Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

[Klick]

/confirm

[Klick]

Also, this is gonna be my last game for a long time. We better win. Or else.

[Klick]

Hello, Egg. Have I ever played with you before?

[Klick]

Got an important RQS.

1. Are you Town? Give three sentences to explain your reasoning.
2. Who would you like to be Mafia with in this game?

[Klick]

@fuzzy: No, the second question was who you would like to be Mafia

with

.

[Klick]

Interesting hydra.

[Klick]

I have opinions. I want to wait for everyone to post at least once before I give them, though.

[Klick]

I'll go ahead and say this, as there's only one person who hasn't posted. Anyone who answered with only one partner for #2 has a high chance of being a Werewolf. The RQS has worked for me in this setup before - feel free to look it up. My name's kondi in those.

All I remember seeing was fuzzy and Icebox. However, since Icebox is a hydra and both heads answered with one partner, VOTE: Icebox.

This also means that those two have a very low chance of being Mafia. Also, anyone who didn't answer the question properly is probably some kind of scum because they're pretending to be lighthearted to look town.

PEdit: Not liking thenewearth so far.

[Klick]

Rem's "I'm town" WIFOM is completely null. As such, I'm going to stick with my original argument, which they did nothing to refute.

[Klick]

Rem, if that is true, you're going to lose as scum a LOT.

[Klick]

Yes, it is cheap. I also highly advise you stop doing it, as trust tells are unfun. UNVOTE:

Icebox is basically confirmed town.

VOTE: fuzzy

[Klick]

Remembrance is using a trust tell, and I highly doubt he wants to break it on this game.

Off-topic, @Rem: Please refrain from using trust tells in the future, for the fun of yourself and others. You will always be killed early as town and be lynched Day 1 as scum if you keep that play. We also don't want someone whose alignment is basically confirmed.

[Klick]

Egg, explain to me why Rem would break a tell like that so soon after joining the site. I mean seriously, please do. If there's a chance I'm wrong on them, I would very much like that lynch.

However, thenewearth is a good vote, and I'll consider joining it depending on how I read fuzzy later.

[Klick]

Rem then has no motivation to post that she always does that as town because it would soon be proven false.

[Klick]

This is now a matter of belief that Remembrance is being genuine. I'm just not seeing him go to such lengths to trick like that in one of their earlier games on the site.

Commentary on other things tomorrow.

[Klick]

I respectfully disagree and acknowledge that we have different points of view on this. This conversation will go nowhere, and you're not trying to vote him.

What do you think of fuzzy?

[Klick]

thenewearth, why am I obviously town?

I have to do homework, but I'll get to this rigt after?

[Klick]

No I agree with you. I've done nothing out of the norm for either alignment so far. Giving myself a fair read from thenewearth's arguments, the RQS thing is null because it's something I always do in this setup, and I'm pretty sure I've done it as scum before. It was a long time, though, so I dunno.

Anyway I'm on now, but it's 2:11 and I'm not going to get better reads right now. I'll do it sometime later today.

[Klick]

Long time ago*

[Klick]

@the bolded part: That's not really a plausible scumtell, since there are two scum teams.

PEdit: Directed at #215

[Klick]

Many apologies for not checking in in awhile, this has been an incredibly hectic week for me. However, I echo: what scum slip?

[Klick]

There actually is one way that I can easily determine if you're scum, Icebox, but it won't really be applicable until around Day 2 or 3.

Apologize for the shitty activity. If anyone has questions they want to ask me personally to get me started somewhere it would be really cool, but otherwise I'll try to get into this tonight. I have a busy weekend coming up, but I should be able to fit this in during nights.

[Klick]

What? O.o

[Klick]

Klick, top three scum reads and top three town reads with reasons.

Yay, you took the hint I'll do a quick reread and then finalize that. Without a reread, though, my top three scum reads would probably be fuzzy, thenewearth, and zach, in that order. Town reads would be Egg, Mac, and DBK. None of my reads really feel solid, though, besides fuzzy and Egg.

[Klick]

Couldn't that line of reasoning be used to nullify any town read ever, though? It's the likeliness that someone would do something as scum that determines a read.

Philosophy aside, I'm going to a musical soon. The reads post will definitely happen tonight.

