Micro 161: No-Newbie Newbie (over)

[Mr E Roll]

Our town has a illness an unhealthy presence of scum.

It will only be restored to health once we eradicate the…

VOTE: syndromeofatown

[Mr E Roll]

VOTE: 2

Their posts seem to be a bit... spaced out

Is this a random vote or a policy vote?

2 are both heads in agreement with not casting a random vote? Do you not think random voting has any value?

[Mr E Roll]

I think RVS has value, first as it acts as an icebreaker and helps get conversation moving; although this can also be accomplished by not RV’ing as it is almost always commented on. However, I think it has even more value later as it helps establish connections between players. I don’t think I’ve ever seen scum RV their partner so it may be useful after scum flips.

[Mr E Roll]

What is generally called RV’ing is a misnomer its really more voting for BS reasons. Very few people actually use a RNG to determine their vote and of those that claim that they do I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them are lying about it. Therefore I still think RVS’ing helps create connections and is a pro-town action.

If everybody entered the games with a simple “hi” like you did and that was the accepted site meta how would that lead to questions and help move us out of RVS?

[Mr E Roll]

I've been playing forum mafia elsewhere for years. RVS doesn't exist on those sites. People start the game with discussion of the flavor, they fuss at chronic lurkers and shit posters, policy vote, etc. Something strikes an off note, and we're off. Every game has a more or less unique start. It's interesting. You're not looking for some slight variation on a theme to unravel.

RVS kind of cheapens the early votes. Nobody has to ask "why?" when they are voted or otherwise flinch at the attention a vote brings because it's just RVS. The only slight utility I see to it is that in a game where most of the players don't know each other or know how to get things started, there's a starting place. Problem is, it's a somewhat safe starting place for scum.

- f

I don’t know how the presence of a random vote would prevent any of the discussion you’ve mentioned.

I also don’t know of a safer way for scum to enter a game than to just say “hi”. You don’t have to worry about offending anybody or explaining your vote and you sure can’t get an OMGUS vote because of it.

[Mr E Roll]

If 2 had said "hi" in this game but there was consistent evidence to support that they *both* played rvs in other games, then yes, they would probably be scum

ehh I know fery is not big on RVS oh other head is bulder? yeah that is not a scum tell in their case...

No, I just get "y u no RVS????" attention and last I checked I'm the lynch vote leader.

No RVS is definitely the way to stay under the radar.

- f

I’m in agreement that 2 not casting a random vote is a null tell. My premise is that there is value in casting a random vote and his arguments against random voting have not shifted my opinion.

And I wouldn’t worry too much about being the vote leader yet they are still “cheap” votes

[Mr E Roll]

I also don’t know of a safer way for scum to enter a game than to just say “hi”.

Then why not vote me?

I thought your entrance was a joke post based on the conversation that was going on at the time.

² is posting ² many times.

VOTE: ²

This post I’m less sure of joke post/random vote or serious vote?

[Mr E Roll]

I take it by the fact that you didn't move your vote that I am the person you speak of?

Obviously if I'm not going to say who it is then I'm not going to just move my vote because that would be the same as just saying who it is. You weren't the person I was thinking of at the time, but your guilty conscious is noted... Actually, seriously, no, I don't think you're scum though.

UNVOTE: RedCoyote
VOTE: A Stone

Syndrome, if you felt you found scum and thought Coyote was town wouldn’t an unvote have been appropriate even if you weren’t ready to share any more information?

Was Stone the person you were thinking about when you posted you found scum? You haven't made that clear.

To be honest when I read your post 29...

I think I found a scum already. Not going to say who just yet cause I don't want the scumteam to attack me but just letting you know I'm onto you.

… I thought you were reaction testing. Now with your “guilty conscious” remark I’m even more inclined to believe that you intended to attack whomever commented on your post but for some reason decided not to when it was Coyote.

[Mr E Roll]

It's the truth, Rach. He's flooding the thread with silliness. He's overcompensating to make it look as though he has a strong presence. Sometimes two heads are better than one, but I do not need to see a Hydra posting something and then the second head confirming what the first head says. Less is more.

