NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Bacde]

WHATS UP CHOOBIES BACDE IN DA HOUSE

[Bacde]

VOTE: nachomamma8

classic.

[Bacde]

om are you scum?

[Bacde]

WHATS UP CHOOBIES BACDE IN DA HOUSE

Oh god, it's the tomato.

you scared I'm gonna catch you yet again?

[Bacde]

You always catch me, Bacde. Doesn't matter what alignment I am.

fun fact: I have never been scum in a game where fuzzybutternut exists

[Bacde]

I mean, I've never been scum either

but its cool to phrase it that way

[Bacde]

"confirmed scum"...why?

Because you're not confirmed scum. That was rhetoric.

Majiffy can answer for himself, Nacho.
That still doesn't explain his failure to push his apparently preferred Ceph wagon in any sort of productive way so yeah.

~

His playstyle does though!

VOTE: nachomamma8

classic.

hey there
don't vote B&B please

<3 u too nacho

VOTE: B&B

[Bacde]

why is no one voting

did I replace into "be a wuss" mafia

[Bacde]

based on the VC it looks like "not voting" has been lynched

what was the case on "not voting"?

<<< Lurking, of course. >>>

[Bacde]

Wow... That was A LOT to catch up on. But, after catching up

Vote B&B

if oversoul is scum, this dies instantly

Cool. Still doesn't mean I can't suspect him. Also, with Nero leaping around and adding nothing beneficial, I'm watching that closely.

yes lets fos nero for not posting content and only voting

VOTE: fenix

[Bacde]

Nero, please stop pretending to have a PR in a normal game.

This is a normal game?!?

lol wtf my reason for voting fenix is destroyed

[Bacde]

bc he posted a sentence

[Bacde]

Nero, please stop pretending to have a PR in a normal game.

This is a normal game?!?

lol wtf my reason for voting fenix is destroyed

Might not be.

If Nero has some type of post modifier (i saw it once in a game I was looking at) they are given a certain number of posts to post out of 'restriction area'.

so if nero is scum you are providing him an out

got it.

[Bacde]

are we just lynching OS because its OS or is there a better reason?

[Bacde]

hey guys whats up

<<< Fuzzy's post. >>>

[Bacde]

^^who do you hydra with fuzzy?

[Bacde]

dude if you call me a tomato I'ma just call you a dumbass

call me Bacde or "Sir"

[Bacde]

yeah geez fuzzy whats with the contentless posts wtf

[Bacde]

hey guys whats up

<<< Fuzzy's post. >>>

no, this was my post?

<<< You asked what was up. The post immediately above yours, "up", so to speak, was fuzzy's. So, literally, what was up was fuzzy. >>>

[Bacde]

don't worry guys, dumbass is town

and bulbazak is really wrong

[Bacde]

Why is Fuzzy town?

its hard to explain

but he's not acting like dumbass-scum

plus if he actually IS scum it'll be obvious when he scums it up later (this wont happen because he's town)

[Bacde]

VOTE: nachomamma8

I'll explain later

[Bacde]

"I got accused of lurking, now what?"

Bus, bus, bus your bud. Then townie, you will seem. Merilly, merilly, merilly, merilly, its a perfect scheme.

sorry, couldn't resist.

this is awesome because I'm bussing nacho right now

[Bacde]

Maybe we should make it a round?

if i wasn't already bussing nacho I would have voted you for this post.

[Bacde]

yuck. Other than myself all the town reads blow. AK with a town lean?

also why is there not a "confirmed town" slot w/ bacde in it

[Bacde]

HD, like to give a reason why we are possible scum? You too Nero.

Well for one you are wondering why you are a possible scum

everyone is a possible scum

even me

and I'm confirmed town

[Bacde]

I'm actually down to lynch nacho

this feels like scum-nacho to me

(how was that as a contribution?)

[Bacde]

VOTE: nachomamma0

[Bacde]

hey guys whats up

<<< Fuzzy's post. >>>

no, this was my post?

<<< You asked what was up. The post immediately above yours, "up", so to speak, was fuzzy's. So, literally, what was up was fuzzy. >>>

lol, mastin humor

[Bacde]

woah when did nachomamma8 become the biggest wagon?

all of a sudden everyone thinks I'm a good scumhunter? (unlikely even though its true)

I guess its just a 4-man wagon, which can be legit

currently ISOing redryu

[Bacde]

Who, besides me, thinks Angel is obsessed with me?

Everyone here knows I'm town babe. Help me kill scumNacho.

p sure AA9 is scum

almost certain nacho is scum

[Bacde]

town-nacho would not have tunneled this idiotic OS case for this long

but its the perfect case for him to push as scum

until I REPLACE IN AND CALL HIM OUT ON IT

[Bacde]

the funny thing is, OS totally MIGHT be scum (his "information" would be totally easy to fake if he were, for instance, an SK)

but nacho is like DEFINITELY scum

[Bacde]

whatever floats your boat man as long as you are voting for my scumread

[Bacde]

Why is Slandaar not voting scumNacho?

why is there a velociraptor holding an rpg riding a great white

its just one of those questions ya know

[Bacde]

Who, besides me, thinks Angel is obsessed with me?

Everyone here knows I'm town babe. Help me kill scumNacho.

Isn't that is otherway around?

Who, besides me, thinks Angel is obsessed with me?

Everyone here knows I'm town babe. Help me kill scumNacho.

p sure AA9 is scum

almost certain nacho is scum

Oh really, How am I scum again, i missed your catch up post Bcade...

don't worry, I haven't explained why you are scum

lets just lynch nacho, and you can nightkill me tonight so you can sweep this whole aa9-is-probably-scum thing under the rug

[Bacde]

As the day drags on, Oversoul shifts out of the group's focus. Slowly but surely, Bacde spearheads a new angle, attacking one strong advocate of lynching Oversoul, Nachomamma8.

sheesh make my chainsaw more obvious please

[Bacde]

Nacho is a read we both share, neither of us like the mass-claim and neither of us like his push on OS who we both think is probably town.

I figured that he was lying, so I pushed him for it. The massclaim idea you might not like, but I don't really see how that makes me scum.

though I have quite a fair amount of reason for Nacho-scum

I've heard "massclaim, summary, OS is town". That's about it.

Hey Nacho, thoughts on Cehprir?

I don't like the way he's responding so far, but I'm still waiting for the wheels to turn a little more before I give a solid read on him.

I'm actually down to lynch nacho

this feels like scum-nacho to me

(how was that as a contribution?)

You got me all excited when you said you were gonna provide reasoning later...

town-nacho would not have tunneled this idiotic OS case for this long

but its the perfect case for him to push as scum

It's also a good case to push as town, considering he was lying and it's a shitty gambit as town.

pfft. Nacho badgering mover asking why Mollie called me an "indie" is just retarded and scummy. That's all that needs to be said.

Why?

VOTE: Bulb
Sheeping. Etc.

Hey fuzzy, nice of you to join us? Where have you been?

People should put more votes on Nacho.

Red Ryu! Why didn't you like my observations on Oversoul?

I made that claim because I wanted to see the reactions and judge whether or not anyone would jump down my throat to get me lynched for it and so far only Nacho really committed that crime.

Why did you think that anyone would jump down your throat to get you lynched for it?

lol look at this post

does this look like a "Hey I'm Nacho and I'm town and I'm pushing my point of view" post?

or does this look like a "Hey I'm Nacho and I'm scum and I wanna just check in and not be suspected for not posting" post?

Seriously.

@Nacho no its not a shitty gambit to do as town, if he is actually informed then its helpful for him to reveal his information ASAP. Also my reasoning is pretty much that your play in this game isn't your town play. Thats it.

If you AREN'T voting nacho after this post, you need to explain why

[Bacde]

Eddie and Slandaar and Oversoul seriously wtf?

