Newbie 1367: Maestro's Newbie Newbie (SCUM WIN!)


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Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:16 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Spoiler: This is my IC intro, you may view it if you want, though I'm spoilering it so that those that don't want to read it don't have to read a wall.
Hey guy! Welcome Mafiascum.

I am Ms. Marangal and I am the Inexperienced Challenged (IC) Player of this game. All this means is that I am here to help you all learn how to play, and get accoustomed to how things run on this site, and possibly even help you build and form your own play-style. I am also here as a player who's goal is to win and should be treated as such.

As an IC, I am also here to answer any questions that you may have about anything that you may need help with. When it comes to Theories, I will not lie but rather, answer the Theory question the best I can. My actions and motives in this game will be governed by the "Being a good IC" article.

These are one of the few Articles in our Mafia Wiki system. Some Other Articles that you may find useful as you try to find your way around this site are Quick guide to mafia, Quick Guide to Mafiascum, and A beginners guide to being Awesome at Mafia.

If someone uses words, or phrases that you do not know the meaning of, you can take a look at the Glossary or the Commonly used abbreviations page.

If you want to take a look at other Articles on this site, or need more help from the Wiki, these two pages should help you get the help you need
Category: Articles and Category: How to Play

While I will try to do my best to help you all, the best teacher is Experience itself, Along with seeing what works for other people. You can discuss Theories, ask questions, and all of that here in the Mafia Discussion Forum not to mention that it's an amazing place to learn more about the community and make a few friends.

A few tips from me:
1. Don't self vote. (there are really no points during a Newbie setup where this is a good idea, please avoid it however logical you may think it is)
2. This site frowns on lying if you are a vanilla town role. I strongly advise against lying if you have this role as usually it will only hurt town in the end.
3. A no lynch on D1 and any other day after helps no one. I strongly advise against a no lynch as it robs town of information that can be gained from a flip
4. It's a game - have fun.

We are now starting what is known as the RVS (random voting stage). We are in a low information period because scum already know who they are, and even have a rough idea of what power roles may or may not be in the game. It is now town's job to root them out. Because the start of the game leaves us with no information to start with generally the way to start is to begin voting and questioning other people to see if you can catch them doing something scummy (scummy actions being acts that a scum player is more likely to do then a town player).


Code: Select all

[Vote]Cabd[/Vote]
or
[b][/b]


VOTE: Cabd

or

Cabd

for doing my job.
Last edited by Maestro on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #8 (isolation #1) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:18 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Great, I already fail my first attempt to help someone vote XD

Code: Select all

[Vote] Cabd [/Vote]

or

[b]Cabd[/b]



will come out as:

VOTE: Cabd

or

Cabd
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Post Post #10 (isolation #2) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:25 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

That is true yes. That's how all the games on site go, though if things go well, we hopefully don't have to worry about deadline

any reason you pointed that out Cab?
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Post Post #13 (isolation #3) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:35 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

lol Xeg.

also!

don't ignore my questions. A major part of mafia, and a major part of scum hunting has to do with being able to identify the motivations a player may have. To do that, you have to ask questions, as well as answer them. Not answering questions is a questionable act
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Post Post #15 (isolation #4) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:50 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Quit avoiding my question Cabd
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Post Post #16 (isolation #5) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:50 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

I kinda wanna call you C
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Post Post #20 (isolation #6) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:01 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

We do not edit. Editing is not allowed in a game of mafia

and you didn't answer my question, you answered Xeg's. I asked if you had a reason for posting what you had posted
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Post Post #22 (isolation #7) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:23 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Hmm..

Mk, that's understandable, though we have three week long deadlines so we
should
have a lynch before then.

I have you leaning town for now so

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #32 (isolation #8) » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:27 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

In post 30, Cabd wrote:
In post 29, jonpiolo wrote:
In post 27, Shadi1337 wrote:
In post 19, jonpiolo wrote:
VOTE: Shadi1337
A retaliation vote, I know we're in the RVS but I like to place my votes with at least a little bit of reason so.. yeah eye for an eye.

