Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[Daemon385]

/confirm

[Daemon385]

Such an interesting start this fine day!

VOTE: Varsoon Cause I like the way Toomai thinks

[Daemon385]

Anyway I'm more concerned at this point with some of our 1-post-wonders right now, Daemon385 and Varsoon.

Is there a reason you didn't include Dyslexicon in this statement if you're investigating low content producers?

'cause he's not here. He'll have some 'splainin to do for why he's late to the party,

but absence is not alignment indicative.

But 1-post wonders

are

a cause for concern? (ie. they

do

offer an alignment indication?)

So let me see if I'm following this thought train correctly:

• i. The locomotives (posters) who pull out from the station and start puffing (posting) along are not of concern (at least, in our current thought train)
  ii. However, the locomotives who pull out from the station and travel one stop (1-post-wonder)
  are
  of concern
  iii. Yet the locomotives who sit idly in the station showing no signs of pulling out
  are not
  a concern

Correct? Well let me couple that to the following:

• i. In this game we have had a public confirmation take place. Dyslexicon's "confirmz" is there for all to see.
  ii. Yet why are his no posts of no concern to you? Why is there an arbitrary line drawn between a no-poster and a 1-post-wonder?
  iii. It's strange that you respond to the question about reasoning with an attempted reason. But
  'cause he's not here
  doesn't work, 'cause he
  was
  here.
  iv. I'm willing to see a greater implication by not including Dyslexicon in your 'concern for low content producers' post; you know something most of us don't

FoS @ hapahauli

While I have not left the building, I certainty am still here though I admit a bit more silent then I wish. Regarding my post while yes strange (and admittedly a bit noobish) as it might be and I'll admit quite noobish a one post wonder isn't something I would not necessarily say any alignment. Though I would agree with suspicious; it could be a varied amount of different reasons for just the current one post.

@ Varsoon

Don't agree with the vote.
I agree that NicCage's wagon is being pushed really fast.

Also elaborate on Dyslexicon an Daemon please. Them not jumping on wagons isn't allignment indicative - hell you yourself are suspicious on that basis no? Are there other reasons why you could "see" them as scum?

As far as people calling me scum, I find it laughable. I just haven't been very active or produced much so far, and for that, I do apologize. I should really be on V/LA this week, but I will be peeking in from time to time.

What's laughable about it? You've given us no content - what are we supposed to think?

Anyway you seem more active now, so I'll give you time to do your thing. I do expect you to contribute though, as if not for you claiming to be "busy", your behavior so far is worthy of suspicion.

As I said before the actions (or lack there of) of the one time posters so far I can see looking suspicious but not completely finger pointing since there is a lack of evidence. I am at fault for the lack of content but not at fault for a positive ID. Which I will soon correct. Anyways I myself can agree and would like to know as well can see what Hapa means in his statement regarding how that all brings just suspicion on us but as well as you as a possibility.

[Daemon385]

I've also had more free time in my other games, and I was trying a more direct approach. Notice that I'm also fairly direct in previous scum games, too.

Sometimes I just write things to see what people'll say about 'em.

That's fair it does bring up ideas and topics that were not going on in the first place. Which is a bit of what I did in my original post (though again a bit mis-launched on my part)

[Daemon385]

EBWOP again (I'm terrible at formatting, everything is spoilered below)

Spoiler:

@ Daemon

Hey man! Stick around - I need hear some from ya!

While I have not left the building, I certainty am still here though I admit a bit more silent then I wish. Regarding my post while yes strange (and admittedly a bit noobish) as it might be and I'll admit quite noobish a one post wonder isn't something I would not necessarily say any alignment. Though I would agree with suspicious; it could be a varied amount of different reasons for just the current one post.

At that point in the game (when I made my post on you), that was the only post you had. There were no other "reasons" I could have provided, though I believe my reasons were sufficient. You displayed that you weren't reading the thread, and that's not a pro-town thing to do.

As I said before the actions (or lack there of) of the one time posters so far I can see looking suspicious but not completely finger pointing since there is a lack of evidence. I am at fault for the lack of content but not at fault for a positive ID. Which I will soon correct.

Anyways I myself can agree and would like to know as well can see what Hapa means in his statement regarding how that all brings just suspicion on us but as well as you as a possibility.

I don't understand what you're asking here. Can you reword this?

Aaaaalso, you really haven't done much this game at all. Who are you suspicious of? Post some of your reads.

I was reading the forums just not as well as I should have.

Not really an important question now I think after reading over a bit more through the storm.

Also sorry for the word cluster craziness I think that was poor editing on my part I read over it again and dear god.

As for current suspicions I personally have a bit against NicCage I don't have much evidence though atm except more so of a hunch and some of his previous actions have been odd.

[Daemon385]

In other news, Daemon385 needs to put more effort into making his sentences understandable.

Sorry I've been on a bit of a strange sleep deprivation lately. Some of my previous sentences have even confused me after going back to read them.

[Daemon385]

NicCage imo looks more and more suspicious as the days go by for me. It does seem like he is hiding. Since vote count 1.3 where he had 4 votes against him he has only done 2 not very influential post.

Vote:NicCage

[Daemon385]

Miscounted like 5 but still.

[Daemon385]

I would disagree with me giving half a dick about this game. I simply have a little experience in regards to this type of mafia. The reason I am voting Nic is because he has just been wrenching at my gut for quite a while now and he is giving me no reason not to. Something doesn't register right with him. Finals or not if true is understandable, but that still doesn't keep me from being suspicious of him. I also don't trust Scott so much because in my opinion a lot what he says seems scummy.

[Daemon385]

I would disagree with me giving half a dick about this game. I simply have a little experience in regards to this type of mafia. The reason I am voting Nic is because he has just been wrenching at my gut for quite a while now and he is giving me no reason not to. Something doesn't register right with him. Finals or not if true is understandable, but that still doesn't keep me from being suspicious of him. I also don't trust Scott so much because in my opinion a lot what he says seems scummy.

