Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[Cheery Pie]

/confirm

[Cheery Pie]

All 3 posts have been brought to you by BadCop

Vote: ac1983fan

because I'm not scum w/ ac and I don't want to trip myself up on a technicality and start assuming that I am scum w/ ac

-BadCop

Does this mean goodcop might still be scum with him?

VOTE: goodcopbadcop because cops cause me problems

Clearly means you'd investigate guilty.

scum found.

VOTE: NicCage

[Cheery Pie]

Such an interesting start this fine day!

Is this - like your vote - a fluffy introduction, or do you have a meaning behind the use of "interesting"?

I like the way Toomai thinks

And how does Toomai think? Or is that two empty statements?

[Cheery Pie]

Wagon time!

Whenever I see something like this I go to my super secret lab and mark that person down as either "scummy" or just "lazy" (there is some potential to fill both categories).

Further testing is required, but the

pie's

uh eyes are upon you.

[Cheery Pie]

Of course.

However I don't understand why he would vote someone

on the basis that he hates RVS,

while effectively making an RVS vote of his own

.

A random vote is one that is made randomly, without reasoning or justification.

hp [leaves] placed his vote and gave a reason. Therefore, it isn't a random vote. Whether or not you like his reasoning doesn't matter. Whether or not he's already changed his vote doesn't matter. You're misrepresenting his actions (see the italicized quoted part) in order to justify your confusion, or misunderstanding, or whatever (see the underlined quoted part). The point is that you're trying to call his actions into question, but you're pushing too hard on it. This seems forced to me.

Vote: hapahauli

Just this mean I actually have logic with my vote on NicCage?

Well is it after his sheeping of GCBC and other lack of contest so far.

[Cheery Pie]

Anyway I'm more concerned at this point with some of our 1-post-wonders right now, Daemon385 and Varsoon.

Is there a reason you didn't include Dyslexicon in this statement if you're investigating low content producers?

[Cheery Pie]

Anyway I'm more concerned at this point with some of our 1-post-wonders right now, Daemon385 and Varsoon.

Is there a reason you didn't include Dyslexicon in this statement if you're investigating low content producers?

'cause he's not here. He'll have some 'splainin to do for why he's late to the party,

but absence is not alignment indicative.

But 1-post wonders

are

a cause for concern? (ie. they

do

offer an alignment indication?)

So let me see if I'm following this thought train correctly:

• i. The locomotives (posters) who pull out from the station and start puffing (posting) along are not of concern (at least, in our current thought train)
  ii. However, the locomotives who pull out from the station and travel one stop (1-post-wonder)
  are
  of concern
  iii. Yet the locomotives who sit idly in the station showing no signs of pulling out
  are not
  a concern

Correct? Well let me couple that to the following:

• i. In this game we have had a public confirmation take place. Dyslexicon's "confirmz" is there for all to see.
  ii. Yet why are his no posts of no concern to you? Why is there an arbitrary line drawn between a no-poster and a 1-post-wonder?
  iii. It's strange that you respond to the question about reasoning with an attempted reason. But
  'cause he's not here
  doesn't work, 'cause he
  was
  here.
  iv. I'm willing to see a greater implication by not including Dyslexicon in your 'concern for low content producers' post; you know something most of us don't

FoS @ hapahauli

[Cheery Pie]

Can anyone briefly explain what "headclaim" means and why or why not it may be ethical to ask of someone to do? This is my first game on mafiascum, and I have never heard the term anywhere else.

headclaim is to do with hydras (multiple people using the same account), and the fact GoodCopBadCop hasn't shared who is actually posting within that hydra.
The other two in this game, however did state in signups who is in them (though the names are fairly obvious anyway) - Cheery Pie = Cheery Dog & pieceofpecanpie; Jake from Rainbowdash = Jake from State Farm & Rainbowdash.

Just this mean I actually have logic with my vote on NicCage?

Well is it after his sheeping of GCBC and other lack of contest so far.

If you are talking about your first post of the game, 1) I detected sarcasm, so I believe that it was a "true" RVS-vote 2) If it wasn't sarcasm, then it certainly held no logic.

But I gave a reason, therefore not random?
I was detecting scasm/unseriousness from hp [leaves] vote as well, and I'm fairly sure it just came up on GCBC because he was the first to post/vote after the game started.

What's arbitrary? Dyslexicon is awol from the thread. He posted his /confirmz thing and hasn't shown up since. He could have some RL thing for all I know. The point is that it isn't allignment indicative.

Secondly, did you actually LOOK at my suspicions on Varsoon and Daemon? I'm

not

suspicious of them only because they made one post. It's the content of those posts that I find suspicious.

Stop ignoring my post and tell me what you think of them.

All three have however given out the same amount of content, just the two you mention have more words.
NicCage also has the approximately the same level.

Yes we don't know if real life stuff is happening, but we also don't know if the others also had real life stuff on causing them to post only 1 post. Especially in the case of Varsoon, who as you stated had just checked in.

It's also that you're attacking them only 1 day after they posted, when you had already questioned them once.
It's overeagerness to have people focusing on lurkers.

[Cheery Pie]

What's arbitrary? Dyslexicon is awol from the thread. He posted his /confirmz thing and hasn't shown up since. He could have some RL thing for all I know. The point is that it isn't allignment indicative.

Right, for the same token those 1-post-wonders could have some RL things keeping them from posting more too. So you either make a point of the low post count or don't bring it up at all. If 1 post is

part

of the reason you find those two concerning, then accept my criticism or find a better way to counter it.

Secondly, did you actually LOOK at my suspicions on Varsoon and Daemon? I'm

not

suspicious of them only because they made one post. It's the content of those posts that I find suspicious.

Stop ignoring my post and tell me what you think of them.

Alright, point taken. Post count isn't the only factor, you said some other stuff. I too asked Daemon to expand on his opening post in #30, I didn't like parts of it. As for Varsoon, he's only posted once, so I haven't developed much of a read yet.

See the thing is, if you imagine each player who has posted more than once to have simply made a series of single posts then you can actually take those single posts of theirs, compare them, analyse them etc. etc. What you have done is taken two players and singled them out because they have only posted once

and

you find that one post is suspicious. So is the one post thing coincidental then? Or part of that picture of suspicion? Also, do you have any reads/suspicion on people who have posted multiple times? I consider a series of single posts from an individual much easier to read into than a single post.

[Cheery Pie]

Active towns win games. Fact.

Sure thing, and currently - in your opinion - all these active players before us are town?

It's not the idea to keep harking on about the no post, 1 post, active thing at the expense at what you said about those two 1-post-wonders. But your initial reply to the question in #77 was just sooo interesting in it's specificity.

So you've picked two players with 1 post, and both those singular posts give you an indication of their alignment, yet 0 posts doesn't, and those two players both having made 1 post that so happens to both raise your suspicion is

somewhat

coincidental, so it's not a policy lynch on lurkers, just suspicion on two less than active players, but even lesser active players aren't suspicious, so we should just take it at face value that these posts were scummy and you've openly expressed that they were scummy and in no way should we group to coincidental nature of their post count together or the fact that you collectively referred to them as "1-post-wonders" and have simply identified two scummy posts and directed everyone to them... *gasps for breath*

How can I get round to any details of the points raised when I'm still trying to wrap my head around what's actually going on?

[Cheery Pie]

It seems as though you object more with how I presented my suspicions than my actual suspicions. If so, stop this pointless nitpicking. You're wasting both of our times.

