Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[sycorax]

Hi guys, need to catch up a bit.

Heya Thor.

[sycorax]

Caught up.

VOTE: Shawn

atm shawn looks like scum trying to look super townie. Calling scum because a new player says they are new etc.?

[sycorax]

Caught up.

VOTE: Shawn

atm shawn looks like scum trying to look super townie. Calling scum because a new player says they are new etc.?

Clearly not reading.

I called out Sakura's post because she put emphasis on using the IC.
Not being new.

Yeah, because the usual reason for saying they might need help from an IC isn't because they are new? Not to wk Sakura, she could be scummy as a stagnant pond, but atm you look a bit scummier. So it's on you to look more convincingly town.

[sycorax]

I notice several players in this game don't appear to have posted yet. these votes may all be town on town with scum yet to post at all. So I'll try not to get trolley-tracked.

[sycorax]

Heya Thor.

Greetings, Mollie told me to 'make it fun for you' or something like that.
I'm planning to just speed lynch you for lulz later.

Why do you think Shawn is scum trying to look town as opposed to hyper nervous new town trying to be town?
I can't get a clear read there, myself.

Ha, Mollie means three week long day-night cycles tend to make me suicidal, so you need to distract me a bit. Or the speed lynch if it looks like I'm about to haul out the razor blades, that would work.

Re Shawn: You may be right, however his fos of Sakura looked opportunistic to me. It's early, we'll see.

[sycorax]

Shawn, see my post 65.

Ime, scum often pounce on weak looking players: Sakura looked weak, you pounced.

[sycorax]

Shawn, see my post 65.

Ime, scum often pounce on weak looking players: Sakura looked weak, you pounced.

So why didnt I pounce on theirishdude?
What is 'weak' about Sakura's first post?

Very good question. Why didn't you, since theirishdude said almost exactly the same thing? Why did you pick Sakura over him? It's okay to admit it was a random vote, you know.

Admitting inexperience and saying they will need help is an admission of weakness.

Now, you are asking questions and not offering many answers.

[sycorax]

Well it's good town has a Pope, I don't think mafiascum does mayors.

[sycorax]

Well it's good town has a Pope, I don't think mafiascum does mayors.

[sycorax]

I think Nekoko hasn't posted yet.

[sycorax]

oh, and commandodude

[sycorax]

They would also seem suspicious.
Sycorax, any thoughts?
I'm just trying to know everyone's opinion.

It's the weekend, so they get my benefit of doubt as to their absence meaning anything other than 'did not check pms'. But it's something to take into consideration as the game moves along.

[sycorax]

Why Ms. Marangel, I do indeed know Mollie, but i am much more innocent than she ever is.

I've played once with Thor as well, elsewhere.

[sycorax]

WIFOM really. I would like to hear what he has to say before throwing out votes.
Sycorax, why are you giving them leniency? They would be attentive if they signed up for this. Why do you defend them like that?

Second sentence in my post indicates I won't forget their untimely absence.

[sycorax]

Sakura, the person who votes first is generally scum. So I do believe he is most likely mafia.

which could easily be a reaction test to get scum/town tells out of me.

I have not known it to be the case that the first voter is more likely scum. If it was I'd expect scum to have figured that out by now.

[sycorax]

YMMV.
Sycorax, why do you defend Sakura with such glee?

I'm not defending Sakura, though my statement might appear to have that effect. It does players a disfavour to suggest there's a clear method of outing scum such as 'first voter is scum'. If town plays that way, town will lose.

[sycorax]

What does YMMV mean?

Your Mileage May Vary

meaning you might think differently or have a different opinion or result.

[sycorax]

It's dinner time in some of the most populous parts of North America, Irish. I'd expect participation to ramp up a bit in the next couple of hours.

[sycorax]

Sakura, sycorax, my apologies for being nervous and skeptical of everyone. I just want my first game to go well. If either of you are mafia, I'm pretty sure I will get killed at night for talking too much.
Seriously, where is everyone?

Being skeptical of everyone is good. Especially on D1. Keep in mind these games have two week long days :breathes into paper bag: so there's plenty of time to become more familiar with the other players and sniff out who the real scum are. or we'll sniff you out.

[sycorax]

If you are scum.

[sycorax]

Yeah, that's another thing, I'm used to 12 hour days. At least we get two weeks instead of three, eh?
Why do you see me as scum?

I'm used to 24/12s. And the third week is the night phase here.