I don’t think anybody is flooding this thread with silliness or anything else. In fact I think the activity level as a whole is low, I’m hoping when the v/las are over and Rondar’s slot shows up that things pick up.

The main thing is he's used a whole lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing (at least nothing relevant to the game/finding scum) and his RVS vote seems... overreasoned I guess would be the word?

Why so reluctant to share your opinion? First your posting in 29 where you claim to find scum with no explanation and then in 108 where you tried to pass it off as just gut feeling? I’m not really feeling your case but at least it’s out in the open now.

his RVS vote seems... overreasoned I guess would be the word?

He made a space pun. That's your definition of over-reasoning? Interesting.

When I first read Stone’s RV I thought it was based on him thinking 2’s posts were “spaced out”. I totally missed the avatar connection until he pointed it out. I wonder if Syndrome is finding the double meaning “over reasoned”?

[Mr E Roll]

Do you think I am making a mountain out of a molehill, MRE? Or do you even think it's a molehill?

Depends, how certain are you that 2 is scum? You seem to think that 2 has been active lurking that’s a legitimate reason for a vote especially considering you haven’t noted anything else that you have found to be suspicious.

Can you explain what you meant by “Less is more”? Is that a general belief you have or something specific to hydras?

[Mr E Roll]

Tne ignored my question :[

Maybe he will answer mine.

Thenewearth , why are all your questions centered around why somebody is voting certain people? It looks to me like you are trying to find a safe reason to move your random vote without arousing suspicions.

[Mr E Roll]

Thenewearth , why are all your questions centered around why somebody is voting certain people? It looks to me like you are trying to find a safe reason to move your random vote without arousing suspicions.

lolwat

What I meant was that TNE’s questions don’t really look like scum hunting to me. It more looks like he is trying to piggyback off of somebody else’s scum hunting. If he doesn’t find anybody scummy maybe it’s because he knows they are town.

In addition to that...

"Oh I find this guy scummy and I'll vote him" --> "Why? What's so scummy" --> "Not telling"

We can't make the ball roll when someone doesn't pushes it

Asking a question and then just accepting the answer like you did with SOAT is not what I would call pushing. I think you are trying to get town credit for something you’re not really doing.

Unvote

VOTE: Thenewearth

[Mr E Roll]

Active lurking? I think you have me backwards, man. I think the opposite. I have noted something that soat said that has caused me pause. I am waiting to see how that develops. I do not have any questions for him at the moment.

From the Wiki:

Active Lurking is the act of posting (thus differentiating it from ordinary Lurking), but the material posted is irrelevant or otherwise useless for scumhunting.

How is that not the same as flooding the thread with silliness?

[Mr E Roll]

I think that having the second head confirming is pro-town. By not doing it we could,i if we were scum, pretend that the second head got a different perspective on something and backpeddal out of an unfortunate situation/read.

- b

I'm mostly caught up. This post is troubling. Why did 2 feel the need to point out that their playstyle was "pro-town".

Then, followed by this to SoaT, who was already giving me scumvibes:

I think I've made it pretty clear already what I want you to do, and I don't buy that you've somehow missed it.

- b

This post made me think that you were reading 2 and Soat as scum.

How come you didn’t vote for either of them?

I’m also a little puzzled that you are now talking about joining them on the Stone bandwagon. Aren’t you a little uncomfortable being on the same wagon as your two early scum reads? Did I misinterpret what you said in post 144? Or have your reads changed?

[Mr E Roll]

You think I'm scum but don't vote me? Why not, what are you waiting for?

[Mr E Roll]

Ok, now explain the vote and then explain why you had to be prompted to vote your scumspect.

[Mr E Roll]

You are awful keen on having everybody else explain their votes but sadly won’t explain your own.

[Mr E Roll]

So right now you are liking me and 2 for the scum team? Interesting.

Coyote, GM, A_stone: Why are you guys still voting squared? I think I missed that part

I knew you were hoping to be convinced to move onto his bandwagon without arousing suspicion.

[Mr E Roll]

I really didn't like Roll's response to TNE's vote, especially #222, it was a direct contradiction with TNE's reads, if I read it right.

The whole TNE-MER discussion after the vote seemed forced to me, I'm not really sure what to think about it though.

Post 222 is a contradiction of TNE’s reads but not of his case.

