Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[awestfie]

Hey everyone. Got my role PM and super pumped to finally play a newbie game again (Remember them being very enjoyable last time I IC'ed one). I'm going to boil a pot of tea and then do a read through of the thread, if there's anything you want me to look more into specifically let me know soon.

Why would you post just to say that you can't post right now? Seems like filler to me. Also, you were clearly faking AFK; Regfan should be lynched purely based on this post alone.

Also while it's superlame can someone please unvote while I go through the thread - I don't want the risk of someone quick-hammering.

VOTE: Regfan

--

And in all seriousness, I will UNVOTE: - I'll read this game later today, is there anything in particular I should know? By that I mean, has anyone claimed? I think it'd be more useful for me to have that information prior to re-reading instead of finding it out during my re-read.

[awestfie]

My bad.

UNVOTE: Regfan

Haven't had much time to read today, my apologies - although I will say that I am a bit confused as to why a PR would claim when the doctor is dead, especially with only an innocent report. Although, I haven't played much forum mafia to know if this is actually optimal to do? It seems somewhat sub-optimal to me.

[awestfie]

Well, here's what I was gonna post 2 hours after you hammered, Regfan; I was sleeping when you hammered, so..

Alright, here are my "reads," I'm not gonna bother reading Commandodude since I'd rather just read the current person in that slot, that being Regfan.

Regfan:

Your concern about someone quick-hammering (post 785 and 787) and your concern about me not having any reads so close to the deadline (post 863 and 865) makes me feel that you're most likely town this game, although that read isn't all that solid; you know that I've trouble reading you. Regardless of any of that, your demand for a JK/Cop CC is pretty much null since it would give us a confirmed scum and anyone should be pushing for a CC at this point. In short, I'm unsure of your alignment. If I had to tell you, I'd say that you're town right now. Although, I do have to ask, do you still feel like Ms Marangal / Nekoko are a team after the cop claim from Nekoko?

MontyWhittaker:

I've a slight town-read on you. I like post 716; it didn't really come across as an OMGUS to me, and even if it was; I think town would be more inclined to OMGUS in that situation, rather than scum. I'm pointing out the OMGUS stuff because TheIrishPope felt like it was an OMGUS in post 718. The only real issue that I have is that you seem to be over-apologetic about everything.

I was hoping someone would die tonight so I wouldn't have to read an extra person, but this is what I have. I'm even more certain about Monty being town now, since Irish flipped scum.

[awestfie]

Oh, and I'd have to agree with a NL here, it just seems like the optimal strategy considering the cop claim from Nekoko. Although, I would love to ask: why did you investigate me, Nekoko?

[awestfie]

although that read isn't all that solid; you know that I've trouble reading you.

This shouldn't be true (At least not in forum mafia) you know the massive differences between my town / scum play (We've hydra'ed as scum together and you've seen a few of my town games; plus I think we've even had a conversation about the sheer difference) + you should read Commando (He's the very definition of obvtown). Right now though given the no-kill with a cop claim alive you should know that I'm town without a shadow of a doubt.

I need to carve out some time and do a Irish interaction-read with Monty/Thor but you should let me know what you think of Thors Post 452 because I read that as town. Also do you think Thors likely to forget to submit a kill over Monty? (I'm in two minds over it at the moment with neither making a full amount of sense). I was kind of hoping that the no-death was caused by you being a JK and having JK'ed Nekoko which is why I wanted everyone to post.

Honestly, I think Nekoko is the last scum here; the fact that she didn't die and the fact that had she had gotten a guilty on the last scum it would be auto-win for us; there's literally no reason why scum should no kill in this situation.

[awestfie]

I don't know why you think scum forgot to submit their kill, I'm almost certain on Monty being town here. I'll read Thor in a bit, but I'm honestly certain on Nekoko being scum here, nothing else seems to make sense to me here.

[awestfie]

Oh, screw this, I'm the JK and I JK'd Nekoko last night.

[awestfie]

Oopsy daisy.

VOTE: Nekoko

[awestfie]

It's always fun to mess with you, Regfan; I'm glad you were town this game. Although, you get no points since you didn't call Ms Marangal town.

[awestfie]

You've actually disappointed me, Regfan; you're supposed to call every town as town, but no, you had to forget one of them; I don't think Regfan should win this one with us.

[awestfie]

Anyways, can the rest of you vote since we've already won?