I agree with this, however I consider it to have been a necessary evil. Just latched on to something and thus became a stickler for clarity as a result, didn't deliberately set out to do so or waste time. I don't feel the time has been wasted. I've actually appreciated the responses and am better off for them, but if that's done your head in then...

So what you said on Varsoon seemed accurate, but too early to establish anything. Yet, now there's been a couple of posts that sound a bit like a tennis commentator saying "and he's used his racquet to hit the ball" in terms of game insight (ie. very little). I don't like the developing pattern, it's still too early to establish this as an alignment read imo, but I hope it changes nonetheless.

And Daemon remains cemented with that 1 post in hand. I've asked him to follow up on it, you want him to follow up on it, I'm sure everyone would like some sort of follow up. But until there is a follow up we'll have to remain level-headed with our discontent. It's not an easy or necessarily sensible road to point

j'accuse

fingers at either of these two just yet.

[Cheery Pie]

As I said before the actions (or lack there of) of the one time posters so far I can see looking suspicious but not completely finger pointing since there is a lack of evidence. I am at fault for the lack of content but not at fault for a positive ID. Which I will soon correct.

You can start correcting this by responding

directly

to hapahauli's thoughts on your mistake: "You displayed that you weren't reading the thread, and that's not a pro-town thing to do." I want to see a response to this.

Anyways I myself can agree and would like to know as well can see what Hapa means in his statement regarding how that all brings just suspicion on us but as well as you as a possibility.

I could probably do without seeing sentences like this. What does it even ...

[Cheery Pie]

Because it'd give good info from what you've said so far and what people have responded to.
Yawn.

Does that make it a good day 1 lynch though? Do you need reminded that active town are dangerous to scum, you do not lynch people who almost everyone is townreading day 1 ever.
Whatever information we would get from their lynch would also come if they were nightkilled, with the added bonus that we actually lynched someone that is playing scummy.
Scum aren't going to kill people that are playing scummy for us, they might however kill people you're considering good information.

[Cheery Pie]

Also, why are you grave-digging my posts? I made that analysis on Daemon many days ago. The least you can do is look at my recent content.

Are you scared of past content? It's still valid for what your alignment might be
There's no need to be focused only on the present.

[Cheery Pie]

post_id=4936333 time=1367913423 user_id=10128]You guys should all stop overreading Varsoon's posts

But why? When I overread Varsoon his posts look scummy, and catching scum is the idea yeah?

[Cheery Pie]

Yes I see, that wouldn't be a good thing to do. Although I'm not trying to make him scummy, I just see scumminess bubbling away beneath the surface if I choose to look a little deeper. But if I'm swimming about unaware of what lies beneath then sure, I can convince myself it's perfectly safe.

[Cheery Pie]

As far as reading goes, read this:
I'm town.

I read that as possible scum trying the easy option of getting pressure off them.
There's not going to be lie detecter in this game, so why bother stating this

three

times, what benefit does it give the "town" you?

I would disagree with me giving half a dick about this game. I simply have a little experience in regards to this type of mafia. The reason I am voting Nic is because he has just been wrenching at my gut for quite a while now and he is giving me no reason not to. Something doesn't register right with him. Finals or not if true is understandable, but that still doesn't keep me from being suspicious of him. I also don't trust Scott so much because in my opinion a lot what he says seems scummy.

And I'm the only one to draw some attention to you for sheeping and providing nothing, and conveniently I'm a new scum read! Very interesting.

Is there a post somewhere we're missing of you doing this

Because if it's only 214, I'm confused on how this is working, when you haven't been the only person to mention Daemon has provided nothing.

Though I'm just as baffled by Daemon's response to this, seeing as so far the only mentions of him by everyone have been a lack of useful content.

[Cheery Pie]

Regarding acfan, I don't understand why anyone who is town would not use their vote

That would most likely be a personal thing then.
Seeing as you also did the same thing regarding Pie's early suspicion of you, but whether votes are in use is never a scumtell for anyone.

@ Cheery Pie

Y u no be active, I miss you =(

In all seriousness, I have no idea where you stand read-wise since your pursuit of me in the early game. Can you give me an idea of your scumreads at the moment?

You definitely are serious about activity levels.

My current scumreads are NicCage, Varsoon and Toomai.

Everyone else is still null or has become a town read.

[Cheery Pie]

What do you think of my analysis on Varsoon here:
viewtopic.php?p=4943881#p4943881

Also, can you specify who's town and who's null in your mind?

Counter acted by that fact of him announcing that he is in fact town twice and the many other placed hints that he's trying to get that opinion forced onto himself.
I'm also not seeing your someone to trust argument as a towntell, but then I'm not in your shoes and don't actually know your alignment as more than an educated guess.

Exact townreads don't actually matter at this stage, but the basic of it and what I just posted are if I'm questioned them somewhere and they're not on my scum reads list, they're being read as town.
(leaving the most recent questions which haven't been answered yet)

I'm only willing to lynch one of the three I mentioned before at the moment, and since I dislike reads lists, you're not going to be getting a complete all at once list out of me. Unless you know exactly how high/down a list a scum buddy would go if such a person was scum, I don't see the point in anyone's reads lists.

[Cheery Pie]

[...] last I checked both of us like Varsoon for town, so that wagon needs some healthy explaining.

Perhaps you could explain how several "guys I'm town" statements lead to a town read? Two votes isn't exactly a wagon either.

[Cheery Pie]

I mean honestly GC, have you looked at your partner's posting at all? Whatever IIoA means, it must apply to BC as well.

I don't know if either of can actually be described as having information.

Vasroon is definitely appealing to emotions though.

I am town.

UNVOTE: , VOTE: Varsoon

[Cheery Pie]

Eh, if I was appealing to emotions, you'd be crying as you put that vote down, your heart torn due to the cognitive dissonance of truly loving someone and thinking they are scum, wondering if this is the right thing to do, as it'll always put distance between us--what comes first? A man's duty to his people or his duty to his love?
On the real, I just said I was town.

Appealing does not equal succeeding.

and I'm sure you can figure out from your previous statements of you saying you're town and my responses to them, that I don't believe you are town.

[Cheery Pie]

@Cheery

Vasroon is definitely appealing to emotions though.

Saying "I am town" is not Ate btw.

It appeals to the emoticon of annoyance and makes you want to just walk out of the room and ignore him.

Probably more to fear/paranoia, but that doesn't change the fact him continually doing it is still scummy.

It's like he's faking a post restriction.

[Cheery Pie]

prod Scott & zef please

Did you fail to read three posts up from this post (aka the votecount) that said they already were prodded, if so why were you not reading the votecount? If not, why did you nerf to ask for them to be prodded?

[Cheery Pie]

Go to the last VC and what is happening. Varsoon is getting ran up against NC. What is the reaction from Varsoon? Attack a player who is voting NC. That accomplishes absolutely nothing from a scum perspective and instead is more of throwing rocks at a hornet nest. Not only is he making a vote that keeps him closer to a lynch as the leading wagon while easily being able to vote NC, but it also stands the chance of angering a player off the wagon who is defending him.

That doesn't explain why he was town beforehand that point.

and I still disagree, simply because that vote and reasons given looks to me like weak distancing and thus that he's moved somewhere else won't change my mind.

Which therefore means I'm now reading you slightly scummy, and the fact you've explained some differences doesn't mean much to me. (probably because my own hydra isn't working seamlessly either, by which I'm waiting for Pie to see if it also looks that way to him or if I'm just way too annoyed about the constant "I'm town" comments coming from Varsoon that I've started tunneling.

[Cheery Pie]

@Hapa

I think the reason people asked again for your scott case was possibly because of this at the end of it.

