Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Iecerint]

FINALLY~~!

I've wanted to play a WoT game since reading through all of Kinetic's before I'd even posted on the site.

/confirm

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Vote: Belisarius

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Milkshake, please clarify your stance on the whole Matt situation. Your iso is pretty unclear.

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Why did you want to ask Nero Cain in particular...?

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Why did you want to ask Nero Cain in particular...?

This is dumb as hell considering it was, y'know, nero cain that had his vote sitting on a townread.

Nero Cain had already clarified his standing re: MattP AFAICT.

[Iecerint]

I'm bothered by a lot of milkshake's playchoices (e.g., the stuff with Nero -- didn't seem like a natural/organic interaction to me from milk's side). Milk's explanation that he was exploring people's take on the MattP situation doesn't make sense to me because Nero is someone who had already been pretty clear. Milkscum trying to push a wagon from the sidelines accounts for this kind of stuff.

But I'm not sure enough to end the day, really, especially when some players have basically only posted to replace out. And I don't really want to prematurely invest too much energy into milk's wagon when I think milk is fairly scummy, anyway.

That said, I think Sword looks more questionable than Ghostlin, partly because I liked some of Ghostlin's post-milkwagon posts.

[Iecerint]

I think his vote was decent at the time that he made it, as it wasn't really until your posts after that that I changed my mind about you. I can also buy his "L-1 takes guts" reasoning on discounting SoO relative to you. So that particular vote doesn't really push me in either reason; at most, it's less telling than other stuff.

Like, I remember starting reading your long-post after that one with a "HMMMMMMMMMMM this looks like an awkwardly-disproportionate response..." kind of mentality going in, and I didn't change my mind until I came back a second time and read it more carefully, so Ghostlin suspicion at that time per se feels pretty nullish at worst to me.

[Iecerint]

I like Amrun's posts coming into the game; it's pretty rare that someone can pick up on things that are pretty different from what I've noticed without my finding it weird and awkward. I can see part of where someone could find Ghostlin scummy (cf., earlier posts), but I'm leaning town there. Selkies wasn't really on my radar much one way or the other. Looking over it in iso, stuff like 231 is pretty town, though. I'm not crazy about either of these options.

I'm liking either milkshake or SoO at this point for scum at this point.

Vote: SoO

[Iecerint]

@Iecerint

Why did you ignore my vote on you?

This is the sum total of everything you have written about me in this thread:

Unvote, Vote: Iecerint

I don't see anything to respond to.

[Iecerint]

Different people use their vote different ways. In your case, you spent the first part of the game rapidly voting different players. I figured there was a method to whatever you were doing.

I don't think it's productive to call attention to stuff that I don't think is alignment indicative, unless I think it's already serving as an inappropriate distraction.

[Iecerint]

BTW, I would appreciate it if you'd use an avatar. It will help me to keep track of your posts.

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I am intrigued by SoO's promises of catch-ups and regular contributions.

Please do not forget to happen.

/drunkpost

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@Iecerint - Why is your vote on me, especially after your #173? I want to know why I am suspect, considering you came back stated (#176) that my L-1 vote didn’t mean anything to you either way.

I think you have gotten some pronouns from my 176 mixed-up. My 176 is about

milk's vote for Ghostlin

; it's only about you insomuch as your vote was relevant to milk's decision to vote Ghostlin [brackets added for pronoun clarity]:

I'm bothered by a lot of milkshake's playchoices (e.g., the stuff with Nero -- didn't seem like a natural/organic interaction to me from milk's side). Milk's explanation that he was exploring people's take on the MattP situation doesn't make sense to me because Nero is someone who had already been pretty clear. Milkscum trying to push a wagon from the sidelines accounts for this kind of stuff..

While we're at it, what do you think of Milk's current vote, Ice?

I think his vote [i.e., Milk's vote for Ghostlin, not SoO's vote for Milk] was decent at the time that he [milk] made it, as it wasn't really until your [Ghostlin's] posts after that that I changed my mind about you [Ghostlin]. I can also buy his [milk's] "L-1 takes guts" reasoning on discounting SoO relative to you [Ghostlin]. So that particular vote [milk's vote for Ghostlin] doesn't really push me in either reason; at most, it's less telling than other stuff [i.e., the early stuff with Nero]

The reason I am voting you is that I was sympathetic-but-not-sold on milkwagon, I thought your votepost was probably most questionable-y given milkTown, and I wanted you to post more.

