Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Sakura Hana]

Hello, everyone, this is my first game so i'll probably be relying a lot on the IC

[Sakura Hana]

##Vote: Sakura Hana
why would you need help from the IC? What do you think the IC is gonna do that would help you?

Because im new here, and there are a lot of things i don't know. also since this is RVS i guess

VOTE: Shawn

for not having an avatar

[Sakura Hana]

yay
Um
so lynch dudes.

Commandodude.
talk

Also from your first post... is there something between you and commandodude?

[Sakura Hana]

What do you not know? like why would the IC be able to help you?

Obviously some terminology

[Sakura Hana]

Does what i state on the first post have to be important?

[Sakura Hana]

None, also you havent replied to my question yet.

[Sakura Hana]

i meant the question on #14

[Sakura Hana]

Well, sorry i didn't know that pointing out the fact that it was my first game was bad, but since first posts are important then this bothers me:

yay
Um
so lynch dudes.

Why so eager to lynch someone?

[Sakura Hana]

The IC hasn't posted actually, only an SE that seems willing to help out. But from 2 posts it's really hard to think of something so he gives me a null read.
And yes, if we no lynch is bad , but a quick lynch is equally bad, we need to discuss more.

[Sakura Hana]

EBWOP

My bad, she instead of he, just realized Marangal was female.

[Sakura Hana]

Hmm idk, he could have just posted to introduce himself and go to sleep. I still think it's very early to get any decent reads on those 2, i can't even read you at this point, since i'm not sure how serious you were with those questions during RVS.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't know if we're out of RVS already or not, but i wouldn't like to leave an RVS vote around so.

UNVOTE: Shawn

[Sakura Hana]

Oh i thought we were out of RVS, so im voting Shawn again for not having an avatar
VOTE: Shawn

[Sakura Hana]

why do you think it wasn't random?

[Sakura Hana]

He's been silly since he questioned me needing an IC help, i thought he was being silly for the sake of being silly tho, since that's how RVS begins i thought?

[Sakura Hana]

And thor, if you're isn't random then doesn't that make your vote baseless?

[Sakura Hana]

EBWOP

If you're = If your vote

I should start proofreading my posts from now on...

[Sakura Hana]

you can use bold tags too if it makes it easier for you.

[Sakura Hana]

Shawn: I'm pretty sure he mentioned that just to teach us about the RVS

[Sakura Hana]

Just for clarification, my first post is just to mention im new, but i'm no way using it to justify my actions, my actions may be judged at your discretion.

[Sakura Hana]

Then can you tell me in what way my posts look scummy to you?

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah, but the fact that thor has mentioned his vote on me isn't random, yet he hasn't provided any evidence as to how i look scum bothers me
UNVOTE: Shawn

FoS: thor

[Sakura Hana]

Because im not 100% sure on it, just find you suspicious

[Sakura Hana]

Various reasons:
1. I don't want to risk a BW and some scum quickhammering you.
2. If you aren't scum and get quickhammered then maf gets the upper hand.
3. Your posts are hard to read for me, but i don't see how you out of the blue vote me without posting quotes on how i'm looking scum, if it's not a random vote.
4. Voting you would be an OMGUS vote, wouldn't it?

[Sakura Hana]

I guess you're right
VOTE: thor

[Sakura Hana]

Why do you think Shawn is scum trying to look town as opposed to hyper nervous new town trying to be town?
I can't get a clear read there, myself.

Can I take this as your declaration of your explanation?

[Sakura Hana]

yay
Um
so lynch dudes.

Commandodude.
talk

This makes me alittle suspicious about Shawn and Commandodude, but my vote isn't moving atm because thor hasn't explicitly said what is that he sees on me that makes me scum, yet he votes me.

[Sakura Hana]

tl:dr - this entire commentary block is all about introducing myself as the IC, blathering about my duties, and offering a basic idea of some of the strategy of the RVS. If this interests you, please read on (especially if this is your first time playing here) if not, feel free to skip.

Spoiler: IC Intro

===========================================================================================

Greetings,

I am Thor665 and I am the Inexperienced Challenged (IC) player of this group. What this means is first and foremost - I am here to play this game with you in a way that will show you what it is like to play on Mafiascum.net. I am here to win and should be treated as such.

My goals and the rules governing my actions are covered in this handy article: Being a good IC
That article is part of our amazing MafiaWiki System. I *highly* recommend this system as a good way to get your feet wet and to find out what a lot of the common abbreviations mean. There is a lot of play strategy discussed in there too. A lot of players consider that advice almost all outdated now. I don't recommend trying to run verbatim with anything there, but a lot of the basic advice is very good to at least be aware of as it can help you avoid blatant pitfalls as you become familiar with the game play here.

Now, as an IC I am here as a resource for you to ask questions of concerning game theory. I WILL NOT lie about game theory answers and will answer them to the best of my ability. I will also offer you the following quick pieces of advice;

1. Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is)
2. This site frowns on lying if you are a vanilla town role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end.
3. It's a game - have fun.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).

Vote: Sakura Hana

This looked like a random vote to me, since you explained RVS, i figured as much but:

It's not a question of if 'we' are out of the RVS, the question is are 'you' out of the RVS.

lso we can then get into 'what is RVS for' natch.

Generally when people say 'I'm out of RVS' and then unvote and vote no one else...then they are not out of RVS because they're still in initial scumhunting mode and have no real scumreads. When you place a vote for real reasons you are generally out of the RVS. Also, you should be asking yourself if your RVS is 'of any help at all' but I'm starting to wax philosophic at this point and don't really feel like writing a treatise.

I'm out of the RVS now.

Edit:

@Shawn - You're right, I am not voting totally randomly, what a shock. I mean, clearly e're all supposed to just roll dice and vote like that and then sit and stare at each other shrugging our shoulders and nervously giggling like two kids attempting their first sexual experience in the back of an old Jetta.

I'm now content to lynch you too just for being silly.

This was the reason for my suspicion on you. But after re-reading your post i get what you meant now, so your vote does have valid input and that means i lost my reason for thinking you're scum at this point.

UNVOTE: thor

No leads now, because i got a null read on everyone here atm.

[Sakura Hana]

I actually wanted to see your reaction to my post and the unvote, but i still can't get a clear read on that post, and i can't tell if you're trying to hint me at something or mislead me, i'm gonna check some ISOs and see if i can get some reads

[Sakura Hana]

hmm, after re-reading im kinda wondering what Pope and sycorax posts i don't get why Shawn is suspicious other than the fact that he attacked me fevereshly, which could easily be a reaction test to get scum/town tells out of me.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, the person who votes first is generally scum. So I do believe he is most likely mafia.

which could easily be a reaction test to get scum/town tells out of me.

[Sakura Hana]

What does YMMV mean?

[Sakura Hana]

Ah i see thanks. As on the 1st post = scum thing, if that was widely known scum could just wait and let town get the first vote so the town sees them as scum, so it's not a reliable tactic for finding scum imo.

