Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Ms Marangal]

hmmm...

Hey guys, what's up? I'm one of the two SE's in this game, meaning I have quite a bit of experience around this site and I am able to help out with w/e you guys need, though I am not obligated to do so this game. I will try to answer questions although those should go to our IC first

Shawn, what kind of answer were you expecting from Sakura?

[Ms Marangal]

well... Considering that I don't really have problems with her answer, what constitutes a good answer to you

and right now, I think nothing of them asking the IC for help. Learning how to play is what this game is about, one of them may be scum for trying to play the "this is my first game so help me please" card, but I highly doubt that both of them make up the team.

Why is the first post so important? What makes the first post you make different from any other post that will be made in the game?

[Ms Marangal]

I go to bed and wake up to activity, I really love this batch

I see nothing wrong with throwing out suspicion without placing a vote on anyone.

Shawn: Pope and Sakura have a possibility of being scum for throwing out the "I need help"/Noob card so early on in the game and I am suspicious of both however, the likelyhood of both of them being scum is very low. At this point in time, I do not have reliable scum-reads.

Where has Thor lied? I don't see a instance where Thor has lied (Unless you are talking about his IC Intro, I passed over that) he hasn't lied.

Syncorax... You know Mollie? Hmm... I might keep a close eye on you then

Why did you think Sakura is scum Thor? I'm getting a vague town-feel from her.

Pedit: Not everyone is attentive to their games as everyone likes. People sign up, and then RL Gets in the way, SE's also wait for quite some time to get into a game so I wouldn't be surprised if Nekoko isn't able to jump into the game right away.

[Ms Marangal]

Irish, where do you get the impression that the first person to vote is likely scum? Explain that to me. Also, don't play the sympathy card, it's going to further my scum-read on you.

@ Thor: Why not? and I wasn't exactly defending Neko per sey, Just stating to Irish that Leniency this early in the game isn't to bad a thing.

as for why Sakura is town, I get the feeling that she is trying to legitimately scum hunt, and truly doesn't understand where you are coming from, though is trying her hardest to go after her scum reads. I find her reasons and actions to be fairly reasonable for town, and not so much for scum.

[Ms Marangal]

If I was defending anyone, it was Syncorax, not Nekoko.

Irish is a tempting person to vote, though I will hold mine until everyone has at least posted something. He can easily be super nervous townie, or super nervous scum based on what he has posted so far

@ Irish, I do not have any scum-spects thus far.

[Ms Marangal]

as for why I was defending her, She also gives me some town vibes so I feel inclined to protect who I perceive to be town.

[Ms Marangal]

A question for all again (pardon my excessive enquiring):
Lynch All Liars, yay or nay?

Definitely not, for the most part, I do not like any type of Policy lynching. It's a good place to start, however it does not leave room for gambits and false-claims. It does not have it's place here, but elsewhere I wouldn't use it

[Ms Marangal]

What's the scum motivation behind hiding his reasons for his scum reads?

[Ms Marangal]

Uselessness is not a scumtell in the slightest.

first off, Thor is an IC and he's a bold, aggressive player. Him being scared of being pressured on specific points is something I find to be highly unlikely, and I think your scum motivation for him doing what he did to be to specific, and traits that can also be found in town.

TOwn can be scared of being pressured of specific points, and Town can definitely have trouble with explaining their suspicions.

Pedit: Don't like that PL either.

[Ms Marangal]

I did not defend Neko. I did not answer an accusation directed to him.

Not everyone is attentive to their games as everyone likes. People sign up, and then RL Gets in the way, SE's also wait for quite some time to get into a game so I wouldn't be surprised if Nekoko isn't able to jump into the game right away.

This is the post where I "Defend" Nekoko right? Looking at the context of the post, it was a direct answer to Irish, who had asked why Syncorax was being lenient to Nekoko for not yet having a post. I also gave Irish the answer that Syn should have given him, which was probably a mistake but it's still defending Syn.

Irish is murky waters for me. I can see why people want to vote him, he's alluring in terms of vote placement though alot of his thoughts can come from noob town.

Pedit: and that last post just weakened the any scum-read I may have had for him. I don't think he's the best person to vote.

[Ms Marangal]

How am I coming off as "to friendly"?

[Ms Marangal]

I also already stated that I was referring to Syncorax and not you so...

Pedit: this is to Neko

Pedit X2: yes, really

[Ms Marangal]

Maybe both of you could, because I don't see how this is different from my normal play TBQH

[Ms Marangal]

Shawn, it doesnt help the town the fact that you aren't even reading and are just pushing for a Lynch, which could easily lead to Mislynch.
I agree with Thor. You're being way too obvious at this point, and if you flip town then im gonna flip a table.
UNVOTE: IrishPope
VOTE: Shawn

P-Edit: And now you shift your post, somewhere else?

Ok now im 100% sure you're scum!

You're at L-2 now, guess it's time you give some explanations, if you have some.

Don't do this, You're one of my town reads, and a strong one at that, and I want you to stay there

MM: Leaning town, the main argument against him was defending Neko, but i don't really see how Neko being absent until right now is any indication of scumness when the game had only been going for like half a real life day?

