Newbie 1367: Maestro's Newbie Newbie (SCUM WIN!)

[Shadi1337]

VOTE: Shadi1337

A retaliation vote, I know we're in the RVS but I like to place my votes with at least a little bit of reason so.. yeah eye for an eye.

VOTE: jonpiolo

Will of course remove the vote if interesting information will be added, although I doubt that happening this early on.

Good luck everybody, hope we'll have an awesome game together.

[Shadi1337]

Well it's no problem with people going on vacation (although it should be pretty easy to tell that in advance instead of signing up for games when you don't have time?)

Also not everybody checks the thread every hour of every day, the player didn't necessarily go silent.

[Shadi1337]

UNVOTE: jonpiolo

Cab, You seem to try every chance you get to vote people out and it's getting a bit old. Why do you want somebody lynched that badly? While knowing chances are pretty high that you lynch a townie first round you still want somebody voted out this badly and secure a wagon - your reasoning, however, is weak. I guess there's more to it.

VOTE: Cabd

[Shadi1337]

I pretty much agree to what's being said above, except for Cabd dude, but I already stated my opinion about him.

[Shadi1337]

Laz, pretty sure you accidentally flipped shadi and jonpiolo there. I have nothing against shadi really. It's piolo that is the scum.

When I read I was about to say I don't remember Cabd mentioning me o0.

I do partially agree with Cabd's perception of Jon though just think he's not my number 1 for now.

And Laz, please don't give me the benefit of doubt just because I'm a newb. I'm somewhat experienced just never played on this forum yet and I know how stuff runs so if you think I'm a scum then go ahead and vote/react upon it as you would with an experienced player.

[Shadi1337]

Are you incapable of reading?

First, it's a retaliation vote, that's a reason to place a vote (he went on me, RVS or not). While announcing that I will remove my vote IF better information is given, and I held onto my promise.

It seems like we have another aggressive player along with Cab now, which I don't mind but being aggressive and unable to make a proper read is not a good combination.

[Shadi1337]

Being defensive is most certainly not scummish?

Both a villager and a scum would defend themselves and what actions/courses they take and you cannot deny it. I will reveal the secret that you have not yet discovered through that many posts: Both benefit from defending themselves; if you defend yourself for wrong/vague/weird/hidden reasons that's where you start seeing "scum". By explaining that it was merely a retaliation vote I'm now scum? It was not meaningless, I picked him because he picked me.

Explain vote --> suspicious
Vote no explanation --> suspicious

Now you tell me I tried hard, how are those few lines hard? with 1.9k posts you must have seen longer walls of text and even the kinds going against each other. I've been rather calm.

[Shadi1337]

Note what i specifically said: "not a town mindset."

I do not see why that is the scum mind set.

If you were actually town, you'd have NOT felt the need to add that promise to remove your vote. In my experience, your promise feels solidly like fencesitting, where you say "Oh, i want to vote, but don't worry, it means nothing." That's a scum mindset to me.

Of course I feel the need, to just place a vote in open like that does NOT seem suspicious to you? Are we even playing the same game? Of course you try to explain why you place a vote and not necessarily after being questioned (which risks a band-wagon on you and that's not always easy to break).

I'd have excepted a townie to defend themselves AFTER the fact, when questioned about it. Instead you anticipate the questioning-meaning you already see it as suspicious- and preemptively defend, neutering the purpose of your vote in the first place. That's a scum mindset to me.

Being proactive is not wrong, if people see that vote being scummy then fine, but expecting to defend the vote after or scum = the most wrong ideology/analysis I've heard so far in this game.

OMGUS votes in RVS IS NOT SCUMMY. OMGUS votes where you then say "oh, don't worry, this vote means nothing." IS SCUMMY.

Nonsensical jumble of words, do rephrase although I do not think that'll help as it's pretty invalid.

vote stands.

Faulty vote* but fine.

also, where did i say that you tried hard?

"over-explaining" when I only explained each thing once, unless questioned.