[Sakura Hana]

it's fine, at this point in the game anyone can be scum, so im in the same situation, i dont even know where to start looking.
As to where is everyone, well it's sunday they're probably out having fun and haven't checked their PMs, my guess is that unless someone replaces out Monday we will have more activity.

[Sakura Hana]

He didn't clam having mafia experience, in fact he stated being new as well as i did. Did i miss something in his posts?

[Sakura Hana]

Ah nvm, he did specify having experience outside of MS

[Sakura Hana]

If i thought someone was scum i'd have FoS'd them by now, or voted them rather, but why are you worried about us ganging up on you?

[Sakura Hana]

Got it mod! Thanks.

sycorax, I will follow your advice. I will stop worrying. I'm confident Town will win this and the scum will die. My newbie paranoia is surfacing.
Thor, do you know something we do not? You seem a bit too eager to lynch me.

What gives you such confidence?

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, do you not believe in the power of the town?
Thor, would you care to explain why people should lynch me with such haste?

The thing is that your previous post gave me the impression that you were trying too hard to appear town.

[Sakura Hana]

when the ammount of votes required for lynch are reached, day ends and person gets lynched regardless of how much time left the day has, then night begins.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't see any issue on him at this point? he explained the RVS as his IC role is supposed to, but he never mentioned that his vote was random at any point, did he?

[Sakura Hana]

From my PoV that was a reaction test, i dont think scum would initiate a reaction test, they would usually hide and join a BW when they see the chance.

I'm really back to Shawn looking scummier than other players so far. he's very eager to get someone lynched in spite of the long time frame we have.

He has been eager since the start of the day, but it could also be a newbie player being eager to lynch someone and hope for them being scum.

Other than that, yeah i'd agree it looks scummy, but i'll give him the benefit of doubt until i see more posts from him.

[Sakura Hana]

Because there's not much to go on, and we need more discussion, we got plenty of time to discuss and find scumtells, why would we want to risk a mislynch?

Also Nekoko i see you lurking.

[Sakura Hana]

Shawn is probably number one in my scum list.

Then why aren't you voting for him? (inb4 you are and i haven't noticed)

[Sakura Hana]

Actually, i forgot to read something that i noticed on ISO on Thor when i wanted to check the reasoning for his vote. And i quite agree.

VOTE: IrishPope

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

Care to explainthis post?

[Sakura Hana]

Considering Irish is at L-2 now, I hope we get a better explanation from him.

[Sakura Hana]

WIFOM logic just leads to circles and circles, imo. Shawn does look scummy indeed, but the fact that Irish has to keep reminding us how towny he is sounds off to me.

[Sakura Hana]

Well consdering everyone's coming with their reads, i'll go with mine.

Shawny: Can't get a clear read since he's new, his ISO #0 bothers me, but it could've been a joke for his first post. Then on ISO #1 decides to attack me due to my introduction post (gauging reactions perhaps?) but looks weird considering his ISO #10 hints to him considering first posts being important, and asking specifically commando from the get go, cool name? im not buying it. on his #11 he seems eager to lynch people because "If we no lynch town loses", yet nothing says that because a lynch takes a week or a day doesnt necessarily end in NL, then decides to attack Thor due to him not stating reasons, yet the reason was stated (which i failed to read but found it after), and asks us to quickly hammer him on his ISO #22, then suddenly flops on ISO #25, but doesnt change his vote?.

Sycorax: Null. Seems to be answer more questions about mafia play than about reads, can't get a clear read, he only starts answering when interrogated due to him defending Neko, but was he really defending her (him?), his ISO #22 shows suspicion on Thor for speed lynching? not sure, then on ISO #26 he moves suspicion back to Shawny for the same reason.

Thor: Leaning town he looks legitimately scumhunting via testing reactions, as shown with his vote against me on his ISO #0 with explanation on ISO #3. His reason for voting Irish on ISO #12 looks ok to me, since what Irish said looks like a scumslip. Answering questions and continuasly asking them, looks a-ok in my book.

Neko: Null, haven't seen much from her (him?) other than reads on people, can't tell much at this point.

Shawn: Leaning scum, constantly attacking and aiming for a quick lynch, quick lynches easily lead to mislynches specially without much info, that looks pretty scummy to me, you could argue that Thor is doing the same, but he's also scumhunting, so i'm more inclined to believe his actions are more town oriented than shawn, who just seems to want to find a target now.

MM: Leaning town, the main argument against him was defending Neko, but i don't really see how Neko being absent until right now is any indication of scumness when the game had only been going for like half a real life day?

IrishPope: Thinking scum, if you're town you don't really need to keep mentioning every single post, most relevant ones are his ISOs #10, #13, and #14, also his ISO #5 bothers me, someone's scum because they dont look scum? nice logic. Also ISO #23

If I was scum, why would I not vote?

more likely waiting to join a BW when you see everyone going into it, so your partner can hammer?, looks to me like you should at least be voting to gauge reactions so you can get reads.

PEdit: wow a lot of new posts while i was typing that X_X will read them now.

[Sakura Hana]

btw off-topic but neko, should i call you a he or a she.

[Sakura Hana]

And where are you gonna draw that logic from if not from pressuring and getting reads or possibly a scumslip or two from people? if we all stay quiet, arms crossed then night will come with a NL and then mafia gets a free kill

[Sakura Hana]

Ehh can't really tell at this point, both Irish and Shawn look scummy to me, but i can't tell who's more scummy, if super extremly careful towny scumslipped irish, or super aggresive quick lynch now shawn.

P-Edit: Shawn you should really start reading posts...

[Sakura Hana]

Shawn, it doesnt help the town the fact that you aren't even reading and are just pushing for a Lynch, which could easily lead to Mislynch.
I agree with Thor. You're being way too obvious at this point, and if you flip town then im gonna flip a table.
UNVOTE: IrishPope
VOTE: Shawn

P-Edit: And now you shift your post, somewhere else?

Ok now im 100% sure you're scum!

[Sakura Hana]

You're at L-2 now, guess it's time you give some explanations, if you have some.

[Sakura Hana]

you keep flip flopping your vote, and you even admitted that your last vote was random to someone just because they hadn't posted, are you really just randomly attacking lurkers?, you try to say you're scumhunting, but your play is being detrimental to the town because:
1. You aren't reading and you ask questions that you can easily find answers to in ISO.
2. Your motivations for attacks are pretty baseless, yet you claim that we are the ones not being baseless, explanations to why your attacks dont have much base and reasonings have been provided multiple times.
3. You just want to lynch some random person and quickly, which increases the odds of a MisLynch.

[Sakura Hana]

1. It's anti-town
2. Did you even read my post with my reads, i give plenty of examples there.
3. It's not even 72 hours which is when you usually request a prod, he's very likely away during the weekend, it'd be odd if past tomorrow he still hasn't posted yet, heck we dont even know if he has confirmed even.

[Sakura Hana]

I need to go to sleep now guys, good night

[Sakura Hana]

Shawn, im actually quite interested in knowing your reads atm, and probably explanations on your behavior so far, which may or may not change my current stance on you. You seem to be interested in knowing everyone's standing on things yet, you dont provide much of your own.