If your question is addressed to me, I haven't yet seen you as scum, but for someone who claims mafia experience, your remark about scum posting first seemed oddly misguided.

[sycorax]

lol! Irish, I don't think you have more than one vote on you yet. My vote is still on Shawn, though it could move at any time I think there's a better candidate for scum. You're beginning to appear as if you are flailing, which ime can indicate nervous scum.

If you are town, stop worrying about people fosing you - there are thirteen days to prove you're town and for us to find scum.

[sycorax]

Thor, do you know something we do not? You seem a bit too eager to lynch me.

I doubtless know a number of things that the rest of you do not, just as you know things I do not.
I wasn't aware that I was 'too eager' though. I'll try to restrain myself to normal levels of eager.

People should totally speed lynch you now though.

Hey, does speed-lynching end the day like days early? 'Cause that could easily influence my votes.

[sycorax]

Thanks, Sakura, that makes me happy.

[sycorax]

It's a good general rule. Vanilla Town doesn't need to lie. It's important to try to figure out if the 'lie' you think you see isn't a town special trying to avoid being outed, though.

[sycorax]

It's interesting exploring different mafia cultures. I recently played a game elsewhere where a MS player pulled a gambit that went horribly awry because it did not work with the mafia culture of that site.

I wouldn't policy lynch a liar, but I might very likely lynch them.

[sycorax]

I'm really back to Shawn looking scummier than other players so far. he's very eager to get someone lynched in spite of the long time frame we have.

[sycorax]

I see you lurkin' nacho.

[sycorax]

Thor

, my vote is still on Shawn. Irish looks scummy as well, but Shawn's recent posts caused me to leave my vote there for the moment.

[sycorax]

@Nekoko - your read on MM please.

MM looks suspicious

If I was defending anyone, it was Syncorax, not Nekoko.

Irish is a tempting person to vote, though I will hold mine until everyone has at least posted something. He can easily be super nervous townie, or super nervous scum based on what he has posted so far

@ Irish, I do not have any scum-spects thus far.

as for why I was defending her, She also gives me some town vibes so I feel inclined to protect who I perceive to be town.

I don't know if this is a slip or not. Normally people don't use "her" or "she" to address people.
Syncorax hasn't yet said whether he's a he or a she. If MM was referring to me, this is also suspicious because I haven't posted yet.

Also she looks too "friendly" or something in this game as if she doesn't want to make enemies.

I am a woman. sycorax is a woman's name. My friend Mollie has spoken with Marangal about my joining MS, which she referred to in an earlier post.

Dunno why I look 'too friendly'. It's an odd thing to say, imv.

[sycorax]

Sycorax: Null. Seems to be answer more questions about mafia play than about reads, can't get a clear read, he only starts answering when interrogated due to him defending Neko, but was he really defending her (him?), his ISO #22 shows suspicion on Thor for speed lynching? not sure, then on ISO #26 he moves suspicion back to Shawny for the same reason.

I won't invent reads I don't have. I've voted Shawn, considered coming off him, then went back to thinking he is the scummier of him and Irish.

I don't know why you interpret suggesting that people might have reasons for entering the game late as 'defending'. It's a reality, people have lives and it is the tail end of the weekend.

Speed lynching on D1 of a two week game day is suspicious unless enough people are convinced a player is definitely scum. I don't trust Thor's reads well enough to go along with speed lynching any player this early. I've played a 24/12 game with thor, he is a strong player imo but nobody is perfect in mafia.

There are players that haven't posted, or only have a few posts that need to be looked at as well.

Now, it's 1:30 a.m. in my time zone, so I'll have to say goodnight.

[sycorax]

Good point, Sakura.

In fact, have Shawn and Irish interacted much over anything in the game?

Gotta go look.

[sycorax]

Always check your impressions against reality.

Irish on Shawn:

fosed Shawn (and Sakura, wondered if they were partners doing scum theatre) early, post 79
fosed Shawn post 85, said 'so innocent, real scumtell'
questioned Shawn's 'really useless' comment re Thor, post 144
said shawn No. 1 on his scum list, post 148
fosed shawn post 160

UNVOTE: Shawn

VOTE: theIrishPope

Irish is holding back on voting. There is not a good reason for this. Town depends on looking at votes, how they are trending, reasons advanced for them, in order to narrow down scum.

Shawn could still be scum, they could be a team. However, I worry that the absentee players may be scum skating, watching town eat our own.