And what's more about all of this.. he just seems really... angry. He has a very critical tone, and seems like he's going after players because he's critical of their playstyle rather than because he thinks they're actually scummy. I'm unsure how much of this observation is me being potentially confirmation biased, so I'll look at it again and attempt to articulate it better.

I'm not entirely convinced about him by your case on him, in detail you're attacking him for doing playstyle stuff, when basically that's what I'm seeing you're going after on him.

[Cheery Pie]

Cheery, you need to unvote Varsoon and start talking about someone who actually has a chance of getting lynched.

Thoughts on NC and Scott would be helpful.

As far as I've aware, he does still have a chance of being lynched, just because you're not going to place your on him, doesn't mean that everyone else follows your thought process.

As for Nic, I'm not as convinced he is scum as I was earlier in the day, and if I were to vote him, he'd be practically lynched, seeing as Jake has unvoted for just a second and considers his vote still there.
His wagon has also been around for the whole day, and I'm really not sure it would be a good choice to actually go through now.

[Cheery Pie]

I don't think it's all playstyle stuff. He goes around with these one-liner prods of suspicion and never follows up on them. He's done it to like 5 players. Furthermore, there's that post he directed to Daemon in which he tries to take credit for shit he clearly didn't do. Couple it with general lurkiness, and I think we have a scum-candidate.

And if you still think that's "playstyle..." is that not exactly what you're doing with Toomai? I've heard plenty about how you're pissed off that he's saying "I'm Town," and virtually no other substance.

I haven't done anything with Toomai.

I can see previous games from both Varsson and Scott, Varsson hasn't been trying to make truth by repetition in previous games. Scott has used one-liner attacks he hasn't followed up in previous games.
It's not good play, but it doesn't necessary make him scum.

[Cheery Pie]

Mmmm, that's a quick wagon.

@acfan

@Hapa

- Calm down... He hasn't even responded yet.

I have, he seems scummy, I agree. I'm not so convinced with my vote on Scott atm so i'll likely vote acfan with you

but I want to see him answer me/you first.

Cage or acfan today. I will decide in a bit.

^^I decided for you

VOTE: acfan1983

A chance to show off my p2 read being accurate? I'm in

-BadCop

He hasn't responded yet derp.

Toomai's quick #382 sheep vote is terrible. If for some reason screaming "scum, scum, scum" over ac1983fan is the jolly thing to do for today, then I want there to be a mark of suspicion against Toomai for later.

[Cheery Pie]

So this is a

big difference

from this game. Where instead of voting someone for being anti town and then continuing justifications to find him scum, you

drop all your scumhunting on Dyslexicon in order to vote Varsoon

.

I think he dropped his last piece of scumhunting since it was obviously wrong actually.

But anyway that wagon came too fast and Hapa's too overeager that I can't see it as actually being on scum.

Though did you see if he had this mentality of going for anti-town lynches in scum games, I only recall you linking town.

if anyone wants proof of my stance about lynching claimed PRs, I will be happy to link a game.

I don't recall seeing this stance in monopoly mafia. (even before Lurker slipped)
You had no troubles lynching a claimed cop in lylo there either.

[Cheery Pie]

How is this justification for not killing scum?

Though did you see if he had this mentality of going for anti-town lynches in scum games, I only recall you linking town.

I only looked through his town-games. He had a scum-game where he mentioned something about voting anti-town, but I didn't look at it very carefully since he replaced out on Day 1. Inconclusive game.

It's possible he has other scum-games (I only searched him for games where he said "anti-town").[/quote]
It means I don't believe he is necessary scum at present.

I'm just wondering why since you went through all his games you therefore missed another old one in open 122, as it probably does reinforce your point.
Mini 1341 is the only recentish scumgame I could see (which is possibly the one you saw where he replaced out), it had him holding off voting a lot longer, but the whole you yelling at people that this should happen is still putting me off actually wanting to vote him.

[Cheery Pie]

Cheery, what is your read on me?

Mmmm, don't really feel like filling a self-appraisal request.

You've been "hinting" skepticism at my motives, and I want to be clear what you think.

Have I? Perhaps skeptical of your

actions

.

And you're still talking around the issue here. There are many non-meta reasons with for which AC fan is scum, and you consistently refuse to address each and every one of them.

I don't know what part of the issue is being talked around. Whether to vote ac1983fan or not to vote him seems to be the issue. I'm in the second camp. I wouldn't say the onus is on me to pick apart your case, that's more for ac1983fan himself to do. However, I believe the strength of your reasons has come through a meta mentality, yet removing that leaves a lot of WIFOM. And there's a claim to take into consideration.

[Cheery Pie]

Ok. What's the difference? If you're suspicious of me, tell it to my face so I don't have to deal with your random "badgering" comments.

The difference in questioning your actions and not your motives is that I'm not casting suspicion on your alignment, rather where you are putting your energy: vis a vis making the cases on 1 post wonders, eagerness for ac1983fan lynch and so on. Right now it'd be very difficult to construe your posting as scummy and that's not what I'm doing. I also don't see how this is "badgering" or random. That seems to imply it's out of place or that you have some sort of suspicions on what I'm doing. Dealing with questions towards your actions comes with the territory, I'd say it's no different from what you've been doing to others. However, if you feel it is, please elaborate why that's the case.

If you are not voting ac1983fan, the onus is on you to explain why. Or do you seriously think Varsoon is a better candidate at this point?

Right, well I thought I gave a rough indication, but a couple of simple points:

• - the wagon developed extremely quickly (at this stage that's not often an indication of town-only involvement)
  - there are people who jumped on the wagon that I either have suspicion of, or feel they joined it weakly and thus leaves me developing suspicion
  - there's been a PR claim, not an ideal one, but my preference with these things in the past is to not lynched claimed PR's if there's reasonable opportunity for them to do something with it
  - we could take the PR claim into consideration for tomorrow, both with possible set-ups and future courses of action eg. should ac1983fan keep his 1 shot for later and bait out a scum kill? or try to protect key targets to help town for tomorrow? etc.
  - the case on ac1983fan isn't definitive (RE: meta) and so there's no reason to be close minded towards alternative explanations for his actions or lynch targets for today
  - there are alternative lynches and time (just) to lynch these people

I wouldn't go so far as to say Varsoon is a

better

candidate, but he feels like a viable alternative. I'd also consider NicCage for a lynch. The wagon on ac1983fan happened faster than I would've liked and could've reacted to. I was wary of its speed and the PR claim only increases this notion. That's not to say you don't have relevant points, but in the scope of how it played out I've gotten a bad feeling about it all.

This wagon and the deadline has caught me between a rock and a hard place. I don't think there's really time for elaborate cases to counter ac1983fan's, it's going to have to be

all on

or

all off

instead. So if people aren't going to be moving their votes then I'll hammer if need be.

[Cheery Pie]

All this "don't lynch the PR" stuff

does not apply here.

It applies to normal doctor/cop claims, but not this one. In the case of a 1-shot claim, we lynch the guy if we think he's scum. End of story.

What makes a 1-shot claim all that different from a full claim? It's still a PR claim, and since we don't actually know what the setup is in this game, limited shot powers may actually be all we have.

You voting Varsoon implies that you think he's the

best

candidate availible. If he's not the best candidate in your mind, who is? Place your vote on that person.

Out of the people who have wagons, yes Varsoon is the best option. (for information that may be confusing you, some responses/conversations have changed which hydra head is speaking, I think Pie is less clear on Varsoon than I am)

I don't like this attitude. I feel like you've been talking around things and doing everything in your power not to make a vote-committment. Your plan here is essentially to wait and see, and give the town your "stamp of approval" by hammering someone. This is unacceptable when we have 24 hours left in the day. We need to be discussing reads, not doing hwat you are proposing.

