Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

[Syryana]

VOTE: Mac
For having the shortest name on the playerlist.

[Syryana]

Oh. I took open to mean started.

[Syryana]

I'm trained to automatically start posting when I get a PM that says "the thread is here". -.-
VOTE: zabriel
/confirm

[Syryana]

Just messin with ya Zabe. It's your game, run it how you like. i'll just derp along and you can yell at me later

[Syryana]

A dick? Me? Whatever gave you that idea?

[Syryana]

I'm baaaaaack! Six pages? Cool.

I'm liking Icebox and fuzzy for wolves thanks to Klick's RQS.
I dislike how Klick decided to throw over his own evidence on Icebox in favor of a null trust tell.
I don't like people who use trust tells in general.
People are really loving the "towntells" this game. About the only one I might give credence to is Mac's, but those sorts of towntells I dismiss from players that have completed more than a couple games. Any experienced player can fake that.

I think fuzzy slipped here:

Autti has a point. Werewolves will hunt mafia. Mafia will hunt werewolves. Town will hunt both.

Autti makes a generic statement about everybody scumhunting and the first thing that pops into fuzzy's head is werewolves. It's weak, but combine that with the single scumbuddy slip from RQS and his cocky "I'm not

that

terrible as scum" and mix well, we have a fuzzywolf.

Egg, why does my interaction with the mod make me town? I get the idea that a mod wouldn't want to out a scum by accident, but I don't really see how the brief interaction between myself and the mod would be indicative of alignment either way.

TNE trying way too hard to appear town in his answer to RQS. Probscum.

Zach's recent post pinged hard for me:

I think Klick nailed the werewolves. Fuzz and Icebox are the two scummiest looking players aside from the RQS, so that pushes it over the top. I don't like Fuzz because of his "I'm super good as scum, I promise!".

I just plain don't like hydras. The partner blame looks like every scum hydra I've seen.

I'm good with either vote.

I don't want to vote for TNE. That looks like it could pick up.

He doesn't feel scummy to me.

I bolded the parts that I don't like. Not liking Icebox and fuzzy because of Klick's case is fine but his second reason to dislike Icebox is BS. I don't like Icebox because of RQS, the supposed trust tell, the self-meta (reeeeeeaaaaaallly don't like self-meta). Them being a hydra is a terrible reason to suspect them. The partner blame thing is a fair point, but I've seen it come from town and scum hydras alike, so I consider it more null.

Furthermore, I don't like zach's reason to not vote TNE. Why doesn't he look scummy to you, zach? Why does it "picking up" bother you? I assume "picking up" means "turning into a wagon", so why do you care if a wagon forms on TNE?

Bulba, if you're using the word scum in the broadest sense, why call the scumteam a team of 3 and not 5? Town should be thinking of scum in terms of anti-town factions, which given two teams of 3 and 2 respectively means five anti-town slots. Your reference to the scum as a single team of three is highly suspect.

VOTE: fuzzybutternut

@mod, can we get a VC please?

I could also go for a wagon on TNE, Icebox, Bulba or zach if one should appear.

[Syryana]

Whatcha like about it, Audi Autti?

[Syryana]

Although i think fuzzy as werewolf is a bit of a stretch. I took his "im good at scum" comment as a just watch me comment as i said before. I think its tough to say that because he mentioned werewolfs first hes a wolf and not mafia.

Interesting. If you took fuzzy's comment as "just watch me", would that not imply he's scum (or at least that you think he is)? Not much point in watching him to see how good his scumplay is if he's town.

[Syryana]

I'm totally down with TNE pressure. Let's do eet!

VOTE: TNE

Egg, I'd love to provide links, but it's an ongoing. Sorry. Also, why call Mac's vote OMGUS? I didn't get an OMGUS vibe from it.

[Syryana]

I'll cede that it was an OMGUS vote. We can agree to disagree on his reply to you after calling it OMGUS. I'm just not getting scummy vibes from it the way you are.

[Syryana]

You do realise that the RVS post wasn't completely serious. The only serious bit was Egg/Syrnana which I found strange.

After reading Icebox's post, I noticed you'd asked why I'd RVS'd you and not Egg.

Answer: Your name was higher on the playerlist.

Icebox: You think TNE is town, correct? Do you have any reasons that aren't purely meta? (in unrelated news, I like your post formatting)

We should also poke BEF with a stick. He hasn't said anything since pre-game.

@Mod, I noticed in your rules that players can request prods. Can those prods be requested before the 72 hour mark? If yes, I am requesting a prod on BEF.

[Syryana]

Wtf do you mean, has robots in it?

Pedit: Damnit Bo.

[Syryana]

Sorry, Syryana. I post fairly frequently around this hour.

It's k. :p

Icebox, I personally don't like the spoiler format. Just use quotes with your text underneath. As for game related stuff, I'm not so sure I like how you make a couple of points against thene but still call him town for the meta tell.

That's kinda where I was going with my questions about meta being the only town-tell lol. Just hadn't worked my way to the conclusion yet XD.

[Syryana]

Hey Bo. Go click the link in Autti's post. I promise you'll figure it out.

[Syryana]

If you click the #167 link in his post, it links to another game called Robots.

[Syryana]

It's not as far as I can tell. Probably a URL fuckup. I would never have noticed if Bulba hadn't made mention of it in his oh-so-roundabout manner.

[Syryana]

@Mod, can we get a VC please?

Will get with this game again tonight or tomorrow.

[Syryana]

In other news, does anybody remember when the deadline is? I feel as if we need to be getting our act together.

DL is 14 days(from the game rules post), it's been like three since game start. Though...

Zabe, can we get a countdown timer added to the VC's pwease? Thanks!

In other news, I shall catch up with this game fully tomorrow.

[Syryana]

Okay, more or less caught up now. Sorry for the inattention folks; end of April is always hell for me.

So, top scumspects: Fuzzy, Zach. Fuzzy for his opportunistic TNE vote and those other reasons I outlined in my previous post (#146 I think?). However:

Zach has now called TNE town twice for meta reasons (scum or dumb was the phrase Zach used iirc). While I do sort of agree with Zach that TNE isn't the best lynch today, I don't get two things about his(zach's) play thus far. First, why is he WKing TNE so hard thus far? I don't think TNE is a good lynch today, but zach has been pretty adamant about not lynching TNE (five of his seven posts say he doesn't want to lynch TNE, TNE is his "strongest town read", etc.).

The other thing that bugs me is his declaration in #325 that he's not got any reads on most of the players, minus TNE. Uh, in 14 pages you don't have any kind of opinion on any players except TNE? And the reason you're citing for this is that most people's motivations are WIFOM? Surely you have some gut reads, no? Not to mention your "favorite town read" could have the same logic applied to him. For example, you claim "scum or dumb, and he's dumb" as your towntell on TNE. Well, as many games as TNE has played in, don't you think he might be aware enough of his own meta to play that way as scum? Hell, he's aware enough of his own playstyle to have "I'm always inconsistent" in his sig.

I've played a game with zach before (Open 486). Granted, it's one game, but it does show something interesting. If you take a look at zachISO in that game, you'll notice that he was comfortable calling fuzzy town by post #168 thanks to some setup derp that fuzzy was perpetuating. If he really believed that crock he was saying about WIFOM motivations, he'd have had fuzzy as null in that game at that point in time.

In short, I think this is scumZach trying to emulate townZach.

VOTE: zachattack

[Syryana]

He also had scum and town reads before a flip in that game.
VOTE: zachattack

Holy opportunism, Batman!
VOTE: fuzzybutternut

[Syryana]

Why Auttiscum, DBK?

[Syryana]

Why Auttiscum, DBK?

Super fence sitting for a lot of the game. Just calling things suspicious. Anyone can call things suspicious. He seemed to be slipping under the radar for most of the game too (something scum likes to do). When I asked for reads he gave two town reads and two scum reads...I think. Even though he's called suspicious things out for multiple players all game.

Hmm. I don't remember getting this vibe from Autti's posts. AuttiISO time!

[Syryana]

Hey DBK, does anybody on that list lean one way or the other?

[Syryana]

Rem, would you mind quoting yourself using your hydra? Thanks.

[Syryana]

I reread Autti, Bo. I did see what you mean about him fencesitting a lot. Also very odd that he's suspicious of zach and fuzzy but doesn't mention them in his #355. Definitely puts him in the suspicious pile.

However, I'm more interested in Icebox's recent posts.

Reads:

Town:
Klick
DBK (Consistency in strategy, active poster, catching the same things I am and posting them faster than I can)
TNE From GIF. I have serious difficulty reading him.

Lean town:
Zach: For post, full of paranoia. Scum know things, town don't! That's why they're always, always paranoid.
Syrana: Whilst hard working, there are two factions in this game that have an especially great need to hunt, Mafia and Town. His cases are convincing enough that I don't really feel he has the right motivation to be a werewolf. But this doesn't exclude maf.

Why is Klick town? Why is zach's paranoia indicative of townieness? If my scumhunting makes you think it's possible I might be mafia, why doesn't that apply to the scumhunting your main townreads have done?

[Syryana]

Hey Bo, is the reason you're reading fuzzy as town now due to meta and the fact that he's sticking to his guns?

Icebox, if you were wrong about fuzzy, who is scum? I see in your #367 your only other read is Autti and that's a slight scumread.

Brief thoughts: I'm not agreeing with Bo that fuzzy is town. I've played with him as town before too a couple times and though I do agree he votes people with what I can only describe as "fuzzylogic" (teehee) and sticks to his guns like he's doing here, I can't get past is his opportunism. In the games I played with him, I don't ever recall him being swayed by a case that fast, no matter how good the case was. Also, I noticed another interesting tidbit while I was ISO'ing fuzzy:

UNVOTE:

Klick is town.

Hmm. Klick is town.

Egg, if I was unsure about my vote, I would unvote. If it was a contrived vote, there would be no doubt in your mind that it was contrived.

Two nearly identical posts, over 275 posts apart. I feel like he forgot his townread on Klick. I don't understand why he would forget, particularly in the light of the fact that Klick hadn't really said anything in the interim. The bolded part of the second post also strengthens my thoughts about his opportunism in voting zach. He seems damned sure zach is scum. I thought my case was decent, but I don't see how he's so sure now, particularly since Icebox had a decent point about town paranoia in their post responding to my questioning their townread on zach.

[Syryana]

Since when does paranoia = town? Scum can't be paranoid? And How does it look like I forgot that klick was town? I literally said the exact same thing.

I said it was a decent point. It wasn't enough to clear zach by any stretch of the imagination, but it was enough to make me reevaluate his play. As indecisive as you usually are it surprised me that you were as certain in your case as you were.

Also, it was the posts being identical that made me notice. There wasn't any reason to repeat yourself since you'd said nothing about Klick between the first and the second. Ergo, I think you forgot Klick was town.

[Syryana]

No. I was asked for reads, so I gave reads. I didn't forget anything.

Not in the posts I was quoting you weren't. You were in no way that I can see prompted for your #398.

[Syryana]

I'm going to catch up with this game tonight or tomorrow. Have to finish up with some papers before I can properly commit time to this.

[Syryana]

Wow, I leave you people alone for a day and you make 12 pages of content, christ. Catching up now.

