Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

[Egg]

/confirm

I'll vote Klick when the game starts.

Preview edit: acknowledging I saw that last post.

[Egg]

Hello, Egg. Have I ever played with you before?

Yes.

Got an important RQS.

1. Are you Town? Give three sentences to explain your reasoning.
2. Who would you like to be Mafia with in this game?

1. Yes. I got a Role PM. It says town. I'm town.
2. Fuzzy because he's always obvtown. And zach.

Also syryana is town. I'd prefer not to get into why.

[Egg]

Fuzzy, I've played with you before.

[Egg]

vote icebox

Post 29 swayed me into changing my intended vote.

[Egg]

Icebox, yeah when I was a scum hydra last, I made a comment just like post 37 after my other head got called out.

Bulb and Klock are probably town. Fuzzy might be scum. These are early gut reads except klick. I'll get more into klick if people care a few pages down the road.

Preview edit: mac, that didn't look like mod/scum interaction.

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Mac, a Mod wouldn't interact so freely with scum out of fear of giving them away. This is especially true with a first time Mod.

Bo, i'd prefer if you disclose. Seriously considering voting if you don't.

Fuzzy, take my word for it. I'll explain later.

[Egg]

Bo, we have the same thing ol klick. I'm sure of that and assuming I'm right, you know why we have to wait. It's the Icebox thing I want from you.

Bulb, I'm even more interested in the other head's reaction. It's kind of a "hey that head fucked up. Listen to me instead". Big scum tell for hydra scum. One head slips and the other tries to discredit as "oh hey I'm the good head. Ignore the one that looks scummy".

Lol at post 81 by icebox. "I was the only one...". You do realize your answer was pretty similiar to the one i'd already given, right? That was why I voted initially.

Thene, why RVS vote on someone who is already a popular wagon? Are you pretending to have posted without reading anything and you hadn't noticed the wagon?

Actually. Bo, mind if I spill the beans on the klick thing in light of thene's answer? If you see thene as scummy, I know we caught the same thing. Hell, I'm confident that thene and ice are both scum.

Ok so klick beat me to the above. Not quite what I saw. I was looking more at the fact that it forces you to name (a) partner(s). The fact that thene didn't name anyone looks like he didn't want to be connected to anyone. The excessive smiley usage confirms to me that he didn't want his answer taken seriously and wanted the question laughed off as a complete joke. Lol I read post 86 after writing this. I believe it to be true even more now.

Icebox's last few posts are "oh shit did I really fuck up already?". All defense, no scumhunting. Maybe out of fear of being called for deflecting, but point still stands.

I honestly could care less between an icebox lynch and a thene lynch. I'm sure both are scum.

Klick, i'd agree on icebox if that statement were out of thread or postgame after a town flip. But it's the right thing to say in a scum game. Hell if it were mentioned in that town game they linked, i'd buy it. I haven't clicked the link, but I assume that's not the case. However, I think I have more confidence in thene scum than ice scum at this point so...

unvote, vote thene

I'd advise that the scum team that has a NK kills icebox if they aren't on that team. It's to their advantage to kill off the other scum team. Obviously, we all know that an opposing scum team is a bigger threat to scum than town is. It's been discussed all over the site but just throwing it out there for any newer players who might be scum. Benefits both you and the town which is why I throw out that little pointer.

[Egg]

Bo, klick is over valuing a potential town tell. However, there's no evidence it's vaild. It's not exactly as recognized as pooky's promise

[Egg]

Thene, tell me who was more widely called scum.

Klick, I'm gonna give you an example. Assume I get no preview edit. The post number is interchangable. My next post is post 110 in that case. I have played one game on this account. Whether it's the case or not because I could change the number, assume I had post 110 in that game. I was town in that game. If I say right now that any game I get post 110 in, I am town and I won't break that tell, that is a trust tell. However, it has no merit. This is an ongoing game and that tell has not been proven to be true outside of this game. Therefore, you need to trust that I intend to keep this tell. How do you know this is the case? You don't. Because it has yet to be mentioned outside of this ongoing game. That's why ice's "trust tell" isn't a valid trust tell yet. Now if pooky replaced in and gave us a pooky promise, i'd be taking serious consideration into things. Obviously, that's not the case.

Bulb, I'll be honest. I don't care how I look from that. If I get lynched over it and scum kills the other scum team because I show them why it's a good idea, town still benefits. It's the same idea as a cop claiming a guilty, lynching that scum, and the cop being NK'd. It's a 1 for 1. That is a higher percentage of the scum dying than the percentage of the town dying. Well worth it. Even if Ice is town and scum start shooting for scum, it benefits both town and the scum team with the NK. At that point, I've made my impact and helped town even if I'm dead. So like it, don't like it, I don't care. I'll flip town and everyone will know my motivations were genuine. Hopefully that includes the scum and they know where to shoot.

[Egg]

Klick, if icebox is thinking about THIS GAME and not future games, why not make it seem like "I always do this". If it's a self meta from scum made to look town, there's no reason why it would come up in future games. It helps here and has no effect later. Why stress over it? As for the "going to lengths" thing, it really isn't. Pressure is on so come up with something fast. This fits the bill for something quick to say under pressure. It really isn't some elaborate ruse. I could see someone coming up with it quickly.