I am also a female :/

He looks like scum. It does NOT follow that I am obligated to vote for him. I am not directing attention away from me, I am just trying to weed out scum in an attempt to, you know, WIN the game.

I don't see how not voting for your main suspect would help in weeding out scum.
You'd get more information by pressuring people with your vote as a vote is a real threat to someone's life.

How am I coming off as "to friendly"?

I go to bed and wake up to activity, I really love this batch

Shawn: Pope and Sakura have a possibility of being scum for throwing out the "I need help"/Noob card so early on in the game and I am suspicious of both however, the likelyhood of both of them being scum is very low. At this point in time, I do not have reliable scum-reads.

Syncorax... You know Mollie? Hmm... I might keep a close eye on you then

Why did you think Sakura is scum Thor? I'm getting a vague town-feel from her.

Irish is a tempting person to vote, though I will hold mine until everyone has at least posted something. He can easily be super nervous townie, or super nervous scum based on what he has posted so far

Too quote a few. Well you will suspect someone and then say maybe you're wrong. You're not going to get enemies with that

I also already stated that I was referring to Syncorax and not you so...

How do you know Syncorax is a she then :O

So... I'm coming off as to friendly is based off two of my 13 posts on this page, and also because, in both of those posts I stated how I viewed certain people when asked, and it wasn't as strong as people wanted them to be?

90, I stated that I was suspicious of both Pope and Sakura, but that both of them weren't likely to make the team, since then, Sakura had progressively looked more pro-town so my suspicions on her (which weren't very strong to begin with) disappated, while Pope is still a very probable target.

I followed up on my suspicions of Pope with 127. I stated that he was a tempting vote because I found him suspicious but not as suspicious as Thor found him to be.

Maybe both of you could, because I don't see how this is different from my normal play TBQH

You're defending everybody who so much as posts sideways.

If you mean everyone, you mean Syn, Sakura, and arguably you, then yeah I'm defending everyone in this game

Syn and Sakura I am arguably defending because they are my top town reads, but I'm hardly doing it to the point where they can't do it themselves and the only thing I argued in your respect is the fact that Uselessness isn't a scum-tell. I was also sharing my knowledge that I had about you and how uncharacteristic it is for you to be scared. I don't think that could count as being defensive

also, this "you're so pro-town that you're scummy" non-sense is, IMO weak.

[Ms Marangal]

I will share them once I find them. Right now, everyone is either null-town, or Null, or isn't a strong enough scum-read for me to be comfortable enough to share them.

Mod: V/LA Until Wednesday

[Ms Marangal]

Still V/LA, but I'm amused with what I have read, and I have some questions

Why is Irish being attacked for not voting, yet no one has yet to attack me for doing the exact same thing. I have stated that I see absolutely no problems with holding ones vote in the slightest.

Shawn, Thor is Null, though why did you ask for my read on him specifically?

[Ms Marangal]

I am not on vacation, I just have limited access

Syn, what is the scum motivation behind not placing a vote? (someone had asked that earlier IIRC, I think it was Shawn?) that person

might[/might] be town, based on other stuff that he had posted

[Ms Marangal]

ohmaigod

Don't end the day before I catch my scumspects, please and thank you. We have alot of time, there's no need to rush especially since I don't feel that these wagons are particularly the right ones.

Shawn, I asked you a question. Give me the answer to my question. Why did you ask me for my read on Thor specifically?

Sakura, mistakes =/= scum. Town can make mistakes just as often as scum can, you shouldn't hold a mistake against a person. What you should do though, is watch how they recover from the mistake.

Explain to me how Commando is obvious scum, what is the scum motivation behind those posts of his. Thinking he's scum because of bad play isn't going to get you the result that you want

I think the focus should be on Monty and Irish, not Commando or Shawn

Pedit: I repeat, do not end this day before I Find and lynch us some scum.

[Ms Marangal]

Sakura, Shawn is town. Stop this TvT now.

Thor, the "you're so pro-town that your scum" was me referring to your case on Shawn, not me. I also did not defend Shawn in 209, I never defended Shawn actually. I stated my dislike for his wagon, but I never defended him

that being said,

@ Shawn: you

can

have a point against Thor but at this point in time, I'm not seeing it. The fact that you admit that you may be tunneling and thus want the opinion of others comforts me greatly. At present though, I think your case on Thor isn't that great, though I don't think Thor's case on you is all that great either. I'm not getting the Thor-town read I have gotten from Thor in other games I had with him so maybe sell me on why Thor is scum?

@ Sakura: Commando is irritatingly Anti-town, I can agree with you there but Can town not be doing the same thing he has been doing? furthermore, I think it's great that you think that town

should

care about how they think but I disagree. My reasons for my town read on Commando are pretty similar to Shawn's reasons. I'm inclined to believe that he's trolling town at this point

@Nekoko: My read on Monty is PoE for the most part. He doesn't have enough posts for me to get a good feel for him, though his posts feel contrived and crowd Followy

[Ms Marangal]

Tunneling is focusing on a player to the point where you don't consider that they are of another alignment. It's when you attack someone, and keep attacking them without considering the meaning behind their posts, actions, and that every thing they do is from a "scum perspective"

[Ms Marangal]

Tell me why Shawn is scum.

and I'm not voting because... I'm not ready to place a vote down yet. I have stated many times over in many of my games that I won't probably place a vote until I am sure of a read.

