MICRO 172: DRAGON BALL Z [TOWN WIN]

[DoctorPepper]

/confirm

[DoctorPepper]

Game started already? Cool

VOTE: fferylit

[DoctorPepper]

Well, a lot of people dont knownthat it started so yeah

[DoctorPepper]

Bacde, is that a serious vote? Or RVS.

[DoctorPepper]

Prod dodge, i will travel today and will only be back at night. Will catch up to the game later

[DoctorPepper]

As for me not commenting on whats happening now, I live on a different timezone, so Inwas asleep while everyone was being active

[DoctorPepper]

Back, here are my thought so far.

So the most contentious issue was the whole argument of TIP and Ghostlinn. Uhm I'm actually not sure who to think is scummier here as both players have done scummy things in my eyes. First, this has been mentioned before but TIP fillers a lot, some may be attributed to the fact that the game has just started so that makes sense for some posts, but I think RVS ends when someone makes a non RVS vote, like what Bacde did (funny, Bacde always ends RVS). So instead of answering accusations, he RVS's. plus Bacde mentioned that his more recent posts have become less filler-y but his last post was uhm pretty useless, like something that should have been asked pre game and not in the middle of the argument. Second is banking on the scum slip. While yes, there is uncertainty of the st up, however in a nine player scenario, more often than not we have a 7town 2scum thing going on. The chances of having more than 1 more anti town player like a third scum are low cause a mislynch would be automatic lylo. And wasnt it stated in the state of site report that cults are banned from closed normal games? Sure there could be an SK, but I'm looking towards this being more assumption than slip. Since I've never watched DBZ (gasp), can you show me one scenario where a cult or SK is applicable in this theme game?

On Ghostlin's part however, there was the fact that he mentioned that both scum would need to jump for the lynch thus outing them but a) (alady stated) quickhammer gains automatic suspicion, so scum dont do it this early in the game, thats dumb. b) the statement itself discounts the fact scum could already be on the wagon itself, so the assumption is there again. In my opinion, thats more suspicious than the other so called slip. Also there is this whole "I dont like reaction tests spiel" when a) he says its town, again discounting the fact that scum could reaction test to get town cred and b) puts a vote on pope which in itslf can be seen as a test to see if scum would jump on it. So yeah, contradictory statements arent looking good to me.

Anyway thats what I think of the issue, if anything Pope seems more like he's avoiding pressure when it was made clear that the pressure was no longer random, so if I had to pick with the two, I'd say pope is scummier, but my mind can easily change. No point in putting him at L-1 this early

[DoctorPepper]

Seeing as barely anyone else has posted on the happenings, what does everyone else think?

[DoctorPepper]

Never been in a chk game or a micro fornthat matter so I dont know what to expect

[DoctorPepper]

Btw I think we're done on the cult issue, that was dumb. A better rebuttal for that would have been there could have been 3 scum, not 2. Pimhel already saidnthis, ao yeah. So PimHel, any explanation to that vote?

Hamlet, whomis scummier from the two? Or are you willing to say that they could just both be town

[DoctorPepper]

Hmm, I wonder why people always think my posts seem fake, cause Thats how I really felt about the issue. So can you explain why that is, so I can see it? Besides, at this early stage, I can't really be suspicious of anyone too much just by basing it on that exchange, it has only been 2 days irl.

[DoctorPepper]

Incase I have my vote on

UNVOTE

That was RVS

Im not sure I like ffery's idea of using meta to get a read cause yes, Ghostlin may seem town for that statement cause he did it somewhere else, but players can just pick up on those things that people call them town for and just apply it for all the games they play in, so I dont think its completely reliable.

Hamlet, why does it look town v town to you?

Pope, gimme a moment, let me reread and analyze

[DoctorPepper]

Ghostlin, isnt the fact that reaction tests are town tells to a lot of players (including you) incentive enough to go with them even if it means sticking your head out as scum?