VOTE: jonpiolo

Will of course remove the vote if interesting information will be added, although I doubt that happening this early on.

Good luck everybody, hope we'll have an awesome game together.

Yeah... May the best team win. LOL
.
Hi there noobscum slip.

Vote: Jonpiolo


The only way to know that he's not on your team is if you're on the scum team. Therefore, you're scum. Better luck next time, bud.
Hmm...

Great way to take us out of the RVS, I like you. Do you really think that this is a scum slip though? I just took it as a joke

Laz, was Xeg scum in that game you played with him? is that why you are voting him now?
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Post Post #36 (isolation #9) » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:56 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

V/LA Until Tuesday
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Post Post #53 (isolation #10) » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:27 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

Checking in, you guys are doing decently well on your own.

Richard Pings my scumdar... I would like to hear more from him
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Post Post #66 (isolation #11) » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:58 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Mara is fine, any nickname is fine as long as I know I'm the one being addressed.

What slip Jebus?
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Post Post #82 (isolation #12) » Wed May 01, 2013 12:13 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

You mean the "may the best team win" Slip? Lovely :|

it's strawmanning at best IMO, It could mean various amount of things though I want to hear his reasons for saying such.

Richard is all IIoA, I need moar from him.

Klazam is good and I'm defintely not seeing Shadi-scum, he seems genuine and he's open with his thoughts which is always good. Klazam, any other reasons for you thinking that he's scum?
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Post Post #83 (isolation #13) » Wed May 01, 2013 12:13 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

You mean the "may the best team win" Slip? Lovely :|

it's strawmanning at best IMO, It could mean various amount of things though I want to hear his reasons for saying such.

Richard is all IIoA, I need moar from him.

Klazam is good and I'm defintely not seeing Shadi-scum, he seems genuine and he's open with his thoughts which is always good. Klazam, any other reasons for you thinking that he's scum?
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Post Post #87 (isolation #14) » Wed May 01, 2013 4:56 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

In post 86, Cabd wrote:The issue is, Piolo totally shut down all communication. That tells me we're seeing serious panic. Town players usually just respond with emotion and pretty much immediately. Piolo seems to be sitting down thinking "oh shit what do i do now"

So yeah, i'd love to see him explain it, but it's fairly obvious he won't/can't/is afraid to.

This is more of a play-style tell then anything I know many town players who don't know how to respond to pressure, but I agree with you in the respect that we need to wait for Piolo to respond
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Post Post #105 (isolation #15) » Sat May 04, 2013 1:17 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Do you really have nothing on anyone else Klazam?

JMO, thoughts on Klazam?
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Post Post #110 (isolation #16) » Sat May 04, 2013 5:18 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

JMO, answer me please
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Post Post #125 (isolation #17) » Sun May 05, 2013 4:13 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Don't have time, I'll be back Tuesday and maybe Wednesday for some of you guys
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Post Post #153 (isolation #18) » Tue May 07, 2013 12:24 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Jmo, I asked for your thought's on Klazam, why are you not answering me? :T

C, why is tunneling scummy, what is the scum motivation behind doing such an action?

Shadi, what about C do you think is scummy? what do you think of every other player in the game, myself included?
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Post Post #165 (isolation #19) » Wed May 08, 2013 9:25 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

jesus, waiting on C's response, and yes I'm talking to Cabd

and I didn't realize that that was an answer to me XD
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Post Post #183 (isolation #20) » Wed May 08, 2013 6:21 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

I
think
I want this

VOTE: Klazam

I'm pretty sure that C is town, and the same with JMO so I'm not going to vote there

Jebus Doesn't, and never has pinged my radar though I can see the Merit behind Shadi
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Post Post #186 (isolation #21) » Wed May 08, 2013 8:04 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

In post 184, Cabd wrote:What's your case on Klazam, Marangal?
I honestly don't really see much of one.

