NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[ThAdmiral]

Hey I'm replacing in and....

Fucking 90 pages!!?!

<<< Sorry, shoulda warned you 'bout that. >>>

Um, it'll probably take me to the weekend to catch up. Anything really important I need to know now?

<<< Deadline is in six days, on Tuesday. >>>

[ThAdmiral]

I checked--we're the third-longest D1 ever on site, and counting. Yay, us?

Oh my god, it's still day one.

Ok if deadline is in 6 days, that might be a bit tight. I see that Desperado, penguin_alien and nachomamma are the three leading votees. Can someone/s be kind enough to explain the cases on each of them?

[ThAdmiral]

I literally don't have time to read this game before deadline. Someone just tell me who to vote.

[ThAdmiral]

@ os: I'm obviously not done reading through the entire game but I've been trying to keep up with current events.

Assuming you are town can I ask why you claimed 2-shot bulletproof (even if that is indeed your role?). If you claim 1-shot you could try and bait the scum or whatever to waste two shots on you, if you claim full bulletproof you would ward them from shooting you ever.

[ThAdmiral]

18. ThAdmiral - town

Hmmm?

It's because of my amazing contributions to the game obv.

Ok so I still haven't read the whole game, but I've read the iso's of the three main wagons (oversoul, nacho, desp) and here are my conclusions:

Oversoul

I actually like oversoul.
- he was calling a lot of people town, and I find town are more likely to do that. As scum it essentially narrows down the people you can vote, because voting one of your townreads looks real bad.
- yes his claim was

bad

, but bad doesn't equal scum. Especially the "informed townie" part. I don't see why more people didn't just say - well if there are ever three kills a night we lynch him, until then we'll judge him on his play (actually maybe people did, I don't know I haven't read, lol). In any case I hold that gambits are done more often by town all things considered. And with his bp claim he sort of has justification for it, although I certainly would have played it differently.
- then again I've seen bp far more often on scum, so that is the main point of contention for me

Nacho

- Well nacho also names a lot of people as town. So I guess townpoints for that.
- about half way through his posts and don't really get what the case might be against him. Is it because he was pushing for the massclaim? Mafia theory =/= scum so I hope that's not it. And it also better not because he pushed for oversoul's lynch so much early either - after all oversoul

did

lie.
- He seems to be looking for scum and town and posting pretty logically, although tbf I don't really have proper context for a lot of it.
- He makes a pretty decent case on desperado. I'll read desp's post first, but I am tempted to vote him.

Desperado

- I think his early cases are a bit forced.
- post 1501 tries to shut down a townread. I find scum are more likely to do this than town.
- I find it interesting that in 2140 he explains the case on OS and arguably soft pushes it, even though he is still voting nacho. (edit: he does vote oversoul later)
- he seems very quick to play down any cases or votes against him, claiming that they are vague or have no reasoning behind them when (as far as I can tell) that is definitely not always true.

vote: desperado

Definitely looks the worst of the three.

[ThAdmiral]

HEY EVERYBODY: LETS GET THE DESPERADO WAGON UP AND RUNNING AGAIN! FULL STEAM AHEAD!

[ThAdmiral]

Alright guise. Deadline soon means only 2 viable lynches are desperado and os, so get your votes on either of them. If you don't you suck.

Cases boil down to someone who claimed/gambitted poorly, vs someone who was actually scummy. You will be judged.

[ThAdmiral]

@ desperado: why don't you come to your senses.
Have you been out runnin' fences again?

[ThAdmiral]

@ desperado: on my phone right now so its hard for me to reply to you point by point but.

- your early cases were forced. One was on dlg and one on aa9. Really felt like you were stretching to find them scummy.
- you were arguing with bacde over one of his townreads. Maybe you had a point but I still fund that this sort of stuff is more likely to come from scum. Hence you were trying to shut down a townread.
- I explained why it was interesting. You were soft pushing a wagon you weren't on, essentially keeping your options open and furthering the cause of multiple (assumedly) town wagons.
- you said people had no case on you multiple times. Hard for me to link now but ill do it later.

[ThAdmiral]

Check out, for example, 2111.

[ThAdmiral]

ok so Red kills syr, but why does his team let him? not like Syr was a major player capable of forming a lynch on ryu to go through, and again Ryu was a pretty good bussing option, so why try and eliminate people who scum read him?

I don't know about syr. I mean there is probably a vig in this game, and while I don't think they killed syr it could have been a random vig or third party kill or something.

Um...Syryana flipped Friendly Neighbor, not Neighbor.

There's a difference.

~

What?

This is what Syryana flipped, not this.

~

So I check the wiki and I've never heard of this role before. I feel like a colossal idiot now.

Lol!
Although it is sad syryana died as that role. I really like friendly neighbours.

That being said I feel pretty good about ctd. I can see where he is coming from re: suspicion of neighbourhoods, and this seems like a genuine mistake.

Hmm...

Actually I'm going to claim now, because it could potentially put things in to an interesting light.
I am also in a neighbourhood with one other member. I'm not going to claim them yet, in case they don't want to be revealed. CTD's stance about their being two scum/town neighborhoods, one for each scumteam, did pique my interest. I've seen the like before, although in this case I think my neighbour is town. Would it make sense for two separate random neighbourhoods though, containing entirely town?

[ThAdmiral]

I'm at work and haven't caught up with early day happenings but I am also a member of a neighborhood.

Do you mean one of those neighbourhoods that has a nightkill? Because that's called a scum-team.

Actually I'm going to claim now, because it could potentially put things in to an interesting light.
I am also in a neighbourhood with one other member. I'm not going to claim them yet, in case they don't want to be revealed. CTD's stance about their being two scum/town neighborhoods, one for each scumteam, did pique my interest. I've seen the like before, although in this case I think my neighbour is town. Would it make sense for two separate random neighbourhoods though, containing entirely town?