I'm trying to move this game in a direction and you three are being deliberately anti-town by not even responding to my strong assertion I made just 4 posts ago

[Bacde]

guys take out the head and the body will die

Nacho is scumbutt #1 and I REFUSE to even CONSIDER bandwagoning anyone else until we get this situation resolved

[Bacde]

Eddie and Slandaar and Oversoul seriously wtf?

I'm trying to move this game in a direction and you three are being deliberately anti-town by not even responding to my strong assertion I made just 4 posts ago

guys bc is right. this is scum nacho we are seeing

VOTE: nacho

thank you thank you

yes I'm right

yes I am

[Bacde]

Can AK be her buddy?

YES!

now vote for nacho

[Bacde]

no. I'm not gonna vote for Nacho. Not now or ever.

why?

[Bacde]

Speculating about scum pairings without a flip from either player is a waste of time. Red Ryu is now officially scummy, more for the mindless Nacho pushing than directing investigative roles. The case on Nacho is currently, as far as I can tell, "look at this post now vote Nacho". I hate hate hate cases like this. It's exactly as useful as no reason at all or the "well duh read his posts" case. I don't see what's scummy about the post in question and require some actual analysis.

@Desperado: I'm not really sure why you feel DLG is scumhunting more or less than anyone else. His style is just to ask questions of players to get reactions, though he's light on scumreads outside of AA9. Suspicion of Bulb did seem to pop up out of nowhere admittedly. I dunno, I'm sure one could find another player in similar straits so attacking him seems kind of random to me.

it doesn't look like you have any idea whats going on, PLUS you are doing EXACTLY what nacho didn't want me to do when I replaced in

subtle distancing? yes

nacho's scumbuddy found? Yes

[Bacde]

the case on nacho is that nacho rules at mafia

but for some reason this game he is really lame

and his posts are lame

[Bacde]

what did OS admit to?

this is news to me

[Bacde]

There's also the possibility that OS is scum and knows that there are more than 2 nightkills in the game somehow

but either way nacho is hopping on this in an opportunistic, fake, and lifeless way as a convenient way to hide the fact that hes not scumhunting

because faking scumhunting is tough work

nacho is scum

[Bacde]

when did OS admit to lying? link plz

[Bacde]

Syr and CTD are also scum

this wagon on Red Ryu is bullshit

we need more votes on Nacho

town-nacho would have checked in and said something sassy by now

[Bacde]

Actually CTD might night be scum I overreacted

but Syr is likely scum

[Bacde]

How is the Ryu wagon bad? Give reasons other than "because it is".

because nacho is obv-scum right now and the Ryu wagon reeks of "counterwagon GO!"

red ryu has been garnering votes for his playstyle and nothing he's been doing is scummy

lets look at your responses to his posts:

Why do you refuse to consider that Oversoul is scum?

Your an idiot if you think I never thought this.

Your posts don't indicate that.

great response to red ryu's post. Basically you are saying "I refuse to believe you no matter WHAT you say! Its possible that you are scum so you must be scum!" If you are trying to make red ryu look scummy you are doing a

great

job

Here's another great response:

But he tried to push OS on this as being scummy, there was no reason to consider him scummy for that action,

he deliberately refused to think OS was town doing that lying or telling the truth.

I am no throwing out the possibility OS is scum

That's not what it looks like to me.

Awesome! So just because you aren't seeing the same things as Red Ryu, now hes scum?

Yeah nvm, your wagon on Red Ryu is great. You've really pointed out great reasons that he should be wagoned instead of nacho

[Bacde]

Just ISOed Nacho WHAT THE BUTT HES BEEN PUSHING A MASSCLAIM SINCE THE BEGINNING?!?!

THAT CHEEKY SCUMBUTT

[Bacde]

I'm not worried about looking scummy because I'm right about nacho being scum

Your vision of a "chainsaw defense" is flawed because we haven't seen any flips yet

[Bacde]

Also how is me quoting your posts in any way strawmanning?

It was me responding to what you literally said

[Bacde]

Sorry, proposing and pushing a d1 massclaim AND tunneling on OS for having a slightly strange claim are NOT nacho's town play

this is pretty obvious

[Bacde]

Spoiler:

Why is this a bad/stupid point, Nacho?

I guess I'll let mollie answer your question first.

So Mollie, why did you call me a 3rd party?

Now I ask why you care about her specific reasoning as to why you are a third party. The scumtell should be that she's looking for third party, not that you're checking for valid reasoning or not.

why did you care about her reasoning?

but if she did have a decent reason she wasn't...?
she just found you?

I mean really, its like the first thing anyone would do is ask why a player said that. Bcade is probs right that Nacho is scum.

when people call me third party, i call them scum unless they have a penchant for the thing, like most normal people.

So you're saying that you would think a player was scum if they called you the sk without a strong/good reasoning. Wich is exactly what I said a few posts ago....

I'm saying that I would think a player is scum if they called me the SK unless they are known for oddly calling players third party.

although I really think we should be voting thor

mollie...

please stop letting nero troll you, jesus

hell no, i'm still revelling in that. I'm gonna post in other games first tho.

Can anyone here see a legitimate train of thought or motivation to scumhunt in this string of posts?

If not, then vote for nachomamma8

[Bacde]

ob·vi·ous [ob-vee-uhs]
adjective
1. easily seen, recognized, or understood; open to view or knowledge; evident: an obvious advantage.
2. lacking in subtlety.

Hm, it doesn't look like there are ~20 votes on Nacho. I guess 15 of us must be scum!

Tell me Ceph, what is your motivation for making this post?

I assume you think Nacho is obvious town if you think its THAT funny that I think nacho is obvious scum

[Bacde]

Get em Bacde!

support me with a

VOTE: nachomamma8

please

[Bacde]

Your vision of a "chainsaw defense" is flawed because we haven't seen any flips yet

The same could be said about "white knighting", but players make the argument anyway based on their read on the game. I believe Oversoul is scum. Ryu is attacking Nacho, BECAUSE he's attacking Oversoul. Ryu's recent actions have made me believe he is scum. Therefore, Ryu is chainsaw defending Oversoul.

Also how is me quoting your posts in any way strawmanning?

It was me responding to what you literally said

You looked at my posts without any context and ignored everything that led up to them, where I explained everything clearly, and attacked the weakest parts of the whole, which is the very definition of strawmanning.

What if...

maybe...

OS COULD be scum, but the way nacho is attacking him makes nacho DEFINITELY scum

[Bacde]

Okay, 996 basically answers my question, but feel free to elaborate if there's more.

I think this may be tough for you to see because my case is nacho-specific

if a different player was acting the way nacho is right now, maybe they could be town maybe

but not nacho

nacho is scum

[Bacde]

^^I've been making a case

buy it or railroad yourself to a town-loss

your choice

[Bacde]

Okay, 996 basically answers my question, but feel free to elaborate if there's more.

I think this may be tough for you to see because my case is nacho-specific

if a different player was acting the way nacho is right now, maybe they could be town maybe

but not nacho

nacho is scum

Well, okay. I believe that you have reasons now, they just aren't reasons that can possibly convince me.

