MICRO 172: DRAGON BALL Z [TOWN WIN]

[PimHel]

/confirm

[PimHel]

Well, I love DBZ~ It is one of the series that I watched last year again (after watching DB for the first time)
So I'm happy that I could replace in.

[PimHel]

Vote DoctorPepper

He has the D from Dodoria, one of the most useless evil characters in DBZ.

[PimHel]

Hmmm... Bacde is pretty fishy, but whatevs.
VOTE: sword_of_omens
For criticizing our awesomeness

Unvote; Vote:Pope

Someone's fishy yet you random voted?

Also, I'm ashamed. We're playing a DBZ game and I'm the only one using a DBZ reason to vote >.<?
P.S. I actually like Dodoria. Pink Alien FTW~

[PimHel]

Hamlet, you should soliloquize some more.

That would antagonise PimHel, and I haven't decided if I want to do that or not yet.

--B

Don't use difficult words >.<

[PimHel]

First of, I also thought that it's very likely that there are 2 scum.
But that's not the important bit. The important bit,@Pope, is that you brought up that Ghostlin ' slipped'. Then when Ghostlin said that in most 9p games there are 2 scum, you reply that there could be a SK or cult. However, this has nothing to do with the ' slip'. This is just bad.

However, I see what you're doing. We need some DBZ fans in here >.<

Unvote

Vote Dr. P

[PimHel]

I voted you, because your big post seems fake. I don't get the feeling that you are actually suspicious of either of them when I read your post.

[PimHel]

@DR P
Can you link me to some games where players called your posts fake?

@TheNE
Why did you vote Ghostlin?

More will follow after the answers.

[PimHel]

@TheNE can you look back which post it was that started your suspicions?

@Dr. P
Can you tell me which arguments keep standing against Pope and Ghostlin after you leave everything out that you could see as ' shitty play'?

@hamlet
Where's Fuzzy?

@Ffery
I don't see the change in tone from Omens. Could you give more input on this?
And I need some input from Bacde about this as well.

[PimHel]

I like Omens' posts.
@Pope, Ffery and Ghostlin
What do you guys think of Dr. P?

@Dr. P
My point actually was that in your first big post and a little one afterwards, you also used ' shitty play' for reasons why Pope/ Ghostlin are scummy. It's weird that you want them to ignore the ' shitty plays' .
Furthermore, the weak pushes against Hamlet are bad.

@Hamlet. Its more of me just saying if you think someone is suspicious, vote for them. Because if you arent suspicious of them being scummy, what exactly are you suspicious of them for? Admittedly, I am in no position to say this because I myself havent voted for people I find suspicious, but well thats me, I'm a cautious voter.

I'm seeing dissonance when it comes to Fuzzy and Bel's posts. Bel asks me whats wrong with being suspicious but when Fuzzy asks sword, "if he finds people scummy, why dont you vote for them?" So correct me if I'm wrong there.

And this is scummy as well. It's a weak jab to discredit our arguments:

6) the weirdest thing I've seen from your post is the fact that you vote for me cause I assume that one is scum, where as PimHel voted fo me cause "he doesnt get the feeling that I am suspicious of either player" so major dissonance on the wagon on me there. You say his 132 mirrors your post, but you two have completely different reasons. Uhm, lolwhutt?

He mentioned my point as well, only worded it differently:

his take on the case is : “Which of the two are scummier?”
As if he already has it in his mind that he will be backing a lynch for either of the two (probably whichever one is more optimistic for him)

[PimHel]

This is a bad wagon. I'll get to it tomorrow why Dr P is a better option.

[PimHel]

Everyone should read Pope's ISO. He has dropped some scummy things, but overall, I have the feeling that he's trying to look for scum.
Just look at the explanations he has given for not voting Bacde at the start of the game (waiting for every player to post), just look at how he's grilling Ghostlin (though bad (as in bad, not scummy) arguments) and how he has been grilling Dr P lately.
I want players who find Pope scummy to explain why scum-Pope wouldn't vote Bacde.
I also want those players to look at the time when Pope asked for the reads from multiple players. He and Ghostlin were the ones who were attacking the most. By asking for other players their read, he gets other players to take a stance and get some information out of them. This weighs much more than what you find hypocritical (did I spell it right :S?) about him. Or look at his explanation about it.


Start looking at the big picture.