[Sakura Hana]

If irish is scum on your radar then why are you not voting him instead of comandodude? This bothers me.
What are your reasonings for your reads?

[Sakura Hana]

In fact, i haven't even seen you vote Irish throughout the course of the game.

[Sakura Hana]

Absentee as in not posting or not voting. And the way Shawn flips votes for no apparent reason still bothers me, specially his last flip, attacking the only person who hasn't posted whom we don't even know if they confirmed or not, instead of the guy that posted once and dissapeared again. Not providing reasons for why he thinks Irish is scum looks like he's turning him into a scapegoat.

My vote stays where it is for now, but i still got my suspicions on Irish.

[Sakura Hana]

Tho the fact that Irish wants to hear from

everyone

before voting bothers me as well, it's kind of the same as how Shawn seems like he's looking for stances on everyone without giving his own, in both cases they look like scum who want to see who the town sees more as town to check who will they hit during the night.

Even then, all Shawn has been doing and proposing is pretty much anti-town, he asks lots of questions and he never answers, fails to read posts even when shown in his face, and is eager for a quicklynch (tho Thor is eager too, but at least he does look legitly scumhunting to me)

[Sakura Hana]

Considering the time they went to sleep, and the fact that there werent any new posts for a few hours, i'd think that we all are around the same timezone, which means that people at this time are in class/working.

Fun fact: I'm at work right now

[Sakura Hana]

Your stances on everyone up to this point for example

[Sakura Hana]

but apparently my attitude is so similar to his that I merit the same number of votes.

Why does the number of votes merit that you 2 are viewed in the same way?, if anything it shows the ammount of people suspicious of you.

His vote on Shawn seemed very pro-Town

Why did it look very pro-town?

Sakura: My dear Sakura. After reading dozens and dozens of posts, I do not know what you are. You are certainly leaning towards Town, but maybe you are defending yourself very well. I cannot state anything bad of you at the moment.

Fair enough

Her behavior seems... odd.

What parts of Neko's behavior seem odd to you?

he sets himself as a cabal, wanting to represent the thread as a whole.

How so?

Monty is a Mafia Lurker, probably.

Then why arent you voting him? maybe the pressure will make him pop out?

Maybe us two putting Shawn at L-1 might help.

This could easily set up for a quickhammer, which im not very fond of, considering even newbies can make such mistakes and with the ammount of people wanting a quicklynch today.

[Sakura Hana]

Suddenly, a vote appears with my name on it. A new side of sycorax emerges. This new facet is the de facto leader, some might say. In any case, this shift in sycorax's previous relaxing attitude has made me think.

And this is why voting people is important for discussion generation and scumhunting.

[Sakura Hana]

Nekoko could be setting herself up to look scummy and get lynched. The other Mafia would hop on the BW, blending in and exterminating Town one by one. Just an idea of mine.

I truly believe such an idea wouldn't work. Suiciding to make your partner look more town by jumping on the BW? If a scum is silly enough to pull this off, they are esentially reducing their chances to win, specially since we dont know what PRs are here, but if we have a cop and the cop scans them, it's over, while having a partner would extend the scum lifespan. Tho i wouldn't like to rely on any PR, since we don't know which PRs are around to begin with.

Additionally assuming somehow they hit a PR during the night, no one can ever be trusted 100%, and it's pretty easy to scumslip in the following day, hence earning a towny win instead of scum.

Which is why i'm inclined to believe a suicidal attempt on D1 isn't worth it, specially for the scum who are outnumbered to begin with.

[Sakura Hana]

Sorry, I feel so overwhelmed right now. I haven't posted because I either haven't had anything to add or it's already been posted by someone. For what it's worth, with so many votes in this game already, I feel like The Irish Pope has "suspicions" that he is leading people to vote toward, yet feels no conviction to vote for them himself. That is enough to warrant my vote:

VOTE: TheIrishPope

So you appear out of nowhere and suddenly join a BW.

FoS: MontyWhittaker

[Sakura Hana]

Commandodude, any reason behind your vote on me? You have barely talked or said anything, and then you just vote someone without reason. What gives?

[Sakura Hana]

Commandodude, any reason behind your vote on me? You have barely talked or said anything, and then you just vote someone without reason. What gives?

You dismissed the idea that the mafia could make a suicide attempt, thus making me think that you or your partner is about to attempt one. You are an IC(right?), so more people might belive you. There probably is a mafia IC to teach the mafia side how to play.

Nope, i'm new. There's only one IC in the game, and roles are assigned randomly, so there's as much chance for the IC being scum than anyone else. as there's also as much chance of me being scum as anyone else.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh my, i missed that syco, but i'm not sure whether he just wants to be passive, or is actually scumhunting with his statement. I got like 4 scum reads at the momment and i'm not sure where to take stance on X_X

[Sakura Hana]

Actually it's simpler than that, just click in Activity overview below page numbers and you can see activity (clicking on each user's number of posts brings their ISOs "Isolation" posts).

UNVOTE: Shawn
VOTE: commandodude

I'm not happy with days ending early, if someone quickhammers they're most certainly scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, I would call his approach aggressive and dismissive at the same time. If he hasn't time to play he can sub out.

Or replace out, if he's town this is very anti-town play.

P-Edit: Shawn: ^

[Sakura Hana]

Ok, i got it, Shawn and commandodude are scum, refer to shawn's very first post in the thread, and now he's defending him.

[Sakura Hana]

WIFOM. If he's acting like scum, then he's scum, town wouldn't act like scum so that we think that they are town acting like a scum, or that possibly it's scum acting like it's town that's acting like a scum.... see where this gets us? circles!

[Sakura Hana]

Oh and voting me without providing a reason until asked, and his reason is still very odd if you ask me. And then negating further questions towards him, why? what does he have to hide?

[Sakura Hana]

Lets lynch MM? I dont like nice people.

lol what a reason.

About MM, i already said my thoughts on her, you just didn't read them, as usual.

[Sakura Hana]

Tell me why wouldn't we lynch someone that's playing anti-town?

[Sakura Hana]

Only one IC bro. Why should an IC help you? You gave yourself away as scum. Logos is out.
How would an IC help you? By telling everyone "Guys, I have played more games, I know more"? Ethos is out.
With what would an IC help you? By saying "Guys, he's compassionate, don't vote for him"? Pathos is out.
The only thing left is mythos. Good luck with that.

According to my count, Commandodude is at L-1. Should we quickhammer or not? I'm not sure how to advance with this.
MontyWhittaker, I JUST VOTED.

As far as i've read on other threads while i was waiting to get into a game, normally one person says intent to hammer and asks for a claim then we proceed from there.
Quickhammering is pretty much when you drop the hammer without doing this (from what i understand)

[Sakura Hana]

I never said he was on L-1 in any case, i dont really have any thoughts, these 2 are just playing the most obvious anti-town play i have ever seen, they are very likely scum. Right now my reads are like this, from most town, to least.

