Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[TheIrishPope]

This is my first game too, I will also need help from the IC.

[TheIrishPope]

Shawn, I don't think that vote will count. The correct format is [ vote ]Name Here[ /vote ], without the spaces.

[TheIrishPope]

Sorry guys, I did fall asleep. Sorry about that.
New Introduction: I am TheIrishPope! You may call me Irish, Pope, or IrishPope (or put any new nickname, that's fine.)
I have a bit of catching up to do, I'll let you know what I think!

[TheIrishPope]

Thank you sycorax! I will protect everyone, don't worry. Again, this is my first game on MS, but I have played online and in real life.
It seems Sakura and Shawn might be partners and are attacking each other harmlessly. I am not throwing out my vote because we have time, and I would like to see all players commenting on the thread.

At mod, has everyone confirmed? If not, who is missing?

[TheIrishPope]

They would also seem suspicious.
Sycorax, any thoughts?
I'm just trying to know everyone's opinion.

[TheIrishPope]

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.
Sakura, I did not understand your feud with Thor. Could you please elaborate?

[TheIrishPope]

WIFOM really. I would like to hear what he has to say before throwing out votes.
Sycorax, why are you giving them leniency? They would be attentive if they signed up for this. Why do you defend them like that?

[TheIrishPope]

Pope and Sakura have a possibility of being scum for throwing out the "I need help"/Noob card so early on in the game and I am suspicious of both however, the likelyhood of both of them being scum is very low. At this point in time, I do not have reliable scum-reads.

Just because I wanted some help, I'm scum?
Sakura, the person who votes first is generally scum. So I do believe he is most likely mafia.
Where is everyone?

[TheIrishPope]

This is why I am not voting yet.
You really are a persistent player, Sakura.

[TheIrishPope]

YMMV.
Sycorax, why do you defend Sakura with such glee?

[TheIrishPope]

Sakura, sycorax, my apologies for being nervous and skeptical of everyone. I just want my first game to go well. If either of you are mafia, I'm pretty sure I will get killed at night for talking too much.
Seriously, where is everyone?

[TheIrishPope]

Yeah, that's another thing, I'm used to 12 hour days. At least we get two weeks instead of three, eh?
Why do you see me as scum?

[TheIrishPope]

Irish, where do you get the impression that the first person to vote is likely scum? Explain that to me. Also, don't play the sympathy card, it's going to further my scum-read on you.

Games I have played. In general, the most eager to lynch someone wants to speed up the process of killing. Again,

this is my experience.

If you don't agree with me, that's fine.

I'm used to 24/12s. And the third week is the night phase here.

The night phase is three days long.
My experience does not mean you have to believe what I say. That was my opinion, that's all. We still have two weeks to weed out the scum. I'm not worried about you guys, because you seem to be town for the moment. However, you all ganging up on me does make me think. I am worried about those who are not posting as much: Shawn, Thor, and those who have not posted at all. Sakura, sycorax, Marangal, a question for all of you: Who do you think is scum at the moment?

[TheIrishPope]

Got it mod! Thanks.

sycorax, I will follow your advice. I will stop worrying. I'm confident Town will win this and the scum will die. My newbie paranoia is surfacing.
Thor, do you know something we do not? You seem a bit too eager to lynch me.

[TheIrishPope]

Sakura, do you not believe in the power of the town?
Thor, would you care to explain why people should lynch me with such haste?

[TheIrishPope]

Who would you say is the most scummiest? (This question goes for everyone.)
Marangal, why would I hold my vote if I was scum?

[TheIrishPope]

I'm just trying to hold off those who accuse me of being scum by using logical fallacies.

[TheIrishPope]

A question for all again (pardon my excessive enquiring):
Lynch All Liars, yay or nay?

[TheIrishPope]

Shawn appears out of the blue and wants to lynch Thor because he

is really really useless

?

[TheIrishPope]

Lynch All Lurkers?
Just because someone is not contributing "correctly" to the game, doesn't mean they're scum. I say "correctly" because everyone has a different definition for it, so YOU are the one definitely looking scummy. Shawn is probably number one in my scum list.

[TheIrishPope]

Again:

I want to hear from everyone first.

[TheIrishPope]

Actually, i forgot to read something that i noticed on ISO on Thor when i wanted to check the reasoning for his vote. And i quite agree.

VOTE: IrishPope

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

Care to explainthis post?

WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me) logic. Scum try very hard to look innocent, and to me, Shawn goes a tad overboard with it.
Sakura, please give me an explanation as to why you defend Shawn, given he is acting scummy.

I see there was a confusion when thor first posted.
I think it's because of this which came from a template
introduction post for ICs.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage).

---

Caught up.

VOTE: Shawn

atm shawn looks like scum trying to look super townie. Calling scum because a new player says they are new etc.?

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

Finding TheIrishPope's post suspicious. His reason for suspecting Shawn looks the same as sycorax's reason
for voting him but the difference is that TIP didn't vote Shawn and his reason is weaker.