I didn't like your attidtude about how acfan is scumscumscumscum.

There was still hope that other people would see the sense in Varsoon, but I guess there isn't now that Scott has moved off. Yes I haven't argued that much about it, but then I'd be hypocritical of my hatred towards people trying to lead the town around.

The problem is, I can't find any compelling reason for why the policy applies in the case of this current claim (1-shot doctor).
1) It won't be possible to verify his claim later, and outing a cop to do so is not a good long-term play.
2) The "suboptimal" decisions that scum could make here (NK'ing AC for example) are very unrealistic. If scum have a roleblocker, they can nullify his role without killing him. Secondly, I don't think it's realistic at all for scum to NK ACfan (if he's town) because he would be an almost sure-fire lynch for D2.

If he is the only protective role, then unless he is scum sacrificing a night, then it is possible to verify without resorting to a cop. (it would probably require massclaim though)
If he is a doctor, he has a protect in action tonight, scum may therefore avoid the optimal kill killing it would be protected. We do not know if they have a roleblocker or not. (and if who he protects dies, then we gain that additional information come his flip should he be telling the truth)

There seems to be support for this wagon lingering but nobody wants to take that first step.

unvote, vote: toomai

Somebody actually did this, we saw how quickly the acfan wagon grew, so why from the others with that suspicion is the reason for not voting not enough time?

I believe this vote to actually be town motivated

Toomai is actually probably town

-J

What changed in the space between you calling him very scummy and ending the same post with this?

Anyway votecounts and deadline and needing time for him to claim as well tell me I need to vote my vote

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NicCage

[Cheery Pie]

[

nails in the coffin for ac1983

]

It's too much to ignore, which spells disaster for the the WIFOMy protection in ac1983's previous lackluster posts. I've been tipped over to voting him, despite the other objections, there's too much going for this lynch.

VOTE: ac1983fan

[Cheery Pie]

ac is almost for sure town. Indiviudally he is one of my stronger town reads just by behavior.

Oh...? Any particular behaviour beyond what you described in that very post? I'd describe the rest of his behaviour - like many other players - as questionable towards either alignment.

Assuming he is town, chances are really really good that at least of of CP/GCBC are scum, regardless of NC alignment.

Do these chances invent themselves?

About half the time ive ended up pushing on a PR-claim wagon that was town ive been scum, you don't do that without excellent reasoning. "He isn't doing self preservation" is not excellent reasoning.

I don't know what that first sentence is on about? Other than looking like an attempt to give yourself town points, it strikes me as a weak statement.

I would rather lynch him claimless than lynch ac.

Yes, I agree with this and have made it clear that Varsoon or NC were preferable alternatives to ac1983. But I'm not going to defend ac1983 for no good reason, the only things I've defended are elements around his wagon and the PR claim. What bothers me is none of his behaviour raises any clear cut town stamps, I'm not sure where you're getting this from. As soon as you try to find reasons for him doing one thing and not the other, then you're only looking for answers to an open-ended question "is ac1983 town or scum?" to which the answer isn't clear cut.

I've leant town on him for a considerable time, and have let the last hours of the Day trickle by witnessing minimal activity while ac1983 still remained a nose in front of the NC wagon. I want to see a lynch rather than a no lynch. That's where my vote switch has come from. There are plenty of reasons out there for lynching ac1983, I still favour NC over him, but again that wasn't what appeared to be the choice on the table. It feels like you've ninja'd your way in to make a few town points and stated facts that simply aren't there.

Regardless, if it's NC for today then fine. Let's lynch NC. But as long as it's

someone

.

VOTE: NicCage

Consider this my intent to hammer NC in 3 hours.

Call me batty, but I don't know how you hammer someone who

still

isn't at L-1...?

[Cheery Pie]

He's still not at L-1...

[Cheery Pie]

@Hapa

Why are you speaking for Jake now? I didn't miss squat...

[...] I'd describe the rest of his behaviour - like many other players - as questionable towards either alignment. [...] What bothers me is none of his behaviour raises any clear cut town stamps, I'm not sure where you're getting this from. As soon as you try to find reasons for him doing one thing and not the other, then you're only looking for answers to an open-ended question "is ac1983 town or scum?" to which the answer isn't clear cut.

And Jake voted NC immediately after the last VC... AND he's

still

not at L-1.

(I can count right? Or am I insane?)

[Cheery Pie]

Strictly speaking Dessx's UNVOTE on NC didn't follow voting protocol, so I'm not quite sure why it was validated in the last VC.

I counted it as an unvote given the clear intent.

2. Anything that looks likes a vote may be counted as a vote at my discretion.

[Cheery Pie]

I'm also ok with an AC lynch cause fuck him if he's actually town. Really fuck both of them IMO.

What happened to the never lynching a day-1 PR claim policy?

[Cheery Pie]

This is not the time for pointless fights right now Cheery. Will you be here for this discussion or not?

It's always time to ask about inconsistencies, you never know when you might end up dead.
I'll most likely be online (just a matter of whether I'm online on this account), but I'm not in favour of bringing another wagon to lynch point.

I mean, I'd lynch Jake, but I don't feel that strongly about any other players other than ac and scott. Hi Cheery Pie, what do you think of my Jake case?

Jake is leaning scum to me already, your case hasn't changed any of that.

[Cheery Pie]

When on earth were you leaning scum on Jake? Since when?

Also, if you were leaning scum on Jake, you were you following him on the NC wagon? What?

Since after Varsoon voted him and I felt that it was a possible bus.
The NC vote came back because I felt he was scummier than acfan and Varsoon wasn't getting lynched.

[Cheery Pie]

going back through cheery's iso to see when he first says I am a scum read (haven't finished yet) but I missed this and wanted to respond to it

I don't recall seeing this stance in monopoly mafia. (even before Lurker slipped)
You had no troubles lynching a claimed cop in lylo there either.

1. when lurker claimed people actually started un-voting him so why would I have brought it up? If people were still voting him and more started to vote him, I would have said something. After he slipped, I couldn't vote and he pretty much admitted he was scum so this is a moot point. Why bring it up when this scenario is COMPLETELY different?

2. did you seriously mention the 2nd part? first, lylo is NOT the same thing as day 1 and there were a lot of claimed PRs, some OMG at least 1 of the claimed PRs was lying. Out of the claimed PRs he was the most scummiest to me. The fact that you are even mentioning that in relation to a day 1 PR claim is just plain wrong.

1. You weren't voting on before/after - but you were questioning people for removing their votes after his claim.
2. At the time I hadn't read further down the page and seen you mention day 1, but you wanted to vote him earlier than lylo as well. I didn't have more day 1 data from you, but that's the case.

I'm also ok with an AC lynch cause fuck him if he's actually town. Really fuck both of them IMO.

What happened to the never lynching a day-1 PR claim policy?

his last post was essentially a big FUCK YOU to everyone because he is trying to start a new wagon that nobody else is voting. he is essentially trying to get town to NL

also if you go back at look at his post 400, he had slight scum reads on Dyslexia & HP leaves, yet does nothing to question them, he only mentions Dyslexia's name one time after 400, and it wasn't to question him, it was to say he previously asked him some questions. As for HP, he never mentions him at all except for post 400.

-J

Therefore Dashie would have the same problem with you as she did in regards to Pie and GC doing almost that same thing.

Also for the people that seemingly can't read - my scum read on Jake.