[Klick]

He also had scum and town reads before a flip in that game.
VOTE: zachattack

Wow fuzzy... You've been sheeping the popular wagon lately. Scum much?

It's like you two are competing to be lynched.

[Klick]

Doing this now. I've had a really big day, so don't expect this to be much.

---

Reviewing my RQS, I want to say that anyone who gave one person to Question 2 is likely a wolf, but I also want to say that anyone who answered two people in a way that made it seem like they consciously knew there were three mafia has a bigger chance of being mafia.

2. Fuzzy because he's always obvtown. And zach.

Slight mafia lean from this answer.

2. Bulbazak and Klick. I've played with both and they're interesting to play with.

Slight mafia lean from this answer, weakened by the fact that he showed knowledge of the setup in his first answer.

2.) I'd like to see Egg be mafia. I've never played with him, but he knows me. O.O

Wolf lean from this answer.

2) klick!

Wolf lean from this answer. Stronger due to showing setup knowledge in the first question, as he still slipped up the amount of mafia players.

2. I'd have liked to be mafia with Mac But wishes are for fishes.

Stronger wolf lean due to both of them doing it.

2. Maestro and Eddie Fenix

Mafia lean. Even though they aren't actual players here, he consciously knew the amount of partners.

2. Anyone but Fuzzy. HE JUST LOST US 1337 AND HE WASN'T EVEN ALIVE! Now

that's

talent.

Completely null answer.

---

I was gonna go through everyone's posts, but I'm tired, so I think I'm gonna cut to the point and go through why fuzzy is scum.

oh hey, this is a thing now.

VOTE: Klick

eh, why not?

This just feels wrong. The "eh" seems to only be added for show.

Tell me what Klick has done to

not

be scummy.

Since when can scum not promise things?

Since when does my play

not

make your gut feel bad?

Umm...

And then, the already-mentioned opportunistic vote:

He also had scum and town reads before a flip in that game.
VOTE: zachattack

...along with his RQS answer, I think I'm still right in my vote.

---

To shorten other thoughts, I'm gonna keep an eye on Bulb and Icebox due to RQS stuff, but other than that, I'm too tired to do much else. But I do remember that while skimming, something caught my attention in a post by zach, and it gave me a slight scum lean.

Reads list:

TOWN
Me
Syryana
Egg
Mac?
DBK?

SOME TYPE OF SCUM
zach
TNE?

MAFIA
Bulb?

WOLF
fuzzy
Icebox?

NULL
Mac
Autti
BEF

So, maybe Bulb/zach/TNE as Mafia and fuzzy/Icebox as Wolves? But I remember some combination of TNE/zach/fuzzy felt weird being on the same team for some reason. (Gonna start taking notes separately as I'm skimming instead of just putting small comments in posts, it'll help me not forget stuff)

[Klick]

It really only works in this setup (or in some other open multiball with uneven teams...)

[Klick]

Hi Bacde.

Setup stuff - It's 7 Town (1 Seer), 3 Mafia (No kill), and 2 Werewolves (Kill).

And you should ignore your townread on fuzzy and vote him today. You may be right on DBK, but fuzzy is scum.

[Klick]

Holy shit, it's been four days.

@Bacde (I assume): Werewolves are better to lynch first because lynching them gets rid of the NK and makes the game Nightless.

[Klick]

The Wolves' kill is both not directed by town and more likely to hit Town than Mafia. Sure, the Seer can find the Wolves, but that just lets them get caught faster.

[Klick]

I do agree that the Mafia is a more social threat, but it's not as bad of one as the Wolves.

[Klick]

lol

VOTE: Icebox

[Klick]

By the way, does anyone know how balanced 7:3 Nightless is?

Us = Town
Mafia: them.

Strong town players being Nked = bad for town.

But not for Mafia...?

[Klick]

Bacde thank you for joining this game

[Klick]

Bacde thank you for joining this game

thanks for the thanks

but I gotta ask why?

You're entertaining.

@Klick: Back on Fuzzy, I want him at L-1. Thank you.

um

[Klick]

Sure, I'll humor you.

VOTE: fuzzy

[Klick]

Icebox, can I ask why you wanted fuzzy at L-1 now?