Well you don't have to be convinced to be willing to give me a shot on d1

[Bacde]

41 pages already..?
i am less then two days behind and i have hell to catch up again!!!!
Slow down ladies...

ok AA9 is scum too guys plz lynch this after we lynch scum nacho and then I get NKed for being too awesome

[Bacde]

I would like to hear from nacho before we lynch him though

yeah me too

I didn't realize he had connectivity issues

which makes me glad my reasoning on him is better than just "he's not checking in enough"

[Bacde]

41 pages already..?
i am less then two days behind and i have hell to catch up again!!!!
Slow down ladies...

ok AA9 is scum too guys plz lynch this after we lynch scum nacho and then I get NKed for being too awesome

Since there's always the possibility I'm wrong about Nacho....
I'll help you lynch Nacho today if you help me lynch AA tomorrow.

ok its a deal

AA9 is seriously scum I can't believe she's guilt tripping me lol

[Bacde]

41 pages already..?
i am less then two days behind and i have hell to catch up again!!!!
Slow down ladies...

ok AA9 is scum too guys plz lynch this after we lynch scum nacho and then I get NKed for being too awesome

What? cmon Bcade, aren't you better player than this.. This is seriously low of you..even if you're scum.

lol the funny thing is I'm not a better player than this

I see you as scum and the only thing that will change that is if you start posting town

I don't care how guilty about it you make me feel (and you will make me feel guilty)

[Bacde]

41 pages already..?
i am less then two days behind and i have hell to catch up again!!!!
Slow down ladies...

ok AA9 is scum too guys plz lynch this after we lynch scum nacho and then I get NKed for being too awesome

What? cmon Bcade, aren't you better player than this.. This is seriously low of you..even if you're scum.

because this response is hilarious:

why is it "low" of me to have a scumread on you?

[Bacde]

aight mala just wait for your better half to post in the QT that I'm town town town cuz we're gonna win this game baby

@AA9 I actually do have reasons for thinking that you are scum. Does this improve your image of me?

Also I never said that I feel guilty, I said that if you keep trying to guilt trip me then I will feel guilty in the future. after your guilt trips

But lemme guess--you are moving into a Bacde-scumread right?

[Bacde]

you actually made yourself twice "LOW" with in 10 minutes of period.

A) You don't have any real reason to call me scum
B) and now you current reason to continue this argument is that "i said you're low for reading me scum" which is still false.. I didn't say that you're LOW becuase you read me scum, I said you're LOW becuz you faked your read on me.

A) Yes, I do have a real reason to call you scum

B) So in your post where you said "Thats low, even if you are scum" you were trying to imply that you thought I was scum? Because it sounded more like you were trying to fake that you didn't know that I'm town and that you are scum.

[Bacde]

like the dick

[Bacde]

sorry I had to

[Bacde]

you actually made yourself twice "LOW" with in 10 minutes of period.

A) You don't have any real reason to call me scum
B) and now you current reason to continue this argument is that "i said you're low for reading me scum" which is still false.. I didn't say that you're LOW becuase you read me scum, I said you're LOW becuz you faked your read on me.

A) Yes, I do have a real reason to call you scum

B) So in your post where you said "Thats low, even if you are scum" you were trying to imply that you thought I was scum? Because it sounded more like you were trying to fake that you didn't know that I'm town and that you are scum.

how about we debate the topic about you're scum i am town and you live low and whatsoever after you give why you think I am SCUM and how you suddently managed to read me scum out of no where which didn't even happen or been discussed over at all.

dude, right?

I can see why you are so frustrated right now.

It totally sucks to be called out as maf based on like 1 post doesn't it?

You're maf AA9, but I still like you!

And your retaliation against me is silly. So you think I'm maf because I have a legitimate reason to scumread you? I don't understand where your scumread on me is even coming from, as its fairly obvious I'm more concentrated on lynching nacho than focus on you

Honestly, you should have just ignored me. I might have dropped the scum read or seen something else and gotten distracted, and you might have been able to put on a town impression. Now I'm just convinced :/

[Bacde]

>.> Fine.

Prod dodge.
Bacde is too, well, bacde, to be scum. So I think he is likely town.

ty ty

[Bacde]

It's ok that's what I thought when she said it, too.

<3 jiffy

[Bacde]

Bacde, I'm hesitant to move you to my town pile this game. You have been playing like your town-self, though but there's something else there. Should Nacho flip scum though, it'll probably be enough to comfortably call you town

~Mara

are you scum?

thats the only "something else there" I can think of

[Bacde]

thor could be scum but if he is he hasn't shown it yet

[Bacde]

you guy!!! Nacho is caught scum and avoiding the thread. Why is he not dead yet?

you aren't even voting nacho?

[Bacde]

oh you are nvm

[Bacde]

lol @ Bacde not knowing I was voting Nacho

I coulda sworn I checked the VC like 4 pages back and thought you WEREN'T voting nacho

so this whole time I've been like "why is nero so vocally supportive but not backing it up"

[Bacde]

its likely thor is town considering that he would be willing to PL me and isn't finding me obvtown for some reason

[Bacde]

Bacde, no but I love how you posture that OMGUS

I wasn't posturing, I was asking a question

Mara you're slipping down my reads fast whats going on

[Bacde]

BTW Mara, it should be pretty clear that I'm not omgussing you.

It should be pretty apparent that right now I have two objectives:

1) Get scum-nacho lynched
2) Identify other scum before tomorrow

So when I ask you a question like "Are you scum?" and you respond with something like "no, but I can see you are posturing" instead of just "No, I'm not" it sets off my scumbells

[Bacde]

^^Hey guys do me a favor and lynch this

[Bacde]

so nacho is going to be the lynch d1

[Bacde]

If you can get the majority of the playerlist to lynch me out of spite, maybe. Otherwise you might need something real to kill me.

This is scum

town doesn't say "You can't PROVE that I'm scum, so you can't lynch me! nyah nyah nyah!"

this isn't town

this is scum

nacho is better at this game than this and he knows it, and we knows it. Lynch this dude

[Bacde]

1. He's not informed. The information he provided was useless.
2. You can't just say that this isn't my town play when you don't really know what the difference between my town play and scum play is.

town doesn't discredit people like this

nacho, why is it such a ridiculous claim for me to be able to tell the difference between your town play and your scum play?

[Bacde]

fuck you guys are gonna let scumcho right through your fingers

[Bacde]

Smurf you guys are gonna let scumcho right through your fingers

Link or restatement of your case on Nacho?

He's acting like

you

do when you are scum

you know, he's acting like an experienced scum player

his scumreads are few and far between

his only posts are purposely constructed to appear town without actually doing tough town work

he tunneled on the worst case I've ever seen nacho tunnel on in my life

and he was convinced about it

and now that no one followed him on the OS case, he is acting like it never happened

he isn't addressing me as though I have a real case because he wants to sweep this under the rug (and he knows I'm serious about this read and he knows that I can build a smurfing bandwagon by myself), yet he is addressing everyone else and their points

here's the thing--OS

COULD

be scum, but its something that Nacho hopped on extremely excitedly with no regard for anything else because he needs to latch on to SOMETHING to push to pretend like he is town

its the same way that in 1393 you latched on to AP making a small "lie" about whether he had read into your meta deeply or if he had skimmed your games--the point really doesn't smurfing matter that much but a scum will push it like dragon eggs because they don't want to have to think about the game analytically

also he proposed a massclaim on d1 for no reason and pushed that

nacho is being cheeky scum right now and people are letting him get away with it

[Bacde]

Nero Cain is trolling most of the time. Then he latched onto the third party thing, then he made fun of mollie, then he tried to bring as much attention to the situation as possible. It doesn't really seem like a particular strong scum strategy, but I sort of liked that he made an attempt to read the people he was pushing policy lynches on and is pushing a real life scumread instead of the people he generally finds scummy anyways. Town.

Well everyone with a brain already knows that I'm town anyways...I wouldn't call that an accurate description of my play. Mollie called me a SK, I asked why Mollie called me an SK. Instead of answering said question she gets stupidly self righteous. Now maybe being a moron is a towntell for Mollie but I neither care or want to waste time debating their alignment. And I do find it scummy and not pro-town for you to berate me over a valid line of questioning. What's even worse? You supposedly didn't have a scum read on me this whole time but were more than glad to argue with me.

I also wouldn't say thet I ever really "pushed" for policy lynches just that I wouldn't care if we utility lynched a few bozos.

please push nacho harder

[Bacde]

I seem to be pretty good at reading Bacde most days. He's probably town again.