Go to the last VC and what is happening. Varsoon is getting ran up against NC. What is the reaction from Varsoon? Attack a player who is voting NC. That accomplishes absolutely nothing from a scum perspective and instead is more of throwing rocks at a hornet nest. Not only is he making a vote that keeps him closer to a lynch as the leading wagon while easily being able to vote NC, but it also stands the chance of angering a player off the wagon who is defending him.

That doesn't explain why he was town beforehand that point.

and I still disagree, simply because that vote and reasons given looks to me like weak distancing and thus that he's moved somewhere else won't change my mind.

Which therefore means I'm now reading you slightly scummy, and the fact you've explained some differences doesn't mean much to me. (probably because my own hydra isn't working seamlessly either, by which I'm waiting for Pie to see if it also looks that way to him or if I'm just way too annoyed about the constant "I'm town" comments coming from Varsoon that I've started tunneling.

[Cheery Pie]

Current thoughts on Varsoon?

And wait. You thought that Jake was bussing his "teammate" that hardcore from the outset of Day 1? That's like...

Varsoon's still a scum read.

and it was Varsoon bussing Jake. (or at least distancing as there was no chance the wagon would actually take off)

What are Cheery Pie's individual personas? Also, which half is posting right now?

Cheery.

lol jake

[Cheery Pie]

1. You weren't voting on before/after - but you were questioning people for removing their votes after his claim.
2. At the time I hadn't read further down the page and seen you mention day 1, but you wanted to vote him earlier than lylo as well. I didn't have more day 1 data from you, but that's the case.

1. misrep

Explain your actions there then, because that's clearly what I am seeing when checking that game.

[Cheery Pie]

It can't be a full 180 if he never actually had a scum read there.

anyway on with this game, as I said before, I'm not in support of a flash wagon happening on anyone, so can we hurry up and lynch NC?

[Cheery Pie]

It can't be a full 180 if he never actually had a scum read there.

anyway on with this game, as I said before, I'm not in support of a flash wagon happening on anyone, so can we hurry up and lynch NC?

Why do you want to lynch someone that's acting Obvtown in the last few hours?

Because it's seriously still the only lynch that can happen.
I'd also settle for acfan, but I consider flash wagons to be going for luck.

A confirmed town from a wagon that has built up all day is better than one that came in the last 10 hours of a day - simply because there are more reactions to deal with.

Playing obvtown when you're nearly lynched is always a bad choice.

We can talk about lynching different people, but unless someone actually commits a vote, it's just not going to happen, and even then nothing is going to change - see the Toomai and Scott wagons from last time we were this close to deadline.

[Cheery Pie]

Wat.

You mean, the other guy that hp mentioned?

Those two reasons just feel weak, I don't know why you think they're as strong as you do/did. This is why I would expect you to try to get more out of me, the person you're trying to tunnel, to make sure you had the wrong person. The certainty that these reasons gave you to continue to push my lynch does not look town motivated.

hp never mentioned toomai...

Spoiler:

post_id=4925590 time=1367597264 user_id=10128]/confirm

post_id=4926404 time=1367613228 user_id=10128]VOTE: GoodCopBadCop because I don't like random votes

post_id=4928380 time=1367671065 user_id=10128]

post_id=4926404 time=1367613228 user_id=10128]VOTE: GoodCopBadCop because I don't like random votes

##Vote hp [leaves]

'Cause you don't like random votes yet are posting a random vote in the random voting stage... wat.

Nope, I voted for the person who random voted because I don't like random votes. Bulletproof logic if you ask me.

post_id=4928383 time=1367671240 user_id=10128]Also I'm calling it, everyone after me on the Cop wagon is scum.

post_id=4928384 time=1367671342 user_id=10128]So let's start by lynching Cage.

VOTE: NicCage

#34 is calling Toomai, Nic and Scott scum.

[Cheery Pie]

VOTE: ac1938fan

We don't have enough people to lynch someone w/out votes.

I don't want to lynch NC given his recent behavior.

Let's kill the guy that's displayed he doesn't give a shit about the game and cross our fingers.

Let me get this straight, out of two wagons in which both players have felt scummy at various points throughout the day you prefer a claimed PR lynch over a claimed VT???

That is straight up BAD.

NicCage suddenly puts effort into the thread

after

he has been a large wagon for the majority of the Day and finally gets pushed to L-1 and this is supposed to mean "holy shit total confirmed townie here *unvote*"??? It means jack without a flip. Same goes for ac1983fan. The real crux of it is a case of VT claim vs PR claim, there haven't been any CC's, it's Day 1 so we got no other info to go on. So your choice baffles me, as do the last dozen or so of your posts.

[Cheery Pie]

I prefer possible scum over VT, yes.

Sigh. No sense in arguing with scum I suppose.

Colour me unimpressed.

Your overwhelming or perhaps deliberate ignorance of what I said is astounding. Your vote is absolute derp and makes zero sense in the scheme of things. You're not playing pro-town. You're marching around aggressively calling people town or scum as you please and changing your stance three posts later. Trawling through your ISO is beginning to look like wading knee-deep through inconsistent accusations.

And again, just to make it clear to everyone else. NC is not confirmed town, ac1983 is not confirmed town. These two wagons are about a PR claim vs a VT claim. My other head has already made it apparent that we're against any quick lynch shenanigans on any other target. That kind of play can lead to all sorts of drama.

In other words, save your derp voting for tomorrow Hapa and actually do something that matters. Like seeing a lynch go through today.

[Cheery Pie]

VOTE: Cheery Pie

I'd like to have a little conversation with you about the last week of this game. What are your scumreads? Looking over your filter, all of the effort you put into this game is into criticizing the actions and logic of other players, while putting nothing on the table yourself.

Which ones do you want to talk about. My scumreads are still all in this thread.
I think the only one that I haven't talked about is Toomai, and I doubt that one is the case now.

I'm all for a Cheery, Toomai, or Scott lynch.

I'll put down for

Vote: Cheery Pie

Would you like to expand on why for any of these?

[Cheery Pie]

Working on a large-ish post that'll put some current reads out there clearly and share whatever else is on our minds.

Just got to make sure both heads are pulling in the same direction.

[Cheery Pie]

Kuribo invited me to the neighborhood night 1. Our QT was daytalk enabled so scum most likely also have daytalk.

- GC

Did you get any information from it, or did it only become apparent after his death?

I've forgotten a lot of what was happening in this game, so lemme review it again.

Maybe if you actually paid attention to it yesterday instead of trying to make truth via repetition. I still don't believe it btw, and you now announcing you've forgotten everything doesn't help.

@hap - With that kill acfan is very likely scum. Im happy lynching him today.

Its going to be WIFOM but you should follow here too. Basically the kill is a massive tell. Look who the likely kills would be: Zef and hap. Now approach this from a standpoint of town-acfan. Who is going to die (most likely) assuming both town? Its very clearly Zef. That is a quiet quiet spot that has a loud player replacing in and everypony thinks is town. aka a threat.

On the other hoof, why would scum kill Hap if acfan was town? They wouldn't. Pure and simple they wouldn't because it would likely end with a mislynch of acfan. Scum would be more than happy to keep a prob-town who wants a PR dead alive.

By that logic, acfan cant be town because the "protect" he would have made as town would have been Zef. While im sure he is going to run in and claim that he protected the player who wanted him dead or something... but it doesn't make any sense.