Votecount 1.04 - Wednesday, May 1st @ 7:22 PM EDT

TheEsquire -

0

^[L-5]

Cabd -

1

^[L-4]

- Shadi1337
richardfrost -

1

^[L-4]

- TheEsquire
Lazurial -

1

^[L-4]

- Jebus
Shadi1337 -

2

^[L-3]

- jonpiolo, Klazam
jonpiolo -

1

^[L-3]

- Cabd
Klazam -

1

^[L-4]

- Lazurial
Jebus -

0

^[L-5]

Ms Marangal -

0

^[L-5]

With

[9]

alive it takes

[5]

to Lynch or No Lynch.

Not Voting:

richardfrost, Ms Marangal

Deadline is in ... (expired on 2013-05-11 21:55:00)

Activity Check:

TheEsquire is V/LA until "the end of" Thursday, May 2nd - Maestro's birthday!
jonpiolo has (expired on 2013-05-02 12:16:00) to respond to his prod

[Shadi1337]

^ Decent analysis I'd say; however, wrong and I will rub it in your face when you realise it's wrong.

What surprises me is that this voting seems fated, Jon voted on me (out of nowhere) and this guy comes out of nowhere and keeps up that vote.

Also why do you address me as a noob? Iv'e already told you I'm a semi experienced player. I've played the game for a while just not on this forum.

[Shadi1337]

Ah, I swapped them. True.

An OK!

[Shadi1337]

The issue is, Piolo totally shut down all communication. That tells me we're seeing serious panic. Town players usually just respond with emotion and pretty much immediately. Piolo seems to be sitting down thinking "oh shit what do i do now"

So yeah, i'd love to see him explain it, but it's fairly obvious he won't/can't/is afraid to.

This is more of a play-style tell then anything I know many town players who don't know how to respond to pressure, but I agree with you in the respect that we need to wait for Piolo to respond

Agreed, and fairly nice analysis ms!

However, I think he just signed up for a game and got bored of it. Or at least it's possible; that doesn't disprove his alignment to scum though; so all-in-all I agree and do wanna hear an explanation.

[Shadi1337]

If something is well explained, then agreeing is no problem and why would I write a post saying the same stuff if I can already agree with a current PoV?

[Shadi1337]

I am "buddying" with common sense, it seems like you cannot.

[Shadi1337]

Shadi is the only one who stands out to me at the moment.

You're the only to read scum while others read strong townie, (or well leaning to townie) while I'm a fan of diverse views and opinions I'd like actual valid reasons; right now you seem to just have too much pride to change your vote.

[Shadi1337]

Is that scummy?

Is what scummy, sorry?

[Shadi1337]

Well Kslam does seem deadly steadfast about me being scum; which for me is mind-boggling. I wouldn't say he's that scummy he probably just wanted to force me to talk. So far neutral/null read on him.
I'm gonna be honest about my vote, it's not the best analysis/placed vote but I do not have much stronger leads.

[Shadi1337]

I'm not Islam. If you want an abbrevation, call me Klaz.

Why do you think my believing you are scum is mind-boggling? what am i missing here?

Apparently what everyone sees but you.

[Shadi1337]

Shadi, the more you post the less I like you. I was willing to give you some room but yeesh.

The system forces me to leave a post every 3 days or so, just trynna keep that up so I don't forget. So yeah I post, deal with it.

The others have made an analysis of me being honest and open about what I'm saying therefore leaning to townie.

[Shadi1337]

Okay, so this post makes me want to lynch you now.

VOTE: Shadi

Sense, this makes none.

A townie isn't "forced" to post, because the townie's only way of playing the game is the day phase. A wolf favors the night phase, and just does the motions to get through the day.

I didn't say I was forced to post coz of any reason but that the GAME itself, the RULES require me to post. Again sense, none.

Also, you're very fixated on what OTHERS think of you, instead of actively scum hunting.

Good point, very good point. I cannot argue against that one, I can only say I'm on Jon but he disappeared and the new guy is doing well. So yeah, kinda just you; but even with you my read is neutral and/or leaning to scum a tiny bit at best. (Since that's the strongest lead, it's also my reason to have a vote on you)

[Shadi1337]

For the record, I'm more used to the werewolf/seer/priest names than mafia/cop/doctor names, so I use the two interchangeably.