[Syryana]

Okay, points of intersest as I read the thread (also notes for later):

Spoiler: my notes, read at your peril

Survivalist fuzzy is survivalist, why hasn't it been lynched yet #463
This cannot possibly be town #467
Why is Bo making excuses for fuzzy? #468 and #474
Autti's catch up post in #477 is awful, first paragraph feels apologetic, don't like his praise of DBK's case on him (can't really articulate why, just gives me bad vibes), second paragraph gives me "scum irritated he's caught for the wrong reasons" vibes. We can lynch this guy too.
Bulba's seriously tunneling Icebox, his reasoning's getting vacuous and his evaluation of fuzzy's play seems pretty lame compared to his efforts on his own Icebox case #478 and #486 Maybe partners with fuzzy?
A wild Klick appears! #498
Mafia are a social threat? #507. The hell does that mean?
Personal opinion, I don't care which flavor of scum should be lynched since we have to get rid of all of them before we win anyways. Need to keep one wolf around for the NK until we nail a mobster or two though. I'm not terribly optimistic about 7:3 nightless.
Wow, wolf slip much Icebox? #508
Stupidly fast vote from Klick. What the hell happened to the "trust tell" where Icebox was definitely town?
How isn't it a slip, Bo? Icebox straight up said protecting strong townies is a disadvantage. #520
God, fuzzy's trying so hard to look nonchalant. It's getting worse, why isn't he dead yet. #530
Icebox trying to out fuzzy as the seer? Da faq?
People are being really obtuse about semantics. TNE, Bo, Mac. Good lord, it was a pretty blatant slip by Icebox. A small grammar mistake I can understand, but you'd have to change the entire sentence to get it looking remotely town. Hmm....
Fuzzy wants reads from Bacde, doesn't do anything with it. #615
Aw fuck. #619
Bacde is def not a werewolf, protecting the seer. Could be scum, keeping seer alive is #1 scum priority
I feel like the thread is being derailed by other-game talk. Derailers: Fuzzy, TNE, Bacde, GM.
Ignoring GM's catch up post until reasoning is posted. Lots of feelings with no justifications are garbage.
Autti is afk for 10 pages and #742 is all he has to say? Active lurking and scum. He needs to die if not fuzzy.
GM doesn't have time to read past page 10, but has time to talk about completed games and question Autti and stuff? #744
I really like Egg's #756
Wait, Bacde's asking for CCs now? #759
Fake not-wolf-tell is fake. Also, explain those reads, fuzzy. #761

Hokay. List of reads based off latest notes (in no particular order):

Town:
Egg
Icebox
DBK

Leaning town:
Bacde

Null:
Mac

Leaning scum:
Klick
TNE
GM

Definitely scum:
fuzzybutternut
Autti
Bulbazak

Fuzzy is scum, no doubt in my mind. Read my notes or previous posts to figure out why I think this. Autti is also scum. He's been actively lurking, I didn't like his #477, and after 12 pages of some pretty loaded content all he has to say is "why Klick wagon, gaiz". Bulbazak got really quiet after Icebox's claim. He's around and posting, but his responses after the claim have been very curt. Considering how hardcore he was going after Icebox prior to the claim, his silence surprises me. No opinions on Klick? No opinions on Icebox's claim? Is the claim legit? Are the other wagons legit? I think Bulba felt he had a good case on Icebox and pushed hard. When he discovered Icebox was the seer, he freaked out and got really quiet. Why? It's the main reason I think Bulba is scum; no reason to fade off into the background after your major scumread claims a PR unless you're trying to hide.

Leaning scum reads: Klick because I don't trust his flipflops on Icebox. His RQS gives him wolf leans on Icebox, he reverses the read by accepting Icebox's trust tell, he reverses it again by restating his RQS. His vote on Icebox could be construed as opportunistic, but I'm not reading too much into that as it was a hell of a scumslip. GM is leaning scum because I had a scumread on her predecessor Zach and I really don't like her unexplained catchup post. The contents of the p1-10 spoiler make me scratch my head, as do her reads. Will devolve to a definite scumread if she doesn't have some damn good explanations. TNE was also an early scumread of mine largely due to his trying so hard to look town in RQS. His ISO is pretty... thin. There's just not a whole lot of substance for me to work with, so I'm sticking to my early scumread on him.

Leaning town reads: Bacde I like for town thus far, particularly due to his protection of the seer and calling for no CCs. However, he did flipflop on his desire to have no CCs in #759 and then flopped back in #767. I've got little question marks around him largely due to the flipflops and the fact that mafia has a very solid reason to keep the seer alive as long as possible so I'm not ready to call him completely town yet.

Mac's null. I've read his ISO a couple of times now and damned if I see anything really alignment indicative either way. I'll probably revisit him after we get some flips.

Egg has been a pretty solid read of mine most of the game thus far. He's been making a genuine effort to understand people's thought processes this game and I think the town motivation behind his posts is pretty clear. Some folks have made arguments for him being mafia but I don't think they have much merit. Icebox gets a confirmed town read for the moment thanks to his claim. DBK has been giving me townvibes all game: good questions, scumhunting, pressuring his scumreads. I have question marks on his interpretation of Icebox's slip.

My vote's on fuzzy and I see no reason to change it at this time. Would be willing to swap to another scumread if we get close to the deadline and still haven't got a lynch.

Pedit: Autti is even more definitely scum

[Syryana]

Pedit: Autti is even more definitely scum

Lies. I've actually been very attentively reading this game. Although when Bacde joined i'm now 5 pages behind. I just haven't had that much to post. I try to be a quality over quantity person. Although it seems my case on Icebox was so very very bad. Oh well.

Proof positive you are actively lurking.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Autti

[Syryana]

Eh. Do you really think i'm scummier than Fuzzy?

You're both damned scummy. I don't see us getting a counterwagon on you though, not this close to deadline. You're gonna die tomorrow.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: fuzzy

@Syr: why do you think keeping the seer alive is scum priority?
Seer without werewolves is basically a clear that mafias won't be able to get rid of.

I think keeping the seer alive is priority for mafia right now because they're trading one obvtown spot for free werewolf lynches. They get town cred for getting heat off the seer, they keep the only guaranteed method of finding wolves from being lynched and the obvtown spot is irrelevant since the wolves have to kill the seer anyways. It's pretty much made to order for mafia survival. That's why I'm not giving free townpasses to people defending you right now.

[Syryana]

Hay gaiz. That wasn't a hammer.

[Syryana]

Hay Bulba. Can we get a current reads list based off dem ISOs you went to go read? Thanx.

[Syryana]

Autti/Klick/G_M

choose 1 to lynch everybody today is going to be a great day

This.

VOTE: Autti

[Syryana]

Will catch up with this game later this evening, gotta get up on me large games first

[Syryana]

Alrighty, more or less read up now.
Conf-town:
Icebox -

seer

Conf-scum:
Fuzzy -

werewolf

Town:
DBK
Bacde

Leaning town:
Egg

Null:
Mac

Leaning scum:
TNE

Definitely scum:
GM
Autti
Bulbazak
Klick

So, my thoughts. Go.

DBK is still a strong townread. Bacde has also since been upgraded; not seeing anything to convince me otherwise in his posts.

Egg has since been downgraded; though I really like a lot of the things he's done, Bulba makes a decent point about his treatment of fuzzy. While Egg's rebuttal is believable, I have a sliver of doubt in my heart about it so I downgraded him to a town lean instead.

Mac's still null to me. Bacde says he's not mafia because of how he reacted to Klick, and not a werewolf because he didn't bus fuzzy? I'm not sure I buy that. I'm really not in the mood to go meta him; has someone played with Mac a lot before? Is Mac the bussing kind, or is he a more cautious scum player? If you can, link me some games. Thanks.

TNE's on my leaning scum list because he's a fluffy lurky bastard. If I'm wrong about one of my major scumreads, he's getting the upgrade.

GM got downgraded to a major scumread because her explanations for her reads (and the reads themselves) blow. I'm apparently scum because I'm not trolling, DBK is town for sticking to his guns (he's like the wishy washiest guy here), Klick is reading town because of his apathy... I'm not continuing. Autti is scum as fuck: active lurking, fencesitting, his #791 and #795 are some of the most blatant scumposts I've ever seen. Klick is probably scum too (reasons haven't really changed since I last said why), but I think he's less scummy than Autti for now (but I might change to Bulba, more on that soon), so vote stays on Autti. Bulbazak is definitely mafia. I thought he was scum yesterday; that read hasn't noticeably changed as I wasn't satisfied with his response to my reasons he's scum.

However, note that I say mafia; there's no way in hell he's a wolf. Why is this, you ask? Reason: Bulbazak, from Day 1, has been actively

wolf hunting

. What is the mafia's number one priority right now? Removing the wolf threat. There is only one wolf remaining; if the mafia can find and lynch that wolf, the game becomes nightless. 6:3 nightless is pretty bad town odds. Not to mention with the seer dead the wolf priority is now killing mobsters; the longer that wolf stays alive the more mafia members are going to die.

What has Bulba been doing today? Hunting for fuzzy's partner. Note Bulbazak's posts today:

Spoiler: Bulba's posting

While Autti is a good lynch, I'm not going to put him at L-1 so early in the day,

especially since I don't think he's Fuzzy's partner

. However, after doing a side-by-side ISO, I think I know who is.

Vote Egg

Called Fuzzy scum for most of the day, yet avoided the wagon until it started to gain traction after Bacde replaced in. Is eager to direct the NKs. When asked about which faction should be lynched, he preferred lynching Mafia over Werewolf. He's also been keeping his options open lynch-wise.

I did a side-by-side of Egg, Autti, and you alongside Fuzzy.

I looked at Klick and Mac independently.

I completely forgot Mac existed. Any new conclusions with that?

Still think he's scum,

but he's not Fuzzy's partner.

I actually did ISO Bo and Fuzzy, because I had the same thought. I saw no connection between the 2. Bo flopped back and forth on Fuzzy all game,

but it didn't read as partner interaction whatsoever.

I never really explained why I think Klick is scum

but Mac independently came up with the exact same reason on his own

Thats unlikely to come from someone who is Klick's buddy, they would have come up with shoddy reasoning at best

Which means the only way for Mac to be scum (assuming Klick is mafia) is if he is a werewolf

But he's probably not a werewolf for a bunch of reasons I've been saying

Or it means Klick might be town, Mac might be scum, and you might have confirmation bias.

I actually did ISO Bo and Fuzzy, because I had the same thought. I saw no connection between the 2. Bo flopped back and forth on Fuzzy all game, but it didn't read as partner interaction whatsoever.

what do you look for when trying to read for partner interactions?

I'm looking for reasons on the wagon (Are they bussing or not.), reactions to each other, and whether any interaction between them read as genuine or manufactured.

Bo was on the Fuzzy wagon when it made no sense for a scumpartner to be on it. His actual confusion concerning Fuzzy's alignment reads as genuine, even when read in a dual ISO, which leads me to believe that Bo had no clue what Fuzzy's actual alignment was.

I would have expected Fuzzy's partner to perhaps bus him when it seemed inevitable to gain towncred

, but Bo was on the wagon when it didn't make sense for a partner to be.

However, go back and check Egg's reaction. He states approval for the Fuzzy wagon for most of the game without joining it, and he only joins it after it starts gaining a lot of traction after Bacde enters the game. That read like distancing and bussing to me.