The kill seems to line up with acfan being scum and just making that side kill without really thinking about who he would protect as town. Sometimes the best way to catch scum who has claimed a role (outside of trumping it with role information - which if it exists here shouldn't be said) is to compare it to what they should be doing in that situation. acfan I don't think approached this as he would town (outside of him about to claim "oh I got RBed" or something like that).

Varsoon and Hap are town still though. Pretty sure of that one.

Your first part is correct that your analysis there is wifom. The whole who will he protect thing is with that in any direction.

and the fact Zef's town read from everyone were based on a page 3 post means nothing when at least one scum (Varsoon) isn't paying attention to the thread anyway.
Dessx also coming and leaving the slot didn't help that read stay with me.

@ Cheery

Which ones do you want to talk about. My scumreads are still all in this thread.
I think the only one that I haven't talked about is Toomai, and I doubt that one is the case now.

Let's start with this: who would you like to see hang today?

Also, does the NC flip inform/change your opinions on anything?

I would like to see one of Varsoon/Jake hang today, would actually like both, but I know we don't have a double lynch.

Nic's flip hasn't really changed anything that hadn't be discussed before he had been lynched. Maybe his Jake case increased my scum-read of that slot unconsciously, but thinking about stuff during the night, RBD's want to flash lynch (a system that could be used to try and out other powers roles of more value that a 1-shot doc) did a lot of that itself.

I wish I could get GCBC's input right now, but /shrug.

Vote: ACFAN

The flip'll be telling.

In what way is the flip telling? That an already obvtown becomes confirmed, or doesn't?
What basis is that for a lynch when you've claimed to not be aware of what is happening around you/forgetting whatever?

Frankly, I don't know how to breadcrumb. I've never tried it, never thought of how to tried it. Moreover, I called Hap obv!town, and I didn't want to use my ability on someone I thought was scum...I just wanted to confirm hap's alignment; that way in the event of my lynch today (which I was expecting to happen anyway) that would leave you guys with a confirmed town.

Why did you want a obvtown confirmed? Isn't he already enough of a kill threat?


--
VOTE: Jake from Rainbowdash

[Cheery Pie]

I saw that vote coming a mike away, but a question for you

RBD's want to flash lynch (a system that could be used to try and out other powers roles of more value that a 1-shot doc) did a lot of that itself.

I feel this is kind of a misrep, all dashie did was ask if there were enough people to quick lynch someone. Menawhile, others (scott, hap) ACTUALLY tried to get a new wagon going.

this would be the 2nd time you have misrepped/intentionally lied this game

AC is scum, this is the right lynch. anyone not on the wagon gets looked at hard day 3.

you want to keeo the game open for another week? go right ahead, but AC will be lynched today.

That doesn't change what I believe her motivation behind asking it was.

Yes Scott/hap/Varsoon did vote elsewhere, but the whole idea was still started by RBD.

I was actually suspicious of hapa for it as well, but he's been confirmed town by acfan.

and surprise for you as well - I'm not going to vote him today as the weak cop thing does seem like something he'd do.

[Cheery Pie]

I'm talking about after NC's claim. Though I did seem to have skipped 639, but since Hap is obvtown besides paranoia, I don't consider that as counting.

[Cheery Pie]

Just checked on my phone, cp, hap was talking about another wagon and you said you were not interested in one. Later you said that you were still against another wagon and I agreed with you with the exception of you cause you lied about the other game we played and townies should not lie, thus you are scum.
Others iirc, we're talking about lynching someone else. The idea was never brought up by dashie or myself first. I actually disagreed with a counter wagon at all (except for you)

Cherry picking is scummy, you either suspect EVERONE who suggested or actually TRIED to start a wagon, or you suspect nobody.

1 person asking if people would consider a wagon is not anywhere as close to scummy as someone who takes action to get one going.

Off the top of my head, Hap & SB actually tried to get new wagons going. Not dashie or myself.

There's different methods to go about doing it, and Dashie's was a leave it to town approach and didn't actually act on it.

As I believe I said earlier on SB's wagon start attempt on Toomai yesterday, actually voting comes across as town to me. Backsiding the possibly of wanting to do it, doesn't.

Last thing, and CD knows me and can't possibly call this scummy as I did it in a game with him.

I'll go 1 for 1.

If AC flips town, lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure

I

am.

Dashie will yell at me, but that's how I roll

I will call you telling me I can't call it scummy scummy though.

So you're buddies with him then? I'll have to see if that fits with Varsoon.

[Cheery Pie]

@CP

Did you get any information from it, or did it only become apparent after his death?

What do you mean?
He invited me into a daytalk enabled QT (neighborhood), that's all.

I was just wondering if he had previous said anything in it. (the fact you got the invitation when he died is interesting.)

@ Cheery

I was actually suspicious of hapa for it as well, but he's been confirmed town by acfan.

Why are you assuming ac1983fan is town? You clearly don't have a town-read on the guy.

Hell, you

question

ac1983fan about his claim in the post right before:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4981010

Why did you want a obvtown confirmed? Isn't he already enough of a kill threat?

Where I come from, we call these things "scumslips."

He's spending more time criticizing people's logic than actually scum-hunting. Furthermore, his vote-post on Jake is weak as fuck. Finally, the above makes no sense from a town perspective. He basically assumes in his logic that ac1983fan is town, yet is treating AC like a scum-candidate.

You got a problem with me questioning my town reads?
I only know my own alignment, so of course everyone else is still in the mix of stuff whether I'm reading them town or not.

Yes I assumed he was telling the truth, but still wanted more clarity about why he choose that action and this made you confirmed town in my mind along with your play before the acfan wagon.

Re: PonyJake claim, that claim makes sense for some of your actions, but please don't breadcrumb-wifom your results again, they just made you look worse.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Varsoon

I'm not voting acfan quite yet since I'm waiting on Pie to remember to do his post.

[Cheery Pie]

or he's already hammered, that's also a good reason for me to not be doing it.

I'll try to make Pie do stuff during the night.

[Cheery Pie]

Why would you interrogate a town read?

Makes no sense

Because clarity is still required from whoever and my reads are capable of being wrong, the answer may or may not have reduced the town read, but when I've identified you and him as not being on the same team (my question about that being the case was sarcasm) and you as my prime suspect, then the townread on AC fan does possibly go higher than it otherwise might, but as I said, I wanted some clarity, which then if they preform their part correctly will allow town reads to then spread towniness amongst other people who may not neccassary have seen them as town before.
aka townhunting.

@ Cp, you seriously suggest I should have just came out and full claimed my results to start the day? Lol c'mon dude you aren't that bad of a player.

You absolutely breadcrumb your results. When people started thinking the change of his claim made him town, I had to get aggressive. Granted I went too far.

I really wish I had a 1 shot hider role too, oh well.

Tomorrow lynch CP, next lynch HP. If game isn't over lynch hap and after that you are on your own.

No waiting until after he claimed his action was the correct choice (because otherwise he'd know to claim rbed/stronged), but crumbing it in a NK analysis wifom post was a bad idea.

You've seen me bus partners in lylo, what makes you think I'd be afraid or whatever to bus here?

anyway if you lynch me tomorrow, Jake will probably be the next dead after that.

[Cheery Pie]

Okay, pony part here and here is where we are at

1) We don't have any result for you, obviously that means we got blocked/are one shot. Will still let scum guess which.

Wouldn't scum presumably already know if you were blocked or not? (I guess they can won't know if it was a useful block - but they'd still know?)

Unless there's a town JK.

I think the one thing that vindicates Dyslexicon right now is that he was the quickest person to act on the ac1983fan wagon when it first came up on Day 1.

He was also the person that originally brought acfan to your attention, I think it's fairly safe Dyslexicon is town.