Syco. (Most likely Town)
MM (Town)
Thor (Leaning Town)
Neko (Null)
Irish (Null)
Monty (Leaning Scum)
Shawn (Scum)
Commando Dude (Obvious Scum)

did i miss someone?

[Sakura Hana]

Oh my god you're right, it's totally not scum, he's obviously helping scum hunt and hides in the darkness! that's totally pro-town! I mean, pro-towns are obviously supposed to not discuss and not contribute to the thread, while they watch the scum who knows who the scum and town is attack each other! I would have never guessed!

[Sakura Hana]

And why do you trust him so much with such a few posts that he has made?

[Sakura Hana]

Yes irish, he already expressed in an earlier post that being town = being scum.

[Sakura Hana]

So are we going to babysit people for bad play? i thought we were playing here to win. If someone makes a mistake im certainly going to hold them for it if it gives me a scum read on them, and i'd expect you guys to do the same with me if i make a mistake.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm really speechless at this point...

[Sakura Hana]

So which do you think we should go after first, commandodude or Shawn, tho by your vote im guessing Shawn

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah i agree, Shawn is the more active and aggresive of the 2, tho im suspecting that comandodude living today, im gonna die during the night
well let's get the ball rolling
UNVOTE: Commandodude
VOTE: Shawn

If i'm counting right, this puts you at L-2

[Sakura Hana]

How about three lines why you are not? From you? I've already said why you've looked scummy or anti town in previous posts.

You really want me to say why Im not scummy? No innocent until proven guilty law thing? Is it that hard to consolidate your thoughts on me?
Scummy =/= antitown as I have said already.

3 lines why im scummy. Now.

Or you could easily be a scum pulling out a desperation move. I've already pointed out several posts ago why i found you scummy. This was before commandodude came into the picture, and you still refuse to read what i wrote?

[Sakura Hana]

Right now i'm starting to get suspicious of thor due to the fact that his activity seems lower than MM who is on V/LA yet he's not on V/LA himself, as i know scum also like to watch when Town is going to make a ML.

@MM: commandodude looks scummy to me because he comes out of nowhere and doesn't read all the posts, then votes me without giving a reason until asked, then says his reason is because i'm experienced (which is false),

then dissapears saying

don't ask me any questions

, if you're not scum, why do you have to hide?

[Sakura Hana]

There is almost 0% that commandodude is scum. Why would scum say all those things instead of just faking it? Town doesnt care what they look like and this looks really like commandodude cant give a fuck about how he looks.

Where do you draw this? why town doesn't care how they look like? why are you WIFOMing when someone's about to get lynched?

This just add onto my suspicions

[Sakura Hana]

Obv. town cares about not looking scum to their townmates as well, why? Because otherwise they'll get lynched, but most importantly town scumhunts and answers/asks questions, since discussion helps the town, If anything scum prefers to hide to not draw attention to them, specially when they don't know how to blend in or are confused as to how to pass by without being noticed. However you are right, commandodude could've been easily been mistaken as a newbie mistake, what got me was YOUR reaction towards the votes on him, not himself.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't think anyone in here would quick hammer without getting a claim first, besides, he was at L-2 not L-1

[Sakura Hana]

Also he is totally town.

Again, where are you drawing this conclusion from someone that refuses discussion, with his super short ammount of post i'd think he'd be a null read at best.


Quote tags fixed. ~Tierce

[Sakura Hana]

Ops, screwed up quote tags

Mod: Could you please fix the quote tags for me? i'm supposed to be quoting only shawn, not shawn quoting me

[Sakura Hana]

There are 3 experienced players in newbie games, 2 SEs and 1 IC, the IC just takes on the role of teaching us how to play and helping us with terminology, etc while at the same time playing his own role in the game. Role assignment is random (and lol at voting Thor just coz he's IC).

[Sakura Hana]

I really don't know what to think at this point, i haven't seen a reason to change my current reads, thor has been missing for almost 2 days, Commando and Monty have rarely posted, i don't really know where else to go from here. Why did you withdraw your vote from Shawn Irish?

[Sakura Hana]

The way Shawn keeps throwing votes just to get people in the thread is really bothering me tbh, but i kind of get a null feeling from that. Irish, so you jump into a BW, and then you go out to avoid "looking suspicious"? that's interesting, you know, we aren't going to get scumtells/slips unless we apply pressure right?

[Sakura Hana]

Besides if someone quickhammers and we hit a town, then we know they are scum.

[Sakura Hana]

At this point, no one should vote Shawn
without first stating an intent to hammer

Just quoting as a reminder.

[Sakura Hana]

Not disagreeing with you, but i would like to know from your PoV why he's scum.

[Sakura Hana]

Indeed, i'd say Town should be worried about their image, because if the Town sees them as scum, mislynch happens, and considering scum knows who's scum and Town they'll obv. shoot Town during the night, next day Town is 2 heads down, just because one Towny didnt worry about their image.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh welcome back Thor

[Sakura Hana]

Now vote the one doing the same thing and not admitting to it. At least Commandodude admitted they weren't reading gak and appears to care little about the game.

Tho that would be a quickhammer, i'd think we should at least hear Shawn's claim first.

[Sakura Hana]

Shawn: For someone on their first game you seem to claim a lot of knowledge on good and bad play, have you had any prior mafia experience outside of mafiascum?

Also what is tunneling?

[Sakura Hana]

It bothers me how Shawn dodges questions (most of the time), and provides near to zero insight unless specifically asked, and even then fails to provide reasons.

@Shawn: If what i'm saying in that line is not true, then care to tell me what are your scumspects? (last time you mentioned Irish) and why?

P-Edit: I'm still wondering the reason of your outburst on commando.

[Sakura Hana]

So you're implying Irish is busing?

[Sakura Hana]

Or did i misread (sorry for double post, posted a bit too quick)

[Sakura Hana]

Just wondering, Thor why are you so eager to end the day early?

[Sakura Hana]

Well fmpov even if Shawn turns out town, avoiding or skipping questions isn't helping the town, nor his case, Keeping townies that are viewed as scum would help the mafia, since they usually tend to shot down townies that are mostly viewed as towny to ensure their victory.

This however doesn't change the fact that fmpov Shawny is a scum, specially with his constant WIFOMing when he's in a tight spot, and from what I mentioned in the previous paragraph, avoiding/skipping questions is avoiding discussion... I don't see why a towny wouldn't answer questions, but i can see lots of reasons for a scum to avoid questions.

[Sakura Hana]

Then tell me how is Shawny helping scumhunt in any way? if you're reading him as town then could you explain his WIFOM when comando was at L-2?. What are your reads on everyone?

[Sakura Hana]

now that you mention it... he's saying his play is bad, yet he also says he's experienced?

[Sakura Hana]

Fair enough... tho he's still one of my biggest leads in the scum radar, and i have atm no one else that can be scummy (either that or i fail at reading people), so my vote stays where it is for now. I've accepted the possibility, of him being town, but he's still my current lowest town read of everyone in here. Because yeah, Mislynching a towny is bad, but out of Mislynching a towny who is obvtowny and Mislynching a Towny who is maybe towny, i prefer the latter. If i find scum reads on someone else, then my vote will change.