Its possible for them both to be town

Mastin isn't a mod I would try to outguess

IMO in your neighborhood you are more likely to be scum since you replaced Hanzo_5 and are white-knighting for your partner

I know that mastin isn't a mod to outguess, but I figured I didn't really lose anything from claiming.
I don't know what you are talking about in your last line.

Just to understand. There are three neighborhoods?

CrashTextDummie - Slandaar
ThAdmiral - ???
Desperado - ???

Reminds me:
What do people (not just KK, but KK can answer too) are the chances that at least one, if not two, of the neighborhoods are town-scum neighborhoods? I personally would say the chances are pretty good.

I would agree. I think there is at least 1, probably 2 scums in the neighbourhoods.
At the same time it is probably not efficient to take potshots at random neighbors hoping to hit "teh scumz". But it's something to keep in mind for the future, especially in regards to hunting by poe.

I don't buy the vig claim either.

[ThAdmiral]

Still here, need to catch up on the last couple of days.

[ThAdmiral]

OMG how many thor/fullisade wallposts am I going to have to read? This game is already long enough!

oh great, and now slandaar is getting in on the act.

TOO.
MANY.
WORDS.

OK WHO WANTS TO TRUST ME ON THIS ONE SERIOUSLY

IF HE FLIPS TOWN THEN LYNCH ME IMMEDIATELY NEXT

IF HE FLIPS SCUM THEN LYNCH NACHO IMMEDIATELY NEXT

I'M 100% LETS DO THIS GO GO GO

VOTE: Thezmon

Um, alright.

vote: thezmon

actually post 3063 is enough by itself.

No, not really. I think you're town, though dumb and useless. I always have, and quite possibly will for a while. The fact that I presented an action to you and clearly stated that scum did it was to garner interest from you, as well as to see where your motivations lie since you're stubborn. You see, it's been debated, even here in this thread, that dumb/useless town can be synonymous with scum. It's a gray area, so I'm trying to discern between the two and make sure I am on the correct side of the spectrum.

What the bullshit is this?
This dude is caught.

WHAT THE FUCK WHY AREN'T PEOPLE VOTING THEZMON??!?!?!?!??!

ok they are finally starting to vote thezmon.

[ThAdmiral]

I got really excited when I saw ThAdmiral's neighbor claim, but Desperado claiming in suit muddies things again. I still think balance between the scum factions dictates an even number of scum among the neighbors, which probably means two and allows for an all-town neighborhood. ThAdmiral's motivation for claiming is confusing to me and bordering on scummy. He says he was intrigued by my argument of symmetrical neighborhoods and claimed to put "things in an interesting light", but he then went on to speculate that there was "at least 1, probably 2" scum in the neighborhoods, which kind of puts into question whether he

really

bought into the argument to begin with. I can see some town motivation in trying to make things more clear (though I could see infinitely more town motivation if the turn of events caused him to actually suspect his neighbor), but there's also strong scum motivation if he thought his neighbor might be spooked into claiming himself and decided to preempt that in an attempt to look pro-town. I'm gonna take a look back at Team Mafia to check where scum landed in the cascade of neighbor claims in that game, and go from there.

I did start to question my neighbor's alignment. Let me put it this way - I tend to think they are town based on what they have said in this game and in the neighborhood thread, but on a game theory basis if there were 2 neighborhoods it would stand to reason that they were both infiltrated by scum.

Now that we know there are three once again it is likely that 2 of them have been infiltrated by scum. I think we are agreeing on the main points here. I actually think all the neighbours should claim so it is all out in the open, especially since we have mostly claimed anyway. I'm not claiming my partner because, I don't know, I guess its sort of rude to do it rather than let them claim themselves?

fuck it. It's peregrine.

[ThAdmiral]

I think it was an ambitious fake-claim given the circumstances, but ultimately a poor one.

[ThAdmiral]

In multiball it doesn't mean much, nero.

[ThAdmiral]

I actually don't see what cephrir said that makes him scum.

[ThAdmiral]

Lynching Thez right now isn't a good idea whether he's scum or not. Someone vig him tonight. If he's lying scum, then he dies. If he's town then it means we're not wasting a lynch on a townie. If he got the BP role unknowingly, then he survives. If he actually did get the Friendly Neighbour role then we'll have someone able to confirm him as town tomorrow.

There's rather a few flaws in this plan, so I'll just say "no".

[ThAdmiral]

And the fact that the only reason he didn't want to claim his neighbor is because it seems rude is a bit irrational and doesn't really work from his mindset. If he's looking to catch all of the scum from the neighborhoods, why isn't he open about throwing his partner out into the wild with him in order to be judged with the rest of the town? THAT reluctance seems like he's not willing to draw Peregrine's ire at all, which makes a lot more sense than "oh I was just trying to be polite".

I guess I'm just more polite than you give me credit for.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's clear about yesterdays lynch is that thezmon was going down, and it was obvious that he was going down. The smart play would be to bus, and I think there is a very high chance that happened here. To add to this I believe that mafia are more likely to self-hammer if their own members are voting them already (I don't actually have any proof to back this up, but it's a hypothesis that I think would be interesting to explore - maybe I'll do that some time). Apart from that it would also make sense for any opposing team scum, assuming there is one, to get on - not only do they get "townpoints" for lynching scum, they also are able to push through an easy lynch.

As such here is the final thezmon wagon:

thezmon221 - 11 (Bacde, Desperado, Kublai Khan, Nero Cain, EddieFenix, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, ThAdmiral, Slandaar, Seanald, thezmon221)

From the list I can take myself off, as well as thezmon and eddie fenix.

That leaves:
Bacde
Desperado
KK
Nero
Nacho
Cephrir
Slandaar
Seanald

First off the list is Bacde. He is pretty clearly not bluescum, and while he could be redscum he has certainly earned a reprieve.