Sakura, the person who votes first is generally scum. So I do believe he is most likely mafia.

Where did you get this idea (from epic mafia perhaps?)
I think in all of my games I played, people who vote first are not mafia.
It's basically a null tell because either town or mafia will do it.

Again: I want to hear from everyone first.

Why do you need to hear from everyone before you cast your vote?
If you think someone is scummy, vote for him.
You don't need to know whether people will agree with you or not
because it will look you are a cautious scum.

VOTE: TheIrishPope

---

Also I feel SH is slight town for now. I don't think a first time scum player
can post as active and as spontaneous as she is.

Also I find Shawn suspicious although he looks like an aggressive reckless newb town

---

Oh and hi VI Marangal

I have never played in Epic Mafia, although I have heard of it. Again, YMMV. It is my opinion. Why are you causing mass paranoia and continuing to raise the same points which I have already explained? Setting yourself over suspicion is in itself suspicious.
I am not waiting for people to agree with me. I want them to talk to develop reads on them. If I vote people who are active, there is a greater chance I hit town, and you all look town at the moment. I choose not to vote at the moment because I don't want to hurt Town.
Nekoko, why do you defend sycorax?

Also, something that was on my mind a while ago: Why did MontyWhittaker post once, only to leave?

[TheIrishPope]

These arguments are really weak. Here's why:

WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me) logic. Scum try very hard to look innocent, and to me, Shawn goes a tad overboard with it.
Sakura, please give me an explanation as to why you defend Shawn, given he is acting scummy.

Then vote for Shawn now

I am not waiting for people to agree with me. I want them to talk to develop reads on them. If I vote people who are active, there is a greater chance I hit town, and you all look town at the moment. I choose not to vote at the moment because I don't want to hurt Town.

So Shawn in fact looks town to you? I thought you suspect him

Nekoko, why do you defend sycorax?

Is quoting sycorax's post to show that your reason for "suspecting" Shawn looks the same is called defending?

Also, something that was on my mind a while ago: Why did MontyWhittaker post once, only to leave?

Directing away attention to someone especially if it's just about someone's activeness is suspicious

He looks like scum. It does NOT follow that I am obligated to vote for him. I am not directing attention away from me, I am just trying to weed out scum in an attempt to, you know, WIN the game.

WIFOM logic just leads to circles and circles, imo. Shawn does look scummy indeed, but the fact that Irish has to keep reminding us how towny he is sounds off to me.

I agree with you Sakura, but a newb doesn't know he should avoid it according to the current meta. That is why I am not voting (as I have said a dozen times) and waiting on everyone to post so that I can identify who the scum is.

Irish, what is scummy about my posting? Specifically?

Your sudden appearance and change of vote seem suspicious. Also, it does not make sense to lynch someone because they are useless.

[TheIrishPope]

Irish, what is scummy about my posting? Specifically?

Your sudden appearance and change of vote seem suspicious. Also, it does not make sense to lynch someone because they are useless.

Why is my appearance scummy?
Why is the change of vote scum motivated? I assume you are talking about sakura to thor? Why is that scummy?
I said other things, but generally if an experienced player is useless, they may be scum. Its a point but not the main point. Do you want to address anything else I said about thor?

Sorry, I misworded: The way you appeared out of nowhere to change your vote looks suspicious. It looks scummy because you are practically trying to lynch someone due to their lack of usefulness in the game. Nobody knows anything in Day 1; I might say you are useless and vote you, but it wouldn't make sense, you see? It seems to me you are impatient and restless. You want to advance to night suddenly to kill Town. You are acting very scummy.

If I was scum, why would I not vote? I am looking at the people on the bandwagon, they seem the most suspicious as well. Any thoughts on this, Shawn?

[TheIrishPope]

People here are pressuring me to pressure other people. Seems legit.
Waiting for others is the most sensible thing to do. What is not sensible is trying to lynch without hard proof. If you really were town, you wouldn't be causing confusion and mass hysteria. Let's stop fighting each other and use logic to win this, guys.

[TheIrishPope]

Speed lynching on D1 of a two week game day is suspicious unless enough people are convinced a player is definitely scum. I don't trust Thor's reads well enough to go along with speed lynching any player this early.

This. We have no leads, we can't go lynching willy nilly. We literally wait to see who slips up, but don't force it upon them, because town newbies can look like scum accidentally. I also have to say good night to all. Sleep, rest, the time will come for Town to be victorious.

[TheIrishPope]

Oh hey guys. How's it going?
Approximately 27 hours left to replace Commandodude, it seems. sycorax, do you think setting yourself above suspicion is beneficial for you?
Sakura, what exactly do you want to know of me?

[TheIrishPope]

Gladly. Let me see:

Shawn: As I have expressed before, he has certainly acted scummy, but apparently my attitude is so similar to his that I merit the same number of votes. I have my eye on Shawn whom, as you have pointed out, is very oblivious to other people and only waits for his turn to speak instead of listening.