[Klick]

VOTE: Icebox

[Klick]

Actually, Icebox is right lol

TNE, I actually think we should listen to Icebox. Willing to do it?

VOTE: fuzzy

[Klick]

Bacde, your reasoning is terrible (if I'm right in assuming that you think any Mafia player would say it's better to hunt for Werewolves).

VOTE: Icebox

Why did you want fuzzy at L-1, exactly? I didn't really get anything from that.

[Klick]

I heard opportunism.

Exactly what reason would I, as scum, need to be opportunistic at this point? I was already on fuzzy, which was a bigger wagon than Icebox. Unless you're suggesting I'm his partner?

[Klick]

I heard opportunism.

Exactly what reason would I, as scum, need to be opportunistic at this point? I was already on fuzzy, which was a bigger wagon than Icebox. Unless you're suggesting I'm his partner?

dude stop being so confirmed scum :s

why did people townread klick (this is the first i've heard of townreads on klick)

Stop being kuribo. (yes, this is as much of a shrug-off answer as you're giving me)

Considering switching to Icebox, but Klick hasn't explained how his process had changed from "basically confirmed town" to "lol vote Icebox"

First of all, I said that he would be readable around the end of Day 2/3. Second, slips tend to make people look like scum.

PEdit: -_-

PEdit2: VOTE: fuzzy

[Klick]

Officially ignoring Bacde because his reasoning is retarded. Anything he says that others would like to hear the answer to can be repeated.

Mac, what is your reason for voting me besides opportunism?

PEdit: Same question to DBK.

[Klick]

Hey, Klick!

I heard opportunism.

Exactly what reason would I, as scum, need to be opportunistic at this point? I was already on fuzzy, which was a bigger wagon than Icebox. Unless you're suggesting I'm his partner?

who suggested that?

the opportunism stands because as soon as someone says "scum slip!!!" then all attention is focused on said scumslip and player. voting him early means you can blame it directly on whoever pointed it out if they were to flip town.

now tell me, where is the town motivation in not looking at all possibilities behind a possible slip?

also lol at "scum slip from Icebox but vote fuzzy"

That was a terrible slip. I don't feel there are many other possibilities. Since the next question will be "Then why aren't you voting Icebox now?", it's because he claimed Seer, and risking lynching the Seer is a terrible idea regardless of the person's previous actions.

The last sentence answers most of what was said while I was making this post.

[Klick]

Hey, Klick!

I heard opportunism.

Exactly what reason would I, as scum, need to be opportunistic at this point? I was already on fuzzy, which was a bigger wagon than Icebox. Unless you're suggesting I'm his partner?

who suggested that?

the opportunism stands because as soon as someone says "scum slip!!!" then all attention is focused on said scumslip and player. voting him early means you can blame it directly on whoever pointed it out if they were to flip town.

now tell me, where is the town motivation in not looking at all possibilities behind a possible slip?

also lol at "scum slip from Icebox but vote fuzzy"

That was a terrible slip. I don't feel there are many other possibilities. Since the next question will be "Then why aren't you voting Icebox now?", it's because he claimed Seer, and risking lynching the Seer is a terrible idea regardless of the person's previous actions.

The last sentence answers most of what was said while I was making this post.

there are possibilities though and it is town-motivated to consider them. something which you didn't do.

This doesn't mean that it's more likely for scum to not consider them. I am a very slip-influenced person. See for example the recently-finished Polygamist Mafia, where I very confidently called Marangal town from the beginning.

[Klick]

Yes it does.

Scum see "scumslip" and know that all eyes will be on this player and there is a chance they could be lynched. They hop on, they don't consider anything else.

Three reasons this is bad. 1. Fuzzy was already about to be lynched, so doing that would be unnecessary. 2. This is multi ball, and scum are looking for scum too. 3. I already said I'm very influenced by slips.

[Klick]

Your responses are based on opinion and therefore impossible to refute.

[Klick]

And all of the points are relevant. Mac is saying it's not town motivated for me to be convinced that Icebox's slip is real, and I'm providing proof that it can be.

[Klick]

When I'm dead, look at the immediate switch between me being a universal townread and there being a call for my death. That said, Bacde and Mac are very likely town. That leaves fuzzy, DBK, and TNE as suspects.