First I want to say no, you've been faltering love <3

Second I want to say that you read me wrong in this game if you think you can ignore me and not get lynched

[Bacde]

Thor you are doing that thing where you read too deeply into my words

I'm speaking to you like a human being so just read my words for what they are and not what you think they are

No, nacho does not play to your "meta". But he is scum for doing something that made you scum in a previous game--pushing a shitty case that he should know better than to push

Yes I have seen Nacho play poorly as town, but this game isn't that. Nacho isn't playing poorly due to not having read the thread or anything like that, Nacho is scumming it up

Honestly, I would have done that push as town - he lied about his reasoning for suspecting me. That's a scumtell.

Your belief that you would have pushed that case to the same extreme as town is why you got caught so easily by Lord Voldemort in 1393. You were truly confident that you would have pushed that shitty case as a townie. That confidence caused you to push the case REALLY hard despite it not being that good, which is why LV could see that you were tunneling it beyond the extent town-thor would tunnel. Nacho probably believes that this OS case is something he would push as town, which is why he turned his brain off to push a shitty case before now he's realize "oh smurf smurf people are suspicious of me now what do I do"

Do I really have to explain to you why Nacho supporting a d1 massclaim fits in to the idea of him being cheeky scum?

[Bacde]

Thor cmon man I'm trying to reach out to you

you don't have to respond with dripping sarcasm to every single thing I say

I'm serious dude, I'm trying to invoke a town victory and if you can't see what I'm doing then you should sheep me or get out of the way

Also your point #5--no, AP did not flat out lie. AP might have exaggerated himself a tad, but he did not lie. You hopped on that in the way you did not because it was a case you'd push as town, but because you THOUGHT it was a case you'd push as town. That's why you got in trouble! I have caught many scum for pushing a case that

seems

like a good case at surface-level (because you technically caught someone in something that might be construed as a "lie"), but just doesn't

feel

right.

Nacho is doing the same thing. Trust me when I say this isn't nacho's town game. Nacho wouldn't tell me that my play is "good" in this game if I was tunneling on him-town (yet he did).

Its all the little comments that make him scum as well, in between the meat and potatoes of him pushing a shitty OS case, and supporting a massclaim

Such as him saying my play is good, such as him ignoring my points, such as him being a cheeky little scummer

The way you are using the support of a massclaim as a way to defend nacho reads townie to me. So tell me--why do you support a massclaim?

[Bacde]

My case is not a "meta" case

Its a "nacho is a better player than this" case

in addition to a

"I have caught scum doing the same thing nacho is doing" case

in addition to a

"nacho is making scummy comments and ignoring me in a scummy way hidden within all his most recent posts" case

[Bacde]

Bacde help me lynch Cephrir and I'll help you lynch Nacho tomorrow.

Majiffy, why are you convinced about Cephrir?

Just convince me that you actually think Cephrir is scum for a good reason and you've probably got yourself a deal

[Bacde]

Hey man thor asked me to restate my case so I did

no need to get sarcastic w/ me buddy boy its not a ridic request

[Bacde]

ugh Cephrir has been AtEing me recently and I'm a big fan

I'd still rather lynch nacho so I'm sticking here for now

[Bacde]

Thor I'ma be really satisfied when you flip scum regardless of nacho's alignment

[Bacde]

B&tB We can't worry about lynching nacho because of "what if he's town"

if he's town he's even more worthless this game because he's pushing stupid cases

I'm no longer going to worry about lynching my scumreads just because I read a stronger player as scum, I can depend on myself

[Bacde]

What did I do that was scummy?

What did you do that was townie?

[Bacde]

you guys like that? fight fire w/ fire when it comes to thor don't let him play you like that

[Bacde]

guys guess what

if we have to sit around with our thumbs in our asses until the deadline comes around and finally people are like "oh geez we need a lynch I guess I'll lynch nacho"

then I will still feel happy

so I see no need to do anything in this thread right now besides continue to push nacho

@Thor when did I say I can out-wordplay you? And when did that even become relevant to you being scum? As long as your MO this game is "defend nacho" and "not look for scum" I will continue to scumread you and probably get you lynched later this game

[Bacde]

Yes it was due to insecurity will you vote nacho now or are you going to continue to defend scum?

[Bacde]

I also never said you were town I said you were "likely town" based on the fact that you were willing to PL me and not just call me obvtown (which is a behavior I've seen you do as scum)

So unless you think that you not calling me obvtown is a

STRONG

reason to think that you are town (hint: its not), then you should be able to understand why my read on you changed quickly.

[Bacde]

I'm going to defend scum - your case on him is probably about as solid as your case on me, and thus isn't worth sheeping at this point.

no

my case on nacho is 1000x stronger than my case on you

that is something that should be obvious to you

its obvious to me--that's why I'm voting nacho over you

[Bacde]

Also, you should pay attention to how Slandaar does it - he's pushing the case about fifty times better than you are right now.

great! listen to slandaar and vote for nacho

I really don't care who you listen to as long as your vote is in the right place

[Bacde]

I'm going to defend scum - your case on him is probably about as solid as your case on me, and thus isn't worth sheeping at this point.

@mollie, thor likes to say cheeky stuff as scum right?

[Bacde]

Guys, if nacho was town, would his vote seriously still be on OS?

seriously?

[Bacde]

Guys, if nacho was town, would his vote seriously still be on OS?

seriously?

You are in an ongoing with me where you saw Nacho play.
I really wish I could ask you about it.
But I am fascinated at this level of awe for him considering you saw the same play I did.
It's annoying I can't press you on it either - because you are the one who feels fake here.

I feel ya brother

I really do

But I can only talk to you about this game in this thread and I'll tell you--I'm not fake. If you want to lynch a guaranteed scum, lynch AA9

if you want to lynch a smart scum who will work to win his team the game, lynch nachomamma8

if it makes you feel any better, my push on nacho actually comes from a distinct

lack

of awe that I have for nacho

Nacho is a great player of mafia and a previous-bacde would probably not have wanted to push a wagon on nacho because of the threat of "what if nacho is town"

recently I realized that I need to push my scumreads and not listen to others as much to win games--my own reads before they are manipulated by others are often pretty accurate

[Bacde]

@Thor what is your read on slandaar?

[Bacde]

@Thor, what is your case on Red Ryu? I don't want a link just rephrase it for me plz

[Bacde]

^^purposely written to make you not want to read it

shallow, and pedantic

lynch this

[Bacde]

what if I did read it nacho

you think you can read into what I say

and you think that you know how I am

and you think that I haven't researched your games

but you're wrong about me

[Bacde]

go on

[Bacde]

Because your "information" wouldn't have any significant effect on the game, so it made no sense to add from a setup spec POV.

If you thought OS was lying, why were you so intent on forcing him to out that he was lying?

Would it have been impossible for him to make this gambit as town?

[Bacde]

@Nacho what is your read on Slandaar?

[Bacde]

Town:
Bacde
AK
ArcAngel
Nero
CTD
Om/HD

Very Very Likely town:
B&tB
Eddie
Ryu
Mac

Probably town
Sean
Syry

Scum to varying degrees:
Nacho/Thor/Fuzzy/Ceph/Bulba

That scumteam doesn't feel right to me at all

honestly it feels lazy to me

[Bacde]

^^purposely written to make you not want to read it

shallow, and pedantic

lynch this

Seriously? It's not really that long, and he broke them up into several posts for your convenience. If you are having problems reading that, then you have bigger problems than your inability to play mafia well.

Which of your posting is better than mine? Enlighten me.

That's extremely defensive. It betrays a lack of desire to scumhunt or further discussion. What are your thoughts on Nacho's reads, other than yourself?

Uh, I actually read it. That doesn't mean that it wasn't purposely posted to be gobbeldy-gook that is annoying to read to a townie

its something that nacho does as scum

[Bacde]

Because your "information" wouldn't have any significant effect on the game, so it made no sense to add from a setup spec POV.

If you thought OS was lying, why were you so intent on forcing him to out that he was lying?

Would it have been impossible for him to make this gambit as town?