P-Edit: I've asked you several times to pull up a case on why you think Irish is scum, yet you never did, and now you flopped your vote out, was this because of his "dumb play"? or because you realized you couldn't actually make a case on him.

[Sakura Hana]

@Shawny: And as you know... there's a 22% chance of lynching scum on D1 (i think?) to begin with, tho depending on what the lynchee flips and the N1 Kill, looking back on D1 we can start drawing conclusions, of course i'd love to find scum, but i find it highly unlikely, since so far, everyone looks town to me except you, and if you're really town, then what am i supposed to do?

[Sakura Hana]

Hmm you feel pretty relaxed for someone under the pressure of L-1, i'd think scum would be more nervous.
For now
UNVOTE: Shawn
You're still pretty low on my town reads tho.

[Sakura Hana]

lol Neko new avatar

[Sakura Hana]

I guess imma look at thor's posts in isolation and see if i can draw something, but something about his playstyle's been bothering me for a while, tho i can't put my finger on it.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah, the thing bothering me about Thor is that he wants to lynch something ASAP, if he's scum, he's denying town more discussion which is a good move, i don't see how a town would want to lynch someone fast unless they're 100% sure of their alignment, which is kinda hard to be sure of at this point unless you're scum.

Monty's randomly lurking does bother me, specially since he never expressed a V/LA which could seem that he's scum watching town fight against each other and enjoying the ride without doing much.

FoS: Thor and Monty

[Sakura Hana]

Ah well, off to sleep

[Sakura Hana]

You know, i'm just going to follow Thor's recommendation and since he's my main suspect atm then i'll vote him.
VOTE: Thor

[Sakura Hana]

You know, i'm just going to follow Thor's recommendation and since he's my main suspect atm then i'll vote him.
VOTE: Thor

When did this happen?

When did what happen?, if you mean Thor's recommendation, it was in one of his first posts telling me to vote whoever's on my scum radar, If you mean, him being my main suspect, check like 2 or 3 of my posts before where i FoS him and Monty.

[Sakura Hana]

Why do you want to know? how about you give me your thoughts on it? So far you seem to be relying a lot on my logic (or everyone's for that matter) to make decissions, while giving very few info yourself. So in this case i wanna hear from you first, before i give you my thoughts.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh Commandodude, considering you've barely posted can you give us your thoughts on the whole thing? Who are your scumspects if you have any and why?

[Sakura Hana]

Commandodude's abrupt arrival shocked me, and his next posts merited a vote from me. Shawn defends Commandodude honorably with much confidence, which also made me suspect him.

Scum motivation behind these actions.

I'd say more than that, specially how he conveniently joins every BW by saying "I agree with your logic"

[Sakura Hana]

What is Pathos, can't you just speak in english?

[Sakura Hana]

Well it would be nice if you stopped using such weird terms X_X i dont get them.

[Sakura Hana]

Well let's look at Irish.

Holds off his vote for a while, because he wants to hear from "everyone"

IrishPope: Thinking scum, if you're town you don't really need to keep mentioning every single post, most relevant ones are his ISOs #10, #13, and #14, also his ISO #5 bothers me, someone's scum because they dont look scum? nice logic. Also ISO #23

If I was scum, why would I not vote?

more likely waiting to join a BW when you see everyone going into it, so your partner can hammer?, looks to me like you should at least be voting to gauge reactions so you can get reads.

Funny enough i had already pointed out the scum reason behind holding his vote, then.

the time will come for Town to be victorious.

Seems to focus too much on the fact that he's town, trying too hard to avoid scumslip? i'll give the benefit of doubt to this one.

Hopefully you all see why I held my vote for a while. Sneaky bastard.
Sakura, please, your thoughts on this.

Keeps asking my thoughs on stuff, yet doesn't provide thoughts other than the reasoning behind his "lack of voting"?

What if he is disguising scum play with bad play?

Throwing WIFOM at Comandodude.

Posting from my phone, I agree with your logic.
UNVOTE: Commandodude
VOTE: Shawn

L-1. Gonna fakeclaim a PR, Shawny boy?

Joins the Shawn BW after ditching the Commandodude BW.

Well, it would seem to me we are at a crossroads. I will stay neutral for a while, given I have voted for the most obvious scum and people still see me as scum.
Also, if we do lynch Shawn and he flips town, remember I voted for Commandodude, and don't make up things.

UNVOTE: Shawn

This post... unvotes shawn and asks us to remember he voted for Commandodude.

As always, I do suspect lurking/disappearing.

Then why arent you directing your votes at commandodude and monty? or even better Thor who has dissappeared again.

I wanted to stay neutral. Like, you know, before Commandodude arrived. And that worked out well, no?
However, I do agree with your logic. Pressure is the basis of Mafia.
VOTE: Shawn

Joins the BW again by "Agreeing with my logic".

Not disagreeing with you, but i would like to know from your PoV why he's scum.

For the same reasons you and Nekoko have stated. I agree with your logic. Defending with such haste and confidence could be a newbie mistake, but I won't take chances.

Once again, he's only stating the exact same things we already provided, idk whether he's true to them are hiding behind our reasonings.

I am changing my vote due to new information, and me agreeing on the soundness of your logic.

Yet does not provide any logic of his own.

Sakura, I assume your views on Commandodude/shawn have changed. What are your new thoughts on this?

And this triggered my FoS on him, he saw i switched my vote to Thor, so he was probably looking to Sheep me again by saying "I agree with your logic"

FoS: IrishPope

[Sakura Hana]

Wait, why would MM need looking at if there's no doc?

[Sakura Hana]

And why would Commando and Irish be assured town

[Sakura Hana]

Well duh, i'm more worried about why Commando and you are assured town if there's no doc, i know all setup possibilities.

[Sakura Hana]

Well that's from YOUR point of view, what i want to know is the correlation of a missing doc and your assured alignments and the fact that MM needs to be looked at.

[Sakura Hana]

the "YOUR" on that post was directed at Irish btw

[Sakura Hana]

UNVOTE: Thor665
I'm really confused at the momment, imma need to look at everyone on isolation again.

[Sakura Hana]

Also, why is everyone ignoring my case on Irish? some insight would be helpful, am i right?, am i wrong? why? X_X

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, if there's no Doc, then there is a Cop or a Jailkeeper.

I'm assured town because I am town. Simple. No one here is voting for me because of the scum we are aware of (this excludes Shawn, an OMGUS vote).
I am not sure about Commando though. I think that, if we lynch Shawn, we can know Commandodude's alignment.

So according to you, this is contributing? telling me something i already know, and claiming that you're assured town?

Fascinating

VOTE: TheIrishPope

[Sakura Hana]

If you are sheeping Thor, just say so.

He obviously is, look at how he sheeped me without providing much insigh of his own other than Agreeing with my logic.