TNE is calling me scum because of my interaction with 2. He seems to believe that I’m over zealous in defending 2 and refer to him too often. I asked him to explain the vote but he refused to go into any further detail so I had to analyze it myself. Scum motivation for defending another player is either to get town credit when that player flips town or to protect a scum buddy. Based on post 220 I inferred that TNE believed it was the latter.

Also... Scratch that "It depends" Thing on you.

Squared is the "it depends" actually

What does this post say if it doesn’t say depending on if I flip scum Squared is scum?

I’m really confident of my scum read on TNE. I’m still not seeing any real scum hunting on his part. And he is really playing in a risk adverse way, he even had to be pressured to vote his scum read. In fact I’m sure he made post 220 intentionally knowing that I would flip town giving him a ready made excuse not to engage 2.

[Mr E Roll]

[quote="In post 241, goodmorning
@Mr E: Why are you assuming you'll flip? Why mention flips now?[/quote]

I assume I’ll flip because by my nature I’m a pessimist and expect the worst.

I mention flips because that was what TNE’s reads/case on 2 seemed to be based on.

[Mr E Roll]

@A_Stone assuming your vote on 2 was random all that time why did you feel it necessary to Unvote at that specific time? You say it’s because we left RVS but without placing a new vote it doesn’t look like

you

left RVS.

It seems to me you took your vote off of 2 hoping to stop the back and fourth with him.

It also looks like you are trying to redirect attention away from yourself by asking for more content from some of the more lurkerish players.

[Mr E Roll]

UNVOTE: A Stone
VOTE: RachMarie

serious vote. explain later

Any idea on when you are going to get around to this?

This post indicates otherwise, to bring up just one example (of many).

I never claimed every single one of my posts lives up to these criteria.

Why shouldn't they?

I can say that about each and every one of my posts, why can't you?

Can you really…

hi

- RC

Mod

, how many of these lovely pictures do you have? I love these sort of jokes.

… that’s a quarter of your posts. I think you are tunneling and lurking. I get that you think 2 is scum but with the votes so scattered it would be helpful to know what your thoughts on some of the other players are.

*sigh*...

I think I'm having trouble because the slot is a hydra... but f's posts are much better than b's, and after re-reading the thread, i think b's abrasiveness just gives me scumvibes. i know that's not a scumtell, and I'm just not sure since giving the thread another look over.

so,
UNVOTE:

I'd be willing to vote A_Stone as my second top read at the moment.

You’d be willing to vote A_Stone as your second read? Does that mean 2 is still your first read? Is your willingness to vote Stone a compromise vote?

[Mr E Roll]

Who else thinks we should policy lynch ^2 for spamming?

Is this another reaction test? Or are you seriously proposing a policy lynch over your scum read?

I find it troubling that you are willing to explain the reasons for your proposed policy vote but not the reasons for your scum votes. You did it initially with A_Stone and now with Rach. I’m beginning to think you don’t actually want to lynch your scum reads.

As far as 2’s(b’s in particular) posting style I initially disliked the rapid fire method he is employing but decided I actually like it better than the walls he would need to post otherwise to articulate all of his impressions.

[Mr E Roll]

Who else thinks we should policy lynch ^2 for spamming?

I feel that you're poking fun at people for wanting to vote 2 for his posting.

So yeah...

Anyone else find it troubling that Syndrome has time to write why he unvoted me, and yet doesn't have enough time to write why he voted someone else :/

And even if he'd found me as less scummy than Rach, why would he follow a lynch that didn't have support instead of one that was a viable lynch option, it just doesn't sit right with me.

Just out of curiosity if you found Syndrome’s behavior “troubling” and it didn’t sit right with you why didn’t you vote for him? Are you going to follow your own advice and withhold your vote until a viable lynch option materializes even if it’s not one of your strong scum reads?

I’m beginning to like your bandwagon more and more.

2 has been my most consistent town read, their posts have shown a willingness to engage that seems townish to me.

ETL has done a few things that I didn’t immediately like but has done a good job of explaining when questioned that seems genuine without backpedaling.

Rach was an earlier town read for me. She is the only player I’ve played with before and her early posts seemed similar to that game where she was town, but since she has gone full lurker mode her town stock has taken a little bit of a hit.

