Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[ac1983fan]

/confirm
Note: posting will be sporadic next week (semi-LA from Tues to Sat) but I should still be able to post once a day or so.

[ac1983fan]

VOTE: Toomai because your french speaking, Canada livingness is a threat to my American values

[ac1983fan]

I'm not convinced about ac1983 fan

his vote was definitely trying to hide in the chaos, rather than contribute to creating order and information

hes scum basically

Or maybe that was just, y'know, a random vote during the RVS?
But thank you for providing the overreaction necessary to get us out of RVS.
UNVOTE:

4 posts, 4 seperate votes on different people?

this is bullshit, all 3 of you are actively trying to reduce town's information thus the scumteam is HP, Toomai, and ac1983fan

Ridiculously terrible reasoning. Random is random; not joining wagons in the first 5 posts is beyond a null tell.

Vote: GoodCopBadCop

Voting someone because of ridiculously terrible reasoning during the RVS/ending of the RVS? it's like you've never played before

[ac1983fan]

I'm not sure why NicCage has rounded up so many votes so quickly. it seems like people have latched onto a small handful of things he's said and jumped to seemingly ridiculous conclusions. I don't see how we have enough information about him to justify the number of votes he has. I think NC is more likely town whose wagon is being pushed by scum because it could feasibly give an easy d1 lynch for them.

VOTE: Daemon385. His first post was very iffy and he hasn't posted since then; it could just be his newness clouding his actions but for the moment I think this is a good place for my vote.

[ac1983fan]

I'm having a seriously hard time keeping up with everything everyone is saying since all these posts seem to be massive and I'm trying to balance exam prep and spending a few last days with my friends before the summer and this game. Sorry if my contributions have been poor; I'll try to get a reread after work tomorrow

[ac1983fan]

Hi I've just been prodded, I thought I made it clear with my first and last posts but finals and personal stuff has swamped me this week. I'll try to read through quickly and get a post in in the next 15 minutes. Sorry!

[ac1983fan]

Dyslexicon's 176 and 177 are startingly unhelpful and don't show any town motivation

I'm sorry I haven't been contributing more. Finals are proving hell. With such vocal townish play from Hapa there's gonna be mostly baaaaa anyways.
I strongly agree with Zef's post #168 where he agrees with some other players. Sheepasheep.
VOTE: NC

his vote on NC is basically justified with "well that's the most popular wagon so sounds good"

@acfan

His first post was

very iffy

and he hasn't posted since then; it could just be his newness clouding his actions but for the moment I think this is a good place for my vote.

Terrible reason to call someone scummy. What do you mean by "his post is iffy" exactly?

I mean, it just showed off signs of a player trying to make themselves look like they are something they are not, which is something scum inherently need to do whereas town do not. But I think his posts since then have shown it was more of a noob behavior than a scum behavior, so UNVOTE:

that's all that sticks out which hasn't really been said already and all I have time to post for the moment.

[ac1983fan]

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

Shh anyone who has played with me before (and there are indeed a few in this game) knows that I am a conservative voter and frequently have no vote out when I do not think it is appropriate so this is not a scumtell for me it is just playstyle

I unvoted Daemon because his behavior since my vote has made him seem more like just a noob than noobscum.

Hey, ACfan,
Vote for Toomai,
It's a good wagon.

Shh I do what I want

[ac1983fan]

Dyslexion, is there a reason you only responded to posts directed at/about you? Excluding the last three or four sentences of that post (248), that is. You didn't find one thing to question or comment directly on since your last post?

[ac1983fan]

Oh, that's my error. I though scott's 215 was directed at Dyslexicon b/c of how it was quoted. DERP. ~ignore me~

[ac1983fan]

GCBC, fluff is the stuff that takes up whole pages and says nothing.

Now, why aren't you down with the Scott wagon?

Did you read my post?

- GC

Nope.
So, why aren't you puttin votes on Scott?

Also Toomai,

Vote: Scott

Toomai, those are the reasons why you would vote anyone.

Stuff like this doesn't cut it. While I do think you're town, this is not give you a free-pass to play sub-optimally.

I think Scott is scum.
You should, too.
I don't need to articulate why he's scum, because I think it is so and I'm town.
Why should I have to play Town convincingly when I am town?

Holy shit.
VOTE: Varsoon
I'm sorry I have 0 patience for this.

[ac1983fan]

That wasn't the right response acfan.