And I'm the only one to draw some attention to you for sheeping and providing nothing, and conveniently I'm a new scum read! Very interesting.

It has been quite a while since you put up anything against me. If I wanted to tack you up for that for any reason, believe me I would have done it a long time ago.

[Daemon385]

Scott Brosius:

Not bad

Mainly good stuff so far.

What's good in his filter? I think it's awful (for reasons I'll explain later).

I think I can just iterate through his ISOs:

1. "Wagon time!" Didn't like it initially but it's just like any other RVS reason.
2. Made logical points.
3. Mostly found this to be null. Nothing in there that reads either way.
4. Calls out reasonless reads, gives a pair of townish reads and a pair of bad posts.
5. Parts 1 and 3 were kinda meh; part 2 was not bad.
6. I originally thought this was a null post, but your 227 made me realize otherwise -
   while Daemon did post about being suspicious of SB in 211, he didn't say it was a "new scumread"; it could have been one he held previously and didn't bring it out until then.

That is true because it wasn't a new scum read. I've had suspicion on him and NicCage and neither of which have given me much reason to think other wise.

[Daemon385]

And I'm the only one to draw some attention to you for sheeping and providing nothing, and conveniently I'm a new scum read! Very interesting.

I'm wary of these "hmmm, very interesting"-posts. Implying scumminess without saying it directly. Inviting everyone to question a certain behavior while avoid responsibility. Not a good colour on you.

@ Dyslexicon Can you tell me which "Hmm, very interesting posts? Also I feel like he has been doing that a bit throughout the game if not openly but subtle.

@Ac1983fan That is a good question but I think he evenly split up a good amount about himself and others the one phrase above that I have bolded was actually about me being suspected a bit by Scott for what he thought was me jumping on him after (from quite a while before I even casted the vote) that I had voted him as a counter for drawing attention to me. Though I've had a lot of people question that fact already as I am sure you already know. Though I guess he could also just be catching up =P

[Daemon385]

No it's fine didn't mean that to attack you just inform you all good mate.

[Daemon385]

Fair enough Dys just curious thank you!

[Daemon385]

UNVOTE: Toomai

I'm not as convinced as I was of his guilt. I looked over some of his town games, and his activity levels/posting style isn't THAT much different from here. His posting certainly makes it difficult to read his alignment, but it's not a scumtell afaik.

The three players I have clear scumreads on are

Nic Cage

,

GBGC

, and

Scott

. I'll explain a bit more in detail later, but here's the rundown:

Nic Cage

- Useless lurker showing more interest in "smoking weed" than playing the game.

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2TO5atI4rU

GBGC

- Definition of an active lurker.

Bad Cop

is plenty content to call people scum and "poke" them, but literally has 0 actual scumhunting analysis in his filter (Seriously, look at it). Most of

Good Cop

's posting/analysis has been based on him not catching up with the game. Since he's caught up, this is his only analysis:

- I agree with BC's Varsoon vote. All his posts are IIoA.
- Scott is slight town due to him having similar thoughts to me.
- Cage is slight scum at best, I don't see good enough reasons to lynch him now. There are more scummy players.

I've read the whole game now.

- GC

Hapa's case on Toomai was okay, not that good though.

Scott Brosius

- While his inactivity is somewhat standard for his normal town-play, I'm just not at all satisfied with his content. For example, there are posts where he heavily insinuates suspicion on players and doesn't do anything to follow up on them. Case in point:

I would disagree with me giving half a dick about this game. I simply have a little experience in regards to this type of mafia. The reason I am voting Nic is because he has just been wrenching at my gut for quite a while now and he is giving me no reason not to. Something doesn't register right with him. Finals or not if true is understandable, but that still doesn't keep me from being suspicious of him. I also don't trust Scott so much because in my opinion a lot what he says seems scummy.

And I'm the only one to draw some attention to you for sheeping and providing nothing, and conveniently I'm a new scum read! Very interesting.

"You're scum... INTERESTING... does anyone want to bite?"

He has a lot of these short insinuations of suspicion of various players.

On Varsoon...

Oh good a list of baseless reads. Exactly what I meant.

On Daemon...

Out of everything that has happened since your previous post to this one, THIS is the one point you make?

On Dyslexicon...

Don't like this at all. The blatant sheeping with no addition, then the following post is just empty talk about everyone agreeing? Looks like filler. Still like my Varsoon vote, but Dys is my second choice.

On Myself...

My concern is that you unvoted immediately after a single post saying I GUESS WE CAN EXPECT MORE CONTENT! Yet after I post its HEY GONNA POST MORE?! My issue is with you treating people differently for similar circumstances. So to fawn to your demands, the answer is yes.

On ac1983fan...

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

And what's more about all of this.. he just seems really... angry. He has a very critical tone, and seems like he's going after players because he's critical of their playstyle rather than because he thinks they're actually scummy. I'm unsure how much of this observation is me being potentially confirmation biased, so I'll look at it again and attempt to articulate it better.

In regards to you bit on Scott, thank you! That is what I was mentioning in my post #250, but with much more detail! I've had the similar things appear like that from him as well which again is a reason he is one of my main two scum reads right now. He hasn't proven much other reasons for me to think other wise and I honestly don't think he will. So maybe your not as biased as you think.

I'm still not sure on GCBC yet though. But I have a question for him. GCBC if there are other more "scummy" players to get instead of NicCage who are they? Would you be able to enlighten up on who you think is a bigger threat? Obviously you seem hard struck on Varsoon, but why does he seem more scummy to you then NicCage? Or anyone else for that matter? Your pointing fingers but not giving much reason if any about what.

PS. I lol'ed at the video hapa xD

[Daemon385]

Anyone who's voting Varsoon at this point is an idiot or scum.