[awestfie]

Damn. If I don't get to win with you guys does that mean I can joint with scum?

Nekoko, force a NL and I'll selfovte tomorrow!

I don't get how you didn't realize that 1) There can only be 2 PRs in the setup and dead doc + you is 2 so she was auto scum yesterday... and 2) That she claimed a report when you claimed to jailkeep (Which is a roleblock) on her.

Well, you lynched mafia before I could even point that out, like I said, you posted 2 hours prior to when I was going to post; I didn't know the deadline was so close. It doesn't matter, we won, obviously because of me and not because of you.

I actually was gonna quick-hammer TheIrishPope yesterday; but, you insisted on me reading the thread, so you actually stole my hammer and glory.

[awestfie]

Also to be fair Ms's town-read on Nekoko (Which was complete bullshit) made it really hard to read her as town. So give me some leeway!

I'm not going to do that, I expect the best reads from you and now I will never be able to trust you in future games, I can't believe that you didn't call every town as town and I am heavily disappointed in your scum-hunting abilities.

[awestfie]

I apologise. Just please don't ban me, I'll do better next time.

I think you should definitely give me that "Best Town Performance" scummie. You obviously do not deserve it and I obviously carried you (again) this game. I can't believe you, out of all people, would get a scummie about best town performance when you can't even properly town-read someone.

[awestfie]

I think you should definitely give me that "Best Town Performance" scummie. You obviously do not deserve it and I obviously carried you (again) this game. I can't believe you, out of all people, would get a scummie about best town performance when you can't even properly town-read someone.

I think you'd be more deserving of the paragon of mafia hunters one given how much of this games win is due to your incredibly pro skills of cc'ing (late).

Should I log in to my Thor665 account, hammer this win. Log into my Tierce account (Which the password to is 'imobvtown') and confirm this game as a win?

Oh, please; my CC wasn't that late and you guys lynched the mafia anyways; had I not listened to you and re-read the thread, I would've hammered the mafia in a heartbeat, then JK'd the other mafia and we would've won the game, that was my bloody plan; but YOU ruined it all.

And please do log into your alts so that you can say: "Awestfie won another game for me, I really do not know what I would do without her!" in the end-game chat.

[awestfie]

that was my bloody plan; but YOU ruined it all.

Now you just sound like one of those grumpy old men who yell "You meddling kids, always ruining things for me".

Yeah, this describes this situation; you always ruin things for me, Regfan, and I'm sick of it. I will fight you.

[awestfie]

Man, I actually think you're town now, dang! I'm not actually JK.

UNVOTE: Nekoko

Let's just NL, screw it; it's better anyways.

[awestfie]

Anyways, why'd you check me, Nekoko?

[awestfie]

Oh, and I want to have everyone's reads before we do actually NL. If Nekoko is actually cop then Ms Marangal and I are clear, right?

[awestfie]

Vote: No lynch

Man, I actually think you're town now, dang! I'm not actually JK.

You're a really bad person. And also this means mafia didn't submit a kill (Which makes no fucking sense).

Says you.

VOTE: No Lynch

[awestfie]

Hey Regfan, if Nekoko is indeed cop, who's mafia and why?

[awestfie]

Well, no lynching is optimal today, Ms Marangal; there's literally no reasons why we shouldn't do it. If Nekoko is indeed cop, then she should be dying the next night, because there's a 1/3 chance she'll be getting a guilty report and even if she is fake, then it's auto-win for the town; if she dies, then we'll have a clear for both remaining days, assuming we lynch incorrectly. We're in an incredibly good spot and I don't see us losing this at this point; assuming that we NL today.

[awestfie]

Eh, this is going slowly, Regfan; maybe you should just NL and see what happens? I know you're trying to figure things out today, but; no one's really willing to do much today for some reason.

[awestfie]

Well, damn; I kinda wish Nekoko hadn't checked me now, since I hate being a clear and I would've rather have had Regfan as clear here so that if he ended up mishammering in the end I could've just laughed at him. Sadly; that's not going to happen.

Regardless of any of that, I felt like your reaction to my JK claim was somewhat townie, Regfan; however you do know that I would attempt a reaction test in that situation and your reaction really doesn't mean anything to me because of that. The only reason why I think you're slightly town is because no kill happened yesterday and I don't think you'd be inclined to delay the game like that for no reason whatsoever, especially with a cop claim.