[Egg]

Klick, i'd be more than willing to lynch ice though. Not quite sure on fuzzy. Gut was saying he could be scum after his first few posts. That feeling has faded a bit though. Throughout Page 5, I do notice a sense of confidence I haven't seen from him before. And I don't think I've seen his scum game. Meh. Not quite sure what to think.

Based on 134, if fuzzy is scum, so is bulb. Acknowledges the wagon, gives an excuse not to be on it, but leaves it open as an option for later. Then makes his mac case. This would make mac town if the fuzzy/bulb team exists.

Bo, explain your bulb vote.

I actually took that as Bulb forgetting there are two teams. I think that's slightly more likely from town because scum are trying to hunt the other team to look town so they should remember their team and it's numbers as well as the one they are hunting.

<- his explanation is probably legit. Could be a decent werewolf candidate. He's not mafia though.

Syryana, he was very loose and laid back. I don't see a Mod doing that with scum. Specifically, I mean the modkilling joke but it really applies to the whole interaction. Can you link me to a similar partner blame thing from a town hydra? Also, this isn't to say that fuzzy is town, but I think you are stretching for a case on him.

Stopped reading after syryana's post. Gotta leave for work

[Egg]

Blatant OMGUS from Mac. Not quite sure if it's scum who thinks they've been voted for non-scummy things or if it's town who is frustrated with a vote on him.

[Egg]

Mac, it is OMGUS. Your vote on him is because of his vote on you. Scum and town both OMGUS though so that on it's own isn't scummy. What is scummy is how defensive you got, not just after his vote, but after I called your vote OMGUS as well. Lucky for you, there are players who are much scummier than you are.

Syryana, fair. I don't believe I've seen it so I was basically trying to guage whether you'd actually seen it or just felt you probably had at some point. The fact that you have a specific game in mind satisfies that. And I believe I answered your question in the first part of this post. I can go into more detail if needed, but it seems pretty clear cut to me.

[Egg]

Meh. It's whatever. Thene and icebox are scummier anyway. And maybe even fuzzy.

[Egg]

Yeah thene's reads post is an attempt to get people off his back for not contributing.

Mac, you're right. In that scenario you could be on the other scum team. You just wouldn't be scum with fuzzy/bulb.

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Mac, as I said before, a brief moment of forgetfulness as far as the two scum teams is more likely to come from town. The only reason it's null for me and not a town tell is because I already brought it up earlier. I'm aware of it so it doesn't really work.

Icebox, I personally don't like the spoiler format. Just use quotes with your text underneath. As for game related stuff, I'm not so sure I like how you make a couple of points against thene but still call him town for the meta tell.

Preview edit: icebox/thene team. Yeah pretty much.

And robots? What the fuck? Lol.

Guys quit making me preview edit. That's three times for this post lol.

[Egg]

Icebox, show me three examples of him doing that as town and three NOT doing it as scum and I'll unvote.

Bo, while I can see what you are sating about zach, I feel like scum would be more likely to dance around it than avoid it completely. I feel like they feel a need to address everything to avoid being called out. He probably legitimately didn't see the importance of answering.

Mac, I don't get it. The reason why scum shouldn't forget there are two teams is that they are scum who won't forget they have buddies and they are also genuinely looking for scum. Why would this only apply to one of the two teams? Or do you have a different reason for believing this? Actually, your original comment about it being a scumslip implied that you just saw it as a scumslip and not a specific scum group slip.

I've yet to read after Mac's post but I've got to stop reading for now.

[Egg]

Icebox, I'll look at those links later.

Bulb, if I were scum, why would I tell scum to shoot the other team? If I'm on the team that can NK, I have no reason to "direct" that kill because it's my own kill. If I'm on the other team, I'm effectively telling them to shoot my team. There's no way at all that that makes sense as a scum tell.

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Bo, responding to something doesn't mean your worried. You should be more concerned if I ignore something where my name is broughht up.

Bulb, except that I specifically said they should shoot for scum so....yeah.

Anyway. Bo. Why is thene town now?

[Egg]

Couldn't that just mean thene and icebox aren't scum together?

[Egg]

So he looks bad if ice/zach are scum and he looks bad if they are town. So that makes him a town read for now? And then you are telling him what to avoid doing that would make him look bad.

I'm really not following your logic here.

[Egg]

Or scum who feels like they are going down anyway. I've seen scum stop caring when they get wagoned Day 1. Hell, I've probably done it. I've never played with him though so it's hard to tell if he'd do it or if you're right.

[Egg]

It's more of a carelessness than giving up. It's hard to separate the two, but there is a difference. You can sense it after three or four votes. When I hear giving up, I think of the player who stops posting at L-1 or L-2 or near deadline as the only major wagon.

I think fuzzy gets it. It's more of a "fuck this game. These people are dumb and I'm getting lynched anyway" attitude even if you aren't posting those words. The posting is just more effortless in appearance due to a defeatist mentality.

[Egg]

Bo, I agree. He wasn't an obvious lynch. He had three or four votes and may have experienced the carelessness I described as opposed to the giving up mentality of an obvious lynch. Just like I said in my last post.

And there's nothing more frustrating as scum than being voted for what you think are bad reasons.