Jebus is more of a case of "I'm not posting anything worth merit, good lukc getting any read other than lurking" which is why my vote rests on shadi.

Because I don't really have one, or one that's stated

I stated that I can see Merit behind Shadi though I'm not really sure if it's the right wagon. If I have to compromise, I guess I could go there but Klazam feels much more shadier

his suspicions on people is superficial, there is nothing behind it and there is definitely no hunting going on in his posts. He's commenting on the game, he's making fairly good observations but he isn't scum-hunting, or I'm not getting the impression that he is.

I do get that impression, however vague, though from you, JMO, and Jebus. As for Shadi, I think he's struggling to cope with forum mafia, but I want to leave him for later especially since he looks like easy scum bait.

Squire, Richard and Laz are all null though I think his partner could be found somewhere in there.
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Post Post #188 (isolation #22) » Wed May 08, 2013 8:35 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

I don't like it, though not really sure if the fluffiness of his post mean anything considering that they all are, for the most part, Prod dodges. He is posting quite a bit elsewhere though so him not being here is strange, and could be indicative of his alignment but I doubt he'd make it incredibly obvious.
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Post Post #198 (isolation #23) » Thu May 09, 2013 6:22 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Shadi, I'm not exactly happy with what you are putting forward, though I do feel that you are in fact trying to hunt for scum and question you major scumspects

ok, I might have lied about you being easy scum bait though you are fairly active and contributing with the game.
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Post Post #204 (isolation #24) » Fri May 10, 2013 8:04 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

Post game Shadi

though I am defintely not going to vote you now, and I still don't really see Jebus-scum this game, though I could place my vote on Richard if we get more votes there
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Post Post #213 (isolation #25) » Fri May 10, 2013 3:46 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Laz, Shadi, and C are all town IMO

Esquire is null town

and Jebus is null with Richard

JMO is null scum

while I feel Klazam is scum

I think C should move his vote to someone more Viable though, and I don't really see his reason behind Shadi-scum and the more he talks, the more he leans towards town for me

I would really prefer Klazam and I'm not sure if I could compromise lynch Jebus, he seems like a very, very easy target
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Post Post #214 (isolation #26) » Fri May 10, 2013 3:47 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

that, and the fact that both my top picks for scum want to go after him makes me really wary
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Post Post #218 (isolation #27) » Fri May 10, 2013 5:05 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

In post 186, Ms Marangal wrote:his suspicions on people is superficial, there is nothing behind it and there is definitely no hunting going on in his posts. He's commenting on the game, he's making fairly good observations but he isn't scum-hunting, or I'm not getting the impression that he is.
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Post Post #221 (isolation #28) » Fri May 10, 2013 5:16 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Jebus could be town, and could easily be replaced while Klazam does have some evidence that he may be of an opposing alignment to most of us, and as such is a better lynch
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Post Post #224 (isolation #29) » Fri May 10, 2013 6:46 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

someone else is going to have to hammer because I'm not going to
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Post Post #267 (isolation #30) » Tue May 14, 2013 10:26 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

I refused to vote for Jebus because I didn't have a scum read on him. I have stated as much and I have chosen NL over a compromise lynch in the past.

Incidentally, I find Esquire to be likely town for that hammer since town compromise lynch more then scum do, the association to the wagon is something scum would want to avoid when possible.

Flipping Klaz on the actions of last night alone isn't the smartest move. Klaz is fairly experienced, and he could have killed Shadi for WIFOM. In fact, Shadi was a WIFOM kill period. NK analysis can be useful in conjunction with other tools and it's under-rated, but it shouldn't be used on it's own.