[awestfie]

Oh, and I'd love to get everyone's explanation as to why scum would be more inclined to no-kill there and give town another clear instead of just killing the cop.

Mind you that the cop could've gotten a guilty and made it auto-win for town; so, why would scum do that? Realistically, the only answer I can come up with is; the last scum didn't send in a kill.

Although, if someone else has an answer to this, please do let me know cause I have no idea why that would happen.

[awestfie]

Well, since Regfan and awestfie are Town, it's down to Ms. Marangal and Thor, unless I missed something.

Regfan isn't confirmed town; only Ms Marangal and I are.

[awestfie]

Monty + Irish

I'll go into Thor+Irish interactions later on.

When's "later on?"

[awestfie]

Oopsy daisy.

Tonight after I finish some study + cook dinner (Probably 4 hours?).

Fair enough, I'll go finish my nap and I should be back around 4 hours or so and I'll ISO the three of you once I see your reads.

[awestfie]

Honestly, upon re-reading, I'm having a hard time believing that Regfan wouldn't submit a kill in that situation, for the simple fact that he knows that that could've put him into auto-lose.

His reaction to my JK claim was great, although, like I said in an earlier post; he would know that I'd attempt a fake-claim / reaction test like that, despite of my alignment.

[awestfie]

Oh, you two are posting right now, great.

Monty, explain to me why you can't see Thor/Irish as a scum-team, please.

[awestfie]

Wait, do you both town-read Thor?

[awestfie]

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.

This? I don't really see anything special from this, mind enlightening me?

I'll be here in 30-40 minutes, this needs a lot more activity, in my opinion; re-reading is one thing, but I want to see what people have to say today, I'd rather lynch correctly today rather than going with the "town-read one, lynch the others" plan.

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

"Shawn doesn't look like scum.
Ergo - Shawn is scum."
:neutral:

Unvote: Sakura Hana
Vote: IrishPope

All right, this seems legit. These first few posts all seem good, but...

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.

I would like an explanation of this assumption, if you don't mind.

You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...

That sorta makes me want to call him town, frankly - he's being almost silly antagonistic.

And that ends all of the hypothesizing regarding Thor. I'm hesitant to call him scum with just this. Give me a second to look at Regfan.

Oh, and Thor, the main reason for that error was that I was trying to dash something off before we left.

This was the post I made regarding Irish. It's all I saw with his Irish interactions. It could possibly be scum consciously avoiding his scumbuddy, but it might not. The hardest part in justifying a Thor scumread is still that pesky No Kill...

Reg, all I saw with commandodude was what appeared to be a deliberate choice to not mention Irish whatsoever.

Awestfie, what are you thinking?

Honestly, I feel like you're actively scum-hunting, and you were my town-read before the cop died; although, I don't seem to understand the town-read on Thor all that much, maybe I'm missing something, but from ISO'ing him I don't really have a solid read on him, I'd like to see him participate more today.

You have pretty much the same reaction as me towards 452, I don't entirely understand the assumption; or why Regfan thinks that specific post is meaningful.

Regardless of any of that, I'm unsure as to if you're town anymore and I need to ISO you, that no-kill is making me paranoiac because I honestly wouldn't see Regfan do it, but I honestly don't want to just rely on that and say: "Okay, lynch whoever isn't Regfan and hope that we win," cause I feel like that's the wrong attitude to have and I'm unsure about Regfan's alignment.

I want to see Thor's reads and a detailed reasoning behind them, that way I can understand the point of view of everyone and it will make it easier for me to ISO all of you.

[awestfie]

Awestfie, I read Thors Post 452 as a strong town-tell because it's the sort of post I make pretty much only as town, I get worried about an impending night-kill and want to leave behind reads and thoughts in case I do die whereas as scum I don't do it at all - I also think the 'interaction hunting' ie. Shaun not being partners with Irish/Commandodude is something that town do considerably more than scum. Oh and the fact that scum forgot to submit a kill shouldn't be the

only

reason you think I'm town, you know my meta better than most people though probably not as well as (Empire / Tierce / Tammy ect know it).

I don't town-read you though, I said that I was unsure about your alignment; I was just using you as an example.

[awestfie]

Oh, and I still don't understand why you think 452 is townie, cause I honestly don't see it, it may apply to your meta, but why does it apply to Thor? You say it's something

you

would be less inclined to do as scum, so how does that magically apply to Thor?