Thor: Him being an IC and all, he certainly does have more experience. It does not mean he is free of guilt, though. His vote on Shawn seemed very pro-Town, so I have nothing on him so far.

Sakura: My dear Sakura. After reading dozens and dozens of posts, I do not know what you are. You are certainly leaning towards Town, but maybe you are defending yourself very well. I cannot state anything bad of you at the moment.

Nekoko: Appears and attempts to take control of the thread. Interesting. She raised points I had already explained and seems a bit too paranoid. Having posted very little and then fading away, I have her as a Goon for the moment, a Mafia who is definitely affordable. This is not an OMGUS view, I am being completely impartial. Her behavior seems... odd.

Sycorax: Why, this is a peculiar player. Sycorax just recently changed his vote to implicate me into all of this. I do not understand why he chooses me over Shawn, however. He is probably just a good guy trying to get people nervous, even though as I said earlier, he sets himself as a cabal, wanting to represent the thread as a whole.

Commandodude: ?

MontyWhittaker: Posted exactly ONCE and hasn't been back. Incited discussion by drawing out Thor, but this one post gives me nothing. Monty is a Mafia Lurker, probably.

Marangal: Looks Town at the moment. Can't really say.

Ready for your wall of questions, my dear.

Sycorax, will my voting somehow prove I am town? Maybe us two putting Shawn at L-1 might help.

[TheIrishPope]

Here we go.
I am assuming that, if people want to see us lynched, we are acting scummy. If someone else had more votes, he could be seen as acting even scummier, or acting the scummiest. Since we have the same number of votes, it would seem logical that we are acting the same way, meriting people's votes.

Thor's vote on Shawn followed suit with what was said earlier. Shawn looked scummy, ergo, people should lynch him. However, he might be mafia pretending to be a Townie to blend in. This is where WIFOM ensues.

Neko seemed odd because of the reasons I stated. Posting and disappearing, and trying to control people's decisions.

Sycorax was lenient at first. Playing it cool, keeping it real, all that stuff. Suddenly, a vote appears with my name on it. A new side of sycorax emerges. This new facet is the de facto leader, some might say. In any case, this shift in sycorax's previous relaxing attitude has made me think.

It would be worthless at this time to vote for Monty, as no one will follow along with me. I have stronger suspicions on other people, and my original idea appears once again: I want everyone to post.

I do believe newbies make mistakes, however, we cannot say that a newbie only makes mistakes, or is characterized by his or her mistakes. If one bat eats fruit, do all bats eat fruit? A quickhammer is a possibility I am looking towards to, ideally after the appearance/replacement of Commandodude.

I do believe another wall of questions will appear, so I am cheerfully waiting, Sakura.

Sycorax:

That was the word I'm looking for. My apologies for confusing your gender.

Nekoko could be setting herself up to look scummy and get lynched. The other Mafia would hop on the BW, blending in and exterminating Town one by one. Just an idea of mine.

Everyone's job is to find and lynch scum. You asserting this does not relief you of suspicion. Above is an explanation of my view of you again, so maybe check that. If not: it is not what you seek, it's about how you seek it. You are trying to revolt this whole thing onto itself. That's just mean. When new information surfaces, I will vote. I just don't want to risk lynching a power role.

My suspicions have risen again: Why do you defend Neko?

[TheIrishPope]

Voting is extremely crucial! I'm just too paranoid to lynch a PR.
What about maybe acting scummish to draw out a newbie who wants to impersonate them?
I agree. I don't know what I was thinking. My apologies. Everyone is sleeping, so it's just me and you.
How you doin'?

PEdit: Marangal, have a nice vacation! In the other case, sucks to have limited access
People are just blindly following a cabal. They go without proof or logic. They ask me questions. I answer back reasonably. And yet, I am the scum. Someone says they want to lynch me, then everyone loses their minds.

Double PEdit: Vacation/Limited Access.

[TheIrishPope]

My vote's not on Irish just for the no vote though.

Is this supposed to mean you'll unvote me? Sorry, I'm a slow learner.

If I vote, am I inching more to town? Or do I just open myself to even more vulnerability?
You're setting your own rules, sycorax. That's what I meant when I spoke of you, the newly created cabal. Who is also a she

PEdit: So not voting is a scumtell. Nice.
Good you appeared, Monty. We were worried for you. I never gave out my reads until someone asked me to. I am not making anyone vote for anyone. I will vote when

I have more information damnit

[TheIrishPope]

Why, I think I did. Could you point out what is missing?
Welcome, Commandodude!

[TheIrishPope]

See what I mean, Sakura? I applied this same logic to Nekoko. Adding to my OMGUS:

MFoS: MontyWhittaker

Sycorax, but I did answer them. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p4897135

[TheIrishPope]

Sakura is a regular newbie. Thor is the IC, and Marangal and Nekoko are SEs.

[TheIrishPope]

Anyways, I have to go now, so don't ask me anything, I usally don't take the time to look through all the posts.

What. The. Fuck. This is what I meant by more information.

VOTE: TheIrishPope
This is L-1.
Start talking about who you wanna lynch.
Your list post was way utterly useless, everyone is null to town.