Bo was on the Fuzzy wagon when it made no sense for a scumpartner to be on it.

His actual confusion concerning Fuzzy's alignment reads as genuine, even when read in a dual ISO, which leads me to believe that Bo had no clue what Fuzzy's actual alignment was. I would have expected Fuzzy's partner to perhaps bus him when it seemed inevitable to gain towncred, but Bo was on the wagon when it didn't make sense for a partner to be.

how does the bolded work then. iirc DBK hopped on every wagon and it's mother, before hammering fuzzy. distancing and then bussing.

Did you read the rest of my post? Bo's reasonings for voting the way he did and his confusion on Fuzzy read as genuine. Their interactions did not read like 2 scumpartners when I went through their ISO.

Therefore, I don't think Bo is Fuzzy's partner.

Well, I can explain it first

when I replaced into the game, everyone was hounding on icebox, thinking icebox was scum

there was also a clamor on fuzzy

Now I sorta make an assumption when I join games, I assume that the entire town is wrong and that the biggest bandwagon is on town. I know this isn't always true, but its what I do because it causes everyone to have a big reaction to me which helps me get reads.

so I assumed both fuzzy and icebox were town

But I wanted to reaction test, and icebox posted something that was a little awkward that someone called him out for being a slip, so I acted like it was a big deal and was a slip (and even posted a large image of stick figures playing football that said "FUMBLE!!"). Whats interesting is that I was TOTALLY supportive of wagoning icebox vocally, but I never voted icebox, because I was just trying to see how people would react. I never actually thought icebox made a slip, it was just awkward phrasing.

While I was doing that, not only did Klick vote for, push on, and be confident about icebox being scum for his slip, he ALSO lauded me for joining the game saying that I make the game more entertaining. That set off my scum-dar as I once played in a klick-modded game before as town and pretty much guaranteed a scum-victory with my poor play (I've gotten better since then )

Was this your entire case? That Klick welcomed you to the game and was influenced by a slip (which from experience playing with him, he is apt to do)? Face it, you have nothing. For the same reason, Mac is not automatically town, because he brought up the slip thing. In fact, he's probably scum who is buddying up to you seeking town cred.

@Bulba: Can you tell me why Egg is suspicious? I have him as a strong townread from early play.

He voiced support for a Fuzzy lynch yet never actually voted him until after Bacde replaced in a started getting the wagon rolling. He tried to direct the NK, which I've stated how anti-town that is (It also gave him a reason to unleash some WIFOM.). In regards to his scumreads, he's been keeping his options open. Finally, when asked about which faction should take a priority lynch-wise, he preferred to focus on the mafia, wanting to keep the werewolf NKs in play in an effort to use them, which is a fairly werewolf-sided response.

I strongly believe him to be the last werewolf, and Fuzzy's partner.

If you look at the posts in the spoiler (I bolded them to make it easier), you'll notice that Bulbazak is

obsessed

with finding fuzzy's partner. This means two things: 1)He thinks lynching the final wolf is what he needs to be doing right now and 2)Bulbazak is not a wolf. He's mafia.

[Syryana]

Syryana, of course I'm going to be looking for the wolf in particular. They have a night kill! We get rid of the wolf, we can begin to control the pace of the game, since we will no longer have to worry about losing town members during the night. Going into tomorrow, we'd outnumber scum 2:1, and unlike some people, I don't believe this would mean that scum would become impossible to catch. The NK is the biggest threat to the town right now. If we can eliminate that, we can control the game and find scum via PoE.

I don't see how being in a 6:3 nightless today (assuming we find and catch the wolf) is better than being in a possible 5:1 nightless tomorrow (if mafia are caught/NK'd and we then lynch the wolf) or some other combination. There's one scenario in which we

won't

be in a situation that's better than today, and that's if the wolf and the town both kill townies. A scenario I find frankly unlikely given the pool of suspects atm.

Syr.

That Bulb scum read

reeks

.

Do elaborate. Also realize that most of what I put in my previous post was not why I think Bulba is scum, but rather why I think he's mafia. You'll have to go back to my prior post to see why he's scum.

Well tbh either way, I'd hunt for werewolf partner. Town or mafia.

Since in both alignments, werewolves are bad.

Mafia are pretty much scum masons now. They can't kill. So I can see where bulba is heading.
So I really don't see the harm in looking for the other werewolf

Yes. However, Bulba doesn't just want to find the wolf, he wants to lynch the wolf. I think it would be better to find him then let him kill a few mafia before we kill him. If we can find him, we can control him.

[Syryana]

@Syr: You think Bulb is scum because
- he pointed out something about 3 scum instead of 5. Which is suspicious, but I highly doubt it warrants a lynch anytime soon. Could be Mafia (only thinking Mafia has three members) or Werewolf (Only looking for three scum members).
- he avoided the topic after Icebox's claim. I saw his response and it looked solid, IMO. Bulbazak isn't a rapid-poster, and he seems like the type to drop everything when a PR claims.

Reason he's Mafia and not Wolf: he's avidly hunting for the wolf. Well, firstly, it's not unlike Bulb to try to abolish a NK before focusing on Mafia (ANY Nightless is better than something with a NK), because I know that Bulb is the type of player willing to do anything to make his wincon easier. Getting rid of the NK does also help Mafia, but also Town. (And Mafia may like leaving the NK there if they believe the Wolf will hit town that night.)

While what you say makes sense (though I need to meta Bulbatown to verify that last paragraph at some point) I'm still not willing to give up on my read on him just yet. I just have this really strong feeling he's scum.

@Syr If bulba is a strong scumread for you, why do his posts affect your opinion on Egg in any way?

I think it's highly unlikely Bulba is the wolf for reasons I stated previously. Even though he's scum he can still help town find the wolf. His reason he thinks Egg might be fuzzy's partner resonates with me enough to make me doubt myself on Egg. If Bulba (or anyone else) died right now and flipped wolf, Egg would go right back in the conftown pile.

You're assuming that a NK will hit mafia and not town. The chance that the NK might hit town makes leaving the wolf alive too big of a risk. If we have a good idea who the wolf is, that should be our lynch. Otherwise, lynching any flavor of scum will do.

Considering the suspect pool we've got, yes I'm assuming the NK will hit scum. Statistically that's not true (6:3) but I don't see the wolf killing randomly. I'm still not interested in lynching a townread who

might

be a wolf over Klick/Autti/GM.

Egg is a scumread who I happen to think is a wolf, AKA Fuzzy's partner. If I didn't have a lead otherwise, I'd just vote one of my other scumreads.

Who ARE your other scumreads?

[Syryana]

Who ARE your other scumreads?

Autti and Mac. Still trying to figure out what I think about TNE and Bo, as they are both nulls.

Autti I get. Why Mac?

[Syryana]

@mod, I'll be V/LA until Wednesday.

[Syryana]

My head exploded when I saw the kill target and the flip.

I need to redo my reads, like right the fuck now.

I can buy the Egg thing.

But bulba would be my mafia lynch

Why do you want to get rid of the mafia over the wolf?

and wait... I just realized.

Did you guys lynch klick as a werewolf lynch or as an actual scum lynch?

Where are you going with this?

Here's a fucking thought, chaps. How about we explain why it's person X and person Y, instead of just stating it's them? Or else we are going nowhere today.

I gave reasons for both earlier in the game. The only thing that has changed is that thene was being coached in thread by Bo and Bo has now flipped scum.

I've been wrestling with this a bit in my head all morning. I'm more sure thene is scum than I am with bulb. However, as much as I didn't want to deal with "which scum group should we lynch?", I'm confident in thene being mafia rather than werewolf. And yes, werewolves can and should shoot mafia. And yes, they did so last night. However, with one mafia left, their odds of doing so are much less now. Also, we don't know if the Bo shot was an attempt at mafia or not because some people had him as town.

I think it's better to try to eliminate the NK now.

100% the bolded. If we get rid of the wolf now, game is a 6:1 nightless. The odds aren't getting any better than that.

Egg, you're sure Thene is mafia. Why? And if you're right(i.e. both Bulb and Thene are scum, and Thene is mafia) that would make Bulb the wolf by POE, yes? That doesn't sound right to me; I made a pretty good case yesterday as to why Bulb isn't the wolf if he's scum. Can you go reread what I said about Bulb yesterday and see if that factors into your thoughts on the remaining scum?

Did you guys lynch klick as a werewolf lynch or as an actual scum lynch?

I lynched him thinking he was the other werewolf. My goal was to take out one killing faction if at all possible. He was anti-Town so it didn't really matter to me as Town. I knew there was a chance of cross kill but figured the kill was more likely to land on Town. So I was hunting the other wolf. At this point my understanding is that there is one wolf and one mafia in the game. So, as long as we lynch anti-Town today we reduce the number of night kills by one tonight thus lowering the chance of another Town dying.

Why does it matter, TNE? For reads?

Why did you think Klick was the other wolf? Why didn't his anti-town team alignment matter, if you were wolf hunting? You do realize Mafia don't have a NK?

The case on Mac isn't very concrete (I read most of the case as RVS instead of actual scum tells), plus Mac has been pretty townie to me the whole game.

This indicates to me that Mac is not the last werewolf. Mac would want to keep Bo around to defend him.

WIFOM reasoning if I've ever seen it.

Bulb, let's be real, you're not getting your Egg lynch today. No one else has given him a large scumread.

Reason he's Mafia and not Wolf: he's avidly hunting for the wolf. Well, firstly, it's not unlike Bulb to try to abolish a NK before focusing on Mafia (ANY Nightless is better than something with a NK), because I know that Bulb is the type of player willing to do anything to make his wincon easier.

Maybe defending Egg? I have to keep reading.

This looks more like defending/coaching Bulb than defending Egg.

If Bulb votes Autti I'll switch back to Autti. Still standing by whichever wagon is bigger from Klick/Autti I'll be on.

Possible coaching Bulb? In either case, it likely clears Autti as last Mafia.

How did you catch onto the coaching of Bulb here but not in the prior paragraph? Why does this clear you of being Mafia?

This is what I have so far.

So...

bulb because he kept trying to keep me from lynching klick yesterday

I was like "we should lynch klick and here's the reason why"

and he was all like "thats not a good reason, why not lynch mac?"

and I'm like "no mac is town, we lynch klick"

and he goes "why not mac? or why not anyone else who isn't klick? Also DBK is a townread of mine"

And I think Princess is likely the last werewolf:

1) Because I think Princess is scum (residual from Autti)
2) She randomly said "Klick is the last werewolf" which is weird because I've been calling him as mafia for a while now (and I'm pretty sure a couple other people have too), so I'm not certain how she'd arrive at that conclusion by rereading unless she was trying to force a not-werewolf tell (which would make her a werewolf)
3) She seemed motivated to lynch Klick by me saying that she might get lynched as a compromise which is survivalistic which tends to be scummy

I like this.

Your case on Bulb is reasonable.

Your case on me is awful.

1. "Survivalistic is scummy" is a bogus tell people create to make someone look scummy. I don't know why you had Autti as scum. I don't care. I'm not Autti and I'm Town.

Also, I helped lynch a non Town as my very first vote. That buys me at least one opportunity to be wrong.

So stop tunneling on me because of the former occupant of this slot. Otherwise, I will have to show you all the examples of Town playing "survivalistic" and I'm really too lazy to show you that it is equally likely to come from either alignment. Finally, I wasn't playing survivalistic. I came in and voted my scum read. It was that simple.