Pedit: ok, but what do you think of the other posts? what do you think of my comments on town-shawn?

[Ms Marangal]

Quite honestly, I have skipped answering question because I have missed it originally, or I don't know what the specific question is or how to answer it. I also don't answer questions that I don't know the answer to. looking at your iso, the more you 1v1 him, the more assumptions you make about him which, IMO is a sign of a tunelling townie.

[Ms Marangal]

You know what? Irish is so dumb he is town.

Shawn making conclusions like this and dropping his reads scarily quick is probably another sign that he is town and not scum. I don't see how "Irish looking dumb" makes him town, he could very well be scum who is looking dumb so people will overlook him.

[Ms Marangal]

Mmm...

that's one of the points, guess I didn't really make a case on town-Shawn.

His reasons for scum reads, and reasons for town reads are somewhat understandable though I don't agree with them. He's also consistent with his strongest read, which is, IMO inherently town. I'm really hard-pressed to find any scum motivations behind his posts.

If he was scum, why would he protect commando dude like that? should he get lynched and end up scum, Shawn would likely be the next target and it would be insta-lose for them if they are the team. Wk'ing scum? sure, that's a possibility though I doubt it, especially with Commando not really being here. Shawn is pretty effectively town

Pedit:

@ Sakura, he's asking questions and attacking his main suspects. He's asking why people think certain things, and his defense of commando could easily be town who doesn't want a town read lynched... or a person who doesn't want a speed lynch to occur, which is probably town motivated.

@ Nekoko, how is that trying to defend himself using WIFOM? He has a point in, people

need

to learn how to differentiate between bad play and scum play. too many people in this game is drawing similarities between the two, I don't really think his play is bad but w/e he says go I guess...

I don't tend to give out my reads unless I am addressing person who I think is scum, or defending person who I think town.

[Ms Marangal]

Thor is scum because he is pushing a bad case on me

This is a really, really bad reason to think someone is scum. I believe I have said as much

[Ms Marangal]

Vote hopping is alignment-Null.

[Ms Marangal]

I think the focus should be on Monty and Irish, not Commando or Shawn

This kinda states that these guys are my scum reads... or the scum reads that matter

[Ms Marangal]

well... considering the fact that your case on him is mostly his play-style, I would say that everything you have on him is pretty off Just as I believe that everything He has on you is pretty off.

[Ms Marangal]

well... considering the fact that your case on him is mostly his play-style, I would say that everything you have on him is pretty off Just as I believe that everything He has on you is pretty off.

Right.
So Irish is scum cause he cares more about appearance and Monty is scum cause he is blendy.
Is that right?

When you put it that way

though really, it's more then that. That's the surface reasoning, though I'm looking deeper into it. It doesn't seem like he wants to attract attention, and it doesn't seem like he's really into this game. The posts he posts are kinda lurkish as well IMO

Irish is troublesome because he essentially mirrors what other people are doing and He is actively lurking for the most part. He has next to no content in the majority of his posts, and I don't see where he "believes" in his play in the way you do.

You know, i'm just going to follow Thor's recommendation and since he's my main suspect atm then i'll vote him.
VOTE: Thor

When did this happen?

[Ms Marangal]

Commandodude's abrupt arrival shocked me, and his next posts merited a vote from me. Shawn defends Commandodude honorably with much confidence, which also made me suspect him.

Scum motivation behind these actions.

[Ms Marangal]

Pathos, Etho's, Logos

Pathos is emotion

Ethos is society/norms

Logos is logic

Pedit: or.. you can explainit.

[Ms Marangal]

Quick note that Appeal to emotion is not a logical fallacy... it's appealing to emotions and is not a scum-tell in the slightest, but more of a personality tell

[Ms Marangal]

Technically speaking, I still am on V/LA though I do now have regular access to my computer.

[Ms Marangal]

It'll peel off automatically, I have it timed for the end of the day.

[Ms Marangal]

Many people also play in multiple games, I am in over 10 games overall. I don't think activity is a problem so far.

[Ms Marangal]

Shawn making conclusions like this and dropping his reads scarily quick is probably another sign that he is town and not scum. I don't see how "Irish looking dumb" makes him town, he could very well be scum who is looking dumb so people will overlook him.

All you are saying here is 'Shawn changes reads faster than I do - that makes him town'
I don't get it.

His changing reads thing strikes me as indecisive town.

His reasons for scum reads, and reasons for town reads are somewhat understandable though I don't agree with them. He's also consistent with his strongest read, which is, IMO inherently town. I'm really hard-pressed to find any scum motivations behind his posts.

Do you find town motivation there?

I obviously do if I don't see any scum motivation

Also, seriously, he is consistently making up things and lying about what people say when he states his reasons for reads on him. Literally nothing he has posted in thread is functional nor can he be held to any opinion he has made.

Don't see this

He is active lurking and lynch hunting, and being open about claiming scum, and you're acting like that's a good thing and he's town.
The hell?
Justify this.