Again, talking about uselessness. You are very needy, aren't you?

VOTE: Commandodude

[TheIrishPope]

Hopefully you all see why I held my vote for a while. Sneaky bastard.
Sakura, please, your thoughts on this.

[TheIrishPope]

Trying to distract attention from you, eh? My god, have we revealed the scum? On D1?

Sycorax, I did I will repeat them again for good measure:

That was the word I'm looking for. My apologies for confusing your gender.

Nekoko could be setting herself up to look scummy and get lynched. The other Mafia would hop on the BW, blending in and exterminating Town one by one. Just an idea of mine.

Everyone's job is to find and lynch scum. You asserting this does not relief you of suspicion. Above is an explanation of my view of you again, so maybe check that. If not: it is not what you seek, it's about how you seek it. You are trying to revolt this whole thing onto itself. That's just mean. When new information surfaces, I will vote. I just don't want to risk lynching a power role.

My suspicions have risen again: Why do you defend Neko?

In my defense, I posted this before Commandodude appeared and Shawn defended his friends oh so joyfully, so I really have no suspicion on you

[TheIrishPope]

It is most likely you are defending him as your scum partner.
How would you know of his supposed stupidity?
I am voting to lynch Shawn D2 if i survive Night.

[TheIrishPope]

Only one IC bro. Why should an IC help you? You gave yourself away as scum. Logos is out.
How would an IC help you? By telling everyone "Guys, I have played more games, I know more"? Ethos is out.
With what would an IC help you? By saying "Guys, he's compassionate, don't vote for him"? Pathos is out.
The only thing left is mythos. Good luck with that.

According to my count, Commandodude is at L-1. Should we quickhammer or not? I'm not sure how to advance with this.
MontyWhittaker, I JUST VOTED.

[TheIrishPope]

Ethos is credibility. So no.
Explain why it is bad play to lynch someone who gave himself away as scummy.
And explain why it is bad play to lynch YOU, who defended him with such haste.

[TheIrishPope]

I'm done with this guy's nonsense.
Anyone else want to add something?

Sakura, my bad, Commando is at L-2 with Mod's post. Any thoughts on this?

[TheIrishPope]

D1 Lynch: Commandodude
D2 Lynch: Shawn

[TheIrishPope]

Sakura, I pretty much have that same list, substituting you for me. I suspected Sycorax but he's good for now.

[TheIrishPope]

If you could talk in full sentences, that'd be great. My name is not Irish Dude. I am also absolutely serious.
I am using logos to lynch the most apparent scum, Commandodude. I see nothing wrong in that.
So, if I am acting town, I should be lynched? According to you, I express this sentiment in all of my posts. Please, go ahead and quote them all. I'll wait.
My motive is the same. I want to eradicate scum.
Could you elaborate further on your trust in Commandodude and your apparent knowledge of him being "a weak townie"? You can't know how scum posts like. Not every scum posts alike. Every scum has its own mind.

[TheIrishPope]

My apologies. Logos is the principle of reason and judgment, associated with the animus.
What if he is disguising scum play with bad play?
Commandodude and Shawn are "bad play". Nice way to tell us who the scum is.
Do I even have to keep talking? We've won this. I'm going to sleep.

[TheIrishPope]

Posting from my phone, I agree with your logic.
UNVOTE: Commandodude
VOTE: Shawn

L-1. Gonna fakeclaim a PR, Shawny boy?

[TheIrishPope]

Well, it would seem to me we are at a crossroads. I will stay neutral for a while, given I have voted for the most obvious scum and people still see me as scum.
Also, if we do lynch Shawn and he flips town, remember I voted for Commandodude, and don't make up things.

UNVOTE: Shawn

[TheIrishPope]

If you are so confident about your reads, please go on and tell us who the scum is. Here's the catch: GIVE REASONS.

[TheIrishPope]

Wait what? Look at completed newbie games, not every IC was mafia. Role assignments are completely random; being an IC doesn't change that.

[TheIrishPope]

Sakura, how you doin'?

[TheIrishPope]

As always, I do suspect lurking/disappearing.
I withdrew my vote because Marangal wanted an opportunity. I gave her a chance. Also, if Shawn is quickhammered and flips town, the last vote and possibly myself would be the next suspects. I just want to stay neutral at the moment, you know? It is, after all, D1, and we have 12 days. Do you now understand why I withheld my vote until Commandodude's arrival? Also, after new information, could you give me your reads?

Shawn, I respect your courage to vote for Monty. I understand your motivation, but could you write it out for everyone else?

[TheIrishPope]

I wanted to stay neutral. Like, you know, before Commandodude arrived. And that worked out well, no?
However, I do agree with your logic. Pressure is the basis of Mafia.
VOTE: Shawn

[TheIrishPope]

Well... I want to lynch him because he appears scummy.

[TheIrishPope]

Not disagreeing with you, but i would like to know from your PoV why he's scum.