Survivalism is not a scumtell. However, you are inordinately interested in "being cleared" and "proven not to be Mafia". Hell, the above paragraph states that your vote on Klick should give you some elbow room in terms of being lynched today(bolded).

2. There was nothing "random" about calling Klick the last werewolf. I saw a relational tell between Klick and FBN. FBN had 4 posts in a row [via ISO] beginning with 806 where he swears up and down that Klick is mafia. Sounded like a bus attempt.

A bus at L-1 (actually dead since people thought my L-1 vote was a hammer)? This is why you voted Klick? Lol?

I wanna hear more from GM too. List of reads, reasons, etc.

Mac, who are your current scumspects?

[Syryana]

Survivalism is not a scumtell.

You could have stopped there. I was accused of playing survivalist and that playing survivalist is scummy. I wasn't playing survivalist but even if I had been, playing survivalist ISN'T inherently scummy. That is important.

Fact: You are playing survivalist right now. Fact: Survivalism is not a scumtell. Opinion: The way you're attempting to clear your slot is scummy.

I also think you should reread the voting situation. You claim I bussed my partner at L-1. Klick was at L-2. My vote is the one that put Klick at L-1. Klick self hammered. I would understand suspicions of me being Klick's partner if I hammered but not for putting him at L-1.

I believe you are referring to the point I was making about a bus at L-1? You misunderstand. I was not referring to your vote on Klick, I was referring to your "relational tell" between fuzzy and Klick. If Klick and fuzzy were wolf partners as you posit, then fuzzy was bussing his sole remaining partner when he was at L-1/dead. Frankly I think that's pretty fucking ludicrous.

As far as my "wifom" reason for calling Mac "not a werewolf," why is that a problem for you but Bacde's wifom link between me and DBK's claimed reads seemingly not a problem for you at all? I have other reasons for thinking Mac is Town but that was a good passage to highlight just one of them.

WIFOM link from Bacde? I didn't see this. Link?

Peditx4: Holy shit people

[Syryana]

Frankly I think that's pretty fucking ludicrous.

You are entitled to your opinion. Even if it's wrong. You have to admit that wouldn't be the first time someone at L-1 fake bussed their partner in order to steer suspicion clear of them. So to call that "fucking ludicrous" is fucking ludicrous.

What's fucking ludicrous is that your all of your scumreads since you replaced in are based off WIFOM. Klick, Egg, me. All based off WIFOM fuzzy stuff.

WIFOM link from Bacde? I didn't see this. Link?

There were two entire posts you missed, then. All of post 1073. And post 1074.

More recently post 1081 and post 1082.

His assertion that you killed DBK because he was a vocal advocate of your lynch is WIFOM, yes. However, the major difference between Bacde's case on you and your case on me/Egg is that Bacde actually has some non-WIFOM points against you. His use of WIFOM is shit, but I don't really care since that's not his case against you.

In very short terms, this is the difference:
Bacde: "Hey, princess is scum because Autti and reasons! In fact, now I look at the DBK kill, that seems like a reasonably good lynch for today; it makes sense!"
Princess: "Let's lynch Syr or Egg because [WIFOM]. I thought Klick was the werewolf because [WIFOM]".

VOTE: Princess

Pedit: I'll read Bulbs thing later

[Syryana]

Spoiler: spoilered for page sanity

Why is Egg wolf and Princess mafia?

Egg is wolf for all the reasons I've previously mentioned. He has been tackling this game with wolf intent, and that extends to this post:

I've been wrestling with this a bit in my head all morning. I'm more sure thene is scum than I am with bulb. However, as much as I didn't want to deal with "which scum group should we lynch?", I'm confident in thene being mafia rather than werewolf. And yes, werewolves can and should shoot mafia. And yes, they did so last night. However, with one mafia left, their odds of doing so are much less now. Also, we don't know if the Bo shot was an attempt at mafia or not because some people had him as town. I think it's better to try to eliminate the NK now.

Seriously! Why is no one seeing this?!

Egg does seem to be unusually sure TNE is mafia. I'm interested to hear his reasoning. Other than that though, I'm not seeing anything overtly wolfish here. Spell it out for me in nice simple words, Bulb?

Princess is mafia, because her vote yesterday was an obvious bus. She was under a considerable amount of suspicion yesterday, and bussing Klick was on opportunity to gain towncred, which she is going after with a vengeance:

Princess pops into the game, doesn't read(no way she read ~40 pages in 15 minutes), and votes Klick. While it is entirely possible it was a bus, the only thing you can say for certain is that her vote was opportunistic. She could be mafia bussing a buddy for cred, or a wolf voting the top wagon that isn't her slot and using the resulting flip for town cred. Opportunistic as fuck, yes. Scum team indicative, no.

I don't know why you had Autti as scum. I don't care. I'm not Autti and I'm Town. Also, I helped lynch a non Town as my very first vote. That buys me at least one opportunity to be wrong.

Because of this, it doesn't make sense for her to be the last wolf. The only way this would work was if she knew for sure that Klick was mafia, and the only way she'd know that was if she was his partner. Therefore, Princess is the last mafia.

See previous point.

Bulb, tell me why I would have shot bo if I was werewolf.

Bo was in the null/scummy area of everybody's reads, essentially putting him in the gray area. If he was scum, you got rid of one more member of the mafia faction, and if he was town, he had the potential to be extremely influential as the game progressed, as he was one of the stronger players. Essentially, it's a win-win.

I lynched him thinking he was the other werewolf. My goal was to take out one killing faction if at all possible. He was anti-Town so it didn't really matter to me as Town.

And you made that decision, analyzing all of the possible interactions of 40+ pages after only 17 minutes? I don't think so. Let's be honest, you were under extreme suspicion and you needed an out, so you bussed your buddy for towncred. Heck, you even congratulated him on his self-vote.

bulb because he kept trying to keep me from lynching klick yesterday

I was like "we should lynch klick and here's the reason why"

and he was all like "thats not a good reason, why not lynch mac?"

and I'm like "no mac is town, we lynch klick"

and he goes "why not mac? or why not anyone else who isn't klick? Also DBK is a townread of mine"

I don't lynch town reads. As for everything else, I was asked who my scumreads were. I was then asked why I thought Mac was mafia. Then you kept badgering me about that read, even though I said that I was not interested in a Mac lynch that day.

Now that Klick flipped mafia, Mac is no longer a suspect, so you 2 can go over and make out in a corner for all I care. Now are you done misrepping me, or do you want to continue to be butthurt about this?

Why is Mac no longer a suspect?

why is it that the mafia for some reason keep ending up on the townier side of his reads?

Because I had a town read on them. Although to be honest, I wasn't quite sure how I felt about Bo, and I was starting to lean scum on him d2.

he has two wolves in the scum pile

why is it that the mafia for some reason keep ending up on the townier side of his reads?

So I see one wolf in his pile. Unless you have information on Egg being the other wolf?

Also, you are in his Town pile. Are you saying you are mafia? That would make things easy.

Seriously. Princess, stop. I want to lynch the wolf, which means giving you a free pass today. Don't scum up the thread so much that I change my mind.

I don't even....

Regardless of whether it's bussing (she's maf) or just luck (she's wolf), the really scummy thing about her vote was its opportunism.

Bulba, I know you can do waaaaaaaaaay better than this. Like a lot.

So much this.

That wasn't the crux of the argument at all GM, and you know it. Princess's vote on Klick yesterday was a play to get town cred, which she affirms with each post that she makes. The only way for her to get towncred from the lynch was if she knew that Klick would flip scum, and the only way to know that for certain would be if she was his partner. It's basic deductive reasoning.

Your basic deductive reasoning is still ignoring the fact that none of the "this should gain me towncred" posts she made came until after the flip.

Who besides you had a town read on Bo? From what I remember, he was either seen as scum, leaning scum, or null.

As many people had Bo as town yesterday compared to those that had him as scum. E.g. me, GM, Bacde had townreads, Bulba, Mac, TNE had him as a scumread. No idea what Egg thought of him.

What if I'm just a townie who is trying to figure stuff out?

I believe you, but you need to get over your confirmation bias first before you can proceed.

What confirmation bias?

Long story short, Bulba's reasoning Princess is mafia is shit. For that matter, so is Bacde's reasoning she's wolf. We need to spend less time WIFOM'ing about which scummy person belongs to what team and spend more time lining up scumreads to send to the gallows. Would it be great to kill the wolf today and eliminate the NK? Yep. I just don't think there's a good way to find scum from a specific team(if anyone has an idea that doesn't involve more WIFOM feel free to correct me). The best we can do is just get scumbutts and rope em.

Bacde, Bulba, stop being snarky and bitching at each other over stupid shit.

Bulba, why does Klick's flip make Mac conf-town?

[Syryana]

Princess, two things about 1077. One, Bo's scum read on your slot was probably legitimate. I don't think he was just looking for big wagons, especially now knowing that klick was his buddy. I think he wanted you lynched, but was setting up a bus in case he needed it. He had autti as scum late in Day 1. That's why you aren't mafia in my eyes. He'd look for another option Day 2. Two, mafia have NO NK. Werewolves can kill EVERY night. That is why everyone wants werewolves dead today and that is why I'm not voting thene who I am confident is mafia. Now where did you come up with the even/odd night thing? It looks so specific it could be fake.

1090 by princess is a massive twist of bacde's words.

After reading this, I have to ask:

Why is your vote still on Bulbazak?

[Syryana]

Syryana, I'm not sure what to think of princess yet. I'm worried we are wagoning that scummy townie who digs deeper holes by saying dumb shit but then flips town and everyone goes "fuck it, that still wasn't a bad lynch". I'm not entirely sold, basically.

What makes you think Princess is scummy town over scummy scum? What do you think of Bacde's case against her?

[Syryana]

Wow people got active. I'll catch up with this in a bit.

[Syryana]

So brief impressions I got from reading:

Egg still wants to lynch Bulba

Bulba still wants to lynch Egg

Princess made a bet that she should probably have been modkilled for, since it changed Egg's mind

Princess is still scummy.

Did I miss anything?

[Syryana]

I've been good with a Princess/Autti lynch since forever, so no.

[Syryana]

Bacde, Bulb, ya'll need to git yer asses on this wagon

Egg too if he's recovered from his fit of "wait she might be scummy town"

I am a firm believer in wagon overkill

And where the fuck is TNE

My posting is eerily similar to Bacde's right now

I need sleep

[Syryana]

@Mod: Requesting a prod on Thenewearth

Also requesting a hammer on Princess Scum.

[Syryana]

Knowing you, you'd probably wait until 5 minutes before the lynch

Then you'd fall asleep

And we'd no lynch

[Syryana]

Knowing you, you'd probably wait until 5 minutes before the lynch

Then you'd fall asleep

And we'd no lynch

I don't remember frustrating you this game?

not saying this isn't true, but this was a surprising response

You haven't been frustrating me

I'm just teasing you

[Syryana]

Fml, double posting

@Mod, delete the double?

[Syryana]

I'm beginning to think TNE might be scum

I'm having trouble thinking that town-TNE wouldn't be more excited about the game

(I'm not getting cold feet about hammering, I just still want to discuss things)

Bacde, scum is in {Princess, TNE, Bulbazak}

Whichever of {TNE, Bulba} we go after tomorrow will largely hinge on Princess' flip. I'm currently thinking TNE if she flips maf, Bulb if she flips WW, largely because I'm having serious trouble seeing wolf-Bulb.