[PimHel]

About Dr P.
First look at post 112. Feel the tone of that post. It screams 'I am posting what I see'. That's not scumhunting. This is being a bystander and it's fake.
This continues in later posts. It changes after Pope attacks Dr P.
I also find it 'hilarious' that Dr P attacks Pope for not voting his top suspicion ('If you have suspicion, shouldnt you vote that person'), while he did the same.

Then comes the post about not looking at shitty play. From that huge post (112), only 3 points remained found here Point 1 isn't about Pope. Point 2 is, but guess what, Dr P accused Ghostlin of a slip as well. And 3 didn't happen yet before post 112 (In Pope's case). So when Sword mentioned that Dr P should have been on Ghostlin, he was correct. Because Points 1 and 3 were present for Ghostlin.
Again, fake scumhunting.

Last point, again post 186.
Weak jabs against Hamlet, but also on his attackers. The first is to see if he can gain support to go after Hamlet. The second is to discredit his attackers and to let the case look weak.

P.S. 210 shows a weak attack on Pope. Dr P mentioned that in the same post he asked for Pope's reads that he mentioned the players he thought are scummy. Yet, Pope mentioned later that Ghostlin was his only scumread, which was known. So Dr P can't call him hypocritical.

[PimHel]

It's posted, Ffery

[PimHel]

So basically, Dr P didn't refute anything. I explained why his reads were fake at the start of the game. I didn't attack him for not voting. I attacked him for using that against another player. As said about 3, that point against Pope hadn't happened yet. And 5 was actually about that Dr P is scummy for saying Pope is scummy for not giving reads when he asked others to do so.
Vegito, you're scum. But the good news is that I want to lynch one of your suspicions (A) (You were suspicious of yourself XD)

@Ffery
I disagree with you about Jiffy sharing your reads = Jiffy-town.
Hamlet and theNE have posted very little. And Pope is the easy target this game.
If you don't believe me that it's easy to get this list, then you should ask other players where they stand with Hamlet, theNE and Pope.

[PimHel]

Vegito, you're scum.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you there.

You should vote Pope.

No. I can see Pope's actions coming from town. Dr P has done the actions coming from a scum mindset.

@Ghostlin
Seriously? You accuse Pope of AtE. Yet Dr P's whole big 'replace me' screamed AtE. And nowhere, were you to point that out. What is your opinion of Dr P?

[PimHel]

V/LA till monday

I might be able to post tomorrow morning and perhaps sometimes when I'm away, but I can't promise anything.

[PimHel]

Back, though this game has to wait for a few hours.

[PimHel]

well, I'm reading this game now, so soon enough it will change.

[PimHel]

@Vegito (Post 347)
About your case against Pope, I can agree with #84 as it’s a bad way to keep his vote. But all the other stuff you have mentioned, I don’t see as scummy.
Not voting Bacde at the start of the game is a good starting vote, but that’s it. His vote against Ghostlin was bad, not scummy. Posts 158 and 161 are explanations why he didn’t vote Bacde. #213 isn’t bad as he only had 2 reads at the time. 228 and 343 aren’t things I find scummy. And 332 doesn’t say anything about his allignment.
And in case you want to know, Dr P weighs heavily against you, but I am going to look at you as well.

@Hamlet (Post 361)
The same for you as for Ffery earlier, that you agree with Majiffy doesn’t make him town. See that post for details.
Also, since when are you suspicious of Pope and why?

@Pope (Post 366)
This needs an explanation. Why say that if he stops tunneling you might see him as town? You think he’s scum, yet you give him a reason how he can make you unvote him? That doesn’t make sense.

@Pope (Post 402)
If my read on you changes, I’ll vote you for this post. It’s awful.

@Pope (Post 407)
What reasons :S? Nacho mentioned that he meta’d TheNE. So what do you like about his reasons?

@Pope (Post 414)
No, just no ._. You mentioned on the same page the part about Ghostlin’s reaction to the possible vengeful townie and now you’re wondering why Bacde mentioned Ghostlin?

@Ghostlin (Post 417)
Wait, what? In Pope’s so-called AtE moment, he was telling TheNE to vote him or not without waiting for the VC. How did this have the effect of nobody voting him?
Also, show me why you thought Dr P is a newbie.

@Ffery (Post 433)
What’s Nacho’s tell?