No, but the gambit was useless as town and so it was more useful to push him to reveal that he was lying and make him feel uncomfortable while he was doing it.

@Nacho what is your read on Slandaar?

Scum, but not confident whatsoever in the read at all.

So you never actually wanted a massclaim? It was just something you were pushing to pressure OS?

Also, why did you lie about having a "keyword" or something in your post

[Bacde]

And sometimes as town when my thoughts aren't pretty.

I'm glad that you are responding to me specifically now

we can build from this


Who are your top 3 scumreads?

[Bacde]

Desperado, DLG, Baby Spice.

convince me about baby spice

[Bacde]

Posting a bunch of reads with detailed reasons is not scummy. It is, in fact, the opposite of scummy, unless the reasons are bad.

posting reads w/ reasons is a weak town tell at best

and coming from nacho its a null

[Bacde]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25367

Meta her yourself. You'll see things a lot more clearly if you do that instead of having someone try to explain it for you.

I like your confidence

lets see if its in the ISO

[Bacde]

wrong link tho

[Bacde]

@Nacho what is your read on AA9?

[Bacde]

Ok, and now AA9 plz

Also, do you think Desperado is the only scum on your wagon? Or do you think scum is just playing well and there might be more on your wagon

[Bacde]

Town.

why

[Bacde]

Desperado would be the only scum on my wagon if Slandaar isn't also scum. AA9 is town because of meta for the moment. I'm not going to sell you on her being town because she's easier to read when pressured.

I have AA9 as scum because of meta

[Bacde]

and I have her as null. Not trying to be funny but she actually is null to me, hence why I said I'd be ok if we utility lynched her before lylo. Now if B&TB were to flip scum then I might consider an AA9 a scumbuddy.

my gut tells me that pirate mollie is town

[Bacde]

41 pages already..?
i am less then two days behind and i have hell to catch up again!!!!
Slow down ladies...

ok AA9 is scum too guys plz lynch this after we lynch scum nacho and then I get NKed for being too awesome

What? cmon Bcade, aren't you better player than this.. This is seriously low of you..even if you're scum.

This doesn't seem like a scumAngel post no matter what angle I look at it from.

What was interesting about this post is that AA9 posted later as though this post you quoted expressed that she believed that I was scum, when in fact it expresses a null read

[Bacde]

nice I didn't realize I was allowed to type in tiny font

<<< My official rule is that if you can read it, it's generally okay, but I prefer you to not go below 50, and--really--honestly don't like anything below 75. It's possible to read that small, but it's a pain to do. >>>

[Bacde]

Ok I've come to a decision

Nachomamma8 gets vigged tonight, no questions asked

But today we can lynch baby spice

I don't think anyone will disagree with lynching baby spice

[Bacde]

I mean I'm obviously more in favor of that plan, which is why my vote is still in the same place

I'm just trying to coordinate a lynch

But I feel confident that whoever I want vigged will be vigged

[Bacde]

I would not particularly care about that lynch although it seems kind of arbitrary.

I think you'll probably get more votes going for the guy who's actually posting though.

We don't know there's a vig or that he'll listen to you.

There are at least 2 killing roles

[Bacde]

actually I just reread BS's ISO and nothing really sticks out to me except this post:

Hmm.

I decided to check Nacho's posting history just to see what was happening, and spotted him browsing this forum.

Make of that what you will.

which I can't imagine making if I was town

[Bacde]

I don't know why you're so eager for a compromise lynch now

dont misrepresent my emotional state

I'm not eager for any lynch other than nacho right now I'm just trying to feel people out

[Bacde]

Bacde stopped pushing a sound meta case the moment he started arguing that Nacho would be a good lynch even if town

ok CTD is scum

this is the ONLY post that I made that could even be CONSTRUED as being similar to what CTD is saying that I'm doing:

B&tB We can't worry about lynching nacho because of "what if he's town"

if he's town he's even more worthless this game because he's pushing stupid cases

I'm no longer going to worry about lynching my scumreads just because I read a stronger player as scum, I can depend on myself

I'm not arguing that nacho is a good lynch if he's town

in fact, I believe the opposite

but nacho isn't a worthless player when he's town, and for some reason this game he's playing worthlessly

do you get the picture? There's a reason that I scumread nacho right now

[Bacde]

^^Scum also like to lead town

What is your point Hanzo_5?

[Bacde]

Bacde's evolving stance on Nacho doesn't sit right with me. I could pass his initial push off as him being overly zealous (which I don't find alignment indicative for a player like him), even though his argument was more "Nacho isn't playing like Nacho" than "Nacho isn't playing like town-Nacho" based on the evidence given. But that he then suggested that a Nacho lynch would be good even if he was town is outrageous. A good player that is underperforming can improve, it's a function of effort. His declaration that "Nacho is useless this game, he's a detriment to the town regardless of alignment" is so wildly beyond common sense it's not even funny.

The feeling I got is that Bacde sensed weakness in Nacho and wanted to lynch him simply because it looked feasible. It's like he's running a bet on whether he can D1-lynch him and tried to strongarm it with a kind of bravado I've seen from confident scum playing with people they're very familiar with before. That he's now easing up, "settling" for a Nacho-vig instead, fits with this: Nacho came back, started effort-posting and doesn't look like such a feasible lynch anymore. I strongly question the legitimacy of his Nacho scum read to begin with.

Urge to lynch rising.

you are making up and ascribing to me arguments I never made

it makes sense to me that you have a scumread on this imaginary player who is playing far differently than the way you've represented me

[Bacde]

Have you ever played with nacho before? He's not a useless player

There's a reason he's playing the way he's playing this game--he's scum

[Bacde]

If you think I'm trying to lynch sensed weakness then you are, frankly, retarded because I'm gunning for

nacho

right now

also, in the post where I suggested other lynches, I was trying to see how people would respond if I suggested alternative lynches. I don't see how bringing up the topic of alternative lynches automatically means that I am less interested in lynching nacho?

[Bacde]

@Pirate_Mollie nero is town enough for today

[Bacde]

naw, fuzzy hasn't been ignored. I's sheep that if I didn't want Nacho blood. What's your BS case?

There's not much in it. She's one of those weaker cases because it is more of my speculation from meta. She seems less worried, as I said before. More direct in targeting a lynch. She is constantly behind. Being behind is not overtly a scum tell, but when you're back on page 19 when everyone else is on page 30. I checked the time dates, and there's a two day difference, so... I understand legal obligations and all, which is why I didn't press it more.

She is also a lot more speculative on things and is not very aggressive. She comments on posts and all, yeah, but I didn't see much in the form of asking questions, making too many comments that aren't calling someone's read, etc. She voted for Ryu when his wagon was rising, but it IS interesting right now that she is on Ceph on her own.

hey you look town will you answer a question for me?

have you ever played with nacho before?

if you haven't, then just vote nacho please trust me here

[Bacde]

I mean its kinda clear to me that even though your heart is in the right place, your vote isn't

look at how immediately after you voted you got sheeped by ceph of all people

[Bacde]

Yes, I've played with Nacho before.

I also considered Ceph to be null, so that part isn't exactly an issue. His read overall has been a tossup for me. I felt he had good motivation in his posts, but Jiffy convinced me of a light for other posts of him, which is why he's null and not one way or the other. He showed a distaste for fuzzy when fuzzy made the unnecessary, and rather opportunistic pseudo-contribution, post, which I'm all for. Whether he would have voted if I didn't or not, I won't know, but I don't feel the sheep is explicitly a scummy sheep regardless.

Besides, we still have almost a week, so we have time. The fact of the matter is, I don't think Nacho is a good enough lynch at this point in time. His beginning was crap, but I like his recent posts, even if I don't agree with them.