Desperado was someone who I was willing to lynch day one as I think he was the bets option out of the main wagons. I'd still be pretty happy to lynch him, but there are probably others I would lynch first.

Nero - Normally I have a read on nero one way or the other, but I don't really have strong feelings about him in this game. I mean most of his posts are quite short, which I guess is not that normal for him, but I don't necessarily think that is a scumtell. Having a look at his iso and there are a few things I noticed. In 467 he says: "RYU defending OS hard here...". To me that doesn't feel like something you'd say about a scumpartner. He also further argues with red ryu about stuff - I mean it could have been distancing, but I don't think it is. Yeah, he can get a pass for now.

Slandaar I actually think is town. I don't see the sense in a scum plan to tunnel town-thor almost the entire game, unless he thought he might have been opposing team scum. He was also one of the first people to push for a thez lynch day one, so he gets some points for that.

KK looks pretty bad to me. He voted red ryu earlier in day one without much explanation, and didn't really push it all that much, which could easily be distancing. He then is very happy to move over to oversoul, which he does push through to lynch. Day 2 he was reluctant to get on the thezmon wagon, debating it with Bacde for a number of posts. That being said he was one of the first to actually vote thezmon, but I still think this could be a bus vote.

Fuck it, I'll do nacho, ceph and seanald later. So much reading required!

I will just note, however, that the people who got off the thez wagon get townpoints for me. I don't see much point in trying to get off a wagon of a scumbuddy that is almost certainly going down. Therefore fullisade, amethyst and crashtextdummy get points.

[ThAdmiral]

Desperado was someone who I was willing to lynch day one as I think he was the bets option out of the main wagons. I'd still be pretty happy to lynch him, but there are probably others I would lynch first.

I will just note, however, that the people who got off the thez wagon get townpoints for me. I don't see much point in trying to get off a wagon of a scumbuddy that is almost certainly going down. Therefore fullisade, amethyst and crashtextdummy get points.

Please tell me more about how you're bullshitting everything

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your analysis is wrong ThAd;
Its not townpoints they should get but nonblue points.

You may think 'why would they move off a wagon not on their buddy as redscum?' there are many reasons mainly though you just need to realise redscum were hunting bluescum so if they were redscum who decided thez wasn't bluescum they would move off the wagon unless one of their buddies was in some kind of danger (not the case thez's days were numbered) afterall if they think thez is town they don't want to be part of what they think is a mislynch.

I do completely agree those who moved off are not bluescum though.

Yeah, basically every time I say "townpoints" I mean "non-bluepoints" but that is way clunkier and I couldn't be arsed changing it.

KK looks pretty bad to me. He voted red ryu earlier in day one without much explanation, and didn't really push it all that much, which could easily be distancing. He then is very happy to move over to oversoul, which he does push through to lynch. Day 2 he was reluctant to get on the thezmon wagon, debating it with Bacde for a number of posts. That being said he was one of the first to actually vote thezmon, but I still think this could be a bus vote.

I'm a forceful player. I could have easily killed the thezmon221 lynch if I wanted to. Instead I gave it life.

Are you suggesting that I'm bluescum because I voted-bussed one partner (Red Ryu), then power bussed another? For town-cred? In a likely multiball setup?

Either tell me this is what you're saying or get a grip and read this game. A lazy ThAdmiral is a scum ThAdmiral.

Yes, I think you may have powerbussed for townpoints.
And no, I'm way more proactive as scum.

Didn't see that before, but re:3229, yes, I'm ThAd's neighbor. He's town.

Something in your QT that we don't know about?

Yeah. The people we replaced had pretty much confirmed it before we even got there. I agree with them, so here we are.

^^

[ThAdmiral]

I don't understand how a QT that includes ActionDan, lurker extraordinaire, could possibly have convinced you of anything. Like, can you give me a general idea of what makes you view ThAd as basically confirmed? Convince me you aren't one blue and one red who figured out they were both scum and decided to work together, because that's what it sounds like if you won't clarify.

That would be fucking awesome if it were true. Little mafia splinter group! How cute!

Can't you just take our word on the matter and leave us be for now?

[ThAdmiral]

That would be fucking awesome if it were true. Little mafia splinter group! How cute!

Can't you just take our word on the matter and leave us be for now?

It would be awesome if you could actually be something vaguely resembling town in the thread.

But that takes so much effort...

I am trying you know, what with my recent reads and wagon analysis post. (I will get to the people I haven't iso'd yet)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

rena claim sounds reasonable

VOTE: Desperado

I would still lynch Rena. I don't see how a town watcher works within the setup when bluescum had a ninja.

What use is a ninja

unless

town has something like a watcher?

[ThAdmiral]

@ nero: why?

[ThAdmiral]

@ slandaar: so just to clear it up - I'm redscum, and haylen is town. Got it.

[ThAdmiral]

Wait, what is the case against me again?
That I came across odd when I claimed neighbor?

[ThAdmiral]

*sigh*

[ThAdmiral]

The case on ThAd is very simple; he doesn't consider redscum in his analysis.

Thats it, very simple, but very brilliant.

Do you think I'm that much of a fucking idiot that if I was redscum I would forget to pretend to consider them in my analysis? Give me some credit please.

[ThAdmiral]

*yawn*

Wake me when I get to -1

[ThAdmiral]

-2 close enough.

<<< Technically, at this point in time, you had seven votes and it is ten to lynch, so you were actually at L-3. >>>

I'm an x-shot vig. Haven't used any of my shots yet. Will be shooting slandaar or nacho tonight.
How does that dick taste?

[ThAdmiral]

I'm struggling really hard with ThAd's vig claim.