[sycorax]

They both look scummy. But Irish has tossed a lot of suspicion Shawn's way. Now scum will do that to their partners, but usually not so vigorously - five times in my quick skim through the posts.

People flipping votes often doesn't worry me. That's often town trying to work things out and changing their minds as the game progresses.

Yes, Monty posted once only and commandodude not at all. cdude may be a no-show for this game.

And we shouldn't forget that Nekoko, Ms. Marangal, and Thor are not exempt from having drawn scum roles. Although I don't actively suspect any of them right now.

[sycorax]

I could wish people would post more - besides you Sakura.

I'm also playing a 24/12 game right now. It is in D1, 18 hours in, 525 posts.

[sycorax]

Oh hey guys. How's it going?
Approximately 27 hours left to replace Commandodude, it seems. sycorax, do you think setting yourself above suspicion is beneficial for you?
Sakura, what exactly do you want to know of me?

I'm not above suspicion, but figuring out my alignment is up to the rest of the players. I play the game to the best of my abilities, otherwise. What do you want?

Irish, your insistence on not voting until you see what everyone else thinks/does is making you look extremely scummy. I've already pointed out why I think that. This is a team game. Town depends on seeing their team mates back up their thoughts/suspicions/convictions. You fail your team mates by not putting your money where your mouth is.

If you are town, we need to see that you are town.

[sycorax]

Gladly. Let me see:

Shawn: As I have expressed before, he has certainly acted scummy, but apparently my attitude is so similar to his that I merit the same number of votes. I have my eye on Shawn whom, as you have pointed out, is very oblivious to other people and only waits for his turn to speak instead of listening.

Thor: Him being an IC and all, he certainly does have more experience. It does not mean he is free of guilt, though. His vote on Shawn seemed very pro-Town, so I have nothing on him so far.

Sakura: My dear Sakura. After reading dozens and dozens of posts, I do not know what you are. You are certainly leaning towards Town, but maybe you are defending yourself very well. I cannot state anything bad of you at the moment.

Nekoko: Appears and attempts to take control of the thread. Interesting. She raised points I had already explained and seems a bit too paranoid. Having posted very little and then fading away, I have her as a Goon for the moment, a Mafia who is definitely affordable. This is not an OMGUS view, I am being completely impartial. Her behavior seems... odd.

Sycorax: Why, this is a peculiar player. Sycorax just recently changed his vote to implicate me into all of this. I do not understand why he chooses me over Shawn, however. He is probably just a good guy trying to get people nervous, even though as I said earlier, he sets himself as a cabal, wanting to represent the thread as a whole.

Commandodude: ?

MontyWhittaker: Posted exactly ONCE and hasn't been back. Incited discussion by drawing out Thor, but this one post gives me nothing. Monty is a Mafia Lurker, probably.

Marangal: Looks Town at the moment. Can't really say.

Ready for your wall of questions, my dear.

Sycorax, will my voting somehow prove I am town? Maybe us two putting Shawn at L-1 might help.

Re Nekoko: What do you mean by 'a mafia who is definitely affordable'? Do you mean expendable? What gives you that idea?

Re me: irish, you're not reading the posts. It isn't important and you may continue to refer to me as masculine if you like, but my gender was explicitly named itt. I set myself 'as a cabal, wanting to represent the thread as a whole'? What does that even mean? My job is to find and lynch scum. Anything I post is intended to advance that goal.

And no, you voting will not prove you are town. It would indicate you, if town, are playing as part of a team, imv.

[sycorax]

Still V/LA, but I'm amused with what I have read, and I have some questions

Why is Irish being attacked for not voting, yet no one has yet to attack me for doing the exact same thing. I have stated that I see absolutely no problems with holding ones vote in the slightest.

Shawn, Thor is Null, though why did you ask for my read on him specifically?

What is V/LA?

Speaking for myself, you haven't posted enough to be suspicious for not voting. Irish keeps posting and asking questions, some of which are difficult to interpret, and when asked for clarification he either doesn't answer or answers in an even less understandable manner, or at least that's how I'm experiencing his contributions. If he at least put a vote down it would be possible to grasp where he might be coming from.

[sycorax]

Oh, thanks, Irish! Couldn't for the life of me guess the abbreviation.