[Sakura Hana]

@Irish: If you think i'm scum partner with Shawn then why aren't you voting me?
Contribution, have i ever see you make a case on someone? say for example... Shawn? Claiming town is the point of the game? i thought the point of the game was winning by getting the other side dead, Scum can easily claim town, or i would say... that'd be a rather desperate move for scum to do.
I still got feelings that Shawn is scum, but your bandwagoning without arguments bothers me the most.

P-Edit: Shawn is admitting to lying?...

Guess someone wants to die early

VOTE: Shawn

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah you're drawing so much WIFOM to defend yourself, which is... a scum tactic.
Town has no reason to lie, while Scum has every single reason to lie.

[Sakura Hana]

Post 367 You're basically misrepping and turning people against Thor by saying he said things he didn't say.

You weren't reading his posts, and you called him out, he evidenced why you weren't reading his posts, and you refused the claims, yet...
Bah you know, why don't you re-read the thread again, maybe you will find your answers in there, why do i have to point stuff out for you when you're clearly not reading if you have to ask.

[Sakura Hana]

What reason could you have to make up a reason for thor to lynch when he had already pointed out why you were scummy to him?

[Sakura Hana]

You know, it's funny that you find him wanting to lynch you for your outburst on Commando, because you know, he voted you before commando even appeared? makes total sense to me.

[Sakura Hana]

And you're clearly avoiding the question, i already pointed the reason why i'm voting you, but you clearly aren't reading.

I'm done with you, my vote stays there until you can convince me otherwise.

P-Edit: Well then point me to said post?

[Sakura Hana]

1. Y
2. N
3. N

You mean Post 357? Can you tell me where did he say he was voting you because of your defense on comando? at most he said to vote you for prentending to read but not reading rather than someone who at least admitted they weren't reading.

[Sakura Hana]

Hmm you feel pretty relaxed for someone under the pressure of L-1, i'd think scum would be more nervous.
For now
Unvote:Shawn
You're still pretty low on my town reads tho.

I never mentioned you were off the hook, why do you say i did?

[Sakura Hana]

Where did you say you read it wrong? with quotes or links, since you like them so much

[Sakura Hana]

I didn't sheep your stuff on thor, i just found it scummy to want to end the day early, and i never said he was off the hook either.

[Sakura Hana]

@Shawn: I find it funny that even tho you admitted you could've read it wrong, you're still reading things wrong, like me 180ing on you when i never said you or thor were off the hook, or me sheeping you on thor. Now then if you're really not lying or misrepping on purpose, then why aren't you making an effort to... you know... STOP DOING IT?

[Sakura Hana]

I can't tell if your apologies are a desperation move or legit, specially after so much deception coming from you, i don't feel i can trust you.

I'm going to sleep, my vote stays where it is for now, and i hope no one hammers yet, if someone quick hammers and you flip town guess we know where the scum is.

[Sakura Hana]

Yes he is, by my count since Mod's last count

[Sakura Hana]

Anyways (Sorry for triple post)
Good night guys

[Sakura Hana]

Makes me sad that you are not reading Sakura .
What I just posted was not opinions, its how to play the game. You cannot think that we are both scum because it makes no sense. So if you think that both of us are scum, 1 read is wrong. And you should probably try and see which one is.

When did i say you were scum together?, i merely say you both (as well as 2 others) are on my scum radar, and i am certainly aware that if you flip scum, then thor is town.

[Sakura Hana]

Yes but to think that one is scum, you have to think of some reasons why the other is town, yes? So that counts as 180ing, yes?

Nope, i just think that either you or Thor are scum, but certainly not together, stop putting words in my mouth.

[Sakura Hana]

Ops, should have used the quote thing in topic review rather than posting, oh well.

What do you feel about lurky blendy monty?

I already gave my opinion on him way back in Post 413, if you cared to read instead of making stuff up, you'd know by now, he hasn't posted since then, so it makes sense that my stance on him hasn't changed.

[Sakura Hana]

@Shawn: You just answered yourself.

@Thor: I was asking about the doc thing, as a player asks an IC, because i'm pretty lost on your reasons for your activities at the momment. On post Post 451 all i get is that you're calling Shawn scum, for reasons that i agree, but i mostly want to know who you're referring to in:

And the other person scum.
And the other person managed to remain slightly polite when talking to them.

And how does this relate to your next post.

[Sakura Hana]

We should be hearing from him within 24 hours anyways, since by my count he has less than 24 hours until he's due to a prod.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh wait, he's not, the one that's due within 24 hours is syco, my bad.

[Sakura Hana]

On Another note, what do we learn by Lynching Monty? i think we learn a lot more by Lynching Shawn, and if there is a cop (i'm just assuming there is) we can have them investigate Monty during the night, if there's no cop then, guess we can start interrogating him on D2.

IMO: Lynching Monty if Town... we learn nothing, he hasn't interacted with anyone. If scum... we learn nothing either. Either way no one's assured Town and no one's assured scum.
Lynching Shawny if Scum, Thor is certain to be Town (i highly doubt he would pull off a Bus on D1) and MM has higher chance of being scum. If Town, then Thor has a high chance of being scum and MM has a high chance of being Town.

Am i missing something here?

[Sakura Hana]

Because it's impossible to be 100% certain someone's scum on D1 unless, of course, you are scum yourself.
And if you are attacking innactives why aren't you attacking syco since she hasn't posted in like forever? In fact she's been away for longer than Monty.
Why does Monty give you more scum vibes than Comandodude who has offered even less insight and has stated that doesn't even read the thread?

[Sakura Hana]

So why do you think Monty is a better lynch than you other than your gut feeling?
Why should i be trusting you when you've twisted mine and Thor's words before and lying about it?

Now that i think about it, you mentioned before that you and commandodude had a bad play, why do you claim having a bad play yourself?

[Sakura Hana]

It makes sense, I agree, but that doesn't make him a better lynch than you, so i'm asking you?

[Sakura Hana]

Ok time to isolate Shawn then:

yay
Um
so lynch dudes.

Commandodude.
talk

Eager to lynch, weird connection with Commandodude.

I would think that whatever you write in your first post is reasonably important to you, yes.

^ Furthers on his reasoning that the first post is very important. Then contradicted by:

Why so dumb? First post in the thread, chose random dude.

Then why is choosing someone random important for you?

Overstating that he's town, you don't need to claim you're town to look like town to others, the more you say "I'm town" the more i'm inclined to believe you're scum.

Well, sorry i didn't know that pointing out the fact that it was my first game was bad, but since first posts are important then this bothers me:

yay
Um
so lynch dudes.

Why so eager to lynch someone?

Because if we no lynch, town loses.

duh.

commandodude and mine are bad play(yes im town :O so surprising)

Why do you have to say you have a bad play?, why do you have to state you're town with a bad play?.

That doesnt work Sakura, you cant say quickhammerer's are scum.

Actually moving my vote around is townie, scum dont want to move cause PRESSURE like this.
Town dont care, I dont care.

Irish, do you care more about your image or more about lynching mafia?
Irish is the epitome of caring about his image, look at his recent posts. He wants to 'stay neutral', he is worried that if I flip town, he would be 'implicated'. Yeah town dont care about shit like that.

Fuck everyone and everything else, I wanna lynch this dude.