It's clear that he doesn't care about his image, and is basically playing suicidally. You can say what you want about him playing "anti-town" (though he's actually provided quite a bit of analysis in the last few pages), but his play makes no sense from a mafia perspective. He's showing no survival instinct, and that's mega townie.

We should be lynching

Nic Cage

or

Scott

today unless someone goes about and acts even scummier.

I agree! And with the time counting down on us looks like we will have to decide what we need to. Scott seems more scummier to me then Nic now but I still believe both need to be tried. My vote still stands for now.

Also as odd as what Varsoon I don't see it as that scummy. Annoying sure but I think he is trying to pull what he can out of the people he needs. Or for other reasons, but I don't believe he is the one we need to vote off right now.

Also I still LOVE Scott's post. Again all he does is state how he isn't playing and will get back to us and hardly ever does. I applaud you sir, just applaud you. Not.

[Daemon385]

While I wait for Toomai, I decide to look over the low posters.

Dyslexion - hasn't posted since Saturday but has managed 11 posts between yesterday and today (if you are town, diaf)
AC1983 - doesn't have posts anywhere else but here so while I want him to increase his activity, he doesn't seem to be avoiding the game
Nic - Has only 1 post since his last post here, and his posts here haven't been that great. Still think he is scum.
Daemon - same as AC1983 basically
Zelfind - same as AC1983 basically
Scott - Same as AC1983

my biggest issue with AC/Daemon/zelfind/Scott is essentially lack of activity is slowing the game down. I realize not everyone can be online all day/every day but these guys really need to try and post more.

Dyslexion gets a big FOS from me, because avoiding a game has no town motivation at all. If he is town, like I said above he can go diaf.

/rant

-J

I'm honestly suprised NicCage and Scott aren't defending themselves more to be honest. Though it is true not everyone can be on all day everyday. You'd think when they do post they would give more of a reason why they should not be voted for. Also I'm working on my posts a bit more since I started this game, trying to get a bit more content and learning what I can do to make that content better.

[Daemon385]

Wow that is some solid data. Very well done on your dig Hapa. I'd like to hear from him as well to see what he has to explain, but with that kind of proof I am willing to sway my vote that way. How much longer do we have till days end?
You have the stage acfan I suggest you give your case before it is to late.

VOTE:ac1983fan

[Daemon385]

post_id=4957231 time=1368652830 user_id=10128]Actually wait. Doesn't it bother anyone that this wagon went from one vote to L-1 in a single page? Toomai's reasoning is already terrible; but daemon and dys came back from their inactivity just to hop on this bandwagon. I'm willing to bet serious $$ that at least two of them is scum.

VOTE: Toomai

1. You may be reading into that far to blindly.
2. I have been quite a bit more active as of late. I still am doing what I can to post more.

Come on man you can point fingers better then that.

[Daemon385]

I can agree that we need to all make our decisions soon since the clock is ticking. It sucks we have this limited amount of time at this point with such a claim that should be talked out more. With the time constraints though we don't have that luxury. With my past experience with mafia games (not form mafia) this situation happens a lot. Which makes the lynch both frustrating and hard. It's kind of a 50/50 shot in this case in my opinion, but with me being as skeptical as I am it is hard for me to decide either way. I'd like to see a scum get lynched in our first day, but I'd hate to be wrong and get a power role lynched instead. Given that the mafia knows whether he is scum or not and also knowing that if he isn't scum he may just be the doc. If that is the case they could either kill him off now and save some trouble later, or they could drag it out keep suspicion on him for as long as they need to. Even if it is just to stall the killing of one of there own/pointing the blame at another townie. I would say that it is not a good idea though to have a cop check him tonight if he is not lynched due to the fact that if ACfan is town then both our doc and our cop(if there is one) would then both be revealed weakening our survivability and insight. Or if he is town and the cop just doesn't say anything then we would have the problem of the still hanging suspicion over him which my still get him killed if not already. If he is scum then he has a free ticket to at least another day and the scum will surely use that to their advantage. It would be far better to have the cop search someone else in my opinion due to the pros out weighing the cons.

As for my vote I'm rattled and torn between 3 possibilities. NicCage and Scott are still on my watch list, but Hapa does make a good case against ACfan. It is just that this PR claim sticks a wrench in that. Do I trust the PR claim myself? I'm not quite sure. Not 100%.But do I want to change my vote? Not exactly. I'm going to keep my vote for now, but it may change before this day is over I need to look some things over real quick. I feel ACfan could be buying himself off with the PR ticket to live another day. Scum will do anything they can to survive.

[Daemon385]

Well, the first one was to see what distinction hp was making between Toomai and I, so that one doesn't have anything to do with me thinking Toomai was scum.

After Toomai's post voting me the first time I was suspicious of him. Like I've said, I think he's scum.

The second was to see why dys called out Toomai in 117 and then said nothing about it from then on. I was trying to see if there was a connection between the two of them.

Two quick question for you Nic:

1.Why do you feel/think Toomai is scum?
2.Do you feel like you found any connection between the two at all?

[Daemon385]

The one problem I have personally with ACfan currently that he came out with his post with all that it had and left it at that. He hasn't given any more reason for people to change their vote or anything. It is almost like he is just sitting on his role claim and hoping that it doesn't get him lynched. Now he could either be very comfy with that because he knows he is town or because he knows he is scum letting his role claim sail him into another day while we all pick away at each other. It is only speculation but I feel it is a bit odd he has nothing else seeing as he was just L-1 away from being lynched. Now that he has claimed role he is just sitting back relaxing.

[Daemon385]

I'm willing to go for a scott lynch as well, but there isn't much more time to think though. It is nearing our time to act. If enough people are with me I'll shift my vote to Scott since it doesn't look like either party going to sway on the ACfan wagon. Scott has seemed far more scummy then Cage. If he didn't hammer him maybe he wanted to keep a scum buddie alive? Though that would have to mean they are both scum. I can see scum coming out of one of them but idk if they both would flip scum. Though I feel a Scott lynch right now would be better then NicCage atm. What does everyone else think?