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I'm not very good at this game after all. BUt I'm sticking to it

Now it is totally within Varsoon's right to play this game in that way, but I find the fact that he refuses to actually substantiate his claims to be just wrong. Obviously my vote is subject to change pending future postings but as of the moment I am 100% comfortable with lynching Varsoon

[ac1983fan]

You see, I held the same belief once, as well--that people who play scummy should get lynched and people who are town should be substantial with their posts and produce pro-town content. This generally led to me being a D1/D2 lynch or night-kill, with little substantial play built off of what I had posted and/or my death. As it turns out, in a town full of idiots, it's a lot better to play the idiot-savant or even the town fool. It makes people slip scum all over themselves as they point fingers at your play, which is usually not any better than most other players'.
Feel free to check my other game where I'm playing exactly the same way, except that I spent nearly four hours substantiating my claims and it got me nowhere. There's no reason to put forward tons of effort to find scum, it's far easier to let scum reveal itself.

The thing is Varsoon, is I'm not voting you because you look scummy. I'm voting you because you are being anti-town (and a bit of an ass about it), and on D1, anti-town play is just as good as scummy vibes, especially for a player like me who is shit at this game in general.

--
I'm still wary of Dyslexicon, and NicCage's latest post is openly admitted anti-town play, so I guess I can see why there is a wagon on him again.

[ac1983fan]

If this is true then unvote Varsoon. We aren't policy lynching.

Also, stop it with your "I'm crap" bs. It makes you look like scum trying to create an excuse for when you do something scummy.

I'm not policy lynching, when did I say anything about policy lynching??
And the quality of my play is irrelevant to my alignment. Bad play != scummy play. I'm just stating the facts here; I've only won one game where I didn't die early on and that was because the town lynched scum every day largely independently of my own actions. The last couple of games I've completed I've either lost or contributed a good deal towards the loss of my alignment. You'll find similar remarks in other games I've played in regardless of my alignment.

[ac1983fan]

@ ac1983fan

The thing is Varsoon, is I'm not voting you because you look scummy. I'm voting you because you are being anti-town

(and a bit of an ass about it), and on D1, anti-town play is just as good as scummy vibes, especially for a player like me who is shit at this game in general.

You are policy lynching. What is in bold is known as a policy-lynch.

But I'm not following any policy??? I'm just voting for someone whose lynch I believe would be good for the town.

Sure, anti-town behavior is less correlated with being scum than scummy behavior, but let's be honest, there are no absolute scumtells barring a player claiming scum etc; moreover, we have the least information on day 1 and lynching an anti-town player is fair from the worst D1 choice. Granted, a player who is both anti-town and seemingly scummy would be a better choice, but I don't see too much behavior that makes me see anyone as scum. Additionally, the two biggest wagons at the moment are against Varsoon and NicCage, both of whom I've seen heavy anti-town behavior from.

[ac1983fan]

Reads based on ISOs...
Cheery Pie = Seems town. Their thinking seems in line with mine most of the time. Their initial push on NicCage I'm not sure I liked but doesn't seem like it comes from a scum perspective.
Daemon385 = primarily null/newb. His initial post looked scummy but I think that was a misread. He tends to follow others but that's not necessarily scummy, although can be suspicious.
Dyslexicon = Very light scumread for reasons previously stated. It doesn't feel like there is any attempt at contributing anything in his posts, but there haven't been very many of them. I really didn't like his vote on NC. I'm not very confident in that though.
GoodCopBadCop = null, slight town, mostly gut.
hapahauli = ObvTown. I don't see a player making a case like that on me unless they honestly believed I was scum.
hp[leaves] = Uncomfortably quiet. Light scum read.
Jake from Rainbowdash = Generally town read.
NicCage = The early suspicion of NicCage made me uncomfrotable, and I still don't see any scummy behavior out of him, just a fair amount of anti-town behavior. Null, ever so slightly leaning town.
Scott Brosius = Another rather quiet player, but when he posts it doesn't seem particularly scummy. Null.
Toomai = Same as Brosius; null.
Varsoon = I don't have a read on him either way but his anti-town behavior is overbearing.
zefiend = I honestly keep forgetting this guy is even playing and the fact that he has been able to slide into the background unnoticed makes me quite uncomfortable.

-----------
Hapa hauli, did you ever care to look at any of the dates on my postings?
All of the examples you cite, barring Open 411, were from games that I played in

Over four years ago

. Or more. I was 16 or younger at any given moment while playing those games.

I was also an idiot but that is not really relevant.

My playstyle has changed significantly since those games. Moreover, I did not play any Mafia games on this site for several years (from April 2010 to May 2012). Additionally, allow me to point to an example in my most recent finished game:

vote:belisarius

As mentioned before he's active lurking worse than NS and I don't like the fact that several of his posts of contribution have been rather anti-town.