GM and RC are nullish reads that I throw into the town pile by POE.

I think both scum can be found in some configuration of TNE, Syndrome and A_Stone. Individually each one has looked scummy. I just don’t know which combination is most likely.

[Mr E Roll]

Because you appear to be intentionally unhelpful. This doesn’t seem like something typical scum would do as they want to blend in. However it also doesn’t seem to be something that typical town would do as it doesn’t help with their win-con.

Since I can’t figure out your motives you get to be null.

Maybe if you starting sharing your thought processes it would be easier to get a firm read on you.

[Mr E Roll]

There goes all respect I ever had for you, Rach. Good job insinuating that people being active doesn't have a "real life" outside of mafia games. You probably couldn't have been more insulting even if you tried.

its so fucking obvious you two are scum together I seriously just fucking lost all interest in this game.

Let’s be honest you lost interest in this game a while ago.

i don't know if I can even keep up with my one 9 page micro game. This is sad

well if anyone was curious I have two strongish town reads in Mr E Roll nd goodmorning, the rest are really too weak to say one way or the other

I thought you were going to flake after these posts. And these posts are a big part of my scum read on you. In my experience a lot of people prefer to play town so have a hard time getting into games were they are scum.

But let’s pretend for a minute that you are town… are you ever going to explain your vote on Rach? And why would you lose interest in the game when you have identified the scum team wouldn’t town_Syndrome be motivated to get them lynched?

[Mr E Roll]

Uhuh, I didn't really like the ETL reads progression and them slowly confirming each other as town, it seemed planned to me. I could see it coming from the beginning of their interactions, what did you think?

I don’t think it could be planned. ETL was a replacement.

I don't really agree with this, when we add the fact that I'm town, that leaves those guys. nothing really pinged my radar from either of them about being a team other than tne accepting the gut read explanation instantly, although that was explained.

This…

Is no one really going to answer why they're still voting squared?

And syndrome: Really, Why A_Stone?
And yes, I know I'm voting A_Stone. But that's pretty much RVS. I'd actually vote you based on your answer though

… I’m reading this and trying to decide if TNE is saying “get your own mislynch” or if he is saying “why you voting my partner he hasn’t done anything scummy”.

They do seem to be playing alike though, although soat seems more demotivated and bored. Which probably means he's figured the whole game out in his mind and can't see why the others can't see what he sees.

This would make more sense if SOAT would have actually tried to get anybody to see what he claims to see.

Yet he didn't flake, he's just demotivated. Which isn't a scumtell.

I think it’s fair to say everybody’s motivation in the game has it’s ups and downs but to only have downs does look scummy to me. It’s too easy for scum to say this game is boring I’m not going to try.

If this was addressed to me... I mean that nothing much really happened that would make my reads change

And the only time to comment on anything is when your reads change? Trying to stay under the radar?

[Mr E Roll]

Is that a softclaim? How very interesting.

I fell asleep last night, but here it is:
I get massive scumvibes off Mr. E. Some examples in a bit.

Did you fall asleep again?

You know the clock is ticking if you expect anybody to have time to respond before the day ends you might want to show a little less drama and a little more urgency.

Or is this another reaction test?

[Mr E Roll]

You know the clock is ticking if you expect anybody to have time to respond before the day ends you might want to show a little less drama and a little more urgency.

Five days is not a ticking clock. I'll get to it within 24 hours of this post though.

…tick, tick, tick, DING!

Why is it so hard to show some examples unless you don’t have them?

Remind me again why you are voting Soat ...

As for your reads post: I like. Definitely good stuff AND you brought up something I'd forgotten about: Mr E.
I am not really sure where I read him, but his arguments on soat are strong. How strong? Well, I'll leave that unanswered for the time being, but it's an interesting thing to look at later on. ESPECIALLY if we have a soat flip.

Vote: soat

I have a scumread on soat. I have light townreads on tne and Rach. I have a mediumish Townread on 2. Everyone else I cannot say or guess.

I bring up some points on Soat that prompt you to vote him and that makes me scum? If the points were so strong why didn’t you repeat them? Didn’t want to chance persuading anybody else to vote for Soat? And why did my points resonate so strongly with you, do you know them to be true?