Pope, instead of clamoring for people to give their reads, you could give yours too and everyone could follow.

Hmm, sword has been quiet lately.

Anyway Im not sure I like either Ghostlin OR TheIrishPope, they both seem scummy to me. Ghostlin's whole "dont vote or you are maf" thing seems like scum trying to look town because said posts were completely unnecessary, I doubt that this wagon would push through anyway without substantial evidence of him beine scum at page 5. S yeah, his posts just "seem town" to me. While people say they like Pope's later posts, I do not agree with his reasons for thinking Ghost is scum. 1) assumptions arent a scum tell, 2) you dont need people to ask you about yourbstance on anyting in this game. However I do agree about Ghostlin's iso 5, I think everyone in this game already stated how its wrong. Anyway, Indont thinknit could be a bus, but Im not sure what to think.

Pope's whole answer to the fishy =/= suspicion doesnt make sense though. If you have suspicion, shouldnt you vote that person, if you find them scummy? Cause if youre not suspicious of them being scum, what exactly are you suspicious of them for?

Bacde, to me, he's trying to hard to prove he's town by saying stuff like

tryst me when I say I wear my alignment on my sleeve and its easy to tell

By this logic, are you saying that it should be obvious that you are scum if you were? No certainties in this game.

So those are my three scum reads, I guess that puts everyone else as null or town, and since newearth is VLA and sword barely posted, they are null to me.

Ffery reads town to me cause of her early questioning and her early otuting of her reads, like she's shown an interest to scumhunt and not just sit back and watch the flamewar between the nonslip.
PimHel reads town for his vote on me cause yes, scum like to post like they seem town. Basically I think he's reading into it wrong but I think his methods are townie, looking for people who he thinks are posting but not helping
Hamlet is null leaning town. Null cause only his last 3 posts were relevant to game discussion imo. But he leans town for actually questioning both people not just tunneling on one person,

In short, my town reads lie on one principle, they actually try to move on past the whole slip/not slip thing and try to get scum hunting moving, thats why they read town to me.

[DoctorPepper]

Well putting a vote on them does help dissuade or further that suspicion based on their reactions anyway, so..

[DoctorPepper]

Well since I haven't voted, I guess I cant call you out on that.

[DoctorPepper]

Ghostlin, isnt it hypocritical on your part to say that my assumptions are a "poison pill pf wifom" when the very explanation of "scum dont do that, it reveals them" is in itself a wifom filled statement? Were just going around in circles and its not helping, so lets just cutnthat issue short cause both of us had wifom-my assumptions there

[DoctorPepper]

PimHel, cant talk about an ongoing game.

By town ad no longer tentative, you are sure he is town because he voted sword?

[DoctorPepper]

I dont get why, he voted for someone who isnt here at all, what does that do? Pressure? How does voting for someone who hasnt said anything solve anything? (if we believe his excuse of being busy and accept his post of "will catch up and post tomorrow")

[DoctorPepper]

I think we as town need to distinguish scum play and shit town play, cause really TIP voting Ghost based on set up speculations was bad but its not scummy. Answering with "there might be a cult" is a stupid answer but not a scummy answer. There are scummy things in his posts like reactions to suspicion, which havent gone away even if he has posted positively (according to some of you) later om.

[DoctorPepper]

@Hamlet. Its more of me just saying if you think someone is suspicious, vote for them. Because if you arent suspicious of them being scummy, what exactly are you suspicious of them for? Admittedly, I am in no position to say this because I myself havent voted for people I find suspicious, but well thats me, I'm a cautious voter.