C, between Laz and Klaz do you think is stronger
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Post Post #269 (isolation #31) » Tue May 14, 2013 11:15 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

The Stronger read

it should have read "Between Laz and Klaz, who do you think is stronger"

Man I'm tired
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Post Post #272 (isolation #32) » Wed May 15, 2013 1:43 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

I answered that, I swear I answered that...

it has to do with the fact that we are both seeing similar reasons for scum Klaz and, I think, he spotted them before me. Similar thought processes Usually mean same alignments. I had Laz as possible scum due to PoE though he was more null at the time, meaning I didn't really have a scum read on him but not yet having him as town made him somewhat viable.
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Post Post #276 (isolation #33) » Wed May 15, 2013 4:11 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Klaz is still a scum-read, yes. I don't like his entrance post, nor am I entirely fond of his responses to your question. it looks like fake concern to me while Laz's posts feel somewhat geniune
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Post Post #283 (isolation #34) » Thu May 16, 2013 8:33 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

C, I did? where? I don't remember stating I added new stuff on Klaz >.>

Esquire, on that sense, why didn't I get killed? I'm the IC, which is usually the target for NK. shouldn't me being alive trigger more bells then C being alive?

what's up with that vote Jmo? I'm getting the urge to vote you for it.

as for Klaz

He's actively lurking, trying to make it look like he's concerned for the game (which looks fake IMO) and isn't doing much and he accused Shadi of being scum for many of the things he was doing D1.

D2, Is where his post look faked. there is nothing worth of note in his posts
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Post Post #286 (isolation #35) » Thu May 16, 2013 11:14 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

In post 284, jmo16mla wrote:Because he's the best candidate for my vote.

Why are you calling klaz scummy, but aren't voting him?
Because I'm waiting for interactions with him, I'm waiting for him to actually contribute to this game...

and I want to see if I'm right before I place a vote.

why is esquire the best candidate for your vote? What makes him better then Laz, Klaz, or Richard?
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Post Post #322 (isolation #36) » Sat May 18, 2013 10:02 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

In post 310, Cabd wrote:^ATE is bad and you should feel bad.

More to come, just got back from the local Swedish Food Festival, gotta catch up and get some drinks.
No.
In post 301, TheIrishPope wrote:
In post 300, jmo16mla wrote:Tunneling is a null tell.

Do you not realize how anti town it is to role fish?
Tunneling is a scum tell for me
. Town should look at everyone, in my opinion, like I am looking at four of you right now.
It is not anti town. It is a simple RQS. I see no harm in it. Role fishing really only works if they claim, which no one has.
Why do you think it is anti town? Also, do you think I am scum?
No to the bolded

Fuck the Italicized part, but this is a town post

In post 314, Klazam wrote:ok.

still not posting. things turned to shit in life,

but one thing I know- theirishpope is terrible. that role fishing was horrible. I mean horrible.

I promise that a good post will be up tomorrow.
and we now lynch this fuck

VOTE: Klazam
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Post Post #327 (isolation #37) » Sat May 18, 2013 1:37 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

No, because we would be in lylo tomorrow.

C, yes I do not believe AtE to be a scum-tell, not on it's own. It's a playstyle tell.

I use AtE alot as town, as do a shit load of other players on this site, though how it's played out may be scum motivated. I don't see Equires ATE as scum-motivated.
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Post Post #342 (isolation #38) » Sat May 18, 2013 2:42 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

uhh...
no

the easiest target to go after at this point would be Esquire due to his hammer. You will fight, and you know how to fight back while Esquire and TIP struggle with that, those two would be way easier to go after.

I have also stated that I wanted your lynch yesterday, and I waited for you to say something of content before I vote you but the only time you actually make content is when you were pressured into doing so.

You're scum Klazam
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Post Post #378 (isolation #39) » Sat May 18, 2013 6:18 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

That AtE...

UNVOTE:

hold on a sec...
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Post Post #380 (isolation #40) » Sat May 18, 2013 6:22 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

explain to me why I'm scummish, you never did that beyond my "connection" with C and beyond the fact that I'm leading your lynch... which is usually town so?