I'd feel A LOT more comfortable if I could know Jake's alignment

I can tell you our alignemnt


we are town

better now?

-J

Not with me, since I had this whole argument about Varsoon day 1.

So, then, who is scum?

Fairly sure it's still you, even though you have managed to stop trying to cause truth my repetition now.

vote: Cheery Pie

This is how I was feeling before the whole,
"Wait, am I being tricked" moment.

So what caused those feelings then?

---

Now that Jake's claimed, and I'm fairly sure he wouldn't have gone that heavy bussing when in reality it was only me & Pie really suspecting him and I'm therefore reading him town, I feel the kuribo kill may be pointing towards HP or Scott as people that may have known him in his prime.
GCBC isn't out of the woodwork either.

But it's probably also something that I'm looked at why Toomai has been scumread, even by me, and I think the whole thing is nothing.

[Cheery Pie]

panics, hapa still going on about me apparently doing nothing and other useless statements of no worth or proof that I'm this

obvscum

.

Questioning your town-reads is fine. However when it comes at the expense of questioning your scumreads, we have problems. You can't scum-hunt by questioning a small portion of people you find town.

i.e. Varsoon. You're questioning your town-reads more than the guy you're actually voting. Reaaaaallllyyyy?

My vote was on Jake thankyou very much. (because the Varsoon one never counted)

But actually look at all my posts yesterday, and you'll turn out to be wrong in that regard as well. Like right about my question to acfan

Maybe I'm not repeating my unanswered questions to him enough, but it's hard to continue to ask questions when they don't actually answer.

And this is the problem. You

assumed

he was telling the truth. Which is a problem, given that I can't find a single place in your filter where you call him a town-read.

I thought people here were capable of putting 2 and 2 together, apparently not.

but sorry for giving someone the benefit of the doubt?

and your other question isn't getting a response, but with how last night turned out, I'm fairly sure it's now fact.

[Cheery Pie]

Like I wouldn't mind you giving him the "benefit of the doubt" if there was a justification for it

anywhere

in your filter. Even an

implied

justification would do. But there's nothing.

I thought I did post it somewhere, but must have just left it in the hydra qt, doesn't matter as whether or not it is shown to you, I can't prove it otherwise.

(but it was basically how I've seen him play in other games, the quickwagon against him and that he was obviously not scum with Jake who I was scumreading at the time)

and I did go through more than just he one I've played with him at a skim and didn't really see the whole anti-town thing being completely different from his normal mindset, basically similar.

[Cheery Pie]

@ Cheery

The crux of my suspicions against you are two things right now:
1) Your reaction to the initial ac1983fan wagon.
2) Your suspicion on Varsoon.

1) Righto, well you would be suspicious of my reaction since it didn't coincide with your own. I see nothing wrong with reacting to the speed of a wagon and being worried by it.
2) I still feel there's plenty to be suspicious about. You don't agree? Fine. Besides I've (pieceofpecanpie) been voted early game by ac1983 before when we were scum just, you know, putting it out there that scum

can

vote each other. I could turn that "your [..] suspicions seem really forced" line back on you in regards to me. Since you first started raising your "scum, scum" voice at me it's felt like you've just been filling in the blanks as to why I am scum. Reads like confirmation bias.

[Cheery Pie]

I think Scott's interpretation is good. Looks like HP just slipped.

VOTE: hp leaves

[Cheery Pie]

Sure scum can bus teammates and vote teammates. However you ignore the specific circumstances of AC's vote on Varsoon. If you truly look at his suspicions on Varsoon and the timing of them, I have a hard time believing you could reach any conclusion except for that Varsoon is town.

Consider the following:
1) AC made a *huge* push on Varsoon the second Varsoon's wagon kicked off.
2) AC explicitly stated that he was voting Varsoon NOT because he thought Varsoon was scum, but because he thought Varsoon was "anti-town." Scum simply don't bus each other in this manner.

This is a

hard

push?

Holy shit.
VOTE: Varsoon
I'm sorry I have 0 patience for this.

When he was also conveniently avoiding the NicCage/Toomai wagons, I think not.

Scum bus in all sorts of weird circumstances and doing it for weak reasons such as anti-town play and being read as scum seems perfectly fine distancing thing to me. It probably wouldn't get ac towncred if Varsoon was lynched - but it is certainly helping Varsoon now.

And on second thought, this post by Cheery is just... ugh. Assumes AC is town and his claim is legit, and seems open to the possibility of voting him, but isn't just because he's waiting for Pie to post.

You'll notice that the post you quoted was after Jake's outing as tracker - therefore catching ac in a lie and proving beyond doubt that he was scum - my assumption of acfan being town was therefore replaced with the assumption that Jake was telling the truth. (because if not he'd die the next day).
Waiting for Pie was that he'd promised a post ~2 days beforehand, and I don't want to be running this hydra mostly solo. (as I think that promise to post was the only thing he posted day 2 and as he is the only person I know that shares my alignment (since it's a hydra and all), I like him posting)

post_id=4993102 time=1369871723 user_id=10128]

So dashie just made a good point. If his knife whatever can find doc, why did he not confirm the claim doc?

Because it makes no sense at all? If he's a doctor, then he has a knife and I get a positive result. If he's mafia, then he has a knife and I get a positive result. Would you investigate a miller?

If you're a gunsmith, then yes you investigate the miller.
(else you get lynched by DGB)

---

Anyway since we're apparently mass claiming and I'm been popcorned, I get to answer hapa's last question from yesterday.

The doctor is in da house.

Protected GCBC night 1 on the basis we needed more experienced people alive in the town. (and at that stage we had Jake as a scumread). Though we also almost went hapa due to him being obvtowny.
- Failed to notice that Kuribo replaced in when looking at the NicCage flip, and noticed later when checking how long was left in the night. Decided to sleep on it and see if Pie agreed with changing who the protect was on - mod started the day 7 hours early and the protect was suck on GCBC - but with hp's claim to also kill kuribo, protecting him there wouldn't have changed the result.
Protected Jake night 2 and if you hadn't made me claim would likely have continued to do so. (hence the if I'm lynched - Jake dies comment)

When acfan claimed 1-shot doc, we went with assuming the worse and there being multiple killers so choose not to counterclaim as that was a possibility and felt it was best to see what the new day brought.

anyway popcorn to

Varsoon

[Cheery Pie]

After reading through Jakedash's iso, I found they were against lynching acfan because of the claim. But when hp claimed it didn't seem like they were backing off. Also I find they seemed to argue points with hp over and over again, but it could be they are just confused with the claim. I also remember NC was suspicious of them. Not my lynch option, but I won't go with confirmed town either.

It's apparently only a day 1 thing.

At that point in the game, the competing wagons were NC and Varsoon (AC's vote put Varsoon at L-3), both of which had an even number of votes. If you're seriously suggesting to me that scum would deliberately avoid voting the confirmed town (NC) in order to bus their scum-buddy

for being anti-town rather than actually scummy

, then you either haven't read the game or you're scum.

NC was at L-2 at the time of the vote.

Scum are often afraid of putting people at L-1 - and when he'd already defended NC somewhat, him going to the town wagon would have helped him even less.

[Cheery Pie]

Hey guys, at the risk of sounding stupid I just want to say that I'm really suspicious of Rainbowjake

Jake from statefarm tends to be an irritating player as town, he is stubborn about his opinions and doesn't tend to listen to others and always sticks out like a sore thumb. As mafia, he is more willing to work with others and listen to others opinions. In this game, Jake seems to be playing as scum jake.