[Daemon385]

Clearly I was not prepared for this amount of posts.

I don't really have any idea what to think. As it stands I prefer the NC lynch over the acf one because I feel it will provide more useful information overall. If we're lucky we have a Vig that'll shoot acf and solve that question simultaneously.

SB has 0 votes right now and I don't think we should try to pile them on today, since that'll just make things more complicated should it turn out that not enough people join in.

That's true I suppose.

[Daemon385]

AND hap also gains scum points for also trying to start a new wagon after I announce we have only 18 hours until deadline.

Nic is at L-1 now, so he needs to claim ASAP, like his very next post.

Well idk in all fairness Scott is definitely in my opinion someone to watch. Out of him and NicCage I can see one of them flipping scum. Maybe or maybe not both that is a bit harder to decide. He is willing to go for the NicCage wagon if needed. I am also ready to cast my vote either way, but Nic needs to say something before it is too late. With as little time as he has it won't be long till one more person hammers in the nail.

[Daemon385]

So with the suspended deadline maybe we can get a wagon rolling on SB.

I'm not unvoting NC yet though. He's been at L-1 twice now and needs to claim.

VOTE: Toomai
This is so incredibly scummy.

- GC

Wait...what?! Why? Why is this scummy?

[Daemon385]

Is there anyway to see someones filter for Day 1?

Yeah Dessx you can just click there ISO next to there post number. Still in day one and have a few days till lynch so it gives you some time to catch up

[Daemon385]

Idk I have noticed a slight on off resistance. Sure you have been the biggest resistance on it but there has been other slight resistances. All a bit not very influential most of the time.

[Daemon385]

All 3 posts have been brought to you by BadCop

Vote: ac1983fan

because I'm not scum w/ ac and I don't want to trip myself up on a technicality and start assuming that I am scum w/ ac

-BadCop

Does this mean goodcop might still be scum with him?

VOTE: goodcopbadcop because cops cause me problems

Clearly means you'd investigate guilty.

scum found.

VOTE: NicCage

post_id=4928384 time=1367671342 user_id=10128]So let's start by lynching Cage.

VOTE: NicCage

VOTE: NicCage

I'm not convinced about ac1983 fan

his vote was definitely trying to hide in the chaos, rather than contribute to creating order and information

hes scum basically

Or maybe that was just, y'know, a random vote during the RVS?
But thank you for providing the overreaction necessary to get us out of RVS.
UNVOTE:

4 posts, 4 seperate votes on different people?

this is bullshit, all 3 of you are actively trying to reduce town's information thus the scumteam is HP, Toomai, and ac1983fan

Ridiculously terrible reasoning. Random is random; not joining wagons in the first 5 posts is beyond a null tell.

Vote: GoodCopBadCop

Voting someone because of ridiculously terrible reasoning during the RVS/ending of the RVS? it's like you've never played before

My turn to post!

Vote NC

Why me and not Toomai?

This is a really bad post to start as it doesn't actually attack any of the logic that was presented as to why its scummy, but instead tries to deflect part of what he is being called for to another as well without really giving thoughts on hp or Toom.

Yep

unvote

VOTE: zefiend

This is a pretty ugly sheep. Apart from zef being one of my stronger town read at this point, it seems like more of a runaway vote following a vocal player who was calling him scum. I would love to actually see NC try and give reason for the vote before GCBC gives one (even though they probably both are missing reasons - zef is really town which anypony should see at this point).

I probably wont always remember to sign posts (chances are I wont sign anything) but if somepony cant tell us apart... well im not sure what else to say.

GCBC should headclaim too. Its amazingly anti-town to keep that hidden.

Can anyone briefly explain what "headclaim" means and why or why not it may be ethical to ask of someone to do? This is my first game on mafiascum, and I have never heard the term anywhere else.

Sometimes that involves forcing things. Usually everything on Day 1 is forced to some extent, until it reaches the point where you can leverage *actual* suspicion on someone.

I am all for prying information from someone, but only necessarily if they do something genuinely suspicious or questionable. It seems as though you are admitting to "forcing things", albeit for the sake of generating information... so, along with the fact that you are generally being proactive in regards to activity, I will

Unvote: hapahauli

for now.

... but that vote seemed a lot to me like some

early-game RVS antics

rather than a serious vote. ...

Can I be the one to officially say it??

We are out of the RVS stage of the game, and we have been for a while.

Chalking up statements and votes to "jokes" and "antics" just keeps dragging on the notion that we are not playing seriously yet, and it provides an outlet to fall back on for bad play.

Just this mean I actually have logic with my vote on NicCage?

Well is it after his sheeping of GCBC and other lack of contest so far.

If you are talking about your first post of the game, 1) I detected sarcasm, so I believe that it was a "true" RVS-vote 2) If it wasn't sarcasm, then it certainly held no logic. Regardless, I am comfortable moving my vote there as well.

Vote: NicCage

Cheery Pie and hapahauli are both pretty town. I'm not seeing poor logic on either side of their discussion.

How can I get round to any details of the points raised when I'm still trying to wrap my head around what's actually going on?

Seems pretty simple to me: hapahauli looked for the people that weren't posting, saw the two people with 1 post, and found them to be scummy. You brought up someone who has no posts and hapahauli went either "hmm, didn't think of that, but you can't really do much to no-posters early Day 1" or "I noticed, but you can't really do much to no-posters early Day 1". That's how I see it anyway.

I'm gonna concur with the NicCage suspicion since, while Varsoon and Daemon385 made one bad post each that could be construed as RVS (if you have a really open mind), NicCage has made about three bad posts with about the same amount of content.