Really

hard. My most pressing issues with it:

1. Peregrine's whole "love at first sight in the pre-game" spiel. I can only conclude that ThAd or one of his predecessors claimed vig at some point in the neighborhood QT. Why? What did Peregrine/DLG do to earn that kind of trust?
2. ThAd's motivation to out the neighborhood. I thought it was odd to begin with ("I don't think my neighbor is scum, but I'm intrigued by the 1 scum per neighborhood theory, so I'm claiming to add an interesting twist to the game", paraphrased), but by outing himself as a neighbor specifically to fuel a "scum in the neighborhoods" argument, he put himself on a shortlist of potential scum, which seems really counter-intuitive if you're playing a power role.
3. ThAd's play today (and PV's by extension). He did

nothing

to stop the wagon on himself, barely any scumhunting (none after his wagon started getting steam), barely any defending. Pretty much "lemme know when it's time to claim" all the way through. It feels to me like he

wanted

to claim. He certainly didn't put any effort into protecting his role today.
4. The revolving door of players in ThAd's slot. This is kind of a meta argument, but it's really odd to me that two players replaced out of a very popular role as claimed. This is a very demanding game so it's possible that they were both just overwhelmed, but vig is about as low maintenance as it gets; just follow along and take your shots, no case-making required to get your suspects dead and an easy out if you get wagoned.

1 and 2 just plain don't make sense from a town point of view, 3 points towards ThAd being an SK with NK-immunity. 4 makes a lot more sense as well if he's SK (SK is always an uphill battle and requires a ton of effort in a game as gargantuan as this).

Bottom line, I don't think ThAd is town. All those propagating a "we should eliminate a NK" angle should take note. Vote stays.

I see that you are putting your hand up to die tonight. Excellent.

[ThAdmiral]

I see that you are putting your hand up to die tonight. Excellent.

Can you start being useful sometime soon?

Love,
Nacho

Nah, I think I'm going to coast based on my pr claim.

In all seriousness though I tried to be useful about 10-15 pages back with some wagon analysis, and that is when everyone jumped on me.

I see that you are putting your hand up to die tonight. Excellent.

WTF? CrashTextDummie is one of the towniest players and posted some good questions, and that's how you respond?

Sometimes the "towniest" players are scum.

I see that you are putting your hand up to die tonight. Excellent.WTF? CrashTextDummie is one of the towniest players and posted some good questions, and that's how you respond?

I really like this reaction.

Although I'm inclined to give ThAd a night, I'll vote his ass in a heartbeat today if he continues to threaten players I think are obviously town.

- f

Funnily enough I really wanted to kill you last night even though I think there is a decent chance you are town, just because you were spamming the thread so much and I couldn't be bothered reading you!

I'm probably willing to lynch AK

but I'm gonna wait til there's a few more votes on it so I can fit into the butter zone better

still I'd rather get nacho

I dunno I'm just sure about this

I'm pretty meh on the ak wagon as well tbh.

Fuck it, lets give the nacho wagon a real go.

vote: nacho

[ThAdmiral]

Ok so I planned on looking at nacho, ceph and seanald and I may as well do that now.

Nacho - red ryu and nacho argued, red ryu pushed the wagon on nacho pretty much all day 1. Although I have done that as scum partners before, I would say that gives nacho some non-bluescum points (<- happy slandaar?).

Seanald - hasn't really done or said much all game. Never mentions red ryu before day 2. Says one thing to thezmon day 1, answering a pretty neutral question. Pretty happy to lynch this guy.

Cephrir - Mentions red a few times day one, first null then leaning towards scum, but seems reluctant top put him as a full scum read. Day 2 puts a lot of effort in to looking at who interacted with ryu and how. He reads thez as leaning town day 2 which I don't really understand, but other than that his interactions look good - really hammered down on thez when it appeared he was lying, but then again scum would probably do that as well I suppose. Apart from anything else though I just like his analysis in general, I don't want to lynch him any time soon.

[ThAdmiral]

Amazingly suspect timing. When Amethyst Kitty gets 7 out of 10 votes and is clearly scum, you suddenly decide to start a counter-wagon. You need to bring something more substantial to the table than "meh" and "Fuck it".

Explain to me in one sentence why ak is "clearly scum".

counter wagons are leet bro.

Nacho - red ryu and nacho argued, red ryu pushed the wagon on nacho pretty much all day 1. Although I have done that as scum partners before, I would say that gives nacho some non-bluescum points (<- happy slandaar?).

Why are you voting Nacho if these are your findings? Nothing here suggests scum all it says is 'well hes probably not blue...'

At least try to pretend you are town ThAd.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not seeing scum-Mala replacing out under pressure based on my experience playing with her before. Which kills the burgeoning scum read I had there. And I hate the Nachomamma8 wagon, not least because of ThAdmiral's vote that he follows by saying there's nothing pointing to bluescum Nacho or showing anything scummy there at all.

I just don't buy that he's a vig.

VOTE: ThAdmiral

[ThAdmiral]

I don't like how ThAdmiral is just threatening everybody who questions him. I'm having a harder time accepting the vig claim because of it, especially since I don't think a vig. would be acting like this. It almost seems like cocky scum. Even if he is town, do we really want to hand a kill to someone this unstable? I mean he's already threatened to kill 2 top town reads simply because they looked at him the wrong way!

I'm acting. Like someone. Who doesn't. Give a shit.
Whether you think that is scum or town is up to you.

I see that you are putting your hand up to die tonight. Excellent.

I suggest you start working on your defense now if you want to go down this path, cause you'd be making a better argument for your lynch tomorrow than any I could make myself.

I have basically realised at this point that if I get blocked tonight or can't get a kill off for whatever reason I'm as good as dead. Either way I'm not living to the end of this game. If I don't get lynched the scum will kill me.
I guess you could say I am pretty fatalistic at this point.

@ThAd:

Why haven't you used any of your shots yet? We had some scum flips so I'm not sure why if you are a town-limited-shot-vig you haven't used it yet.

night 1 I'd only recently joined and didn't feel like I had a good bearing on the game.
night 2 I was tempted but decided to save my shots for when I had better leads. I figured my shots would become potentially more powerful the later the game goes, and I didn't have any strong scum reads anyway.