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SoO, any reason you didn't lay down a vote last time?

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Vla til late sunday

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Reading

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SoO, it looks like you were bothered by Ghostlin's indicating that you didn't vote in your post, but it didn't bother you when I basically asked you the same question (albeit in a much less inflammatory fashion)?

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SoO, it looks like you were bothered by Ghostlin's indicating that you didn't vote in your post, but it didn't bother you when I basically asked you the same question (albeit in a much less inflammatory fashion)?

Reposting this for SoO.

I am doing my best to stay reasonable up on things during the meet, but anyone who has outstanding stuff for me should probably repost. My computer is hidden away in my secret sleeping area that I never venture into.

[Iecerint]

it does, but Fake Claiming PGO as a Macho Inno. Child is Just as Odd.

I do not follow. How are these things at all similar...?

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Unvote; Vote: milkshake

This should put him back at L-1. Neither Marangal nor milkshake really have great claims, but claims like milkshakes should be lynched rather than go around and pull more claims.

ThAd would not be a terrible lynch as his softclaim has already been pulled, BUT a) I think that milkshake's lynch will be more informative and b) ThAd may have a method for his behavior if he is town.

I can understand frustration at my level of activity. Balto ends Wednesday, so it should change by D2 or so.

I will mention the deadline to MattP and Amrun.

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So, that was a complete accident. I had thought that SoO had been voting milkshake and had just unvoted her in #774, but he had been voting MsMarangal. I was in a little bit of a rush because Amrun was making crab soup things downstairs at Balto and people had told me like 3 times that I needed to get downstairs before I missed it, but I knew that deadline was super-soon.

I think milkshake was the proper lynch on the basis of the claims, anyway, though. The outrage at a hammer with like 5 hours to deadline was a little hyperbolic.

As far as stuff today goes:

What i want to know is why [ThAd] felt the need to share that part of it considering there were 2 kills last night?

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Iece, what are your reads? Your actual reads?

I think SoO, Selkies, and Demon are probably town. I don't have as much of a read on players I didn't directly interact with much yesterday because my Balto activity was pretty limited to ctrl+f iec-ing every other day or so.

I remember Ghostlin getting scrutiny for reasons that didn't make much sense to me, so that's probably what I'll look over when I get a moment. IIRC one of the main drivers of that was milkshake, though, sooooo ye know.

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I don't think you were even in the game yet during the scrutiny I'm remembering....

I actually initially had you as a 4th town in SoO/Selk/Demon, but then I reconsidered before posting it. I did kind of get townvibes from you during Balto, but I've also learned to be kind of more wary of those townvibes.

I am much more comfortable with my town reads than any scum reads this game so far. I will need to reread D1 to convert my "X event was weird" memories into reads post-flip.

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(We obviously did not discuss the game during Balto, other than that I told her and Matt about deadline after my hammervote, and Amrun showed me the milkflip on her phone at karaoke.)

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Who are you leaning scum on pre-reread, Iecerint?

I don't have scummy players in my head; I have scummy/suspicious events.

If I had players in my head pre-reread, I would have already told you about them.

[Iecerint]

At the time I judged them as highly relational-but-informative events. Depending on how everyone involved in X flipped, everyone else can be evaluated more clearly in hindsight.

An example is the Ghostlin stuff. I didn't understand the various players' strong opinions about Ghostlin. This can mean different things depending upon the alignment of Ghostlin and the various players, or it could mean that I had missed a post somewhere or whatever that would have made it clear. Another is that I remember not really grasping the impetus behind the Marangal/ThAd wagons; I remember stuff about them, but it was all after the wagons had already got going.

I don't have a strong memory of the role of every player in every event because I only had like 10 minutes with the game every few days, hence the need for a reread.

[Iecerint]

I think he claimed/crumbed something involving the dream stuff.

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I actually initially had [Amrun] as a 4th town in SoO/Selk/Demon, but then I reconsidered before posting it. I did kind of get townvibes from you during Balto, but I've also learned to be kind of more wary of those townvibes.