For the same reasons you and Nekoko have stated. I agree with your logic. Defending with such haste and confidence could be a newbie mistake, but I won't take chances.

That doesnt work Sakura, you cant say quickhammerer's are scum.

Actually moving my vote around is townie, scum dont want to move cause PRESSURE like this.
Town dont care, I dont care.

Irish, do you care more about your image or more about lynching mafia?
Irish is the epitome of caring about his image, look at his recent posts. He wants to 'stay neutral', he is worried that if I flip town, he would be 'implicated'. Yeah town dont care about shit like that.
Fuck everyone and everything else, I wanna lynch this dude.
UNVOTE: Monty
VOTE: Irish

This is literally an OMGUS vote. I have to care about both, especially on D1, where we are inquiring and snooping around. Could you explain why Town is not worried with their image? I don't think you're making sense here, Shawn.

[TheIrishPope]

Shawn, so you claim to know more than the IC. Interesting.
Tunneling, in this context, can mean focusing on one player or one situation and disregarding everything else.

[TheIrishPope]

Sakura, Shawn is town. Stop this TvT now.

What makes you say that?
Monty I see you lurking about

[TheIrishPope]

Oh sorry, what was the question?

[TheIrishPope]

Shit guys, I had the weirdest dream.
Anywho, good discussion.
I am changing my vote due to new information, and me agreeing on the soundness of your logic. I see nothing wrong in that. Could you please elaborate on that?
I'll be here for 45 minutes from this post on, and then come back at around 2:30 UTC-4:30

[TheIrishPope]

Next to no content? Are you saying I haven't contributed to the game at all?

[TheIrishPope]

Sakura, I assume your views on Commandodude/shawn have changed. What are your new thoughts on this?

[TheIrishPope]

Why do you want to know? how about you give me your thoughts on it? So far you seem to be relying a lot on my logic (or everyone's for that matter) to make decissions, while giving very few info yourself. So in this case i wanna hear from you first, before i give you my thoughts.

To get a better understanding of people's opinions. No need to lash out at me like that.
Gladly. Shawn and Commandodude have been... Peculiar characters since the start of the game. Commandodude's abrupt arrival shocked me, and his next posts merited a vote from me. Shawn defends Commandodude honorably with much confidence, which also made me suspect him. 80% scum Commandodude, 83.3% scum Shawn, 53% both of them make up the team. Is that enough, or do you need me to elaborate further?

[TheIrishPope]

Commandodude explicitly said he did not want questions. He wanted to detour attention from himself.
What made me think about Shawn's defending was his eagerness and confidence. He is so sure Commandodude is town, but with no definitive proof. Shawn is just relying on pathos, which is not very convincing in itself. Maybe he saw that his partner needed some heat off of him, and decided to take action. It's not what he does, but how he does it. Repetition, caps lock, and calling people names does make me ponder: is Shawn a really bad scum, or a really bad townie?
This is why I'm not saying "shawn is scum I'm 100% sure"

[TheIrishPope]

Pathos is English
Pathos is appeal to emotion, which is generally a logical fallacy.
So if I retract a vote and stay neutral, I would appear more Town? I'm not seeing how agreeing with what you say is harmful.

[TheIrishPope]

Sure, but I'm just saying in general. Marangal, are you out of V/LA? Or is it tomorrow?
There's also a lesser known one, mythos, which is traditional beliefs of the people.

[TheIrishPope]

My apologies. I will simplify my language from now on.
Sounds good, Marangal. Can the tag be removed or does it peel off automatically?

[TheIrishPope]

It's strange that many people have not posted much despite not being V/LA, like sycorax, Thor, Nekoko, etc. The only people who are active, so to speak, are Marangal, Sakura, Shawn, and Commandodude to an extent.

[TheIrishPope]

Why, of course, but maybe dropping in to say your opinion about something or just saying hi doesn't take much trouble. SE and IC are very busy roles, but the newbies shouldn't have trouble with stopping by every once in a while.

[TheIrishPope]

Why, I do agree this is a nice post, Sakura. Which one started your suspicion on me to isolate my posts? It seems interesting that YOUR thoughts change every hour.

[TheIrishPope]

My apologies. It is quite a long story. You could say my first language was Mandarin, but I have long forgotten it. I learnt English, Spanish, and Italian practically simultaneously, so this is probably the reason why you doubt my English skills.

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.

Why do you suspect MM?

Sakura, if there's no Doc, then there is a Cop or a Jailkeeper.

[TheIrishPope]

I'm assured town because I am town. Simple. No one here is voting for me because of the scum we are aware of (this excludes Shawn, an OMGUS vote).
I am not sure about Commando though. I think that, if we lynch Shawn, we can know Commandodude's alignment.

[TheIrishPope]

Can I tell you why?
Thing is, the fad of "hating on Irish" kind of faded away, and no one is voting to lynch me because I am contributing correctly to the game and not fucking up.

Shawn, WIFOM can never ever ever ever be forgotten. I can't assume you are careless, and then dismiss you being scum. I have to think in every direction. This 83.3% is what holds my vote on you.