I think your tunneling and confirmation bias and reaction tests have all been busy work trying to make it look like you are doing something constructive when you’re not. What you really want is for the town to just “chill”.

[Mr E Roll]

Raise your hand if you like the idea of a town bloc of ETL, RC, MER, and Mac.

Mac’s slot has not been a town read of mine all game so I don’t think I could in good conscience be a part of a town bloc that included him. Having said that I’m interested to see if he can redeem what Syndrome has done and won’t be pursuing his lynch today.

TNE is still my preferred lynch although GM has forced his way onto my scumdar.

[Mr E Roll]

I’m going to cut straight to the tl;dr.

Honestly it's pretty crap, which is why I wanted to wait a bit more.

The worst part isn’t that it’s pretty crap, the worst part is that you

know

it’s pretty crap and yet you still won’t even begin to consider the possibility that you are wrong and look at anybody else. Not only are you not looking anywhere else but you are encouraging everybody else not to by telling them to just chill.

but coming from RC... interesting.

interesting

He made a space pun. That's your definition of over-reasoning? Interesting.

When I first read Stone’s RV I thought it was based on him thinking 2’s posts were “spaced out”. I totally missed the avatar connection until he pointed it out. I wonder if Syndrome is finding the double meaning “over reasoned”?

Interesting.

As for your reads post: I like. Definitely good stuff AND you brought up something I'd forgotten about: Mr E.
I am not really sure where I read him, but his arguments on soat are strong. How strong? Well, I'll leave that unanswered for the time being, but it's an interesting thing to look at
later on. ESPECIALLY if we have a soat flip.

Is that a softclaim? How very interesting.

1. His RVS vote is on soat. Is this in and of itself scummy? Absolutely not. Is it an interesting beginning to the trail of association tells Mr E was dropping? Sure.
2. Is it innocent or is it QT?
3. This is just an interesting thing I missed the first time.

You seem to have found a lot of interesting things in this game so how could you keep forgetting about it? I think your feigned disinterest is a front to allow you lurk and not interact in any meaningful way. But hey if we all just chill maybe the scum will get bored and lynch themselves right?

[Mr E Roll]

you still won’t even begin to consider the possibility that you are wrong and look at anybody else. Not only are you not looking anywhere else but you are encouraging everybody else not to by telling them to just chill.

Nice assumptions. Pity they're incorrect.

It’s not an assumption it’s a conclusion that I arrived at based on your posts.

I'm still here. I'm gonna be candid - right now I'm lurking. Let's just say the player I need posting is not posting. Trying to devise some suitable reaction test at the moment, whether I'll manage one and it'll work remains to be seen.

I have. I am intentionally obfuscating to clarify my position on a certain player(s) to myself in hopes of being able to present evidence of it to everyone.

Well Mac just confirmed for me without a doubt that I was right, Scum are in soat and Mr E.
(Saying 210 is a towntell, lol)

Game over guys, let's just chill.

[Mr E Roll]

TNE has done literally nothing for the second half of the day. I think he is hoping that we get distracted and let him fly under the radar.

GM has been the distraction that TNE has been hoping for. I know a little something about confirmation bias, and what GM has doesn’t feel like confirmation bias, it feels like scum trying to be too consistent with their reads. Why? Town_GM wouldn’t be able to recognize that her case is “pretty crap” otherwise she wouldn’t be holding it so strongly.

A_Stone hasn’t done anything with his vote since removing his random vote from 2. Town’s most basic weapons are their voice and their vote I don’t know why he hasn’t been using both of them. He has been making an attempt to stay involved in the game and doesn’t seem to suffer from the general malaise that seems almost epidemic. But his involvement seems super appeasing like he doesn’t want to upset anybody.

Soat clearly did not have his head in the game I thought maybe it was because he didn’t like his role PM. But unless he was lying in his exit post he had outside stressors that were affecting his play. Mac hasn’t had an opportunity to post a whole lot yet but hasn’t really pinged my scumdar.

Rach is another player that is dealing with real life issues. She’s lurked for most the day but based on her early posting I still don’t see her as scum.