UNVOTE: Monty
VOTE: Irish

This looks scummy to me.

Yeah I play on tlmafia.

So you are experienced, even after you claimed town with bad play, Interesting, tell me more.

Sakura, Shawn is town. Stop this TvT now.

Thor, the "you're so pro-town that your scum" was me referring to your case on Shawn, not me. I also did not defend Shawn in 209, I never defended Shawn actually. I stated my dislike for his wagon, but I never defended him

that being said,

@ Shawn: you

can

have a point against Thor but at this point in time, I'm not seeing it. The fact that you admit that you may be tunneling and thus want the opinion of others comforts me greatly. At present though, I think your case on Thor isn't that great, though I don't think Thor's case on you is all that great either. I'm not getting the Thor-town read I have gotten from Thor in other games I had with him so maybe sell me on why Thor is scum?

@ Sakura: Commando is irritatingly Anti-town, I can agree with you there but Can town not be doing the same thing he has been doing? furthermore, I think it's great that you think that town

should

care about how they think but I disagree. My reasons for my town read on Commando are pretty similar to Shawn's reasons. I'm inclined to believe that he's trolling town at this point

@Nekoko: My read on Monty is PoE for the most part. He doesn't have enough posts for me to get a good feel for him, though his posts feel contrived and crowd Followy

My read on Thor is that that post was really fucking awful. Like thats one of the worst posts Ive ever seen, because he was hopping around everywhere, sniping at individual posts, not looking at the big picture, not having any conclusions, and nothing about the state of the game so far with Irish and me.

Just LYNCH SHAWN CAUSE HE DEFENDED COMMANDO, I DONT KNOW WHY THATS SCUMMY BUT LYNCH HIM ANYWAY!!?!?!

I dont wanna lynch him today though, I would like to solidify my read first.

Obvious misrep right there.

To clarify about 'bad' play,

I think that my play is fucking awesome, pressuring dudes, making scum scared.

Does me saying that that help anyone? No. So seeing it from your perspective, I am a 'bad' townie. Now as a townie,
1. I wanna lynch scum. Thats who im trying to find is scum.

2. I dont wanna get mislynched.
3. I dont wanna mislynch town.

Right so do you think that my play has followed this? Or is totally different?

More "I'm town" yells.

Fascinating Irish,

I WIFOM therefore im scum.

Think about it. Is it scummy? OR ARE YOU BEING BRAINWASHED BY THOR!!!!
If you are sheeping Thor, just say so.

I'd say WIFOMing when you're or on the verge of being lynched it's quite the scumtell, lol @ brainwash comment

So you caught me lying

= you are town? That makes no sense
What is your question exactly? Why I lied?

Also

Because "careless town" would be scared to admit they gakked up, whereas scum lying totally wouldn't try to hide that fact.

I cant WIFOM but you can? Man that sucks

pedit: Reasons that are different from Thor's Irish?

Admitting to lying.

Makes me sad that you are not reading Sakura

.
What I just posted was not opinions, its how to play the game.

You cannot think that we are both scum because it makes no sense.

So if you think that both of us are scum, 1 read is wrong. And you should probably try and see which one is.

Now you say i'm the one not reading, and again misrep's me.

Ops, should have used the quote thing in topic review rather than posting, oh well.

What do you feel about lurky blendy monty?

I already gave my opinion on him way back in Post 413, if you cared to read instead of making stuff up, you'd know by now, he hasn't posted since then, so it makes sense that my stance on him hasn't changed.

Lurking isnt a feeling. Can you expand?

Also whatever about what you think of thor.

Again didn't read and misreps me.

On Another note, what do we learn by Lynching Monty? i think we learn a lot more by Lynching Shawn, and if there is a cop (i'm just assuming there is) we can have them investigate Monty during the night, if there's no cop then, guess we can start interrogating him on D2.

IMO: Lynching Monty if Town... we learn nothing, he hasn't interacted with anyone. If scum... we learn nothing either. Either way no one's assured Town and no one's assured scum.
Lynching Shawny if Scum, Thor is certain to be Town (i highly doubt he would pull off a Bus on D1) and MM has higher chance of being scum. If Town, then Thor has a high chance of being scum and MM has a high chance of being Town.

Am i missing something here?

We lynch scum.

This kind of mindset is wrong. We shouldnt play to lynch the dude that gives the most 'info' which might not even be accurate depending on circumstances. Like for example, I get lynched, and I flip town. That doesnt definitely Thor scum, nor does it make MM scum either.
Why not just depend on your ability to read the person as town/scum?

What do you think about my case?

Tell me something i don't know, also there's very low chance to find and lynch scum on D1 as it is, but from the flip results we can start to draw conclusions from previous days.

It makes sense, I agree, but that doesn't make him a better lynch than you, so i'm asking you?

cause Im town.

What I just said that we should never lynch for info, even more so that we dont have a deadline looming. Why lynch town when you can lynch scum? Also think about it. If your scumread posts a case you agree with then is your scumread still scummy?

And again on the "i'm town" claim.

Your playstyle seems really odd, some contradictions between your own posts, keeps claiming "I'm town", misreps people and pushes it against them, clearly lying and trying to divert attention while in a though situation

tl;dr Shawn is scum.

[Sakura Hana]

@Monty: Why did you wait until you were called out by Shawn and not earlier to unvote Irish?

[Sakura Hana]

I can see more reason for a scum to claim town than for a town to claim town, just saying.

[Sakura Hana]

Claiming Town while being Town:
Advantages: None, We will already know you're one by your playstyle anyways.
Disadvantages: Scum already knows who's town and who's scum, it gives scum a lesser pool to look for PRs.

Claiming Town while being Scum:
Advantages: Makes them appear pro-town to the Town, just because they are saying so, and Town doesn't have a reason to lie.
Disadvantages: None, Scum knows you're scum anyways.

[Sakura Hana]

You could also be lying to get my vote off you, so i'll just wait on everyone else's input.

[Sakura Hana]

Monty, maybe he'll be more willing to reply if you state an "Intent to Hammer"? You said the only reason you arent voting him is to avoid quickhammering him until you're more certain, is this a soft claim to intent to hammer?

[Sakura Hana]

I don't know i see Monty passively scumhunting, everyone has their playstyle, and PRs also want to stay under the radar of scum you know. I still think your opinion on Town claims is BS, but that's a different opinion than yours, for me people claiming town so often specially when under pressure seems at an attempt at lying to avoid getting lynch, and guess what did you not only aknowledge to do earlier, but was proved that even after acknowledging it you kept doing?

[Sakura Hana]

Not just mine, overall he likes avoiding questions, then pretends they never happened, just look at his ISO between him and Thor, then pushes a case against him.... which wasn't succesful, now that i pushed a case against him, will he retaliate with a case against me i wonder.

[Sakura Hana]

Off-Topic: Also would be nice if you 2 got an avatar :<

[Sakura Hana]

What is a policy lynch?

[Sakura Hana]

Ah i see, thanks.