Rainbowdash I have seen be an amazing scum player, and her general MO is to try to take over the town with really confusing but simultaneously reassuring rhetoric that she is close to figuring out the game and will lynch the scum very soon. This also seems like scum-dash

I agree with these statements (though I haven't looked at a Jake-scum or a RBD-town game due to not having played in those)

For this reason I'm seriously considering Scott being the better lynch for today.

dashie actually thinks we should be NL because we have an even number. I don't really like NL, but my experience is lacking and I know she has suggested this before in other games I have played with her.

While I'm still alive and capable of saving someone (+/- hp's bp should that be true) - this is not an option.
maybe if it were mylo, but it's clearly not when we've only had 1 out of probably 3 allowed mislynches.

However, when I'm being accused of being roleblocked when I have no powers, I am 100% sure hp is lying. How is this scum desperation? One player I have serious scum reads on, another is completely lying about their actions...who would you go with?

Having no powers doesn't stop a roleblock action.
If he's telling the truth about his role, then he'd be telling the truth about his actions.

No. I mean "there is a knifesmith" is basically saying "there is a doctor". Im actually NOW wondering if hp is a scum SK-cop essentially that also picks up the doctor. That would be pretty awesome.

Reading the normal page - backups are allowed without the primary role, millers & godfathers are allowed without cops - so why does there have to be a doctor (for this statement, I'm obviously excluding myself and partner as the only players that can 100% confirm there is a doctor this game until the flip) because there is a knifesmith?

I don't feel like browsing through all the past games currently, but I believe it's likely that there has been a gunsmith without a cop or vig. (and if there's not (just need to remember this when I get back to collecting data of past day 1 lynches), then guess what I'm going to go attempt to design)

Guys, I've been skimming and not giving this thread as much attention as I should.
I really hope my replacement can do more for town than I've done so far.

Requesting to replace out, please.

Third scums leaving the building, maybe hp is the better lynch afterall.

[Cheery Pie]

I'm the head that's been caught up with RL business a bit too much lately, re-reading Day 3 to see where would be a good place to go today.

[Cheery Pie]

@ CP - can you please confirm you are actually Doc and not a JK?

I protected you last night again sweet-cheeks. Should I

really

have to confirm this? I need to catch up a bit here, but have you full claimed or were you only a 1-shot?

CP who did you protect?

JFR who did you track?

Scott is still a likely partner of acfan.

- GC

Protected Jake with the Rainbows. I need to check on where this Scott business comes from, we're of the opinion that Toomai is the best lynch for today.

Y'know what fine.

Vote: Toomai

I currently have no idea what I'm doing. I will be a liability to the town until I flip or do a full reread (which will take a few days). We have two mislyches to give so go ahead and use one.

AtE before there's even a vote on you?

Well okay, I'll bite and help you cue up your "mislynch".

VOTE: Tomai

[Cheery Pie]

...and by "Tomai" I mean VOTE: Toomai

[Cheery Pie]

@Cheery Pie - You said you protected me Night 1 because of my experience. Scott, Rainbow and Kuribo are all more experienced than I am. Why protect me over them?

- GC

and Hp according to his join date.

- GC

Join date wasn't the only factor, it was also deciding on a player who was experienced

and

likely to be town.

Not choosing folks like Scott, hp and Rainbow reflect our Day 1 uncertainty on those slots. Also, although Hapa was being very active and - for the most part - a townread, his posts towards the end of the Day determined that we'd prefer to protect an experienced town slot.

We almost switched to Kuribo, but the discussion over doing so was cut short when the Night ended earlier...

[Cheery Pie]

Can someone explain why CP and Jakedash is Conf.town?

Dunno why Jake described both of us as confirmed town. Although I can hazard a guess that with no kills Night 2, myself claiming to have protected Jake, then it seems likely scum targeted Jake-y and weren't successful.

There is of course a chance that scum didn't target anyone, which adds an element of uncertainty. Although that would still leave Jake and myself as likely the same alignment, and given Jake's strong turnaround on ac1983 Day 2 to see him lynched and flip scum then there's every chance that we're both being truthful.

Unless I've missed something, or there are hidden claims out there, then it's most likely we're both town. If scum no-killed Night 2 then at the very least Jake is likely town and, barring slightly far-fetched alternatives like me lying about protecting Jake in order to ride it out with him as long as possible and no actual town protective roles choosing to CC, then it's pretty likely I'm town as well.

[Cheery Pie]

Why not track Toomai/ SB?

- GC

given the flip, SB looked most likely town imo.

we tracked varsoon cause his replace out came at an awkard time when HP was getting lynched and it really looked like frustration in his scum buddies.

-J

Wait you actually had the same thought as me. That's like impossible.

My opinion changed when I noticed he was on-mass replacing out of games though.

Meh I think Toomai would be a better choice to kill then inspect me. Looks like I have no say in this matter at this point. You guys are going to lynch town.

So Toomai is also town?
(he's like the one on L-1 and everything)

GCBC practically has the hammer at this point though (assuming Toomai would switch off himself)

[Cheery Pie]

And the difference is none if one of the two of you is scum - one will either win today or tomorrow.

[Cheery Pie]

Shall I hammer Daemon? Is there more to discuss? Give us a quick nod in a direction Jake, since you've got to be ready to get trackin'.

[Cheery Pie]

I don't like that GCBC post. That's the second "I'm totally gunna die"-style wailing we've heard from the slot. It's been a slot that's irked me after Day 1, so I may just ISO and get some thoughts out about it.

Since we've plenty of time, hammer is not going to come down for a while. At least from me.

I'll do some reading of players outside Toomai and Daemon and see if the net shouldn't be widened for today after all.

At any rate, lots of time for this.

[Cheery Pie]

@Dys Did you just list all the reasons other people have called you town?

Why did you not vote ac until after hapa's case if that first attention was really wanting him gone?

[Cheery Pie]

Geez, slow down jerks, I was trying to read back through the thread.

Although GCBC has made it real easy to look past Toomai and Daemon for today. I find it highly suspicious to spend so much energy on trying to discredit Jake or finger them as scum when it's a pretty improbable position to take. Secondly, continuously adopting a stance of townishness rather than letting it speak through words and actions doesn't look good.

Both Toomai and Daemon have looked better than GCBC today.

I'm going to VOTE: GoodCopBadCop and get the heads together for some discussion about players, the Hapa kill and get back to you folks.

[Cheery Pie]

GCBC: Can you give us a bit more structured reasons why JFR is scum? I have no problem following that lead if you do in fact flip town, but right now it seems more emotional than rational.

Why only following his death reads?

I haven't seen you mention NicCage's or hapa's previous reads as worthj following, so what makes GCBC flipping town that much more interesting?

Yes, you are missing the fact that kuribo TOLD US that he neighborized us because we were a townread

Maybe you could have answer my question earlier about getting that information, because as far as I recall, you didn't answer about this information.

Which is exactly the point of me asking that question about it.

[Cheery Pie]

Pretty clear scum no killed there.

[Cheery Pie]

Possibility, who did you protect?

First I spammed quints' inbox trying to get him to bend the rules and allow me to self-protect, something along the lines of "Protect: Cheery Pie", "Please quints", "PLS quints", "QUINTS PLS", "QUINTS PLS", "QUINTS PLS" and so on...

...in the end however, I was forced to opt for Jake once again

[Cheery Pie]

Hush little baby, don't say a word,
Papa's gonna buy you a mockingbird.

And if that mockingbird won't sing,
Papa's gonna buy you a diamond ring.

VOTE: GoodCopBadCop