RC hasn’t posted a ton but seems involved and making an effort when he does.

2 has posted a ton and has paid a price for it. They have been linked as potential scum buddy several times already. But I still read them as town. I liked how they were willing to engage everybody right from the start. The only knock I have on them right now is that b seems to be sulking a little and holding back on his posts. But I read that as more likely frustrated town than appeasing scum.

ETL is right now my strongest town read she still feels genuine and involved.

Tl;dr
Would lynch any of the first three players I listed.
And fair warning to Stone you have the largest wagon so you are probably going to be the compromise vote unless something happens. Hint. Hint.

[Mr E Roll]

So tne vs AS?

I'm willing to compromise but truthfully I'd rather not. So yes.

[Mr E Roll]

VOTE: Thenewearth Time I have given you, as much as I have.

You may claim now, or forever hold your peace.

No, you're not going to claim, because we're lynching A_stone.

- b

COMPROMISE

explain please.

Was under the impression we had minutes left, not hours. My bad.

Oh yeah? With whose vote? I have a reasonably strong townread on him.

tne, on the other hand, I intend to hammer, since my vanity crusade went for naught.

I’m not loving my TNE vote anymore.

Unvote

VOTE: A_Stone

Mac are you willing to compromise?

[Mr E Roll]

You shouldn’t need to.

If TNE doesn’t care enough about this game to come in and move his vote he deserves whatever he gets.

I’ll be back in about two hours. If nobody has stated intent to hammer Stone by that time I’ll move my vote back to TNE even if it’s the hammer.

[Mr E Roll]

Unvote

VOTE: TNE

He gave up.

[Mr E Roll]

I looked at who was on your wagon and I looked at who was on TNE’s wagon. When GM expressed intent it triggered alarms.

I was more comfortable voting with 2 and ETL than with yourself, Mac and GM.

Three of the four people I’ve been most suspicious of voting for the fourth one just made me a little nervous.

I also thought Mac was pushing 2 awfully hard for a compromise especially after GM had expressed intent to hammer and was interested to see if he was willing to do so himself.

I was trying to lynch you and did backpeddle when it looked like it was going to be a no lynch. I own up to that.

Right now I’m hoping my read on TNE was right and my last minute jitters were just paranoia.

[Mr E Roll]

If TNE flips mafia goon I like Stone as the role cop it's the only reason I can think of that he wouldn't have voted him.

[Mr E Roll]

He didn't return the vote. meaning he viewed you as more important than himself.

[Mr E Roll]

COMPROMISE

explain please.

Was under the impression we had minutes left, not hours. My bad.

You disappeared right after this post so I don’t know would you have compromised and switched to A_Stone? And how did you figure out we had hours not just minutes left?

He didn't return the vote. meaning he viewed you as more important than himself.

OH PLEASE

THIS IS SOME MAJOR BULLSHIT HERE

I was working on the assumption that TNE was at least making a minimal effort to play to his win-con, clearly he was not. But can you give me any other sane reason that he wouldn’t have voted for A_Stone with under 24 hours to deadline?

[Mr E Roll]

I wish I thought to check before nightfall. After the card flip I checked TNE's profile. He was not online to return the vote. He was not online after the L-1 vote.

- f

My question is actually referring to TNE’s last(living) post.

I still feel for a MER lynch.

My second would have been SOAT/Mac

At this point in the day it was already clear that the lynch was probably going to be between A_Stone and TNE.

And fair warning to Stone you have the largest wagon so you are probably going to be the compromise vote unless something happens. Hint. Hint.

So tne vs AS?

yep basically looks like that RC

VOTE: TNE

Gives us two options for a compromise at the minute. I *think* i'd like TNE over stone personally.

To me it’s baffling that TNE didn’t vote A_Stone as town, it only made sense as scum partners. GM seemed to know that my theory was going to be wrong. I want to know how GM knew that before the flip or hear her counter theory.

[Mr E Roll]

VOTE: Good Morning

She has been making an effort to appear to do things but I don’t think she is even believing her own points since she has been undermining them.

Honestly it's pretty crap, which is why I wanted to wait a bit more.

I'm aware that this is a playstyle thing for some, but shifting the blame is a common Scum tactic.