@Vegito (Post 468)
This is bad. Bacde’s main suspicion is Ghostlin. Why wouldn’t he try to discuss why he thinks you’re wrong about your read on Ghostlin?
P.S. Bacde is right. The tone in those posts say nothing.

@Hamlet/Fuzzy (Post 478)
Didn’t you just complete a game with Jiffy scum? So you should explain the Jiffy read.

@Vegito (Post 481)
This post is awful. Bacde was talking about Ghostlin responding to the possibility of Pope being vengeful townie. That has nothing to do with why Ghostlin-scum would think that. Ghostlin could think of Pope being vengeful (not allignment indicative) and Ghostlin-scum would respond differently than Ghostlin-town.
Also, you not looking at Ghostlin anymore is bad.


@Vegito (Post 529)
1. Not every PR plays the same. Just because you think a PR would play like A, doesn’t mean when a PR plays like B, he’s faking it.
2. If he’s lying about being a Voyeur, we can easily catch him. Do you agree with this? If not, why not?

@Vegito (Post 561)
Why did you ask Ghostlin why he has a town read on you?

[PimHel]

@Ffery (Post 433)
What’s Nacho’s tell?

If I said that out loud he'd stop doing it.

So the town read comes from something else?
And I'm asking because Nacho isn't acting like the town-nacho I know.

[PimHel]

Nacho is as town very aggresive. If he finds somebody scummy, he will do anything he can to get that player lynched.
But look at his posts in this game. He only points out the things he doesn't like. He doesn't get into the arguments. He points them out and then leaves it alone. That's not town-nacho.

[PimHel]

@Nacho
Links where you were passive as town?
And no, you've been questioning Ghostlin who's around.

@Fuzzy
The one in which you got lynched as mason ._.

[PimHel]

@Pope (Post 366)
This needs an explanation. Why say that if he stops tunneling you might see him as town? You think he’s scum, yet you give him a reason how he can make you unvote him? That doesn’t make sense.

@Pope (Post 402)
If my read on you changes, I’ll vote you for this post. It’s awful.

@Pope (Post 414)
No, just no ._. You mentioned on the same page the part about Ghostlin’s reaction to the possible vengeful townie and now you’re wondering why Bacde mentioned Ghostlin?

1. If he did focus on other aspects on the game and actually scumhunt (or at least fake scum hunt) I wouldn't be suspicious of him. Of course, there's no turning back; he is scum.
2. I don't get what's awful about it.
4. I did notice Ghostlin's comment. What I meant by that post was "Is there anything else you'd like to tell me about Ghostlin?", and "Can you make a concise argument for him so I can vote him with good reason?"

1. doesn't make sense. Also, you talked about you playing in phases. Don't you agree that you've tunnelvisioned in some of these phases? Like you against Ghostlin at the start of the game and you against Vegito earlier?
2. the phases. You're basically letting loose of a player you find scummy. And also the snarky comment about tunnelvision.
4. Doesn't look the way how you mentioned it in post 414.

@Vegito (Post 468)
This is bad. Bacde’s main suspicion is Ghostlin. Why wouldn’t he try to discuss why he thinks you’re wrong about your read on Ghostlin?
P.S. Bacde is right. The tone in those posts say nothing.

Because he said he was "trying to understand" my townread on Ghostlin. He's attacking it, not "trying to understand".

I'm starting to think you're not reading very closely to this game.

This post is awful. Bacde was talking about Ghostlin responding to the possibility of Pope being vengeful townie. That has nothing to do with why Ghostlin-scum would think that. Ghostlin could think of Pope being vengeful (not allignment indicative) and Ghostlin-scum would respond differently than Ghostlin-town.
Also, you not looking at Ghostlin anymore is bad.

...

what

?
And I don't give a fuck. He's town as shit.

1. Not every PR plays the same. Just because you think a PR would play like A, doesn’t mean when a PR plays like B, he’s faking it.
2. If he’s lying about being a Voyeur, we can easily catch him. Do you agree with this? If not, why not?

But when a player is blatantly playing like a

different PR or scum

, I'm going to have to follow to it's logical conclusion of scum.
I don't care about "catching" him later when we could just as easily "lynch" him today. Dig?

And by asking questions, you can understand somebody's opinion. And that's also the point about discussing it. He disagrees with your reason why you find Ghostlin town.