Or this

If he was scum, why would he protect commando dude like that? should he get lynched and end up scum, Shawn would likely be the next target and it would be insta-lose for them if they are the team.

Yes, if Shawn is scum Commandodude is basically assured town.
No one is surprised by this.

and, if Shawn is town, Commando is also pretty obv town.

what I don't get though is how Irish is pretty conf. town, unless you are associating it with me flipping scum then

[Ms Marangal]

Yeeeaaahhhh....

I lied, looked through the Iso and Shawn isn't as town as I thought, though he still isn't the scum that Thor thinks he is

He was solid on his Thor scum read, though he wanted to get perspective of others to make sure he wasn't tunelling.

His read on me, Commando, Irish, and just about every other read he had moved quite a bit until he had Commando as obvtown. His voting can opportunistic, and a good amount of his reads are actually following other people, or he could be town sheeping other peoples reads.

He was town because of a handful of posts, those posts are him defending Commando, him trying to "understand" where others are coming from. That was the town motivation that I saw behind his post

He voted Monty when I stated that I wanted him to be a focus, so If Shawn is scum, Monty is probably town. I still don't see how Irish is probably town when Shawn is scum though.


I need to go re-read the game and rearrange my reads

[Ms Marangal]

You're at L-1?

[Ms Marangal]

Half of everyone who signed up has participated actively. MM was more active in V/LA than she is now. Syco and Nekoko have been gone for a couple of days, Thor just drops in to insult Shawn, Monty is now just participating a bit, and it seems Shawn ragequit.
This game has certainly been entertaining, but we need more participation.

This is actually one of the most active noobie games on this site... IDFK what you are smoking but I want some

Here's where I stand

Sakura, Commando, and Syncorax are all very likely town. I'm not going to do anything with them. These reads are probably not going to change

Likely town can be found in Nekoko

Shawn is Null, and so is Thor

and that leaves Irish and Monty as probable scum.

Irish somewhat contradicts himself in his post... He says that he finds Shawn to be scummy, yet he will suspect the person who decides to hammer him without good reason.

Shawn comments on the inactive people, though he is doing IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis). Hell, looking through his Iso, he's been doing IIoA all game.

He looks active for the most part, though his posts don't contain any real content.

Monty should actually be placed in my likely town pile looking at his Iso so that leaves one of my null-reads as probable scum. hrm..

Despite his lack of posting, what he does post does have a good amount of content

VOTE: Irish

[Ms Marangal]

eerrr... I'm using IIoA as a reason to say that you are scum

[Ms Marangal]

Not once did I say shawn was town because of IIoA...

I am also pretty sure I explained why I believe that you are scum as well...

Most of your posts are without much content, without much Original thought, and just active lurking at it's finest. You have a

few

good posts, however it's just a few.

[Ms Marangal]

That's supposed to be you, not Shawn Derp..

Irish somewhat contradicts himself in his post... He says that he finds Shawn to be scummy, yet he will suspect the person who decides to hammer him without good reason.

Irish comments on the inactive people, though he is doing IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis). Hell, looking through his Iso, he's been doing IIoA all game.

He looks active for the most part, though his posts don't contain any real content.

Fixed, that's what it's supposed to read


And I still have Shawn at null though he is showing signs of survivalistic tendencies, which is something I don't particularly like. His thought process is everywhere, his reads are jumping all over the place but I'm hesitant to believe that scum will ever be that transparent.

[Ms Marangal]

I think right now we should go with a no lynch or lynch Shawn. Anyways, VOTE: No Lynch

No. We do not do this kind of thing, a No lynch is a terrible idea.

[Ms Marangal]

Thanks MM for outing yourself as scum, this game so ez.
Why is MM scum? She didnt comment on the Monty 'case' other than it was Information rather than analysis and throws it away because of that, without quoting anything. She then says that Monty has produced 'content' when he has no original thought so far this game. Even early, she FoS Monty but now monty seems townier than like 1/2 the thread(slight exaggeration but thats the feeling I get from that post).

lol, You're cute. Don't pick a fight with one of the few who are still willing to town-read you.

You guys know what? I have been looking at Monty recently and guess what I found? Scum.
Let me tell you why.

1. He is the lurkiest dude in this game and lurking is a scumtell. Whats more is that with his low number of posts, 4, he hasnt advanced any read but posted the blendiest stuff imaginable. He asks questions he never follows up upon, all his posts are strictly in line with town sentiment.

2.

Sorry, I feel so overwhelmed right now. I haven't posted because I either haven't had anything to add or it's already been posted by someone. For what it's worth, with so many votes in this game already, I feel like The Irish Pope has "suspicions" that he is leading people to vote toward, yet feels no conviction to vote for them himself. That is enough to warrant my vote:
VOTE: TheIrishPope

Lets look at this post. It seems like monty is overwhelmed with the game. However apparently he has read enough to determine that by Irish Pope's posts, that Irish is trying to mislead town. This is quite a deep conclusion I think, and not one I expect from someone who is 'overwhelmed'. Also this conclusion is wrong, and if he actually read the thread enough to determine such a deep conclusion, he should know that Irish has no pull with anyone and obviously cant 'lead people to vote'.