Thene, I'm considering my theory and Bo's. We don't have a defense from you to go by so I'm using the resources I have.

[Egg]

Wagon, Lynch, Same thing

Thene, what are your thoughts on icebox, fuzzy, and bulb. If you said this earlier and it hasn't changed, repeat it for me.

Fuzzy, no slip. People say that about players they find scummy all the time.

Bulb/icebox, town needs to look town just as much as scum does. There are MD threads on why.

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Klick, top three scum reads and top three town reads with reasons.

Fuzzy, can't remember off the top of my head.

Bulb, it actually made sense to me. Sort of. I mean, I can follow the logic but scum have to have town reads too, especially when they are hunting a second team. They should hate a mislynch just as much as town and if klick was scum who thought icebox was town, he'd want to stop the wagon. That's why I disagree, but I don't exactly think it's a line of BS from icebox. Oh wait, you meant the "unless we are on the same team". I actually see that as realizing he could be called out as scum with klick and feeling the need to point it out first.

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Zach, I want to make sure I fully understand post 327. Are you effectively admitting that after being prodded for activity, you made a "will post later" type post only to come back and post complete noise in post 325? Are you posting for the sake of posting? Can we expect some kind of contribution soon?

Fuzzy's zach vote is horrible. Townfuzzy makes bad votes for bad reasons that you can tell he believes. He seems too fake in his votes here. More than willing to lynch him at this point.

Bulb, fair. I understand your line of thinking on the "WIFOM" in icebox's post. I still disagree but at least I see where you are coming from and I'm not going to go out of my way to defend someone I think is scum anyway.

I still have some reading to do but figured i'd get some out of the way. Sorry I fell behind. I was doing so well before this lol

[Egg]

Zach kind of has a point about syryana's point that zach is trying to copy his town play. If you see things that look like his town play, why are those things not town tells? What makes it look fake?

Bulb's icebox vote doesn't feel genuine to me.

Bo, I know this wasn't directed at me, but thene answered it and I have input so... fuzzy's town play makes it very obvious that he is genuinely trying to piece things together. He may get confused and make mistakes but it is painfully obvious that he is trying to find scum and lynch them. I get the same painfully obvious that he's trying vibe here, but it's more of a trying to fit in. That's why he looks like scum to me.

I kind of want to throw out there that autti might be scum. Purely gut and not a strong read but it's been popping up almost every time he posts. Not quite sure why.

Note to self: I've read up through post 354.

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Lol so I posted about my gut suspicion of autti this morning. I come on now and read 355 and that reassures me a ton. Great post.

Icebox, my guesses for scum other than you are fuzzy, thene, bulb, and maybe mac. Don't expect that list to stay the same as we get more flips and stuff though. Those reads don't really change if you flip town except that I need one more scum. Not really sure who that would be right now. Probably fresh just by process of elimination.

Still got Page 16 to read.

[Egg]

*cough* prod dodge *cough*

I'll

probably

get serious later. Depending on stuff

Start doing this shit like in Open 484 and you'll lose my town read.

Still not caught up but I've been skimming and this caught my eye.

This is the second time Bo has straight up told Thene how to look town. Just sayin'.

[Egg]

Autti, (on Page 16) you completely misunderstood Bo's point. Why is Icebox's case on you OMGUS? A lot of people have shown suspicion of Icebox. Why would he single you out over these other people. "That's his choice" doesn't really answer that. Not if you want to keep the whole OMGUS point you made. Tell me why Icebox is scum who thinks you are better to OMGUS than all of the other people who suspect him.

Looking at Klick's look back to RQS, I didn't even realize bulb used players not in this game (or I forgot about it). That makes it easy to not have to leave connections to other players.

Icebox, you are just arguing semantics on the OMGUS thing. He's making the point whether he's calling it the right thing or not. Yes, his thinking is flawed. But I don't like the way you dismiss the point by saying he's calling it the wrong thing. Why not address the point itself?

[Egg]

Shit, 3 days until deadline.

Why haven't we lynched Icebox yet?

unvote, vote icebox

[Egg]

Bo, you responded to icebox by saying you were surprised I didn't find your attitude towards thene suspicious. What gave you that impression? I'd absolutely be looking your way if thene were to flip scum at some point. Also, there's a difference between telling someone to be active, which is common, and what you are doing here.

Icebox, my vote on you is based on the things in the very early game. The hydra half blaming the other, the way your RQS answer was basically mine with more words, the way that when initially pressured you went to 100% defending yourself and 0% scumhunting (although this clearly changed later but that could be due to a realization that you have another team to catch). I mostly revoted for deadline. There isn't really anything new.

Autti, (I'm responding to 477 here) I get that. He should have responded to your points. But there is a bigger picture. You are not the only one to suspect him. If he is OMGUSing (regardless of how you define that. Your way or his, this still applies), there has to be a reason why you are more of a threat to his scum game or an easier lynch or for some strong reason a better vote than anyone else who has gone after him. I just don't think that's there. The vote is probably legitimate regardless of his alignment and yours. He still could be scum, and I still am leaning that way, but this isn't a valid point.

Bulb, in 478, you respond to icebox saying that things outside of mafia affect the way you post. He uses the word "quirks". You spin that to the trust tell thing. I think he meant personality. Everyone plays differently.