I have been stating that you were a scum read for me, and I have been waiting to place my vote on you. All I have gotten was empty promises that you didn't full-fill until you got to L-1. How quickly people decided to sheep me is a bit concerning, but not as much as your scummy play today.

I'm standing by my C town read, so tell me your case on him because I'm not following. all it looks like to me is a frame attempt to kill one of the most towniest people in this game. The case you use against him is reaching for reasons to think he's scum
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Post Post #390 (isolation #41) » Sun May 19, 2013 9:41 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

Still waiting on that case~~
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Post Post #393 (isolation #42) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:46 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

You're at L2...

w/e VOTE: KlazVOTE:

Die scum die.
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Post Post #394 (isolation #43) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:46 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

VOTE: Klaz
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Post Post #414 (isolation #44) » Tue May 21, 2013 9:55 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

TIP is def. town

I still stand by C town... I think, though I can't figure out why I'm not dead yet. Coming from a scum stand point, it would most likely point to you as mafia due to the fact that, I have been enabling you the most through out the game

I'm also trying to figure out if this is JMO town. He's always giving me icky vibes so I want to hear his case before I make my decision on him though I think I can agree with esquire scum.
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Post Post #438 (isolation #45) » Wed May 22, 2013 11:54 am

Post by Ms Marangal »

...

Fuck

great game guys, I'll give feed-back later though scum played a really, really great game. I was starting to doubt my town read on C a little bit towards the end.
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Post Post #461 (isolation #46) » Wed May 22, 2013 12:11 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

I was surprised to see Klazam flip town TBQH. I didn't really put much stock in C scum because of the fact that he was fairly pro-town. those who did think he was scum didn't do that good a job in presenting a case against him which I think would have changed the game significantly.
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Post Post #468 (isolation #47) » Wed May 22, 2013 12:27 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

actually, that looks fairly balanced to me, if not a tad bit town sided
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Post Post #481 (isolation #48) » Wed May 22, 2013 1:06 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Oh wait, it's Neighbors, not masons... Masons would have swung the set-up to a town sided one. 5 scum in a 20p game is pretty good, and the fact that scum only had one PR while Town had several made the set-up more


anywho...

C, you did play a pretty perfect scum game IMO. you were aggressive, and took control of town really early on which is a really good thing to be able to do as scum and you were able to shut down those who had any suspicions on you fairly easily. I do think that keeping me alive was a mistake, in that the ones you guys chose to kill weren't low threat kills. Towards the end of the second day, and at the beginning of the third you did a bit of WIFOMY action that should have alarmed me but, again, you masked it quite well. You had a whole lot of trust in me, but it was justified well enough for me to not be suspicious of it
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Post Post #482 (isolation #49) » Wed May 22, 2013 1:11 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Shadi:

I really got the feeling that you were genuinely trying to get your thoughts out in game, which came out to be distinctively townie to me. you easily pegged scum D1 and you need to have the confidence to pursue your read. You were fence-sitty, unable to take a real stance in anything which really harmed you, take a stronger stance behind what you believe in and you will do amazingly. It's already apparent that you don't always look on the surface for scumminess which is a really good thing to do, and something alot of players on this site lack so that on it's own already makes you that much stronger of a player. Be more confident and trust your reads over others unless they make sense to you.

You also have the amazing ability to work with town well with people so once you are able to form strong town reads, and are able to work with them you can be an unstoppable force
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Post Post #484 (isolation #50) » Wed May 22, 2013 1:18 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Esquire:

you and Shadi are in the same boat I think, you need to take a stance behind what you believe and not be so easily pushed around. You also need to figure out how to apply pressure. Like Shadi, you don't look at the surface for reasons to why people are scummy, which is amazing. You just need to sort yourself out better, and take time to try and figure out why you really do think people are scummy. You have this great ability to keep an open mind, but often times it makes you look fency and unsure of yourself, though I felt like you were waiting for things to respond to rather than generating responses yourself, you can't always wait for others to move the thread. take the initiative yourself and don't be afraid to put yourself out there. Take a stronger stance behind those you think are scummy, you lacked opinion in the game and you essentially did alot of IIoA which is why it was so easy for Cabd to paint you as scum.