I also find it suspicious that she avoided responsibility for the hammer but was around right before deadline to make sure that the TNE mislynch went through.

[Mr E Roll]

See, the problem here is you expecting tne to play it sane.

And how did you know that TNE wasn’t playing in a sane manner?

Besides not being around, what reason would the doctor have for failing to vote the other main wagon? Unreason.

That’s what I asked you since when I said his failure to vote A_Stone was scum motivated and you said that was “Major Bullshit”.

Seemed to know that what theory was going to be wrong? Your theory of a gm-tne scumteam? [sarcasm]Gee, I wonder.[/sarcasm]

My theory that it was TNE/A_Stone team with A_S being the power role. I don’t see any way you could have misunderstood what I was saying.

[Mr E Roll]

I am a bit concerned with AS still. I don't really care for that answer. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think AS was doing like how attorneys do when a judge sustains an objection? Then the judge tells the jury not to remember what was just said, but you can't really "unremember".

Is this the point you want acknowledged? I agree with your analogy, but don’t really see any scum motivation for A_S talking to a dead TNE so I’m not sure why it changed your read on him so dramatically. Maybe I’m just missing your point.

Why do you care if you look bad RC?

This is a pretty good question. RC do you think Mac, GM and A_S look bad for not voting yet today?

[Mr E Roll]

If he did expect him to respond, what was the motivation behind disputing a dead man's stance (that he was busy)?

I don’t think his motivation was to dispute TNE being busy. I got the impression his motivation was to discredit 2’s position that TNE wasn’t online.

[Mr E Roll]

As for misunderstanding - I've not looked at the thread since it closed for Night. I've been on vacation. You will forgive me for mainly remembering my own thoughts rather than those of others.

It seems like you are even having trouble remembering your own thoughts. Can’t remember if you placed a vote? In fact it looked like you even forgot who you was suspicious of until Mac reminded you. I think the vote came now because RC said people who weren’t voting looked bad. That's why there is no case accompanying it you rushed out the vote figuring you could wing something together later like you did yesterday.

[Mr E Roll]

I'm rather busy today, so it'll take me a while to make the case, but there is one and I will present it... eventually.

And do you have an equally compelling yet mysteriously absent case on Mac since you indicated your vote was basically a toss-up?

It's on either of you.

I keep thinking I had voted but obviously not.

Vote: Mr E

I know you are busy so take your time winging that one too.

[Mr E Roll]

You'll get lynched regardless of his flip.

- b

How do you feel about this now?

If GM is by chance town he would be the obvious intended mislynch for today.

Fuck I just hammered him.

Why? We had like a week until deadline. You didn’t even ask for a claim or nothing.

[Mr E Roll]

I understand that you want us to believe that you accidentally hammered.

But I am entertaining the idea it was intentional. You did express your desire to see A_S die when you placed it.

Yeah you can die.

VOTE: A_Stone

In fact now that I look closer at it I wonder why you didn’t say “you can die, scum”.

Why the urgency to change your vote upon replacing in? Were you fully caught up with the game?

[Mr E Roll]

Anyway, keep talking. I'm outing my report when time comes.

This right here is the keystone to winning the game.

If GIF is what he is claiming to be then the game is in the bag. Everybody has had a chance to counter-claim and nobody has so it’s most likely true. This jives with my strong town read on ETL so I’m basically going to accept it as fact.

I think that replacements get the results for the slot that they are replacing into right?

So ETL investigated 2 night one

First thing first

Dear Town
2 is town as hell.

Night two GIF investigated either GM or RC and got a scum result. If he had received another innocent he would have known the scum team through POE and based on how rapidly he played yesterday I think he would have already spilled the beans.

Sounds about right GIF?

[Mr E Roll]

Well shit. This went horribly wrong.

I'm actually a Jailkeeper, and I tried to imply that I'm cop to see if there was sudden panic/distancing.

I liked it better when you were a cop and there was two confirmed town.

So are we lynching RC or GM?

- b

Who would you prefer? Do you think it makes a difference?

I am incredibly confident about this so

Vote: RC

Based on the strength of your case I can certainly understand your confidence. *Sigh*

[Mr E Roll]

@GM and RC

Who do you think is the 2nd scum and why?