I guess I would say null-leaning-town.

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Lanfear spends most of AMOL in the dreamworld, but her allegiance is pretty ambiguous for most of the book. Moghedien can also enter the dream world. Probably Hessalam, too.

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OK, I've reread through page 18.

Right now I am probably most suspicious of Nero, GCBC, and maybe ThAd. I think Nero is scummy for his sidelines-y approach to most of the wagons he's pushed this game. Town can sometimes do this via consensus-seeking play among town-reads, but I don't get the sense that Nero Cain has uniformly done this with players he thinks are town. I think GCBC is scummy for a) disconnect between his voting/rhetoric/plain scum reads (e.g., voting SoO, then going into detail about AmrunScum) b) connections to Nero Cain (e.g., distancing from Nero Cain in 131 before voting SoO despite having previous suspicion of Nero Cain; Nero awkwardly calls out GCBC lurking). ThAd hasn't really done much so far, but what he's done has been background milkwagon cheerleading.

I'll read the rest tomorrow. If someone can explain the Ghostlin/Beli interaction on page 13, that would be helpful.

Spoiler:

Demon is town as of #31

Don't understand GCBC sarcasm tags 37.

Selkies is scummy in 39. I think my town read on Selkies is due to -f stuff later on IIRC, though.

Kinda surprised Demon still finds Matt scummy in #53. Just isn't the vibe I had between them.

The number of players who are parroting about MattP's VT stuff is annoying. Some of these have flipped town, though, SO.

Selkies-Demon are town at 96

Nero is rubbing me the wrong way a little (e.g., kinda Renfield-y).

~beer drinking starts hereish~

Initial milkshake wagon:

milkshake 6 (MattP, Nero Cain, Ghostlin, Demon, Selkies, SoO)

Nero Cain looks like the scum to me.

Milkshake/MM think Ghostlin is scummy.

GCBC thinks SoO is scummy despite already being suspicious of Nero Cain (?????). (131)

Nero leaves milkwagon, ThAdmiral joins it:

milkshake 6 (MattP, Ghostlin, Demon, Selkies, sword_of_omens, ThAdmiral)

Amrun thinks Ghostlin is scummy in her catchup post, especially if milkshake is town (181). I think she might change her mind about this in the future after Ghostlin's breadloaves, though.

194 makes me think Amrun is town.

ThAd is scummy in 204 (repeats old content, attacks a non-problematic milkshake vote, possibly a prod dodge or else his recent memory posts have been fluffy, etc).

Nero Cain wants to lynch Selkies with Amrun (not a crazy reason), but I don't actually remember Nero Cain thinking Selkies was scummy before this point (208).

Nero Cain highlights GCBC lurking (213).

MM/MD points out above, but then wants to vote Ghost/Demon/SoO... (215)? SoO points out the same (216).

Nero's 251 is kinda town.

ThAd posts to talk about kind of wanting to vote Nero Cain or Selkies, but he's weirdly apologetic/not sure (266).

GCBC likes his SoO vote, but then makes a post about Amrun being scum (299).

There's a big Ghostlin/Belisarius interaction on page 13. I've read it 3 times and don't understand it. I would like to because I don't really have a read on Beli. Maybe someone else can figure out what's going on.

GCBC is apparently a hydra...but the previous posts have all been from one head (???), so I guess it doesn't affect my reads (312).

MM attributes vote for Demon to HD, but IIRC the slot has thought Demon was scummy all game (318).

Stuff like Amrun's 391-392 makes her probably-town. EDIT: But all this Ghostlin-Scum stuff makes it really weird that she would be so sure that a doctor would protect Ghostlin....

OK, nevermind (cf., 409). This is that post I was remembering...

GCBC is in fantasy-world in 422. Amrun has just finished talking about all her anti-Ghostlin stuff being made-up. EDIT: OK, nevermind, I guess her earliest anti-Ghostlin stuff wasn't made-up, pre-crumbs (429).

[Iecerint]

I was at a family reunion before Balto during which I was V/LA, so my disrupted period is longer than just Balto. I am reading again from the beginning of the game.

SoO is his town self, which I'm basing mostly off of a FFVI game I played with him some time ago. It took me awhile to be sure about this because I thought there were some discrepancies in how he treated other players that could indicate irrationality, but it was all dealt with D1.