[ThAdmiral]

thad can you work on getting into this game a little more? i'll promise to stop being so condescending if you do.

I notice you aren't on the ak wagon even though it is your rival, so to speak. What are your thoughts on ak and the wagon itself?

[ThAdmiral]

I don't really care about the neighborhoods. For all I know you and Thad are scum together and are just claiming that you're a neighborhood.

That would be the best scum play of all time.

--~~--

Ok Imma try and sort out my reads.

Will not lynch:
pere
cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade

Happy to lynch:
seanald
slandaar
desperado
nacho
penguin

Will look in to:
haylen
aa9
ak

killing at night:
crashtextdummy

[ThAdmiral]

killing at night:
crashtextdummy

Why?

Honestly I'm leery that everyone thinks he is town (even though I used to). Looking back I don't see much to imply he's as towny as everyone says he is.

--~~--

Seanald wagon seems good enough for me.

vote: seanald

[ThAdmiral]

@Thad

:Are you able to not shoot CTD tonight if that's the condition for you not being lynched today? If it comes down to it, running Thad up until he agrees to this would probably be worth it. Everyone else, don't end the day until this has been discussed.

What would stop me from saying I won't shoot him, and then shooting him anyway?

[ThAdmiral]

Nacho's Nero case is awesome. Nice catch on the D1 multiball comment in particular. Sheep him.

I'm not convinced. I think in large games it is not unusual to assert it might be multi-ball.

That being said I don't see why nero is being so defensive, and am looking forward to his response to nacho's case.

[ThAdmiral]

Looks to me like caught scum who doesn't know what to say

So you think Sean is scum but you join his counterwagon? Gotta love that chain lynching.

You are complaining about nacho misrepping you, but I think you are doing the same to desperado here. He had moved off the sean wagon well before he voted you, saying that he was unsure about it since none of his townreads had gotten on (4106). He then voted and unvoted ak before voting you later.

In fact desp has actually been looking good to me lately, I might have been wrong about him.

[ThAdmiral]

*swish* CTD wins! More Nero votes or an en-masse switch back to Seanald, please. They're both scum.

I'd prefer the en-masse switch back to seanald, but I'm actually ok with either wagon at this stage.

[ThAdmiral]

Vote Nero Cain

Okay, here's the plan. I'm assuming that town has a protective role of some sort. What I'm asking is that CTD be protected during the night phase, since he is essentially def. town, and we'll need him in the upcoming days. With that, the ball is in your court ThAd. If you really are the vig., you should know that this upcoming night phase is likely to be the only one to prove yourself. You can shoot at whoever you think is scum or is harmful to the town (although it might not hurt to ask for suggestions from the town itself, being that you outed yourself and all), however, should you aim at CTD, you will be wasting your shot. Anybody else is okay (even me), as there is enough contention with the rest of the player list as to gain useful information from a flip.

CTD, I'd still find those reads/final thoughts useful, just in case. Should the wagon get to L-1, I'll try to keep the hammer off long enough for you to get as much information as you want out. If anybody quickhammers with this in mind, I will make it my mission to lynch them.

Don't try to direct night actions. I think Nero might be right about you, you're a bad egg.

Nero you're town aren't you?

[ThAdmiral]

Explain to me the ctd town case.

[ThAdmiral]

also in case I didn't make myself clear in my above post

hi thad hi

have a seat

This looks scary...

@ thad

who is in your town pile. I would like to know plz.

quite a few actually:
peregrine
cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade
nero
desp

[ThAdmiral]

who is in your town pile. I would like to know plz.

quite a few actually:
peregrine
cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade
nero
desp

okay so will you consider from us on who to nk?

also I promise to use padded handcuffs

The padded handcuffs sounds nice, but I don't get what you are actually asking me here.
Do you mean like "are you willing to listen to us who to nk?".

Explain to me the ctd town case.

1.) Although I disagreed for his call for a mass claim, he used the information from the discussion to scumhunt and get reads, which I have a hard time believing scum would do.

2.) His reasoning for outing his neighborhood due to Syryana's flip, and the subsequent embarrassment, read as genuine town motivation. He sincerely thought he was doing the right thing for the town. There was not the slightest hint of insincerity in what he said and how he did it.

3.) He has been actively and genuinely scumhunting. Reading his posts, I have no doubt that they are town motivated and that he wants to actually find scum.

CTD-scum case. Go.

He might be scumhunting. Scumhunting the other team. Amirite?!

@ thad

who is in your town pile. I would like to know plz.

quite a few actually:
peregrine
cephrir
kk
bacde

bulb

ffulisade
nero
desp

Don't try to direct night actions. I think Nero might be right about you, you're a bad egg.

Clearly he's not even paying attention to what he's writing himself.

Yeah, I just copy-pasted that from an earlier post. Take bulb off there.

I could go for lynching either seanald or bulba

probably bulba has a higher chance of flipping maf though

Lets do it, bulba wagon is a go!

vote: bulba

[ThAdmiral]

^^ fuck is all that?

[ThAdmiral]

That vig pool is absolutely awful

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

Don't worry, I won't be using it.

[ThAdmiral]

^He says he copy/pasted from an earlier page, but as you can see above he added Nero and myself to his town list. It was clearly meant to be updated list, and it hadn't even been ten posts since he told Bulb not to direct his night action. I don't buy it.

Notice how your names are both at the end? Yeah, that's because I added you and didn't edit the stuff that was already there. Pretty simple really.

(Also, omgus can be a scumtell, depending, and in this case, with these wagons where they are, I think it is. There's also the aspect where you're scum so I tend to interpret additional actions as scum motivated)

If you're planning on fake claiming cop, it wont work. Insane cop is not a normal role.