[Klick]

Considering Posts #705-706, no.

(inb4irespondedtoyousoiliedsoimscummy)

[Klick]

So I have the following as very strong town reads:

Bacde
Mac
Icebox (regrettably)
Egg

That leaves 5/7 scum. In that, I'm confident that fuzzy is scum. GM, DBK, Autti, and TNE would be my other scum picks, in order of scumminess. Syry and Bulb both feel town, but I'm not sure.

I've pretty much lost interest in this game and in Mafia in general, so I don't really care who you lynch first between fuzzy and I, seeing as we're both going to be lynched regardless.

[Klick]

This was gonna be my last game anyway, so it's not your fault that I'm demotivated here. Your pressure did get me to be more confident in my reads, though.

[Klick]

VOTE: Autti

Sheeping until either something looks better or I see a reason that Autti is town. With 4/10 scum and a ton of townreads, this seems simple.

[Klick]

@Bacde: I have evidence that shows that I am a strong supporter of killing slips. Therefore, how is that a strong scumtell?

[Klick]

Well, I can explain it first

when I replaced into the game, everyone was hounding on icebox, thinking icebox was scum

there was also a clamor on fuzzy

Now I sorta make an assumption when I join games, I assume that the entire town is wrong and that the biggest bandwagon is on town. I know this isn't always true, but its what I do because it causes everyone to have a big reaction to me which helps me get reads.

so I assumed both fuzzy and icebox were town

But I wanted to reaction test, and icebox posted something that was a little awkward that someone called him out for being a slip, so I acted like it was a big deal and was a slip (and even posted a large image of stick figures playing football that said "FUMBLE!!"). Whats interesting is that I was TOTALLY supportive of wagoning icebox vocally, but I never voted icebox, because I was just trying to see how people would react. I never actually thought icebox made a slip, it was just awkward phrasing.

While I was doing that, not only did Klick vote for, push on, and be confident about icebox being scum for his slip, he ALSO lauded me for joining the game saying that I make the game more entertaining. That set off my scum-dar as I once played in a klick-modded game before as town and pretty much guaranteed a scum-victory with my poor play (I've gotten better since then )

This doesn't add up because I voted Icebox before there was any other support for his slip. You hadn't posted about it yet.

Also, here's a prime example of me strongly believing in slips.

On a different note, @Bulba: Can you tell me why Egg is suspicious? I have him as a strong townread from early play.

[Klick]

On the topic of lynching either a Mafia or a Wolf, I still think that it's advantageous to lynch the Wolf. The only reason to try not to lynch him is if we assume he's going to kill Mafia at night, which currently has a 1/3 chance of happening, and will either be 3/8 or 1/4 (or 0 if he's dead) come night. Otherwise, we're hurting ourselves leaving him alive.

However, I think Wolf-hunting itself is about as useful as SK-hunting here. It's unlikely to happen.

Autti's still likely scum, along with GM, DBK, and TNE.

[Klick]

Okay, I really don't care enough about this right now to search through my meta and show where I've been for killing slips. I'll do it later, but if you really care, you can look yourself until I do.

Meanwhile, you still didn't respond to the post where I said you were lying about trying to reaction-test me.

[Klick]

I understand that you're scum radar is broken today--

Oh wait... because you're scum, you don't need a radar

Correction - the scum here do need a radar.

Thinking Autti and TNE as Mafia right now. One of {GM, DBK} is the third Mafia, and the other is the Werewolf. Leaning GM-Mafia with that group.

Really, I'm doing a lot of homework right now, but there's an attempt at thinking things through.

[Klick]

Mac is pretty obviously town. Egg is a maybe, but I'm not really sold on it because Egg looked really town yesterday. GM's slot was scummy yesterday, and I forgot why DBK was scummy, but I think it was mostly PoE.

[Klick]

@Egg: That was my intention. Bacde is saying that the meta is indicative of scum.

[Klick]

It was mentioned by other people, I never actually said the word "slip." -_-

I'll go through my meta and give you a list if I have free time tonight. Sound good?

[Klick]

VOTE: Klick

[Klick]

I think this is an appropriate time for my "Bah!" post.