3.

Indeed you do. Quite astute of you. Shawn, I am troubled by your consistent movement only because it doesn't seem motivated by a town-based interest. You are flighty, much as though you were attempting to spread as much confusion as possible. Just so we are clear, what are your feelings about people at this point in the game, and how have they changed as the game has progressed?

This post comes at a time where I am under heavy pressure, and is a summary of the some of the stuff that has been leveled at me. He then asks the most general question I have ever seen and I dont remember responding to it and he never follows it up with anything. He is trying to blend in with the town by being suspicious of me as it was the hot topic, possibly thinking of a way to get his vote on to me.

Monty is scum in this town because he has offered no new insights, has tried to get on townie bandwagons, me and Irish and is lurking the fuck out of this game cause he has been under NO PRESSURE. Lets start with this.
UNVOTE: Thor
VOTE: MontyWhittaker

1. How does one "advance a read". This is a game of logic, not popularity. A lot of things people say in this thread make sense, but the fact is that only six of us, at most, are correct. Choosing to "advance" someone that I am not fairly certain is correct does nothing to help anyone.

2. It's not that "deep" of a conclusion. It's a fact. He shifts votes, or at least had been at the time of my post. However, since then, he has made some observations that I have found interesting to say the least. With that slight justification, I will

UNVOTE: TheIrishPope.

Secondly, you contradict yourself in your read of me. You say that I make deep conclusions, but go on to say that they are wrong, and I am obviously not paying attention to the thread. Think about this with me: you accuse me of actually reading more than I am letting on and not reading the thread well at all with the same post.

3. You are correct that you never responded to the question, and I am amazed that you are brazen enough to continue not answering. My only assumption can be that you were hoping that I would not follow up with the question, which obviously makes me question why you would want that.

My suspicions are still strongly on you in jumping, and the only reason you aren't getting a vote from me now is that I don't wish to quickhammer until I am more certain.

I was asking you in an attempt to gauge how you were feeling at the time, as your consistent accusations were yielding no clues as to your motive. I would still appreciate an answer to that question...

Sakura, there were two reasons. The first is that I am still trying to get engaged in this game. I have trouble responding if I don't have something very specific in my mind to warrant a response. The second is that there was no need at that point to keep a vote on TheIrishPope. While he has by no means completely validated his innocence, neither has he done enough to continue warranting my suspicions of him as scum.

PEdit: Shawn, you say there are no disadvantages to claiming Vanilla Town. However, that does nothing to refute what Sakura said. Is there a reason for you making that claim in light of Sakura's statement, or do you simply have to find something to disagree with in everything people say?

It was a generic question to match your generic gameplay. It's hard to ask you a specific question, at least at that point, because you had made accusations toward a majority of the players in the game! Your persistent and not very effective defense has now made me wish to level an intent to hammer. I want to know exactly where you stand right now about people in the game.

I am also trying to figure out why you didn't acknowledge the other question I gave you regarding Sakura's post. You're not doing yourself any favors by your brute resistance in some areas, and utter silence in others.

Irish has pretty much won his way back into my good graces, but I am looking a bit more closely at Thor and Nekoko. Both for different reasons, obviously. Thor has made some intriguing plays when I look back at some of his previous games, and Nekoko has done a fantastic job of blending in and looking townish, which is the kind of people I hate.

PEdit: Now, now, TIP, we're just having a little fun, throwing out some names...no need to be so defensive.

Content, and this compromises half his Iso. He didn't start giving out content till later on in the game, but comparing this Iso with a few others, the content/post ratio is fairly decent. along with that, they are fairly understandable

[Ms Marangal]

You are null-town, I'm one of the few people who is not going to vote for you. You are currently null, but I'm still willing to give you a town read, not a strong one, but a town read nonetheless

In those posts that I quoted, he's giving out good questions and/or thought process's which show that he is looking for scum.

there is nothing wrong with the word "interesting" and it tends to elicit interesting interactions that are useful for finding scum, so yeah... content

[Ms Marangal]

Hmm

Unvote

VOTE: Shawn

Back to L-1 again Shawn.

[Ms Marangal]

Give the reason for you switch on Irish.

Why you voted commando, then decided to call him obvtown

Why you called Monty out for not posting much when Nekoko didn't post much either

and how/why you moved Sakura from scum to town

[Ms Marangal]

I would also want to know why you moved Thor from scum to null

[Ms Marangal]

Yes, and I'm switching that opinion on you, Thor is very convincing.

I thought you had a reason for doing what you did, turned that assumption into me defending you, though given the fact that the majority of my town reads are more fluid then I would like them to be has caused me to take a step back and actually read what has happened.

You forgot my question in regards to Nekoko and Monty

[Ms Marangal]

I want to lynch scum. You defending monty with all the wrong reasoning scummy. YES/NO?

No

and what I mean when I say, take a step back and read is I am taking a step back and do a more detailed reading of what has been going on, and start making connections. I don't do intensive read through unless I need to. I have been reading, but it was more of me looking for things that initially spark my interest and things that I can get into.