Nero stuck out from the wagon given the flips so far, and your calling him out at length in the next post and subsequently voting SoO solidified the sketchiness feelings.

My spoilered comments are intended mostly as notes to me to remind me of things that seem odd to me. They are not intended to be a rhetorical document, though they might help people to understand where I'm coming from. If you think I missed context somewhere or want clarification or whatever, please clarify/specify.

What is your read on Nero?

[Iecerint]

The foxhead medallion passively renders the user immune to direct effects of the One Power in flavor. Mat is indeed the fellow who has it during AMOL, though some other heroes get to use it, or else there ended up being 2 (can't recall). I can't think of any villains using it.

The commuter element doesn't make much sense to me, unless the commuting and awareness-of-being-targeted are separate effects (e.g., Mat has the accumulated knowledge of great generals of the past in his mind, so he's a great strategist).

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Last half of reread is being put off a bit due to [redacted]; apologies.

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OK, reading

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OK, so the rest of D1 was pretty familiar to me, and I didn't notice much that stood out to me except that Nero Cain linked milkscum -> GCBCscum in the early 20s on grounds that didn't make much sense to me somewhere in the early 20s.

Flavor brainstorm: Is there someone in the flavor who can force people to enter the dreamworld in the flesh? I think this is the only way the body would disappear ala the D2 opening flavor, but I don't remember people being pulled into the dreamworld in the flesh as a "thing." Perrin, Luc, and Gaul do it voluntarily, but that's it.

The Nero Cain-Amrun interaction totally totally throws my Nero read on its head, specifically in Amrun's 884 BUT this is messed up by Nero's response in 886, which means the dynamic was different from what I thought it was. 884/886 obviate my Amrun concerns related to this interaction.

Mara looks town to me from the circumstances of her claim today. Mara, does your PM make explicit reference to the "dangers" of the dreamworld ala Beli's claim?

SoO makes good points on Beli re: doubting fakeclaims and simultaneously doubting a Mat claim (963), especially since Beli seems to know the flavor pretty well. Beli's vig crumb claim on Demon also looks solid.

Waiting for Mara's answer before continuing....

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Nero Cain, why are you voting for Amrun?

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Wait a minute, why are we assuming that if ThAd's flavour name actually is Mat, that makes him town? What's to stop the scum from having names that are aligned with the Light in the source material? The wiki specifically cautions against this.

Are you saying that you have been thinking leads-as-scum this entire game, or is that a possibility that just occurred to you?

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I understand that -- I am asking when that particular possibility dawned on you.

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HMMMMMMMMM

VOTE: Amrun

This is mainly sheeping Nero, but it's also coming off of Amrun's "I think I might know why he thinks this" post, too. I think this is consistent with Amrun perceiving that the night game may have implicated her as scum and crumbing for an alternate-history story.

This is frustrating for me because I have Nero as gutscum outside of the Nero->Amrun thing that's happened today BUT what'd'ya do...

[Iecerint]

I was ALARMED by this because he concluded SK. In my mind, seeing someone visit someone dead and concluding SK was like WUT. I was really confused, because my gut reaction was to say only scum would do this, but I wasn't sure my gut reaction made sense, especially since it wasn't confirmed that's why he thought it.

Yes, this also crossed my mind. But, I don't think this weirdness from him makes you town, and given maybe-investigative crumbs from Nero, I don't think lynching him first makes sense, so.

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Yes, my point was that I would've thought that you were different-scum if he flipped investiscum.

By maybe-investigative crumbs, I'm just referring to his dayplay today that we both noticed.

The fact that you have half-claimed investigative does make things more complex.

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Above I'm lumping SK into different-scum.

My guess from flavor would be Forsaken/Dark One are one scum team, and Mordeth/Padan Fain/Ordeith/Shaisam/whatevernamehewantstouse as a 3rd party.

Pedit: Just read Nero's D2 posts.

[Iecerint]

Regarding the Ghostlin kill flavor, I think the body totally disappearing like that AND Tel'aran'rhiod being implicated implies that someone was killed by being forced to enter the dreamworld in the flesh involuntarily. This would mean that instead of just dreaming in the dreamworld, you physically enter the dreamworld with your body.