[TheIrishPope]

Shawn and Sakura now love each other. And share the same word, fascinating. Interesting. I thought scum didn't have daytalk
Sakura, what would you consider contribution? Everyone is claiming Town, that's the point of the game, so I don't see what's weird about me stating it.
Shawn, I am not saying you are scum. That's why I put a percentage. I am saying you look like scum, you act like scum, but I am open to different options.
I don't understand why you think I am sheeping Thor. He voted for his own reasons, and I voted for mine. Everyone voting for Shawn must be sheeping Thor, then? You make no sense.

[TheIrishPope]

To my understanding, Thor voted because you looked scummy and avoided questions. I voted because you defended Commando despite him being obviously scummy.

So you caught me lying = you are town? That makes no sense
What is your question exactly? Why I lied?

What. You are admitting to lying. In a game where liars are SEVERELY PUNISHED. Like, chop your balls off punished.

[TheIrishPope]

Sakura, my darling, I understand your frustration. I can't vote for you because Shawn will give us more information. Would you want me to make a case on Shawn? Seems unnecessary at the moment. The point of the game is in fact killing the other side, but how can we accomplish that, you say? Why, by voting and being sophisticated about it. Shawn is doing the exact opposite, still casting an OMGUS vote at this stage, and changing his votes ans suspicions in quick succession. What other arguments do you need?

Shawn, holy fuck, you just admitted to lying.

[TheIrishPope]

Look at Sakura, it's an anime character
Well well well, if Shawn is claiming Vanilla Townie, and we gain a great deal of information out of his lynching, I say we policy lynch.

[TheIrishPope]

Wiki: Most commonly, it describes the lynch of a player who is not found to be particularly scummy, but because the player's bad play will hurt the town later on.

Me: If someone claims VT, we should lynch him. If he is scum, perfect! If he is town, no PRs were lost and we gain more information on either case. <----- I read this somewhere (probably the wiki) but I can't find it now.

[TheIrishPope]

Half of everyone who signed up has participated actively. MM was more active in V/LA than she is now. Syco and Nekoko have been gone for a couple of days, Thor just drops in to insult Shawn, Monty is now just participating a bit, and it seems Shawn ragequit.
This game has certainly been entertaining, but we need more participation.

[TheIrishPope]

I can't really talk about the absent guys so far, but I can talk about you three. Shawn admitted to lying and you and I retaliated quite quickly, heightening our suspicions. Shawn is at L-1 right now, and I will be suspicious of the last vote unless they make a good case. Monty is now participating, which is good. He is suspicious of Shawn, and wants a more in-depth explanation from him. Sakura, you follow the "Lynch all Liars" policy, which is not effective in every case, but Shawn's following posts have added to his scumminess, which is part of your vote on him. So, a quick summary: Shawn will be lynched this day, I will suspect the final voter unless a good reason appears, Monty is reasonable but null, and Sakura, I see you are scumhunting effectively. Don't fuck it up.

[TheIrishPope]

I wouldn't know, I'm not looking at other people's games.
Why do you think they are town? What do you see in them?
Of course I will be suspicious if someone hammers without a good case. Everyone who has voted for Shawn has expressed their case completely and thoroughly, so it would be weird if the last vote came rapidly and without a base.
IIoA isn't necessarily a towntell.
And you vote me because I have suspicions on someone? Real smart, MM.

[TheIrishPope]

I was talking about Shawn's IIoA.
What exactly is scummy about what I say or do?

[TheIrishPope]

Shawn comments on the inactive people, though he is doing IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis). Hell, looking through his Iso, he's been doing IIoA all game.

What does this mean, then?
You are using Shawn's tactic of "omg u r useless u r scum"
What would you say is "content" and "original thought"? Everyone has a different view on it.

[TheIrishPope]

Got it!
WIFOM? Really? You are resorting to that?
I repeat:
You are using Shawn's tactic of "omg u r useless u r scum"
What would you say is "content" and "original thought"? Everyone has a different view on it.

[TheIrishPope]

I was the one who voted on Commandodude first, and Shawn as well, so I don't see how I lack originality. How am I not posting my own content? You ask for reads, I give them. And for giving reads, I'm scum. Great.

[TheIrishPope]

Shawn! Defend thyself!
Oh right, he's sleeping. Fuck.
Commandodude, how will you proceed?

[TheIrishPope]

Then we play the waiting game.
The most boring game in the history of games.

[TheIrishPope]

Interesting question indeed. If he is town, Commandodude is most certainly town as well, and I would be lost. Possible: Thor, Nekoko, Sycorax, in no particular order.
And you, Monty?

[TheIrishPope]

I thought we were past silly claims, Sakura. I could easily name you my next scumspect for the same reasons.

[TheIrishPope]

All fun comes to a close eventually... it seems Sakura is eager to end it fast.
I understand your suspicions. Nekoko's appearance and disappearance strikes me as odd. I did not think of checking Thor's games, will do that now what can you relate from his past games and this one?