Vote: NicCage

(that's 5/7)

post_id=4936326 time=1367913245 user_id=10128]

@ HP

Wall-o-texts are kinda my thing =/

Anyway what do you "like" about the post - do you agree with my logic? Or do you just think it's a "townie" post?

Also, I still want an answer to this:

post_id=4932314 time=1367795256 user_id=10128]

Well, first, he took Cop's second RVS vote too seriously (unless Cop was also serious, which I doubt).

Secondly, Cop wagon was evidently a wagon I didn't like and Toomai was on it. Thirdly, his overall play strikes me as overly cautious. I can't say he's the best good lynch for today, but he's worth going after tomorrow. And also today.

Those are reasonable points, but why didn't you bring them up before? You say he's worth pressuring today, yet idly stating he's suspicious twice, then not stating your rationale until I prod you about it isn't a very effective way of "going after" someone.

The motivation for that post was coming from the right place.

To answer that, I wanted to mess with him a bit. Also, my vote was on NicCage and reasons without a vote is even worse than a vote without reasons.

Understand where you're coming from, Hapa.

You just seem way too eager to play town.

I don't like this post.

Please note that it is NOT a fallacy to claim somebody is trying to "appear" protown

Which is what he was going for (or at least what I think it is)

Also why am I not voting you yet? You've earned yourself a seat above Cage. This is yours until NicCage comes back and claims it from you.

VOTE: Toomai

I'm sorry I haven't been contributing more. Finals are proving hell. With such vocal townish play from Hapa there's gonna be mostly baaaaa anyways.
I strongly agree with Zef's post #168 where he agrees with some other players. Sheepasheep.
VOTE: NC

NicCage imo looks more and more suspicious as the days go by for me. It does seem like he is hiding. Since vote count 1.3 where he had 4 votes against him he has only done 2 not very influential post.

Vote:NicCage

I mean honestly GC, have you looked at your partner's posting at all? Whatever IIoA means, it must apply to BC as well.

I don't know if either of can actually be described as having information.

Vasroon is definitely appealing to emotions though.

I am town.

UNVOTE: , VOTE: Varsoon

post_id=4951589 time=1368446843 user_id=10128]CHOO CHOO

VOTE: NicCage

Why does it matter if there's a few days left?

Eh I guess you're right. We do kind of need enough time for him to claim.

Vote: NicCage

[L-1]

unvote for a second

ok, I thought i had seen a weird toom/SB connection but after that response and going back and looking in detail, I mis-read.

Vote: Nic

back to L-1

I love you Dyslexicon. Thank you for making me look at this guy again.

ac1983fan

is scum. No doubt about it.

I love you too, my dove. *blush*

I totally agree ac19 looks like scum, especially in light of his meta. He has seemed dodgy to me the whole game. His self proclaimed "conservativeness" does not add up to his play, and him stating being wary of me, but do nothing but a totally fail-jump on one of my posts. This is good enough for a vote from me, and then we don't have to worry about NC being lynched (although he might not be town either).

VOTE: ac1983fan

Wow that is some solid data. Very well done on your dig Hapa. I'd like to hear from him as well to see what he has to explain, but with that kind of proof I am willing to sway my vote that way. How much longer do we have till days end?
You have the stage acfan I suggest you give your case before it is to late.

VOTE:ac1983fan

Well I guess I'll go back to where I was then.

Vote: NicCage

That said, 1-Shot Doctor seems like a really weird claim to me. It's weak and unusual enough that it doesn't look like something that would be faked, but in the same way it's far easier to explain why he's not being killed (since if the claim is true the Mafia probably would like to keep him around for a while to keep suspicion high, as opposed to a full Doctor claim which would make everyone expect instant death).

post_id=4958857 time=1368718115 user_id=10128]Well I'm all for NC or Toomai now so if we're not lynching Toomai,

VOTE: NC

@acfan

- Use your ability tonight.
---

VOTE: Cage
This is a good lynch. Also, we need lynch RIGT NOW. The deadline is in a few hours.

All this "don't lynch the PR" stuff

does not apply here.

It applies to normal doctor/cop claims, but not this one. In the case of a 1-shot claim, we lynch the guy if we think he's scum. End of story.

What makes a 1-shot claim all that different from a full claim? It's still a PR claim, and since we don't actually know what the setup is in this game, limited shot powers may actually be all we have.

You voting Varsoon implies that you think he's the

best

candidate availible. If he's not the best candidate in your mind, who is? Place your vote on that person.

Out of the people who have wagons, yes Varsoon is the best option. (for information that may be confusing you, some responses/conversations have changed which hydra head is speaking, I think Pie is less clear on Varsoon than I am)

I don't like this attitude. I feel like you've been talking around things and doing everything in your power not to make a vote-committment. Your plan here is essentially to wait and see, and give the town your "stamp of approval" by hammering someone. This is unacceptable when we have 24 hours left in the day. We need to be discussing reads, not doing hwat you are proposing.

I didn't like your attidtude about how acfan is scumscumscumscum.

There was still hope that other people would see the sense in Varsoon, but I guess there isn't now that Scott has moved off. Yes I haven't argued that much about it, but then I'd be hypocritical of my hatred towards people trying to lead the town around.

The problem is, I can't find any compelling reason for why the policy applies in the case of this current claim (1-shot doctor).
1) It won't be possible to verify his claim later, and outing a cop to do so is not a good long-term play.
2) The "suboptimal" decisions that scum could make here (NK'ing AC for example) are very unrealistic. If scum have a roleblocker, they can nullify his role without killing him. Secondly, I don't think it's realistic at all for scum to NK ACfan (if he's town) because he would be an almost sure-fire lynch for D2.