But I can't really think of any people who do this in the flavor. The only people who enter the dreamworld in the flesh in the flavor at all are Perrin, Gaul, and Luc/Isam/Slayer/whichevername, and they all do it voluntarily, and the only scumrole in that set is Slayer (non-channeller allied with the Shadow who serves as Perrin's personal antagonist), and I don't think Slayer has the ability to force others to enter the dream in the flesh.

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Yeah, but there's no point of investiscum if it's not two scum teams.

Well, presuming Nerotracker, scum can use it to either find the SK or to find PRs/get nightgame info.

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Which stands to reason...

Mara, did either of the other players in the QT indicate that they had entered the dreamworld unexpectedly?

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I'd assumed he had just demured.

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What the fuck is this shit about me crumbing. Not an investigation role.

You went after Amrun hard at the start of D2 despite taking a very different approach D1. You implied that you thought that she was the SK per se in multiple posts.

[Iecerint]

My 900 is just my reread from the first half of the game. 995 is where I finish the rest of it.

But initially in 995 I did kind of write off the Amrun stuff when Nero didn't push when she crumbed "knowing" why he thought she was scum. At the time, I thought Nero not responding meant I had made things up in my head about the whole thing. IIRC Amrun also says something about "have you been reading carefully" in that post, implying that whatever she was thinking of wasn't night-game-related. But then I reconsidered when I came back to think about it and decided that that level of salience from Amrun was kind of weird, and then I decided that it was a scummy kind of weird.

[Iecerint]

After this morning's discussion, we've changed our mind about Amrun. The possibility of L-3 still seems a weak reason to trot out a fake claim. Town players claim early in order to shed light on the game. Scum claiming at L-4 just doesn't make sense to me. Especially experienced scum.

Are you referring to her softclaim about "knowing why Nero thinks that," or to her "some kind of cop" claim?

[Iecerint]

To me, given what Mara has said about the night-talk situation and what various players have said about the dangers of the dreamworld, the fact that the other dreamwalker hasn't yet gone into a 1/1 with Mara (i.e., and has instead remained anonymous) suggests that Mara is probably town.

[Iecerint]

To me, given what Mara has said about the night-talk situation and what various players have said about the dangers of the dreamworld, the fact that the other dreamwalker hasn't yet gone into a 1/1 with Mara (i.e., and has instead remained anonymous) suggests that Mara is probably town.

What gives you the impression that there are only two, it not just one, or that Mara isn't lying about the whole thing and there are none?

I think "claim 3 when there were only 2 so that the lack of CC confirms me as a result" is on the more complex side of things I have seen scum make up about a game, especially early on when there are lots of players and lots of opportunities for it to catch them by endgame. It's not impossible, but it's far on the unlikely side.

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I know what he's talking about. I just don't know why he's saying, "If Marangal is telling the truth about her role, it suggests she's town." A derp. If you're telling the truth you're town... What a revelation!

It's about the

kind

of claim she made.

MaraScum could have left dreamwalking out of her claim, or she could have simply claimed to have dreamwalked with Ghostlin, and either of those claims would have been fine. Adding to the claim a 3rd dreamwalker, who is really only implicated in Ghostlin's death by inferences from the dreamwalk PM flavor, just opens MaraScum up to be CC'd by town who refuse to have dreamwalked (presuming that 2 scum weren't simultaneously in the dreamworld -- but that in case MaraScum is setting up her ally, and the 3rd person is still scum).

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V/LA through next Thursday due to yet-another trip. I should be able to post at night.

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Demon and ThAd would be OK lynches. ThAd was pretty scummy re: single-mindedness on the milkshake stuff D1. The main thing he's got going for him from my POV is that Mat is a pretty popular character in the fandom, so, to the extent that that modulates anything, I think it makes Mat more likely to be town. But we've already seen tertiary characters like Birgitte and Siuan Sanche flip, so my sense of what would "normally" be expected is probably not correct. It also weirds me out that GCBC wants to lynch ThAd, but then made that post about Demon a moment ago. So that stuff makes me more comfortable with lynching ThAd of these 3.