Bulb and klick both committed a strong scum tell. More bulb than klick. I need to keep reading before I know if I can reveal what it is or not. I think I saw something that males me think I can when I was trying to figure out where I left off.

Bacde, answering your question directed at everyone. I think we lynch the scummiest player whether they are mafia or werewolf. But if I could be picky, i'd say mafia. The fact that there are three means we probably need help from the werewolves at some point to beat them. That can either be from a NK or late in the game when their numbers start to hurt everyone. However, in that case, werewolf would have to be the Day 2 lynch because their numbers are even at that point and wolves can kill.

[Egg]

It took me a minute but I get what icebox was trying to say on the "slip". The word "which" refers to the NK itself, no actually eliminating the NK.

Icebox is committing the same tell as bulb and klick.

Yeah, icebox saw the same crumbs I did. The VT claim is just horrible. Or at least it makes the crumbs horrible. The tell was that they started attacking him after the crumbs. Possible wolves afraid of the seer. Or even mafia wanting the seer outted so he sucks up the NK and they are safe.

Icebox's claim confirms what i'd typed and backspaced. There is an exception to the tell of attacking someone after crumbs. One of them could be a seer. Bulb, klick, and fuzzy are all scum.

I agree with bacde. If icebox is fakeclaiming, no counters. There is a time and place.

Even if fuzzy wasn't crumbing, he's still scum. I only backed off because I thought he crumbed. He was scum before that.

[Egg]

Fuzzy, I want to try something. Assume you are scum for a minute. Just role play this. You are scum and pretty sure klick is on the other team. Humor me. Even if you are town, do this. Ok, now why does lynching klick "solve more problems" than lynching you? Is this true if he is on one specific team and that team is more dangerous? Is it easier to find his buddies? Is there more info on his wagon? What is it?

Bacde, I had klick as a town read then he lurked and came back all scummy.

Thene, I don't think I've seen wisdom win a game before. You're definitely right about the brick wall thing though.

Goodmorning, I always try hard in the early game. I've recently been called scum for it in almost all of my games. What stupidity did I agree with? I can't find it. As for my thing about telling werewolves to shoot mafia, it was discussed in length. Yes, it benefits the werewolves a ton to shoot mafia. It also benefits town. If you can't see why, I have no help for you.

By the way, what is the name of that tell where you replace in and say the person before you played poorly? Goodmorning may have committed it. The Amished tell. Almost didn't remember the name lol. Been so long.

One more thing goodmorning. Why such a strong town read on bulb? The rest of your post never indicated this.

Icebox, I still have thene as scum but things happened. Fuzzy and klick are both scum. Bulb is scum. It's just a matter of who to lynch today.

Bacde, I don't see why you changed your mind on a seer counter claim. I still am against it. Would rather not get into why until tomorrow though. Wait. And now you are back to "don't claim". Ok, whatever lol.

And now I'm caught up.

unvote, vote fuzzy

[Egg]

But werewolves should be shooting for mafia at night. If they don't, which any reasoning not to is beyond me, we can make them our entire focus.

Also, when did we prove you weren't a werewolf?

[Egg]

That's not very convincing...

"I know I'm town" never sways anyone.

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Wow, I leave you people alone for a day and you make 12 pages of content, christ. Catching up now.

Yeah I'm glad I had some free time today or i'd be behind for a week...

[Egg]

I've read through page 33 and I have to ask. Why is fuzzy's reaction so obvtown?

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Goodmorning, the partner blame thing is something I've seen a good handful of scum hydras do. I can't recall seeing it from a town hydra. However, icebox is an uncountered claimed seer, so I'm willing to accept that I was wrong for now.

I can't say zach's play was great, but the Amished tell is going out of your way to mention it. I don't personally have a ton of experience with that tell, but the two or three times I saw it brought up, it was right and the people using it said it had been right in the past.

I thought the werewolves shooting mafia thing was what you meant by something vague in your post. You said something to the effect of "the WIFOM on page x" I think.

Also, who says scumfuzzy would have to be faking those final reads? If he is scum, maybe those are the players he thinks are on the other team.

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Bulb, I only count five scum reads in that post. You, fuzzy, klick, thene, and possibly goodmorning. Although I admit if you want to say I'm calling out a lot of possible scum, I've more than entertained the idea that mac or autti is scum. I also think Bo is worth looking at if thene flips scum. And I haven't entirely dismissed the idea that icebox could be scum but this isn't the time or place to be going after an uncountered claimed seer. So yeah, I have a lot of suspicions. The number of scum in this game is a huge reason why. I'm not saying every one of those players is scum, obviously. It's just where I'm looking. Right now, fuzzy, klick, and you are my primary focus.

Can you explain your town read on goodmorning? He's someone I'm trying to understand a bit because I had a town read on zach and he doesn't look so town so I'm wrong somewhere considering he replaced zach.

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Bo, my reasons for fuzzy scum are mostly meta. It's the way he is actively scumhunting when he is town. Yes, it may be poor attempts, but you can clearly see the intent. I just don't see that in this game. Every one of his votes looks fake and forced, which while common in new town players, isn't townfuzzy at all.

Thene, yes. I look at reactions all the time. I don't see fuzzy's last reads as an obvtown reaction.