[TheIrishPope]

Shawn! You're awake! Tell us about Commandodude's intent to hammer you.

[TheIrishPope]

Hmm.
I do believe you are scum. That's why I voted for you.
If you're town... play better next time.
Monty is hard to read. His intentions are good, but his actions are doubtful. The question is: do the ends justify the means?

[TheIrishPope]

Well, to answer your question, Shawn, the reason my vote is not on Monty is that my goal is to play to support my win condition. No matter what, a self-vote will not help in accomplishing that.

TIP, what do you mean, "do the ends justify the means"? What ends do you specifically object to?

Well, the ends for you is lynching scum. The means is questioning everyone, setting yourself above suspicion. I do not object to your ends, but I object to your means.

[TheIrishPope]

So you caught me lying = you are town? That makes no sense
What is your question exactly? Why I lied?

Shawn, admitting to lying. And he's lying again, saying he did not lie.

Sakura, I have no idea which questions I didnt answer. HELP ME OUT HERE. Thanks for your continued

cooperation

FTFY. Shawn, did you forget how to English?

[TheIrishPope]

Nekerker. Welcome back.
You think you can get away with two lines? Please, add more to the discussion here. Explain your reasons.

[TheIrishPope]

Crap, my strongest town read was on Sakura.
sycorax and Nekoko seem cleared to me. sycorax is actively scumhunting and contributing immensely to the game. She also looks for doubtful posts and gives insight to the thread overall. Nekoko is playing aggressively, which might be the push we need for the real scum to come out. However, her lack of posts does trouble me. Nekoko, you are about 70% town, so don't screw with my trust.
Marangal and Monty are my strongest scum reads. Monty lurks way too much and is not really contributing to the game... I want to see more posts, more actions. Marangal uses sarcasm to deviate attention away from herself, and writes a lot but is known for hopping into BWs, presumably to blend in. She mainly asks questions, but only contributes occasionally in the game. They are both people I want to look further into.
Thor is null-scum to me, because he pushed Shawn who

conveniently

flipped VT, and uses MM's sarcasm bit. PEdit: and he votes for me on accounts of "Meh."
Commandodude was defended by Shawn, but Shawn flipped town so I'm letting him be.

TL;DR: sycorax, Nekoko, Commandodude, Thor, Marangal, Monty -- from towniest to scummiest
VOTE: MontyWhittaker

[TheIrishPope]

We don't know if there is a cop, Commando.
I did NOT say you and Monty are scum team. I did not say vote hopping (for example, Shawn), I said joining existing BWs.
Where are your suspicions, MM?

[TheIrishPope]

OMGUS much?
If you had limited time, you shouldn't have singed up for a game in which you need dedication.
Scum motivation behind any and all actions?

[TheIrishPope]

Well, a townie was lynched and Doc died, so you might have new suspicions.

[TheIrishPope]

Sorry, my actions. I also forgot to mention you dropped the hammer on Shawn without asking for suspicions and whatnot. Nekoko, what did I just say? Don't mess with someone whose trust you have. You made a good case against Shawn, and he was being pretty silly in his play, being resentful and all. He flipped town, and you are not the most cleared to me right now, but your play can get the real scum out now, I suppose. For now, you can really push and focus on one player, now that we have 7, a fairly small number. Which are your suspicions?

[TheIrishPope]

Putting Shawn at L-1 isn't enough evidence?

[TheIrishPope]

Never seen any suspicious post from Thor665. He obviously made a good case against shawn.
His scum hunting looks natural and doesn't look fake so I'm inclined to think he's town.

I actually like her vote on Shawn. It doesn't look suspicious to me. I don't agree with TIP's
claim that MM joined the wagon to blend in or something. Voting for the player she
previously thought was town would actually make her suspicious to other players so she's town.

And commandodude is probably noob town.

So I actually think scum could be here [MontyWhittaker, sycorax, TheIrishPope] by PoE.

TheIrishPope is my top suspect though.

VOTE: Nekoko

[TheIrishPope]

Sycorax (or Sycorax's replacement now) is pretty much confirmed town. She has been laying low for a while, but hasn't Commandodude done the same? Using that same logic, sycorax should be noob town as well...
And no, it's not OMGUS. I want reasons. Not just saying "lol i hate TIP but i have no reasons and i won't vote him lol"

[TheIrishPope]

Such as...
You scum have a really horrible tendency of not giving reasons.

[TheIrishPope]

Yep, this is one of the last Newbie games using the 20f4. Welcome, Mathdino.

[TheIrishPope]

Well, so much for the most active game. How's everyone doing?

[TheIrishPope]

1. Voting does nothing, really. An intent to vote is the same as a vote in either case. It brings pressure.
2. Of course I was afraid Shawn was town, as you might be town, or Monty might be town, or Dino might be town, or anyone might be town.
3. I suspect everyone at any given time. Town reads don't relief you of suspicion.
4. I don't really like how you list things... This makes no sense. My opinions affect the game somehow? Just ignore them if you want.
5. #736 was awful. You kind of fucked it up, sis.