No problem

Shadi, quote me where you've been actively going after piolo. Your RVS vote doesn't count, because you unvoted it right after a potential wagon was gonna form. All you've done is very lightly fence sit on piolo while mildly agreeing with some of my points against him.

I know, I kept it in my mind more because I don't wanna be jumping on a guy without any reason. Giving the replaced player a new start is a decent ideology for me. (Unless it obviously shouldn't happen). Anyhow, even if he was there I'd keep my vote where it is now.

Also, last part about me fence sitting is not false. So yeah again, good point. (Although the one about you disliking my post and therefore voting on me is still senseless...)

[Shadi1337]

So shadi, you both insist that you are pressuring piolo but now you say you're giving the slot a free pass because it got replaced? You're directly contradicting yourself now.

If anyone used your logic, shadi, everyone would /out the game at L-1 so that whoever enters the slot gets a free pass. It never works that way, ever.

Mh yeah it might sound like I did .. >_> Lemme try to explain before I hop to bed (nearly 8 AM here in Denmark )

The slip/way he approached (Jon) is what made him suspicious, I just feel like a better character took over and generally all Jon did was doing that "MAY THE BEST TEAM WIN" thing. Granted, was a bit suspicious but I don't know if the new player should take over for that "silly post"? That's why I'm in favour of "acting" like it never was posted. Obviously if the player did something that directly leads him to scum and not only added a little bit water in the cup then I'd still be on his ass.

[Shadi1337]

(Double post, coz I didn't see the 2 posts above the one I quoted >_<)

Well I'm posting to prod dodge and to keep the game active, I will and do not deny that. It's not like I'm trying to find anything to say, but really? Post too little, scummy, post too much scummy. Out of those 2 I think the latter is best to do, because at least you can express your words and hope to sound honest/genuine (I was lucky enough to receive some trust) by doing that). While it may sound scummy or whatever, I rather just being completely honest and tell why and what I'm doing instead of just doing it. If you think I'm over-explaining or it's scummy feel free to vote.

@Klazam
As I said I had it in mind but kept it for myself as I thought Cabd was more worth voting on (for reason please read the post where I voted on him).

[Shadi1337]

Since shadi is too lazy to quote his own post where he voted for me, here it is.

I think I was on my phone, I get pretty ticked off just by typing.

So Shadi, your reason for voting me is:

"Being aggressive and pushing early wagons is scummy"

Yeah.

Would you agree with that? Also for claiming to have played offsite you need to go back and study basic theory, because not lynching day one is BAD, and going into night one without any information is bad too.

[/quote]

While I agree it's bad we have nearly two weeks and voting on people most people think is leaning to townie might be a thing to do in order to get rid of a trusted person as scum. I fully agree the information from the deaths are needed, but why not try to go on the people that are really worth jumping on?

[Shadi1337]

Lemme rephrase the last part >_<

While I agree it's bad not lynching r1 (I'm not trynna start a nolynch) We have nearly two weeks to find a good or at least decent target.

By voting on people that most think are leaning townie/non-scum, it seems a bit scummy (trynna get rid of people that would be hard to get rid of without wasting a night kill/become even harder later on in the game (if peeked or more honesty shown).

[Shadi1337]

Take your time Richard, some things come first!

[Shadi1337]

Shadi, what about C do you think is scummy? what do you think of every other player in the game, myself included?

TheEsquire:

Seems like a competent player and has come out with his own words, which seem honest enough. Null read but leaning to townie. Although not interrogated or asked he's let go of with a little analysis given.

Cabd:

I just feel like all the mini reasons he gets for jumping on a person are too small, every single stupid word or action he disagrees with he votes on you. It's the vibe I'm getting (no offence to you at all dude, it's your playstyle and I fully respect that). So, maybe to divert attention from himself on the tally he tries to start things of others

richardfrost:

Null read, barely said anything game-related. I will give him the benefit of doubt by dodging the game due to school work; I'm in the same pinch myself.

Lazurial:

Seems to question when weird things happen on the game and doesn't use it as an opportunity to start a tally on them, I'd say leaning to townie.