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Bulb, at first fuzzy was a weak scum read for me. Then he seemed to crumb seer after he got really scummy. the combination of that and not being fully caught up is why I wasn't voting him. I gave reasons for my order of lynches although I did say I didn't care that much. And yes, as I said already, I have a lot of suspects because there are a lot of scum.

vote klick

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Mod, never mind, I won't be V/LA anymore.

I'd also like to state that I'm fairly confident Autti and Klick are both scum, and that I'll be on the wagon with more votes.

Pretty sure klick is scum.

Not so sure on autti. Or mac.

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Ignore the quote. I didn't do it. My phone did.

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Guys I'll catch up tomorrow. I've been trying to at least skim, but I'm not getting very far with that.

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Bulb, (responding to 931) if you go back and read Day 1 in context, I was behind in reading the game when you say I was distancing. I didn't want to change my vote before I was caught up. Evidence for this includes the fact that my vote was still on icebox after he claimed seer. You'll notice that I switched from icebox to fuzzy as soon as I caught up.

Klick (943) using self meta shows that he is aware of that meta and would be capable of faking it as scum. The meta is null.

Page 38 done. That break from work went quick. =(

[Egg]

It sounds like bacde was saying that the meta isn't valid, not that he has meta that contradicts the self-meta. Now I could be wrong because I have almost four pages left to read, but that's the impression I get.

[Egg]

It's bulb and thene.

vote bulb

Bulb, tell me why I would have shot bo if I was werewolf.

[Egg]

Here's a fucking thought, chaps. How about we explain why it's person X and person Y, instead of just stating it's them? Or else we are going nowhere today.

I gave reasons for both earlier in the game. The only thing that has changed is that thene was being coached in thread by Bo and Bo has now flipped scum.

I've been wrestling with this a bit in my head all morning. I'm more sure thene is scum than I am with bulb. However, as much as I didn't want to deal with "which scum group should we lynch?", I'm confident in thene being mafia rather than werewolf. And yes, werewolves can and should shoot mafia. And yes, they did so last night. However, with one mafia left, their odds of doing so are much less now. Also, we don't know if the Bo shot was an attempt at mafia or not because some people had him as town. I think it's better to try to eliminate the NK now.

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Thene, I voted klick thinking mafia. I didn't think he was aligned with fuzzy so process of elimination as far as what team he'd be on.

Syryana, yes, I think thene iis mafia. It's a combination of Day 1 scumminess and relational tells to Bo. Can you quote your "bulb isn't wolf" case for me?

I'm pretty positive that princess isn't mafia. I can see the wolf case there, but I think there are scummier players (bulb, goodmorning) who are more likely wolf.

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Princess, two things about 1077. One, Bo's scum read on your slot was probably legitimate. I don't think he was just looking for big wagons, especially now knowing that klick was his buddy. I think he wanted you lynched, but was setting up a bus in case he needed it. He had autti as scum late in Day 1. That's why you aren't mafia in my eyes. He'd look for another option Day 2. Two, mafia have NO NK. Werewolves can kill EVERY night. That is why everyone wants werewolves dead today and that is why I'm not voting thene who I am confident is mafia. Now where did you come up with the even/odd night thing? It looks so specific it could be fake.

1090 by princess is a massive twist of bacde's words.

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Bulb, you can't say a post shows "wolf intent" without explaining how. Especially when that post is the one that says we should be lynching a wolf today. Also, princess isn't mafia. Bo's posts against autti weren't bus posts.

I'm not seeing first of all how Bo was null/scummy to everyone. A lot of people had him as town. Second of all, I don't see how null/scummy players are influential. I'm pretty sure you are making things up as you go to make your case sound good.

[Egg]

Bulb, goodmorning wasn't the only one with a town read on Bo. I had a town read on him except for his coaching thene thing which I wasn't even going to look at a whole lot without a thene scum flip. Actually, wasn't Bo going to be part of that town voting bloc?

[Egg]

Syryana, I'm not sure what to think of princess yet. I'm worried we are wagoning that scummy townie who digs deeper holes by saying dumb shit but then flips town and everyone goes "fuck it, that still wasn't a bad lynch". I'm not entirely sold, basically.

[Egg]

Syryana, the thing is I can't tell one way or the other. I'll hammer if the lynch is inevitible.

[Egg]

Careful. A lot of Mods will consider betting a modkillable offense (even something small like an avatar bet. I've asked mith). It's against site rules. You might be ok being a newer player but I wouldn't try it again.

[Egg]

Also that post 100% confirms that one of the following is true:
A) princess is town or mafia. NOT werewolf
B) princess values winning more than she values $10
C) princess doesn't intend to actually pay if she loses a bet.

I'm really leaning A. I don't think I can vote princess today now.

Can we lynch Bulb?

[Egg]

Now, because that little bet thing has me convinced she's town. Before, I was trying to make up my mind.

[Egg]

Bacde, if you need a bulb case that's better than "look at my ISO", I'll do it. I'd rather not right this second though just because I'm phoneposting on my 15 minute break from work.

[Egg]

Princess. This is an open setup. There are no scum power roles.

Didn't even read Bacde's response to princess because it was a BS case and she effectively said so herself before bacde even responded so... yeah. Not worth reading.