[Syryana]

I'm currently thinking TNE if she flips maf, Bulb if she flips WW

I asked this before but humor me, what happens WHEN I flip VT?

Approximately this (pretend the guy in the corner is Bacde):

[Syryana]

Syryana, who is scum if princess flips town? (Funny thing is I wrote that before I read princess ask it but it still applies because you didn't answer) *sigh*

Bulb/TNE.

[Syryana]

/popcorn

[Syryana]

No.

[Syryana]

Oh you cheeky little fuck, im writing your name on my dick now

[Syryana]

^

[Syryana]

Mac, I love you. No homo.

[Syryana]

Yup!

[Syryana]

And you too.

[Syryana]

You're not invited anyways.

[Syryana]

[Syryana]

That Bulba case was a lot weaker than I was expecting. Hmm.

Kuribo, what are your current reads?

[Syryana]

Ive already outlined that I think egg is the wolf. Can we lynch him first?

I don't have a problem with this. I have a strong feeling Princess is the last mafia so we can keep her around for a bit.

Current reads:
Strong Town:
Bacde
Mac
Kuribo

Leaning town:
GM

Leaning scum:
Bulb
Egg

Defscum:
Princess

Kuribo, could you do me a favor? Go read pages 25-32 and see if that changes your opinion of Bacde.

[Syryana]

I'm good for an Egg lynch. Just somebody start the domino effect, because every single time I vote him, nobody joins.

Reads list.

VOTE: Egg

[Syryana]

Danke.

[Syryana]

Maybe I'm being silly, but I don't see what the Wolf would gain from defending the Mafia.

More time.

[Syryana]

Kuribo, did you see my request?

[Syryana]

bacde's treatmment of icebox as seer on those pages reads very town to me. probably not wolf either.

Wolf would be quicker to softly push icebox over fuzzy and save himself the trouble of NKing the seer so he can aim at maf. bacde saw icebox as scum until the claim.

That's what I thought. I've had a very strong town read on Bacde ever since then, but I wanted a fresh pair of eyes on it in case I'm crazy (Bo's flip really shook me). Thanks!

[Syryana]

your reads are fucking horse shit egg. sorry, but it's true.

This.

He's at L-2, by the by.

[Syryana]

Which is why I'm wondering why Bulba and Syr seem to see the need to prolong the inevitable?

Prolonging the inevitable? We're having a good discussion here.

[Syryana]

@Syr: I mean that you are attempting a lynch today that is not Princess, when we all know that she will be lynched eventually. I'm guessing based on the way these things usually go that this will lead to a dearth of conversation tomorrow.

We've been arguing back and forth over Princess for forever. It got to the point where I didn't even want to read this game. If moving my vote stirs some non-Princess-related discussion and actually makes me want to give a shit about this game, then hell yeah I'm moving my vote to Egg.

That said:
VOTE: Princess

[Syryana]

That was so unexpected as to make me uncomfortable.

Okay?

[Syryana]

mac and syr may as well be masons together

Wut.

wow I'm seeing egg scum now

No kidding. I can't believe how completely my read on him has reversed.

[Syryana]

(thought: are we going to let her get replaced (if she does get replaced) or just lynch her?)

We've got a day and a half until deadline, we may as well just lynch her.

[Syryana]

So tomorrow we are going to take her seriously even though today she's dangerous to take to endgame and all that?

I'm looking for where kuribo is coming from here more than anything...

We have Princess as a near universal scumread, yes. However, in the unlikely event we're wrong, it would be awesome to have her reads. Why are you not understanding this?

[Syryana]

<-- was considering the possibility of kuribo-scum

Oh really?

VOTE: Egg

[Syryana]

Are you really this confident that Egg is scum?

After that debacle in the late end of Day yesterday I feel pretty confident about it yes.

What do you think?

[Syryana]

Hmm.

I'm pretty confident on it, but I'll go read through yesterDay again and let you know what I come up with.

In the meantime, who are you looking at for toDay?

[Syryana]

Alrighty then, I'll let you know what I come up with tonight or tomorrow. Probably tomorrow.

[Syryana]

I'll catch up with this later, bout to go aggro on some bitches

[Syryana]

Oh look, the mod is angry face with us again

kk

what do you think of Mac?

And what about bulba?

Mac and you are solid fucking town. I read the game, I read your meta, you're both town as fuck.

Bulba, GM, Egg are all kicking my ass right now. I'll do some extended ISO's of all their slots and present my thoughts; you all can dissect them and tell me what you think.

[Syryana]

Oh, man. I've GOT it.

Here I was, sitting here, reading the ISOs of Bulb, GM, Egg, and getting pissed off, frustrated and absolutely nowhere with it.

Then, I saw this:

/confirm

1. I am Town. I said so. Werewolves are gross. The Mafia are trashy.
2. Bulbazak and Klick. I've played with both and they're interesting to play with.

And it HIT me.

It hit me like a ton of bricks

Like a line drive to the face

Like a fucking meteor

We've got FLIPS. Let's do a side by side of all these people and Klick/DBK/Fuzzy!

And this game got cracked wide open.

Lemme tell ya'll how it is:
Mafia: Bulbazak
Wolf: Egg

Whyso is that Syr, you ask. I will tell you, my children. Oh, but I will TELL you, and my words shall ring their truth down from the heavens and the angels shall sing and the sinners shall be lynched!

Sorry, getting carried away.

Spoiler: Bulbazak versus his Mafioso Partners

/confirm

1. I am Town. I said so. Werewolves are gross. The Mafia are trashy.
2. Bulbazak and Klick. I've played with both and they're interesting to play with.

This was where it all began. Putting his scum partners in the RVS post is ballsy as shit (verging closely on "outright insane", but I digress). This is WIFOM, I do not dispute that. But it put me on track to finding the associative tells, and boy howdy do they ever exist.

Mac's town to me because he didn't look like he faked not knowing whether scum had pre-game talk or not.

Yeah, I did say he was also town for scumhunting early, but then I forgot scum have to hunt scum too. I think I said this earlier.

You're also saying he didn't talk about the interactions anymore.

He also hasn't even posted in the game since. So that's not something to call him scum for.

So you have no opinion on Fuzzy yet?

Not yet. He hasn't said or done anything that's distinctly pinged my scumdar, and I keep remembering how we mislynched him in True Love mafia where he was acting similar. This is my fourth game with him, and I still haven't seen enough of him to read him right off the bat. And I'm certainly not going to base my vote off of him only having one person on his RQS scum team. Heck, even I almost forgot that the scum team is composed of 3 members in this game. He's a complete null to me, which is understandable as we've only been playing for a day and just got out of RVS.

P-edit: I've riffed Fuzzy in every game we've been in since 1337. Not to mention that the game had just started, we were still in RVS, and I hadn't seen anything even remotely scummy.

Heck, even I almost forgot that

the scum team

is composed of 3 members in this game.

"the" scum team?

UNVOTE: fuzzybutternut
VOTE: Bulbazak

Heck, even I almost forgot that

the scum team

is composed of 3 members in this game.

"the" scum team?

Yes, "the". Scum=Mafia. I'm just used to it that way. I guess we can call werewolves scum too, but it's just a matter of semantics. I'll probably be using the term in the broadest sense during the game anyway. It's just in this case, I meant it in terms of the Mafia faction, which should be apparent given the context.

Syryana feels town to me with his post. Following a lot of my thought processes (except for the whole Zach thing but meh), easily strikes all the important parts of the game so far.

Mac's vote doesn't feel OMGUSy.

Bulb's reaction to my vote was calm. Still reads null to me though, but his explanation can probably make sense, considering the werewolf situation we're in.

TNE

still

isn't contributing anything. We should fix that.

UNVOTE: Bulbazak
VOTE: thenewearth

Do you have any explanations for your reads whatsoever? Because from what I can see, you aren't showing the slightest interest in scum hunting.

Scum theater. Written, directed and produced by Bulbazak and Bo, Mafia at Law. In the first couple of quotes, you can see Bo and Bulb idly conversing about various things, namely Mac and fuzzy. Then in #138, Bo catches onto what he believes is a scumslip and votes Bulb. Bulb reacts in #144, essentially saying "it's semantics, chill". In Bo's very next post, #157, he drops the discussion and the vote altogether and never mentions it again. The whole exchange is "HEY YOU SCUMSLIPPED", "Naw man.", "OKAY". It's fake as hell. Just look at what Bo said:

Bulb's reaction to my vote was calm. Still reads null to me though, but his explanation can probably make sense, considering the werewolf situation we're in.

"Still reads null to me but it can probably make sense?" What? If Bo had really found a scumslip he wouldn't dismissed it nearly so quickly. It's all theater, ladies and gentlemen. Moving onward.

176 has "robots"? What does that even mean?

I can agree about TNE/Icebox likely partners if TNE flips scum.

Bo does it again! He focuses on tiny little shit in his partner's posting and calls him out on it. I think the best way to describe what's happening here as "anti-associative associative tells". Bo's attacking Bulba because he must; in the event Bo flips scum and someone goes back and reads ISO, a lack of mentioning Bulb could be construed as Bo ignoring his partner. Bo is keeping a hawk-eye on Bulba and calling him out on little things to avoid that very associative tell. This helps build up town cred for Bulba later; Bo's not ignoring him and is frequently attacking him, so they're probably not partners right? The catch: what Bo is attacking Bulba about. Bo's hitting him with little, almost inconsequential things, easily explained or deflected. The robots thing is some completely irrelevant shit that was easily explained by clicking the link (granted I didn't figure this out at the time either, but Bo was super aggressive about it). The scumslip was a bit more serious, but the theater is obvious when you see how quickly Bo dropped that line of attack. He tries to justify it later by claiming he "liked Bulba's reaction", but he dropped it like it's hot.

Bulb, Fuzzy called TNE

scum

for that remark, not town.

It's also not a scum slip. But it's suspicious. Zach's barely done anything and he thinks his lynch won't bother him? And an explanation would be

nice

?

That makes it sounds like you don't care if you get the explanation or not, TNE.

Wagons and lynches are not the same thing. You shouldn't confuse them that easily.

More hawkeye from Bo. Like, almost instantly after Bulb makes that post, Bo catches him on the misrep.

Hey DBK, does anybody on that list lean one way or the other?

I wanna say Bulb leans closer to town, Mac leans closer to scum, and that Fuzzy's neutrality to me may change in the near future. And that Zach was only recently neutral for how he's reacted.

But those are barely leans to me, not enough to place them in town or scum lists.

Wait, hold up. He's hardly mentioned Bulb since those early attacks, yet when I ask him about the reads list, Bulb is leaning town a little? On gut? He's been watching Bulb like a hawk for a dozen pages now. There's no trajectory to his read on Bulb; he watches him intently, calls him on scumslips, yet doesn't push the attack in either case, and somehow has a slight town lean on him? No, it doesn't make any sense; it's contrived.

Klick hasn't made enough posts for a read?

Nah. He'd be a scum read if he were active lurking, but he's said multiple times that he's been busy. I've felt overwhelmed in games before where I couldn't post enough to keep up.