[awestfie]

And why should I town-read you, Regfan?

Apparently you weren't happy with what you thought was my town-read on you, so please; tell me why you're town.

[awestfie]

And why should I town-read you, Regfan?
Apparently you weren't happy with what you thought was my town-read on you, so please; tell me why you're town.

You are trolling me now, aren't you?

You tell me.

[awestfie]

I think you're just trying to piss me of and I think that was your intention the second you replaced in.

There was no way I could've known I was gonna end up being clear, it just happened.

Honestly, I would've preferred if Nekoko had checked you, if you ask me, that way I could just tell you to lynch the other two over and over.

Things just didn't go my way; anyways, you're sure on Thor being scum, yeah?

[awestfie]

Oops, I meant Monty, not Thor.

[awestfie]

Well, I got the names confused..

[awestfie]

Lovely.

It looks like you all want Monty, then.

Although, I want Thor to out his read on Regfan / Monty with some details, because he literally voted Monty without saying all that much today.

[awestfie]

Man, I kinda like Monty though, I thought he was town, and he's just actively trying to find the scum today.

[awestfie]

Awestfie, try and explain your Monty town-read for me (In as much detail as possible please) - The "OMGUS doesn't read as a scum-tell" doesn't do much for me.

Well, okay; I'm not all that confident on the read, but I do like Monty's play today; he just looks like town trying to actively scum-hunt, although I will say that his previous days are a lot weaker.

Here's Monty's voting pattern from day 1 and 2, in order:

Day 1:

He votes TheIrishPope. (241)
He unvotes TheIrishPope. (526)
He votes Shawn. (666)

Day 2:

He votes TheIrishPope. (716)

--

Alright, now let's look at the interactions / reads that TheIrishPope had with the three of you.

Day 1:

"Thor: Him being an IC and all, he certainly does have more experience. It does not mean he is free of guilt, though. His vote on Shawn seemed very pro-Town, so I have nothing on him so far."
"Commandodude: ?"
"MontyWhittaker: Posted exactly ONCE and hasn't been back. Incited discussion by drawing out Thor, but this one post gives me nothing. Monty is a Mafia Lurker, probably."
All of those are over at Post 229.

TheIrishPope's first FOS was Monty (252) yet, he voted Commandodude? 258.

Day 2:

TheIrishPope has Monty and Ms Marangal as his "scummiest players." 712

And then, yeah; that's pretty much it, his last vote was on Nekoko; Post 739.

--

Just because of all of this now.. I think you're town, Regfan.

[awestfie]

Are you happy, Regfan? You actually made me re-read.

I'm not sure between Monty/Thor now, but I think you're town.

...I'm wrong, aren't I?

[awestfie]

I also didn't answer your question at all, Regfan; because now I'm really unsure as to if Monty is town.

[awestfie]

Although, I do find it curious that for the most part, TheIrishPope didn't have a read on Commandodude, yet still voted him.

Also, I don't understand why you guys didn't lynch TheIrishPope day 1, but; that's another story.

[awestfie]

Yeah, I'm here; not much to say, though; I think I want to lynch Monty today though.

Unless you have a better idea, Ms Marangal.

[awestfie]

Lalala, where's Monty?

[awestfie]

Oh, what.

Whatever.

VOTE: Fropome

[awestfie]

Oh, oops; I just hammered apparently.

[awestfie]

omg you just lost us the game if ur town.

Oh no! I just lost us the game!

[awestfie]

Yeah, I have to agree with Fropome here, we should've hammered Ms Marangal, upon re-reading; I can see that she's obvious scum; maybe we should've waited for Fropome 's compelling case.

Dang.

[awestfie]

Are you bloody kidding me?

[awestfie]

Regfan, you left me alive to make fun of me if I ended up not hammering you, didn't you?

[awestfie]

Ok.

Thor's town, and if it isn't Monty it's Reg

VOTE: Monty

Hmm...

[awestfie]

Oh god, hold on.

I will hammer this right, don't worry town.

[awestfie]

Oh hello, thank god, you're here.

[awestfie]

Hey, would you mind if I just hammered?

[awestfie]

Oh dear.

[awestfie]

Lmao, you're messing with me.

[awestfie]

I'm just gonna stick with my original read.

[awestfie]

Are you refreshing the page, Regfan?

[awestfie]

Whatever.

VOTE: Thor

[awestfie]

I did it!