Bulb, tell me you don't see how you are stretching bad play and painting it as scumminess...

Bacde, you really think that Bo was saying he'd vote either of Autti and Klick and both were his buddies.

[Egg]

*sigh*

Princess just admitted in her post directed at bacde that she isn't playing to win. All she wants is meta info for future games.

I haven't fully read everything since my last post but I feel like she's ruined the integrity of that playerslot with that and the whole bet thing... this is frustrating.

[Egg]

Actually, so many people are so convinced that you are scum that there is almost no useful analysis to take from your wagon. I say that as someone who uses VCA TM pretty regularly.

[Egg]

Syryana, the main reason I'm not doubting myself or looking into things or anything as far as my thene read is that I've put him on the backburner for today. I'm not too worried about it because I think he's mafia. As I said already, today is a wolf hunting day.

Bulb, are you saying mafia with no NK and 1 member is a bigger threat than wolf with a NK? Why would I NOT focus on wolf today? It doesn't make sense.

By "bad play", I mean princess.

[Egg]

Bulb, so you think I'm after town points? Because if that's the case, I don't really have a way to defend that. If you think my town play and wolf play would look the same, I really can't even disagree.

Syryana, who is scum if princess flips town? (Funny thing is I wrote that before I read princess ask it but it still applies because you didn't answer) *sigh*

Sucks when a lynch on town is pretty much inevitible.

[Egg]

Sucks when a lynch on town is pretty much inevitible.

So you believe Princess to be town now?

Thought that was obvious after the bet offer and after she said she's playing for future meta rather than to win although without the first, the second could actually be scum who knows they can't win.

The bet though. One of the reasons it's banned is because it's such a strong tell from an outside influence.

Most people are too worried about the way they are percieved to make a bet and not follow through. Most people won't give away financial information to people they don't know over the internet. Therefore, more times than not, a bet offer comes from someone who knows they will win the bet. So chances are princess was telling the truth and is not a wolf.

Could she be mafia? Theoretically, yes. But even before the bet offer, I had princessmafia as unlikely. And even if she is mafia, she's not today's lynch because she's not wolf.

So yeah. Basically, I'm pretty convinced she's town and won't be voting her.

[Egg]

Look where my vote is

[Egg]

I wasn't convinced she was the wolf. I was convinced that IF she was scum, she was the wolf. I was still debating on whether or not she was scum. I even said as much when Syryana asked me basically your same question. I pointed out stuff from princess that looked like shit and syryana asked why I wasn't voting princess. My answer was that I wasn't convinced she was scum. Then she did the whole bet thing.

[Egg]

She said that to avoid the modkill after my post listing the possibilities why she'd make the bet...

[Egg]

Or because everyone was saying she was the wolf...

[Egg]

ok so maybe she's mafia then.

I dunno.

No point arguing. She's gonna be lynched and we'll find out.

[Egg]

I mean he's a better lynch than princess but i'd rather hit the wolf. I'd be willing to vote him if it's him or princess.

[Egg]

If I wanted towncred, i'd just agree with everyone.

[Egg]

When you don't really need it that much it does. Nobody's really been pointing their fingers my way except bulb and maybe a brief mention or two here and there. So why bother ruffling feathers?

[Egg]

Kuribo, bulb is scum because:
-a lot of his posts don't seem genuine. This is especially true in his princess case. I don't think he honestly thinks she is scum. She's just a lynch that isn't him and will probably happen so he likes it. He's painting bad play to look scummy.
-he reacted to blatant seer crumbs by fuzzy (who has since flipped scum) by voting him. Although looking back if he was werewolf he'd have known fuzzy wasn't the seer and if he was mafia he wouldn't have cared as much so while this was one of my major points, it's no longer valid.
-I was trying to convince the wolves to shoot for mafia by making it look like it helps both us and them and bulb told me it was scummy to try to direct scum's kill. I think he saw what I was doing and tried to discredit it (although that's more a mafia tell than werewolf I guess).
-connections to fuzzy. I explain this in post 153.
-Day 1, his icebox vote didn't appear genuine at all.

[Egg]

Just lynch bulb tomorrow.

Not princess. Princess is still confirmed not wolf from the bet.

And syryana is confirmed town from Mod interactions.

This town has no excuse for losing. We're still in a very good spot.

While bacde looks town, don't let him slip into a fake "confirmed" territory. He could still be scum.

Goodmmorning might be scum.

DO NOT FORGET that Kuribo is thene and probably mafia.

That's pretty much all I got. Sorry I never caught up today.

[Egg]

Oh wait that's only L-1.

Can we make a deal? I'll self-hammer if princess isn't lynched until there's:
A) a werewolf flip AND
B) a good case why she fits as Bo and Klick's buddy.

And I want a guarantee syryana doesn't get lynched.

[Egg]

Mac, I'm not caught up. I've read like two kuribo posts. So my read is entirely based on thene's play and the connection to Bo.

Bulb, that arguement makes zero sense. Even if I was scum, i'd have no living buddies. There'd be no way to know who else is scum and no reason to protect them. You are pushing whatever you can to make sure you survive.

unvote, vote egg

[Egg]

It's a loaded question based on nothing but BS.

You say "protecting scum" because it sounds good.

But there are two teams with one member each. The only reason to "protect scum" is if it is your scumbuddy. No one in this game has living scumbuddies.