Where did this null/scum read come from, especially since you had Klick as a town read earlier in the game?

1. If I am town, then who is scum?

Don't know. I haven't seen anything to make me start forming possible scum teams, outside of that one comment by you. That being said, I don't like the backtracking that follows that question.

@Klick: After seeing your results, I don't understand the point of that RQS in the first place, because all you're going to get is suspicions on everybody. I believe I've already covered how I almost forgot that the mafia team was composed of 3 players, and it took a quick look at the setup to remind myself. Eddie Fenix was a name I added at the last minute because of this. I'm also a player who puts a lot of thought and time into my posts, so saying that my knowing the setup is a point against me is just stupid and is actually a null tell. I'll probably look over this post a few times before posting it, just like I do everything I post. Period.

Bulb's icebox vote doesn't feel genuine to me.

What about it doesn't feel genuine?

Fuzzy's last few posts make me think he might be town.

The null read is for if he's actually busy.
The scum read is for if he's just trying to actively lurk (which could easily be a possibility, not liking his activity at this point).

My town read was based on Klick being town for asking the RQS questions and that was it, I didn't think about it very far. But then I remembered that town isn't the only faction that has to scum hunt, so Klick looking for werewolves isn't as townie as it seems.

And I only say werewolves because originally, Klick said that the answers due to questions showed possible werewolves. Not Mafia. Then later he changed his thought process.

That's why he isn't town to me anymore.

@Mod: I've had my vote on Icebox for awhile now.

Vote count has been fixed to reflect this. Any time I have missed anything just let me know like this.

@Bo:

2. Who would you like to be

Mafia

with in this game?

Your reasons are invalid.

@ Bulb: Explain why you think Fuzzy's response makes him town.

He's not backing off of his stances (#410) and they read as genuine.

So I'm not allowed to have a null read on Klick, Bulb?

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying that your RQS Mafia/Werewolf reasoning has been shown to be invalid. If he's null because of activity, that's fine, but it's not enough for a scum read.

It isn't enough for a scum read.

It's enough for a not-town-yet read.

More scum theater. Bulba is asking questions with obvious answers so he and Bo can provide the illusion of scumhunting each other.

Bulbazak got really quiet after Icebox's claim. He's around and posting, but his responses after the claim have been very curt. Considering how hardcore he was going after Icebox prior to the claim, his silence surprises me. No opinions on Klick? No opinions on Icebox's claim? Is the claim legit? Are the other wagons legit? I think Bulba felt he had a good case on Icebox and pushed hard. When he discovered Icebox was the seer, he freaked out and got really quiet. Why? It's the main reason I think Bulba is scum; no reason to fade off into the background after your major scumread claims a PR unless you're trying to hide.

Except for the fact that people were posting in rapidfire succession last night. Because of that, I watched to see what the general consensus on the claim was and awaited a counter claim. When I saw none coming, I went back and checked several ISOs. When I was done with that (and catching up on what I missed), I immediately unvoted and voted for Fuzzy (one of the ISOs I read through). Did you expect anything more than that? Regardless of my read on Icebox, everything drops when there is a PR claim. Period. I've only been starting to get decent reads since then. I've had mostly nulls all game. Plus, I've been apathetic, so there's that.

Here was a point I'd made that I'd forgotten about. Bulb was on Icebox really really hard on Day 1, but when the seer claim came he shut right up and ignores the hell out of the seer claim. After hyperfocussing Icebox for so long and getting a seer claim, he's got nothing? No knee-jerk reaction, no "what the fuck you're a liar", nothing. He attempts to justify it by saying he's apathetic and has few reads, but that doesn't really explain why he

ignored the claim of his top scumread entirely.

He's scum that outed a PR, so he panicked.

Syr.

That Bulb scum read

reeks

.

@Syr: You think Bulb is scum because
- he pointed out something about 3 scum instead of 5. Which is suspicious, but I highly doubt it warrants a lynch anytime soon. Could be Mafia (only thinking Mafia has three members) or Werewolf (Only looking for three scum members).
- he avoided the topic after Icebox's claim. I saw his response and it looked solid, IMO. Bulbazak isn't a rapid-poster, and he seems like the type to drop everything when a PR claims.

Reason he's Mafia and not Wolf: he's avidly hunting for the wolf. Well, firstly, it's not unlike Bulb to try to abolish a NK before focusing on Mafia (ANY Nightless is better than something with a NK), because I know that Bulb is the type of player willing to do anything to make his wincon easier. Getting rid of the NK does also help Mafia, but also Town. (And Mafia may like leaving the NK there if they believe the Wolf will hit town that night.)

Wow, what a turnabout. First Bo was attacking Bulb over every little thing, now he's actually

defending

him from me. With very strong terms too (my read on him

reeks

). What would cause this turnabout from Bo? Let's remember the game atmosphere at the time: Autti and Klick were the hot topics of the Day (Klick eventually gets lynched). Bo has hardly mentioned Bulb most of Day 2. (CTRL-F Bulb in DBK ISO, see how much less yellow there is near the bottom) Why then, is Bo defending Bulb at this time? Answer: He can't afford to lose two partners. He's already bussing one and he can't afford to lose the other.

Bulb, let's be real, you're not getting your Egg lynch today. No one else has given him a large scumread.

Why is TNE telling you he's the third Mafia member with his post? I mean, his posting recently's been pretty poor, but I didn't think it was that condemning.

If Bulb votes Autti I'll switch back to Autti. Still standing by whichever wagon is bigger from Klick/Autti I'll be on.

Translation: "I don't want to lynch Klick, Bulba stop being a dumbfuck and Vote Autti, GODDAMNIT BULBA"
Scum to scum conversation doesn't get any clearer than this.

Dear merciful God, that took forever. Slogging on.

Spoiler: Egg, Wolf

Now, the Fuzzy/Egg ISO is rather different from the Bo/Bulb/Klick one. Rather than the three way brawl the Mafia had going on, Fuzzy and Egg have a much tamer relationship. Let's examine it.

Hello, Egg. Have I ever played with you before?

Yes.

Got an important RQS.

1. Are you Town? Give three sentences to explain your reasoning.
2. Who would you like to be Mafia with in this game?

1. Yes. I got a Role PM. It says town. I'm town.
2. Fuzzy because he's always obvtown. And zach.

Also syryana is town. I'd prefer not to get into why.

AH, Icebox! Good to see you again.

Egg, how do you know my play? O.o

Oh, RQS. Okay.

1.) I like my role. I dislike scum roles. I am town.
2.) I'd like to see Egg be mafia. I've never played with him, but he knows me. O.O

Fuzzy, I've played with you before.

Oh, I can't read.

Erm..
Well, yeah. Egg. For the same reasons.

vote icebox

Post 29 swayed me into changing my intended vote.

oh hey, this is a thing now.

VOTE: Klick

eh, why not?

/confirmed

1. Are you Town? Give three sentences to explain your reasoning.
2. Who would you like to be Mafia with in this game?

1. Nope. I'm a monkey. Ook.
2. Maestro and Eddie Fenix

On a serious note, glad to see Fuzzy again. He's really cool and easy to read. If he's Mafia, he'll slip within 3 pages.

Glad to see you too buddy.

Icebox, yeah when I was a scum hydra last, I made a comment just like post 37 after my other head got called out.

Bulb and Klock are probably town.

Fuzzy might be scum.

These are early gut reads except klick. I'll get more into klick if people care a few pages down the road.

Preview edit: mac, that didn't look like mod/scum interaction.

The relevant post is at the bottom, the rest are included for reference. Note the bolded. As of Post 41, Egg has a gut scumread. First problem, where did Egg get this gut scumread? Second problem, and more damning IMO, fuzzy

completely ignores

the scumread. Why would fuzzy ignore that scumread? Hell, fuzzy (teehee I almost called him fuccky, I'm getting tired) got defensive when Bulb said he was bad scum. Why wouldn't he even react to Egg's gut scumread? The only reason I can think of is that fuzzy didn't feel threatened by it; they're partners. Also worthy of note is that Egg never mentions this gut scumread again until #153:

Klick, i'd be more than willing to lynch ice though. Not quite sure on fuzzy. Gut was saying he could be scum after his first few posts. That feeling has faded a bit though. Throughout Page 5, I do notice a sense of confidence I haven't seen from him before. And I don't think I've seen his scum game. Meh. Not quite sure what to think.

He doesn't comment on Fuzzy until after I give reasons on fuzzy being scum in #146. Even then, he ignores the points I make and talks about his really stale gut scum read on him. Also notice how he's reluctant to vote for fuzzy even though he had a gut scumread.

Meh. It's whatever. Thene and icebox are scummier anyway. And maybe even fuzzy.

More feather-light bussing. No vote.

Fuzzy's zach vote is horrible. Townfuzzy makes bad votes for bad reasons that you can tell he believes. He seems too fake in his votes here. More than willing to lynch him at this point.

Strongly declares fuzzy scum, still no vote.

Egg and fuzzy ignore the hell out of each other until:

Even if fuzzy wasn't crumbing, he's still scum. I only backed off because I thought he crumbed. He was scum before that.

Still

no vote. He's putting off bussing as long as possible.

Fuzzy, I want to try something. Assume you are scum for a minute. Just role play this. You are scum and pretty sure klick is on the other team. Humor me. Even if you are town, do this. Ok, now why does lynching klick "solve more problems" than lynching you? Is this true if he is on one specific team and that team is more dangerous? Is it easier to find his buddies? Is there more info on his wagon? What is it?

Bacde, I had klick as a town read then he lurked and came back all scummy.

Thene, I don't think I've seen wisdom win a game before. You're definitely right about the brick wall thing though.

Goodmorning, I always try hard in the early game. I've recently been called scum for it in almost all of my games. What stupidity did I agree with? I can't find it. As for my thing about telling werewolves to shoot mafia, it was discussed in length. Yes, it benefits the werewolves a ton to shoot mafia. It also benefits town. If you can't see why, I have no help for you.

By the way, what is the name of that tell where you replace in and say the person before you played poorly? Goodmorning may have committed it. The Amished tell. Almost didn't remember the name lol. Been so long.

One more thing goodmorning. Why such a strong town read on bulb? The rest of your post never indicated this.

Icebox, I still have thene as scum but things happened. Fuzzy and klick are both scum. Bulb is scum. It's just a matter of who to lynch today.

Bacde, I don't see why you changed your mind on a seer counter claim. I still am against it. Would rather not get into why until tomorrow though. Wait. And now you are back to "don't claim". Ok, whatever lol.

And now I'm caught up.

unvote, vote fuzzy

But werewolves should be shooting for mafia at night. If they don't, which any reasoning not to is beyond me, we can make them our entire focus.

Also, when did we prove you weren't a werewolf?

That's not very convincing...

"I know I'm town" never sways anyone.

I've read through page 33 and I have to ask. Why is fuzzy's reaction so obvtown?

Goodmorning, the partner blame thing is something I've seen a good handful of scum hydras do. I can't recall seeing it from a town hydra. However, icebox is an uncountered claimed seer, so I'm willing to accept that I was wrong for now.

I can't say zach's play was great, but the Amished tell is going out of your way to mention it. I don't personally have a ton of experience with that tell, but the two or three times I saw it brought up, it was right and the people using it said it had been right in the past.

I thought the werewolves shooting mafia thing was what you meant by something vague in your post. You said something to the effect of "the WIFOM on page x" I think.