[TheIrishPope]

This whole day happened... Over 60 posts have been made since I said that. I'm not allowed to change opinions?
That's rude of you.

[TheIrishPope]

I thought I did in 775, but here we go again:
1. Nekoko gives reasons, albeit faint ones, to have a town read on some, but gives no reasons for scum reads on the others. She believes anyone who does not fit in this category must fall in another. This is the Black and White logical fallacy.
2.

That is I think if shawn flips scum, tip is probably too

What happened to this? In my eyes, Nekoko now seems too inconsistent.

[TheIrishPope]

A claim is where I say my role?

[TheIrishPope]

But the Doctor is gone... from a game theory standpoint, is this bad or good?

[TheIrishPope]

Commando = Regfan now
Welcome Regfan!

[TheIrishPope]

Hmmm....
I have never played as scum. I still could give you town ones. Is that alright with you?

[TheIrishPope]

Spoiler:

http://www.cracked.com/forums/topic/129 ... ation/2220

Starts at reply 2226
Check backwards and forward because I have another game done as well and a current one (where my role cannot be disclosed)
I know everyone is checking it right now

You really surprised me with this very elegantly orchestrated post, and the follow up scum one, and I might have to say I disagree just a tad on Monty. I am not completely sure, but something is off about him.
Will you vote, or will you develop reads first?

[TheIrishPope]

Irish, is there any way to ISO at the site you linked me to? ie. See all your posts in the game on one page.

Sorry, there isn't, because the site isn't built around Mafia (although you can hit my profile name and there should be a View Posts button there)
In any case, I HIGHLY suggest you read all games, they're amazing

MM, I have two questions for you. But please, answer them separately and do not let them blend. It is of uttermost importance for the grandiose development of this game.

QUESTION NUMBER ONE: From a theoretical standpoint, you being the SE and all, what would be the best way to interact with Nekoko's claim and why?

QUESTION NUMBER TWO: Being a player in this game, what will be the ideal way to react and proceed with Nekoko's claim and why?

I suppose everyone can answer, especially the IC, but I want MM's say on this.

I ask because I have never been against a claim, so I'm not sure how to proceed.

I definitely am the best personification of a noob.

[TheIrishPope]

I never said I've played amazing games...
I ask to get an SE point of view and your point of view.

[TheIrishPope]

May the IC or SE explain what counter-claim is to me
Thor was fairly inactive; I couldn't wait around with a deadline of two days.

[TheIrishPope]

I'm not the cop
But I'm not sure that Nekoko is the cop, nor why she would state it knowing there is no Doctor.

[TheIrishPope]

I needed to be clear on things before saying anything. Why why why would someone claim with Doctor gone? It seems like a waste of a PR, unless Nekoko is lying to protect the real Cop/Jailkeeper.
Anything I say may and will be misconstrued by scum. Why, maybe you know Nekoko is lying because you are Cop/Jailkeeper but don't want to risk getting NKed.
I'm still not sure what motivated her to claim, though. Do you have any ideas, Reg?

[TheIrishPope]

So how do we proceed on this information?

[TheIrishPope]

I see what you mean. I was just curious really.
Hypothetically, if I counterclaim, would that be good for us or not?

[TheIrishPope]

So you're seriously talking about policy lynching because I'm a VT?

[TheIrishPope]

What am I lying about?

[TheIrishPope]

So I'm being voted on because people think I'm lying about being a VT...
Isn't that the whole point of the game? I would vote every one of you because I think the same. No one is a

confirmed

townie per se, so I don't see what's wrong with me asserting it. My vote is still on Nekoko because I do not believe her claim.

That

is a good reason to vote.

[TheIrishPope]

Of course, there aren't that many votes on you...

We do need to come to a consensus soon, if possible. We have just a day left.

Yeah, I'm at L-1.

Why don't you believe Nekoko's claim TIP? What about it makes you think it's false?

I don't think that it's false, I just don't believe her. It may be true, but there's no proof, after all. And I don't see the reason as to why she claimed with only two votes on her and with no Doctor alive.

[TheIrishPope]

No no no, au contraire my friend. I don't believe this claim, but it might be true. I do not think it is false. Thinking and believing are two different things. Read a book.
And exchanging getting lynched for getting NKed seems counterintuitive.

[TheIrishPope]

Stop it with the English as a second language bit
If we're seriously discussing about semantics, here we go.

Think:

1. To have or formulate in the mind.
2.
a. To reason about or reflect on; ponder:

Think how complex language is. Think the matter through.

b. To decide by reasoning, reflection, or pondering:

thinking what to do.

Believe:

1. To accept as true or real:

Do you believe the news stories?

2. To credit with veracity:

I believe you.

I formulate in my mind that it may be true, but I do not accept it as true or real.

[TheIrishPope]

What do you want answered, MM?

[TheIrishPope]

Great game guys, had a lot of fun!
The scum QT is so embarrassing for me I had a lot of fun playing as scum in my first game, thanks everyone!