WTF is this?

This is like a scumclaim.

[ThAdmiral]

Notice how your names are both at the end? Yeah, that's because I added you and didn't edit the stuff that was already there. Pretty simple really.

Ever the delightful mystery you are:

Will not lynch:

pere

cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade

quite a few actually:

peregrine

cephrir
kk
bacde
bulb
ffulisade
nero
desp

Pretty simple indeed.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ThAdmiral]

I shot bulbazak. Draw what conclusions from that you will.

[ThAdmiral]

According to mastin's flavour text I crept in to bulbazak's house and shot at a body in his bed, but it was dark so I couldn't be sure what I was shooting.

[ThAdmiral]

+ there's atleast one scum in the neighborhoods and Slandaar makes a good bet. CTD might be scum afterall. He's ignoring discussing his neighborhood big time.

He uses the neighborhood spec to implicate CTD as scum should Slandaar flip town. This is essentially setting up lynches.

True, but at the same time he might be right.

I was pretty bullish about the fact that I was going to shoot ctd last night and I was blocked. I can only assume I was blocked by the mafia - in fact I was blocked from being investigated as well, what role does that? - why would they stop me from shooting unless ctd was scum?
This is, of course, a theory filled with holes, but it deserves at least some consideration.

Seriously I get really annoyed when I invest part of my emotionality into a post and all I get are responses like "logical fallacy" or "AtE"

Its like, did you seriously respond to me with THAT LITTLE effort and just completely ignore the SUBSTANCE behind my post?

Its ok bacde. I believe you.

FFS

someone give me someone to sheep who isn't Nacho or Bulb or Nero or Ffery/mollie or Bacde

Mala is out of commission for a while so...

You might have to compromise on one of your reads (preferably bulb or nacho). Unless we could agree to lynch seanald. I'd still be up for that.

@ ceph: can you remind me of the rena case? Is it essentially 4593?

[ThAdmiral]

ThAd, why did you opt to shoot Bulbazak?

Because I think he's scum. Plus he was the other major wagon yesterday and would have provided the most associated reads due to people for and against his wagon.

[ThAdmiral]

Was less than pleased with QT last night. Bulba was not my first choice for a bullet.

But, we are now divining the setup to be 2 scumteams, each with a roleblocker, that each managed to block a PR without doubling up on either?

I think that's stretching it somewhat.

Vote: Nachomamma

ThAd, possible suggestion for next time you take a shot.

Don't discuss your target on the QT.

I have a bad feeling about Perigrine.

- f

Yeah I didn't just in case. Well I started talking about potential targets, then stopped.

anyway

vote: bulb

[ThAdmiral]

I don't really like this. Thad calls Bulb scum, I ask him why he's not voting and then he votes?

People often call me out on stuff like this - they say "I'm trying to appease". Do you seriously think I am trying to appease people in this game?

[ThAdmiral]

Thad, did PV ask you who you wanted to shoot?

Sort of. He said who he'd shoot, then I gave a shortlist of people I was considering and then he asked for what my main reasons were. I didn't respond to that, you know, just in case.

[ThAdmiral]

Prod dodge, will get on tonight.

--

This is a reminder from the mods that prod-dodge posts violate the spirit of the rules wrt activity and are likely not accepted as far as prodding is concerned.

-AP

[ThAdmiral]

@ human destroyer: so you want me and peregrine lynched. Do you think that we are scum that claimed neighbor together - therefore making us possibly the dumbest pair of scum-partners ever to play mafia? Or do you think we are two scum from opposing factions, forced to live together in a neighborhood like the original fucking odd couple?

[ThAdmiral]

I don't really care about the neighborhoods. For all I know you and Thad are scum together and are just claiming that you're a neighborhood.

That would be the best scum play of all time.

@ human destroyer: so you want me and peregrine lynched. Do you think that we are scum that claimed neighbor together -

therefore making us possibly the dumbest pair of scum-partners ever to play mafia?

Or do you think we are two scum from opposing factions, forced to live together in a neighborhood like the original fucking odd couple?

Sarcasm

[ThAdmiral]

I don't really care about the neighborhoods. For all I know you and Thad are scum together and are just claiming that you're a neighborhood.

That would be the best scum play of all time.

@ human destroyer: so you want me and peregrine lynched. Do you think that we are scum that claimed neighbor together -

therefore making us possibly the dumbest pair of scum-partners ever to play mafia?

Or do you think we are two scum from opposing factions, forced to live together in a neighborhood like the original fucking odd couple?

Sarcasm

Bullshit.

Really.

Read the first post, have a look at the laughing smiley and try again.

[ThAdmiral]

I did read the first post. I was there, and I didn't take it sarcastically at the time at all.

And why would that make you dumb mafia? Has anyone indicated they'd be interested in lynching within a neighborhood that already has a scum flip from it?

The location of that smiley does not imply sarcasm.

Even if you're town I think you're bullshitting this to sound better.

Well it fucking was sarcasm, I don't really know what else to say here.

Wait. Let me get this straight - you think I was actually saying that I believed 2 scum from the same team claiming neighbor would literally be "the best scum play of all time"?

"THE BEST SCUM PLAY OF ALL TIME"

come on

[ThAdmiral]

could someone be an angel and give me the neighborhood pairings?

As far as I remember its

ctd/slandaar
desp/seanald
me/pere

[ThAdmiral]

could someone be an angel and give me the neighborhood pairings?

Slandaar/CTD

PV/ThAd

Desperado/Seanald



Nacho:

Nacho, how strong is your PV scumread on a scale of MasterMew to RayFrost?

@Naco: Thoughts on Nero?

Lol didn't see this last page.

[ThAdmiral]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak

ThAd goes tomorrow.

goes where?

[ThAdmiral]

I'd be down to lynch rena if things go that way.
Just sayin'.