If he is the only protective role, then unless he is scum sacrificing a night, then it is possible to verify without resorting to a cop. (it would probably require massclaim though)
If he is a doctor, he has a protect in action tonight, scum may therefore avoid the optimal kill killing it would be protected. We do not know if they have a roleblocker or not. (and if who he protects dies, then we gain that additional information come his flip should he be telling the truth)

There seems to be support for this wagon lingering but nobody wants to take that first step.

unvote, vote: toomai

Somebody actually did this, we saw how quickly the acfan wagon grew, so why from the others with that suspicion is the reason for not voting not enough time?

I believe this vote to actually be town motivated

Toomai is actually probably town

-J

What changed in the space between you calling him very scummy and ending the same post with this?

Anyway votecounts and deadline and needing time for him to claim as well tell me I need to vote my vote

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NicCage

@Hapa - The fact that your case is largely meta (which according to acfan is around 4 years old).
- That the waggon grew really fast (not that convinced by this though).

Toomai prob won't get lynched today.
VOTE: NC

UNVOTE:

[Daemon385]

There you are Jack from Rainbowdash there is everyone vote to unvote on and off NicCage. If it just has unvote or they just look like they voted it was them doing so off or on to NicCage. Cherry seems to be the very first person to ever have voted him up and then it has gone kinda up and down through out the game.

[Daemon385]

My bad xD Jake lol

[Daemon385]

It is honestly better to just ask the question instead of asking to ask the question. Your just being redundant doing that. Seriously though please ask any questions you have.

[Daemon385]

Wait never mind...reading two different things got mixed up my bad.

[Daemon385]

I'm back from a busy day and catching up to what I missed. Now that I see a lot from NicCage I actually kind of like what he has put up. I'm starting to not want to lynch him myself he seems more townie, but we do need to do something before the time runs out. My vote is ready. I will vote Nic if need be idk if we can start a different wagon at this point.

[Daemon385]

I would perfer a Scott vote my personal self just because I still feel he is the more scummier person. Let me check the time real quick. I'm about to drop my vote unless we have any other reason to rethink anything right now

[Daemon385]

There are still a few hours left

[Daemon385]

I'll stay online and constantly refreshing while I guess we all talk this out in the time we do have to decide all this. Idk myself about ACfan on whether his PR is real or not I still have back and forth skepticism on that, but again Scott is an ok lynch with me.

[Daemon385]

So how many possible voters do we have here online so far? 4-5?

[Daemon385]

Idk I'm still a bit confused on the Varsoon van to be honest. I think I may need a recap on why so many people want to vote him so badly

[Daemon385]

Right now the people I'm really looking at as scum or possible scum are as listed from most scummiest to least.

1.Scott I've mentioned through out most of the game how I feel he is scummy. At one point I felt NicCage was more of a need to lynch then him but it is more of a gut feeling for Nic then it is Scott. I feel he has been scummy and careless with what happens with the town. Nor do I feel he has made much of an effort to be town.

2. NicCage. Now that he has kind of given me more of a reason to believe he may be town it helps his case a bit with me but something still kind of bothers me with him but I am not quite sure yet. He is more of a gut.

3.GoodCopBadCop. While I feel he has been aggressive with some topics to get information I feel there may be something behind what these two are working on. I feel the aggression is a bit less townie and more for themselves. I could just be iffy on the issue but I feel like GoodCopBadCop has been kind of working on their own. And following when it feels convenient. But do feel that they may be town. Or at least I want to think they are.

4.Hapahauli. Now this is much more of me being a skeptic. Now it is good you are the most vocal player in the game and trying to get somewhere. I do think you are town, but I can see how doing all that you have will keep you alive if you were part of the scum. Which would help you turn the tables more to your whim to achieve your goal. You do have a good deal of support I've noticed through the game which can make you dangerous for either side. For right now I think your town but I do worry if you are scum. If you are your playing us quite well. Now needless to say you don't have all the power. This is probably not neither a gut nor a positive scum read, but just my skepticism.

Those are all I have right now that I have been looking into. May not be the best read list though >.<

[Daemon385]

Oh and ACfan as well is on there probobly should be 3 instead because I really am not sure if he is the PR or not. Or if he is if he is the scum with a PR. I feel I disbelieve it more then believe it, but it is risky to try and lynch him if he is. I maybe trust his claim about....60% sureness. I don't know what to say on this case though really. It is a risky shot, but he could be lying.

[Daemon385]

Daemon, NC, Cheery, Jake - agree or disagree? Let's get this taken care of.

If we don't have enough time to lynch anyone with pretty much no votes on them atm then why are you suggesting myself Cherry and Jake? Which either have no votes or maybe like 1 vote? The only one on there that would go with what you yourself said would be NC

[Daemon385]

Vote:NicCage

[Daemon385]

Damn I guess he was town. But who is CD? Do you mean Cherry Pie?

[Daemon385]

I may be wrong but I was curious about the Toomai wagon I think I am oblivious to why vote him? I just need to know what is up with him >.<

[Daemon385]

Aye he even tried to leave us with something as he knew we were probably lynching him. Just cause you claim a PR role you shouldn't just sit back because if you are that roll and such a needed one then you NEED to do as much as you can for the town until something happens.

[Daemon385]

Just because someone has played with a character? What does that even do for evidence? Seriously. That makes 0 sense.

[Daemon385]

@ Daemon

I may be wrong but I was curious about the Toomai wagon I think I am oblivious to why vote him? I just need to know what is up with him >.<

Read and figure out for yourself.

I hate to be rude, but don't ask people to do work for you. Many people posted suspicions on Toomai, and it shouldn't take much to read through Day 1 and figure out why people are suspicious of him. If you are curious about a point someone made, I'd be more than happy to answer. However you refusing to do any critical thinking for yourself isn't very townie.

No that is fine I basically did that after I posted it I mainly posted that to see if I can get and snips or clips of what people thought to be honest I'm caught back up on the situation now.

[Daemon385]

Aye agreed as well.