[Ms Marangal]

No, I was saying that, even if my reasoning is wrong (which I don't think it is) Defending him with it isn't scummy... Don't twist my words

and I change it now rather then when he stated it Initially because I can be fairly stubborn and I didn't think you were scum when he initially stated it.

[Ms Marangal]

Uhh...

I didn't refuse anything. I stated that my defense of him wasn't scummy. You asked if me defending Monty with "wrong reasoning" is scummy and I said that it wasn't. You asked Yes or No, I replied with No.

I changed my points now, rather than then Because I took a closer look at your posts and noticed details that I had missed before.

[Ms Marangal]

Also, 627 struck me in an off way

[Ms Marangal]

No you didn't

and your appeal to Sakura.

You're reads look manufactured.

You're reason on Monty is... Decent I suppose, though that's stuff I have seen town do a shit load of times as well.

[Ms Marangal]

It was a bad appeal obviously since I didn't like that post

and your reads look manufactured. put together, mechanical, not genuine it really isn't something that can be explained. You're reads were probably manufactured all game, tactical reads to suit your benefits.

Monty is the only good thing you have in that post, yes. But I'm not sure if I agree with it.

[Ms Marangal]

Uhh...

No, because my stance on him switched with that post I had mentioned

and I don't think Shawn has flipped town yet... I still feel like there is a chance of him flipping scum

[Ms Marangal]

and I

totally

wouldn't have switched from a hard-defending stance stating that I wouldn't place my vote on you to placing you on L-1 if I didn't have good reason and doing so

doesn't

place a shit load of pressure on me

[Ms Marangal]

V/LA until tuesday

I think I might be wrong about Commando

[Ms Marangal]

You know, if me and Monty are the scum-team, it would be a whole lot smarter to vote for me IMO. Active scum are far more dangerous then Lurking scum.

and I jumped onto one bandwagon... and I only voted like, twice. I'm hardly vote-hopping and when I was voting you, I was the only one on you...

[Ms Marangal]

Where are your suspicions, MM?

why? I'm pretty sure I stated a good amount of my reads yesterday, and they havn't changed much though why are you so interested in who I think is scum/town?

[Ms Marangal]

No, my suspicions have pretty much stayed the same. the only thing that I regret is retracting that town read I had on Shawn.

Nekoko is still probably town, Sycor I don't remember much about her. I would like her to speak up, I can't get a clear read off him though I think TIP is the most suspicious out of everyone. I'm iffy on Monty, though he remains to be null-scummish.

I'll make more content later on, though that's the bulk of my mindset atm

Thor, what happened to your suspicions on me?

[Ms Marangal]

also... I ask alot of question, but contribute little to the game? and how am I known for wagon hopping? I'm curious to see how you came up with that theory, especially since I only voted twice...

[Ms Marangal]

Uhh... no. wagon hopping is hopping from bandwagon to bandwagon. There were other wagon that I could have hopped onto, but I did not. throughout the entirety of yesterday, I only moved my vote once. And what about you? You placed Shawn at L-1 early on in the game and you also used your vote far more frequently than I did, you hopped onto wagons than I did, and so did a couple other people yet you don't call them out on it?

[Ms Marangal]

Dat OMGUS

I see nothing wrong with that post

[Ms Marangal]

Laying low is not what made Commando town, that on it's own is a null-tell though Commando has done many other things that stated to me that he was town

[Ms Marangal]

Commando is pretty open with his thoughts, when he posts it's short but you know what he's thinking. That's something I find to be a town-tell of sorts. He also dared to go for a no lynch (which is always a bad idea) regardless of the kinds of criticism he would have gotten

[Ms Marangal]

No, I'm not saying that making stupid choices makes a player likely town, nor does it make a player likely scum. I'm saying that Commando believes in what he's doing which is what I think is a town-tell

I am also not claiming that wagon-hopping is a scum-tell, I was countering someone who accused me of wagon-hopping. I want to know why he called me out on wagon hopping, while he didn't call others out on the same thing. TIP obviously believed that my wagon hopping was scum motivated though he doesn't extend that same belief on other people

[Ms Marangal]

He's at L-2 right now, I want to dance with him a little before I decide if I should vote him

[Ms Marangal]

lol, Why am I not surprised?

Dino, what do you think of TIP?

[Ms Marangal]

I'm pretty sure this is the old Setup Dino... not the new one. This game started before the new setup was finalized

[Ms Marangal]

On you, Marangal, I can see the parts that are just playstyle but what worries me is that you were just pointing out all the towns throughout Day 1, only settling on Shawn (and then switching to TIP and resettling on Shawn) after the wagon formed on him. Seems very sheepy to me, trying to help with the wagon without being blamed for it. I've tried looking over meta but unfortunately this sort of play isn't common for you, town or scum.