- f

Also i want rc to answer 2's question.
MER you should too.

The most likely team is GM/RC. Individually they are the two weakest reads of mine left in the game. Reading them in ISO together it is amazing how little interaction they had together until today. Even after RC voted GM with nothing more than an emoticon as a case GM doesn’t comment on it. I think in the words of GM she was trying to hike in a certain direction to get the town to look at strong connections while she and her partner maintained a low profile with each other. Also I thought it was telling how after you gambited a cop investigation they both took an almost instant interest in each other, felt like scum looking to be on the right side of a cop investigation.

Less likely is GM/2. Once again reading them in ISO GM doesn’t have much interaction with 2 so the low profile point is present here also. Also I’m slightly concerned with 2’s voting as it relates to GM. Day one 2 sucks up the hammer for GM after saying they would refuse to compromise. On day two 2 again states a refusal to compromise but the counter wagon this day is GM. Looked like they really didn’t want to see a GM lynch. Which is what my questioning today was trying to ascertain.

You'll get lynched regardless of his flip.

- b

How do you feel about this now?

So are we lynching RC or GM?

- b

Who would you prefer? Do you think it makes a difference?

I’d liked f’s response to the first question not so much b’s. Neither one answered the second question.

The least likely remaining possibility is a RC/2 scum team. The main concern here is that they were each on both the town mislynch wagons. But even that almost makes it less likely that they are a team as mafia theory says that some but not all scum will be on any major bandwagon which again points towards GM being the partner.

[Mr E Roll]

What motivation would I have to roll on my partner so early in the Day?

So you do have a partner?

Fear. When we thought GIF was a cop we knew he didn’t have a second innocent since otherwise he could just claim and guarantee a win so you knew the investigation was either you or your partner so that’s how you framed the argument. Just because GIF pulled the rug out from under you doesn’t mean you could backpeddle without raising major suspicion.

[Mr E Roll]

GM why didn’t you vote me today?

You’re setting me up!

You know that there is a good chance that you are going to be lynched today when you flip scum it’s going to make it look like I’m your partner since you never really tried to lynch me even though I was your strongest scum read just about all game.

If RC gets lynched today no sweat off your back since you can just continue tunneling on me.

You voted RC figuring it helps him tomorrow if you die today and doesn’t hurt you at all tomorrow if he dies today. Motivation enough?

VOTE: Good Morning

You’ve been asking for this show down for days now is as good as time as any.

[Mr E Roll]

I wasn’t going to post until N did the lynch scene but I think RC already spoiled that so…

oh well Mr E deserves it.

Thank you. But to be fair I think it’s only because I was willing and

able

to be more active than some of the town players. I think if TNE, Rach, SOAT, ETL and to a lesser extent GM had been more present and active things could have gone much differently. I hope everybody who experienced misfortunes during the course of this game are seeing their circumstances improve.

This is the second time I didn't listen to my gut instinct and cost the game q.q

Don’t blame yourself too much you didn’t even vote. But you are responsible in that you didn’t even share what your gut feelings were. I think it was still possible to persuade 2 that it was a RC/MER scum team but it was going to take some effort.

Anyhow I didn’t think this was the most interesting or active game but I did enjoy the player list and would definitely play with you all again. I hope you all feel the same way.

RC it was great being your partner and you did exactly what you said you would you played it cool.

And finally thanks for modding N. I thought you didn’t a flawless job.

[Mr E Roll]

GIF all kidding aside was the hammer accidental?

[Mr E Roll]

Scum QT

[Mr E Roll]

Actually I would have pushed that point alot harder as town.

[Mr E Roll]

Well all those V/LA didn't go to waste since I passed my medical exam.

Congrats!

I was trying to be that "Scummy enough not to get NK'd, but Townie enough not to get lynched"

Apparently too much scum, not enough town

I would have fought tooth and nail to NK you N1 if you didn’t get lynched.

Nope, I'm not the lynch today

At first I just thought you were being smug and over confident but then when A_S asked for your claim it clicked-- you had a trump card. And when 2 told you not to claim I thought they saw it also. That’s why I bailed on your wagon until almost the last minute I did not want you claiming and drawing the JK protection(if there was one).