answer those questions... I personally am Wary of the claim and I don't see why he would claim with little pressure placed on him, and more so why he decided to use me as a clear. I'm still reading him as town, though I'm slightly more suspicious of him but at the same time I can't see any scum-motivation behind such claims.

There's 4 days left and I was predicting you and I could be lynched today.

And I'm also claiming now than claiming tomorrow because I feel there's a possibility that I could be night killed
or there is a possibility that if we had a mislynch today and I claim tomorrow, no one would believe me.

[Nekoko]

Ugh. I was going to say "Yeah that sounds like a good idea since Nekokos claim is likely legitimate" but guess what I found: In this scum QT she states "I think the two of us should start breadcrumbing or something, don't you think? For example, I'll breadcrumb as if I'm a cop and you will breadcrumb as if you're the seer."

"It's okay. I didn't breadcrumb too D:" ~ I didn't push through with it though so whatever.

There's no Mafia QT posted for Newbie 1315 where she was also mafia (I'd like to have it if it could be posted though) but the fact that she does consider breadcrumbing as scum means that her claim isn't anywhere near as genuine.

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/aj8LKtBSchi

Hypothetically, if I counterclaim, would that be good for us or not?

Hypothetically, you would be lying if you counterclaimed now

[Nekoko]

awestfie is town

[Nekoko]

Wtf is this awestfie, you can't be the jk, the only explanation I'm seeing is
Tierce gave me the wrong result or you're gambiting. Either way I hate you

[Nekoko]

Anyways, why'd you check me, Nekoko?

I already said before that I suspected the scum team could be TheIrishPope X sycorax/mathdino/awstfie
and I already said scum is most likely in [TheIrishPope, sycorax, MontyWhittaker].

---

I also support no lynching. We'll have odd players again and scum would plan
whether to night kill me (so people who suspected me could find where the scum really is)
or to let me live and risk that I will investigate the real scum and win the game

[Nekoko]

WOOT

[Nekoko]

I was actually considering to investigate Thor in Day 1 but I didn't
because there's a possibility that he will be night killed since he's the IC.

[Nekoko]

Nice avy btw Sakura