Shadi1337:

A simple townie genius

jonpiolo

jmo16mla:

Seems to care that the game isn't going astray and tries to get everyone go on priorities, I'd say leaning townie. However, his "predecessor" was quite careless but I'm getting an entirely different read from this guy. And to be fair jon didn't really say anything other than that and prolly didn't answer coz he avoided the questions but he probably just stopped reading the thread

Xegarus

Klazam:

I find it a bit weird that he only had stuff on me at first, but I believe he's townie for trying to question "trusted" players and a good player would do that. (However, voting on them is a bit different) but could also be mafia and try commencing tallies on other people than themselves; not that a townie wouldn't but a scum would probably be very subtle about it

Jebus:

Doesn't talk a lot, leaning to scum but closer to null read.

Ms Marangal:

I think she's a townie, no scum read so far.

[Shadi1337]

Shadi1337:

A simple townie genius

Why do you feel the need to say this?

I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE INCLUDE THEMSELVES IN THEIR OWN READS LIST. /endrant

I just copied the player list

[Shadi1337]

Can I get a definition of "tunneling"?

[Shadi1337]

Can I get a definition of "tunneling"?

What i was doing to you.

Ah, I see.

[Shadi1337]

When someone focuses on one player for a unspecific amount of time. During this time the tunneler is calling the tunneled scum, throwing accusations and other such business at them.

I meant to quote both, double post heheehe.

[Shadi1337]

I would not disagree with a wagon, however, our views are too split and diverse to agree. What else is expected r1 though :p

[Shadi1337]

Well Jebus doesn't post often so I'd be fine with that if we can agree? His few posts haven't been dumb but the fact that his post amount and amount of words in each seems a bit suspicious; trying to dodge saying too much.

VOTE: Jebus

I'll let the vote stay so people can follow, if you don't want to that's fine. I'm just trying to get us all together in something even if it's early on.

[Shadi1337]

As for Shadi, I think he's struggling to cope with forum mafia, but I want to leave him for later especially since he looks like easy scum bait.

I don't understand this a 100% could you paraphrase/explain differently?

[Shadi1337]

Shadi, I'm not exactly happy with what you are putting forward, though I do feel that you are in fact trying to hunt for scum and question you major scumspects

Elaborate exactly what you dislike/unhappy about that's put forward? I'm trying to improve my game play and hone my abilities you seem like a competent and understanding player so feedback is more than welcome.

[quote="In post 198, Ms Marangal"
ok, I might have lied about you being easy scum bait though you are fairly active and contributing with the game.[/quote]
Yeah, I'll take the risk of being seen as scum if that's the risk of being active; I prefer an active game.

[Shadi1337]

^ Well that quoting attempt failed, but you can see how it's sructerised

[Shadi1337]

Post game Shadi

Meh, I won't ask anymore but I'm still confused what post(s) exactly xD
(Do you mean that I'm trying to get Jebus lynched?)

But anyway, I don't mind if you vote me out; it's better for you to go on a townie than a PR (Yes, that's a claim; a suspicious one as well I know)

We could give Jebus the benefit of doubt and say he's a man of few votes, as long as you guys get a vote in then let it be on me or anyone else I'm willing to take the bullet.

I agree with Cabd about Richard, he has stated why and even though it could be a way to dodge or a lie it's a validity in itself.


I'd say a read from every player from Jebus would be enough to jump on someone else (if that read seems like a genuine read), right now he's just as contributing as much as an AFK kinda, also why I think lynching him won't do no major harm. Unless he's a PR but that's a risk we have to take with every single person we're lynching.

I wanna settle for a lynch, whom do you guy see as valid targets?

Some say me
Some say Jebus
Some say Klazam
Some can settle with Richard as he hasn't done anything to the game yet (I'd say this is an invalid choice, he stated why if he continues after then please lynch him up and ravage him with questions)

2 of whom barely said anything...

And personally I think the Jebus one seems most valid.

[Shadi1337]

This games activity is terrible. How is anyone supposed to make firm reads when half of the people post and half don't.

Word. I'm not a guy to complain, however some replaces and some people returning from V/LA.

[Shadi1337]

Well 8 AM here I'll sleep, hoping to see some activity soon guys!