Explain this part? I don't think I ever called anything shawn did scummy until I moved my vote on him. I could swear that, the majority of the first day I was actually trying to defend him from the forming wagon then I did a double take and placed him back at L-1. I also remember only having called out TIP and Monty as scum, everyone else I had pegged as town or null

Elaborate on commando scum? I can see 731 as a probable noob scum tell though I don't see how 338 and 704 are noob scum tells. What do you see there that I don't? I particularly saw it as null.

as for my read on Monty isn't an easy one to explain. He isn't particularly doing bad play, I think he's actually doing fairly decent however posts like 586, 590, and 607 rub me the wrong way

[Ms Marangal]

Don't have time, I'll be back Tuesday and maybe Wednesday for some of you guys

[Ms Marangal]

Don't have time, I'll be back Tuesday and maybe Wednesday for some of you guys

[Ms Marangal]

ehh...

Fuck it, I think I'm going to hammer. TIP was, and has been one of my scum-reads so...

I won't hammer unless I get the go, and until I get the claim. the only people not on that wagon are you, me and Dino and I trust Dino to not quickhammer

[Ms Marangal]

Yes, a claim is where you say your role

[Ms Marangal]

Ugh...

forget about it then

VOTE: commando

[Ms Marangal]

The writing Tierce used to state that you replaced in, and whom is incredibly small and I couldn't see it. I knew you replaced someone, I just didn't check who

I also didn't miss your request, which is why I said I would wait until I get the go to hammer. The statement was made to show that a quick hammer isn't likely to happen anytime soon

His reaction to me asking him to claim though caused me to change my mind

[Ms Marangal]

Should have, if I was actually thinking...

I don't know what you looking at my Best scum and town game would do since this is far from my best performance but

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26455 - Scum
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=25693 - Town

Irish and Monty were my top two scum reads Via PoE yes, though my town-read on Nekoko wasn't as strong as I would have liked it to be. Most of the things I drew for reasons he was town is based off Meta and I really don't see the things Nekoko does in this game to be coming from a scum mindset. I don't really know how to explain my town-lean on Nekoko

I gave Shawn a stronger read then what I was actually feeling at that point and the only reason I switches my view on him was due to the fact that I took a closer look at what Thor was stating against Shawn and it made sense as well as counter-act a fair amount of things that I used to defend him.

My town Read on Commando isn't as strong as I am presenting it to be, none of my reads are.

at the start of the second day, my reads haven't changed much. All my reads are weak leans one way or another and the weakness of my reads don't take much to change, hence the "haven't changed much"

[Ms Marangal]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=500 actually, I like this for best town game

and I almost never give my buddy a town read as scum, even when said buddy is acting pro-town. At best, they get a null-read and some vague suspicion thrown in their direction. The only time I've town read a buddy is in the scum game I linked and it was a polygamist set-up. the town read was my "lover"

as for Neko, I had two games with her, one as a scum-buddy (linked game) and the other I was scum and she was town, She lurked the fuck outta the game I was with her in and she was fairly active and contributing reads and suspicions in the game she was town in. this is reminiscent of her town game

Dino, who I had as a decent town read, made some decent points on Commando which made me question my own read on that slot.

I also didn't say I intentionally hyped up the strength of my reads, I just said that I had it presented as a stronger read then what I originally had.

[Ms Marangal]

I havn't yet looked at your reads on anyone. I saw who you tagged as scum, and who you tagged as town and then as null but I didn't look at the reason behind them yet

I don't really know how you want me to answer those questions... I personally am Wary of the claim and I don't see why he would claim with little pressure placed on him, and more so why he decided to use me as a clear. I'm still reading him as town, though I'm slightly more suspicious of him but at the same time I can't see any scum-motivation behind such claims.

answer to question two can't really be answered any differently, every player reacts to claims differently though right now I would say give Neko the benifit of the doubt


you say you play amazing games, yet you are a noob personified? it doesn't mesh well with me at all

UNVOTE:

[Ms Marangal]

I'm for it, but TIP bothers me.

TIP, are you trying to counter-claim Neko? Y/N

I can't, for the life of me, understand why you are addressing me with these questions rather then the IC. Theoretically speaking, he would be the better person to address these kinds of answers to.


and I'm assuming I misread your 819 then, because that's the impression I got off it

[Ms Marangal]

Reg, I don't really agree with your read on Thor. Something about his play bothers me and this is the only game I'm not auto-town reading him in (granted, I'm don't have any finished games with him so I'm not exactly sure to how accurate my alignment read on him would be)

I agree that a few of his posts look like he doesn't think he'll survive to see the next day, though it looks like faked concern to me

I do kinda agree with your Monty read, and I wholly agree with your Dino/Syc read.

the post-hammer Paranoia could easily be faked, given it wasn't exactly subtle, as could alot of his good progressions during the game. the genuinity in 607 is more about theory then it is about the actual game

Didn't read your post on Nekoko, though I'm fairly sure I had already addressed that

Pedit: when you call the other person out by stating that you have the stated role

[Ms Marangal]

assuming we aren't getting a counter-claim from Irish?

I don't like how he's trying to paint himself as a noob, while, at the same time, making it evident that he has played mafia before but on another site. He does have some deeper level thinking going on in a few of his posts so some of the questions on theory that he asks seems kinda odd. I still don't see his answer to his reaction to me asking him to claim, and he keeps on avoiding our requests to have him claim.

we have a day and this seems to be the best option ATM
VOTE: Irish

[Ms Marangal]

what are you talking about? TIP is at L-1

[Ms Marangal]

Why don't you believe Nekoko's claim TIP? What about it makes you think it's false?