[Daemon385]

Yes a role who can kill and roleblock? Is there even a role that can do such a thing? I mean theoretically I guess there is. That is a very strange claim without more details for sure. I don't think a mass claim is such a good idea just yet. Maybe another day I'd say in my opinion or if something real insane goes down.

No one said there is a doctor but it is interesting that no one died last night. Even know we got a nice kill, what is the scum up to and who (maybe saved a life) has been running through my head.

As much as I am unsure of Scott being town, and I'm not very sure he is. This role claim does need to be clarified.

[Daemon385]

If you killed zef then...that means mafia has killed no one?

[Daemon385]

So town so far has:

compulsive neighbourizer (day talk)
One-shot Tracker
JoAT

And Toomai's VT call as well if your counting everyone who has roleclaimed/revealed through death

[Daemon385]

Yeah that does make sense xD I can get down with an HP lynch

[Daemon385]

Yeah but the thing is how do we know if he does or not =P that is the big problem there

[Daemon385]

Yeah but the thing is how do we know if he does or not =P that is the big problem there

Can you give us your individual thoughts on these claims?

I see you popping into the thread from time to time, but you're really not offering much to the table every time you do.

For me my personal opinion on the HP JoaT claim is a bit sketchy for me especially on how he used the kill. Which I thought was silly to think about using on N1. And on that specific person? Sure I can see two people attacking the same target but stilll..wtf. Him RB Scott makes more since. There wasn't a night kill last night so either he is lying and a doc heal the person who really was supposed to die or he isn't. That is how I see it. But if Cherry's claim is true and he did heal the person that was to die last night then that puts an even bigger look see at HP. I would actually honestly believe Cheery's claim better then I would HP's at this current moment.

Now Cheery's claim although rocky with how he has played if he is the doctor he has been doing well on not giving his role away. Which the longer a doctor lives the better usually (if he can pick and choose the right targets.

Scott I have been suspicious of since Day 1. Him and NicCage. Though unfortunately Nic wasn't the right target it seems. Though he did give us much insight on who is scum. Scott while still suspicious I'm not sure he is scum. I would believe he could be one of the rest remain or something else.

And also I'm pretty sure JFR is town the suspicion is nice, but I think it may be a bit misguided. They have proven very useful to town so far so I have no worries so far of them being scum.

I'd say my 3 biggest suspision right now are HP, Scott, and Dys (Dys being more of a null then a positive scum just not really sure)

[Daemon385]

VT here as well nothing special other then that that is my role so Dys next to popcorn

[Daemon385]

.

I'm okay if someone wants to invest me with no issues I have nothing to hide.

[Daemon385]

Well actually, we could use HP's 1-shot check on one of the VT's. That might be best actually.

Checking Toomai or Daemon would be pretty good.

This is what I was quoting by the way sorry for some reason if bugged out on me

[Daemon385]

.

I'm okay if someone wants to invest me with no issues I have nothing to hide.

You'd also know we were wasting an invest on you if you were town.

- GC

Exactly my point

[Daemon385]

Bah Toomai your just going with the easy finger point. Like you haven't? I actually have more activity then you have so far in this game.

[Daemon385]

I may be wrong but I was curious about the Toomai wagon I think I am oblivious to why vote him? I just need to know what is up with him >.<

I think the main beef people have with me is the conception that I votehop and therefore don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not me. If that's what people want to think then whatever.

@ ac1983fan

I could functionally vote you as well. Why were you not present in the thread at all in the last few days of D1?

This bothers me as well. Just because you claimed a PR before deadline doesn't mean you should just sit back and expect to be okay, especially with a weak one that multiple people wanted to lynch anyway.

Vote: ac1983fan

This guy literally wants to lynch anybody. NC gains steam, hes on there. acfan gains steam hes on there, acfan loses steam jumps back to NC. hap wants to lead a wagon against me, hey maybe we can get some support!

The only thing worth Toomai's vote is any potential lynch.

For the record, for the last few pages I have been receptive towards lynching two people:

• NicCage, because he started out scummy and now seems to be lurking, maybe hoping his wagon goes away. Since his wagon has been omnipresent throughout the day, lynching him would probably provide a good amount of information.
• ac1983fan, because of the persuasive case posted and the weird claim (though I am still unsure whether to believe it).

I don't currently want to lynch Scott Brosius since I'm still kind of undecided on him; I was suggesting we might be able to start a wagon because it might generate more useful information.

You have me convinced. I felt there was going to be at least one scum in the set of not-common-posters and the evidence seems legit.

Vote: ac1983fan

Well I guess I'll go back to where I was then.

Vote: NicCage

That said, 1-Shot Doctor seems like a really weird claim to me. It's weak and unusual enough that it doesn't look like something that would be faked, but in the same way it's far easier to explain why he's not being killed (since if the claim is true the Mafia probably would like to keep him around for a while to keep suspicion high, as opposed to a full Doctor claim which would make everyone expect instant death).

I agree with the people suggesting that scum has no reason to update a claim to add "Weak".

Unvote

While I try to figure out who to vote I'll note that JRD seems to have shifted into a rather offensive state. Feels somewhat different than Day 1 style.

He has never once stayed on a wagon for mafia/voted one up. He goes from voting AC to not because (Oh everyone is backing off I am backing off to let me go back to NicCage) where from what it looks like stayed there for the lynch. He has been pointing fingers all game without much of a sight on any scum reads he had from his first scum read post which mainly consisted of him thinking Varsoon was scum (basicly his only scum read other then GCBC and a few iffies) but he never followed in his pursuit hardly to get the one person he though was for sure scummy? Since day one he voted varsoon and wanted to get him lynched but no case and it was his top scum read? At least I had two main scum reads and that was NicCage and Scott but unfortunatly Nic wasn't what I thought and a townie died, but we did end up getting one of the scum thanks to JFR.

[Daemon385]

Y'know what fine.

Vote: Toomai

I currently have no idea what I'm doing. I will be a liability to the town until I flip or do a full reread (which will take a few days). We have two mislyches to give so go ahead and use one.