<<< Actually, it's over a week--almost two weeks, in fact. Deadline for D1 was set at three weeks, not two, meaning you've still got a week and a half (12 days as of this edit) left. Deadline isn't next Monday, but the Monday after that. >>>

Nacho knows that his more recent posts are better,

that's why he made them

but nothing in his recent posts screamed town

AND YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY NACHO MAKES POSTS THAT SCREAM TOWN

the entire purpose of his "reads" posts was just to get more townreads from people not confident enough to lynch him

did you notice how nacho asked me if I saw a "keyword" or something in his posts? He was trying to act like he was confident that I wasn't reading his posts (even though I've been reading every letter). The entire way nacho is ignoring the wagon on him and ESPECIALLY ignoring me

SCREAMS

scum-nacho, and the way CTD is misrepresenting every aspect of my posts screams scum-partner

There's a reason nacho's play improved (only slightly) RIGHT AFTER I started this bandwagon on him for him having shitty posts. ITS. BECAUSE. NACHO. IS. SCUM.

PS--just wanted to add this in because I was thinking about how shitty CTD is at representing me. If I was ever "backing off" nacho, then why was I so insistent that he be vigged? And why did I never unvote him? Oh, I guess I was never backing off him in the first place

[Bacde]

if you literally have a townread on EVERYONE on the nacho wagon, its because nacho is scum and the scum don't want to bus their best player

I'm actually thinking that the scum AREN'T bussing since we have people like Thor, AA9, and CTD in this thread scumming it up and trying to actively prevent the nacho lynch

[Bacde]

WOAH WOAH WOAH

24 people is 5 scum, 6 AT MOST

where are you getting 7-8?

[Bacde]

Instead, he went for Desperado, who was rather in the shadows of the game. Seems like a strange way to counter-wagon as scum.

Would you have expected scum-nacho to have blatantly voted for his counter-wagon?

...Seriously?

You promise you've played with nacho? Because that is just something scum-nacho would never do

In fact, if he voted for his counterwagon, I'd see it as a TOWNtell because voting for a counterwagon is generally regarded as scummy (which nacho knows), yet if nacho actually believed his counterwagon to be scum and was confident enough to vote it I'd have been somewhat taken aback and perhaps have reconsidered my read

[Bacde]

are you classifying SKs or arsons or whatever as scum?

If you didn't know, I play on another site, which is where I get the majority of my experience. Over there, we follow the 25-33 rule, so 33% of 24 is 8. I figured that was our worst case scenario, but it was probably more like 6.

on MS the low number is more like 20% instead of 25%

[Bacde]

1422 is probably the best iteration of the case against nacho as of right now

other than that I'ma keep pushing it because nacho is going to be the lynch today unless someone scumslips

[Bacde]

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bus of Nacho before Nacho has even flipped?

fyi your scumhunting is bad because you have bad reading comprehension skills

I was suggesting the

exact opposite

. I was suggesting that NO ONE is bussing scumcho

[Bacde]

The Nacho wagon took off after Thor joined the RR wagon. If anything Nacho looks like a strong counter to RR. It's even lead by RR, something BCade says is scummy.

What did I say was scummy?

God damnit are you putting words in my mouth as well?!

[Bacde]

Are you seriously suggesting this is a bus of Nacho before Nacho has even flipped? Not to mention that anyone would ever bus this hard? =/
The Nacho wagon does have a lot of townreads on it, and the RR wagon really has the opposite. That's the most important point in its favor for me, but I'm still not convinced. What I am convinced of is that most of the voters on that wagon believe what they're saying, and maybe that should be enough reason for me to get on it as an admittedly bad scumhunter, but it still isn't. That's just not how I vote.

I was going to vote fuzzy eventually, but if there's going to be another vote on him then the second makes enough to actually be pressure. I probably should have voted earlier, I suppose.

I like all the replacements thus far but their day-to-day play will potentially be more telling. I always think catch-up posts are town unless they have everything ass-backwards

(see: Syry).

@Mollie: I was saying it seems like a playstyle issue.

wrt the bold: which ones of hanz posts do you like cos I think they are god awful. like hanz posts are ass backwards how are you missing this

yeah hanz posts do suck I'ma run an ISO

[Bacde]

actually I just reread BS's ISO and nothing really sticks out to me except this post:

Hmm.

I decided to check Nacho's posting history just to see what was happening, and spotted him browsing this forum.

Make of that what you will.

which I can't imagine making if I was town

@bacde

Care to clarify why town shouldnt do that? I dont see a problem with whistle blowing on the lurkers...

Does it look to you like Baby Spice was "whistle blowing" or does it look like Baby Spice was just throwing shit to see what sticks?

[Bacde]

I'm wondering if Hanzo is just hard to understand which might be the case

either way I'm happier w/ a nacho lynch

[Bacde]

Okay, so I read through Nacho's ISO and am not overly impressed with Bacde's read. However, something I want to address:

Well I'm not impressed with you thinking scum-nacho would have voted for his counterwagon as opposed to just uselessly moving his vote to a useless place and not pushing it

I do like how you are thinking out this game for yourself though, and definitely think you are town

[Bacde]

bc why are you ignoring what we are saying about hanz

I'm not

I don't think I've figured out what to think about hanz

plus I really want nacho lynched so thats probably motivating me to not look at hanz so much

I think most of your points about hanz are valid though

[Bacde]

More arguing. More scum reads based more on meta than anything. More tells on D1...

cos scum like to steer the game

@BATB

Leaders like to lead town. Counter point: Scum like to myslynch leaders. Are you making a point to not be lead by anyone? or just thor.

^^Scum also like to lead town

What is your point Hanzo_5?

@Bacde

My point: They pointed out a useless tell. I think the best I can do D1 is pick out what are clearly bs reasons a fluffy posts. And give my stance on them when I get around to it.

How are we gonna get anyone lynched with bs like that being the reasoning? How can I trust a town that would pkay into that BS? rhetorical...

I can see Hanz being scum, but I'm wondering if he's just being misunderstood. Such as here, his first post is like a "WTF? are you even trying to say?"

But when I asked him about it, he had a somewhat coherent point, at least I think he did

I think his point here was that "leading the town" is a null tell; this was in response to you saying "scum like to steer the town"

I'm not sure you were using "lead the town" as a scumtell, and I'm not sure his comment was relevant to our scumhunt--but was his comment really scummy? I don't think so

I think his tirade of "how can I trust a town who...?" is misguided but not necessarily scummy either

[Bacde]

@B&TB

I think its a useless tell because its null. Town or Mafia can try and lead the town. Its what leaders do. Its a leader tell. And since leadership does not define allaignment its null.

My question asked simply asks this. Do you not want a leader?

Then it asks if you do want a leader, why do you not want thor to lead you?

The second questioned is ignored if you prefer that no one leads.

@B&TB

Fair enough. In my experience the mafia would rather have the town pointing fingers than having a unified trust in individuals.

Thus my line of questioning sees what you think in comparison to me.

FOS the shit out of this

Put ur damn finger away. If your to busy to question someone your suspicious of then dont say your suspicious. Its more fluff. How about u try to get a read on me instead of tunneling thor. FoS for asking questions about ur weak points. Stop making weak points.

Anyways for now ur just as null as everyone else. D1 is lame lets lynch someone.

<<< Fixed quote tag. >>>

the quoted post at the top is slightly scummy imo, because I don't see his line of questions going anywhere

BUT, his mindset seems townie to me. He isn't interacting with enough players to my liking, but he seems to have a train of thought, and actively attempting to make a splash upon his entrance, and isn't backing down from his points. Also it does not look like Hanz is even suspicious of you, he was just trying to emphasize that he thought "leading the town" was null

I want to see more posts from hanz

[Bacde]

So from my POV this Nacho wagon consists of only townreads and it's on someone who isn't exactly a scumread from my.
Something is afoot here :/

Yeah, probably your "Nacho ... isn't exactly a scumread". Herp derp Occam's Razor.

Except I found the scum on the wagon.

