Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

[zachattack]

I should probably /confirm.

I'll do something tangible tonight or tomorrow.

[zachattack]

I'm considering the trust thing a null tell. He set it up probably hoping to get a bunch of town games in a row. I believe he's break it first time he gets a scum role, which could be here.

I think Klick nailed the werewolves. Fuzz and Icebox are the two scummiest looking players aside from the RQS, so that pushes it over the top. I don't like Fuzz because of his "I'm super good as scum, I promise!". I just plain don't like hydras. The partner blame looks like every scum hydra I've seen. I'm good with either vote.

Vote:Fuzz

Why is Klick town?

I don't want to vote for TNE. That looks like it could pick up. He doesn't feel scummy to me.

[zachattack]

Meh, just read that Zach also might not have had time to answer the questions. So I'm less suspicious of Zach. But he's definitely not townie to me right now.

Yeah this. I didn't get a chance to read until after Klick exposed his reasons for the questioning. Seemed pointless at that point.

TNE is a classic scum or dumb situation, and this wagon was clearly coming, to those who argued against my preemptive dismissing of this wagon. I think he's dumb town here. I've read his scum games. He tries not to act like such an idiot in them. The lack of effort is a town tell for him in my eyes.

Curious about Rem's read on me. I understand not fully explaining a read to the rest of the game, you don't want to taint my reactions. But not explaining to your Hydra partner? Man, one of these times it would be nice to play with a town Hydra, just to see what it's like. Still happy with my vote on Fuzzy, and Icebox is still my #2.

[zachattack]

I have only one completed game here since 2009. I was scum in 2 of the first 4 games I played here 4 years ago, but my style has changed a lot since then. This is the third hydra I've ever played with, the first two were scum, which doesn't make this one scum, but both had similar instances of one head behaving questionably and the other head not being able to answer for it. I'm voting for fuzzy over Icebox because two for two on this tell isn't enough to call it a guarantee, and aside from interhydra actions he hasn't been too scummy, whereas I haven't liked a single fuzzy post. And fuzzy had more votes, so I'm better placed there, especially since I don't want TNE lynched.

[zachattack]

And why don't you want TNE lynched?

Meh, just read that Zach also might not have had time to answer the questions. So I'm less suspicious of Zach. But he's definitely not townie to me right now.

Yeah this. I didn't get a chance to read until after Klick exposed his reasons for the questioning. Seemed pointless at that point.

TNE is a classic scum or dumb situation, and this wagon was clearly coming, to those who argued against my preemptive dismissing of this wagon. I think he's dumb town here. I've read his scum games. He tries not to act like such an idiot in them. The lack of effort is a town tell for him in my eyes.

Curious about Rem's read on me. I understand not fully explaining a read to the rest of the game, you don't want to taint my reactions. But not explaining to your Hydra partner? Man, one of these times it would be nice to play with a town Hydra, just to see what it's like. Still happy with my vote on Fuzzy, and Icebox is still my #2.

[zachattack]

Will post by noon EST.

[zachattack]

Rem, what did you mean by me appearing comfortable? I'm not comfortable. My biggest town read is at L-2. I'd like for that to not happen.

As for narrow focus, the majority of players haven't pinged me one way or another. I've got a pile of null reads. Good scum don't get caught Day 1 except in hindsight, it's very easy to appear town by being helpful. Take Klick. He looks townish. But he could easily be mafia hunting wolves. Or a wolf using the question phase as a red herring. I'm not comfortable calling him a town read as a result, and he is certainly not a scum read. I feel the same about most players. Once we have some flips I'm much better at breaking down motivations.

[zachattack]

Mostly yes. Hence the narrow focus. I could do that with 95% of posts in this thread.

[zachattack]

Okay, more or less caught up now. Sorry for the inattention folks; end of April is always hell for me.

So, top scumspects: Fuzzy, Zach. Fuzzy for his opportunistic TNE vote and those other reasons I outlined in my previous post (#146 I think?). However:

Zach has now called TNE town twice for meta reasons (scum or dumb was the phrase Zach used iirc). While I do sort of agree with Zach that TNE isn't the best lynch today, I don't get two things about his(zach's) play thus far. First, why is he WKing TNE so hard thus far? I don't think TNE is a good lynch today, but zach has been pretty adamant about not lynching TNE (five of his seven posts say he doesn't want to lynch TNE, TNE is his "strongest town read", etc.).

The other thing that bugs me is his declaration in #325 that he's not got any reads on most of the players, minus TNE. Uh, in 14 pages you don't have any kind of opinion on any players except TNE? And the reason you're citing for this is that most people's motivations are WIFOM? Surely you have some gut reads, no? Not to mention your "favorite town read" could have the same logic applied to him. For example, you claim "scum or dumb, and he's dumb" as your towntell on TNE. Well, as many games as TNE has played in, don't you think he might be aware enough of his own meta to play that way as scum? Hell, he's aware enough of his own playstyle to have "I'm always inconsistent" in his sig.

I've played a game with zach before (Open 486). Granted, it's one game, but it does show something interesting. If you take a look at zachISO in that game, you'll notice that he was comfortable calling fuzzy town by post #168 thanks to some setup derp that fuzzy was perpetuating. If he really believed that crock he was saying about WIFOM motivations, he'd have had fuzzy as null in that game at that point in time.

In short, I think this is scumZach trying to emulate townZach.

VOTE: zachattack

There are situations where it's 90% town, 10% scum. Fuzz in that game was one. TNE in this game was another. I expressed two reads on day 1 of that game, gut scum on Johnny and town on Fuzz. I wouldn't have brought up my gut scum read if I had a strong scum read there. I've expressed 3 reads here, scum on Fuzz, Ice, and town on TNE. As for WKing TNE, he's been at L-2 for a long time. And he's not exactly done well at alleviating that suspicion. So I'd like the rest of the game to see what I see. I don't think he's playing dumb.

Fuzzes vote upgrades him from probscum to obvscum. Syryana said he thinks I'm copying my style from that game, which is wrong but valid. And then you act like I'm out of character. Maybe I'm faking it, maybe it's genuine, but I'm doing the same things I did there, and you're pretending I'm not.

Rem, I am reading people. At this point in time I'm comfortable calling town is TNE, and now Bulb is leaning town, and the only players I would vote for are you and Fuzz. Your last three posts are sketch. You said nothing worth apologizing for to Bulb. And I don't need the advice, that looks like you setting up for my town flip with "I tried to help him!".

[zachattack]

Klick hasn't made enough posts for a read?