Votecount 1.08 - Saturday, May 11th @ 1:07 PM EDT

TheEsquire -

0

^[L-5]

Cabd -

0

^[L-5]

richardfrost -

1

^[L-4]

- TheEsquire
Lazurial -

1

^[L-4]

- Jebus
Shadi1337 -

0

^[L-5]

jmo16mla -

0

^[L-5]

Klazam -

1

^[L-4]

- Ms Marangal

Jebus -

4

^[L-1]

- jmo16mla, Klazam, Shadi1337, Lazurial

Ms Marangal -

0

^[L-5]

With

[9]

alive it takes

[5]

to Lynch or No Lynch.

Not Voting:

richardfrost, Cabd

Deadline is in ... (expired on 2013-05-11 21:55:00)

Activity Check:

richardfrost's V/LA ends today

[Shadi1337]

I think we partially agree on Jebus I won't blame you if we don't get the desired result out of it, gogo. (just woke up xD)

[Shadi1337]

I'm just waiting for another case than Jebus to be mentioned, right now he's the most ideal one for me.

[Shadi1337]

Well, I was gonna finish my case when I got back from work but I see I've been lynched. Good job, guys. That was a really well-thought out case! You've just lynched a good townie.

MM is scum. Laz is scum. That was my analysis.

Can you really blame us? We've been asking you since the 9th of May, that's nearly 3 days..

[Shadi1337]

MEEHHHH, scumbag scum.

That's why I was confused that some strongly saw me as scum, but yeah; place to improve. That's what the game's all about, wrong accusations and detective work.

May be the odds be ever in your favour, villagers.

[Shadi1337]

While spectating the game I became pretty damn sure of Cabd and would have voted him over a million times.
Then when JMO started acting differently I got onto him but I thought Irish was his scum buddy.

So yeah, got half of the team

gg guys!

[Shadi1337]

Oh yeah, reason for me being the R1 kill? Just out of curiosity.

[Shadi1337]

Plus the addition of wifom. You weren't obv town or scummy. Kslam thought you were scum, so I felt like throwing him off a little too.

Good thought.

[Shadi1337]

^ + ^^

Agreed, only thing was when there were 2 votes on me. Everything else was superb.

[Shadi1337]

@MS
What was your complete read of me? It seems to have been going from strong town to nearly scum until I died.

[Shadi1337]

Well you stated you had a strong town read but then you started saying "I'm not sure I like what you were doing" when we were agreeing on a wagon and it landed on Jebus. You then also said "I'm not gonna vote on you now" meaning I saw myself as a candidate for your vote the same round but not as the first one.

[Shadi1337]

A good move, I wanted to scream at the players many times R2 about not killing you. How did you actually anticipate my read?

[Shadi1337]

I see, good job then.

[Shadi1337]

Dunno if you read the game I linked to as my prior scum play offsite, shadi, but I love playing a very aggressive scum game. It allows me to "read the reads" and get an idea of who will read me how.

I see, interesting; would also show you whom to target first to get rid of loudmouths early on in the game.

Don't you find the process a bit risky? Being aggressive could often mean digging your own grave; although you did back down on reads and votes R1. It was first R2 I started to become deadly sure of you, which you somehow predicted. Also CBA to iso or check you up, link pl0x.

[Shadi1337]

Also well, perfect scum win on my first game on this site. Will be good motivation for me to improve much more; hopefully I will meet some of you guys again. Hopefully I will be scum in some games soon as well; I came here to hone my abilities as scum.

[Shadi1337]

It doesn't work quite as well here, but on my home site, the metagame has the alphas and stronger wolves prefer to lurk. Being super hyper active throws everyone's reads off. So does twisting emotions and getting seen as a town leader.

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168615 link for ya. BTW "jpulice" is "paid pyro" on this website, in case you ever run into him in a game.

Thanks I will read it soon, it's 4:33 AM so not right now. I also play Werewolf more than mafia myself, in my case here: http://www.neondragon.net/viewforum.php?f=183 I might even sign up @ that forum you posted to have 1 more forum. I'm currently on 3 including this one (and usually play max 4 games simultaneously I could kick off 1 more)

[Shadi1337]

Damn that took a while to read, interesting approach though, Cabd. And yeah you played better there than here I'd say but there's a lot more to grab from in that game it seems.

[Shadi1337]

Well skipped a few walls but yeah Was a good game.