[ThAdmiral]

Would like to hear a neighbor-scum scumlist and a clean-neighborhood scumlist from everyone.

And BOOM does the dynamite.

Thank you all for your participation.

I now leave you all back to your regularly scheduled tunneling/lurking.

Alright I'll do it.

If the neighborhoods are suspect, that leaves 1 (less likely) or 2 scum in
13. Desperado-neighbor with Senald
17. Seanald-neighbor with desp
2. CrashTextDummie-neighbor with dead town-Slandaar
18. ThAdmiral-my neighbor
5. PeregrineV-Me-neighbor with ThAd

Seanald is the top pick here, and then you and ctd are pretty close for second choice.

If the neighborhoods are all clean, then that leaves 4-6 scum in
3. Cephir
4. Nachomamma8
6. Nero Cain
7. Bacde
9. Bulbazak
14. penguin_alien
19. Haylen-TWF
21. Amethyst Kitty
22. ffullisade
23. Human Destroyer

Is this everyone? I see for example rena isn't here.
Anyway of this list I would say: bulb, hd, penguin for suresies, and throw in ak and haylen to round out the list. Nacho is also a maybe.

[ThAdmiral]

*I do not like his hardcore buddying of the CTD

I haven't been buddying up to CTD. This is just mudflinging.

There was definitely that one time when you were like "don't shoot ctd, shoot me instead". I think that would count as buddying.

Come on that argument is patently stupid. If you're looking for a utility lynch (ignoring for the time being that he's scummy as hell) look no further than Seanald.

Still down for this too.

pere's 5293 is good.

PV, if you think AK is scum and killed Thor + Khan why do you think Bulb is town for defending her? + Bulb as been all over the place with his AK read.

You don't think scum defend each other like that?

This is good too.

Prefer Rena lynch to Bulbazak right now, although I would go with Seanald over both. Actually,

VOTE: Seanald

If anyone has a town read on him and wants to dissuade me, have at it.

This is a really strange post in context. The only wagon with more than 1 vote other than Bulba's is Rena, who you would prefer. But you put another singleton vote on Seanald.

He's been flying under the radar pretty much the whole game. Scum or pr is my guess.

[ThAdmiral]

ThAd, I'm Haylen. I switched accounts over 100 pages ago.

If I'm no lynched today: hey dude, if you're a town PR who blocked me, don't do that again? x.x I'm pretty sure KK targetted ThAd anyway and thats why neither of us could action.

Ok Hi haylen.

And that's not how jk's work.

/confirm

Hey All! Lemme have a chance to look at things tonight and I'll post my reads as soon as I can.

See in you about a year then!

[ThAdmiral]

/confirm

Hey All! Lemme have a chance to look at things tonight and I'll post my reads as soon as I can.

Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:32 pm

Well I read through most of the thread and I actually agree with my predecessor's reads. Rena thad and nacho look scummy. AK and desp are null to scum. I know bulba is at L-1 but I'm not sure I want to hammer. If we reach deadline I will hammer but for now I feel he's null. If you have a specific person on whom you'd like me to give specific reads let me know. I'll write more once I'm on a computer

Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:31 am

I find it very hard to believe you read through most of the thread in that time. Lets assume it takes 5 minutes to read a page. 216 * 5 minutes = 1080 / 60 = 18 hours.
The difference between your two posts is only 16 hours, and I find it

slightly

hard to believe you were reading the entire time.

I mostly think Thad is scum for his fakeclaim.

Nacho is scummy for trying to push lynches, like the latest one:

PV you wanna vote Rena?

If Rena flips town like she claimed, I'm putting my vote here tomorrow.

This guy is a scream. We should keep him around for his entertainment values.

[ThAdmiral]

Thinking about it I agree with ctd that bulb should be the lynch over rena today. We can go after rena tomorrow if we must.

[ThAdmiral]

Desp, why not vote for Sean today?

Because everything Rena has said today has d fake/like she isn't reading the thread, despite her having an extremely powerful role that entirely depends on her ability to read the game and predict the scum's behavior. Her posts don't give any indication that she's capable of that, or even interested in doing so...which means she's faking it.

A role is only as good as the player. This player has no clue how to play this role, so she's playing it as vanilla. As I have said already.

To be fair if you are telling the truth about your role watching me was the right play.






Anyone up for lynching human destroyer instead?

[ThAdmiral]

So we're going all the way back around to seanald?

[ThAdmiral]

I shot hd last night. I was blocked again, obviously, but this time it didn't cost me one of my x-shots. So I guess I was blocked in a different way?

[ThAdmiral]

Yeah there pretty much has to be one scum out of ctd/pere.

[ThAdmiral]

You think he's red scum Bulb? Because I'm pretty sure I was wrong about one of CTD/ffullisade and that they are red scum

I think he's the last blue scum hiding in the neighborhoods.

Why do you think mafia are two teams of three?

[ThAdmiral]

Yeah there pretty much has to be one scum out of ctd/pere.

and his name is pere!

Honestly I think it could go either way.

also why did baezu sub in if all he is going to do is immediately go on v/la and try to lurk out the rest of the game?

no

bacde wasn't scum, trust me

The fact that it is bacde's slot is the only reasons I'm not voting for baezu right now. He has been terrible.

ThAd.. Why don't you think there are two teams of 3 for each mafia?...

I think if you take crosskills into account two teams of 4 wouldn't be unreasonable.

Paraphrase the conversation please

....

....

....

OMG that is a complete misrep. I didn't write any dots!
Seriously pere do you think I have no reason to think you might possibly be scum? Do you think it would be wise or unwise of me to discuss nightkill choices with you (not that it makes any difference since I keep getting blocked).

[ThAdmiral]

C'mon guys

Get towncred

Jump on the PV wagon

All aboard!

Alright

vote: pv

Pretty terrible post. We've firmly established that there's a scum roleblocker.