I voted Belisarius because I thought he was anti-town. I also later voted NS in that game out of frustration similar to as I did in Open 411, because he's that kind of player. I vote players for being anti-town when I don't see any other good options. It's not an isolated instance. I admire your dedication but please, all of your evidence about how I should behave is taken from a time when I played quite differently than I do now (barring the Open 411 example which I think actually does accurately reflect my present playstyle).

Also, of course I vote players for being scummy, who doesn't?? But I consider anti-townness a good reason to vote, especially when it's day 1 and there is minimal information.

Moreover, I was L/A for the first week of this game due to final exams and personal life stuff, so my focus on this game hasn't been too great. I can admit that.

Also, you've mischaracterized my latter posts about NC. Notice that just before I started calling NC anti-town, he posted...

I'll probably lurk the amount I feel like lurking unless you ask me stuff, so good for you for asking.

Which is openly admitting to not having been busy or anything but simply not caring enough to post, which is plainly anti-town behavior. I stand by my earlier suspicion of the wagon against NC, but that doesn't mean that his more recent posts shouldn't be taken into account as well.
----------

Claim: One-Shot Doctor

So obviously it shouldn't be too big of a deal if I'm lynched, but I think the reasoning in this case is based on some flawed assumptions.

[ac1983fan]

@ ac1983fan

Secondly, that "recent game" quote vote on Bellasarius is of extremely different context in this game. Your vote against him in that game was an

early game pressure vote

.

Wrong. Let me be clear:

I do not make pressure votes. I vote for people I want lynched

. Period. Regardless of if I am scum or town.
Moreover, I did not find Beli scummy until later on in that game; initially it was merely anti-town play that pinged him on my radar. Of course I vote for people who I believe are scum, but voting for people who I believe are scum and voting for anti-town players is not mutually exclusive.

(Oh, and I made an error when responding to your first post. You said your quotes from Open 480 were from Mini 480, and I just assumed they were from one of the games I played back in 07/08. But it was actually from a different game. My bad)

[ac1983fan]

It was an early-game pressure vote.

No, it was not. I do not make pressure votes. Ever. Period.

More importantly, you're picking gripes with mini technicalities in my case rather than addressing the overarching theme. You were super suspicious of Dislexicon, asked a ton of questions to him, then all of a sudden you get so "frustrated" with Toomai that you vote him solely on the basis of being anti-town.

Varsoon. I voted Varsoon. And I asked Dyslexicon like two questions, and the second time I

misread his post

. I was not

super suspicious of him.

[ac1983fan]

^ My thoughts exactly

I'd expect a little more emotion from him ya know? His responses to my case are very clean and manufactured, and that's one of the reasons I'm still suspicious of AC. Ya think he'd display a litte more emotion/frustration having gone from 0 votes to L-1 overnight. Instead, he's very emotionally reserved.

I mean, I'm aware my role is not very useful, and I've been lynched D1 or D2 as a townie previously in other games without being concerned much about it. I think your case is based on totally wrong reasoning but I've explained that as much as I can, there's obviously no changing your mind and so I'm not going to waste my time defending myself further. Moreover, I've cast the vote against who I think is the best Day 1 lynch here, and most of the past couple of pages have been debates between my town reads over whether or not I should be lynched, so I haven't had much to add.

[ac1983fan]

UNVOTE:
Varsoon's behavior has been significantly less anti-town since I cast my vote for him, although I still really did NOT like that set of posts he made before I voted for him.
Unfortunately it seems the only counterwagon to my own is NicCage's, who I'm not very interested in lynching.
Actually, relooking over the players again, Scott Brosius looks like a much more solid scumread than previously. He's flown under the radar for a lot of the game and the only thing he's done as the deadline come closer is make an off-wagon vote without a particularly well reasoned argument in favor of that. I noticed some willingness to lynch Brosius earlier but it seems most of the people who were willing to are either in favor of myself or NC as today's lynch. Regardless, I guess VOTE: Scott Brosius, even though it's probably in vain.

[ac1983fan]

Bloop bloop sorry

Updated Claim: One-Shot Weak Doc

I withheld the Weak modifier info because I didn't want to let my nightchoice be influenced by possible scum or anyone, really, and I didn't want to make myself a target for NK to frame someone or whatever.
I protected Hapa so he is conf town now.
--

I could functionally vote you as well. Why were you not present in the thread at all in the last few days of D1?