I mean, this game has basically become whether or not Nacho should be a good lynch. The focus is completely on Nacho (who is probably town, actually) and nobody is really focusing on his attackers, or anyone else for that matter.

PEDIT: No fuck you Bulb is town omg I'll tell you why Bacde is scum in the QT.
VOTE: bacde

~Pertayter

why aren't you asking me questions or even pushing my wagon?

its looks like you just dropped your vote and are chilling on it

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

[Bacde]

Mollie, Bacde, I'm not screaming at you guys for being idiots this game because you do have a point because I'm not exactly happy with my reads yet. It's not that I'm lacking motivation for this game and it isn't that I'm being useless (that's bullshit, Bacde), but I definitely am not being as aggressive and on point this game because I just don't have things worked out yet. I have a pretty good scumread in Desperado, a pretty decent town core, but I don't feel comfortable with the game to the point that I usually do. Although, Bacde:

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

If I flip town, you're living in my scumlist for a while. You owe me that much.

oooh i'm scared are you trying to wager with me nacho

[Bacde]

I was thinking about it

then I realized I don't wager w/ scum

[Bacde]

tbh I was thinking about it though

[Bacde]

I'm down to be lynched tomorrow if you flip town though

[Bacde]

That's fucking stupid. I want you to follow my reads.

I'm sure you do

but its too late

I made post #1486

[Bacde]

The Nacho wagon took off after Thor joined the RR wagon. If anything Nacho looks like a strong counter to RR. It's even lead by RR, something BCade says is scummy.

What did I say was scummy?

God damnit are you putting words in my mouth as well?!

Thought it was you that said it. Will check when I get to a computer.

because voting for a counterwagon is generally regarded as scummy

It was even on the same bloody page!

The context of RR's vote didn't look like a "vote for a counterwagon" at all

Plus saying that placing a vote down on a counterwagon is only scummy because it underlies the survivalistic attitude of the player. And you framed it as "It's even lead by RR" which is NOT something that is scummy, so your post confused the butt out of me

[Bacde]

anyway guys we are lynching nacho and if he flips town (which he wont) we will lynch me next just so you guys feel confident about this

go go go

[Bacde]

getting scumcho lynched

you should know that I'm actually right

a lot

[Bacde]

@B&B I almost made this post in response to the post above:

If you agree w/ my reasoning, why do I need to explain nacho to you? Why not just vote?

but then I realized that by the term "granted" he didn't mean that he does agree w/ my reasoning. "granted" here means something more along the lines of "if"

I'm having a lot of trouble understanding this guy and I'm wondering if thats why you scumread him? I dunno is there something more scummy than this that I'm not seeing?

[Bacde]

So from my POV this Nacho wagon consists of only townreads and it's on someone who isn't exactly a scumread from my.
Something is afoot here :/

Yeah, probably your "Nacho ... isn't exactly a scumread". Herp derp Occam's Razor.

Except I found the scum on the wagon.

I mean, this game has basically become whether or not Nacho should be a good lynch. The focus is completely on Nacho (who is probably town, actually) and nobody is really focusing on his attackers, or anyone else for that matter.

PEDIT: No fuck you Bulb is town omg I'll tell you why Bacde is scum in the QT.
VOTE: bacde

~Pertayter

why aren't you asking me questions or even pushing my wagon?

its looks like you just dropped your vote and are chilling on it

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

Why did it take you like 4 pages to finally question my vote?

honestly I didn't really notice your vote

please don't be offended

[Bacde]

after a reread of page 59, I actually think the Om/HD hydra is town for the schizophrenia

it looks like a legitimate argument, not fabricated

[Bacde]

If you are town, do you know how stupid this is? You're basically saying you're willing to put town down -4 if you're wrong. Where's the town motivation in that?

Pride.

Does anyone else see how nacho makes a post like this, and then a bunch of townsfolk all say "WTF IT WAS PRIDE?! SCREW THAT! WE CAN'T LYNCH NACHO"

Trust me, nacho knows what he's doing, and nacho knows how to play scum

Guys, it wasn't pride

Pride has absolutely nothing to do with it

NACHO. IS. SCUM.

thats all there is to it

If ANYTHING, it has more to do with experimentation than pride, I'm experimenting with a new style

I like to call it "anti-scum to the extreme"

[Bacde]

Nacho isn't playing to "out his reads" or "find scum" this game, he's

manipulating people

(and he can do it with one word even as shown w/ the pride post)

that is not the way town-nacho plays

Look at these two posts intended to manipulate me using fear out of my push on nacho:

Mollie, Bacde, I'm not screaming at you guys for being idiots this game because you do have a point because I'm not exactly happy with my reads yet. It's not that I'm lacking motivation for this game and it isn't that I'm being useless (that's bullshit, Bacde), but I definitely am not being as aggressive and on point this game because I just don't have things worked out yet. I have a pretty good scumread in Desperado, a pretty decent town core, but I don't feel comfortable with the game to the point that I usually do. Although, Bacde:

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

If I flip town, you're living in my scumlist for a while. You owe me that much.

Will you?

Also, why has he forgotten about this:

That's fucking stupid. I want you to follow my reads.

If he wants me to follow his reads, why isn't he pushing them harder? If he wants me to follow his reads, why does he keep saying to me "No you have a point I haven't been playing as well as I'd like this game"

Guys, excuses like that are scummy on their own. But when he simultaneously says that he's unhappy with his reads, but ALSO wants me to follow his reads?

Scum.

[Bacde]

after a reread of page 59, I actually think the Om/HD hydra is town for the schizophrenia

it looks like a legitimate argument, not fabricated

How is a legitimate argument indicative of being town? Looks to me like they just don't agree on their reads (which according to other hydra players in this game is the norm).

what is the motivation for a scum-hydra to have an argument about their reads?

besides WIFOM-town reads from players like me

I mean he could be scum but its good enough for me to not lynch today

[Bacde]

I've seen scum say this when pushing town before.

I've seen town say the same thing when pushing scum before

[Bacde]

bulbazak one of these days we are going to agree about a single read in our games

like seriously, one freaking read

[Bacde]

reaction test

if you aren't trying to misrepresent my play, why do you keep doing it?

I never engaged people in conversation as a "reaction test", I was just asking about other possible lynches to feel people out

I'ma read the rest of your post now but I can already tell its all wrong :/

[Bacde]

oh snaps color me surprised I actually like a lot about this post

[Bacde]

WAIT WAIT WAIT

did OS claim that his informed townie fakeclaim was a "reaction test"?

[Bacde]

crap,

well now OS looks really bad to me

ok I need a tribal council right now:

can nacho still be scum despite OS looking really really bad (like really scummy bad)?

Survey says:

[Bacde]

multiball?

[Bacde]

@Bacde - I have heard you say that you 'always read Nacho as scum' so...why are we supposed to give two figs about the read this time? And, why are you so vibrant on a read you have self admitted to always having?

this time I'm extra sure

[Bacde]

I don't even care if Sry is scum, I like her posting style a lot.

Has anyone here played with Bacde sum before? Does he bus?

I've played with Bacde-scum before

sometimes he busses sometimes he doesn't

its not relevant to this game though, I'm town

[Bacde]

^^So your reaction test told you nothing, basically?

That whole post is IIoA except a few tidbits about RR, even though its never really explained if you think he's scummy or townie

fuck dude, if we really want to lynch scum maybe we should just quicklynch arcangel9 (who I'm certain is scum)

because I'm beginning to understand why nacho really didn't like this slot

Vig should take out one of nacho/OS and we should probably lynch AA9

what do you guys think?

how crazy would this be if both nacho/OS were on the same team, that would be crazy

[Bacde]

why would you recommend against that?

You've been playing in a somewhat unhelpful manner and admitted to not paying attention to this game

not to mention you just voted for the largest wagon in the game with a pretty lax explanation right after I turned the heat up on you

if you were town you'd be willing to be vigged imo

[Bacde]

WAIT WAIT WAIT

did OS claim that his informed townie fakeclaim was a "reaction test"?