Unvote; Vote: ThAdmiral

Demon I thought was town D1 but his play D2 has kinda shaken my faith. I also really don't like the his vig claim + softclaim. Preferable to NL, but not to ThAd.

MsM I think really shouldn't be lynched.

[Iecerint]

Mara, can you spell out the Demon stuff for me?

I actually thought he was pretty town D1, but it seems like you've read him as scum all game.

[Iecerint]

He was only on the defensive

The thing is, I think he was actually kind of aggressive at times D1, albeit never in a way that was very convincing to others (e.g., voting players rapidly, following-up on his votes at times).

But I do think it's changed today; now his behavior is reactionary.

[Iecerint]

The pattern of claims so far (GCBC null result on Selkies; MM protects deadAmrun) + likely mylo make me think a massclaim is what needs to happen.

I also like Demon going first. I'll take Selkies' advice.

VOTE: Demon

[Iecerint]

Meh, fine. But Demon had better have a good reason.

I am Moiraine Damodred, Town Channeler 1-shot Motivator

My motivator ability is called Aes Sedai Wisdom. It is a day action. The target is told that they will get a second action during the following night. Flavor says that I lost most ability with the OP during my capture, but others finally listen to me. The motivator 1-shot is NOT One Power, which I had forgotten about until re-checking my PM. My channeler ability says that stuff is OP unless they contradict it (but it doesn't apply to anything).

I targeted Amrun N2 during the first 24 hours of N2 "night" after ThAd flipped. I thought it would be fine because the Doctor would die first. N1 I had thought about targeting Selkies, but I had forgotten that it was a day action at that time, and I missed the 24 hour "twilight" window during Balto.

The fact that I am Moiraine is part of why I disbelieved milkshake's Siuan claim. The characters serve a similar function in the books, except that Siuan is tertiary or quarternary and Moiraine is secondary. I thought it was slightly goofy that they would both be included. I mention the claim (non-specifically) as part of the basis of my vote in both my vote post and in my first post of D2.

I think just Nero and Demon remain. Or if Beli still needs to full-claim, I guess.

[Iecerint]

I know how the inventor role works, but I still don't see it's connection with a'Dam

I think Elayne makes an a'dam and uses it on Moghedien when they capture her early on in the series, maybe? I know for sure that she spends a long time studying one that they get from the Seanchan.

[Iecerint]

So, go crazy with the flavor and tell me if an a'Dan redirect could change the target of rand al'thor's role block.

One point is that a'dams are gender-specific. There are some a'dams that only work on females, and some that can only work on males, and be used by males/females.

So if your a'dam only worked on female channelers, it could be that it would not work on Rand, since he does not use the female half of the OP.

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Demon needs to finish his flavor claiming ASAP.

Flavor elaboration: an a'dam is a collar that is worn around a channeler's neck that's connected to a bracelet. It gives the bracelet-user total control over the necklace-wearer. They're used to chain/enslave female channelers in Seanchan.

[Iecerint]

It would be weird if the gendered functions of the a'dam came into play without a cautionary note of any sort in the description.

SoO may want to weigh-in on this, though, since he's the one who made it.

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And yeah, OP is one power = how people use magic = the mechanism of lots of abilities in this game.

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What is missing from demon's flavor claim?

I missed his "Warp Reality" and "Overpower" claims.

Neither of these really map onto anything in the book AFAICR. Closest is that Rand can spontaneously make things happen without the OP in the epilogue, which is kinda like Warp Reality, though that kind of verbiage isn't standard in the diction. No idea of Overpower either way.

[Iecerint]

Re-a'dams, my thinking was that this was flavor that might motivate a mod claim that flavor would be used to determine how the a'dam works.

K, quadruple post over.

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@Selkies - I think that Demon is town IFF he took the action he has claimed. This is because scum blocking GCBC last night doesn't really make much sense with a claimed doc and a claimed cop AFAICT.

I hate his claim, though. Really scummy circumstances. I could see a Demon/GCBC/Nero team based on today's events (i.e., Demon claimed after everyone but Nero, Nero already has connections to GCBC, GCBC originated the "null result" claim). But IIRC GCBC pushed Demon yesterday in the 3-way vote, so I need to think more about this.

I've played with Nero lots and don't get the same "this is townNero" from his play that you seem to have gotten, but you seem pretty set on it.