You are throwing shit out there just for the sake of it.

[Egg]

Bulb, show me where princess and syryana were confirmed as scum. A Mod post or guilty result will do just fine.

Kuribo, I'm not caught up. I don't have nearly as much free time as I did when I first started playing mafia five years ago. I've seen the same thing happen to CKD and CTD. Greyice not so much, but still. It can happen. That's why I hardly play anymore and if I do it's only one game. But trust me when I say after roughly 200 games I can catch the tells that are 99% accurate like syryana's and princess's. If they both survive to endgame, we can't lose. That's why I desperately want this princess lynch to not happen.

[Egg]

unvote, vote kuribo

Cuz why the fuck not.

No one wants to lynch me to leave princess and syryana alive. No one wants to lynch bulb. I don't think goodmorning has been voted.

Wouldn't it be hilarious to watch kuribo piss and moan that he's being mislynched and then we see his scum flip.

I'm sure it won't happen because princess is being lynched but it would be insanely funny.

By the way DGB always says I'm scum when I'm town. Then again she says everyone is scum at one point throughout each game.

[Egg]

Dont hide now beetlejuice, you werent too fucking busy to read when i memtioned your name


i had way more to read than you and im caught up


its only getting worse from here you scum fuck

Meh. Wasn't gonna catch up cuz I thought I was being lynched but since the princess wagon came back I'll do it tomorrow morning/afternoon.

Preview edit: lol

[Egg]

I'm probably damn close to 100% on DGB. I remember one game where everyone thought DGB and Spy were obvtown and I said both were scum. Spy was scum. DGB was town. That's the only game I can remember being wrong on DGB.

Also, lunch break at work. Easy to pick up the phone and respond to 2-3 posts. Not so easy to go over the 5-10 pages I haven't read.

[Egg]

IT CAN REPLY TO ME BUT IT CANNOT READ

NOW PUT THE FUCKING LOTION ON ITS SKIN OR ELSE IT GETS THE HOSE AGAIN

Hey kuribo, remember when everyone had Nibbler as their avatars?

[Egg]

Quote where I said any of that

Why are you protecting scum?

[Egg]

Bulb, "universal scum read" doesn't mean "scum". You are making a big leap from that statement to your question.

I'm worrying now more than ever that you guys are going to let Bulbscum tear this game open and win.

[Egg]

Bulb, I am sure enough that princess and syryana are town that if lynching me could keep them alive, I was willing to do it. Two townies surviving to endgame is a guaranteed win. Winning is more important than survivng. But you'll just say I want town points so just remember it post game for future reference. Princess is being lynched today. Me tomorrow. Two NKs. If mafia isn't killed at night, we are looking at 2 town, 1 wolf, 1 mafia. Only way to win is lynching the wolf and mafia back to back with the mafia's help getting the wolf first. Sucks to see that happen when we started out so well.

[Egg]

This town is like a brick wall. No one considers whether things can be wrong or not. "Here's my scum read. Let's lynch it"

[Egg]

For the record, I've avoided joining games that Kuribo is in before...

[Egg]

In a hypothetical 3 player endgame where princess and syryana are there and assumed town, the third player gets lynched and town wins. It doesn't matter who it is as long as they are town. I've said why I'm so sure they are town more than enough times and am being shot down by the two people I think are scum.

No one cares enough to look at these things hence the brick wall.

[Egg]

*sigh*

[Egg]

I know that name but I can't remember if I played with you or not.

[Egg]

Shit. Ignore that dumb comment. I know the name because of the author, not the mafiascum username. That's what happens when you wake up, roll over and grab your phone, and post.

[Egg]

Why 3pm? Is there something she can say to change your mind? Do you value her last minute reads knowing she can't have scumbuddies? Do you expect a claim with no living power roles?

[Egg]

So tomorrow we are going to take her seriously even though today she's dangerous to take to endgame and all that?

I'm looking for where kuribo is coming from here more than anything...

[Egg]

This probably isn't the time for "I told you so" on princess but... just sayin'

I second bacde's "thx wolf" because I was pretty sure kuribo was scum.

Bacde, princess only had me as town because I had her as town. Basically a reverse OMGUS.

vote bulb

[Egg]

Top of the list is the most likely scum with town at the bottom:
Bulb
Goodmorning
Bacde
Mac
Syryana

[Egg]

Because of Mod interactions on Page 1. Although syryana almost seems to be trying not to step on bacde's toes on this page so I can't say I'm all that confident in too many of my reads except on bulb.

[Egg]

Ya' know...

If we take syryana's town reads on mac and bacde and trust those and trust that Syryana is town, that leaves bulb, goodmorning, and myself as syryana said. We are allowed one mislynch. That list would have 1 town, 1 mafia, and 1 werewolf in a perfect world. It's almost worth just lynching down that list.

Syryana, doesn't that Bo post make Bulb LESS likely to be mafia?

No time to read the rest of that post. I'll get to it on my lunch break in 2-3 hours.

[Egg]

Syryana, the gut scum read on fuzzy came from meta. I explained it in depth. He typically is genuinely trying hard to find scum even if he does so poorly. This game, that same effort seemed to have a focus on fitting in. While I caught a glimpse of this early on, it took a while for the read to actually develop fully. I didn't change my vote when I was behind on my read and by the time I caught up, I thought he'd crumbed seer and was trying to make sense of that whole situation.