Pedit: Hmmm...

I shouldn't have been transparent :T oh well.
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Post Post #485 (isolation #51) » Wed May 22, 2013 1:27 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

TIP:

you did well I think, you were one of my strongest town reads in game and I could very, very easily see the thought process behind your opinions, thoughts and words. Your tunneling was a major problem, which is funny because you think it's a scum-tell :P You need to trust yourself more, and try to look past the surface of things. All your reasons were superficial and you depended on others to make your decisions for you. Your scum-tells are artificial, and not all that effective. What you need to understand is that Scum-tells are circumstantial and not absolute. they depend more on context than anything. you need to keep a more open mind on things, and be a little bit more conscientious about what you're doing. try not to fall into that trap of thinking that someone is scum to the point where you never see anything they do coming from a town perspective.
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Post Post #492 (isolation #52) » Wed May 22, 2013 1:49 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Laz:

Your thought process were transparent, and I could see where you were coming from and I could sense the confidence behind your reads, though you didn't do anything to convince us of your reads. Your good at finding town, and making a good town core but you could push your reads alot more. The fact that you didn't take the easy way out in pushing people made it easier for me to believe that you were town, though you were pretty fency. The confidence that was sensed was never transferred into your post. The vibe was hard to catch, and it could have been channeled better. more activity, would be nice as well. you were a fairly easy person to forget which is good for scum, but extremely sub-optimal for town
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Post Post #493 (isolation #53) » Wed May 22, 2013 1:55 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Esquire:

yes, you do need information, but you don't always need to post the information before you make the analysis. take what you learned, and explain why you think certain things mean what they mean.

post 48 had hints of analysis, but it left me wanting more. Why was C's aggression townish, why was his jumpiness giving you doubts on that read?

What of Shadi's reason did you like? things like that
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Post Post #520 (isolation #54) » Wed May 22, 2013 3:36 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Don't fizzle out when people ask you for reasons to why?

Like, I couldn't understand why you thought what you thought Klaz. you didn't do that hot a job in explaining yourself :T
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Post Post #535 (isolation #55) » Thu May 23, 2013 4:01 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

if you looked at my post, I was starting to take back my town read on you :P

when you stated that the team was likely to be TIP/Esquire I was drawing questions marks as I thought it was likely to be JMO/Esquire. Then there was the fact that you were pushing Esquire despite saying JMO was the buddy and I was all...

Fuck
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Post Post #536 (isolation #56) » Thu May 23, 2013 4:09 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

after you placed the vote.
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Post Post #538 (isolation #57) » Fri May 24, 2013 12:00 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

In post 35, Cabd wrote:
In post 32, Ms Marangal wrote: Do you really think that this is a scum slip though? I just took it as a joke
Yes. I've had newbscum do this in several games before. When a new player speaks about teams and acts like they have knowledge that the other person is on a different team, I find it a scum slip. It's just something that's worked for me in the past. Its a lot better pressuring him for a read than staying in RVS.

If you guys got null that's fine, but I'd still like to bark up this tree.
This post. Your thought process here was understandable, and why you thought Jon was scum was legit. You also showed that you didn't exactly care about what others think which is usually townish. Your aggression on D1 also looked superbly townish so...
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Post Post #540 (isolation #58) » Fri May 24, 2013 8:22 pm

Post by Ms Marangal »

Shadi, you were many different flavors of town, though you were never close to a scum read. I kinda left you alone because you weren't getting a whole lotta pressure but if you ended up getting wagoned, I would have defended you no doubt.

what gave you the impression that I was scum reading you?
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