@Pim Its not really more of an attack to Pope as it was to both of them making cases against each other based on things which arent necessarily scummy to begin with. Take pope's stance on why ghost is scum. Like making assumptions, and stating your stance on something like reaction tests arent really scummy to begin with. Or that the discussion of a cult that happened between them when it is known that cults are banned in closed normal. So what O think stands between them? 1) hypocritical posts like when Ghost accuses me of using WIFOM as an argument when a) his post was full of WIFOM to begin with and b) he answers with more WIFOM 2) banking on scum slips. Yeah, in my games, I've seen more scummy people accuse other people of scum slips, so its more of a gut feel when someone banks on slips. 3) posts which are just there to get town cred like "dont vote this man at L-2 or you're scum" and calling for everyone's reads and threatening to see them as scum when that person himself has not given out reads. So the term "shit play" might have been to harsh, but a lot of the things they accuse each other of aren't really scummy.

I'm seeing dissonance when it comes to Fuzzy and Bel's posts. Bel asks me whats wrong with being suspicious but when Fuzzy asks sword, "if he finds people scummy, why dont you vote for them?" So correct me if I'm wrong there.

Pope, PimHel also voted for you and jumped the potential bw, why is Ghost scummier?


As for my answer to sword.
1) that post was an answer to Ghost asking us to comment on his argument with Pope. Hmm, Indid mention the possibility of a town v town in another post I think (not sure). 1) how is it that I already have in mind that one of them will be lynched when I havent voted for either of them. So theyre saying one of the other is scum, I don't see anything wrong with me looking at who is scummier from either of them.
2) I think we're out of RVS when someone makes a serious vote, me and Ghost asked about it and he confirmed, so yeah there. Also I was talking about the filler of a) asking the mod non game related questions when we are out of pre game and b) "d-d-d-d-d-double post"
3) i read TNE as null because there was little contribution, cquse of V/LA. So the fillers came in pre game. And she also is suspicious of Ghostlin.
4) if you think my case against Ghostlin is stronger, it doesnt automatically mean I should too.
5) i've made more posts, not just 112. Inthink like a few posts later I gave my reads too.
6) the weirdest thing I've seen from your post is the fact that you vote for me cause I assume that one is scum, where as PimHel voted fo me cause "he doesnt get the feeling that I am suspicious of either player" so major dissonance on the wagon on me there. You say his 132 mirrors your post, but you two have completely different reasons. Uhm, lolwhutt?

[DoctorPepper]

Now where the hell did I use "shitty play" for reasons I found them scummy? I said we should distinguish scummy plays from bad town plays. Thanks for the misrep right there. And how is it a weak push on Hamlet? No, your posts were not in sync, thats why I said that. How exactly are those things scummy? Are you willing to explain or are you just saying "this is scummy cause I dont agree with it"

[DoctorPepper]

@Pope, Ffery and Ghostlin
What do you guys think of Dr. P?

ISO #12: Asks for my reads instead of providing his right away. Then he says this:

Bacde, to me, he's trying to hard to prove he's town by saying stuff like

tryst me when I say I wear my alignment on my sleeve and its easy to tell

And then does the exact same thing in ISO #18.
ISO #18: "We as town" seems forced. Also, the whole post reeks of WIFOM, which doesn't help at all.
I should stick to my word.
VOTE: DoctorPepper

Hmm, I asked for your reads ISO 12, cause before that you were clamoring for everyone to give you reads when you yourself have not done so. Now how is that less scummy than me asking you for reads, then giving them in the same post?

Hmm, I dont even think youre trying to get the point of what I said on ISO 18, I was asking for this whole stoppage for the pointless arguments you two have been having based on non scummy behavior. So I was calling for everyone to stop making shit cases, hence "we as town"

This is weird, I had a town read from you because I provided my reads, then all of a sudden I am scummy? Coincidentally this came when I called your cases against each other not scummy cases and when I held suspicion against you.

So I'm willing to think there is at least 1 scum on my wagon and PimHel reads town, meh on sword. But you, with your hypocritical play and misrepping?

VOTE: TIP

[DoctorPepper]

Pope, I state my reasons for that vote. Besides I have you as a scum read. Did you seriously ISO me or did you just jump at the chance at a BW?