[Ms Marangal]

I don't think that it's false, I just don't believe her. It may be true, but there's no proof, after all. And I don't see the reason as to why she claimed with only two votes on her and with no Doctor alive.

.... I want to lynch this shit

if you don't believe a claim, you think it's false. She stated why she claimed, like a while back. She thought that she was going to get lynched with the deadline so close. she didn't want it to happen

[Ms Marangal]

The Contradictions... They sting....

jesus christ, I hope Awestie catches up soon because I want this shit lynched now. You need death.

[Ms Marangal]

He's saying that he doesn't believe the claim, but he doesn't think it's false because it could be true... how is this not a contradiction Thor?

either way, TIP needs death.

Right now?

I think you and Reg are the most likely partners

[Ms Marangal]

and I definitely feel that his play today is scummier than his play yesterday.

[Ms Marangal]

He's fence sitting on the fact that what he thinks about Neko's claim. He's saying that he doesn't believe the claim to be true, but at the same time is saying that it could be. It's scummier than saying "I don't believe the claim" or "I do believe the claim" Because both of those are definite answers while what he's giving us isn't.


what he's giving us is "it can be true, but I don't believe it". That, combined with his strange soft pr claims, and his continual questioning on what he should do at this point is striking me odd as well. It almost makes me want to believe that He's scum and Nekoko is his partner...

[Ms Marangal]

Why would we NL here?

[Ms Marangal]

Or, we could lynch through one of the uncleared and have a better chance of narrowing down the suspects tomorrow.

since the only viable people for scum were active during the night, it's evident that the scum were going to go for WIFOM, which to me clears Thor and makes you that much more of a probable suspect.

[Ms Marangal]

VOTE: Neko

[Ms Marangal]

V/LA until tuesday

[Ms Marangal]

Still really don't want that no-lynch

[Ms Marangal]

The Idea of it really, really makes my skin crawl and with a no lynch, we go into tomorrow with possibly 4 conf. town and two non-conf. town who of which we lynch

or a cop, or a conf. town is killed during the night in which we start tomorrow with 2 conf. town and 2 non. conf town

or, we go into tomorrow with 3 conf. town and on conf. scum

with no chance of tagging scum

with a lynch, we will go into tomorrow with

4 possible conf. town, and one non-confirmed townie of whom we lynch

3 possible conf. town, and conf. scum of whom we lynch

or we lose cop/conf. town during the night go into tomorrow with 2 conf. town and have 2 plausible scumspects

but that's only assuming if we don't tag scum today, and we won't have a chance of tagging scum if we do a no-lynch

I think scum is in Regfan or Monty, I want to go with Monty because he was an earlier read and Reg can easily be a paranoia read

[Ms Marangal]

Why is Reg conf. town Monty? He wasn't investigated by the cop and I'm still a little unsure to what his alignment is. If it has to go down to you and Thor though, I'd go for You over Thor

[Ms Marangal]

I'd be down for Monty, though I'm shifty about Reg. all this talk about his Meta and how so Obv town he has been this game is giving me chicken skin. I want to see what he comes up with before I make any decisions

[Ms Marangal]

damn, I'll catch up later. It's monday, and monday is my bad day in regards to activity

[Ms Marangal]

Ok, I just took a quick look through your games Reg, and I see what you mean RE the difference, though I don't think it's an obvious one. After reading through it, I still have an unsure feeling though I do admit that this game does, very closely, follow your town meta better then your scum one.

I like Monty over you and Thor, though alot of what Thor is saying Throws me off as well. He looks like he's genuinely hunting, and trying to actually figure out who, between the other two unconfirmed are scum much like Reg while I don't feel that vibe coming from Monty. Monty, I think is just playing follow the leader.

My concern is though, if I am wrong about Monty then it's going to be a choice between Thor and Reg and I don't know who between the two of them would be scum

[Ms Marangal]

Reg isn't voting anyone Thor...

[Ms Marangal]

Mmm....

I don't think so but I think He needs to say something before I vote him

[Ms Marangal]

Montyyyyyyyy where are youuuuu?

[Ms Marangal]

Ok.

Thor's town, and if it isn't Monty it's Reg

VOTE: Monty

[Ms Marangal]

lol, poor Fropome

[Ms Marangal]

I can read her scum game

I'm cop-cleared... and so is Awestie...

You're sweet though my town/scum Meta isn't all that different from each other...

[Ms Marangal]

I didn't see the Doc reveal, but then again I wasn't looking for it? *Shrugs*

and Sorry Reg, It's know a terrible logical fallacy to have and then there's the fact that you kept on using self-meta which hyped up my paranoia even more, but hey! at least we won!!

and I think that, if Irish didn't react the way he did when I asked him to claim, he wouldn't have gotten lynched. I kept on thinking who, between Neko and Irish was the real remaining PR and I was stuck with someone who claimed me as innocent and someone who looked like they were worried about outing their role

[Ms Marangal]

OMG

I'm so stealing those tips if I end up being an ScumIC