[sycorax]

I am not on vacation, I just have limited access

Syn, what is the scum motivation behind not placing a vote? (someone had asked that earlier IIRC, I think it was Shawn?) that person

might[/might] be town, based on other stuff that he had posted

Keeps town uncertain. Irish has fosed several players, so has everyone. If he is scum, then he will be trying to act like ordinary town, so fosing, asking questions, etc.. Once he places a vote, he has stated a position, and if he changes it, there's a clear record of what his more important reads are. If he's scum, that record of voting could catch him up later in the game.

Tbf, I'm used to scrutinising vote records for patterns and clues.

My vote's not on Irish just for the no vote though.

[sycorax]

Irish, you could, if you would, answer the other questions I asked you in this post:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4897099

[sycorax]

Should maybe properly unvote me then, late commandodude.

[sycorax]

Gladly. Let me see:

Shawn: As I have expressed before, he has certainly acted scummy, but apparently my attitude is so similar to his that I merit the same number of votes. I have my eye on Shawn whom, as you have pointed out, is very oblivious to other people and only waits for his turn to speak instead of listening.

Thor: Him being an IC and all, he certainly does have more experience. It does not mean he is free of guilt, though. His vote on Shawn seemed very pro-Town, so I have nothing on him so far.

Sakura: My dear Sakura. After reading dozens and dozens of posts, I do not know what you are. You are certainly leaning towards Town, but maybe you are defending yourself very well. I cannot state anything bad of you at the moment.

Nekoko: Appears and attempts to take control of the thread. Interesting. She raised points I had already explained and seems a bit too paranoid. Having posted very little and then fading away, I have her as a Goon for the moment, a Mafia who is definitely affordable. This is not an OMGUS view, I am being completely impartial. Her behavior seems... odd.

Sycorax: Why, this is a peculiar player. Sycorax just recently changed his vote to implicate me into all of this. I do not understand why he chooses me over Shawn, however. He is probably just a good guy trying to get people nervous, even though as I said earlier, he sets himself as a cabal, wanting to represent the thread as a whole.

Commandodude: ?

MontyWhittaker: Posted exactly ONCE and hasn't been back. Incited discussion by drawing out Thor, but this one post gives me nothing. Monty is a Mafia Lurker, probably.

Marangal: Looks Town at the moment. Can't really say.

Ready for your wall of questions, my dear.

Sycorax, will my voting somehow prove I am town? Maybe us two putting Shawn at L-1 might help.

Re Nekoko: What do you mean by 'a mafia who is definitely affordable'? Do you mean expendable? What gives you that idea?

Re me: irish, you're not reading the posts. It isn't important and you may continue to refer to me as masculine if you like, but my gender was explicitly named itt.

I set myself 'as a cabal, wanting to represent the thread as a whole'? What does that even mean?

My job is to find and lynch scum. Anything I post is intended to advance that goal.

And no, you voting will not prove you are town. It would indicate you, if town, are playing as part of a team, imv.

Bolded my questions in this post, Irish.

[sycorax]

Anyways, I have to go now, so don't ask me anything, I usally don't take the time to look through all the posts.

UNVOTE: theIrishPope

VOTE: commandodude

[sycorax]

Not looking through the posts, we can see that.

1. Doesn't check who's posted (easily done by clicking the all users list at the page bottom) so votes someone for 'not posting'.
2. Assumes Sakura is IC so votes her
3. Is not interested enough to read the thread
4. "Don't ask me anything"

[sycorax]

Sakura, I would call his approach aggressive and dismissive at the same time. If he hasn't time to play he can sub out.

[sycorax]

Irish, those questions...

[sycorax]

I am mostly with Nekoko right now, re Shawn and commandodude's apparent relationship, though it's suspiciously obvious.

Ms. Marangal, I had my vote on Irish for a long while. Monty has posted a couple omg i don't know what to do comments, which certainly could be deceptive scum, but what's your reason for focussing on him?

[sycorax]

Shawn, see where I said 'suspiciously obvious'? It's possible you two are friends online or irl.

Hard defending a scum buddy? Seen it done.

[sycorax]

How about three lines why you are not? From you? I've already said why you've looked scummy or anti town in previous posts.

[sycorax]

Sorry guys, lots of real life stuff got in the way of having mafia fun here.

Will catch up later today.

[sycorax]

Then I will have to suffer the consequences. Very quick skim says commandodude is now thought town, shawn is in danger of lynch, Irish has left the building. Okay lots to figure out.

[sycorax]

back in a couple hours.