So wait.

Not only did they block ThAd every night, they somehow managed to

a) know he was a vig before he claimed it (didn't he claim like Day 3 or something? I could be wrong on this)
b) roleblock Rena at the same time for, at the very least, Night 3

I chose not to shoot nights 1 and 2 you dullard.

"ThAd is town because there is a scum roleblocker" isn't an argument.

Especially when someone else has claimed roleblocked on the same night as them.

yeah

and I told him I wanted to talk to him and he never responded

VOTE: thadVOTE:

Well you could have, you know, asked me a question or something.

[ThAdmiral]

The case is, basically, that it makes sense for there to be more scum among the neighborhoods.

[ThAdmiral]

The case is, basically, that it makes sense for there to be more scum among the neighborhoods.

That still doesn't explain why PV is more likely to be scum than CTD.

The case is, basically, that it makes sense for there to be more scum among the neighborhoods.

OK, but see, Desperado thought his neighbor was scum for specific things, the case in #4038 for one, the change between his scumhunting in the QT N3 and his D4 activity for another. ThAd, as of #4503, PV was a town read for you. He moved into possible scum after your first claimed failed vig shot, but you said you stopped talking about targets with him during that night. At the time, you said your failure to hit meant you were likely blocked and you figured scum blocked you to keep you from hitting CTD. Since if you're telling us the truth in hindsight it's more likely that your target was protected, I can see where you no longer have CTD above PV as scum per se. But nothing you're saying explains why you want PV lynched over CTD or Desperado.

P-edit: ...or, what Bulbazak said.

If pere isn't scum we kill ctd. Simple.

[ThAdmiral]

So why PV over CTD?

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'm going to answer it anyway. From my perspective at least.

Why pv over ctd? Because he is more likely of the two to be lynched right now.

[ThAdmiral]

Whenever I see your name I think "baezu sounds like bee zoo" and then I think about, like, a zoo that is entirely dedicated to bees.

Hell I'd pay to see that.

[ThAdmiral]

And they can sell bees in the gift store!

[ThAdmiral]

Ok I'll make it simple for everyone. Pv or me.

Either way I win because I am getting to the point where I don't care about this game any more.

[ThAdmiral]

how about this - if you help me lynch pv I'll actually try tomorrow.

[ThAdmiral]

how about this - if you help me lynch pv I'll actually try tomorrow.

you seem awfully confident you won't be nked

Why would scum bother when they can just keep blocking me and let you guys lynch me?

[ThAdmiral]

Ok I'll make it simple for everyone. Pv or me.

Either way I win because I am getting to the point where I don't care about this game any more.

So, scumhunting in thread is zero.

Scumhunting in QT is zero.

Effective vig shots taken is zero.

Actual scumreads is zero.

Fucks given is zero.

You win, I'll lynch you.

Vote: ThAd

YES I WIN!!!

[ThAdmiral]

as much as I support hd dying we really should be lynching out of pere and ctd (and admittedly myself).

[ThAdmiral]

There's almost certainly 1 scum among the three of you. There are between 2 and 4 scum among everyone else. If the number is 3 or 4, we're actually better off not lynching a neighbor.

If there are 2 though, we'd probably be getting the last blue scum by lynching a neighbor AND have a higher probability of hitting.

Meh.

Oh wait, it's a push if there are 3. Still, given that I'm reasonably certain all the scum are in pv/thad/baezu/hd/ak, I'm not that worried about it.

But from my perspective, since I know I'm town, its a 50/50.

[ThAdmiral]

What do you think of my PoE?

My gut tells me you're right. But my liver and both of my kidneys are trying to tell me that pv is the scum. I don't know who to believe!

But from my perspective, since I know I'm town, its a 50/50.

so why PV?

See above.

Btw my lungs are split on the issue.

[ThAdmiral]

Bulbazak, why does your PoE get you CTD instead of ThAd?

Desperado is essentially conf. town, since I don't see the only neighborhood scum from both teams being in a neighborhood together. ThAd has claimed vig., and I believe him, since I can't see scum acting the way he has. The "I don't give a crap" attitude is more indicative of town in this instance than scum, as I would think scum in his position would be more compliant with the town. That leaves PV and CTD. As I've said before, I can't see one scum team being given such a huge advantage over the other, which is what being paired with a vig. would be. Anybody who wants to explain PV-scum to me needs to explain that. Plus, I just like the idea of 1 killer per neighborhood representing each team (both scumteams + town). That leaves CTD. I'm even more confident in this given CTD's actions yesterday concerning my wagon. He was really trying to push it through as quickly as possible. He probably knew that once I died, my line of inquiry died with me, and as today has shown, even with acknowledgment that scum is likely in the neighborhoods, the majority of the town wants to hunt elsewhere.

This actually makes a lot of sense.

vote: ctd

[ThAdmiral]

So are we ever going to come to a consensus?

Maybe an interesting question would be who out of me/pv/ctd would people be happiest to vote. I'm interested to see where people stand on that, although a few have already made their stances clear.

(I'm for ctd at the moment btw)

[ThAdmiral]

I like your reads bulba

[ThAdmiral]

CTD is the play today people. HD is a bit of a compromise lynch.

Even if he flips town, which I hope and trust he won't, you know the other neighbor scum has to be out of me and pv making it a 50/50 shot. And as Nacho pointed out if he does flip scum pv and I become semi-confirmed.

[ThAdmiral]

Gg blue man group. I knew you were scum penguin alien you wily bastard, but excellent work sticking it out!

Shout out to my boy pere: I may have doubted you at one point but you were a good neighbour and you only just fell short at the final hurdle.

Huge props to mastin for maintaining a great game with decent activity throughout (even though I had my gripes at the time, lol!). Any large game that gets down to 3 man lylo is in my opinion a roaring success.

My run of being shit as vig continues...