WAIT WAIT WAIT...

You mean to tell me, that through your insistent tunnel visioning, you've NOT been paying attention??

^^So your reaction test told you nothing, basically?

That whole post is IIoA except a few tidbits about RR, even though its never really explained if you think he's scummy or townie

fuck dude, if we really want to lynch scum maybe we should just quicklynch arcangel9 (who I'm certain is scum)

because I'm beginning to understand why nacho really didn't like this slot

Vig should take out one of nacho/OS and we should probably lynch AA9

what do you guys think?

how crazy would this be if both nacho/OS were on the same team, that would be crazy

Have you hit China/the other side of the world/the Earth's core YET?!?! Come on, Bacde... I assume can you at least attempt to string together a compliment-able/legit argument to support your claim rather than just tunneling more.

can you at least attempt to string together a complete sentence to support your positions in the game?

oh wait, you have no strong positions in this game, at least none that are memorable to me

its easy to be a critic

[Bacde]

Unvote
Vote Nacho

Unvote

So, Nacho comes in and starts posting up. So, I'll back down for now. Oversoul, catch me up on this post please.

[...]

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

Fenix, are you scum w/ nacho?

[Bacde]

Were we to garner the support for another lynch, and provided they were a scum read of yours (such as OS), would you actually consider switching your vote, or would you be stubborn enough to stick to Nacho? I don't really see it with Nacho, and I'm not willing to follow your meta claim of him.

Here's my dillemma:

if I want to 100% KNOW that I'm lynching scum today, then we should lynch AA9

but I seriously doubt that an AA9 lynch will help us find other scum

plus, I'm like 99% sure that I'm dying tonight (if nacho is scum then I'm dead, if nacho isn't scum then I'm dead to frame nacho)

I'm not 100% on nacho, he's a good enough player that I dunno if I could ever be 100%

BUT I AM sure enough about nacho that IF he flips town, I'm willing to be lynched tomorrow

thats like 90-95%

plus a nacho scum flip will help us find other scum, such as Fenix. If nacho is scum then Fenix is pretty obviously scum

[Bacde]

Unvote
Vote Nacho

Unvote

So, Nacho comes in and starts posting up. So, I'll back down for now. Oversoul, catch me up on this post please.

[...]

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

Fenix, are you scum w/ nacho?

Point proven. Not only are you tunnel visioning so hard that you can't be legit scum hunting, but now you're trying to link me to Nacho because I unvoted him. Pathetic.

lol I like how you call me pathetic

it really makes me believe that you have a town role pm and are trying to help me see the error of my ways

no way are you just trying to protect your scumbuddy nacho

who you were willing to vote when the wagon was growing big but unvoted because "nacho started posting"

[Bacde]

^^Right? Who the butt says that?

I'm so down to lynch nacho and live in his scumlist its not even funny

[Bacde]

But ArcAngel isn't scum. I'm pretty sure about that. Besides, there's no need to lynch you in the event Nacho flips town. That would just add unnecessary deaths to our tally.

In another direction, you didn't really answer my question. If we garnered the support for a lynch on someone you have a scum read on that isn't Nacho, would you lynch them? Would you take even that "slight leap of faith" that they could be town, but you think they're scum? The issue I have with your reads is that I don't like how 99% of your vote is based on a meta of him, and that I don't think Arc is scum.

Prove to me that your read on Nacho is much, much more than meta and I'd consider it. Until then, I'm not willing to budge unless I have to settle for consensus.

yes, I would lynch someone other than nacho if we had to

I've already expressed that I'm VERY certain that AA9 is scum, and I would be willing to lynch that

I'd just rather lynch somewhere that I think will set town up for a victory by looking at associative tells

[Bacde]

@ thezmon

look at this post:

Nacho isn't playing to "out his reads" or "find scum" this game, he's

manipulating people

(and he can do it with one word even as shown w/ the pride post)

that is not the way town-nacho plays

Look at these two posts intended to manipulate me using fear out of my push on nacho:

Mollie, Bacde, I'm not screaming at you guys for being idiots this game because you do have a point because I'm not exactly happy with my reads yet. It's not that I'm lacking motivation for this game and it isn't that I'm being useless (that's bullshit, Bacde), but I definitely am not being as aggressive and on point this game because I just don't have things worked out yet. I have a pretty good scumread in Desperado, a pretty decent town core, but I don't feel comfortable with the game to the point that I usually do. Although, Bacde:

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

If I flip town, you're living in my scumlist for a while. You owe me that much.

Will you?

Also, why has he forgotten about this:

That's fucking stupid. I want you to follow my reads.

If he wants me to follow his reads, why isn't he pushing them harder? If he wants me to follow his reads, why does he keep saying to me "No you have a point I haven't been playing as well as I'd like this game"

Guys, excuses like that are scummy on their own. But when he simultaneously says that he's unhappy with his reads, but ALSO wants me to follow his reads?

Scum.

though this post CAN be construed as a "meta" case (because I emphasized that this isn't how town-nacho plays), it is ALSO a GREAT point as to why nacho is scum, regardless of his usual town play.

Why is he playing to manipulate people, instead of just outting his reads and explaining them and attempting to get others to follow his reads?

Also, why did he simultaneously say he is "not happy about his reads" but also demand that I "follow his reads"?

Those two ideas directly contradict. Would a townie have both of those attitudes? I doubt it

[Bacde]

^^I like this post

maybe you aren't scum with nacho

maybe

I'm still suspicious though

[Bacde]

fyi if you guys want to ask nacho questions and have him trip up on himself go for it

thats not my style of scumhunting, so don't expect me to do it

i just don't know the right questions to ask

[Bacde]

I still want Bacde lynched even if Nacho flips scum because Bacde being scum is still a thing.

~Pertayter

good luck with that if nacho flips scum

[Bacde]

counter bacde wagon go go go

[Bacde]

AA9 votes bacde in T-5

[Bacde]

Either Nachomamma8 is scum with Oversoul, or scum are pushing along the Nachomamma8 wagon to try to get Oversoul to live another day.

This is interesting and I hadn't thought of that

Spoiler: <<< Mod-edited-votecount >>>

Nachomamma8 - 10 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Slandaar, Desperado, Seanald, Oversoul, CrashTextDummie, BeautyAndTheBeast, Amethyst Kitty)

Bacde - 2 (Om the Destroyer, Bulbazak)

fuzzybutternut - 2 (thezmon221, Cephrir)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 2 (Kublai Khan, Thor665)
Red Ryu - 2 (Syryana, ArcAngel9)
Cephrir - 1 (Baby Spice)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
Desperado - 1 (Nachomamma8)

Not Voting - 2 (Hanzo_5, EddieFenix)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

Red Ryu is V/LA from Friday, May 17th until Monday, May 20th.

[Bacde]

Although why isn't nacho voting OS anymore?

And why wasn't he explaining why to vote OS to me better?

Them being scum together would actually make sense

plus AA9 looked townier

[Bacde]

or maybe scum are bussing nacho right now?

[Bacde]

Here's the thing

I really do believe Nacho is scum right now

and its in my win condition to push on people who are scum

I see all these other scumbutts everywhere else, I get it

but I don't want this wagon to dissipate and everyone to be like "well we wagoned him and didn't lynch him so he's probably town" because that seems to happen after a wagon breaks up

it has nothing to do with pride nacho, it has to do with playing this game as damn well as I want to

I don't think the lack of a counterwagon necessarily indicates that it is scum driven, logically that doesn't make any sense

Wouldn't there be townies who were somewhat good enough to notice someone else being scummy, and wagon them? Especially if the wagon was on a town. I think its more likely that scum don't know where else to wagon with the gusto that nacho is being wagoned right now

Also I want to add in that being lynched d1 is only an insult if you are scum--its actually somewhat of an honor if you are town