[Sakura Hana]

What are your thoughts on everyone so far Irish? What do you think about my case against Shawn and all points that flew across between him, me and Monty?

[Sakura Hana]

Ah, nice to get your input MM, i had Shawn, Thor, Irish and Monty on my FoS for a while tho i thought Shawn was a better lynch today, i did see about Irish contradicting himself in his post and was about to post a note about it, but i figured i'd see if someone else noticed it. And now with that post i can see you're most likely Town, or at least shares views with me on him. I'm still dubious with Shawn's play style, which is why i built a case on him, care to give a comment on it? considering he's null atm for you.

[Sakura Hana]

Hmm i'm willing to sheep you on this, since i had already voted for Irish, for the exact same reasons you're pointing out (I even put a case on him), but i wanna know your opinion on my case for Shawn since he's my top scum atm. Post 448 in case you missed it during your abscense

[Sakura Hana]

It's not the fact that he's transparent or not, is the fact of how he tries to refute stuff, maybe it appears too transparent to you because you're more experienced? idk.

P-Edit: She's refering to the fact that you dont post your own content and only sheep people behind their own content instead I assume.

[Sakura Hana]

I think right now we should go with a no lynch or lynch Shawn. Anyways, VOTE: No Lynch

So basically, forfeit the chance to lynch mafia and give the mafia a free kill?

[Sakura Hana]

@Mod: Didn't Commandodude vote for No-Lynch?

[Sakura Hana]

Ah my bad, sorry about that

[Sakura Hana]

Did you even read my post tho Commandodude?

[Sakura Hana]

If you're thinking that you need to say "Intent to Hammer" and ask for a claim or something from him before voting him.

[Sakura Hana]

Well yes, the point of stating it instead of just hammering is to give him a chance to defend himself

[Sakura Hana]

Monty, i already have my Fosses on you, Irish and Thor, tho you're starting to sound a bit more Townish to me. So i guess i'd go with Irish who is my 2nd highest scumspect.

[Sakura Hana]

and Nekoko has done a fantastic job of blending in and looking townish, which is the kind of people I hate.

Tho you were pretty much doing the same thing before by coming saying something and leaving again for a while

[Sakura Hana]

What makes you think im eager to end it fast?, what im eager to get is a claim from Shawn

[Sakura Hana]

If you're really hunting scum, then can you make a case on your scumspects Shawn? And for now
UNVOTE: Shawn
I'll leave my vote off you.

[Sakura Hana]

Well i meant aside from Monty, because i think your case on him is kind of wonky imo, since all you had on him was his activity. Unless you mean that Monty is your only scumspect atm?

[Sakura Hana]

Well i meant aside from Monty, because i think your case on him is kind of wonky imo, since all you had on him was his activity. Unless you mean that Monty is your only scumspect atm?

You didnt read the case. You didnt read the fucking case. That was 1 point. Not the main thing.
MM is rising higher and higher. What do you think about her weird switch in weirds and the 'content' that monty has produced?

Oh my i wonder, didn't you do that with my case on you as well?

[Sakura Hana]

Why would i help you out when you're not helping yourself out? Contradicting yourself is not alignment indicative? fascinating
Yes i want to lynch scum, that's why i got my eye on you.

P-Edit:

[Sakura Hana]

Since you like it so much here it is:

You guys know what? I have been looking at Monty recently and guess what I found? Scum.
Let me tell you why.

1. He is the lurkiest dude in this game and lurking is a scumtell. Whats more is that with his low number of posts, 4, he hasnt advanced any read but posted the blendiest stuff imaginable. He asks questions he never follows up upon, all his posts are strictly in line with town sentiment.

2.

Sorry, I feel so overwhelmed right now. I haven't posted because I either haven't had anything to add or it's already been posted by someone. For what it's worth, with so many votes in this game already, I feel like The Irish Pope has "suspicions" that he is leading people to vote toward, yet feels no conviction to vote for them himself. That is enough to warrant my vote:
VOTE: TheIrishPope

Lets look at this post. It seems like monty is overwhelmed with the game. However apparently he has read enough to determine that by Irish Pope's posts, that Irish is trying to mislead town. This is quite a deep conclusion I think, and not one I expect from someone who is 'overwhelmed'. Also this conclusion is wrong, and if he actually read the thread enough to determine such a deep conclusion, he should know that Irish has no pull with anyone and obviously cant 'lead people to vote'.

3.

Indeed you do. Quite astute of you. Shawn, I am troubled by your consistent movement only because it doesn't seem motivated by a town-based interest. You are flighty, much as though you were attempting to spread as much confusion as possible. Just so we are clear, what are your feelings about people at this point in the game, and how have they changed as the game has progressed?

This post comes at a time where I am under heavy pressure, and is a summary of the some of the stuff that has been leveled at me. He then asks the most general question I have ever seen and I dont remember responding to it and he never follows it up with anything. He is trying to blend in with the town by being suspicious of me as it was the hot topic, possibly thinking of a way to get his vote on to me.

Monty is scum in this town because he has offered no new insights, has tried to get on townie bandwagons, me and Irish and is lurking the fuck out of this game cause he has been under NO PRESSURE. Lets start with this.
UNVOTE: Thor
VOTE: MontyWhittaker

1. If lurking is a scumtell then why arent you on the other lurkers as well?
2. So where do you draw this as a scumtell? because he's acutally... you know, scumhunting?
3. So suspecting on the likely scum is a scumtell, so since im suspecting you as well, am i giving you a scumtell as well?, What does a single vote have anything to do with applying pressure if no one's jumping on your Monty BW to begin with? And how is he trying to blend in with the town when he hasn't even been posting at all until that point?

P-Edit: He's probably too desperate at this point to care for his english (not serious statement)

[Sakura Hana]

Oh my bad, you said when you were under heavy pressure, not him.

[Sakura Hana]

idk, you tell me.
Also you never told me if you were a he or a she :<

@Mod: Isn't Sycorax nearing a prod by now?

[Sakura Hana]

You think you can get away with two lines? Please, add more to the discussion here. Explain your reasons.

The heck was this attack for?

[Sakura Hana]

Just dropping in to say before anyone drops a hammer that the only reason i removed my vote off Shawn was because i wanted a bit more discussion before the day ended so that maybe we can find the other scum, tho at this point it doesn't seem we will be getting anywhere with that anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

Well guess your fate is sealed, i was planning on giving you at least one more day tho, any last words?

[Sakura Hana]

Any reason for wanting a Monty lynch?

[Sakura Hana]

Because i don't see any scum motivation behind his latest posts?

[Sakura Hana]

Not sure if i can trust your words, but at the very least, can you tell me, who you think would be the most likely NK?

[Sakura Hana]

Sorry guys, lots of real life stuff got in the way of having mafia fun here.

Will catch up later today.

Later today might be too late and night will come just sayin

[Sakura Hana]

Oh dear

[Sakura Hana]

Also anyone one notice how Monty's hammer is post 666?

[Sakura Hana]

So Shawn, any answer to my previous question before the mod locks the thread?

[Sakura Hana]

Monty at this point do you still really believe Shawn is scum?