[DoctorPepper]

TIP, when the fuck did I call you town? Did you really ISO me?

[DoctorPepper]

Stop avoiding my questions. The simple fact that you need to ask that already indicates that you really didnt ISO me. I've already said in that same post ISO 12 where you said I didnt give my reads, I found you, Bacde and Ghostlin scummy. And I've explained I'm a cautios voter.

[DoctorPepper]

Pope I cant even begin to explain how hypocritical you are being right now. You ask for everyone's reads then only give yours when I ask for it. I on the other hand ask for reads and give mine, in the same post. SMH

[DoctorPepper]

Well, I did ISO you. Town would say their reads and then ask for someone else's. You on the other hand...
And OMGUS is super cautious according to you. Nice.

I don't see what's wrong with asking for reads but abstaining from giving mine. I have the right to remain silent

What the fuck?

[DoctorPepper]

Hamlet, never played with Hydras before, so I was wondering why was there an internal shaft or something

[DoctorPepper]

Pope, I think we've explained why we're voting for you, like dude your arguments for me being scum are the same things you are doing, and some of it was just plain false

[DoctorPepper]

I think Im at L-1 now.

PimHel, why wouldnt scum vote Bacde? Because OMGUS, and thats obvious

Now let me break down your case once again.
1. What exactly is wrong with me answering to their "everone comment on this situation" I found both of them scummy, why exactly is it wrong to say which one I think is scummier. Its not scumhunting? When I try to see who s scummier? Its fake? How can you say? How is it fake?
2. Thats my playstyle, I dont vote unless I find a good reason to do so. Look at my past games (if you can) and everyone accuses me of this, I dont vote early on until I am sure or at least until it is needed.
3. Post three was about Pope too. Thank you for the misrep. Again dont tell me what to think, I trust my gut when I say he feels scummier, JUST BECAUSE YOU FUCKING SAY SO, DOESNT MEAN I SHOULD TOO. When the fuck did I accuse Ghostlin of slipping?
4. My jab against Hamlet and his attackers was done not because of what you said. You say a lot about how what Im saying is to downplay your cases, whereas what you say justifies those little points you've made against me as "scum" Cqn you not tell me and these other people what my motives are mr. All knowing Pim. Will you stop misrepping me? Will you stop determining what my motives are for me?
5. Claiming for everyone's reads while not supplying your own, and other things he has done is not a weak attack.

Yes, I am pissed, I'm pissed off at this constant misrep, I'm sick of being accused of fake scumhunting and my posts being fake when I am at least trying to make it. God dammit I have never been so pissed in a game before.

@Mod: Requesting Replacement

Fuck this

[DoctorPepper]

You, sword, ffery and Pim. L-1.

Breaking all the rules? What did I break.

Okay, last post

[DoctorPepper]

No I am not having fun okay, i am defending and I have been since the first suspicion but my defense has been called as "weak attempts to remove a bandwagon" im sick of shit like "fake scumhunting" "your motives are fake" FUCK OFF.
No pope, this specific game is not for me, I've had fun in all my games except this. That is not a rule, in fact Im doing a favor by not flaking out and immediately doing this.

[DoctorPepper]

Yes, maybe im not ready for games out of the Newbie queue. Thats why I am replacing out. Bbye and Good luck

[DoctorPepper]

Glad to see that you guys eventually won. I am going to say this.

Im sorry for the way I acted when I asked to be replaced. Part of it was RL stress and it was a snap decision which I would eventually regret. It wasnt fair cause what bungles said is right, it really does take away the scumhunting if a player ragequits because it confirms them in a way. I did take offense to everyone saying I was "fakehunting" when I actually was trying to hunt, but thats not a good reason to replace out if pressure really is a natural part of this game. And if I ever snap like this again and flake, I wouldnt really be someone people want to be in a game with. So to everyone, sorry for the whole freak out, hope that none of you have sworn off being in a game with me for that incident alone.