1. Ghostlin reads Pope's statement about shit going down if he's put at L-1.
2. Ghostling thinks that Pope's vengeful (these two steps aren't allignment indicative)
3. Ghostlin responds (the way he responds can show hints about Ghostlin's allignment)
No, he's not. Besides, I think Pope's town. Should I also ignore him, like you do with Ghostlin? Or do you want me to continue pointing scummy posts from him?

Important question: If Pope survives till D2 and can give the result of his night action which is shown to be true, how will you think about him?

Last: @Nacho
Can you give me some links of your Calcifer games? I'd like it if you have both scum and town games.

(Will now respond to posts that don't involve answering my big post)

[PimHel]

@PIMHEL

Why is has your vote been so uselessly parked on the vegita slot all game long? Yeah so you thought DRP was scum, but what are you seeing in the replacement that has made you content with keeping your vote where it was since like 2 weeks ago?

Dr P was scummy, Jiffy is scummy. The one who is giving me doubts is Nacho.
Which is why I'm looking into Nacho now.

P.S. I want to call my cat that I'll never have Bungles now~ It's such a cute cat name.

@Bungles
Post 700 is fake.
Post 701 is interesting. You also called Pope town. Where's your analysis on that wagon?
Also, what do you think about your town reads attacking eachother? (with the exception of Ghostlin and Vegito)

Unvote; Vote Ghostlin

@Bungles
Post 720 shows you haven't been reading the game.
You're also a good vote. You first make no cases about your scum players, than you go with Ghostlin to vote somebody else with a bad case? Townhunting is only town when there's also scumhunting involved. And that's not the case with you.

##summon pimhel

First of, I also thought that it's very likely that there are 2 scum.
But that's not the important bit. The important bit,@Pope, is that you brought up that Ghostlin ' slipped'. Then when Ghostlin said that in most 9p games there are 2 scum, you reply that there could be a SK or cult. However, this has nothing to do with the ' slip'. This is just bad.

However, I see what you're doing.

We need some DBZ fans in here >.<

Unvote

Vote Dr. P

Can you explain what you meant by the bolded part?

1. Summoning works only on the dragon. You're on the wrong show.
2. No, the bolded isn't important now.

I can't take a case serious which discusses about V/LA.

[PimHel]

Unvote; Vote Ghostlin

Clarify this vote. What do you see scummy about me over Vegito or anyone else, and why would you try to build a wagon on me now?

Even better. Your reads, now.

Wow, that was easy.
The deadline hits in a good time for my timezone. I can easily change my vote if that's needed.

The scum are within you, Bungles and Vegito. Omen is null. The others are town. It's not that hard.

And no, I want to see you squirm some more.

[PimHel]

Post 701 is interesting. You also called Pope town. Where's your analysis on that wagon?

pretty much everything i've been talking about so far. pretty much all of the veg voters are voting because of drpepper reasons and are eithber providing no analysis or not near enough analysis about vegito. that wagon is where i'm currently devoting all my energy towards

Also, what do you think about your town reads attacking eachother? (with the exception of Ghostlin and Vegito)

nothing much. it happens. if anything, minor annoyance

@Bungles
Post 720 shows you haven't been reading the game.
You're also a good vote. You first make no cases about your scum players, than you go with Ghostlin to vote somebody else with a bad case? Townhunting is only town when there's also scumhunting involved. And that's not the case with you.

I can't take a case serious which discusses about V/LA.

wat? i've said plenty of stuff about people who i found scummy? did you not read the whole of my case against sword? like the entire last half of it is non VLA related. And the stuff about VLA is NOT attacking him because he goes on vla, it's about how guilty he sounds in this game compared to other games where he treats his vla adventures as no big deal.


fuck mafiascum players annoy me sometimes. the more critical thinking and reading is required to form an opinion, the more likely you guys are to ignore the entire issue

I was talking about the Pope wagon. You haven't done anything with that yet.

No, you only talked about Omen. And I discussed that part in a quote you didn't include.
V/LA is V/LA. There have been times I returned after a long abscense and I felt guilty for not mentioning it. That's what your scum quotes are showing from what I can see.
The rest of the case needs Omen's response.

[PimHel]

And no, I want to see you squirm some more.

Do you really think I have no reason?

P-edit
She's saying that there was a wagon.