Also, who says scumfuzzy would have to be faking those final reads? If he is scum, maybe those are the players he thinks are on the other team.

Bulb, I only count five scum reads in that post. You, fuzzy, klick, thene, and possibly goodmorning. Although I admit if you want to say I'm calling out a lot of possible scum, I've more than entertained the idea that mac or autti is scum. I also think Bo is worth looking at if thene flips scum. And I haven't entirely dismissed the idea that icebox could be scum but this isn't the time or place to be going after an uncountered claimed seer. So yeah, I have a lot of suspicions. The number of scum in this game is a huge reason why. I'm not saying every one of those players is scum, obviously. It's just where I'm looking. Right now, fuzzy, klick, and you are my primary focus.

Can you explain your town read on goodmorning? He's someone I'm trying to understand a bit because I had a town read on zach and he doesn't look so town so I'm wrong somewhere considering he replaced zach.

Bo, my reasons for fuzzy scum are mostly meta. It's the way he is actively scumhunting when he is town. Yes, it may be poor attempts, but you can clearly see the intent. I just don't see that in this game. Every one of his votes looks fake and forced, which while common in new town players, isn't townfuzzy at all.

Thene, yes. I look at reactions all the time. I don't see fuzzy's last reads as an obvtown reaction.

There's the turning point. The time has come to bus and bus hard. Look at that last post by Egg. He's telling Bo that his read on fuzzy is "mostly meta based" and revolves around "the [lack of] scumhunting". He's been idly calling fuzzy scummy all day, yet doesn't push until fuzzy's lynch gets damn near inevitable. And when pushin time comes, he pushes like a pregnant woman with an IV of caffeine and LSD. Hoo mama, that's some pushin right dere! (god i need to stop this)

And that's more or less that. I don't really feel the need to rehash the wolf intent from Egg's posts since Bulba's already done it and I'm so done with this.

Ya'll have fun with that. And vote Egg.

Pedit: Hey Mac, notice he didn't self vote until after we all moved our votes back to Princess. He was gambling.

[Syryana]

I didn't like bacde's entrance into the thread when it opened, however

What about it didn't you like?

Syryana, the gut scum read on fuzzy came from meta. I explained it in depth. He typically is genuinely trying hard to find scum even if he does so poorly. This game, that same effort seemed to have a focus on fitting in. While I caught a glimpse of this early on, it took a while for the read to actually develop fully. I didn't change my vote when I was behind on my read and by the time I caught up, I thought he'd crumbed seer and was trying to make sense of that whole situation.

I'm guessing he didn't respond to the initial suspicion because all I did is call it gut and I didn't even vote. There's no reason for him to feel threatened by that regardless of my alignment.

I'd also argue that the lynch was far from inevitible at the point where a few people called fuzzy's reaction an obvtown one.

You didn't explain the read until almost a day later. You simply voted fuzzy and said nothing about why until shortly before Bo hammered. Looks a hell of a lot like a bus to me.

Few people = TNE, DBK. 2/13 changed minds hardly necessitates any sort of reprieve for fuzzy. Not to mention if Klick had been lynched that Day fuzzy would have gotten speedlynched Day 2; you still had to bus and bus hard.

Or Bo knew that what I said

wasn't

a scumslip, since he was Mafia, and he probably knew that my play was off this game. I had answered him completely and logically, if he pushed it further, he knew he would risk waking me up game-wise, and the last thing he would need would be me latched onto him for the rest of the game (see: Egg). I've noticed that scum tend to like to keep me around for a later mislynch (But not Lylo.).

How would he know your play was off this game that early? He's only played one game with you, not including this one. Are ye really saying Bo didn't push it because he was scared of ye? Really?

So now me pointing out a formatting error is scummy, especially since it is something I tend to do (null tell)? Or is it Bo's asking about it, because need I remind you that you did too?

No, I'm pointing out a series of events where Bo attacks you on silly shit and drops it. I.e. scum theater.

I'm good for towncred apparently...

Lolno

Hey, you know what you do when the person you're pursuing claims a PR? You drop them and wait for a counter claim, especially in an open format where we know exactly what's in the game. If you continue to push them regardless, should they flip the PR, it ruins your credibility and makes you an unnecessary distraction when trying to find scum.

I'm not calling you scum because you didn't push Icebox. I'm calling you scum because you had like zero reaction to their claim. No knee jerk reaction, no questioning of Icebox, nothing. Took you like four hours to even mention their name after the claim. You panicked, plain and simple and tried to vanish off the face of the earth cause you helped out a PR.

There's another way to look at this: Bo's partner attacks someone he has planned to use as either a possible mislynch or towncred later in the game, and he tells said partner to back off.

Piece of advice Scumyana: Don't wake the sleeping giant.

HOHOHOHOHO

Icwutudidthar

Now I'm Bo's partner, is that what you're saying? Let's see what you got, giant!

I can see why people think Mac is Town but am becoming less sure about Bacde myself and Syr is still in my bottom three. Still working on reread, sorry it's been crazy for me recently.

You've had the Syryana-scum read since you replaced into the game. Can you give me a full explanation of why. I'm not experienced at reading Syryana, as I always tend to read him as town most of the time.

Wait, wasn't I scum just a minute ago? Now you can't read me?

I have a strong meta read that says GM is town. I've called GM's alignment correctly in every game I've been in with her. She is def. town, along with Mac. Bacde is prob. town, but in the event of Lylo, this needs to be reexamined. You are my top wolf read. Syryana is my top mafia read. Personally, I just want this game to be over with, that way I can focus on my other 2 games given my limited computer time.

Now I'm his top mafia pick again
Your read on me is fake, and you're fake
Flail harder, it will not save you

[Syryana]

Look. That post makes it clear there is no changing your mind. You are completely convinced I am scum. This is clear by the way you use "bus" and "vote" interchangably. You seem to have the same attitude towards bulb. Your reads seem similar to mine except that you have me as scum. I have you as a strong town read. Can you tell me why you haven't responded to my idea to just go down the list and lynch:
Me today
Bulb tomorrow
Goodmorning last
?

I thought it was pretty obvious I am fine with this

We're changing the order a bit though

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak
L-1

[Syryana]

Where is everybody

I'm all alone in a 6 player game

[Syryana]

Or Bo knew that what I said

wasn't

a scumslip, since he was Mafia, and he probably knew that my play was off this game. I had answered him completely and logically, if he pushed it further, he knew he would risk waking me up game-wise, and the last thing he would need would be me latched onto him for the rest of the game (see: Egg). I've noticed that scum tend to like to keep me around for a later mislynch (But not Lylo.).

How would he know your play was off this game that early? He's only played one game with you, not including this one. Are ye really saying Bo didn't push it because he was scared of ye? Really?

I've only played one game with Bo, true, but in that game, we were lovers, which means that Bo got to see how my mind works when scumhunting. Namely, when I had a really strong scumread on someone, Jmo in this case, I latched on and didn't let go. You should know that as well, since you replaced into Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple and read through the game, which means you saw how I tunneled the crap out of Metal Overlord when I was convinced he was scum. There is no doubt in my mind that Bo recognized I wasn't playing up to par when the game began. As for not pushing me, it probably wasn't because he was afraid of me, rather it was probably because he saw how much suspicion I was drawing, knew from my play that I was town, and knew that he could get towncred for correctly calling me so.

I did some checking. You tunnel regardless of alignment. I also checked that lovers game. I don't see how Bo could have "known your game wasn't up to par when the game started".

So now me pointing out a formatting error is scummy, especially since it is something I tend to do (null tell)? Or is it Bo's asking about it, because need I remind you that you did too?

No, I'm pointing out a series of events where Bo attacks you on silly shit and drops it. I.e. scum theater.

You dropped the robot questioning too. Does that make you scum for performing scum theater as well?

Spoiler: You caught me

Notice how I figured out what you were talking about as soon as you mentioned the link in Autti's post. Then notice how Bo didn't, twice. He had no clue about the link. He even went back to reread the post and

still

didn't notice.(#207, #209) Then, after I explained what it meant, he'd forgotten entirely that you'd made the comment in the first place (#211). Ergo, his attack was fake as fuck.

Hey, you know what you do when the person you're pursuing claims a PR? You drop them and wait for a counter claim, especially in an open format where we know exactly what's in the game. If you continue to push them regardless, should they flip the PR, it ruins your credibility and makes you an unnecessary distraction when trying to find scum.

I'm not calling you scum because you didn't push Icebox. I'm calling you scum because you had like zero reaction to their claim. No knee jerk reaction, no questioning of Icebox, nothing. Took you like four hours to even mention their name after the claim. You panicked, plain and simple and tried to vanish off the face of the earth cause you helped out a PR.

Actually, I did react to their claim:

P-Edit:

I thought them outing themselves the way they did was incredibly stupid.

A facepalm emote. Your defense is a facepalm emote? You didn't even unvote for another half an hour. Is that how long it took for you to calm your thudding heart?

Now I'm Bo's partner, is that what you're saying? Let's see what you got, giant!

That's the conclusion I'm beginning to come to. I'll have to see if I have time to do a proper ISO.

Funny how this conclusion popped up right around the time my wall calling you scum did.

I can see why people think Mac is Town but am becoming less sure about Bacde myself and Syr is still in my bottom three. Still working on reread, sorry it's been crazy for me recently.

You've had the Syryana-scum read since you replaced into the game. Can you give me a full explanation of why. I'm not experienced at reading Syryana, as I always tend to read him as town most of the time.

Wait, wasn't I scum just a minute ago? Now you can't read me?

I was going to ask GM this anyway, as I wanted to see why she suspected you. Your post just came first chronologically. To be honest, I always initially read you as town. The only reason I've gotten such a strong scumread on you recently is due to the nature of your push on me. It doesn't feel genuine.

Not genuine, you say? Point out the not-genuine parts?

I have a strong meta read that says GM is town. I've called GM's alignment correctly in every game I've been in with her. She is def. town, along with Mac. Bacde is prob. town, but in the event of Lylo, this needs to be reexamined. You are my top wolf read. Syryana is my top mafia read. Personally, I just want this game to be over with, that way I can focus on my other 2 games given my limited computer time.

Now I'm his top mafia pick again
Your read on me is fake, and you're fake
Flail harder, it will not save you

You never stopped being my top mafia pick.

Hmm. You sure bout that? Let's look at your reads.

Spoiler: Day 1

Sorry for the delay. Had a podcast that I had to do.

Reads:

Town:
Bacde
Syryana
Icebox

Null/Town:
Goodmorning
Klick

Null:
Thenewearth
Does Bo Know

Null/Scum:
Mac

Scum:
Egg
Autti
Fuzzybutternut

Feel free to ask questions. I may even answer them.

Spoiler: Day 3

Town

Bacde
Mac
Syryana
Goodmorning
Kuribo

Wolf

Egg

Mafia

Princess Proton

Unvote

Vote Egg

Huh. That's weird. I could swear that's my name, right there in your town column.

[Syryana]

First post of new page MUST HAVE IT

My name is Syryana, and I'm a giant tool.

[Syryana]

My name is Syryana, and I'm

a giant tool

an amazing scumhunter.

===============[]

[Syryana]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Syryana]

Waiting on fruit to make up its mind is boring

[Syryana]

Mod, I will be LA until tomorrow.