1) Busy with real life
2) Had defended myself from my case as much as I possibly could and that was the major topic of discussion
3) I pretty much thought I was going to be lynched (because it happens fairly frequently to me)

acfan should claim an action/inaction especially with only one shot. With the flip including the compulsive modifier, the claim seems more reasonable having the 1-shot. However, that reasoning isn't strong and acfan's play has suggested otherwise.

This is a very wishy-washy set of sentences that essentially says "acfan could be town or he could not be"

I may be wrong but I was curious about the Toomai wagon I think I am oblivious to why vote him? I just need to know what is up with him >.<

I think the main beef people have with me is the conception that I votehop and therefore don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not me. If that's what people want to think then whatever.

If you are town you should care at least a bit about what people think as you wouldn't want a mislynch to happen. *wiggles finger*

I dunno, my philosophy is always that if we can afford a mislynch, I am OK with me being that mislynch.
(I know this is super late but I've been a tad busy. Should be back to normal activity levels now. Just finished reading page 31 about to read 32/33)

[ac1983fan]

OK well there wasn't much on page 32 to comment on but
VOTE: Scott Brosius
I stand by my feelings about him from yesterday; he has basically just skated by without ever saying anything committal at all.

[ac1983fan]

I withheld the Weak modifier info because I didn't want to let my nightchoice be influenced by possible scum or anyone, really, and I didn't want to make myself a target for NK to frame someone or whatever.
I protected Hapa so he is conf town now.

Horseapples.

That's a scumclaim if ive ever heard one. Weak doc is actually a very strong role (just below cop) and probably is an attempt to draw out a counter from some info role. The role isn't bad (ive used 2-shot weak doc) but the fact that you wouldn't claim an investigative role, that we have a combined protect/investigate and then a communication role, just doesn't work for balance well. Im not sure I can see mod going anywhere with that setup.

Really this just schisms further from "what he would do as town" because im not for half a second going to believe that you targeted Hap as a weak doctor with

NO BREADCRUMBED INTENTION

of actually targeting him. You basically lined up a "im targeting SB" from your posts, and if Hap is scum you would have basically just caused a SB lynch on info, if you were wrong essentially leaving us near lylo with no D2 info.

So acfan is scum. Real simple, his new action claim confirms it.

Frankly, I don't know how to breadcrumb. I've never tried it, never thought of how to tried it. Moreover, I called Hap obv!town, and I didn't want to use my ability on someone I thought was scum...I just wanted to confirm hap's alignment; that way in the event of my lynch today (which I was expecting to happen anyway) that would leave you guys with a confirmed town.

[ac1983fan]

@ Jake

His amendment is not a scumclaim. I find it questionable, but there are questions to be answered - namely what the scum motivation is for his "amendment."

@ ac1983fan

There are several things I don't understand about your "story":

I withheld the Weak modifier info because I didn't want to let my nightchoice be influenced by possible scum or anyone, really, and I didn't want to make myself a target for NK to frame someone or whatever.
I protected Hapa so he is conf town now.

Your rationale for withholding your full role makes little sense as stated. Why would you be more fearful of getting your night-actions directed as a weak doctor as opposed to a normal 1-shot doctor?

Well, I didn't want to be directed onto a player who turned out to be scum, because I would have died. Maybe I didn't make the best tactical choice, I dunno, I've never played a weak doctor or weak anything before.

1) Busy with real life
2) Had defended myself from my case as much as I possibly could and that was the major topic of discussion
3) I pretty much thought I was going to be lynched (because it happens fairly frequently to me)

This annoys me greatly. If you don't want to be lynched,

POST GODDAMNIT

. Staying silent is the absolute worst thing you can do for yourself and for the town.

I wasn't intending to "stay silent." Just given the speed of the wagon against me, I wasn't expecting for the day to continue on so long without me dying. Moreover, sine D1 is 90% of the time (in my experience anyway) a mislynch I was perfectly OK with being that mislynch.

3. I personally feel the "bloop bloop" comment makes his claim less legit, hes getting run up and he's too nonchalant about it.

Bloop bloop, maybe I just like having fun when I play games.

[ac1983fan]

Dyslexicon

, I'm curious, have you had any suspicion on anyone currently alive besides me? The only votes you've cast have been either on NC or my wagon yesterday and on me today.

[ac1983fan]

Where I come from, we call these things "scumslips."

this is literally the best thing

[ac1983fan]

cause when scum is in a situation where they have no hope of winning, like this game, the best thing to do is just end the game and let town enjoy their win. dragging it on like he did is a personal annoyance and really just a dick move.

Errr, it's called playing the game to the end. Just "giving up" is unsportsmanlike, at least in my philosophy (yours might differ - which is fine).