I'm guessing he didn't respond to the initial suspicion because all I did is call it gut and I didn't even vote. There's no reason for him to feel threatened by that regardless of my alignment.

I'd also argue that the lynch was far from inevitible at the point where a few people called fuzzy's reaction an obvtown one.

[Egg]

Bulb, it doesn't have to be in any order. I won't object to going first if we use that list. And we have 1 mislynch to use with that list. If town is lynched first, it's 2:1:1. Then lynch wolf for 2:1 and mafia next. So yeah the wolf can't be the last one lynched. Since people think I'm wolf, I'll go first then you then goodmorning unless someone has a strong wolf case against goodmorning.

[Egg]

In mafia, you typically accept that your reads aren't perfect. That being said, who do you have as scum after a town flip from either syryana or myself?

[Egg]

Look. That post makes it clear there is no changing your mind. You are completely convinced I am scum. This is clear by the way you use "bus" and "vote" interchangably. You seem to have the same attitude towards bulb. Your reads seem similar to mine except that you have me as scum. I have you as a strong town read. Can you tell me why you haven't responded to my idea to just go down the list and lynch:
Me today
Bulb tomorrow
Goodmorning last
?

[Egg]

I'm here. Already happy with my vote. I've basically said all I need to say.

[Egg]

Mac, three of us made comments towards the wolf after the kuribo kill. What makes bacde's the "fake" one?

[Egg]

Lol

[Egg]

Yup

[Egg]

Waiting

[Egg]

Bulb, if I was wolf who was going to kill the mafia at night, I probably wouldn't be repeating over and over in thread that I think that person is mafia, especially when I'm not even pushing that lynch.

Bacde, bulb thinks I'm wolf. Mafia wins in unusual ways in this game. Bulb is suggesting that I am wolf who saw the Mod's post about how mafia can win and shot Kuribo trying to kill the mafia because I was very sure kuribo was mafia. See the first part of this post for my response to that. Also see how willing I have been to die to keep town alive (the princess lynch and my plan to lynch down syryana's list).

Preview edit: mac, *shrug*. Doesn't matter much to me. I'll switch if some townish people (you, syryana, maybe bacde) want me to.

[Egg]

No. The only problem is if he's wolf and is lynched tomorrow, mafia wins. I'd actually love to lynch the wolf today to give us two chances at mafia. But if we mislynch today, tomorrow needs to be about the mafia. Wait. Shit. Lemme check something.

6 alive. Mislynch=5. NK=4 (2t,1m,1w). Lynch wolf=2t/1m.
6 alive. Mislynch=5. NK=4 (2t,1m,1w) lynch mafia=2t/1w +NK. Wolf wins.

So yeah. Scratch that. Tomorrow is about the wolf if we mislynch today. And I have confidence that this town will lynch Bulb without me in that situation. I don't want to speculate too much past that but yeah. I'm cool with me/bulb in either order and I'm pretty confident that's the way it will play out.

[Egg]

Because it's more important to me that Bulb gets lynched than it is that I don't in a game where I'm not living to endgame anyway.

[Egg]

Bulb, what do you mean by "whether he thought kuribo was scum or not"? It should have been clear from Day 1 I thought that slot was scum. And why would I be worried about kuribo tunneling me with all of the other people that were saying I was scum?

If my response gets dismissed as WIFOM, so does your point. You are WIFOMing the kill so of course the response is going to be WIFOM. Now, I don't have a problem with WIFOM, but if you're going to use it, don't jump to dismissing my response because it's WIFOM.

Mac, why the Bacde vote?

[Egg]

Why would egg have killed DBK Bulba?

vote Bacde

I explained that earlier. Bo was a tricky slot to read. If he ended up being mafia, Egg took out another member of the mafia team. If Bo was town, Egg eliminated a potentially useful town player. It was a win-win.

OMG WIFOM.

[Egg]

But kuribo wasn't guaranteed to tunnel me the way you have been. If I just wanted one less vote on me, i'd have gone after you. And if I was wolf panicking because there's still mafia alive, and I've been pushing your lynch, doesn't that imly that I probably legitimately have thought you were scum this whole time? If I was wolf and my mind was going the way you think it was last night, it would have made more sense to shoot you than kuribo.

[Egg]

I don't see the difference between you pushing me and kuribo pushing me. Like why I should have been more scared of him. I'm just not getting this.

I have you as wolf although I wouldn't be shocked to see you flip mafia either.

[Egg]

That's because I was responding to a post that used a mindset of me being wolf. If I was wolf trying to shoot someone who was likely scum AND likely to tunnel on me, your earlier pushes on me combined with the fact that I've been pushing your lynch would make you the most likely NK in that case. And in that case, i'd probably have a legitimate scum read on you. If I was wolf, I couldn't have a legitimate wolf read on you.

[Egg]

Seriously?

I think you're wolf.

If I was wolf, I couldn't think you are wolf. That makes no sense. Therefore, if I were wolf with a legitimate scum read on you, i'd have to think you were mafia.

How dense can you be?

[Egg]

Bulb tomorrow.

Go town.