[Syryana]

Catching up in this game will have to wait until tomorrow, blinding headache

[Syryana]

Right now I'm actually leaning Syr but I haven't reread anything

Why?

@Syryana: Give me an update on your thoughts and reads.

My thoughts are that we should no-lynch. My reads are scattered to fuck and gone right now and I'm not rereading tonight.
VOTE: No-lynch

[Syryana]

What motivation would bulba have to kill G_M?

I've an idea, but it's pretty WIFOM-y. I'll put it out there if you all want, but I'm not sure it's a good use of our time to discuss WIFOM-y things like this.

I'll probably no lynch as well later on. However, we have a nice full day phase to try to sort everything out. Let's talk.

In any other situation I would agree with you. However, this being MyLo, I think if we're going to no-lynch we should put off the discussion until tomorrow. It saves time for town in that we have less suspects to analyze and more importantly it will make life difficult for the wolf toNight (no current reads means wolf will have less info and consequently a much harder time fucking with our minds).

If we're going to lynch toDay, I'm all for discussing right up till the last second. However, in my opinion it would be counterproductive to lay all our cards on the table then no-lynch.

[Syryana]

Now that the site's back and I can actually finish my post:

Now's the perfect time. What do you got?

K. Disclaimer: The following is WIFOM as fuck. You has been warned.

Vote: Egg

I realise I'm pretty bad at reading Bulba but I really don't think it's him. More on this when I get back.

I super duper promise that I am almost done with my super duper convincing case on Syr. In the meantime I will super duper enjoy this slugfest. I am super duper sure of EggScum at this point, though that did go super duper poorly last time.

Relevant quotes. Why did you kill GM? 1) She was the only person that outright buddied you yesterDay and 2) killing her generates nice WIFOM about me, given the case she was supposedly making against me. 1) is helpful in the most WIFOM sense; it makes it less reasonable for you to be the killer. Why, when at L-1 for a great duration yesterDay, would you, having made it past the Day and given an Egg townflip, kill your only supporter? It doesn't seem reasonable that you would, which gives you an excellent reason to do so. Second, GM's death has the added benefit of throwing suspicion onto your main detractor: me. At Day's end, she was promising a case on me. Why not knock her out of the game, as it makes others look worse and you look better for doing so?

Hmm. I seem to remember some similar discussion about DBK being killed for something like this. I'll go reread the game and find it.

[Syryana]

when Klick flips mafia, Bulba clears me as town because of the way I pushed Klick to the point where it couldn't be bussing. he doesn't think I'm a wolf because of the way I pushed fuzzy to the point where it couldn't be bussing. correct? I think I am.

I looked into this after mentioning that GM stuff. You are correct.

Your case is interesting. Will go look at fuzzy-Bulba early interactions.

[Syryana]

not to mention I didn't really do much after the Autti/PP slot flipped town

Why don't you do something and start contributing then?

Why would I, as wolf, kill GM, who I had a town read on, when we were entering into Mylo with 1 Mafia member left, which threatened a possible win? I would be more likely to kill you, since I had read you as Mafia. From that perspective, a GM NK makes no sense, but again, as you said, that's all WIFOM.

Optimal wolf play would be to NK townies and lynch Mafia. So, assuming your Mafia read on me was legit, optimal play for Bulba-wolf would be to kill a townread and get me lynched today.

Still need to go back and read those interactions, Mac. Will get to it this evening.

[Syryana]

Wouldn't it be just as optimal to lynch townies and NK mafia?

Why is it that a wolf necessarily wants to lynch mafia and NK townies?

I feel like we went over this somewhere before. Lynching townies and NK'ing mafia would end up with the same net result, but in my opinion lynching mafia would be safer from a wolf perspective since the wolf gets towncred for every successful mafia lynch that they participate in rather than possible suspicion from mislynching townies (depending on the mislynch, not all mislynches are created equal).

[Syryana]

Bacde. Give us an updated list of reads please.

[Syryana]

I don't really feel like this is true, since I don't think a single person in this thread has given someone town cred for lynching mafia, just not-mafia cred.

Overtly, no. The effect I'm attempting to describe is much subtler.

Bacde. Give us an updated list of reads please.

Right now it goes:

I think its a wolf: Syr

I think its probably not a wolf: everyone else

Why?

[Syryana]

I'm wondering why G_M died right after she said she was going to make a case on you

I'm also curious as to why PP was so certain that there was a scum between you and me

Seriously? You think I'm scum because of WIFOM and Princess OMGUS's reads?

Bacde, why do you think that Mac is town?

What are your current reads, Bulb?

Mac, what do you think of Bacde?

[Syryana]

I'm going to read interactions and shit tomorrow

Bacde why are you being so lame

I want to talk to you tomorrow

You better be here

[Syryana]

I REALLY thought he was town d1, we meshed really well together and agreed on Klick being scum for a really good reason

You really thought I was town D1 as well, yet now you are saying I am the wolf for some pretty sorry reasons. Why are you making zero effort to figure anyone out? We're down to the wire here and all you have is stuff from people you vocally never trusted before their deaths.

now I'm less sure, it feels like he's trying to jab at me for things that are just obviously wrong, like telling me that I'm not answering questions that I clearly am

it weird, cuz yesterday I felt like his pressure on me was townie. Like, I was pretty lazy yesterday

Does his 1688 change your opinion?

because your answer is entirely based from other people's reads and actions and not your own.

tell me, why could wolf-Bulba, wolf-Mac or wolf-Bacde not kill off GM to frame Syr?

and PP's reads were terrible and she got hammered for that EXACT reason yet you seem to be acting like they are the foundations of the town and without them we will crumble. again, i don't know why you do not view other dead people's reads with a similar high-regard that you hold PP's reads with.

i feel like you are coasting your way through this game, especially yesterday where you did literally nothing for about a week despite me constantly jabbing you too. i feel like town bacde would not do this in mylo and would be doing more to scumhunt.

I really couldn't have said it better myself.

syr & bacde: opinions on fuzzy-bulba interactions early on?

They're interesting and seem to support the Bulba-wolf theory, but I ultimately think that Bulba's reaction to my case on him yesterday was more damning.

Still a little confused, especially after finishing the ISOs, as I can see reasons everybody could be the wolf. However, I still don't think your play matches wolf intent, even though I hated your pushes yesterday. I still feel that you would have NK'd me as wolf due to Donner Party paranoia. Bacde's early game is so town and genuine it's not funny. It is true that he townread Fuzzy, but he quickly discerned Fuzzy's alignment and explained his thought process later, all of which matches and is consistent when you go back to look at it. His play yesterday kinda makes sense from a hopeless town perspective as well. That leaves Mac, the one player that my gut has been screaming "wolf" at me all day. I think I have a pretty good case, but I need the time to put it together, and I don't have the time or patience to do it tonight.

Any other questions for me?

You had a pretty hard scumread on me yesterDay. Why has that vanished? Because my play doesn't show wolf intent? Why not?

Show me Bacde's thought process. I want to see why you think he's so town.

I'm interested to see this Mac-wolf case.

[Syryana]

VOTE: bacde

when you get to hell, tell them kuribo sent you

Whaa? What happened to the bulba-wolf read?

[Syryana]

I'm sitting here staring at the screen with my mouth hanging open

What the actual fuck Mac

[Syryana]

[Syryana]

I was under the impression you found Bulba scummier than Bacde so it surprised me when you voted Bacde.

[Syryana]

In fact, why

do

you find Bacde scummier than Bulba? Especially considering you went to the trouble of quoting the Bulba/fuzzy interactions to show the wolf in Bulba. I see why you think Bacde is scummy (1688 for example) but I'm not understanding why you now think (or did before your wild n' crazy flipflop) Bacde is scummier.

[Syryana]

i didn't show the wolf. I wanted opinions. I'm still waiting for yours I think? or bacde's. one or the other.

the fact is bacde ignored the questions i asked and the responses to his own questions and has done so for the past two days. this isn't the bacde who replaced into the game and genuinely scumhunted.

You're waiting on Bacde. I answered in the last page somewhere.

it's bulba or bacde.

which it is... is fucking difficult to decide.

I'm in the same exact place. Originally I was thinking Bulba-scum, largely due to his ridiculous reaction to my case on him yesterDay and the fact that his scumread on me completely vanished (he can claim he's redoing reads in MyLo all he wants but I think it reinforces that his read on me was bullshit in the first place).

However, Bacde has also bothered the shit out of me toDay. He thinks I'm the wolf, yet his reasoning is flagrantly fuckawful. He still hasn't given any decently updated reads. He's not making any effort to actually understand anyone's alignment. Why, at MyLo, is he being so low effort? That's the question I keep asking myself.

[Syryana]

My impression is that I'm going to Busch Gardens in a bit and have no time right now. I will say that I'm not nearly as sure of Mac-town as I was yesterDay (Bacde kill was unexpected and I'm not a huge fan of his entrance toDay either). It seems like a pretty large coincidence that Mac came into the thread with an entrance almost identical to that of Bacde. Considering that entrance was largely what caused Mac's suspicion of Bacde in the first place (and mine too, that was pretty much what kept me from voting you yesterDay Bulba), I'm no longer sure of my read on him.

More when I have time.

[Syryana]

I was hoping that a day or so away from this would give me fresh perspective on this game.

I was wrong.

I'm still torn between the two of you.

[Syryana]

zzzzz

VOTE: zabriel

zzzzz

[Syryana]

Syryana, do you have any questions for me?

I'd like that comprehensive Mac case you promised.

[Syryana]

oh wow. no posts? I know I've been V/LA but what's both of your fucking excuses for this shit?

when I'm not hungover then I will find the wolf. and I will kill it with my bare hands.

meanwhile the other townie could try and pull their finger out of their arse and make themselves obvious to me.

Are you fucking serious? You vanish for 90% of the game Day and want to bitch about nothing happening? Get fucked.

Sorry. I've been working on getting my own game up and running, as well as some other personal stuff. I haven't had a lot of times for my games in general. I have a tutoring appointment I have to keep in a couple of hours, but I should be back around 6ish.

Where's that fucking Mac case you promised like two weeks ago?

[Syryana]

Why, thank you Bulba!
VOTE: Mac

[Syryana]

And that's for Donner Party, biotch!

[Syryana]

Wolf QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/EmK5auXgKiLY7

I don't mind posting this, you all will get a kick out of it. I stopped posting near the end. I'd appreciate the mafia QT if you all don't mind?

That dead thread was a fucking journey. And fuck fuzzy for spoiling it all! I would have loved to see your natural reactions, not "oh hey he's scum look at all the things that are transparently scum!"

DBK, well done! The primary reason I killed you was to winnow down the list of unlikely lynches. You and Bacde were the two I felt were hardest to be lynched, thus I killed you (Bacde was mah brah until like Day 5)

GM, I knew you were the last mafia as soon as you started buddying up to Bulba after I went after him.

Bulba, we're square for Donner Party now!

Bacde, I love you, but you shouldn't have given up poking me the way you did.

Kuribo, you were the only person I regretted night killing. I paid you homage in the QT!

If anybody has any feedback I'd love to hear it!

[Syryana]

Oh and great modding, Zabe!

[Syryana]

Holy shit we won?!?!

Syr, I love you, <3

If you ever ruin a dead thread for me like that again, I will find you and gut you.