Replace out instead of wasting our lynches.

- GC

In my opinion he is doing this because:
A.He is town and is just giving up or trying to show he is helpess in showing proof and not getting lynched.
B.He is scum or otherwise trying to throw some weight of him with a "OMG i'm town get of my back jeez" type of vote

[Daemon385]

I seriously don't think JFR is scum. I think thye have proven there worth as town so far. I don't think they are to worry about like I said before. That being said I've waffled so much because not only have I been so confused in this game I'm also a horrible skeptic. Which hinders me most times. I can CP, JFR, GCBC, and probobly Varsoon and Dys. But I also am kinda null about Scott at this point. And Toomai I just don't really know I haven't had much of a read on him all game. Neither for Dys either which also makes me....iffy. Though again that is my skepticism.

[Daemon385]

It is possible yes. But I'm not really sure. I've been suspicious of Scott for a lot of the game. With increasing doubt on my suspicion. Especially since I was wrong on the whole NicCage thing. Though it is possible as a last resort type of thing to save any sliver of scum they have left, but it could also be a mislynch waiting to happen.

[Daemon385]

Neither was Toomai on either of those lynches. I'm vt and that is all there is too it. No need to waist a ml if we can find the scum.

[Daemon385]

Why not track Toomai/ SB?

- GC

given the flip, SB looked most likely town imo.

we tracked varsoon cause his replace out came at an awkard time when HP was getting lynched and it really looked like frustration in his scum buddies.

-J

And what did you get from tracking Varsoon?

[Daemon385]

Bah I think we could do something other then just taking down a townie. Yet at this point I don't my words are going to mean anything.

Vote: Toomai

[Daemon385]

Vote:Toomai

My bad forgot to bold =P

[Daemon385]

Meh I think Toomai would be a better choice to kill then inspect me. Looks like I have no say in this matter at this point. You guys are going to lynch town.

[Daemon385]

Neither are that impressive, but at the very least look at who scum was voting for parts of the game, toomai.

This got me thinking.

	D1	D2	D3
hp[leaves] 's votes	GCBC, NC , Toomai , NC , Toomai , NC	Toomai	SB, hp[l]
ac1983fan 's votes	Toomai , Daemon, Varsoon , SB	SB	—
GoodCopBadCop's votes	JRD , acf , NC , zefiend , Varsoon , SB, acf , NC , Toomai , NC	acf , Toomai , acf	hp[l]
Toomai 's votes	Varsoon , GCBC, NC , GCBC, Varsoon , NC , acf , NC	acf	Dyslx , SB
Scott Brosius's votes	GCBC, Varsoon , Toomai	Toomai , acf	hp[l]
Daemon385's votes	NC , acf , NC

(

conf-town

,

prob-town

,

self-conf-town

,

conf-scum

,

dead

)
(RVS votes counted. Unvotes and vote durations ignored.)

I'm not sure what to do with this right now, but maybe someone else will have a flash of insight. I do know one thing though: Daemon is the only player to get through two days without voting.

GCBC practically has the hammer at this point though (assuming Toomai would switch off himself)

Indeed.

Unvote

This could be helpful. I'm going to try and analyze it myself. See if I can find some kind of connection. I hope we can find something out of this

[Daemon385]

Bah I still think this is a bad idea. Good game though I am VT as you'll see. I believe this is the hammer since toomai hammered me in. I feel like I know who the scum is now though. Good luck town. Win it for us.

[Daemon385]

Vote Toomai

Because

[Daemon385]

Yeah I know. Good luck with finding that scum though I'll be rooting for you guys no hard feelings =D

[Daemon385]

Just figured I'd save my skin if I could to live another day haha

[Daemon385]

Eh like I have said before I know I am VT and I think just lynching me is a bad idea. Now the person I mentioned before I have a idea who could be the scum. It looks like the most suspicious voting pattern would be Toomai, GCBC, and maybe Scott from looking at the vote counter thing. More so on GCBC because of the what looks like jump voting and mainly on town, but this is just speculation. Toomai I still really just don't know about him yet. I wanna think he is town though. And I am still weary on the who Scott deal.

The only reasons I would think he wasn't killed is the fact that he is maybe scum and someone else protected and he is hiding quite nicely, but I doubt it. Or it was too easy for them maybe they figured they could have got caught by tracker or any other role hiding amongst us or to even make him look suspicious. I think he is town though. Now between Myself, Toomai, Scott, GCBC, and Dysx one of us is lying (hopefully just one). We all called VT if I am correct. And obviously that isn't possible.

[Daemon385]

And that is with me believing JFR and CP are in fact town. Which I do believe so considering JFR several attempts at getting scum being successful so far. And Cherry's claim of protection which I doubt would be wrong at this point. If there was another doc I feel they would have come out by now to prove him wrong.

Me and Toomai have been mostly quiet all game so not to much has stuck out from us really.
GCBC and Scott in my eyes have played more scummier then most players in this game looking at there ISO.
Dysx well like I said I have no damn clue here xD but probobly more so in same catagory as me and Toomai

[Daemon385]

Flail more bitch

I'm still not diverting from the plan. Daemon/Toomai that's what dashie said, I listen.

Fair enough I suppose she is inclined to her decision. I am at least glad we have some balls rolling and hopefully we can figure out who the scum are.

[Daemon385]

Who said anything about a mafia traitor?

[Daemon385]

We just did, daemon

deal w/ it

-badcop

Just asking didn't see anything about it is all

[Daemon385]

You can't take a page out of my book.

Your iso is sketchy.

Dude, I just remembered. Who out of all the town did Kuribo invite to the neighborhood?
I've been so town from day 1.

- GC

Is there anyway you'd be able to show proof of this at all?

[Daemon385]

Actually I haven't voted you. I only stated a small suspicion.