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My N1 action was to dreamwalk

and before i stopped caring about the game I thought scum sent someone to dreamwalk that night to keep track of who has/doesn't have dreamwalk anymore.

Why didn't you claim this yesterday when Mara said things about the 3rd dreamwalker and claimed to be one of the 3...?

Do you dispute anything that Mara said about the N1 dream QT?

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Nero already has connections to GCBC

what in the hell is this?

You and GCBC attacked one another and voted elsewhere at least twice D1 that I noticed during my readthrough on D2. Not enough to go on, but it's D3 now, and it's kind of been in the back of my head since that time.

@Selkies - I think that Demon is town IFF he took the action he has claimed. This is because scum blocking GCBC last night doesn't really make much sense with a claimed doc and a claimed cop AFAICT.

This is pretty dumb. If they were killing the cop why would he block it?

They would block the doc.

[Iecerint]

This is because scum blocking GCBC last night doesn't really make much sense with a claimed doc and a claimed cop AFAICT.

Uh, there's no claimed cop. GCBC claimed watcher. Where did you get a copclaim from?

Amrun was a cop, and she claimed cop D2 (because she thought Nero had tracked her to MattP N1).

[Iecerint]

Demon

– Rand Al’Thor – Roleblocker, 1 shot Dreamwalk, 1 shot Lightning Rod
Night 1 – Dreamwalked (with Mara and Ghost, but kept silent)

Wait wait wait this is inconsistent with what Mara said about N1 on D2 IIRC.

Mara said that the 3rd person was trying to determine their identities or something.

Or do you just mean that he kept silent until D3?

[Iecerint]

I'm pretty confident that Nero and Demon are scum at this point due to the timing of Demon's claim (i.e., after lots of players, but not after Nero) and the more recent revelations.

Also, I checked over D2, and I don't think a player with Nero's claimed role would say something like this D2 after the ThAd/Mara claims, even with the /outguess Nero has intimated he thought might have been in play:

yep. I don't really like the THAD or Mara lynches.

[Iecerint]

ThAd had claimed commuter, Mara had claimed doctor.

I can kind-of imagine a hypothetical player who was a bodyguard-doctor thinking "aha" when they see a doctor-doctor claim, but not when a commuter has ALSO claimed. You'd have been evaluating them to see which was scum with an extra-critical eye, not blithely not liking their lynches.

[Iecerint]

Because you're scum, and probably not with Mara?

ThAd's flip wouldn't have provided you any additional information if you already thought all three of you were plausibly town.

[Iecerint]

Deadline is next Monday.

[Iecerint]

Red sister, Yellow sister, and Blue (me) sister

???

Aviendha (Ghostlin, who died N1) isn't a sister at all (she's an Aiel Wise One/Maiden of the Spear -- she's from a different culture that also channels), and Nynaeve (Mara's claim) is a Yellow sister, not a Blue one. Siuan Sanche (milkshake) and Moiraine (me) are both Blues, and Elayne is a Green. No players in this game have claimed a Red sister, though it's true that there are indeed Red sisters in the game. (Aes Sedai are called "sisters.")

Unvote

EmpKing, please verify or contradict this sisterliness from the QT.

[Iecerint]

Typo -- meant to say Red sisters in the flavor (i.e., Red is a color of an Ajah).

Colors are Red (police force, but focus on neutering men), Blue (save-the-world activists, but derided as meddling), Green (they kill monsters, but they are derided as overtly sexual), Yellow (they just heal and that is OK), White (they do logic and nothing amounts to it), Brown (they do history and sometimes find old artifacts), and Grey (they mediate and come to specialize in gateways). And also Black, but Black sisters also nominally belong to another group.

[Iecerint]

Well, I didn't take any action last night, not even an action at Nero, so I don't see any shenanigans that could have led GCBC to get that kind of result on me.

VOTE: GCBC

[Iecerint]

Bussing me was actually kind of not a great move. We could have just implicated any player and won a day earlier. As it is, we were fortunate that EmpKing didn't roleblock.

But it worked out!

[Iecerint]

Oh, they'd wanted to lynch me since D1.

I was pretty impressed that Mara lasted so long under suspicion, too.